Reducing the number of guns could conflict with the Second Amendment - it therefore needs to be repealed.
“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed” – Dana Perino, White House spokeswoman, about President Bush’s response to the slaughter of students by a gunman at Virginia Tech today.…
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— go to most recent comments376 - zingzing
vertouse. i'm sorry i insulted your sex life. ...it's very hard not to be obnoxious sometimes, and i am obviously feeling that way today.
anyway. do you really think that more than 1 in 10 adults who are outside of their homes right now are carrying guns? even the ones that work? last time i checked, most offices don't really like it when you bring your gun to work. also, "guesstimating" is exactly what the "+/-" after "90%" would imply, yeah?
377 - Derek
I dont care what you have to say you lot dont make any sence at all i have a A level in english who is going to listen to your country when your leader is bush i think saddam was a better leader the american dream i think i have walked onto elm street truth is a wonderful thing.
378 - zingzing
sense.
an A level.
end questions with question marks.
"the american dream i think" is a totally random phrase in this context.
you walked onto elm street? are you having a nightmare right now? are you asleep? that would explain some things.
what truth are you talking about?
379 - zingzing
also, i am not my country. if my country were talking to you, my country would have developed either a mouth or at least one finger, which would look grotesque on a country this size.
380 - vertroue
vertouse. i'm sorry i insulted your sex life. ...it's very hard not to be obnoxious sometimes, and i am obviously feeling that way today.
No problemo... and its actually vertroue. :)
anyway. do you really think that more than 1 in 10 adults who are outside of their homes right now are carrying guns? even the ones that work? last time i checked, most offices don't really like it when you bring your gun to work. also, "guesstimating" is exactly what the "+/-" after "90%" would imply, yeah?
The underlying idea is deterrent based on the thought that someone could be. Your right, alot of workplaces dont want firearms on the premises. Businesses also. But the penalties for carrying into a private place (non fed or school related) vary from state to state. In Minnesota for instance, You have to post a sign AND tell someone that you dont want firearms in your establishment. If someone persists, the cops get called and if you still wont leave its a $25 dollar fine. $25 bucks is a small price to pay for being safe. But I digress.....I have yet to see support that gun deaths are going down in no gun zones or that they are increasing in gun...ummm....happy zones? :) Gun okeedokee zones? If the bad guys feel the need to leave me alone because they think I'm carrying, or if I am carrrying and happen to be part of the 1.5 million instances EACH YEAR where its used in self defense, I'd say its worth it. There may be more or less than 1 in 10 folks armed, and I'll go out on a limb and say that there may be a significant difference between rural and urban areas, but again..... its the thought that counts.
381 - Paul2
I didn't claim that a nationwide gun ban would mean that there would be no more weapons, but significantly less weapons and that means less homicides overall. Of course there are also other reasons for violent crimes, but gun proliferation is obviously a very big cause of homicides.
Your chance of getting shot in the US is 60 times as high as in the UK. And with less guns, this figure would decrease significantly. And that means more safety for all.
382 - vertroue
"i have a A level in english "
School-ager?
383 - Derek
listen i dont need a english lesson from a amateur i am not doing a english test so i can write it how i like you dont get my sence of humer because you are from america you dont have one.
384 - zingzing
man, i am doing an english test right now! that english test pussy is so fine.
you have a "sence of humer?" i guess i don't have one of those. is it because i'm american? truthfully, i've never heard of a "sence of humer." is it a perfume? the best part of a vegetable? please inform me.
385 - Derek
what does school ager mean???? A level when your 16 in this country
386 - zingzing
vertroue, (and i copied and pasted that just to get it right,) i get the idea of criminals not knowing who is and isn't packing. kind of like israel not saying whether or not they have the bomb. i just wonder if the idea (and that's all it is) of personal safety is worth the reality of gun-related death in america.
387 - vertroue
I didn't claim that a nationwide gun ban would mean that there would be no more weapons, but significantly less weapons and that means less homicides overall. Of course there are also other reasons for violent crimes, but gun proliferation is obviously a very big cause of homicides.
PEOPLE are the biggest cause of homicides.
Fact: 20 percent of U.S. homicides occur in four cities with just 6 percent of the population - New York, Chicago, Detroit and Washington, D.C. - and each has a virtual prohibition on private handguns.
So, 1 in 5 murders in this nation occur where you, a private citizen, have little to no chance of getting a firearm legally....
