America is an imperialistic, warmongering, racist country that puts self-interest above all else. And that's our ally speaking.
"Vulgar," "uncultured," "ignorant" and "greedy" are some of the more common adjectives that Britons use when describing Americans, according to the findings of a new poll published today in the Daily Telegraph. Ironically, those same adjectives can be used to describe the Telegraph's editorial board that thought it necessary to conduct the poll — with the help of YouGov — just in time for the 4th of July. Perhaps the better story, which the Telegraph chose not to report, is that after 230 years, Britons continue to begrudge the United States for that pesky revolution.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - JP
"Dr." P - (#10) I'm not putting anything in your mouth. What, do you now actually care about world opinion?
Dave, and why do you think that trend of resentment among the younger exists? Young people are in their formative years, and what they see is a belligerent hick in charge of a great nation threatening much less powerful ones. (along with many other things mentioned elsewhere) Should that make them bow down and wish they were Americans?
And Christopher, this article is the first time I've ever heard the idea of begrudgment of our revolution--until now, I thought that was water under the bridge. I have very little confidence in what's written in this article, or in the comments about the "leftist" media.
27 - Christopher Rose
The only thing I begrudge giving up is what is now known as the US state of Hawaii or the Sandwich Islands as we used to call them. Major mistake to give up somewhere so beautiful!
28 - Maurice
Dr Politico - great topic and I think this thing needs to be said more often. We get so much negative news about ourselves.
Agree with Dave #21. I have lived in several countries for several years at a time and have had similar experiences.
Strongly disagree with Ruvy #6. You are invoking the fallacious argument that drives me nuts! I could use your reasoning and say no white person could ever understand my life. Wait, no white person could ever understand or comment on my marraige to a white women. No wait, no white person could ever understand....aaAAAArrrghhh!
29 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Maurice,
I speak as an American citizen, born and bred in the United States, with many many positive feelings about the people who live there. Had I not lived there for as long as I had, I would not feel very comfortable commenting on this article at all.
When I lived in the States, I did not really understand the influence the States had outside its borders. When I began to seriously consider moving to Israel, I began to seriously consider the influence of the States, not from my point of view in Minnesota, in the middle of the continent, but rather from the point of view of someone living outside of the United States.
For all of my efforts to do so, I couldn't get my mind around what I was reading in e-mails from Israel. Only after getting the Israeli ID and seeing how things were influenced here by the States was I able to comprehend the American Empire. This took a short time for me because Israel is in the direct firing line of American policy. Britain, by contrast, isn't.
30 - Clavos
Excellent point, Maurice:
Strongly disagree with Ruvy #6. You are invoking the fallacious argument that drives me nuts! I could use your reasoning and say no white person could ever understand my life. Wait, no white person could ever understand or comment on my marraige to a white women. No wait, no white person could ever understand....aaAAAArrrghhh!
And Christopher, the BBC clearly exhibits a liberal/left bias in its reportage, as does PBS in this country. They both also literally exude an air of intellectual snobbery; that's smug and patronizing in my book. We peasants are so lucky to have them both around to educate us and free us from our abject ignorance!
I'm surpised that you would categorize Mark's and my opinions about the BBC as "wrong," since they are only opinions; a good liberal relativist should recognize they're just as valid as anyone else's.
31 - Dave Nalle
JP, the resentment towards America predates the Bush administration by quite a few years. It's strong in my generation of Europeans - those under 60. It seems to have originated in the 1960s, so I suspect it's at least partly because of the Vietnam war. But even more than that I think it's because of the really pervasive invasion of American culture which began in that period. On the one hand younger Europeans are quick to embrace American ideas, but they resent the fact that they are coming from outside their own culture and changing that culture rapidly in ways which they don't necessarily agree with. It's also that all of that American culture is a force pushing their societies away from the socialism which has become the accepted norm and towards a more materialistic/capitalist viewpoint which they resent.
