Can foaming-at-the-mouth, anti-American liberals be patriotic for one day?
To all members of the Angry Left:…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
An Independence Day Open Letter To The "Blame America" Crowd - Comments Page 2
Can foaming-at-the-mouth, anti-American liberals be patriotic for one day?
To all members of the Angry Left:…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Clavos
I've read that while Japan and other Asian nations handle the bulk of technology manufacturing, the stuff is still developed more here than there.
27 - Dave Nalle
Dead on, Clavos. The Japanese in particular are very concerned about the fact that they don't produce new ideas, to the extent of going to great lengths to steal our ideas and infringe our patents.
Dave
28 - gonzo marx
i think you will find a much larger incidence of intellectual property theft coming from China than Japan...
as far as i am Aware, they win in total over the rest of the world, stealing from every source they can
but , they do have "most favored nation" status...
makes...me....want....to...vomit....blood...and toenails
Excelsior?
29 - Clavos
Gonzo, You've got to get a better diet!!
30 - RJ Elliott
"how abotu [sic] we also take a moment to remember and Recognize all the things this Nation has done wrong"
Sure, let's celebrate our nation's birthday with some self-flagellation! How about every straight, white, Christian male lights off a Roman Candle in his ass, in penance for shit that happened 50 or 100 or 200 years ago?
Gawd help us all...
31 - Dave Nalle
Well said, RJ.
And gonzo, it doesn't matter who's stealing our intellectual property - China steals from everyone - the point is that we come up with the ideas and the rest of the world comes up with the cheap ways to manufacture them. Whether China leads now over Japan is kind of irrelevant. Both of them plus S. Korea are all 'most favored nations'.
Dave
32 - gonzo marx
RJ...i guess it bypasses yer synapses that we only Learn from understanding our Mistakes?
silly me..i tend to be Thankful for all that has gone Well, remember those who have Fallen, and especiallym honestly looked at what i've fucked up so that i never fuck up the same way again as well as to see what can be Learned from said fuck up...
that Idea may be alien to ya , RJ...but it wasn't alien to the Founders
they carefully looked over how every other government system fucked up, and tossed out all the bad they could and then tried to put safeguards against future fuck ups into the system
but THAT point missed you as well, i guess
so..have another beer with your self righteous crowing, try not to dislocate your arm from patting yourself on the back for shit you have had nothing to do with, and then light that roman candle...i'll lend ya my zippo
cuz it's always fun ta watch the small minded fly via gunpowder
snf Dave...it ALWAYS matters who steals, as well as what they steal...this way ya know who to shoot, rather than firing haphazardly and hitting 70 year old lawyers wearing safety orange in the face...
but i digress
Excelsior?
33 - Dean
Is our generation leaving the country in a better or worse condition?
That is the relevant question.
"When America ceases to be good..she will cease to be great".
-- Alexis d'Toqueville
34 - RogerMDillon
No, you are the one who doesn't get it, Dave. I found it ironic that the author writes about negative news regarding the troops on the day after the most negative charge against any soldier in Iraq has happened.
Anything else you took away from the comment was your own projection.
35 - Mark Edward Manning
RJ, leave it to you to come up with perhaps the best retort on this entire thread! Classic.
OK, Japan leads the way technologically, but I was thinking of Silicon Valley when I wrote about us leading the way. Plus I feel there's so much as-yet-untapped brainpower. If only we could cut out the politically correct, "feel good about yourself" factor from American public education, telling kids that a wrong answer is a wrong answer instead (like in those nasty good ol' days), then think about how much better we could be. I think we need more Simon Cowells as teachers.
36 - Mark Edward Manning
I would like to add that after the bit about "flying rather than burning the flag," I'd written: "Turn off the Ditzy Twits ... er, Dixie Chicks." But that was edited from the piece.
Mr. Schannon or Mr. Nalle, if you edit that here, please give me a reason why. Was I stirring the pot too much? After all, they are the darlings of the Blame America crowd, and I feel that was relevant to my piece.
37 - Mark Edward Manning
Dave, my apologies. Comment no. 6 was pretty damn good too. You share the comedy award with RJ.
38 - Joey
"and again we see someone from the angry , ad hominem spewing, stereotyping, AM radio host following, GOP type confusing and conflating the difference between love of Country and dissent with an Adminstration" -- Gonzo Marx
With a little wordsmithing this could be crafted into the lyrics for a Croce-esque policital ditty. Can I have it?
