It took a little longer then I expected, but now some on the far right are coming out and saying that the tsunami that killed more then 295,000 people was the wrath of God. Speaking at a Southern Baptist pastor's conference, Henry Blackaby said that the earthquake and the massive tidal wave that followed was God getting revenge on different countries for their persecution of Christians.
Blackaby came to this conclusion after seeing a map by Voice of the Martyers that showed which countries killed Christians and realizing that many of those countries were hit by the tsunami
“If you read the Old Testament, especially, God is very concerned how the nations treat His covenant people,” Blackaby explained. “The nations that persecuted, offended and killed His people, God came down and destroyed them. And He’s the same God today. He’s just as concerned about His people.”
Apparently God decided that the best way to get his message was to kill almost 300,000 people, most of whom were peaceful people living quiet, private lives and most were either Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim.
He went on to tell the Baptist Press, a propaganda machine masquerading as a legitimate news source, that he expected the secular media to “Jump all over” his comments. Well they haven’t and the fact that he said that leads me to believe that he wants a national firestorm brewing around him. After all it’s cool now to be an controversial conseverative.
In the end I’m left asking who the hell is the Blackaby guy and why is he trying to draw controversy to himself? He’s a guy who runs a family ministry and uses the word Dr. in front of his name because he holds not just one, but four honorary degrees from conservative religious colleges.
Most likely Blackaby is a guy who has a program he wants to push and will use his “controversial stance” on the tsunami disaster to drum up some publicity for himself.
In the end I think Archbishop of Sydney Cardinal George Pell said it best:
"It is inaccurate to call the tsunami an act of God, because God did not intervene to provoke the disaster. We might still ask why He did not create a more perfect world, why God permits so much suffering. We don't know. Evil remains a mystery, but we are called to battle against it, and it is only one part of our story.
Neither has the tsunami anything in common with God's final judgement, as the tsunami killed and destroyed capriciously, without rhyme or reason. God's judgement will be the ultimate in justice and mercy, with only those unrepentantly evil being punished".
Article comments
1 - Tim Hall
Sounds like this twit is trying to be the real world equivalent of a Usenet troll. The best response is probably to ignore him and deny him the publicity he craves.
As they say in UseNet
---------> Plonk!
(The Plonk is directed at "Dr" Blackaby, not the poster!)
2 - Roy Smith
Speaking as a Christian, all I can ask is that people recognize that these religious right extremists are not Christian, even though they might claim to be. Being Christian requires one to follow the teachings of Christ.
3 - Eric Olsen
thanks Matt, I guess enough time has passed now that those with agendas feel free to loose them upon the world
4 - DrPat
So "read the Old Testament, especially, God is very concerned how the nations treat His covenant people". Seems that Dr. Blackaby ought to wait for a tsunami to strike Germany and Poland, then. Or Jordan and Palestine, maybe.
Unless I am mistaken, the People of the Covenant he refers to were Jews, not Christians.
5 - Eric Olsen
any old People of the Covenant in a storm, so to speak
6 - RJ
"the tsunami that killed more then [sic] 295,000 people"
Cite?
7 - Matt Schafer
"the tsunami that killed more then [sic] 295,000 people"
Cite?
It's called a Yahoo news search RJ. One doesn't have to cite readily available facts, but just for you here's some citation
8 - dietdoc
Mark writes:
"Apparently God decided that the best way to get his message was to kill almost 300,000 people, most of whom were peaceful people living quiet, private lives and most were either Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim."
Reply: These kinds of statements, as made by Blackaby, are absolutely, positively, completely wrong. As a Christian, I find his interpretation of the God's Will reprehensible and ostentatious. Blackaby, nor anyone else, can interpret "Acts of God." I suspect there were quite a few Christians in the carnage, as well.
Pompous, self-righteous "interpreters of God" give Christianity a bad name among the world's religions. Just as the Mullahs preaching "death to all Christians and Jews" give Islam a distorted perception to others.
9 - JR
Apparently God decided that the best way to get his message was to kill almost 300,000 people, most of whom were peaceful people living quiet, private lives and most were either Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim.
This goes along with the Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell crowd who said that God allowed the 11-September attacks to happen because the gays and liberals had taken over America. Yet the attackers struck after the liberals had lost the Presidency, and they killed pretty indiscriminately.