Dave
32 - Nancy
From what I understand from various friends in foreign climes, the disenchantment/resentment is not towards Americans but towards BushCo. Thanx to Smilin' Dick & Junior the Wannabe War Prez, all our years of previously hard-won & carefully built up overseas credibility and goodwill has been blown - along with our budget. But we ourselves, Americans, are still welcome & well liked. The disconnect is that so many cannot understand how so many nice people could possibly elect such a vile administration. Of course, this question has crossed the minds of quite a few American citizens/voters, also, who remain convinced Junior is not the legally elected Prez.
33 - Dave Nalle
Any dissatisfaction with Bush is very recent in general terms and focused on Bush rather than America as a nation, from what I've observed. It's quite similar to the irrational Bush hating of the American left who Europeans like a lot more in the first place.
Dave
34 - Nancy
Mmmmmnnnooo...I first read articles with the general theme of 'how could they?' very early on in Bush's first term. Granted, initially most non-Americans were more appalled at his lack of manners & social boorishness, but the criticisms got more businesslike very soon after that; as I remember, about the time Bush started spouting off about WMDs, going it alone, etc. before the invasion.
35 - Clavos
Dave's right.
I've spent several decades living and working in and with several Latin American countries. The resentment there dates back to before the 1950s at least.
The reasons for it vary: from resentment of loss of territory (Mexico), to US interference/meddling in internal politics (practically all the rest of the LatAm countries, especially Central America).
But the chief reason is, and has been, our total economic dominance of the hemisphere--there's a saying in Brazil (and elsewhere) "When the US [economy] sneezes, Brazil catches a cold." And the Mexicans are fond of saying: "Poor Mexico, so far from God and so near to the US."
That said, there is, as other commentors have noted, a fondness for individual Americans; I have always been welcomed on a personal level and have many friends all over the region.
36 - Christopher Rose
CLAVOS: If you feel the BBC is condescending that says more about you than them. I categorise your opinion as wrong because it simply is.
If you could make a political spectrum and match the BBC against it, you'd certainly be able to see the difference for yourself. Try taking off your subjective glasses for a while, they're not helping you to see things clearly, as evidenced by your confusing remark about opinions. What on earth gives you the idea that because it is your opinion, it can't be wrong?
By the way, welcome to the large group of people who have mistaken me for a liberal.
37 - Arch Conservative
Yeah Clavos what's wrong with you?
The BBC isn't condescending....neither are europeans who want to lecture Americans on this site on how we ought to run our nation or tell us what our place in the world ought to be.
You're just a stupid American incapable of comprehending the enlightened, sophisticated, advanced, superior, psyche.
38 - Arch Conservative
That should read......
You're just a stupid American incapable of comprehending the enlightened, sophisticated, advanced, superior, european psyche.
39 - Loofa
Hey hey now boys. Fight nice! What happened to the good old days of baseball, hotdogs apple pie and Cheverolet?
40 - Clavos
You're right Archie. I bow my head in shame and humility.
What was I thinking?
41 - Clavos
Loofa,
They turned into soccer, sushi, and suzuki.
42 - Deano
The BBC isn't condescending....neither are europeans who want to lecture Americans on this site on how we ought to run our nation or tell us what our place in the world ought to be.
Last time I looked Blogcritics was "A sinister cabal of superior bloggers on music, books, film, popular culture, technology, and politics", not a sinister American cabal. Looks like you're going to have to get used to the shocking fact that not everyone on the old Internets is an American....or convince Eric to change the tagline.
43 - zingzing
um, arch, etc., do you ever lecture europeans on how to run their countries? do you think you have a valid opinion about europe? what about iraq?
what's wrong with a little commentary from the other side of the fence? if we are a part of the world community, flashing our power, letting our money and tanks roam the earth, don't you want to hear what the world thinks about it?
feedback? criticism? these things are going to happen when we put ourselves out there.
if i have you right, then europeans should just shut their mouths and like it? if they don't like what we do, it's none of their business, even when what we do affects the world at large? what kind of attitude is that?
and yeah, the bbc is a little condescending. pbs does swing a little to the left. then again, they are dealing with history, and history, as i see it, swings a bit to the left. things change, and what was considered outlandish 50 years ago is common today. 1,000 years ago, no one had the right to badmouth their rulers. luckily, 1,000 years have passed.