39 - Bryan McKay
After all, they are the darlings of the Blame America crowd [...].
That's it, Mark. I'll stomach all you have to say about liberals, but I can't stomach being accused of liking the Dixie Chicks!
40 - Andy Marsh
gonzo - to your comment #32...yeah, it's good to remember your fuck ups...we all should...but on your birthday? I'd rather look back over the last year and try to find something good I've done...then to look back and sulk over all the stupid shit I did...there's plenty of time for that AFTER my birthday has passed!
41 - gonzo marx
Andy, i think it's always important to do BOTH...
without dark to offset and define it, how do you know the Light?
as i said above, a true and honest View takes it all in, and thus is more complete and more Informative than just looking at the pretty stuff...
some may just like to look at the retty frosting and all those decorations on a cake...but you don't know shit about it until you carve off a hunk and take a bite...do ya?
Joey....have at it, just list me on the credits
and one last time for a certain ex-patriate who appears to not comprehend...
there is a HUGE difference between Dissent with an Administration and it's Policy and shit like "blame america" or "hating the country"
some jackasses like to break out phrases like that to dehumanize the people they want to stereotype and scapegoat...but it is really fuckinig difficult to find a SINGLE instance of anyone actually "blaming america" or "hating america" , much less a sizable portion of the nation...
i'll say it slowly for those in the cheap seats...
there....is...a...difference...between... disagreeing....with....an...Administration...or...
a....policy....and..."hate"...or...."blame"... for... a .....Nation
got it?
now, tattoo it backwards on your forehead so you can read it in the mirror every morning
oh yes..and shut off the radio and Faux news...
they are hurting you
Excelsior?
42 - Andy Marsh
maybe so gonzo, but next month around this time...I'll only be thinking about the good stuff for the last year...I'll save August 3rd for all the rest of it!
43 - Guppusmaximus
So, because I can see that the Japanese do actually come up with alot of their own technology then I must favor the communist fuck ups as well?
Dave, I think you're mistaken... China is a source of cheap labor and Japan has re-egineered concepts when it was said that it couldn't be done!
Mark, I thought about that after I posted my comment because I do believe that we design quite a bit especially in Silicon Valley but I also have to think of the company that was integral to the whole computer movement. NEC.
It's one thing to come up with ideas, it's another to implement them and without the japanese we wouldn't have had the fortune to see alot of those ideas come to fruition.
44 - Michael J. West
Oh, for the love of God. Neither this article, nor any comment attached thereto, does well to represent America on its birthday. You all, regardless of your political beliefs, make America look like a nation of schmucks.
Mark Edward Manning, clever though your tactic is--engaging partisan bickering on the Fourth of July to tell the American Left not to engage in partisan bickering on the Fourth of July, then sitting back and watching the comments immediately dissolve into partisan bickering--it's neither honest nor becoming. Shame on you. You're no less guilty than the people you're accusing and more guilty than some of them.
And the commenters--well, shit. The Gonzos and the RogerMDillons match the Nalles and the RJs in their desperation to turn the 4th of July into a big political lesson for the other side. It's insulting to the intellect to hear, essentially, "Why can't you stop taking sides for today and instead come completely over to our side?" Guess what, folks? Putting politics aside means that both of you meet in the middle, not that you insist that your political pole has a monopoly on patriotism and you'll not only by God stay there, but demand that the other political pole bend all the way over to you.
Of course, not all of you are trying to be didactic about the Fourth of July. Some of you are just using the thread as another opportunity to take potshots at each other. Those are the most honest people on here--in that they're not pretending to "elevate" themselves for the sake of being patriotic--but they're acting despicable nonetheless.
I spent my Fourth of July with my computer off, thinking how much fun it would be to NOT deal with wingnuts on either the right or the left, or read ham-fisted political arguments (even the ones in the center), but instead just appreciate a Washington Fourth, complete with watching Fireworks from the top of Meridian Hill.
45 - Guppusmaximus
*BTW* Does China still manufacture "our" American Flags??
46 - Andy Marsh
and as far as your comment about not being able to find many people that blame America...I can think of three or four names right off the top of my head...Churchill...Garafalo...Franken...Sheehan...Murtha! The problem with these folks is someone gave them a mic!
There are plenty...so let's not pretend like there ain't!
Yeah, there's just as many idiots on the other side...but let's not pretend like there isn't a blame America crowd in our own country!
