The Ashley Todd hoax is not a scandal and it is not an outrage. It's a sad and pathetic commentary on our political degeneracy.
The increasingly ugly and angry tone of the presidential campaign began to take on new substance this week with the emergence of the story of McCain campaign worker Ashley Todd, who claimed that she had been attacked and brutalized by an Obama supporter in Pittsburgh.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Les Slater
McCain panders to the Cuban Mafia in Miami/Dade that does in fact support terrorists. They, and the U.S. government, protect Luis Posada Carriles and Orlando Bosch, both of whom were the architects of the in-flight bombing of a Cuban civilian airline flight in 1976 in which all 73 passengers and crew were killed.
I am no supporter of Obam and have no faith that an administration led by him would see to it that those two be brought to justice.
The support of terrorism is a characteristic of both the Republican and Democratic parties.
27 - troll
The support of terrorism is a characteristic of both the Republican and Democratic parties...American right and left...
28 - Arch Conservative
It's funny that the people claiming Obama listening to racist sermons delivered by Rev Wright for twenty years should not be discussed because it has nothign to do with Obama are the same people that are now claiming it's John McCain's fault that this loon did what she did. You people are just much in need of mental health assistance as Ms. Todd.
The last I knew it was the Obama campaign not the McCain that has been using children in propaganda videos to further their agenda. The internet is awash with people commenting on how much the use of these videos and other Obama campaign tactics share striking similiarities with political agendas from years past that didn't turn out so well and which the world would rather never see happen again.
29 - Dan(Miller)
Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn have written a new book, entitled Race Course Against White Supremacy, now up on Amazon for pre-sale. According to the product description,
It will be interesting to learn what these veteran political activists have to say.Dan(Miller)
30 - Les Slater
troll,
The ‘left’ is not a very useful term. During the period between, but including, the civil rights and anti-Vietnam war movements, there were such groups as the Weathermen. However, during the course of the mobilization of millions in the U.S., and the winning of the MAJORITY of the population to oppose the war, the actions of those misguided ‘bombers’, were roundly rejected, and hence marginalized. They never recovered.
The government played a role in those bombings. They used provocateurs that infiltrated those groups that were prone to using bombastic revolutionary rhetoric.
At all times there are those on the right who have used terrorist violence to further their aims. The KKK is an example where various levels of government (read both Democratic and Republican), were involved from the U.S. Attorney General, to the FBI, to the local cops. They either directly aided and abetted, or ran interference by attacking the defenders of Black rights.
There are those like Pat Buchanan that advocate violence and operate, both outside, and within, the established two parties. The fact that neither of those parties will mobilize the population to resist such attacks, even if they come from outside their parties, is enough to lay the responsibility for this violence at their feet.
Les
31 - Lisa Solod Warren
There was just a study I heard about that took identical resumes and presented them to restaurants in NYC, supposedly the bastion of liberalness, yes? For jobs as waitresses, waitrers and hosts and hostesses. The interviewees were then called in for interviews and white people got the jobs overwhelmingly.
It is unfortunate but racial prejudice still exists in this country. I wish it were not true. But it is.
I think it IS better than it was. Certainly the fact that Obama has gotten this far illustrates this. But anyone who says that we still don't have a problem with racism in this country is delusional. LOOK at our prison system for just one example. I can't say whether it is the vestiges of slavery. I don't want to talk about victimization. I personally, as a white Jewish woman who has been subject to terrible anti-Semitic remarks and was sexually harassed at several of my jobs as a young woman (before I even knew that I could do anything about it, and actually probably could not do anything about it) never have seen myself as a victim..... but the fact is that we have a long way to go toward true 'equality' in this country.
I don't know if I think Ayers and Dohrn are the best spokespersons, but we still need to talk about racisms and sexism and all the other isms and if we don't, then we are just being ostriches.
32 - troll
agreed Les - there is a long history of government manipulation...of a citizenry which by nurture is prone to violence
33 - Arch Conservative
There is no doubt that racism and sexism exist in this country and that we must discuss it and deal with it. However that does not mean that we must not an inject an "ism" into every situation we possibly can to excuse one's own personal failings, flaws and trangressions as liberals are inclined to do.
