It seems to me that anti-war sentiment in this country — the U.K. — has gotten completely out of bounds. First we had Royal Air Force personnel being abused in the streets for daring to wear their uniforms into town on errands. (To be fair to Gordon Brown, he tried to quell the backlash at the time.) Then the National Teachers Union wanted to bar all Army recruitment personnel from schools. Soon after that came the story of the soldier who was thrown off a train for not having his armed services discount pass. When the rifleman tried to explain that he shouldn't pay the full fare because he was entitled to a discount, the train conductor told him, "I don't know what you're complaining about. It's not as if you've taken a bullet or anything." That anyone, especially in a public service position, could disrespect a squaddie as the ticket inspector did reflects just how low civilians in the U.K. are capable of stooping.
The immaturity doesn't even end there. A couple of weeks ago, a hotel refused a room to a soldier who was injured in Afghanistan.
Corporal Tomos Stringer was on leave and visiting a friend in the English county of Surrey. He tried to sign in for a night's stay at the Metro Hotel, but was told that it was hotel policy to not accept any of the Armed Forces as guests.
Stringer's mother, understandably enraged by this impudence, said, "We've been to America, and their military get treated like heroes over there. I think it's terrible they [the UK Armed Forces] can't even wear their uniform with pride."
It wasn't always that way, however. During the later years of the Vietnam War, American soldiers returning to the States were treated horribly by most of the general public. They were spat at, called "baby killers," and no-one cared that homelessness and alcoholism were their only rewards for fighting for their country. This was, of course, when the baby boomers, known for their me-first mentality, were coming of age, a terrible time in our history.
Article comments
1 - RJ Elliott
To be fair, I suspect that these instances of disrespect you cite are the exception, rather than the rule.
But, then again, you are the one living over there, so I'm sure you have a better feel for the mood in the UK than I do.
2 - Mark Edward Manning
I dunno, RJ: True enough, not every single soul over here feels that way, but there sure do seem to be an awful lot of these people, because you're always hearing about the latest squaddie to get dissed upon arriving home.
3 - Christopher Rose
Or, to put Mr Manning's latest (deliberate?) warping of reality into perspective, a few people on a few occasions have dared to express their opposition to two, at the very least, debatable wars by some minor actions against people who volunteered to join the armed forces. How absolutely undemocratic!
Perhaps the UK should abandon all commitment to freedom of expression and create the new totalitarian republic of Manningstan?
I really don't understand how you manage to persistently select actions you disapprove of and equate them to a national characteristic. Is it brain damage or are you simply so cynical that it has destroyed any semblance of common sense you may have once had?
Either way you appear to be turning into some kind of grumpy old man and not a little racist in your attitude towrds we Brits. Not bad for someone of your age...
4 - Media Tycoon
Where do I begin. Saying these people are anti-war insinuates that people not like them are pro-war. I know you don't mean it like that, but it can come across that way. I say that because I have always considered these types of anti-war folks as being childish. Anti-war adults who live in a democracy act with a little more class and purpose. Giving hell to some low level soldier because you are anti-war is like anti-Walmart groups going after individual workers who make minimum wage. It is nonsense and it taints the image of your cause.
5 - Joanne Huspek
I'm starting to think we are a stupid species. We don't learn from our mistakes, and so history repeats itself.
Sad.
6 - zingzing
ok... so you hear about it whenever a "squaddie..."
hold on. "squaddie?" that's a fuckin insult right there. sounds like a child's word for pooping.
back to it then...
so you hear about it whenever a soldier gets mistreated. now why do you think that is? is it because there's an overwhelming social stigma attached to being a soldier, a social stigma so strong that it leads to people being attacked in broad daylight!? with words!?
or do you think that the newspaper reports these things?
next time a soldier comes home and the headline reads, "soldier comes home--nothing happens," THAT is when you need to be worried. if this stuff stops being news, then you know something's really wrong.
i mean, come on. "you didn't get shot or anything?" how difficult is that. the man didn't have the pass that says he can get on for cheap. so he doesn't get on for cheap. it's like being a student or something. bring your damn card.
still, people should be nicer. you can always disagree with a war without getting all up in some hapless soldier's face about it. i mean, come on... they were the fools who got themselves involved. depending on what they've seen, it might fuck them up for life. they've got enough problems.
7 - Mark Edward Manning
So, Chris, essentially what you're saying is that it's not only perfectly understandable but perfectly acceptable to take your anti-war sentiment out by abusing those who volunteered to serve their country? That is the essence of democracy, is it? By abusing those who volunteer to protect your precious democratic right to rain abuse on those who slight your sensitivities?
And where the hell do you get this "Manningstan" business from? I didn't say these jack-asses should be hauled off the street and beaten. I mean, if these "peace and love" types want to risk getting arrested for assault, that's their business; they're free to do so. What I did was list the cases of abuse, disregard or ingratitude and commented on them, calling these people out for the sad, infantile pricks that they no doubt are.
