Can foaming-at-the-mouth, anti-American liberals be patriotic for one day?
To all members of the Angry Left:…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
An Independence Day Open Letter To The "Blame America" Crowd - Comments Page 3
Can foaming-at-the-mouth, anti-American liberals be patriotic for one day?
To all members of the Angry Left:…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - gonzo marx
ahhh...definitions..
Respect...of course...i agree with the car analogy
but Fear?
nah...
that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish
Excelsior?
77 - Arch Conservative
I guess everyone who doesn't like your post is right Mark.
There are no America haters on the left. The left consists of nothing but legitimate reasonable dissent. So when someone on the leftis screamign that America is an imperialist nation, a terrorist state, claiming our troops are murderers, saying they hope we are a completely evil and corrupt nation and that we should be attacked again etc etc etc..... well by golly they're just expressing good ole patriotic american dissent that stems from thier great love of this nation...... and anyone that would use thier own words or actions as evidence to suggest that they hate america is just a Faux news watching religious gop nutbag.........
78 - Nancy
Persons of the exemplars you just quoted are not the legit "Left", anymore than the religious reich are the legit "Right", and you know it. There are nut cases on either end of the spectrum who represent none of us, but get all the attention because the MSM love a good, brainless, show instead of having to work by listening to actual ideas or arguments. By pasting all Libs as being screaming anti-American, Jane Fonda apologist maniacs, you lose what little credibility you have. How about cutting the hyperbole a tad; surely you don't need all that much venting room.
79 - Alix
Nancy, can you name a high profile middle of the road lefty who does not blame America, Republicans, people of faith etc. for all it's woes.
80 - Clavos
Nancy 78:
Well said. The vast majority of both stripes are somewhere in the middle.
We (the people/readers/voters) need to not only drill that into the heads of the MSM editors/publishers, but into the politicians'(again, both stripes--or all three or four, etc.) heads as well.
Bloggers have already started on the MSM.
What do we do with (or to) the pols to get their attention?
81 - TinyT
To set the record straight, July 4th is the day we celebrate the signing of the Declaration of Independence; the winning of independence took 8 long years of war. Too many conservatives forget the document that declares our rights, one of which is the right to engage in civil public debate. However, facts are stubborn things, and we patriots, who still believe in the Declaration of Independence, will continue to haunt your dream for dominionism, hegemony, and theocracy.
82 - Dave Nalle
Anyone who DOESN'T fear guns is insane. I spent several years with a gun as part of my service; I know what they can do. Only fools don't fear guns - or those waving them around.
There's nothing to fear in a gun. To fear them is to be ignorant. It takes the gun, a cartridge and a person willing to use it for there to be danger involved. I have zero fear that a gun sitting unloaded on a table will do anything to me ever.
Dave
83 - Dave Nalle
And gonzo, the only time leftists don't hate guns is when they are in the hands of the state and they control the state.
Liberals are another issue alltogether, but good luck finding an actual liberal on the left in America today.
Dave
84 - gonzo marx
#84 sez...
*And gonzo, the only time leftists don't hate guns is when they are in the hands of the state and they control the state.*
another ad hominem, broad vbrush, un-provable sterotypical statement with no basis in objective Reality?
why am i not suprised?
now, i can agree there is a segment of the population who do not like firearms...just as there is a segment with an unhealthy "love" for firearms...
it's just a tool, that should be licensed and regulated , like any other dangerous tool
but still...just an object
Excelsior?
85 - Mark Edward Manning
Thank you, AC, for no. 77!
About guns, here's my two cents. It is neatly summed up like this:
Gun owner
Victim
Select one.
And, I myself may not have served in the military, but I was damn close to signing up in 2003, when all the Lefties were decrying Iraq. I was going to leave my wife and life in London to serve in the war. My father's the only one who stopped me. He said, don't interrupt your life at 33. 23, maybe, but not 33. I honored his request. My father, I feel the need to add, was a U.S. Marine in the mid '60s.