Perfect example in these comments here...the way I read them...let's take comment #12...we can't rah rah the troops because 4 guys may or may not have raped a woman and murdered her family...of course, it's in the news, so it's fucking true...just like Haditha! I say fuck the guy who wrote that comment just for writing it! There are 600,000 people in the U.S. Military...so let's tar them all with that broad brush there RDM! Fucking bunch of bullshit is all it is!
47 - JustOneMan
Mark...good job..perfect reading for the 4th of July...Ironically all of those who deny the existence of a "the blame America" crowd of the looney left are here posting in full force....
The reason is that they were all disapointed that Korea wasnt successful in reaching American soil with a war head!
48 - gonzo marx
ok..let's take a second here
by the "reasoning" being used..that means that in the 90's ...most all of those ranting as well as Fox and the AM dittohead types all hated America whyen they were dissing slick Willie and his policies...
do i have that correct?
goose...meet gander..
my whole point is that one can disageree or even dislike an Administration and it's policies, that does NOT equate to "hating america"
far better if folks would learn the difference
Excelsior?
49 - Bliffle
"The reason is that they were all disapointed that Korea wasnt successful in reaching American soil with a war head!"
I think this illustrates the bankruptcy of JOMs ideas.
50 - Dave Nalle
would like to add that after the bit about "flying rather than burning the flag," I'd written: "Turn off the Ditzy Twits ... er, Dixie Chicks." But that was edited from the piece.
Mr. Schannon or Mr. Nalle, if you edit that here, please give me a reason why. Was I stirring the pot too much? After all, they are the darlings of the Blame America crowd, and I feel that was relevant to my piece.
I can't imagine either Mark or I ever editing something like that out of a piece like this. There's just no reason to remove it. Sometimes other editors do publish things int he politics section and their criteria may be different or they may edit with a somewhat heavier hand. If you want it put back in, email me the paragraph as it was and I'll see what I can do.
Dave
51 - Nancy
I'm a day late, but I'm grateful every day for my freedoms as well as my country. What the Angry Right (& some on the Left) don't seem to understand is that we can love our country, and NOT love those leaders who lie, distort, and lead by misrule, misrepresentation, & division. G.W. Bush is NOT the personification and/or embodiment of America, and nobody owes him a jot of loyalty or affection: he's an elected (possibly) flunky who ignores the fact that he's supposed to serve, not rule. To despise him is not to be disloyal to America or The Troops whose blood he wastes.
52 - Andy Marsh
gonzo - you know I love you man...but you're blowing a little smoke up our collective asses here...how about just a couple of examples...
"Our country is founded on a sham: our forefathers were slave-owning rich white guys who wanted it their way. So when I see the American flag, I go, 'Oh my God, you're insulting me.' That you can have a gay parade on Christopher Street in New York, with naked men and women on a float cheering, 'We're here, we're queer!' -- that's what makes my heart swell. Not the flag, but a gay naked man or woman burning the flag. I get choked up with pride."
Janeane Garofalo
and then it became ‘U.S. out of the Persian Gulf.’ I agreed with every one of those, but ultimately there's only one way that any of them will be possible and that is: US out of North America, U.S. off the planet, and take Canada with you when you go!”
Ward Churchill
These are the people you seem to be defending...and these are the people that the left march out on national TV to spew their hate...
find me any comment from the right that slams the country and not a political party or a particular person...that's the difference here...
slamming a political party or parties is one thing...but to say the flag of your country offends you...well...that offends me! And I never here it from the center or the right...only from the left.
53 - gonzo marx
Andy..no worries...
but you seem to be thinking i am "defending" people..nope
i am "defending" folks Right to say what they want
iam delineating the difference between dissent against an Admionistration and it's policies and "hating America"...which i determine is what is being conflated in this Article
the Garrafalo quote is an example of dissent, American style...and shows Love for the Country, but distaste for parts of our HIstory and policies...
i won't touch Ward Churchill, cuz he is just a nutbar and should be treated as such...and is in NO way representative of our Nation...just as Terry Nichols or the Unabomber were not representative of the GOP types..much less any faction in our Nation
so spare me the fake hurt, and actually READ what's typed...i know you can see the difference
it especially galled me to read this tripe on the 4th...and if you re-read my comment #8..i thin kyou will understand my position that much better
hope yer holiday went well
Excelsior?
54 - Purple Tigress
Gee...I think the Europeans had a little bit to do with the defeat of communism and it seems that the fall of the Berlin wall came as a complete surprise to Americans.
