Take heed, Malkin! You too, Rush! Your McCarthy Moments are on the way.
Elizabeth Edwards is my new heroine!…
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Ann the C's McCarthy Moment - Comments Page 3
Take heed, Malkin! You too, Rush! Your McCarthy Moments are on the way.
Elizabeth Edwards is my new heroine!…
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— go to most recent comments76 - troll
Saudi Arabia
77 - Zedd
RJ
Would it be possible for you to stop with the "Left" stuff. Is it possible for you to evaluate a situation with out putting it on a nonexistent boggy man.
78 - Clavos
"Whether they volunteered into the military or they were drafted, your choice forces them to put their lives on the line."
1. Nobody in the current military was drafted. The draft ended 34 years ago.
2. People who don't want to put their lives on the line shouldn't volunteer for the military; that's what the military is for. Common sense.
And don't tell me about the gullibility and stupidity of 18 year olds. In the 60s, plenty of 18 year olds CHOSE not to go into the military (when there was a draft) by a variety of means.
I would bet that a hell of a lot of the troops in Iran would take exception to your characterization.
SFCSKI: any input?
79 - Zedd
Clavos
I would bet that a hell of a lot of the troops in Iran would take exception to your characterization
It doesn't change the validity of the statement. They did not decide to go to THAT ridiculous war. They are trained and actually brain washed to want to engage in the activities that they are assigned to perform. As a mature man, you know this (or should). We mature adults train them to want to do those tasks. There is nothing telling about their desire to perform. We need for them to be brain washed to that end.
If the military consisted of older more rational people, many people would walk away if things got ridiculous. We know better. The kids don't.
80 - Clavos
First, I retract my typo in #79. The troops, of course, are in Iraq; at least for now.
"It doesn't change the validity of the statement. They did not decide to go to THAT ridiculous war. They are trained and actually brain washed to want to engage in the activities that they are assigned to perform. As a mature man, you know this (or should). We mature adults train them to want to do those tasks. There is nothing telling about their desire to perform. We need for them to be brain washed to that end."
First, when you join the military, you don't get to pick what wars you'll fight in.
Second, with the high proportion of NG and Reserve troops engaged in this war, the proportion of 18 year olds is much lower than in say, Vietnam. According to military sources, the average age of the casualties is 29.
"If the military consisted of older more rational people, many people would walk away if things got ridiculous."
Fortunately for the US, you're not running the military.
You can't "walk away if things got ridiculous," while you're in the military, Zedd. How would you like to be in a firefight, depending on your buddy to have your back, only to hear him (or her) say, "the hell with this, it's ridiculous; I'm outta here."
No military in the history of the world could or ever has operated that way.
Stick to your social science and anthropology, Zedd. You don't know beans about the military, or warfare.
81 - STM
I think too many here are missing the point (especially Zedd).
There is no doubt the US is engaged in a war. That it's different to anything its know before is the frightening thing. I think the discovery of the bombs in Londo and ther targetting of schoolkids on the first day of holidays in Glasgow should bring that point home even to you Zedd.
These people aren't interested in anything other than killing us. They don't want to talk, they don't want to negotiate.
They are just murderers. The British are probably handling it slightly differently this week, as they have seen it all before - years of terror bombings by the IRA have hardened their resolve not to be intimidated. Frighterned, maybe, intimidated, no. The problem with these aresholes is that they don't understand that the more they do this, the more people are determined not to give an inch. The old story about flies, honey and vinegar holds true here too.
I still will never understand why the fallback position has to be that we are in the wrong.
I see it otherwise. These pricks have forfeited their right to any kind of human or civil consideration. And like I say, even other muslims hate them.
As for mr's little story about UK muslims becoming radicalised because of the oppression they are subjected to in Britain ... bollocks. The British govt bends over backwards to accommodate them, and human rights is possibly even more of an issue in the UK than it is the US.
But the trouble with bending over backwards is that too often, those you're bending over for see that as an excuse to make sure you cop it up the clacker.
82 - Clavos
It's quite significant, too, that 6 of the 8 caught in England are physicians or medical students.
That people who are in the medical profession can violate its most basic tenet, to "do no harm," is a strong indicator of just how fanatical these people can be.
There is also the point that they worked in hospitals, where people who are victims of terrorism are sent to recover. How would one like to have their badly mangled body worked on by an associate of the guy who caused the mangling?