86 - zingzing
mark, yer a superstar.
your neat summation is too simple by far, your reason for wanting to go to iraq is silly and your father's reason for not going to iraq is good, even if "your reason" for not going to iraq is bull. your reason had better be your father's reason, or else you are just full of it. "i honored his request." ha! that's great stuff.
#77 is crazy-silly. archie, you are what you describe, so i will agree with you there, you bible-thumping, line-toating, fox news as gospel, gop whore. mmm. sure, there are ridiculous leftist radicals. thanks, man, you really elightened the masses with that one. what next? women like chocolate? wow! you have every right to talk about the crazy leftist loons, but don't think for an instant that you can paint the entire left with your shit-brown buttplug of a brush. then again, you're the only one left smelling your own shit. stank, ain't it?
87 - fos
After reading the comments on this thread I must conclude that my friend Michael Savage hit the mark with his new book, Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder. If your from the show me state, that would be Missouri on the left side of the Mississippi River if your map is right side up.
88 - dirk
You said:
"To all members of the Angry Left:
Today is Independence Day. Let me just remind you what that is, since you have probably blocked it out and deny all knowledge of it. Today is when we celebrate our forefathers' victory over King George III's imperialist Britain in 1776. You see, Independence Day " or to put it in more common parlance, the 4th of July " comes but only once a year. Like Christmas. It's only 24 hours. Surely you can deal with that."
...while Americans were dispossing others of their lands,e.g Natives.Where does that fit in with the glourious history of America,you know freedom and equality for all....
you said;" Think about how American intervention liberated Europe from the horrors of totalitarianism, in the forms of fascism and then communism."
...actually it was the Russians who beat the Nazi's,over 75% of all German forces were arayed against the USSR.And before you bring up the lend-lease,no more than 5% of weapons and resources needed and used by the USSR came from lend-lease.This is not to say US help was not appreciated,or did not make a difference,but it is a bit of a stretch to say the US "saved" Europe.The USSR was vital in the defeat of Germany,the people of the USSR and other parts of Europe(including some Germans) were heroic in defeating the Nazi's.
"Communism" (1) in Europe fell at the hands and,due to the will of the citizens of those countries,that were "communist".They played the desisive role,it was their will not the self-serving machinations of US policies in the region.
Then there are all the democracies over-thrown by the "US democracy" Guatamala,Iran,Chile...this from the country always harping about the sanctity of democracy,and the will of the people....(even if you disagree with their choice)
Don't get me wrong I do not dislike America or Americans I dislike some of America's(the government's) double standards.
Indeed ever time I celebrate May day,I am celebrating the inherent goodness of ordinary American,the democratic spirit of ordinary Americans(and ordinary people in general).I am remembering their struggle for real democracy,and the fight for the eight-hour day etc...Americans who payed the ultimate price,their life in the struggle for democracy and freedom.Remember who shot them down???
My faith lay still with the American people(indeed all ordinary peoples the world over),it will be ordinary Americans who take back their freedom,from those that are motivated by self,and selish gain over the well being of their own people.
Sincerly Dirk Buchholz
p.s Wars such as in Iraq are the anti-thesis of democracy,in the end it will be the people of Iraq who have to and will find their way.They will decide how their country develops.I fail to see how anything good can come from invasion and war.War is about death and suffering,a suffering that will linger in the collective memories of Iraqi's long after the "defenders" of "freedom and democracy" have gone home.
(1) I use quotes around Communism,because Communism as stated by Marx is the absences of a State.A state by its very nature and existants means someone is oppressed....
89 - Dave Nalle
Wow Dirk, you celebrate May Day? You unrepentant old red, you. So quaint.
Dave
90 - gonzo marx
Mark in #85 sez...
*And, I myself may not have served in the military, but I was damn close to signing up in 2003, when all the Lefties were decrying Iraq.*
then excuses himself form signing up at 33 due to something his father had said...
fair enough...and i woudl have taken it at face value...
then i did the math
that woudl have made you of prime age for Gulf War 1 when you chose NOT to serve...
so please, spare those vets who had the balls to actually stand up and serve their Nation from EVER fucking having the unmitigated gall to open yer fucking pie hole on the subject again]
you also have your right to use of the term "self righteous" fucking revoked, you hypocritical armchair sack of bullshit...
now..after said tirade...i will more than gladly rationally discuss any topic you like as long as you remember the baseline Rules i just mentioned that derive directly from what has come from your own keyboard
Excelsior?