388 - vertroue
Derek: what does school ager mean???? A level when your 16 in this country
It means your in school.
It speaks volumes.
389 - zingzing
derek... "school ager" means you are at an age when you are still in school, presumably pre-undergraduate studies. if you take a look at the words within the phrase, it actually makes a lot of "sence."
i think vertroue is letting you off the hook because you are still (and this is an assumption) still in the british equivalent of american high school. you may have taken and passed the english a-level... but that doesn't mean you have a firm grasp of the english language. in fact, i don't believe i've ever seen a native english speaker with a shakier sense of the language.
390 - vertroue
vertroue, (and i copied and pasted that just to get it right,) i get the idea of criminals not knowing who is and isn't packing. kind of like israel not saying whether or not they have the bomb. i just wonder if the idea (and that's all it is) of personal safety is worth the reality of gun-related death in america.
I believe it is because someone, somewhere always (whether its needed or not) feels the need to "build a better mousetrap". I dont want to see what that might be in my lifetime. I know that humans have been killing one another for nearly all of recorded history, but taking one of the current tools away wont stop folks who want to murder someone. Truthfully, I'd say can all firearms in the world if and only if you could erase there history of existance. Eliminate the tech advantage across the board and you might (ready for this one?) have a fair "shot".
I'm bad, I know.
And now for my selfish take on the situation:
personaly saftey vs. gun deaths overall in america?
Better them then me and mine. When I was younger and had very little to live for (I was immortal anyway right?), I wouldnt have cared. But with children in the mix, Personal safety becomes Familial safety. The world changes big time when you have kids...
Thanks for the chat today zingzing, it was good talking to ya...
391 - Derek
In america it would take your best students like over here to get a english A level so your pass rates four this level i would say only 1.5% of (your) students would manage to pass at this level even that % could be to high four your students
392 - Paul2
vertroue-
thats why a nationwide ban would make sense, if you can buy guns a couple blocks away it doesn't make any sense.
393 - zingzing
ahh, derek... you're welcome. for what, i don't know. but thank you for your kind words. i'm so sorry as well. what? yes. okay, we'll agree to disagree.
would you care to back up your claim with some facts, or did you pull that 1.5% out of your ass? you know you did...
that said, i'd be willing to bet 1.5 of your british pounds that i'd do better than you on said english a level.
vertroue-- i'm sure that having kids does change your perspective. i don't think (of course i'm not sure) that having kids will make me find having a gun around logical (it's a strange step to take in my mind), but i could be very, very wrong.
we shall see. if all that heroin hasn't totally killed my sperm.
394 - Paul2
Derek,
everybody makes mistakes-me too. I'm also no native speaker. Its good that your trying to learn another language. Some people never even attempt to do that. Calm down.
395 - zingzing
paul2, i dunno if you are being sarcastic or not (don't want to assume anything), but derek's FIRST language is english. that's why i'm bashing him so hard. if english was not his first language, it would be rather rude (not that it isn't anyway) to attack him so.
but when you write like derek does, then claim to have a 139 iq, make up things like a "sence of humer," then claim that not even 1.5% of americans could pass the same english proficiency test he did... you deserve to have your pants taken off.
396 - Derek
what can 3 dollers buy me in america zing zing you no i would be write if you put my statement to the test. fact not fiction
397 - Paul2
I wasn't being sarcastic.
I really didn't believe English is his first language, because the mistakes are so fundamental.
Maybe he's making all of this stuff up. Or he's very drunk.
398 - zingzing
i don't claim to know anything, but if you can pass it, i would bet more than 1.5% of american teenagers could pass it. maybe it would only be 5%... but still. come on.
for three bucks, you can buy yourself a 40 oz pbr. delish.
399 - Derek
dont wanna be a amrican idiot green day love that song should of gone to number 1
400 - zingzing
paul, you'd have to be pretty drunk to forget the fundamentals of your own language. like black-out drunk. i did ask earlier if derek was asleep and typing at the same time. it's possible that only part of his brain is currently functioning. shrug.
401 - Paul2
You're right.
And Derek, I believe it's time for you to get away from the computer straight to your bed.