44 - Dave Nalle
By the way, welcome to the large group of people who have mistaken me for a liberal.
I've certainly never mistaken you for one.
Dave
45 - zingzing
but, remember, dave defines things differently.
46 - Mark Edward Manning
Re: no. 37 by Archie. Spot on!
Mr. C. Rose. (I spell your name that way because that's how Brits seem to prefer it), could you please enlighten us as to:
A) Why Clavos and I are wrong about the BBC. You've said it enough times, now time to divvy up.
B) Why it's wrong to think of you as anything other than a leftie with a "well, you know, dear chap, I am better than you" attitude?
47 - Mark Edward Manning
I entirely agree with Dave Nalle when he says our current forms of anti-Americanism - the reasons why people are anti-American - started in the '60s with the New Left.
48 - troll
*The reasons for it vary: from resentment of loss of territory (Mexico), to US interference/meddling in internal politics (practically all the rest of the LatAm countries, especially Central America).*
you mean like writing the book (literally) on insurgent torture and terrorism which lead to the ubiquitous 'death squads' - and training arming and funding same - ?
yeah...I guess that could lead to some resentment
troll
49 - zingzing
our current forms of anti-Americanism - the reasons why people are anti-American - probably have something to do with american foreign policy.
what do you think?
hmm. why would the world despise us? hmm... hmmm... pondering.
ah! maybe we did something that pisses them off!?
nah... we're just innocent victims, our pants around our ankles, totally clueless to what is going on.
"why do you hate us? (europe, fuck off.)"
"what did we do? (central america, your memory is being erased.)"
...yes, yes, a knowing wink, a crooked smile! "we never knew..."
"no, no, you misunderstand..."
"you can't... seriously... you can't think you would know better than us? you are better than us? WHAT!?" [angry america.]
"AMERICA SMASH!"
(chorus: "for political gains.")
"AMERICA SMASH!"
(chorus: "we know you weren't even piloting those planes."
"osama and hussein, they look just the same!"
(chorus: "with that towel on their head, anybody with a towel for a head.")
world, shut your mouth, shut your mouth.
50 - Clavos
troll,
You're referring, of course to some of the graduates of the US Army's School Of The Americas at Ft. Benning. The training took place there, the arming and funding came from the US as AID funds and was then misdirected by the puppet governments our government put in place, especially in Central America. This was done mostly in support of United Fruit Company and others, which used the nations there (and Cuba as well) as plantations throughout the 40s, 50s, and 60s, at least. It's worth noting that this was completely bipartisan--both dem and gop administrations participated.
Similar situations prevailed in other nations as well--Anaconda Copper in Chile, for example, and prior to expropriation, US and European oil companies in Mexico and Venezuela.
Hell, it isn't even exclusively American--The Brits manipulated Argentina for a long time, Portugal in Brazil, The Spaniards everywhere, etc., etc.
Even the fact that we call ourselves "Americans", as if we're the only people in the hemisphere, is a thorn in their collective sides.
But, as I said in #35, the chief reason these days is economic--we so completely dominate the hemisphere, it makes them feel dependent and to a degree, powerless to control their own destinies.
51 - troll
agreed Clavos - well said
52 - Christopher Rose
Mr Manning: I don't care which way you write my name and I've never heard anyone ever discuss it outside a classroom. You know, you sure do moan a lot about the country you live in. What's the matter, are you really so unhappy there?
As to your question to me, I've already answered it once up there in #36 and with regard to your presumption, there's nothing I said that indicates I'm a leftie, and I'm not, nor does anything I wrote in any way suggest I know better than anybody else - it's called dialogue.