91 - RogerMDillon
Manning: "Ummm ... ummm ... *scratches chin* ... well, let's see, ummm ..."
92 - fos
Like I just said, LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER. For the purpose of political correctness maybe instead of MENTAL DISORDER, disease challenged would be appropriate. So whats your thoughts on this?
93 - gonzo marx
my thought is that you should stop sucking Savage's dick, come out of the closet, and be proud of who you are....
well, you asked...
Excelsior?
94 - Christopher Rose
My thought on this is that you need to stick to one name, sr...
95 - Mark Edward Manning
Gonzo, you will not tell me a fucking thing, vet or not. Frankly, if you serve your country, you should have the werewithal to maintain faith in it. You, obviously, have not.
I admired Kerry for his service, but that sure as hell didn't mean I agreed with him or voted for him.
By the way, how'd you feel about Clinton - a hero of yours, I'm guessing? Dodged the draft, did everything in his power to weaken our military and merge it with the U.N.? Did this offend your vet sensibilities in any way?
96 - Clavos
I admired Kerry for his service
I don't. The bastard cheated and lied his way through, and when he got home he publicly maligned all the rest of us.
97 - gonzo marx
now, you do get to ask me what ya like...but yer assumptions are way off
as i stated, yer Rights to play aggreived or self righteous in affaris military are fucking revoked by your own words
slick Willie was no hero of mine in any manner...nice try, but again, yer fucking wrong
and you have NO standing to talk about "mainitaining faith"... again, based on your own cowardly and hypocritical admissions earlier
might i once again point out to your very obtuse sensibilities that there is a huge fucking difference between love of one's Country, and dissent again an Administration...government , or it's policies?
so try harder, hypocrite
my Faith is unshaken..why? becuase dissent is alive and well, open discourse and disagreement is not only allowed, but fucking Required
oh yes..and i still live in the U.S.
your turn
Excelsior?
98 - Mark Edward Manning
Actually, why the fuck did you even serve this imperialist country in the first place, Gonzo? If you disagree with war so damn much, why take part in its machinery?
Yes, I could have served in the first Gulf War and didn't. I wasn't political back then. If I'd had a mind for politics, then I might very well have joined up.
And I don't know how you do your duty and, more than 10 years later, bitch about the country, giving comfort to all the European cognoscenti and terrorism-apologists everywhere. You make a habit of heckling every conservative patriot who dares to post.
It seems to me that you're the one who's hypocritical, my friend. Or did Agent Orange warp your brain?
99 - Mark Edward Manning
The fact is, Gonzo, you can become President of the country without ever having served in the military. So that says nothing about one's patriotism or lack of it. My father's opinion meant a lot to me and I knew he'd be disappointed if I hadn't listened to him.
As for your cheap shot, "oh yes, I still live in the U.S.," I refer you to comment number Sixty-fucking-two, jackass.
100 - JP
Fos, your attitude of "LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER" is pathetic. Wouldn't an accusation of the converse, "CONSERVATISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER.." offend you greatly? Do you really believe that only one of the positions is valid for a "mentally healthy" American?
If so, you're suffering from logic deficiency.
101 - gonzo marx
ok..now we get to have Fun
where have i said i disagree with a justified War, legally declared against a clear and present Danger?
you won't find it...therefore your charge of hypocrisy is null and void...
try harder
next...it's more than 20 years later for me, i bitch about an Administration and it's policies...pointing out where i disagree, and offering my Viewpoint
which is not only my Right, but my civic Responsibility as a citizen...nothing to do with country, everything to do with the government...the two are NOT the same, you can try and "frame" it any way ya like...but yer fucking wrong...so get your terminology straight, and work on those vocabulary skills as i try and work on my dyslexic spelling...
