Facing disaster in 2008, are Republicans Looking to the Terrorists to Revive Their Party's Chances?
Democrats have often been accused by conservatives of secretly wanting to lose the war in Iraq because it would benefit them politically. Given the difficulty in even defining the meaning of "win" and "lose" in the quagmire that is Iraq, it seems a rather specious charge.…
Article comments
76 - Dave Nalle
So you're saying that picking the word 'incontrovertible' instead of 'definitive', for example, makes you a liar?
Bliffle, are you aware that there are a great many people - some of them inside the intelligence community - who believe that Iraq DID have WMDs and moved them out of the country, and that there is considerable evidence which is largely ignored to support this theory?
As you may recall, a lot of the evidence Colin Powell brought to the UN was evidence of the Iraqis packing up WMDs in preparation for moving them somewhere else.
Dave
77 - Clavos
And, we ALL know that Americans, and especially American politicians, DON"T LIE!
Heh.
Oh, and the reason for repeating my question in #9 (only thrice until now, BTW) was because Mr. DeLong STILL hasn't directly answered it.
78 - Doug DeLong
handyguy...Which leads us back to Doug's article, a good piece that has been unfairly attacked here.
dave...As for Doug's article, it's still inflammatory claptrap.
Funny how the same article can be read so differently, but I'm gonna have to go with handyguy on this one.
clavos...Oh, and the reason for repeating my question in #9 (only thrice until now, BTW) was because Mr. DeLong STILL hasn't directly answered it.
Please, call me Doug. We're all friends here.
Actually, I answered your question. You just didn't like the answer. Your question was "Are there some Democrats who would like us to lose in Iraq?" and my answer was that your question was not appropriate, because we've already lost. It would be like asking, "Are there some Democrats who would like the Bears to lose the Super Bowl?" after the final gun had sounded. As much lipstick as Bush tries, and will try, to put on this pig called Iraq, it's still gonna be a pig.
The only focus from this point on should be on how to get out without further damange to our nation (and to Iraq). Do you really think that Iraq is going to magically turn around and everything will be hunky-dorey?
I'll admit that some Democrats get a certain satisfaction every time Bush screws up anything, but there's not much point in that anymore. Bush's failures are on the record, and satisfaction has been replaced with depression and frustration.
The question that this article asked was deliberately provocative, because I had come across some rather disturbing comments from some prominent Republicans to the effect that as soon as we get attacked again, people will come around to Bush's way of thinking.
I wanted to raise the question of how an attack might affect people's political feelings, and wondered if there were some Republicans who thought that it might benefit their party in some way.
By the way, Dave, you had mentioned that you'd thought of writing an article something along the lines of Stu Bykofsky's piece. If you get around to it, I'd love to read it.
I apologize if some of my comments sounded overly snide or rude. I'm really a very nice guy. But Dave, for some reason, brings out my snide side, with his condescending put-downs. But I'm sure he's also a very nice guy, and apparently I bring out his condescending side.
79 - Dave Nalle
Doug, it's the closed-minded partisanship which sets me off. I'm sure that on a subject other than the ones you're writing on you'd be a joy to read, but with every comment you make more and more clear that you're an ideologue and your mind is completely closed.
Case in point, your recent non-response to Clavos. Rejecting his premise out of hand doesn't speak well to your open-mindedness or your ability to carry on any kind of two-sided conversation. You'd clearly prefer to just tell us what to think and not consider our points of view, especially if they challenge your assumptions.
Why don't you just answer his question? Will you acknowledge that there are democrats who seek to build political power on the back of failures in Iraq, past or future?
There, does that make it more answerable for you?
Dave
80 - Doug DeLong
Dave, I answered the question, and you can keep re-wording the question all you want, but like they say in court...asked and answered, your honor.
And your constant harping about my "partisanship" is tiresome. Give it a rest, already. I'm not any more "partisan" than you are. And I'm certainly not any more "closed-minded" than you are. I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe. Let's leave it at that.
But go ahead and continue to insult me if it relieves the stress in your life. I'm happy to help out.
81 - bliffle
Dave Nalle again demonstrates his utter intellectual dishonesty by attempting to permute "incontrovertible proof" into a popular vote or a mere choice of words. Despicable.
82 - Doug DeLong
bliffle, I'd like to check out your blog, but the link next to your name doesn't seem to work.
83 - Clavos
OK Mr. DeLong, have it your way.
It is my belief that there ARE Democrats who believe, as you do, that we have already lost in Iraq, and are glad this is so, for partisan reasons.
I further believe that these same elements of the party would also like to see the loss become a decisive combat defeat of our troops, and that they hope this will happen prior to the election in order to further embarrass the Republicans.
And Dave is right; you never DID answer my question; you dodged it.
84 - troll
ok Clavos - you've stated your beliefs...so what's your point - ?
that DeLong's article doesn't give equal time to the masturbatory dreams of democrat assholes - ?
...morally bankrupt sick fucks come from all political backgrounds and persuasions
85 - Doug DeLong
Well, Mr. Clavos, it seems to me that things have gotten so bad in Iraq, so completely FUBAR, that the only refuge Bush apologists have is to bitch and moan about the Democrats, rather than put the blame where it belongs, squarely on the shoulders of this corrupt administration...
By the way, why don't you give me your scenario for how this war is gonna turn out? How, exactly, are we going to pull victory from the jaws of defeat?
Yeah, I know, Dave, I'm being partisan again. Sorry about that.
86 - Clavos
Indeed they do, troll.
And, the degree to which Mr. DeLong evaded my question and implied in his article that all such sickness is purely on the Republican side IS my point.
And I'm not even a Republican.