Without protest, many of us would not have freedoms that the Founding Fathers would have denied. As for that integration into a great melting pot...you write as if people weren't forced into ghettoes and as if burning crosses and other forms of hate crimes are something from the distant past.
Some of those people who are critical of America do not actually belong to the angry left. They might even belong to the right or be non-partisan.
Without that type of criticism, there would be no change. Remembering the people being detained without the protection of the Constitution or the Geneva Convention on a day of independence is really what independence is about, isn't it?
My older relatives spent a few Independence Days behind barbed wire and I'm sure they understood the irony and people like them did protest so that it would not happen again.
55 - Andy Marsh
fake hurt? Me? Well, I never!!!
I read the Garafalo quote differently...but that's ok...we are allowed to agree to disagree.
I decided I wasn't gonna read any of this political stuff and went to the movies yesterday...so I could hear Perry White say...."Does he (Superman)still stand for Truth, Justice and...that other stuff?"
Even Superman has to be poitically correct these days!
56 - Lumpy
The garofolo quote seems just fine but while churchill may be a 'nutber' he is anti-america not just anti bush and he is someone a lot of people on the left have expressed support and agreement with.
Frankly it is gonzo who is confusing the issue by suggesting that nichols or macveigh represent the GOP in any way snd that opposing the left wing haters is the same as supporting or defending bush. He's just dead wrong.
57 - gonzo marx
now Lumpy...what i said was that Nichols and McVeigh do NOT represent the GOP, just as Ward Churchill does NOT represent the Dems
that simple enuff fer ya?
what i am talking about is the mistake of taking isolated nutbars, and their stupid statements, and then painting huge sections of the American population with extrapolations from that false analogy
such as the original Article
to be as clear as possible...i do not like it when ANYONE from EITHER "side" or "gang" makes broad brush statements about their opponents...
it trivializes the discussion, distracts from the points at hand, and is just bullshit propaganda "big lie" shyte that we should, as a People, be above
hope that helps explain
Excelsior?
58 - cat
Mark,
Just out of curiousity, why is a non-flag burning "patriot" like yourself living in a foriegn country? I would think someone so loyal as you would be among the last to jump ship... :)
59 - RogerMDillon
"let's take comment #12...we can't rah rah the troops because 4 guys may or may not have raped a woman and murdered her family"
Let me take it step by step, so even you understand it, Andy. No one said you can't cheer on the troops. The author was specifically castigating the Angry Left for believing all the negative news about the troops. Do you fall under that classification? I pointed out it was going to be a tough sell to those people that he was addressing because on the day before a very heinous charge was made against a soldier. Nowhere did I mention he was guilty, nowhere did I blame the entire military, and nowhere did I blame America, but hey, fuck me because you have poor reading comprehension.
mjw, I responded to what I read in the article. I didn't ask anyone to come over to my side. please show me where on BC someone on the left wrote an article critical of the right and I'll respond to that as well.
60 - JustOneMan
Bliffle 49 - gee profound remarks....truly inspiring and motivational for all on the left ...yaaawnnnnn....
61 - Mark Edward Manning
"there is a HUGE difference between Dissent with an Administration and it's Policy and shit like "blame america" or "hating the country"
Well, I'll be damned if liberals ever bother to point out this difference except when they're so stunned to find out that others think they're unpatriotic.
So tell me, Gonzo, what do you love about America?
(Gonzo: "Ummm ... ummm ... *scratches chin* ... well, let's see, ummm ...")
JustOneMan, re comment no. 47: I totally agree. North Korea will attack American soil and the Lefties will say, "well, we deserved it!"
Just as they think we deserve to lose in Afghanistan and Iraq. Just as they think we deserved 9/11.
62 - Mark Edward Manning
Re no. 58 by cat:
I never wanted to leave the U.S. I married a Brit and decided to move here as it would be simpler for her; she stood more to lose than I did by moving. So I had to make a life with her over here.
It's not how I wanted it, but it's what I did - it was for love's sake, it had nothing at all to do with politics. Despite seven years in London, and counting, I remain thoroughly American at heart and always will.
63 - Gina Weiss
how about we also take a Moment to remember that those in our Government are supposed to Represent We the People and the Ideals laid out in our Declaration and Constitution...and to hold those Representatives responsible to those Laws and Ideals
Yes, how about we remember our Declaration of Independence: That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Can you be a patriot for just one day?