34 - Les Slater
Arch,
"However that does not mean that we must not an inject an "ism" into every situation we possibly can to excuse one's own personal failings, flaws and trangressions as liberals are inclined to do."
It's not person failings, but systemic ones, that seem to increase the inclination of some to scream 'socialism' as the bogyman for all deviations from their Utopian dogma.
Les
35 - Clavos
I don't know if I think Ayers and Dohrn are the best spokespersons
I don't see how you could even think about a couple of slimes like Ayers and Dohrn to be spokesmen for anything.
Those two should be stripped of their citizenship and kicked out of the country.
36 - Cannonshop
#34 "Socialism" may be the wrong word, but what's wrong with pointing out that increasing size doesn't seem to be fixing much of anything? What is WRONG with pointing out systemic failures and refusing to support expanding systems that aren't doing what they were sold as being intended to do?
What is wrong with refusing to give MORE power to a system that consistently abuses/misuses the power it is given?
37 - Heloise
Interesting how both Dave's articles are dated October 24th. DO you think anyone here would get TWO freakin POLITICAL articles published on the SAME day but Dave "knothead" Nalle?
I don't think so. Can you hear the sarcasm in my voice? WHy not update the other poor article Dave. I don't believe that the fairness doctrine is in play here. I think that what I call "The self-righteous right wing-nut doctrine" has reared its ugly head.
Heloise
"Mad as hell and not going to take it anymore" was the subhead on an anti-immigration yahoo group. And guess what: the McCain-Kennedy bill was defeated.
38 - Les Slater
"I don't see how you could even think about a couple of slimes like Ayers and Dohrn to be spokesmen for anything."
They are no more slimes than either Oboma or McCain. Ayers and Dohrn may paint a prettified role of their own histories, but nothing stands up to what McCain and his ilk actually did to the people of Vietnam. Both Obama and McCain want the opportunity to do the same to the people of Afghanistan, Pakistan and who knows where else, including here in the United States.
Both the Democrats and Republicans support terrorism when it suits their master's needs.
39 - Clavos
Schemes for the government to forcibly rob the rich and give their wealth to the poor are socialism.
And even if technically a given scheme isn't "socialism," the word gets people's attention.
40 - Christopher Rose
"Schemes for the government to forcibly rob the rich and give their wealth to the poor are socialism."
Clavos, this would only be true if it was also true that schemes that tax the poor and subsidise the rich are capitalism.
I don't see any benefit in talking in such ideologically loaded and pragmatically useless terms. Do you?
41 - Clavos
nothing stands up to what McCain and his ilk actually did to the people of Vietnam.
Yeah, what we did was so horrible that, at their first opportunity, tens of thousands of Viets fled here for more of it. Millions more would have come if they'd had the chance.
Say what you want about how horrible the USA is, Les, but the net migration rates between most communist people's republics and the USA is heavily toward the US, not the other way around.
42 - Les Slater
Cannoshop,
The increasing of the size, and intrusiveness, of the government, has been going on of late, by the very slime that is against any form of 'socialism'. Neither the right, or left, variants of this slime, are socialists.
You have the wrong target. The 'systemic failures' you refer to are just that, failures of the system, the capitalist system.
Les
43 - troll
...take your choice: Clavos' scenario - the government...forcibly rob the rich and give their wealth to the poor or the alternative - 'the poor' takes direct action
Chris - ...schemes that tax
the poorworkers and subsidise the rich are capitalism.there ya go
44 - Cindy D
Dave,
such as the false accusations that McCain supporters were shouting "kill him" about Barack Obama at a Pennsylvania rally last week
There is video for that. You can hear a male voice shout "kill him". At the same time McCain's face sort of changes into a frown for a moment.
This is the 27 second video clip.
Here is a video news report on various things shouted at McCain/Palin events. It includes that 27 sec clip from above, where a man shouts "kill him".
45 - Dave Nalle
I believe the writer meant "a McCain victory may be as likely to touch off rioting as an Obama defeat"
No, Miguel, that would be redundant. They mean the same thing. I meant what I wrote. If Obama wins there's a pretty good chance that there will be rioting, because that is the pattern we see in these cities after major sports victories.