If anyone's got a twisted sense of perspective here, it's you.
8 - Pablo
Wow, Mark has a bite! In your photo you look like such a nice sweet fella.
I hope that you are right about the righteous indignation of certain brits concerning the war, and militarization in general. I find it a very refreshing sign and hope this is not an anamolie.
It is indeed interesting to see Britain who gave birth to many of the fundamentals of freedom, due process, and anglo-american law, fall from grace as it is doing now. England is becoming the archetype of an orwellian total surveillance society. From the Magna Carta to a society that freely uses signs with the all-seeing eye of the police. My how you have fallen Britannia.
So I do find this sort of outrage against war particularly an unprovoked one, to be refreshing.
9 - Cindy D
"Teachers have voted to oppose military recruitment activities in schools if they employ "misleading propaganda".
Young people must be given a true picture of Army life, not a "marketised version", the National Union of Teachers conference heard."
Well, fuck them. Who the hell to teachers think they are demanding that students be allowed to make informed decisions.
What the hell is wrong with you Brits?
10 - Christopher Rose
Mark, with regard to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the military are not protecting my democratic right to do anything. If you want to try debating, you actually need to follow the bouncing ball, not just make stuff up.
What you actually did was seize upon a few rare actions and try to stack them up to form a soap box for you to throw out your pet peeves.
11 - EnglishChris
Nonsense. As a British expat living here in the USA and a former Royal Marine I can state categorically that, with the exception of the local Muslim population, the majority of the British Public hold all members of the British Armed Forces in the highest possible regard.
As far as the reporters sad attempts to mock the Royal Family don't forget that HM the Queen Elizabeth is the actual head of the British Armed Forces and that they swear loyalty to Her first and foremost (as opposed to the Government). HM The Queen is extremely popular amongst all the Armed Forces(and not just the British Forces either)!
I am sorry but I feel that this article reports simply one or two isolated incidents - certainly nothing to get ones knickers in a twist as the reporter attempts to portray it.
12 - Mark Edward Manning
C. Rose: "Mark, with regard to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the military are not protecting my democratic right to do anything."
Let me guess, Chris, you opposed the Falklands Islands War too, eh? (Or were you old enough back then?)
Chris, it's obvious to me that the right to abuse members of your country's fighting forces once they return home means a lot to you, so have at it. Spit at them all you like. Let me just state for the record that I never once said that no-one shouldn't be allowed to. All I said was that it's disgraceful, which it is.
And hey, perhaps if we're really lucky, the U.K. will become part of the new Caliphate in the very near future, because those wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were so inconsequential to your democratic rights. Allah akhbar!
13 - Mark Edward Manning
Pablo: "I hope that you are right about the righteous indignation of certain brits concerning the war, and militarization in general. I find it a very refreshing sign and hope this is not an anamolie."
Pablo, being anti-war is one thing. You may find that to be a refreshing attitude. But what I wrote about was not how awful it is that Britain is anti-war -- the British people have a long history of anti-war sentiment, it goes back centuries. Instead, I wrote about how awful it is that people here are taking their anti-war frustration out on their country's armed forces personnel.
Isn't it possible, as well as civil, to be anti-war yet support your troops? If you're saying it isn't, then that's not at all a refreshing attitude.
14 - Mark Edward Manning
EnglishChris: "Nonsense. As a British expat living here in the USA and a former Royal Marine I can state categorically that, with the exception of the local Muslim population, the majority of the British Public hold all members of the British Armed Forces in the highest possible regard."
First of all, sir, even if you disregard what I say in this article, I have respect for you for serving. Thank you for your service.
Secondly, it's interesting that you say only the local Muslim population is involved in squaddie-bashing. I don't dispute that a large percentage of the Muslim population is opposed to our military. However, in your honest opinion, do you think the perpetrators of the RAF abuse, the ticket inspector, and the hotelier were all Muslims?
15 - Pablo
Mark re 13
As I do not know anything about the legality under british law of sending troops to kill in another sovereign state that has not attacked Britain, my condemnation is slightly tempered at the moment. However here in the good ole u s of a the Iraq war is clearly a violation of the US constitution, and only congress can declare it. A resolution is not an act of congress, nor binding in any true legal sense. Which is why they used it. Bushie could have easily come before congress and asked for a declaration of war, but since he invented the unitary executive principle he was mearly trying to establish precedent for such action.
16 - Dr Dreadful
I'm late to the party, Mark, and anything I might constructively have said has been well expressed by RJ, Chris Rose, zing2 and (despite his throwaway racist line about Muslims) EnglishChris.
My father-in-law is one of the American vets who was spat on and called a baby-killer on his return from Vietnam. I've always thought it to be an infantile and unproductive way to protest.
I agree that most of the incidents you cited are deplorable - but they're also isolated. The majority of Brits do respect what the armed forces do - as witness the usually dignified observance of the two minutes' silence on November 11th, and the many services and ceremonies up and down the country on Remembrance Sunday. We just don't fetishize the military the way American culture does.