now..please show me a Quote that conforms to your unfounded accusation of "giving comfort to all the European cognoscenti and terrorism-apologists everywhere"
again..you won't find it
as for my heckling...it tends to revolve aroudn either differences of Opinion, pointing out errors in logic or facts, or my favorite..shooting down bullshit hypocrits....like now
a Patriot is willing to Sacrifice for his country...someone who is truly patriotic does what they can to make it better
what Sacrifice have you made? at least someone like Nalle earns my Respect for his Paine like efforts to make things better by the deeds of his writings (for the most part)...whereas all you have shown is the same smug and un-earned spewings that you appear to be railing against
so, you excuse yourself form one Conflict by "not being political" then you excuse yourself for the one you supposedly "believe" in due to being 33?
this shows the hypocrisy of NOT being willing to Sacrifice "my Life, my Fortune and my sacred Honor" for what you believe in...
and that places you in the bullshit hypocrite category on the subject
you are more than welcome to your Opinion, but you are also subject to being called on bullshit
care to try again?
Excelsior?
102 - Mark Edward Manning
My sacrifice is telling it like it is and receiving a load of bullshit for it. Not that I mind, it comes with the job. Some things are thankless tasks ... like fighting a war on terror.
103 - gonzo marx
again, you mistake my intent..it's your Tight to live where and how ya choose, my remark about my still living here was nto meant to disparage your choice to live elsewhere...merely to make th epoint that i am in the country i care about by my own choice
now..if you believe that gettnig heckled for making the remarks you do is some kind of "sacrifice" than might i suggest a visit to a VA ward, to put things in a bit of perspective
just a Thought
i'll also direct you to my previous comment where i do talk about the difference between patriotism and it's many manifestations and actually being a Patriot...
big fucking difference
like actual Sacrifice by choice...that whole "my Life, my Fortune and my sacred Honor" bit...
there's no disgrace in choosing NOT to go that far, but such choice gives context to anything you go on to do or say or write afterwards
that's called Consequences and personal Responsibility
i would guess you can look those up sometime
oh yes, and as for the "war on terror"
you can't fight a War against a fucking noun
and no War had been declared by Congress as per the Constitution adn the War Powers Act
so again, nice try at the partisan propagandistic "framing"...but total bullshit hyperbole once again
try harder
Excelsior?
104 - gonzo marx
correction "Tight" should have been "Right"
dyslexic stream of consciousness typing gets me once again...
Excelsior?
105 - MCH
"Yes, I could have served in the first Gulf War and didn't. I wasn't political back then. If I'd had a mind for politics, then I might very well have joined up."
- Mark Edward Manning
"I would've enlisted for Desert Storm, but by the time I finished boot camp and officer's school, the war would've been over. If I had joined, I would've been the captain of a ship."
- Dave Nalle
"I couldn't fight in Vietnam, because my family physician awarded me a medical deferment for a pilonidal cyst. In other words, I beat the draft thanks to a cyst on my ass."
- Rush Limbaugh
106 - Clavos
"I actually did fight in Vietnam-before I didn't"
-John Kerry
107 - Gina Weiss
Face it, Gina, even if we had the hippiest-dippiest president and administration the U.S. has ever seen, spending defense money on sex education programs and apologizing for the terrorists that actually wish us harm, you'd still be saying to yourself and others across the world - "well, you know, that's just the president. Most Americans aren't like that, they're ignorant, warmongering rabble-rousers. Remember, they voted for Bush!"
Huh??
108 - Mark Edward Manning
Gee, isn't it funny how all the fucking terrorist ass-kissing liberals are dumping on conservatives who didn't serve. Let me remind you, you people hate the military, you hate wars, and you think defense spending should go to something more useful like the Saddam Hussein Defense Fund. Showing your hyprocritical colors as always.
I'll say it once again, you don't need military credentials to love the country. And if you did serve, but come back all bitter and twisted, a pawn of the Left, taking every chance you get to trash-talk the U.S. to loads of the great unwashed willing to listen, then you're of no use anymore. You may as well have not even bothered.