Dave
46 - Dave Nalle
Dave may be correct concerning the things he has found on the internet. But the McCain/Palin campaign has been making these personal attacks in their stump speeches, in their main line national and regional TV and radio advertising and via direct mail.
They're trying to win an election, Baritone. They have determined that the point at which Obama is most vulnerable is his history of political extremism. It's what worries me about him.
I freely admit that during the primary I was willing to support Obama if it stopped a Hillary Clinton or a Mitt Romney from getting elected. Then, well before the negative campaigning, I began researching Obama's actual beliefs and background and I realized that he was potentially the most dangerous and extreme candidate ever nominated for the presidency by a major party.
What the McCain campaign is doing is to try to bring that same understanding of Obama's background and beliefs to the general population. If you share Obama's beliefs and if you support him, then the accusations against him should not bother you at all. If they do bother you, perhaps you ought to think and learn more about Obama, because most of what he's being accused of is basically true. There's no need to make stuff up.
Dave
47 - Dan(Miller)
Les, re comment #38, assuming for the sake of discussion that you are correct about Vietnam*, Governmental support for "friendly" terrorists, and that Senators McCain and Obama are at least as slimy as Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn, what's a poor voter to do? As far as I know, Jane Fonda is not running for office.
Although many folks in the U.S. blamed the troops who managed to return from Vietnam alive. In my opinion, that was a pernicious thing to do and remains so.Dan(Miller)
*As I recall, and please correct me if I am wrong, we got into the Vietnam mess big time during the presidencies of JFK and LBJ. We had had a modest presence there since 1950 or so. Senator McCain (a Navy Lt. Cmdr. when he began his first combat tour in 1967) didn't get us in or get us out. As a junior officer, he did his duty, just like most people in uniform. So, I have been advised, did Senator Kerry during his brief 1968 - 1969 tour of duty.
48 - Franco
"Although many folks in the U.S. blamed the troops who managed to return from Vietnam alive. In my opinion, that was a pernicious thing to do and remains so."
Amen brother.
49 - Baritone
Dave,
"They're trying to win an election, Baritone"
Oh, excuse me. The end justifies the means. I see. It's okay to lie if the cause is just. I'm glad you cleared that up for me.
Despite your view, most of the "charges" are not even charges. They amount to innuendo, suggestion.
You can be insufferable. It is you, McCain and his people who should worry about your collective sense of morality, ethics and fairness.
Your alarmist stance is totally unwarranted. Obama obviously represents a different means to govern from the left. You hate it. It's apparent that most people don't.
I still won't predict an Obama win, but it's really looking bad your your guy at this juncture.
B
50 - Cannonshop
#42 Les, Bailouts are NOT a function of a Capitalist system, they're a function of expanding, intrusive government. Government that works very much to the Bread and Circuses model. Kleptocracy, Les, government for the pure sake of government.
In a capitalist system, Les, Government has no responsibility to prop up the economically non-viable enterprises. THAT is a function of Socialist and Feudalist governments.
Oh, and on a related note:
The only reason Bill Ayers is still alive, is that it's illegal to kill him. The only reason he's still on the loose, is that his daddy could buy a judge.
51 - Dave Nalle
Interesting how both Dave's articles are dated October 24th. DO you think anyone here would get TWO freakin POLITICAL articles published on the SAME day but Dave "knothead" Nalle?
No one else wrote two articles on the same day, Heloise. And when other people have they've gotten published just as fast.
Now, in the case of these articles I did email editors so they knew they were there and timely, and you can do that too.
I don't think so. Can you hear the sarcasm in my voice? WHy not update the other poor article Dave.
I did, Heloise.
I don't believe that the fairness doctrine is in play here. I think that what I call "The self-righteous right wing-nut doctrine" has reared its ugly head.
You're right, there's no 'fairness doctrine' here. We just publish the articles as they come to us.
Dave
52 - Les Slater
Cannonshop,
"Bailouts are NOT a function of a Capitalist system..."
Maybe not a function of 'a Capitalist system', but certainly a function of THE capitalist system.