87 - Doug DeLong
Clavos,
And what exactly is your evidence that Democrats have these feelings and motivations? I offered actual quotations from actual Republicans in my piece to indicate that at least some Republicans might be thinking that an attack would be beneficial for their party. Notice that I also said that I thought MOST Republicans did NOT feel this way.
Where are your quotes?
88 - Clavos
Read the DailyKos...
89 - REMF
"Doug, it's the closed-minded partisanship which sets me off."
- Dave Nalle
Ooooohh...be afraid, Doug. Be very afraid.
(MCH)
90 - Nancy
Even I don't wish for failure in Iraq - even if it means the downfall & utter discrediting of BushCo - & I'm as partisan anti-Bush (not necessarily anti-GOP or pro-Dem) as anyone can get. I haven't heard any (known to me as) Dems wishing for it, either.
What I DO wish for - & have repeatedly heard from other anti-Bush/anti-war conversations, is that we want our troops HOME so they're safe, & so they can do what they're supposed to do which is protect the US HERE - NOT in some fucking pisshole in the middle east for a bunch of ragheads who don't deserve/don't want/don't care a flying fuck about democracy, fighting for oil profits for a pack of greedy multinational corporations manned by the usual pack of greedy, self-centered, power-mad, sociopathic elites, who in turn control an utterly corrupt, morally bankrupt, ethically clueless, totally traitorous administrative regime headed by an alcoholic fratboy chimp & a homicidal maniac.
That's why.
Of course, Dave & fellow BushCo apologists will continue to assert that anybody who isn't with them is secretly hoping for the downfall of the US, because they've found that if a lie is repeated often enough, the vast preponderance of sheeple & the MSM will start to believe it. Or at least, they hope they will.
91 - Clavos
Nancy,
Again, read the DailyKos; I'm not making this shit up.
I say bring the troops home, too.
And I say, disband them, because if we don't, they'll be in the Sudan so fast it'll make your head spin (the rumblings are already starting on the left).
And after that, there'll be another hot spot in the world into which America, the world's self-appointed policeman, will want to stick its collective gringo nose.
92 - Nancy
I can't stand DailyKos, therefore I don't bother to read it. I'm sure some idiots think that way - I never asserted that NONE did - and usually it's those that have the biggest mouths & most hot air. The rest of us - rather like the bulk of 'normal' everyday GOP folks - don't stand with them. DailyKos doesn't speak for me or anybody I've talked to, any more than I recognise that the religious reich speaks for you or most GOPs. And I certainly wouldn't accuse you of making it up. I know you don't do that. Unlike some on this site. BTW, where is MR lately? Did she possibly get kicked by a burro?
93 - Nancy
Maybe she's visiting Zing2 in Seattle?
94 - Doug DeLong
Nancy,
greedy, self-centered, power-mad, sociopathic elites, who in turn control an utterly corrupt, morally bankrupt, ethically clueless, totally traitorous administrative regime headed by an alcoholic fratboy chimp & a homicidal maniac.
As an English teacher, I salute your incredibly creative use of adjectives.
95 - Nancy
Thank you, but the credit goes to my English teacher, the late Ms. Cornelia Sheehan, an educational genius, IMO. And not because of me.
96 - Nancy
Birds are not in the habit of being kicked by burros.
Think about it.
As for visiting zing, I have managed to fly uner his radar here in Seattle.
I am here to call atention to the dogpacking being done by the Nalle Clones in regard to Doug.
Vox Populi could not possibly agree more....
So transparent it amazes me that you fools believe all those alter egos are real.
97 - Christopher Rose
For the avoidance of confusion, the Nancy who made comment #96 is not the same Nancy who made #95 and is our regular Nancy. In fact, the tone of #96 reminds me of a certain bird that has temporarily flown north...
98 - Dr Dreadful
I suspect that MR made a boo-boo. She meant to put her alias in the appropriate place, and then type: "Nancy: birds are not in the habit..."
99 - Nancy
Well at least she's still alive & commenting. Y'start to worry a tad when a regular, proflific contributor drops out of sight for awhile.
100 - moonraven
Precisely, doc.
Glad to know that I am always the News of the Day.
Peabrains....
101 - Nancy
No, you were the subject of concern. Perhaps unwarrantedly.
102 - moonraven
Don't try to shit me. It is patently obvious from a brief glance at this thread that you folks have nothing to write about except me.
103 - Clavos
Yaaawwwnnn...
104 - Nancy
Uhh...actually we were all carrying on quite well about other things until I was stupid enough to invoke your name. Mea culpa. I should have kept my mouth shut, so to speak. Sorry all.
105 - Clavos
OK, Nancy. But just this once...
106 - moonraven
Oh really?
I don't see anything else on this thread--and I don't believe its title was even moonraven is missing....
Don't blame your stupidity on me.
107 - Andy Marsh
Talk about bitter!!!
108 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
"What I DO wish for - & have repeatedly heard from other anti-Bush/anti-war conversations, is that we want our troops HOME so they're safe, & so they can do what they're supposed to do which is protect the US HERE - NOT in some fucking pisshole in the middle east for a bunch of ragheads who don't deserve/don't want/don't care a flying fuck about democracy, fighting for oil profits for a pack of greedy multinational corporations manned by the usual pack of greedy, self-centered, power-mad, sociopathic elites, who in turn control an utterly corrupt, morally bankrupt, ethically clueless, totally traitorous administrative regime headed by an alcoholic fratboy chimp & a homicidal maniac."
Nancy,
Don't hold back out of a need to show restraint. Tell us what you really feel....
By the way "I hate to be an RJ..." - is that a reference to me, dear?
109 - Nancy
No Ruvy, you know it wasn't.
110 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Nancy,
Actually, I didn't know; that's why I asked. But I do feel better knowing that it wasn't a reference to me...