402 - Derek
i dont think you can handle the (fact) that my brain is a lot bigger then yours people do say the truth hurts and looking at these comments i think they are right
403 - zingzing
if your brain is a lot bigger than mine, it must be swollen. brains don't really vary in size from human to human...
why is "fact" in parentheses? do you know what a parenthetical thought is?
do you think your english is okay? i'm not really here to question your intelligence... just your command of your mother tongue. (and no, i didn't just insult your mother.) (i insulted you.)
since all we have is our respective writing and your claims to a higher intelligence, and since those are currently unverifiable... and since we are going to have to consider the relative strengths of our writing as a test of intelligence, i would have to say that, based on the information at hand, I AM SMARTER THAN YOU. nyah.
404 - zingzing
this is the most fun i've had around here in a while... i gotta go smoke a cigarette... punctuate the satisfaction...
405 - Clavos
Chris #352,
A bit belated of me, but you obviously know very little about how drugs are smuggled into this country when you say this:
Clavos, please try and detect alcohol or drugs with x-rays or radar - or stuffing weapons inside one of your body cavities. This may help you notice the difference! ;-)
The vast majority of the drugs brought up from LatAm countries never get anywhere near a Customs official or X-ray machine. They are brought in literally by the plane and ship load.
By plane, they're landed in remote areas, like the Florida Keys and Everglades, unloaded, and the planes are often abandoned right where they sit. There's so much money in the business, that the smugglers can afford to buy (or sometimes steal) aircraft for one-way flights, and still amke money.
They're smuggling TONS of drugs, Chris. The puny amounts that the mules bring in by swallowing condoms or in luggage are infinitesimal in the big picture. And the government freely admits they're nailing no more than 10% of it.
By ship, the vessel comes up from South America, then cruises up the USA east coat, stopping periodically out on the high seas. Smugglers come out from shore in ultra high speed go-fast boats, take on a load, and sprint back in. Again, the boats are often abandoned once they reach shore and have been unloaded.
It would be child's play to smuggle guns into this country, my friend.
You also say:
I didn't say anything about weapons being turned in so the rest of your remark doesn't get us anywhere.
True, you didn't. But, with 300 million guns already here, what difference will outlawing (or restricting) them make?
406 - Andy Marsh
I'm wondering...what are we considering drugs here...because right now, I'm in a part of the country where you can literally get in more trouble for jaywalking than smoking a joint...and like they say...as goes california...so goes the country...eventually anyway!
407 - Derek
Im back i want to get back to the point about the mass murder in america what disturbs me the most about this is that his flatmate could not even talk to him once he just needed someone to talk to its ok saying it was wrong but that does not solve the problem if he was known to have mental health problems there should be someone there he can turn to before it got to that stage.
408 - STM
Charles wrote: "Paul, Is it your intention to take guns away from law abiding citizens so the only guns left are in the nads of those who break the law?"
Lol. I realise it's just a typo Charles but it's hilarious for me ... "nads" means something here ... like "the bastard kicked me in the nads". I hope there won't be any guns in anyone's nads. Could be painful ...
409 - STM
Andy wrote: "STM - how do you feel when you hear our pols spew that we are in this fight alone...just curious..."
Well, you obviously aren't. The British have committed a fair number of troops to Iraq, and quite a few to Afghanistan. We have less than the British in Iraq, but the government announced recently here that its was sending ANOTHER 400 of our special forces soldiers to Afghanistan.
Besides, "the war on terror" is not just shoot 'em up stuff. It's really about police forces and law enforcement agencies combining worldwide to track these guys down, foil their plans, and arrest them before they can do their damge. Or failing, that afterwars. You probably don't realise that Jemaah Islamiya, the Asian offshoot of al-Qeada, specifically targeted Australians in the 2002 Bali bombings (82 Aussies killed in Kuta) and that they blew up the Australian Embassy in Jakarta.
So no, your're not in it alone. The people who blew up up the trains and buses in London were al-Qaeda affiliates as well. I don't like George Bush's name "war on terror" applied to Iraq, because that's been about somethinmg else, but there's no doubt there's a global terror network intent on getting ALL of us, not just you.
410 - STM
Dave Nalle wrote: "All of whom are prohibited from purchasing a firearm."
Dave, you yourself told me here recently that if you want to buy a second-hand gun in a private sale, in many states there are no background checks. You just go off and pay the money, and voila! you're a gun owner.
Stricter controls are a must.
411 - STM
Jack* ... I might be barking up the tree here but, just a question. Why do you see ANY criticism of America - constructive or otherwise - as an attack on America? Just wondering.