Les
53 - zingzing
dave: "Sadly too many people seem to be finding it hard to separate the actions of disgruntled supporters of the candidates from the campaigns and from the candidates themselves. "
i hope you count yourself in that "too many people." and i quote:
dave: "That said, if this story is even partly true - and we've got no evidence to contradict it at this point - it confirms everything I've observed elsewhere about the fanaticism of Obama supporters."
can't even remember what you write.
54 - Arch Conservative
"No, Miguel, that would be redundant. They mean the same thing. I meant what I wrote. If Obama wins there's a pretty good chance that there will be rioting, because that is the pattern we see in these cities after major sports victories"
I doubt it. The people who support Obama are much more the rioting type than those who oppose him.
55 - Clavos
DO you think anyone here would get TWO freakin POLITICAL articles published on the SAME day but Dave "knothead" Nalle?
Actually, yes. I have published two articles by the same author in the same day on more than one occasion.
56 - Dave Nalle
Arch, my point is that sometimes people riot when they're happy as well as when they're sad.
Dave
57 - zingzing
riots are fun.
58 - Arch Conservative
Arch, my point is that sometimes people riot when they're happy as well as when they're sad.
And my point was that if you look at recent American history you will see that most of the rioting and civil unrest that has been politically motivated has been committed by those on the left side of the political spectrum.
"DO you think anyone here would get TWO freakin POLITICAL articles published on the SAME day but Dave "knothead" Nalle?"
Which idiot said that?
59 - Sherry
So? He has not expressed regret for those crimes and that bothers me. Obama was not eight when Ayers stated in 2001 that he thought he should have done more.
That being said, I don't think Obama is a terrorist or supports what Ayers did. I'm just bothered by Ayers, and that people are now showing support for him just to support Obama.
60 - Jet
Again Sherry,
Should I apologize or show remorse for writing an assigned book report in high school about Boris Yeltsin? Does that make me a communist.
Should a neighbor apologize or show remorse for living two doors down from John Wayne Gacy, and knew him enough to sit on his porch and share a neighborly cigarette? Does that make him a mass murderer of little boys too?
Should I apologize or show remorse for defending Dave Nalle because he made a human mistake and published a news article too soon? Does that make me a right-wing Libertarian too?
Should everyone apologize or show remorse who has ever agreed with anything I've written on this website? Does that make them a Faggot like me?
Should I apologize or show remorse for working for the Campaign to Reelection of Gerald R. Ford for President and writing an obituary for him here? Does that make me Republican?
This fucking guilt through association bullshit with Ayres is getting real old kid...
reeeeeealy old.
61 - Jet
If you've ever visited Columbus Ohio after an OSU football victory, you'd know Dave's right on comment #56
62 - Dr Dreadful
Les @ #34:
It's not person failings, but systemic ones, that seem to increase the inclination of some to scream 'socialism' as the bogyman for all deviations from their Utopian dogma.
That's one of the best and most succinct comments on the subject I've seen. Institutionalized racism (and sexism, and ageism, and a bunch of other -isms) is a difficult concept to get one's head around.
Take the inflated percentage of the prison population that is African-American, for example, and the lower likelihood that a white person will end up behind bars than a black person who committed the same crime. You could examine the words and actions of every person involved at every stage of those two hypothetical people's arrest, charging, trial and conviction, and you would probably see very little to convince you that any one person in the justice system was acting out of racial prejudice. You would not be able to pinpoint exactly where in the process the two defendants were being treated unfairly or differently.
And yet the black guy is on his way to the slammer while the white guy is out on probation.
The effects are very subtle, but cumulatively they're obvious.
63 - Lisa Solod Warren
Right on, Dr. D. But people just don't want to see that. They call it whining and victimhood. When it is just the growing pains of democracy. Like the failures of our form of capitalism. We need to be able to change WITHOUT PANICKING and yelling SOcialism and Communism at every new and thoughtful idea.
Lighten up. Be open to something different. The same old same old is not working.
64 - Dave Nalle
Why must change be directed towards something negative, towards the reduction of individual rights and the empowering of government to solve problems we ought to be able to solve for ourselves?