Sorry, but Gonzo's whole "I served, I'm the bravest man who ever lived, so I have every right to be a Left-wing rabble-rouser, it's my Duty to Dissent" argument does not, and never will, wash with me.
I'd rather fight for this country with words than come back from action with a mind to pick America apart.
109 - mschannon
MEM,
Sorry to be late to the party...Been out of town. I echo Dave's comment #50 on why the Dixie shits were edited out. There's a comments editor, but that isn't the kind of thing he'd normally take out. I guess Dave's looking into it, but it could have just been whoever edited the piece deciding that the Dixie Chips were too nice to be turned on. If so, I'd say that editor exceeded his or her or its perogative.
BUT...to the point....carrying over from my post on extremism. An analogy. You have a male-type child...a 16 year old teenager (I have to make this up because I've never had one of those things called children) who's doing something really really wrong, like boinking 12 year olds--either boys or girls.
Aren't you going to come down on him like a ton of bricks. Take away his pecker privileges for at least a year, get him help, make him wear a chastisty belt? Do something to help him stop being such a schmuck?
But do you stop loving him? Of course not. When his birthday comes around, do you push him down the stairs so he, she or it breaks its ankle? Heavens to Betsy! No.
When I was in college and fancied myself a poet, there was this visiting professor who tore every poem I wrote to pieces...it was as if I couldn't find a useful word anywhere in my rhetoric machine.
In despair, I went to her and said I was giving up poetry since it was so clear that I had the skills of a Lithuanian. She looked at me and said simply, "If I didn't think you had so much potential, do you think I'd take all this time to go over every word you write and criticize you?"
Get over your delusions that those of us who hate Bush (and, by the way, I hated Clinton too) hate America. They're too different animals altogether. We're a great nation that has done wonderful things. And we're a great nation that has made mistake that are beyond comprehension.
If we deny the mistakes and only wave the flag proudly, over time, the wonderful things will be buried by the continuing mistakes that we've never learned from.
Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and Goldberg, when are you going to make room for differences of opinion without demonizing those who disagree with you? Do you really think you're making America better by characterizing us the way you do?
Arghhh....it just makes my blood boil, and I'm always a calm and rational person unlike Gonzo the Patriot.
In Jameson Veritas
110 - gonzo marx
you truly just don't get it , do you..is objective Reality so far removed from your consciousness that yuo will stoop to making up Quotes from someone right here, to refute both the words and the sentiments, in order to continue to spew your twisted and hate filled partisan agenda from axcross an ocean from the land you are talking about?
set bin Laden in front of me, i'll pull the fucking trigger myself...or even better, use my bare fuckign hands and take full personal Responsibility
how's that for "terrorist ass kissing"?
and again, i fucking DEFY you to come up with where i have ever said that you needed to serve to love your country...in fact i give an example of someone i know has not served, whom i argue with constantly, but whom i also freely admit is patriotic and loves our Nation
you just have yer crumpets ina twist cuz i called you out on yer hypocritical bullshit macho "i wanted to join..." bullshit...be a mensch and admit that your politics and patriotism took a back seat to yor fear factor and comfort level...
you'll garner a bit more Respect for it, cuz at least that's honest
as soon as some elitist bastard starts with "the great unwashed" as you have, you show just how ethically and intellectually bankrupt your position actually is, yer making this far too easy and should probably step away from the keyboard before you suffer further mental trauma
and again, you are in error..you are NOT "fighting for this country with words" you are being an Apologist for this Administration's policies and playing partisan spin doctor games, scapegoating, sterotyping and talking out of yer ass about shit you have no fucking clue about
when you start with shit like...
*Let me remind you, you people hate the military, you hate wars, and you think defense spending should go to something more useful like the Saddam Hussein Defense Fund.*
show...yer...fucking...proof....moonbat
show us all who hates the military, where they have explicitly said so...try and keep it to the folks on BC...
hating war...yep, anybody who has been in one hates it, but sometimes you do what needs to be done, especially when you hate it.... courage ain't being without fear, it's doing what ya have to do when yer scared shitless
but you wouldn't know a fucking thing about that, would you?
and i can only give my own Opinion here, but i think defense spending should go towards...well, Defense...and shoudl be watched like a hawk against corruption (remember Duke Cunningham?) and other excesses...i also think that every dollar spent on Defense should be spent with American companies, using American labor making American products...this is for National Security reasons as well as good economics
so that's three for three where yer hate filled has been proven just fucking WRONG...
again...
try thinking and discussing rather than bigoted parroting of yer Fox masters and Rovian overlord
you might begin to approach something resembling humanity
maybe...
