Beneath the still surface of the apparently secure nomination of John McCain as the Republican candidate, supporters of Ron Paul are still fighting the system and doing what they can to influence the process. It appears to be an uphill battle, with many of their efforts devolving into little more than delaying tactics and spreading chaos, and in many cases generating a hostile backlash from the party establishment which is harming efforts to move the party in a more pro-liberty direction.
As GOP conventions are held in state after state, the tactics of the Paul supporters have become clear enough to be predictable and for entrenched party forces to counter them. The basic procedure is to try to take over the convention from the floor with the objective of forcing a vote to throw out any results from committees which did work in advance, kick out the sitting leadership and install new leaders and handle delegate nominations and platform resolutions from the floor. Using Roberts Rules of Order as their shield, the Ron Paul forces introduce motions from the floor and demand counted votes when voice votes don't immediately go their way. If they manage to win the first few procedural votes they attempt to use the momentum to force votes on convention rules and throwing out convention executives and starting things over from scratch. If their votes fail, they begin introducing more and more procedural motions in hopes of disrupting the convention and creating so much chaos that nothing gets done, a tactic which angers a lot of people who might otherwise support them.
Since the Paul delegates are usually numerous, but still a minority, they count on some mainstream delegates voting with them in sympathy. With many Republicans leaning towards libertarian principles this was a good strategy, but as their tactics have become more disruptive and hostility towards them spreads they are having a harder and harder time winning over those who might normally have been sympathetic. Republican moderates who are also dissatisfied with the stranglehold of the religious right on the party find themselves having to choose between the extremist devil they know and the extremist devil they're meeting for the first time, and the attraction of the pro-liberty reforms offered by the Paul movement is increasingly being outweighed by some of their more unpalatable ideas and their disruptive methods.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Sheila
Well very interesting article, like the GOP has been so wonderful and respectful of the Ron Paul Supporters, NOT. As a Ron Paul Republican, I strongly suggest that the GOP stop pretending as if they are the one's wronged here. Give us a break, why not spend the time working with your SECURED nominatee on reading the teleprompter. If only the GOP would stop allowing Karl Rove to run the party, we might have a chance of retaining the White House with a total reform of our own party. Face it, the GOP has placed our entire system of process into a world of corruption and special interest, we are not about to walk away from this process without an ETHICAL fight for what is right. Let's see how the ethics play out, McCain advisers should take note 20% of his own party don't support him.
2 - Chris H
What the GOP fails to realize is there are many Ron Paul supporters out there who are not Republicans. People like me are watching very closely and seeing what kind of party the GOP is. The way they treat our movement, will depend on if I join the party. I think Ron Paul should abandon the GOP and start a new party. Because the way it looks from here, the GOP is a party for old people that would rather go to war than be free. The internet is changing things, buckle up.
3 - Georgia Delegate
Sorry, Dave, but Ron Paul's supporters didn't 'disrupt' the Georgia Republican Convention as you state here. We were all duly elected delegates and, as such, were participating in our party's convention no differently than any other delegates.
It was not Ron Paul's supporters who claimed that McCain was like Jesus Christ, that was Georgia Republican State Chair Sue Everhart. It was not Ron Paul's supporters who refused to allow a call for 'division of the house' on a vote to approve Newt Gingrich's "American Solutions" platform, that was acting chairman Randy Evans, who was Newt's former counsel. And lastly it was the state GOP themselves who voted to change the rules on Friday afternoon without a quorum of delegates present in order to keep Ron Paul's supporters from making nominations from the floor on Saturday in opposition to the state GOP's list of nominees to the National Convention.
Because of reporting like yours the Republican establishment believes were are rogue outliers in the Party bent on causing havoc rather than genuine conservatives who are frustrated with our Party's contradictory and unprincipled leadership. The 'backlash' to which you refer here comes not because Ron Paul's supporters are wrong, but is instead a result of Republicans angry that RP supporters won't just shut up already about how far off course our Party has strayed.
Ron Paul supporters are not a nuisance, Dave Nalle, we are a reality check to a GOP establishment that seems hell-bent on shooting itself in the head. It is high time the party quit trying to resist us, as we're the only ones fighting to get the gun out of its hand.
Georgia Delegate
P.S. For those who are interested there is 30 minutes of video footage of the Georgia convention at thecharminitiative(dot)wordpress(dot)com. Unfortunately it doesn't show Sue Everhart's McCain/Jesus remark, nor does it show the Ron Paul supporters standing to vote for suspending the rules to allow for floor nominations. What it does show is Randy Evans' condescension toward those who foolishly thought they were at a political convention where open debate was allowed.
4 - GINNY
We love this! Your panties are all in a knot, and we're making you uncomfortable. Get used to it.
5 - Larry B.
Are you serious when you write that Paul supporters are harming efforts to move the party in a more pro-liberty direction?