I'm all for change, but let's stop a minute and make it change for the better, to empower people to control their own lives and live with greater freedom and more opportunities.
Dave
65 - Lisa Solod Warren
And you think John McCain wants to do that?
Fat chance. Obama's policies will ultimately do that. Give them a chance. Change does not come all at once. We are only 250 years old and still making LOTS of mistakes. Clearly. Still taking baby steps and goofing up big time. Obama's policies take away NO individual freedoms. They make people more responsible for themselves AND each other.....
Take a deep breath. Relax. As much money as my kids' college funds have lost I refuse to panic. It is what it is. I can't do anything about it at this moment. But I can plan for a better future.
66 - Dave Nalle
And you think John McCain wants to do that?
Not in a very effective way, but I at least think he won't take us too far in the opposite direction.
Fat chance. Obama's policies will ultimately do that. Give them a chance.
But Obama has expressly advocated policies which will produce the exact opposite results. If Obama makes things better it will only happen because his administration is such a disaster (see Kenn Jacobine's new article) that we have a full on rebellion against it and go the opposite direction.
Dave
67 - Clavos
When it is just the growing pains of democracy. Like the failures of our form of capitalism. We need to be able to change WITHOUT PANICKING and yelling SOcialism and Communism at every new and thoughtful idea.
Well, soon you will have your chance to test the viability of your ideas.
I'm gonna go get my beach chair and beer cooler, I want a front row seat to watch this experiment in Democracy evolve (the Founders are spinning in their graves!).
I'm not panicking, but I have a feeling the Marshall Islands are going to enjoy a boom in yacht registrations in the coming years.
68 - Sherry
Jet - What I meant (and maybe didn't say clearly enough) is that Ayers never expressed regret. No I don't think Obama is guilty by association and I said so in my post.
I clearly said I have a problem with Ayers not Obama (or Obama's association with him).
I'm not sure how any the things in your response apply to what I said. I never implied anyone is guilty by association as I strongly disagree with those types of claims myself.
69 - Baritone
The failures of the Bush Administration and Reaganomics culminating in the near collapse of our economy point up the shortcomings of the unregulated free market. When greed takes over, all bets are off. Rules bedamned. Screw guidelines. It becomes a free for all, every man for himself. Me first!
Free market capitalists can neither be trusted nor counted upon to self-regulate. The ONLY entity that can provide such regulation is the government. Probably far from ideal, but no one else has stepped up to the plate.
You all screwed the pooch. Now the resultant puppies are shitting on the carpet, pissing on your shoes and gnawing on the furniture. Obama's obedience school should be opening its doors come January 20.
B
70 - Clavos
Obama's obedience school should be opening its doors come January 20.
Sorry, but I'm too old to go back to school, and don't think Obama has anything to teach me that I'm interested in learning. I always have been against government schools, and never spent so much as one day in one as a youngster.
71 - Jet
I've always maintained Clavos that the two most intelligent things anyone can utter are...
1. I don't know
2. I was wrong
We remain arogant only through ignorance
We learn only from our mistakes
72 - Clavos
You're right, jet.
73 - Dave Nalle
Free market capitalists can neither be trusted nor counted upon to self-regulate. The ONLY entity that can provide such regulation is the government. Probably far from ideal, but no one else has stepped up to the plate.
Who would disagree withthis? I didn't disagree BEFORE the current debacle. But regulating and having the government essentially take over industries are two radically different things. I'm all for sensible regulation - that's the government's job. Micromanaging businesses and setting policies for how they should operate on a day to day basis is not the proper role of government.
Dave
74 - Baritone
Clav,
Maybe you can get an "old fart" exemption. I've already applied for mine.;)
B
75 - Dr Dreadful
Sherry,
Give it a rest. Bill Ayers is not running for president. He's a grumpy old fart rotting away in a university somewhere in Chicago.
You have every right to be bothered by his lack of remorse, but why be bothered by it in a discussion about Barack Obama... if the two men's 'association' really doesn't trouble you?
I'm a bit bothered by Scott Peterson's lack of remorse, for that matter, but I'm not going to agonize about it here.