Excelsior?
111 - Mark Edward Manning
Mr. Schannon:
Since you have treated me with respect and are willing to assume that I have some measure of intellect flickering within my head - which is more than I can say for some people - I will consider your request to tone it down. But only if the people on your side do the same. Deal or no?
None of this was meant to be directed at you anyway. You've always seemed very genuine to me. I have no beef with you at all.
And as for the "I've never had one of those things called children" comment, bravo! Neither have I, nor will I. A wife is enough trouble for me, LOL. :)
Have a good one.
112 - Mark Edward Manning
Gonzo, Gonzo, Gonzo ... after a few hours sleep, I'm in a less quarrelsome mood and all I can say is bravo, man. Your latest invective against me had me laughing my head off, in fact. So, thanks for that, duuuude. I needed it.
113 - gonzo marx
well...a Laugh is taken as a Compliment by this Jester
if it's accompanied by a bit of Thought , or a new way of looking at something, then my Task is complete and i am content...
keep in mind , that what you may perceive as me being Funny is actually when i am the most serious, and when i appear to be serious is when i am poking Fun...
enjoy yer day
Excelsior?
114 - Mark Edward Manning
I'm dead serious all the time. I have to be.
enjoy yer day
Thanks. I will. Right back at'cha.
115 - Dave Nalle
Nice to see that our resident troll has resorted to making up quotes he can't remember right.
Dave
116 - gonzo marx
hurm..which troll, and which quote?
am curious, cuz i know i'm senile and fuck up...so if i messed up, please Enlighten...
if it wasn't me....then i care a bit less...
no matter, and no worries
Excelsior?
117 - troll
an MCH #105 reference I believe
118 - gonzo marx
much Thanks to THE troll...
makes me feel a bit better, i hate getting shyte wrong, which is why i am so quick to "mea culpa"
the Price from working out of the Memory Mansion and pecking stream of Consciousness rather than careful research and editing
but even those that hate hy stuff, tend to get a good Laugh...so i must be doing something satisfactorily...
i can't wait for the fireworks over my bin Laden Article ta start....
heh
Excelsior?
119 - troll
MEM - please explain what benefits come with your 'my leaders right or wrong' type of patriotism - if all were to adopt your attitude would We the People be safer from the bad guys or something - ?
as for military service - the idea that it is service to Country is one of those delusional abstract niceties for the jingoist propaganda mill...in practical terms it is service to some Leader and his policies
and as has been pointed out - the Leader is not the Country
a standing army is a bad idea
troll
120 - Nancy
What's the title of your binLaden article, Gonz? I need to go read it. Thanks.
121 - gonzo marx
"CIA Closes bin Laden Department" is the title Nancy
in today's politics section
enjoy
Excelsior?
122 - Andy Marsh
OK, look...I've been reading this for a while and not saying anything...I think the thing that bothers me the most...is when I read shit like...there never were any WMD's and bullshit like that...the whole fucking world was sure he had them...the Kurds were sure he had them...it's the bullshit like that...everybody hated Hussein...wild bill even bombed him...but to come back years later and try to say that this administration lied about them is straight up bullshit...the same intel guys that are leaking shit to the NYT are the ones that told bush Iraq had them.
then we have the group that talks shit about the militrary...to lump all the military in with the trash that was working the prison or the asshole that raped and murdered an entire family...it's shit like that that pisses people off...pisses me off...that makes some of us believe that some of you are the hate America crowd.