The only pro-liberty promises I have heard from Republicans (or from Democrats for that matter) are coming from Ron Paul! If Paul supporters don't make noise, our civil liberties are going to continue disappearing faster than unbiased reporting in the media.
6 - Chris
You know Dave, all us supporters of Ron Paul that are supposedly so "disruptive" I really hope that everyone who is a supporter of the good doctor still vote for him in November and really disrupt the establishment! As far as us harming moving the party in a more pro-liberty direction, what do you have to say about John McCain who wants to restrict free speech and even wants blogs to go through government approval before they can be posted. How exactly is that pro-liberty?
7 - DJ
Cherry Picking: The Executive loves it, the Mass Media runs with it, but the people aren't going to buy it.
8 - Dave Nalle
So, apparently the primary characteristics of Ron Paul supporters are that they cannot read and are bizarrely paranoid. That's the only way I can explain the first series of posts here, because they seem to have come to the conclusion that I'm attacking their movement, when the opposite is the case here.
As should be clear from the article, I think the Ron Paul movement has something very positive to contribute to the GOP. My concern is that it's being thrown away because their tactics are driving away the allies they need to actually break the stranglehold of the blue hairs and change the party. That's why it's all about 'backlash'.
Dave
9 - Paula
This is America and all voices should be heard. The GOP is going down the wrong path, I still can't believe they backed McCain, he is a minibush. Ron Paul supporters see this, the rest of the country sees this except for the GOP. Ron Paul supporters by the numbers are getting involved in their local GOP and we are enthusiastic. Ron Paul inspires people like Obama inspires people, except Ron Paul has the track record to prove it. Obama is going to clean McCains clock in debates, because McCain is an empty shell. Ron Paul is the only candidate that I will continue to support, he walks the walk...its the message he brings to the American people. Ron Paul cares what happens to this country.
10 - Dave Nalle
Sorry, Dave, but Ron Paul's supporters didn't 'disrupt' the Georgia Republican Convention as you state here. We were all duly elected delegates and, as such, were participating in our party's convention no differently than any other delegates.
Where did I say that here? The only thing I said about the Georgia convention was:
Which was based on the article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Now, based on your comments I see that they downplayed what went on at the convention, and that the Paul supporters there did engage in much the same strategy as they employed at other conventions which many have viewed as disruptive.
Personally I think it's reasonable to do some things from the floor. The problem is that based on past experience the convention managers have concluded that if they allow the RP supporters to get away with any motions from the floor that's a first step to a complete takeover of the convention, which is a crappy situation for all of us, but one which the RP folks are ultimately responsible for creating.
Dave
11 - Shannon
This is totally and completely untrue. Yes, lots of Ron Paul supporters discussed this a long time ago but the Ron Paul campaign decided that that was not the right thing to do. The campaign, above all else, wants us to act with integrity and to do this would not be taking the high road.
I was just at my republican state convention, were you? The McCain people were the ones who used the rules against us. They used Stalin-style tactics such as handing out ballots that only had one name on them and they would not count any write ins. (They always got 100% of the vote, sound familiar?) They tried to use Robert's Rules to cut off all debate or dissent. They even walked out in order to prevent any form of debate (which is the whole point of going to the convention at all) and they "lost" people's paperwork and wouldn't let them participate. Why are people not writing about that?
We have always acted with dignity. We have played by their rules without using them against them. If you don't believe me, tell me one single time when we have actually used Robert's Rules in order to disrupt the convention?
And also, you speak about how we're creating "backlash" you couldn't be further from the truth. At my convention I've heard a ton of people saying how they were McCain supporters and after seeing the McCain campaign's actions they decided they were in the Paul camp. Every convention we go to people come over to our side and it's BECAUSE we act with integrity and it's not politics as usual. That's why we fight.
12 - Martina
In Indiana, we did the only thing we could do: stood to vote no in opposition to the hand picked selection of delegate, electors, and committeemen. We didn't cause a scene or disruption.
The utter shocked look on people's faces from the surprise of us daring to disagree with the party was discouraging to me. I didn't go to the convention to be a rubber stamp sheep. I'm a part of the team when the team follows the rules.
Funny thing is, we're not enemies. Most of the Republicans I know in Indiana can't STAND McCain, and only barely tolerate Daniels. Why is it they just can't see that we're on the same team?
I hope Texas gets some headway with their lawsuit. I'm thankful in my county/district, the leaders are respectful, excited about having us involved, and are true conservatives. Unfortunately, I don't think that's the case state or nationwide.
13 - Clavos
Ron Paul lost.
Move on.
14 - Dr Dreadful
Clav,
Dave writes yet another of his Ron-Paul-and-GOP-internal-politics screeds, with the usual predictable response.
I'm done even reading them. Let's all move on!