Lastly, these bastards put the lie to the idea that terrorist bombers are terrorists because poor, oppressed desperate and marginalized victims. These people, by virtue of their profession, were at the very pinnacle of any society on earth.
83 - Zedd
STM
Guess what, they say the same thing about us.
The truth is, we don't want to talk to them and yes we have killed thousands of their people (perhaps a little more than two bombings?).
No one gets to be the good guys in this Stan.
They see it the same way, we have forfeited our right to any kind of human or civil consideration.
So what happens now.
84 - Dave Nalle
Zedd, there's the fundamental problem you keep demonstrating. Sure we both think the other side is evil and our side is the side of good. The thing is, when you apply objective standards - like who deliberately tries to kill innocents - they're still evil and while we may be less than entirely competent, we're still not evil.
Dave
85 - STM
Zedd: "Guess what, they say the same thing about us."
Do they Zedd? Are you sure about that?
The ones I speak to don't feel that way. And I suppose that those who do feel that way are just wrong. History's in our favour when it comes to the truth of all this, not theirs.
86 - Dave Nalle
Stan, I'm sure the al Qaeda recruiters who promise the moon to unemployed, illiterate yemeni laborers lay it on pretty thick about the 'Great Satan'.
Dave
87 - Dr Dreadful
STM chews up mr's little story about UK muslims becoming radicalised because of the oppression they are subjected to in Britain and spits it out.
Quite right too. Muslims in Britain do (and always have) suffered from oppression in the form of racism, both knee-jerk* and institutionalized - but no more and no less than any other non-white group. Yet you don't see Rastafarians or Sikhs blowing themselves and others up because of it.
*Jerk being the operative word.
88 - Dave Nalle
Now Dr. D. We all know why Rastafarians don't blow themselves or anyone else up.
Dave
89 - Zedd
Dave,
Its nearly impossible for anyone to see themselves as evil. There is always a good reason for doing things that others consider evil. What Bush and Co did to get us to go to war in Iraq is evil. Hundreds of thousands of people are dead Dave. They knew that there would be innocent casualties but they proceeded for whatever reason. It wasn't to fight terror. I presume it was to spread our version of freedom to that part of the world. That is no different than what they want to do accept they haven't killed nearly as many people. They truly feel as if they are doing good. They believe that they are working to safe the world. Off course we feel differently than they do, their thinking is crazy. But Bush's thinking is/was crazy to some others diabolical.
90 - Zedd
Stan,
My comment is not about your average Muslim. Applying that statement to an entire group and culture of divers people would be ignorant and bigoted.
I was talking about the extremists who deploy these bombs. They believe they are doing good. They see what they do as a necessary evil to reach their goal of ridding the world of our evil. Much like we feel about them in our war on terror. Just as they attack the innocent, we have killed hundreds of thousands of the innocent in Iraq and will continue to do so over decades with the toxic residuals of this war.
91 - Zedd
Clavos,
You took my comment out of context.
When I said that if the military consisted of older adults, they would walk out when things got ridiculous, I meant that it takes the mind of a young person to comply because they don't know what matters yet. You and I (I hope) roll our eyes a lot at the goings on in society because we know better. We cant be convinced of silly notions about the world because of our knowledge and experiences. Older people would revolt and question the lucidity of orders that were based on the ridiculous. We wouldn't be scared at basic training just because someone is yelling at us. We would get what they are trying to do and just simply go along without the fear and intimidation that the young kids experience.
I have read that the average age of FIGHTING military men in Iraq is between 19 and 21. Perhaps you are averaging in the generals, doctors and other older non combat active personnel.
92 - RJ
The truth is, we don't want to talk to them and yes we have killed thousands of their people (perhaps a little more than two bombings?).
No one gets to be the good guys in this Stan.
They see it the same way, we have forfeited our right to any kind of human or civil consideration.
Wow.
Taking the side of the enemy. Nice.
93 - RJ
"We wouldn't be scared at basic training just because someone is yelling at us."
I'm pretty sure EVERYONE is more than a little bit scared in boot camp, regardless of their age. DIs tend to be a bit severe, amiright?
94 - REMF
"Is war a personal choice?"
- Zedd
"Nope. It's a national choice."
- RJ Elliott
I agree with Zedd on this one. Since there's no draft, it boils down to a personal choice of whether to enlist and take part in the action, or stay home and be a cheerleader from the sidelines.
- MCH
95 - Clavos
"I agree with Zedd on this one. Since there's no draft, it boils down to a personal choice of whether to enlist and take part in the action"
Except that's not what she said.