This God character seems rather slow and clumsy; I think we can take Him. Why should we put up with His violent tantrums any more?
10 - Shark
I beat him to it -- as part of my New Years 2005 address to the nation.
Great minds think alike.. and all that...
11 - Angela Chen Shui
Great thread! Anyone read the New Bible? Just four words simply impossible to twist around and misrepresent: "You Are God Also."
Finish, done. Hard to continue w/ the finger pointing and duality...
12 - Angela Chen Shui
Sorry, 'New Energy Bible'.. not sure it's available on Amazon.. I'll check.
13 - dietdoc
Shark writes:
"Great minds think alike.. and all that..."
Reply: Not sure I would go there, dude. Comparisons, on this particular topic, are a minefield. (wink)
Ron
14 - Enrique
Readers:
Several comments from another perspective...
1.) Is the God of the Bible able to CAUSE a natural disaster resulting in significant loss of both person and property?
If the Bible is truth, the answer is YES. He has done so before.
2.) Are there circumstances which can exist in which the God of the Bible is willing to do so?
If the Bible is truth, the answer is YES. He has expressed some of these before.
3.) Has the God of the Bible at any time in history brought disaster upon those that oppose Him or His people?
If the Bible is truth, the answer is YES. He has.
4.) Has He ever caused/allowed the "good" people to suffer alongside the "bad" ones?
Once again, YES.
5.) Has the God of the Bible given us reason to believe His disposition to the matters above have changed?
To the contrary. If the Bible is truth, God has told us that He "is the same yesterday, today, and forever."
Conclusion: If the Bible is truth, then it cannot be claimed that God did NOT cause the disaster being commented on. This does not mean that He DID cause it; only that it is a true possibility.
Additional Comments:
The first post did not mention anything or investigate Blackaby's claim that at least one Imam also attributes the disaster to God's judgement. Are we picking and choosing facts to slam this guy? Is this Imam also a far right fundamentalist Christian that we should distance ourselves from? What about the map cited in the article's link? Is he making that up? Did anyone try to check that out?
Certainly one may reject the Bible. But one thing is sure: the truths held within it do not change as does the political correctness and opinions of the day. Furthermore, I believe all would find it interesting to know the opinion of the survivors of this disaster. Having seen the reaction to a major disaster in Mexico City some years back, I'm confident that many in the disaster region are concerned at this time with God's view toward them. When one is in the middle of a personal disaster, the "God wouldn't do that because He is Love" and "I don't even believe in God" thinking often melts away.
So, there you have it a different perspective.
Any reaction to the one viewpoint that your country (if you're in the US) cannot tolerate--that of a believer?? Where by the way is the flaw in Blackaby's logic? Did he say this "IS" an act of God? Or that he "thinks" it is?
15 - Roy Smith
Is this Imam also a far right fundamentalist Christian that we should distance ourselves from?
No, but he is very possibly a far right fundamentalist Muslim that we should distance ourselves from.
The book of Genesis (the one with the Flood) notes how the rainbow is God's promise to the world to not destroy humanity again for its sins. Is God a liar?
BTW, I am a Christian, and I believe the Bible is Truth. But it is spiritual truth (something religion is useful for finding), not literal truth (in which we are much better served by the scientific method).
16 - dietdoc
Roy writes:
"BTW, I am a Christian, and I believe the Bible is Truth. But it is spiritual truth (something religion is useful for finding), not literal truth (in which we are much better served by the scientific method)"
Reply: Interesting dichotomy, Roy. Can you truly reconcile one with the other? I would be interested in that, if you have the time or care to reply.
Ron
17 - RJ
Matt,
My cite is here.
My source has under 285,000 dead OR missing.
Some of those missing are presumably not dead.
So, I was just questioning your "the tsunami that killed more then 295,000 people" statement. No big deal...
18 - Duane
Enrique: "If the Bible is truth, then it cannot be claimed that God did NOT cause the disaster being commented on. This does not mean that He DID cause it; only that it is a true possibility."