And why do you assume that because someone like me has an opinion on guns, that amounts to me agitating to have your precious guns taken away? Do you not see that the very freedoms you hold so dear also allow other people to hold these opinions.
This is a US-based website after all, so perhaps you could agitate for the repeal of the 1st amendment whilst others in America are calling for the repeal of the 2nd. Here's my bet too: I bet you'd love to see the 16th gone.
Also, why do think many people around the world see some Americans as both arrogant and ignorant? Notice I used the word "some".
And next time you use the word supposedly in relation to what I might have seen or haven't seen, perhaps you should just take that on face value, as even you would probably be shocked by it. I am not anonymous here, so I'm hiding nothing - you, however, have chosen to remain anonymous. Tell us who you are, and a bit about your background, so we can get to understand you a bit better.
412 - Derek
It reminds me a little of the film carrie who do you feel sorry four the killer or the victims it was a wrong thing four him to do but i think he was treat like a outcast and sometimes it back fires on bullys im not saying he killed the bullys but the bullys also put them at risk even if they were not the ones doing the bullying he did not see it has wrong who ever he killed.
413 - Derek
You want to check my comments on Caesar if you want anwsers i love to make people think its my purpose in life thankyou god four making me what everyone else wants to be sometimes its not easy being me you have to live up to a lot.
414 - Derek
And revy i was beeing sarcastic when i said you knew what happened to Caesar i hope you knew that.
415 - Derek
You say you dont want people to judge you four all having the same opinions it hard when you never disagree with one a other i want to here views that i will learn something from but so far i have not heard anything fresh starting from now let me here something new.
416 - Andy Marsh
STM - maybe you're not the crazy Aussie I thought you were....
417 - Andy Marsh
...but then again....
418 - STM
Lol. I am a mad Aussie Andy.
419 - Derek
smoking can damage the sperm and decreases fertility.
420 - STM
Nalle wrote: "Christopher, if there were a situation where the government became oppressive enough to require overthrow by force of arms".
Dave, I'm asking a serious question here. Why, as a citizen of a country that has its whole raison d'etre in centuries of the rule of law and the contract that gives government some control and the people some freedoms (and more specifically those of the past 200 years), would you think that its grand institutions in this regard would not protect its citizens.
I do not see, given the wonderful institutions of law and democracy upon which the US is founded, that this situation could ever arise - even if the 2nd amendment is repealed (which it won't be, in our lifetimes).
I respect your views because they're reasoned and not personal attacks, but I think you are making awfully big assumptions here.
Although I was revving up a few maddies on here in regard to the anglosphere, I have recently become a convert to that way of thinking - that our countries all share a similar regard for rule of law and democratic government (in slightly different forms) as a contract in what amounts to an exchange that prizes personal liberties above all.
When you look at how the countries of the anglosphere have prospered, it is our institutions that have stopped us all from becoming versions of South American republics or Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia or Saddam's Iraq.
I don't see the US ever going down that path, so I would be interested in your views.
421 - STM
Derek said: "smoking can damage the sperm and decreases fertility."
Possibly, but, fu.k it's great taking that first big drag ...
422 - Jack Burton
Jack* ... I might be barking up the tree here but, just a question. Why do you see ANY criticism of America - constructive or otherwise - as an attack on America? Just wondering.
That is a strawman argument Stan. Find where I have ever said that any criticism of America is an attack on America. I criticize the country, it's leaders, and it's policies quite often myself and I'm not "attacking" the country.
But a criticism based on falsehood or misunderstanding is a bogus criticism and needs to be pointed out. Most of your statements about American and what you don't like about it fall into one of those two categories.
And why do you assume that because someone like me has an opinion on guns, that amounts to me agitating to have your precious guns taken away?
Stan, Stan, Stan... have you not posted multiple times in multiple places that certain guns that you happen to not like should be banned and not available to the public? Is not not "agitating to have your precious guns taken away"?
You can't have it both ways. If you want some guns taken away then you want guns taken away. It's really simple.
Do you not see that the very freedoms you hold so dear also allow other people to hold these opinions.
That's a statement equivilent to styrofoam. You might as well post "ting tang, walla walla bing bang." (props to Jonah Goldberg)
Of course you have the freedom. And I have the freedom to point out that your freedom leads you to post stupid stuff. Shall we continue this dance down the road?