Mr Nalle and you can believe what you like but as far as I remember from history class and family stories, in Britain the resentment against the USA began during WW2, and I believe that's fairly common knowledge.
53 - Victor Plenty
It's always the same with some types, Christopher. Anyone failing to slavishly parrot the divine guidance of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh is automatically labeled leftist, even when nothing else is known about their political ideas.
Likewise with the BBC. Because it persisted in looking for the facts of certain stories, such as the purported vast arsenal of nukes in Saddam's back pocket, and refused to swallow as gospel truth anything and everything the Bush administration claimed about the situation in Iraq prior to the U.S. invasion, the conservadroids have all been parroting their baseless claim that the BBC must be "leftist" and biased.
All without any shred of evidence, mind you. The entire concept of evidence only comes into their minds when they demand it from someone else. Even then, it's only a trap. The far right extremists who falsely claim the label of "conservative" always demand that their worldview be considered the unquestionable default truth, automatically rejecting any and all evidence that might contradict their beliefs.
54 - Dave Nalle
Mr Nalle and you can believe what you like but as far as I remember from history class and family stories, in Britain the resentment against the USA began during WW2, and I believe that's fairly common knowledge.
You may well be right, Christopher. I wasn't there at the time. I just know that when I did live in England (in the 70s) the resentment seemed to come more from the younger generation than the older folks there. Maybe the old folks were just more polite. It also seemed to have considerably intensified the second time I lived there (in the 80s), but maybe being 10 years older and in a university environment I was more observant.
If as you suggest it began in the WW2 period, then it's more intriguing, as that's the period when logically they should have been most friendly and accepting of the US. But perhaps it's one of those situations where their feeling of indebtedness and obligation which could never really be fulfilled metamorphosed into unfocused resentment. That's not uncommon.
Dave
55 - gonzo marx
funny..i was just in England (Bristol)
and my Observations were varied but of a single experience...
i had doen a little homework before going, so i woudl have at least a clue as to decent manners and customs before i went...and found that it is usually considered impolite to begin conversations on some topics(such as politics) but ok to start with other subjects...the weather, pets and gardening being considered "safe"
so this lead to waiting..first for them to figure out i was American and not Canadien (some funny stories there)...then there woudl be some almost stiff formality, until it was broached that i was not a Bush follower...
oh boy, THEN the conversations opened up
the general gist of what i found talking to people there was that the majorty liked americans as Individuals, disliked the policies of our Government...got much of their opinions of average citizens from american TV programs that are played over there...
this included, but was nto limited to...a 2 hour ride with an over 60 Bristol local, a displaced Scot, some Welschmen....more than a dozen from the Bristol area born and raised, 2 whose parents came from India, an African who was married to a Brit and driving a cab as well as numerous folks in the factory i was over there visiting...
just sharing...
Excelsior?
56 - Dave Nalle
The last time I was over there was early in the Bush regime, when he'd just been elected and right after 9/11. At that time no one was terribly angry at Bush, but the media and the truly virulent left in Britain has had a lot of time to work on them since then.
Dave
57 - gonzo marx
funny...i didn't notice any such obsession...lots of bashing Blair for various reasons...bigtime mashing Galloway for being on Big Brother (as well as being a congenital moron)...
but sorry, didn't see any kind of obsession with anythign american, much less Bush...
during my two weeks there, only CNN international ran any major story on Bush, and it was covering some event he spoke at...completely objective reporting, no editorializing
so the above comment ...
*but the media and the truly virulent left in Britain has had a lot of time to work on them since then.*
appears to be a spurious ad hominem not based on fact...if there are any facts to base said attact, please share...otherwise it appears to be typical bashing with no correlation to Reality, but merely serving prejudicial partisan propaganda
Excelsior?
58 - Clavos
Who mentioned an obsession???
59 - Mark Edward Manning
Re: 56. True, Dave. Absolutely true.