Sure, maybe it was God's wrath. Or, maybe... hmmm...maybe, it was... an earthquake! You see, Enrique, large vertical movements of the earth's crust can occur at tectonic plate boundaries. Around the margins of the Pacific Ocean, for example, denser oceanic plates slip under continental plates in a process known as subduction. Now get this: subduction earthquakes are particularly effective in generating tsunamis. Tsunamis are caused by rapid vertical displacements of the water lying over the deforming sea floor. The water above the deformed area is displaced from its equilibrium position. Waves are formed as the displaced water, which acts under the influence of gravity, attempts to regain its equilibrium. When large areas of the sea floor elevate or subside, a tsunami can be created, and all hell breaks loose (pardon the expression).
So, maybe it was God, or maybe it was just an earthquake. Occam's Razor is useful here. It advises us to choose the simplest explanation for a given phenomenon. Occam's razor helps us to "shave off" those constructs that are not really needed to explain the phenomenon. Hmmm. Which explanation is simpler?
Now, you might come back with, "God caused the earthquake!" Uh, OK. In 1989, I was about 5 miles from where 35 people were crushed to death by the Cypress Viaduct in Oakland. What are the odds that God was able to get all those people -- shameless sinners who needed a good smiting -- on the same stretch of road at precisely the right moment? Why choose this way to wipe out sinners? It seems like a rather vulgar display of power. Did the loved ones of the crushed also need to suffer? It cost $1.25 billion to fix that single stretch of road. Why not just strike the sinners dead with lightning bolts, or make their heads explode, or put them all on a elevator then cut the cable? Does adding to an already horrible commute and adding an additional tax burden help God spread his message? God surely does work in mysterious ways.
19 - RJ
GodDidIt!
20 - Duane
You must be too young to use a razor.
21 - DrPat
Maybe RJ's using a really dull Occam's Razor, Duane!
And Rev. Blackaby, in this metaphor, can use the froth from his lips in lieu of shaving foam...
22 - Angela Chen Shui
'can use the froth from his lips in lieu of shaving foam...'
ooh la la...!
23 - RJ
"GodDidIt!"
Uh, this was sarcastic...
24 - Silas Kain
I always thought that Pauline Christian doctrine dictates that the “New Covenant” negates the writings of the Old Testament in favor of the Gospel and writings of St. Paul. Oops. Perhaps I should have placed St. Paul first since it seems most right wing fundamentalist Christians base all of their judgments not on the teachings of Christ but St. Paul.
We don’t need a natural disaster from God to punish sinners. We have plenty of wars in our history that have caused the blood of millions to be shed in His name. Instead of God being our friend, Judeo Christians have created a vengeful personage who seems to exist for nothing but to cast sinners into the fires of Hell. Muslims have created an Allah who does not love all humanity but only those who follow the teachings of the Koran. It seems to me that the three religions, all with roots in Abraham, have done enough to punish mankind on their own without any Divine Intervention.
How can one have faith in God, and not have faith in their fellow human beings? Somewhere along the way we lost something in the translations of sacred writings. One basic teaching that seems to be prevalent in most religions is that God is part of humanity as humanity is part of God. All of this sounds illogical but in simplifying things it seems to me that humans must rely on other humans in the grand scheme of things.
25 - solarwindspirit
The Great and Merciful God? (question) Perhaps atheism is merely a stalemate for a loosing belief and faith in humanity of this earth. If it's God's job to find salvation for humanity (as many have assigned this diety too) then it's man's job to find a salvation in and of nature. The earth is increasingly an enclosing hemisphere. ..the world is becoming smaller and smaller. ..the time is now. . .to start having right mindedness of this great shpere. The earth is not a resource, it is life itself. To think that this diety is not connected to the earth and the family humanity. . .as many would like to think it so. .well that would be indeed be the true definition of atheism. ..merely chaos without the slightest intelligent organizing life force and interconnectedness. . .in this web of life.
What do you think would be the reaction formation of a 'god' observing the lack of compassion, man's inhumanity to man and other senseless evils? Do you think 'god' keeps a tabularosa like the culture man in india? A dowry system perhaps? yes there are many a expansive and thoughtful dimension to find a place of true peace and happiness. . .when surrounded by many unbelievers. . .
just like the many mansions and famine
wiped clean of all destructiveness in one's own mind