She said that youngsters are lured into the service, and once they've signed up, they're scared and brainwashed into going into action.
And she said that this is possible because they're young and naive; that this couldn't happen with older recruits.
96 - Zedd
RJ
As a forty plus year old, you wouldn't (or shouldn't) be afraid of a 30yr old yelling at you. You may be afraid of what is ahead (rigorous excercise, etc) but you wouldn't be intimidated by some kid who you know cant do any physical harm to you.
18yr olds are scared for a number of reasons. Its their first time out of the house. They don't know what life has in store for them. They are still frightened by authority figures. They don't know what is BS and what isn't. They are kids.
97 - REMF
I disagree Zedd, I know that he WOULD be afraid.
98 - Zedd
Clavos
You should ask yourself why you have a need to belittle what I say.
You restated what I said out of context. Why?
99 - Clavos
Sorry if you thought I was "belittling" what you said, Zedd. I actually thought I re-phrased it pretty accurately and fairly; it wasn't my intention to belittle your thoughts.
The why is because the MF, IMO, was misrepresenting what you HAD said.
100 - sr
DO THEY HAVE A 4TH OF JULY IN THE UK?
101 - STM
sr: "DO THEY HAVE A 4TH OF JULY IN THE UK?"
The deaf posts are on another story sr.
And yes, they do have a July 4 in the UK. I think they just go to work though, and then get on the piss afterwards, usually as a mark of sorrow for the dreadful mistake of their American cousins.
No barbecues though. After they've been to the pub, they simply stop for a kebab with garlic dressing or chips with vindaloo sauce on the way home.
102 - Christopher Rose
Actually, the British calendar now goes from July 3rd straight to July 5th. Tony Blair introduced it as a sop to the British public for supporting the war in Iraq!
103 - Clavos
LOL, Chris!
104 - Dave Nalle
The Brits do even better than July 4th. They celebrate Guy Fawkes day which honors an attempt to assassinate their entire government. Now there's something worth shooting off some fireworks over.
Dave
105 - Christopher Rose
Actually, Guy Fawkes Day, which is on November 5th, celebrates the failure of a treasonous Catholic plot to overthrow the British Government and kill King James 1 by blowing up the Houses of Parliament.
We build bonfires and burn effigies of Guy Fawkes, bake potatoes and let off fireworks and a good time is had by all.
The one thing Guy Fawkes day does not is honour an attempt to assassinate the government. Just thought that important nuance was worth pointing out, Dave...
106 - REMF
Here's what Zedd really said, Clavvy:
"What he is saying is that there should be some accountability; if one expresses war as an option, he should be willing to go to war himself; he should be willing to give up his OWN life." (#58)
"You see when you elect people who will vote for war because you support a war, you are FORCING others to engage in war. Whether they volunteered into the military or they were drafted, your choice forces them to put their lives on the line." (#74)
Much different than the partisan spin you put on her words.
- MCH
107 - REMF
"Let's test MCH's "logic" -
No one can support abortion unless they have performed one themselves...
Thoughts?"
- RJ
It depends on what you mean by "support." Certainly rhetoric does not constitute support.
- MCH
108 - Dave Nalle
Christopher, I think my interpretation of Guy Fawkes day puts it in a much more appropriate light given how a lot of Brits feel about their government.
Dave
109 - Maurice
#104 LOL!
110 - Zedd
Doc
Do you know we celebrated Guy Fawkes day in SA? We celebrated it like we celebrate Halloween here. We dressed in costumes (typically our parents clothes with massive padding in the right places and drawn mustaches for the guys). We'd go from house to house asking for money instead of candy, singing the Guy Fawkes song and rattling our tin cups with change in them.
I don't know if they still celebrate it since independence.
111 - sr
Christ like Doc you are a funney guy. Must admit your
112 - STM
Let's give new meaning to paradox: Isn't it strange that in a strongly Catholic country down the other end of the Earth and about as far away from Britain as you can get, that was half-settled by disenfranchised, politicised Irishmen, and which takes more delight in the beating of the English at cricket and rugby (we have a lot of delight :) than it did on the surrender of Japan, we still have a Union Jack on our flag, Queen Elizabeth is still our head of state (but not our head of government) and we celebrate the Queen's Birthday as our fireworks night.
Guy Fawkes doesn't even rate a mention, except in the school history books. Perhaps the real story is that the early colonial governments didn't want to give any Irishmen any new ideas. Not like they need any, either ...