Only a lot of people here had made their minds up about Bush even before he'd stepped into the White House. The British media was already working into overdrive.
Christopher Rose, I am unhappy with the attitude here. I think it's totally unjustified. Just a bunch of crybabies who'd rather bash America than consider revising their terrorism-apologist role in the world at large.
60 - Christopher Rose
Here we go through the looking glass...
61 - Mark Edward Manning
Heh, I wish it was the life through the looking glass, Chris. But it's actually real life - something the Brits, 50% of Americans themselves and most of the rest of the world don't want to face up to.
62 - gonzo marx
and again we see a typical example of false "framing"...
the deliberate confusion and conflating of dissent with a governmental Policy and somehow that equating to "hating" your country
i call bullshit
when you can begin to rationally and accurately discuss a subject...then you might get taken more seriously
for now, spare us the poor man's Fox/Limbaugh
Excelsior?
63 - Mark Edward Manning
OH yes, I forgot, Gonzo. You're the expert. Thank ... you ... mas- ... -ter ...
64 - gonzo marx
yer welcome, bitch...now scrub the damn floors and start with yer reading...Locke would be a good place
no moving yer lips while yer sounding out the big words
Excelsior?
65 - Bliffle
Arch Leftist hater: "... leftist......lefties ... leftist...leftist ..."
I think this reveals that archie has NO conservative principles, he's simply a leftist-hater. Thereby he is condemned to simply being the anti-liberal and not a conservative at all.
66 - Bliffle
"America's agenda conflicts dangerously with that of the international community; "
The international community is cynically avoiding taking responsibility for any real action in international affairs while reserving the right to criticize US actions required by the inaction of the internationals. What a bunch of twerps!
67 - Bliffle
"Personally, I love the country but there's no denying the simple fact that, being a young nation, its world view is, by definition, somewhat juvenile. That's not even meant to be a criticism by the way, just a simple fact."
I think this is wrong. By actually engaging in international affairs, instead of standing on the sidelines, the USA has developed a considerable expertise and finesse in world affairs (tho it's to the Bush regimes discredit that it has chosen to bypass large parts of that expertise to enforce ideological conformity). It is the 'international community' whose inaction has induced them to be naive and immature. Witness Bosnia, Kosova, etc. And their utter corruption wrt the pre-invasion Iraq oil-for-food program.
68 - Christopher Rose
Oh, OK, it's the world that's wrong, not the USA. Sorry for misunderstanding. Please forgive me...
69 - Clavos
Bliffle 66 & 67:
Excellent point, well said.
70 - Nancy
I myself get terribly confused, because I know whenever there's some kind of ecological crisis (tsunami, earthquake, volcano, floods, etc.) the US is just about the first to arrive, with the most aid, 'way over what any other nation ever proffers, and as far as I know, we've never attached strings to that help, either. Therefore I become outraged & isolationist when I hear stuff from abroad like 'Americans are selfish'. The hell we are: most of those abroad living hand to mouth are alive at all - or have shelter, or medical clinics & schools - because of 'selfish' Americans. I never did see the Muslim nations - especially the rich ones - racing to take care of their fellow Muslims after the tsumani and the recent quake. Personally, my impetus when I hear that kind of anti-American slur is to say, 'fine; then next time there's a huge crisis, we'll just keep our money & our medical assistance & our help & let your fellow ____ (fill in the blank) bail your ragged asses out of trouble. Then we'll see just where all the selfishness really is'.
Now, that's only concerning crisis type events. I do understand that when it comes to intervention elsewhere and elsewhen, the US invariably attaches strings (more like cables) to any 'help' they offer, and it's buyer beware if you take American assistance, say, with getting rid of an old junta, etc. But this seems to play against us; almost invariably those we arm & train turn against us & end up costing us more in lives & resources, to the point where you'd think the administration (any administration) and the CIA would learn something from time to time, but it seems they never do. Here we are, arming & training the warlords of Darfur, for instance, and now they've kicked over their US traces and are attacking us as well as everybody else. Typical CIA screwup/miscalculation, IMO (I used to work with and know several CIAs, and they're absolutely insane & out of touch w/reality, they really are; they have a view of their own abilities and powers that are ... shall we be charitable & say "unrealistic"?).
