That fraud would be an integral part of so expansive and thoroughgoing government program as Medicare is a proposition that only the most naive would dispute. So perhaps it would be of greater interest to everyone concerned to discuss ways of eliminating it rather than quibble over the actual levels.
29 -
Bliffle
Jun 17, 2009 at 6:34 pm
The question you have to ask is: "why do these scandals always revolve around supposed Medicare fraud?"
Why do we not see these articles about the PRIVATE insurance system which is several times bigger? Can it be that there is NO fraud in the private system?
Since the private insurance system serves many more people, one might conclude that scandals in the private system would be of even greater interest. But instead we see these flimsily evidenced scandals about Medicare. And if one pursues the Medicare incidents they usually lead to a successful prosecution against fraudsters.
Could it be because the Medicare case concerns taxpayer money? But the money scandals in the Iraq Invasion financing are even bigger and were met with a big yawn by the public.
IMO the scandals about Medicare are planted by the private insurance companies to put Medicare in a bad light, the better to lobby against the 'public option' in congress.
Does that not make sense?
30 -
Clavos
Jun 17, 2009 at 7:41 pm
IMO the scandals about Medicare are planted by the private insurance companies to put Medicare in a bad light, the better to lobby against the 'public option' in congress.
So what happened to this, bliffle:
But I'll continue to investigate and dig upe REAL citations and REAL quotes from REAL people.
31 -
Bliffle
Jun 18, 2009 at 9:34 am
I'm still digging, and so far every lead goes to a successful prosecution (usually by the FBI) for a few millions, but nothing to justify the billions and billions that some folks claim.
Correct, Jeannie. As I said in #28, fraud runs supreme, especially when there's money to be made given the unholy alliance between business and government. It's got to be broken.
35 -
Clavos
Jun 18, 2009 at 10:41 am
Scrushy defrauded helthSouth and its investors, not Medicare.
Bliffle and have been discussing Medicare fraud specifically.
36 -
Bliffle
Jun 18, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Why not discuss the private sector health insurance as well, especially since most people are more affected by the private system than by medicare.
37 -
Bliffle
Jul 13, 2009 at 10:58 am
My question still stands: why is it not MORE important to discuss private healthcare fraud than medicare fraud since 4 or 5 times as many people are affected?
There's much more money at stake so fraud is even more important.
Are you trying to sweep it under the rug?
38 -
David Lee
Jul 21, 2009 at 6:53 pm
It's boils down to the simple fact that the Americn people cannot trust the President and those in Congress that support the passage of a universal or national health care program that it will function as they project. The cost alone is reason enough to see it not pass. Once passed, the government will spend whatever additional tax payers' dollars necessary to try and make it work. We're hearing that some in Congress do not fully know what's in the proposed legislation and exactly how it will work. The Americn people should be extremely alarmed at the prospect that the government will end up deeply involved in this aspect of our lives. The medical community and the health insurance companies need to accept the fact that reform is needed and commit to address those areas of our health care system that will bring down costs and insure that every American (not illegals) have access to affordable insurance. dlee
39 -
Bliffle
Jul 21, 2009 at 7:45 pm
There's only one way to make the medical system work for everyone: put EVERY US citizen in the same pool. Allow no one to be excluded. To some limited extent you can allow purchase of supplemental insurance for people who can afford it, but that must be limited else supplemental will become huge (perhaps) while universal shrinks to token size.
We don't need to MANDATE health insurance purchase (indeed, it's probably unconstitutional since mandates mean every American is born owing money to the insurance monopoly, a return to slavery) because we already have a system for collecting money from wage-earners and capitalists called "Income Tax". that is much better than Indentured Servitude.
We have systems in place for assessing taxes and collecting them, there is no need for an entire "mandate" system, too. Odious as taxes are, we have systems in place for them, and they are subject to the will of voters.
The federal government must administer the program, decide payment for providers, services for recipients, etc. They will probably employ traditional insurance company employees as bookkeepers, accountants and actuarials, but decisions must be made above that level. Insurance contractors cannot determine client policies.
Doctors and other providers may be included on a salary basis or a for-fee basis, depending on opportunities that the Feds make available and which providers want to signup for which compensation plan.
Article comments
26 - Bliffle
I just pointed out that your own claims do not justify your conclusions.