113 - REMF
Re #68;
"I just happen to support winning it."
I'm curious...just what exactly does that mean?
- MCH
114 - RJ
I realize that I've mentioned this before, and I also realize that [Edited. Please don't do that, RJ] MCH, aka REMF does not care about these facts, but for those who don't already know and/or who do actually care, here are the vision standards that disqualify one from joining the US military:
c. Refractive error (hyperopia (367.0), myopia (367.1), astigmatism, (367.2)), in any spherical equivalent of worse than -8.00 or + 8.00 diopters; if ordinary spectacles cause discomfort by reason of ghost images or prismatic displacement; or if corrected by orthokeratology or keratorefractive surgery. However, for entrance into a military academy or ROTC programs, the following conditions are disqualifying:
(1) Astigmatism, all types over 3 diopters.
(2) Hyperopia over 8.00 diopters spherical equivalent.
(3) Myopia over 6.75 diopters spherical equivalent.
(4) Refractive error corrected by orthokeratology or keratorefractive surgery.
d. Contact lenses. Complicated cases requiring contact lenses for adequate correction of vision, such as corneal scars (371) and irregular astigmatism (367.2).
My myopia is worse than -8.00 in both eyes, and I also have irregular astigmatism in both eyes. I cannot see all that great with glasses, although I can see pretty well with contact lenses. Unfortunately, those contact lenses are toric, and have to be special-made, so they take over a week to be delivered, and cost about $300 per pair.
And, yes, I've looked into LASIK eye surgery. But unfortunately my corneas are not thick enough to allow me to be a candidate to undergo this procedure.
So, I cannot join the military. If I tried, they would not accept me. But I still support the troops and the war they are fighting, unlike some.
115 - REMF
"If I tried, they would not accept me."
So you haven't even tried yet?
I served with plenty of guys who wore glasses, including myself. I remember this one guy from Maine whose glasses were so thick they looked like the bottom of Coke bottles.
116 - gonzo marx
Coulter , wrong on history.
just one example of just how far removed form the Facts this person is
Excelsior!
117 - Clavos
"I served with plenty of guys who wore glasses, including myself. I remember this one guy from Maine whose glasses were so thick they looked like the bottom of Coke bottles."
Gee, what a shame!
You guys weren't able to enjoy the full beauty of all that gorgeous Hawaiian scenery.
Ah, the sacrifices you made for your country, MF!
118 - STM
Cruel Clav, cruel ...
I must say, as a surfer I'd have much preferred Hawaii than Vietnam. You'd actually get bragging rights out of it in my crew. You'd be a hero, actually. (Govt pays surfer to spend two years riding world's best waves while mates go to Vietnam)
That surf scene in Apocalypse Now was a crock ... it was a break in the Philippines, where they filmed the movie, and just an average one at that.
119 - REMF
"Cruel Clav, cruel ..."
- STM
Not in the least, STM. I enlisted during time of war and served my full hitch where ordered (without Deserting).
And although my service was lackluster and mediocre, it's still more than staying home and writing macho war slogans and calling anyone opposed to the war a "commie" or a "pinko."
- MCH
120 - Clavos
"Not in the least, STM. I enlisted during time of war and served my full hitch where ordered..."
What a noble guy!
True salt of the earth, you are, MF.
BTW, did you ever volunteer for "Veetnam" (as lunkhead LBJ called it)?
121 - REMF
"BTW, did you ever volunteer for "Veetnam" (as lunkhead LBJ called it)?"
No, I did not, as I've said before 500 times.
And yourself?
122 - Clavos
Didn't have to; slick Sam took care of that for me.
123 - Clavos
In fact, my CO in Basic (whom I had asked to sign off on my absentee ballot) told me if I voted for Goldwater, I'd end up in VN.
I did. And I did.
Wonder if that Lt. had something to do with that?
124 - sr
Drop the Veetnam shit. It is disrespectful to all who served and almost the 60,000 who gave their all. It's Vietnam or Nam. It may not offend you but it offends me. Now feel free to say fuckoff sr. Think I will visit with my best friend Capt Morgan. See ya in a bit.
125 - Clavos
sr:
It offends me, too. Particularly because the guy who sent me there, LBJ the Loser, pronounced it that way.
That's why I occasionally use it here; to make a point.
I won't tell you to fuck off, because I really don't care what you think about it.