Therefore, I don't know quite where to stand as far as the issue of America as bully. Yeah, this current administration IMO is horrendous as far as respecting anyone anywhere else. BushCo literally dissed the world early on with his macho shithead posturing (I believe his offense of the Brits early on consisted of some sort of ignorant behavior w/the Queen, due to his own boorishness, & had nothing to do with political reasons; Laura behaved perfectly well, as always, and everyone seemed to approve of her; just George the Lout they had trouble with) re: going it alone, etc. Sometimes we do need to go it alone, if necessary, without the blessings of others, but there are ways to do it that aren't as gratuitously & egregiously insulting & graceless as the way W. insists on doing it.
Whatever....
What do I know. As I said, I'm confused. Talk about someone (in this case the US) being 'good cop/bad cop'. Can we be so absolutely corrupt on the one hand, and so absolutely generous on the other?
71 - Dave Nalle
Personally, I love the country but there's no denying the simple fact that, being a young nation, its world view is, by definition, somewhat juvenile. That's not even meant to be a criticism by the way, just a simple fact.
This makes no sense and is factually incorrect. The nations of Europe are not 'old' nations, they are old cultures. The actual nation states there are typically substantially younger than the US. As nations Germany, Italy and most of the eastern European nations have substantially less longevity than the US. As governments very few European nations have governments which can match the US in longevity under the same system of government. Only a few of the monarchies have greater longevity. So what you're arguing is that our culture is more juvenile, yet we are direct inheritors of British culture and bits of culture from a thousand other nations, and what unique culture we have is merely the evolution of that base culture over the years, just as the same base culture in Canada or Australia or Britain itself has evolved.
The argument that the US is culturally 'juvenile' is entirely self-serving, designed solely to minimize and dismiss whatever issues from the US. It shows a eurocentric bias which is based on wishful thinking rather than fact, and expresses irrational resentment of the US.
What actually sets the US apart from the European nations is that our society remains somewhat more dynamic and flexible, with more acceptance of individual initiative and social and economic mobility. That is apparently threatening to Europeans, so some of them feel a need to run it down and sneer at it, with very little merit. I'd rather be chaotic and undisciplined - as America suirely is - than decadent and condescending.
Dave
72 - Nancy
Unless someone is trying to break into the circles of the habitues of the Almanac de Gotha, Dave, how is Europe less flexible socially or economically? My understanding (I've never been there, mind, I admit) is that if you've got money, you're socially acceptable anywhere - just like in the US.
73 - Dave Nalle
You're right in theory, Nancy, but in practice people in Europe generally move and change jobs less than people in the US do. There's also a much more structured system of social classes in most European nations and a strong resentment of the nouveau riche - which I think automatically extends to all Americans. Many in Europe still hold to the belief that people should 'know their place' in society and stick to it. They're outraged when their relatives marry the 'wrong kind of person', be that for social, ethnic or political reasons. From what I've observed there's certainly a strong sense of racism and classism whch is much less pronounced in the US.
Dave
74 - zingzing
hrm. while i would agree with most of #71, i can't really agree with #73.
i think chris is being a bit eurocentric, but that's because he lives there. i wouldn't presume to know so much about america if i were in europe, but he sees what he sees.
i think that our culture may not run as deep as several european cultures, but it certainly is more broad (although europe is catching up). there is a diversity here that is truly unmatched in the world. as far as government goes, especially foreign policy, i think we need to step back a bit. we need to remember that we are a part of the world, and not its savior or ruler or any of that nonsense.
75 - Christopher Rose
Dave, just give it up man, you just don't get it and it seems those brain cells of yours are just too set in their ways to adapt to the new world. Pity, almost.