Those folks that say shit like 9/11 was our fault...like those people in the twin towers did anything to piss off the islamists...other than breathe...
then there are those of you that say...and I'm not pointing any fingers here gonzo...that you slam both sides equally...sorry, I don't see it...those that slam the right around here NEVER say anything bad about the left...yeah, I said NEVER...if you can dispute it, show me...today, I'm from Missouri.
then we have the group that says that bush stole the election...give me a fucking break! How many times do we have to count those votes?
Of course, there's the chicken hawk crowd...another bullshit argument...like a medal ever made someone a better person...One person in particular that loves to use the chicken hawk argument once told me right here on BC that the people in the military that stay just can't hack it on the outside...
and there are people here at BC that say they hate it here...in America...but if you ask them why they stay they get all pissy! That one I don't get at all...if you really really don't like a place...why stay?
Yeah, Bush is an asshole...anybody that takes a vacation in the middle of a war that he starts is an ass...but you know what? They're all assholes! Like the man said...if you want the job, you ain't qualified!
123 - MCH
"...One person in particular that loves to use the chicken hawk argument once told me right here on BC that the people in the military that stay just can't hack it on the outside..."
Well, that's not exactly what I wrote, but whatever. I am proud of the fact that I've never said anything as bad as the BC chickenhawk who stated, "Max Cleland resembles a gigantic thalidamide baby"...
...but maybe I'm just partial...
124 - Bliffle
"...I think the thing that bothers me the most...is when I read shit like...there never were any WMD's and bullshit like that...the whole fucking world was sure he had them...the Kurds were sure he had them..."
NOT the whole world. Not Hans Blix, not Scott Ritter, and many others. So what the bushies did was personally defame people like that. Blix was told by the admin that they would attack him, not his findings. The Kurds, of course, had a big vested interest in the US invading Iraq, so they lied, not feeling any compunction because Bush 1 let them down after he promised to help.
125 - Nancy
Actually, Gonzo has slammed the left quite a bit. I can't point you to specifics, because they're so many & woven thru so many threads he writes on. Ditto other leftie writers. And I myself loathe both sides, & have frequently said so on numerous threads. I'd just as soon hang 'em all & start over.
Nobody with half a brain considers those who did bad things at the prison or with this particular girl & her family to be representative of anybody, let alone the whole military. That's just jihadist BS they use to inflame unthinking fools into allowing themselves to become bombs. I don't know any Americans who sincerely believe this is representative. Personally, I think there's a lot more going on with both those people convicted of "abuse" at the prison, and this group of B-Co. accused of murder & rape, than we're ever likely to find out, and I'm sure there's quite a bit of subordinates being set up to take the heat for higher-ups, but we'll never find out, likely, which is a pity. In any group of tens of thousands, you're going to get some nutcase psychos; can't be helped, it's part of the population, any population. Take 10,000 people off the streets of Denver, or DC, or San Francisco, & you'll come up with about the same proportions of decent citizens to psycho jobs. Same with the military. Only the very lunatic far, far Left thinks ALL militaries are bad. Problem is, the MSM spends most of their time trumpeting only the extremist views of the far left and/or the far right, because that's what's sensationalist, and that's what they think sells. As one of them once said, good news doesn't sell papers.
Ref: who served vs who didn't, I think the objection (as far as I've been able to keep track) is that those who have served in various military units at one time or other object to excessively "patriotic" chickenhawking on the part of those whose fannies never left the comfort of their armchairs & who are now busy abusing everyone who doesn't think like they do. A prime case in point: Smilin' Dick Cheney, 5-time deferment seeker, and currently head of the warmongering coalition, who doesn't hesitate to shed blood ... as long as it ain't his. Cheney & his ilk are offensive to just about all right-thinking people, IMO, past military or not. Just like W with his macho shithead "Bring it on" comment. Bring it on, indeed. As if HE would ever be in danger of actually having to be in danger, or answer to his own swaggering braggadoccio. THAT is what's offensive. At least, it is to me.
And always bear in mind there are plenty of those in this country and abroad, in whose best interests it is to keep us at each others' throats by stressing our differences, keep us stirred up against each other, lest we should stop & perhaps take a closer look at what THEY have been doing, and maybe make them answer for it.