27 - Clavos
I just pointed out that your own claims do not justify your conclusions.
While simultaneously admitting that the level of fraud is likely in the tens of billions:
Of course, if you pick the 3% figure you only get about $16billion.
"Only"[???]
meh.
28 - roger nowosielski
That fraud would be an integral part of so expansive and thoroughgoing government program as Medicare is a proposition that only the most naive would dispute. So perhaps it would be of greater interest to everyone concerned to discuss ways of eliminating it rather than quibble over the actual levels.
29 - Bliffle
The question you have to ask is: "why do these scandals always revolve around supposed Medicare fraud?"
Why do we not see these articles about the PRIVATE insurance system which is several times bigger? Can it be that there is NO fraud in the private system?
Since the private insurance system serves many more people, one might conclude that scandals in the private system would be of even greater interest. But instead we see these flimsily evidenced scandals about Medicare. And if one pursues the Medicare incidents they usually lead to a successful prosecution against fraudsters.
Could it be because the Medicare case concerns taxpayer money? But the money scandals in the Iraq Invasion financing are even bigger and were met with a big yawn by the public.
IMO the scandals about Medicare are planted by the private insurance companies to put Medicare in a bad light, the better to lobby against the 'public option' in congress.
Does that not make sense?
30 - Clavos
IMO the scandals about Medicare are planted by the private insurance companies to put Medicare in a bad light, the better to lobby against the 'public option' in congress.
So what happened to this, bliffle:
But I'll continue to investigate and dig upe REAL citations and REAL quotes from REAL people.
31 - Bliffle
I'm still digging, and so far every lead goes to a successful prosecution (usually by the FBI) for a few millions, but nothing to justify the billions and billions that some folks claim.
32 - roger nowosielski
For your information, bliffle.
33 - Jeannie Danna
Roger Look
34 - roger nowosielski
Correct, Jeannie. As I said in #28, fraud runs supreme, especially when there's money to be made given the unholy alliance between business and government. It's got to be broken.
35 - Clavos
Scrushy defrauded helthSouth and its investors, not Medicare.
Bliffle and have been discussing Medicare fraud specifically.
36 - Bliffle
Why not discuss the private sector health insurance as well, especially since most people are more affected by the private system than by medicare.
37 - Bliffle
My question still stands: why is it not MORE important to discuss private healthcare fraud than medicare fraud since 4 or 5 times as many people are affected?
There's much more money at stake so fraud is even more important.
Are you trying to sweep it under the rug?
38 - David Lee
It's boils down to the simple fact that the Americn people cannot trust the President and those in Congress that support the passage of a universal or national health care program that it will function as they project. The cost alone is reason enough to see it not pass. Once passed, the government will spend whatever additional tax payers' dollars necessary to try and make it work. We're hearing that some in Congress do not fully know what's in the proposed legislation and exactly how it will work. The Americn people should be extremely alarmed at the prospect that the government will end up deeply involved in this aspect of our lives. The medical community and the health insurance companies need to accept the fact that reform is needed and commit to address those areas of our health care system that will bring down costs and insure that every American (not illegals) have access to affordable insurance. dlee
39 - Bliffle
There's only one way to make the medical system work for everyone: put EVERY US citizen in the same pool. Allow no one to be excluded. To some limited extent you can allow purchase of supplemental insurance for people who can afford it, but that must be limited else supplemental will become huge (perhaps) while universal shrinks to token size.
We don't need to MANDATE health insurance purchase (indeed, it's probably unconstitutional since mandates mean every American is born owing money to the insurance monopoly, a return to slavery) because we already have a system for collecting money from wage-earners and capitalists called "Income Tax". that is much better than Indentured Servitude.
We have systems in place for assessing taxes and collecting them, there is no need for an entire "mandate" system, too. Odious as taxes are, we have systems in place for them, and they are subject to the will of voters.
The federal government must administer the program, decide payment for providers, services for recipients, etc. They will probably employ traditional insurance company employees as bookkeepers, accountants and actuarials, but decisions must be made above that level. Insurance contractors cannot determine client policies.
Doctors and other providers may be included on a salary basis or a for-fee basis, depending on opportunities that the Feds make available and which providers want to signup for which compensation plan.