This is a US-based website after all, so perhaps you could agitate for the repeal of the 1st amendment whilst others in America are calling for the repeal of the 2nd. Here's my bet too: I bet you'd love to see the 16th gone.
As I posted much ealier, the shooting community loves the First Amendment because it allows us to spot the idiots amoung us.
And what has the 16th got to do with anything. That is a complete non sequitor. Why not ask me how I feel about horsemeat for lunch. It is just as germane.
Also, why do think many people around the world see some Americans as both arrogant and ignorant? Notice I used the word "some".
(Some) people always have problems with their much more successful younger brother who has the good job, the sports car, and the good looking girl. Somehow because the sluggard brother who wasted his life is upset that means the younger brother is at fault?
I am not anonymous here, so I'm hiding nothing - you, however, have chosen to remain anonymous. Tell us who you are, and a bit about your background, so we can get to understand you a bit better.
And you probably have not had very angry extremists show up at your doorstep (amazing how these people who say they are against violence can become violent when they get upset).
I'm in my mid fifties, married to the same wonderful girl for 34 years. We met in, and spent 25 years together active and reserve military duty. Spent of lot of time overseas for them.
I've got my MA in Communications and have worked around the country in the business. Worked in DC for a while where I got to know some pretty important and highly placed brand name people.
Now I'm the Midwest Regional Dirctor for a large marketing company, running a sales force in five states.
My health is good but the physical frame is breaking down faster than I'd like. As per your "story" of taking the knife away from two young hoods I have lost about half the strength in my hands and arms from a heriated neck disk. I just don't do the chop socky anymore.
That's why I am probably going to have switch my guns from semiauto to wheelguns. I can't hardly manage the chambering anymore.
423 - Jack Burton
I'm asking a serious question here. Why, as a citizen of a country that has its whole raison d'etre in centuries of the rule of law and the contract that gives government some control and the people some freedoms (and more specifically those of the past 200 years), would you think that its grand institutions in this regard would not protect its citizens.
Perhaps it is precisely because a significant part of the "rule of law" is the right of the average citizen to protect his rights as a personal effort and not to depend upon others to do so for him.
The grand institutions have a preference for survival, after all. Why give a polulace any reason for asserting in a more direct way that the "institutions" serve at the pleasure of the people and not the other way around.
I do not see, given the wonderful institutions of law and democracy upon which the US is founded, that this situation could ever arise - even if the 2nd amendment is repealed (which it won't be, in our lifetimes).
I don't see it either but that doesn't mean it's not going to happen. I take care to ensure that my house won't burn down but I still have a fire extinguisher close by.
Although I was revving up a few maddies on here in regard to the anglosphere, I have recently become a convert to that way of thinking - that our countries all share a similar regard for rule of law and democratic government (in slightly different forms) as a contract in what amounts to an exchange that prizes personal liberties above all.
Compare and contrast with countries that were settled from Spain. Drives my hispanic friends crazy when I say that.
And yes, the anglosphere shares some very important influences -- amoung them the right of the citizen to address, and if necessary, bring the government to heel by force. That knowledge tends to keep governments reasonable which in turn keeps very reasonable citizens. Both reinforce the other in our cultures.
When you look at how the countries of the anglosphere have prospered, it is our institutions that have stopped us all from becoming versions of South American republics or Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia or Saddam's Iraq.
No. It is the fact that the institutions answer to the citizens... not the institutions themselves.
I don't see the US ever going down that path, so I would be interested in your views.
I can see the possiblity. But I don't have time to expand on it here.
424 - Jack Burton
This professor well understands and responds to Paul and his ilk.
Los Angeles Times
425 - STM
Jack, thanks for the reasoned response, old boy ... I think ... but seriously, I appreciate seeing your ideas without feeling like each discourse means someone is verbally copping it up the blurter.
Perhaps we should agree to disagree. As I've pointed out before (as have you), mine are opinions, and points for debate - and not likely to result in any laws changing in the US as I'm not a US citizen.
I am simply using my own experience to present an alternative viewpoint. I am not an anti-gun nut, or an extremist, nor a wet "liberal" in the American sense. I'm also not anti-American.
But I notice Nallie hasn't answered here, though. Possibly he's been holding out against the stray dogs that regularly terrorise the compound ...
I am interested in what he has to say.