15 - steve r
I am just old enough to recall that similar charges and countercharges circulated about the Goldwater people during the times prior to his finally securing the GOP nomination.
So will it always be when a failing, flailing entrenched smug atherosclerotic gerontocracy finds itself unexpectedly -- and these things always understandably are unexpected -- challenged by the young turks, in any organization at all times and in all places throughout history.
Apparently McCain "would rather be right than President." Recall that strategy worked out so well for President Henry Clay.
The GOP of the neocon establishment ilk needs some years out of power in the desert for the surviving elements to come to terms with the egregious failings of the past decade or so.
What is fascinating to me is that it took the Democrats decades longer in power unchallenged to become as arrogant, cynical and abusive of office as the GOP became since 1994. I hate to say anything nice about them then or now, but I have to wonder why. Perhaps it was the messianic zeal of the religious element who felt that they had a divine mandate to rule in all senses of the word.
It would be better in the long run so as to avoid having the message mixed when the November rout occurs, if McCain were to pick one of the cloned dwarfs who stood with him on the stage to be his running mate. Thank goodness Ron Paul has ruled out running with McCain so long as McCain holds the positions he does. That forecloses the possibility that the electoral discrediting of the GOP in 2008 will be confounded in the popular mind with the views of authentic Republicans in the Taft/Goldwater/Paul tradition.
16 - Dave Nalle
This is totally and completely untrue. Yes, lots of Ron Paul supporters discussed this a long time ago but the Ron Paul campaign decided that that was not the right thing to do. The campaign, above all else, wants us to act with integrity and to do this would not be taking the high road.
The truth is that this the description of tactics being used by both sides in this article is based on what's actually happening at the state conventions.
I was just at my republican state convention, were you?
If you had bothered to read the article you'd know it's not until next week.
The McCain people were the ones who used the rules against us. They used Stalin-style tactics such as handing out ballots that only had one name on them and they would not count any write ins. (They always got 100% of the vote, sound familiar?) They tried to use Robert's Rules to cut off all debate or dissent. They even walked out in order to prevent any form of debate (which is the whole point of going to the convention at all) and they "lost" people's paperwork and wouldn't let them participate. Why are people not writing about that?
If you had read the article you'd know that this is what I'm reporting on. This is the backlash mentioned in the title.
We have always acted with dignity. We have played by their rules without using them against them. If you don't believe me, tell me one single time when we have actually used Robert's Rules in order to disrupt the convention?
Follow the links.
And also, you speak about how we're creating "backlash" you couldn't be further from the truth. At my convention I've heard a ton of people saying how they were McCain supporters and after seeing the McCain campaign's actions they decided they were in the Paul camp. Every convention we go to people come over to our side and it's BECAUSE we act with integrity and it's not politics as usual. That's why we fight.
What you're describing here is backlash against the backlash, and I guess that's a good thing - but the problem is that it doesn't get anything accomplished.
Dave
17 - Another Georgia Delegate
@ Georgia Delegate
The McCain camp didn't have much of a choice but to change the rules to supercede Robert's Rules. They had to make a decision that would bring about the most good to the majority of the party. Allowing the Paul people to make nominations from the floor in opposition to the ones that were already chosen by the nominating committee would have been a disaster. The convention would have never ended. The same is true with all the other state conventions. The GOP leadership has to "bend" the rules so to speak in order to prevent the Paul people from taking over or from influencing other delegates that may or may not understand certain GOP positions/resolutions. I thought Randy Evans did a superb job of "quelling the rebellion" even though as it turned out, the Paul people didn't have a majority. Contrary to popular opinion, the purpose of the state conventions is NOT to elect national delegates...those are already elected by the nominating committee. The purpose is to celebrate the Republican Party, and every four years, we celebrate the Republican nominee for President. If you want to be a national delegate, you have to earn it.
Knowing that, you have to admit that the Paul people were treated very fairly. The Paul people were the ones that were disrupting the convention and even booing the chairman. When things got out of hand, or when a Paul person was contesting a resolution that absolutely did NOT need to be contested, Randy Evans would politely and professionally rule their motion "out of order" or even turn their mic down. One guy was hauled off by security I think because he wouldn't shut up, and he seemed to be threatening the chairman. This is the kind of stuff that we (and especially the chairman) had to put up with. And we weren't going to tolerate it. As they say, "desperate times call for desperate measures".
Look, McCain wasn't my first choice, but as the primaries progressed, it was clear that he was the choice of the majority of the Republican Party. At that point, I knew that I had to align myself with his candidacy and support him. That is what you need to do. Join the Republican party or create your own party. As of now, you really don't belong in the GOP.
Support McCain!
18 - Dave Nalle
Odd, that last description doesn't sound like the prior claim of Paul supporters "acting with dignity and respect".