I submit that those who keep constant watch on our servant government ARE the patriots, and NOT ungrateful wretches as you seem to infer, Mark. As gonzo has pointed out more than once - there IS a difference between love of Country and dissent with an Adminstration.
64 - Mark Edward Manning
there IS a difference between love of Country and dissent with an Adminstration.
So you people keep saying, but I have yet to hear one good word about America come out of your mouths. Not one. It seems you people are the ones linking Bush to America, not vice versa.
Face it, Gina, even if we had the hippiest-dippiest president and administration the U.S. has ever seen, spending defense money on sex education programs and apologizing for the terrorists that actually wish us harm, you'd still be saying to yourself and others across the world - "well, you know, that's just the president. Most Americans aren't like that, they're ignorant, warmongering rabble-rousers. Remember, they voted for Bush!"
65 - Bliffle
Manning: "JustOneMan, re comment no. 47: I totally agree. North Korea will attack American soil and the Lefties will say, "well, we deserved it!""
Neither Manning nor JOM are conservatives, just liberal-bashers.
66 - gonzo marx
just a quickie fer Mark, i'll continue it later..
what do i love about America?
i love it enough to have volunteered for military service, to uphold and defend the Ameriocan Covenant of the Constitution...
i love it because we are a nation formed under the Rule of Law, NOT the divine right of Kings, not the military/police power of a dictator
i love it due to our Ideals and Principles, the very Ethics of a society based on innocent until proven guilty
i love it for my ability to my own "pursuit of Happiness", as long as it does not harm nor hinder other's Rights
i love it because even if we get something wrong for along time...we can fix it (read:slavery and women's voting)
i love it becasue it is our Law that even when i can't stand the words coming out of someone's mouth, i willput my Life on the line to defend their Right to say it...and others will do the same for me
i love it BECASE there IS a difference between dissent against the policies of our Government and loving the Nation we live in
i love it because our government is of, by, and for the People..and when that is not the case...we can vote the bastards out....or forcibly toss them out...still under our Rule of Law..
there's more...
Excelsior?
67 - Nancy
Here's from me: I love this country because no matter how bad some people try to make it, no matter how corrupt those at the top are, no matter what problems we have, it's still the best country in the world - or all those people wouldn't be trying to sneak in here to make themselves a "better life", and as Gonzo sez, we (so far) have the mechanics in place to get rid of those who would destroy this nation. It's a nation strong enough even to put up with bullshit neoconism, fascism, and blind gullibility by the rank & file in our Fearless Leaders on the Hill & in the WH, and still probably be able to survive AS America and all it stands for.
Interesting thing: I note that those of us who have served in the military seem to be those least afraid of criticizing BushCo. and/or the US, while those who are armchair chickenraptors are the most fervid in rejecting any and all critiques of either, under the mantle of being 'patriotic'. Huh.
68 - Dave Nalle
I love this country because you're not required to explain why you love it.
Dave
69 - Clavos
66-Well said, Gonzo!!!
70 - Clavos
...and Dave!!
71 - Nancy
Another major thing: where else would you have an election with the viciousness & badwill of the last two, and no group pulls guns & starts shooting up the neighborhoods or polling places because they don't like the election results, a la Gaza when Hamas won? I mean, I don't think it even entered anyone's mind to do such a thing. That's America.
72 - Dave Nalle
That might just be because the side which got pissed about the election is the one with a pathological fear of guns, Nancy.
dave
73 - Nancy
Anyone who DOESN'T fear guns is insane. I spent several years with a gun as part of my service; I know what they can do. Only fools don't fear guns - or those waving them around.
74 - gonzo marx
call me a Fool then...i don't fear guns
now, the folks holding the weqapon are another thing entirely
but rest assured, not only have i no fear of the tool, but i have a damn good knowledge in how to use it, as well as the proclivity to if needed...
not ALL the folks unhappy with the results mentioned would shy away from usage if needed
a little over 200 years ago, there were another bunch of Liberals that weren't afraid of that Option either...
nuff said....
Excelsior?
75 - Nancy
I'm not afraid to use it; it's just ... it seems to me anyone who doesn't fear something that has that kind of power - I mean 'fear' in the sense of hold it in extreme respect & use it correctly & with caution - is an idiot, IMO. Cars are in the same category. Anyone who drives like they weren't in charge of a ton of steel is a mindless halfwit. Alas, our roads are clogged with same. Some things should just be viewed with the caution & reserve they deserve, and handled accordingly. Kind of like working with Ebola virus, you know?