"As whites see their power and control over their lives declining, will they simply go quietly into the night?"
"In this society, will the present majority peaceably hand over its political power to a group that is simply more fertile? Can homo contraceptives compete with horno progenitivo if our borders aren't controlled? ... Perhaps this is the first instance in which those with their pants up are going to get caught by those with their pants down. As whites see their power and control over their lives declining, will they simply go quietly into the night? Or will there be an explosion?"This lovely quote comes from John Tanton, in an official (although private) memo written to other members of the group he founded, U.S. English, an anti-immigration group.…
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26 - Al Barger
That's right, Joe. If Mac Diva says that someone is an evil racist, then you should just assume that he is unless you can prove he's not. Now just shut up with this requesting evidence crap. Thank you.
27 - Joe
Yes, well, I'm chastened. Actually, I was willing to do a little work and when I didn't find anything, I returned to the source. So, while Brian says he never called AS a racist but did call him a member of a white supremacist group and you called SH a a eugenicist but are unwilling to provide any background, I just have to wonder, why do you expect people to take you seriously when you make serious allegations but don't back them up?
28 - Brian Flemming
Mac Diva,
A valiant effort. Sometimes it just doesn't pay to feed the trolls, does it?
29 - Joe
Ouch! Namecalling? I don't think you could characterize my behavior as particularly vindictive or abusive. I'm just asking questions, which, of course, you've failed to address.
30 - Eric Olsen
There may be plenty of reasons why Arnold is not qualified to be governor of the most populace state in the country, but I don't think racism is one of them. Obviously he should denounce Waldheim - I'm sure he will. And belonging to an organization that wants to tighten immigration laws does not make one a racist - the broader the brush, the more easily the paint washes off, or something.
31 - Dew
Sits on the board of an anti-immigrant group.
and where was Arnold born again?
Hypocrisy, the American way
32 - Brian Flemming
True, so if one defends Schwarzenegger by pretending that the brush is broader than it really is, one can avoid that pesky brush itself.
I have not alleged that Schwarzenegger himself is a racist. There is not enough evidence in the public record to support so strong a conclusion.
However, that does not mean there are not serious problems related to his willful association with John Tanton and Kurt Waldheim.
If Politician X were willfully associating with known child molesters, or say a group like NAMBLA, it would not be a defense of Politician X to say, "But Politician X himself is not a known child molester."
The association would matter. The implied expression of agreement and sympathy would matter.
Clearly, you understand this, Eric, because you write:
I guess we're in agreement on one thing, then--Schwarzenegger's association with Waldheim is a problem. Which was pretty much the main point of my post.
And, for me, it won't raise his credibility on this matter much if Schwarzenegger only denounces Waldheim after being dragged kicking and screaming to do it. This public figure has had a very, very, very long time to make such a statement in public. He clearly has made a conscious choice not to do so.
33 - Mac Diva
Take some truth serum, Joe. You obviously need to. Despite its relative newness, Google is up on the connection between racism and Hayakawa. Your claim otherwise is completely without a basis.
34 - Joe
I beg your pardon, I asked for info on a link to Hayakawa and eugenics which was in relation to your claim. You are providing a link for Hayakawa and racism. And while they're only different shades of ugly, don't really mean exactly the same thing.
35 - Joe
Compare and Contrast:
Statement A: "I have not alleged that Schwarzenegger himself is a racist"
Statement B: "Isn't there something perverse about a member of a white-supremacist group (with a well-known Nazi problem) appealing for the votes of California Hispanics?"
Um, ok...
36 - Mac Diva
Oh, stop nitpicking, Little Joe. Anyone with common sense knows the eugenics movement is a form of racism. So, searching 'Hayakawa + racism' is an obvious thing to do. It is revealing that you did not do it.
37 - Joe
Indeed it is, but the question I asked was pretty specific as was the statement you made. Forgive me for crediting you with the intellect to tell the difference.
38 - mike
Alright, you non-Arnoldians (that was pretty funny, Al), behave yourselves.
I saw a poll where Arnold is trailing a Democrat? How embarrassing for the Ripped One.
Let's see: Arnold favors abortion rights, gun control, (some) gay rights, and, according to his adviser, Warren Buffet, tax increases, including the repeal of Proposition 13 (yesterday's Wall Street Journal, front page). And the people defending him here are Republicans? What a great country. Maybe I won't move to Canada after all:)
I say let him win. What could possibly be the harm? His alleged racism notwithstanding (I think it's a bogus charge), he's a liberal's dream come true.
39 - Mac Diva
Mike, if Bustamante kicks Arnie's arse, I'm going to roll on the floor laughing. (And my floors are hardwood, not carpet.)
40 - Brian Flemming
It would not be inaccurate to say that Arnold Schwarzenegger is to the left of Howard Dean.
However, he isn't this liberal's dream come true. I'll take a competent centrist like Dean over an inexperienced, arrogant liberal like Arnold any day.
And it isn't really Schwarzenegger's "alleged racism" so much as his insensitivity. He supported Proposition 187, doesn't mind being connected with an organization led by a white supremacist, and praised and supported Waldheim well after Waldheim's Nazi associations were clearly documented.
California can't afford a chief executive so blind to racial issues.
And, speaking of insensivity, there is evidence to suggest Arnold turns on the charm only when the cameras are rolling. If he truly treats women the way that every indication suggests so far--and not just rumor and innuendo, but documented and even videotaped incidents--he's not the kind of person I want running the state government.
I'm not talking about a little hanky panky here and there. I could give a shit. I'm talking about routine degradation and public humiliation of women (as well as male underlings), and I know from experience that movie stars do often develop these kinds of behaviors, because they can, to a far greater degree than any politician could dream of doing.
There are real questions about Schwarzenegger that need to be answered. And we have less than 50 days to get the answers.
And he's not talking much.
41 - Joe
If it isn't the racism as much as the insensitivity than why isn't the post titled "Arnold Schwarzenegger insensitivity connection"? I personally view the CA recall as purely a source of entertainment, as I do the overheated responses to my comments. The reason I've posted here is because I felt you (and others) were getting a little sloppy with the facts or am curious for clarification, such as:
Is support for Proposition 187 directly correlated with racism?
Are you accusing the current or former leader of US English of racism, or both, or does it matter to you?
Did the UN ever formally repudiate Waldheim? If no, then why should it be required of anyone else? If yes, then what is the established standard for adequate repudiation?
Feel free to ignore my trying to engage you in actual civil discussion.
42 - Natalie Davis
This Washington Post piece talks about Ah-nuld and his connection to US English.
43 - Chris Arabia
1. When hispanics support repeal of bilingual education, are they committing racism against themselves?
2. If candidates should disavow racists, should Al Sharpton disassociate from himself?
3. If two people disagree about an immigration issue or a race issue, does the disagreement mean that by definition one of the people is anti-immigrant or racist?
4. When someone askes a specific question and the accusing parties fail to provide a specific answer, whether they change the subject or not, are the accusing parties conceding that they cannot answer?
44 - Brian Flemming
As whites see their power and control over their lives declining, will they simply go quietly into the night?
45 - Chris Arabia
There's Brian Flemming, failing as always to answer my questions.
Here's an example of answering a question:
As for your question, assuming the premises are valid, I'd say, if whites see a decline in their power relative to other groups as demographics shift, yes, most will accept the changing times.