Clearly there are two very different perspectives here.
I do think that our last Georgian is off-base in suggesting that the convention is for no purpose but to celebrate the party and candidate. There ought to be provisions for reasonable challenges to delegates and to changing the slate of delegates at the convention.
The nominating committee process allows for very little input, and those who aren't part of the in-group do deserve some sort of voice, and the convention may be the only place they can be heard. So they ought to be heard - but their demands should be reasonable and not disruptive and they shouldn't be trying to completely take over conventions. There needs to be a process where the factions can meet part way and work out a compromise which benefits everyone fairly.
Dave
19 - Jack D
To all you McCainiacs
What should be important to everyone is whoever gets picked should fulfill their job according the country's rule book, the Constitution.
When you are watching professional sports everyone expects the judges to not take sides or have their own agenda. They are expected to make sure that both sides stick to the rules. I don't see why a President or any other person "SWORN" to uphold and defend it should have a "platform" The platform has been laid out since 1776 and if the rules are to change, there are appropriate ways to do it and that doesn't mean voting for the next Dictator because you like the platform of that Dictator.
For those of you that think America is a Democracy or that the Federal Reserve is Federal, please do your country and the rest of us a favor by staying home on election day. You are far too uninformed to be choosing our next leader. America is a Republic and the Federal Reserve is privately owned with 12 member banks.
For those of you who just can't figure out what it is going through the minds of the Paul supporters I would suggest for starters watching the online videos Overview of America and America Freedom to Fascism.
I think I can speak for most Paul supporters when I say that living in this country is like being on an ice burgh where the majority of the people want to ride it out while the Paul people are screaming from the roof tops to get off the burgh and into the boat but Americans think the boat is too nutty of an idea. We have been playing this game of arguing over Democrat versus Republican with each having their left or right platform and we then tend to vote based on that and forget all about the Constitution as do our leaders.
We are just trying to save the country from things that you are not yet aware of. Please understand this. Please just watch the videos and the light just might come on in your head.
20 - Doug
My wife and I donated the max allowed for Ron Pauls campaign. I joined the local RP meetup group. My wife and I went door to door handing out RP campaign material. This from a couple who has never voted for a presidential candidate before. We're watching the GOP's action to determine if they deserve our support.
21 - Dave Nalle
Jack, you express brilliantly (if accidentally) why so many of us are frustrated with the Ron Paul supporters.
First, there's the condescension. Do you honestly think that the rest of us don't want to follow the constitution? That we don't know the difference between a Republic and a Democracy? The problem here is that you want to follow an edited version of the Constitution and ignore the parts you don't like. As for the Federal Reserve, we all know what it is, but that doesn't mean that we agree that it's a bad thing. Most libertarians think that privatizing government institutions is a GOOD thing.
Then there's the videos you mention. Twaddle from Alex Jones and other JBS stooges. Most of us aren't interested in being part of the lunatic fringe.
It's not that we're unware of the problems in this country, it's that we want real solutions to real problems, not fantasy solutions to paranoid problems.
Dave
22 - Brad F
With Barr in the race, McCain can't win... So make your choice republicans, Barr Or Obama?
The Ron Paulers will never support McCain unless water boarding is implemented as the newest GOP recruiting tool.
Ron Paul has his own party, It's the Libertarian Party.
23 - Dave Nalle
My wife and I donated the max allowed for Ron Pauls campaign. I joined the local RP meetup group. My wife and I went door to door handing out RP campaign material. This from a couple who has never voted for a presidential candidate before. We're watching the GOP's action to determine if they deserve our support.
So what would make them 'deserve' your support? Giving Ron Paul the nomination despite the fact that he didn't win even close to a majority of the primary vote or the delegates? If that's your standard then you're not being realistic.
Would you be satisfied if the party platform looked somewhat more reasonable than it has since 1964 and if Paul got a decent speaking slot at the national convention? At this point that's about all you can realistically hope for. More change might be possible in an off-year.
Dave
24 - Mike
Up here in Washington the McCain supporters walked out of the convention, attempting to break the quorum so we couldn't debate resolutions. We spent 45 minutes counting people, then when we still had enough people to continue, they all came rushing back in from the hallway. They proceeded to stall another 45 minutes while they could all return, and by then we didn't have enough people vote to extend the convention.
Who's being disruptive here?
25 - Doug
They would deserve our support by 1) recognizing the party has drifted far far away from it's platform of smaller government and more liberties, and 2) follow their own GOP rules.
You mentioned that the Fed can't be all bad because it's privatized, and that that is what libertarians' goal is. That's incorrect, libertarians goal is for a free market. for instance if the government passed a law requiring you to buy your chicken from Tyson's that would indeed be a product produced by a private company but it would be a far cry from being a free market. Its the same with the Federal Reserve and their product (The Federal Reserve Note).