Recently, every time I've started to write an article about the situation in New Orleans and Hurricane Katrina and surrounding events, I've gotten a few words down and then become distracted by something I read while browsing the internet. I've come on statements like these:
- "I want to claw George Bush's eyes out with my bare hands. I want to take Cheney's bottom lip and pull it up over his head and drown him. I want to take Rice's $1000 shoes and pound the heals into Dick Cheney's heart. I want Rice to be stripped of all her income and get shoved into the Astrodome, peniless and defenseless... with the rest of her Brothers and Sisters. I want Rumsfeld just airlifted over the Atlantic and dumped. I want Grover Norquist drowned in a bathtub. Better yet, I want Grover drowned via a massive "swirlee" (head in toilet... flush)." Lode Runner on DailyKos
"The mother of the Bush crime family, Barbara Bush, paid a visit to the Houston Astrodome on Monday and showed just how much they really do care about black people. Now I'm not much for criticizing non-elected officials, especially their mothers, but this bitch has it coming." from John A. Conley on Blogcritics
"They (Republicans) believe it is mainly African-American’s inherent inferiority that keeps them down. They believe that their policies do nothing to harm African-Americans, but it is a chronic laziness and a tendency of young black males to abandon their families. They make no acknowledgment of the fact that whites held blacks down for hundreds of years and that blacks have never, as a culture, been allowed to climb out of that hole." Balletshooz on Blogcritics
"Bush could not be more responsible for the deaths in New Orleans if he had taken a gun and shot the victims of this tragedy. He took the money that was to go to repair the levees so he could murder more Iraq citizens. After all what is more important levees to protect American lives or Halliburtan profits." Ronald Eakins in a comment on Blogcritics.
"I think that malice on the part of the Bush Administration exacerbated it. I know I'm in the minority here, but it just doesn't seem possible otherwise. Screwing up this badly takes a plan." 'Bink' on DailyKos
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - JELIEL
Sorry for not reading the entire article but comments like these abound on both sides. Some posters are kids others are just immature.
But also it's universal balance. The more to the right the right goes, the more to the left the left will go. The more agressive one side gets, so will the other..
2 - Dave Nalle
These aren't kids, Jeliel. One of them is a columist for the NYT ferchrissakes writing on his personal blog. This isn't immaturity, it's insane hatred and it makes me sick. And frankly, I don't see anything near this level of hatred coming from the right - even when Clinton was in office there was nothing like this sick stuff coming from even the most extreme right people.
Dave
3 - You have No Self Awareness
So your defense is, "How could they say those mean things?" Nothing about the vile actions of W or the twistedly evil and insensitive rantings of his mother. Just "That's mean."
You're as deluded as they are.
4 - kittygogo
Oh yes and all of the repos comments here and elsewhere are full of so much love for mankind, it just makes me want to weep with the joy of it all.
We have just faced a tragedy and crime against humanity that has scaled no other in our lifetime. At the end of this, more people have probably been killed by sheer ineptidute than any other event in ours or any other lifetime.
I have seen many posters go on and on about who is to blame. So other people have an opinion, they are pissed, this is America and the internet, it's hard for us to vent anonymously, not go and get a shotgun and kill Barbra Bush (can you kill androids with guns?). Please don't tell me that I couldn't perume some right-wing site and find the same type of hateful postings. Please spare us the high and mighty. People are pissed, they are venting - do you really think a hard-core leftie gives a shit about your deluded "facts" anyways? They are probably about as interested in jumping on your bandwagon as you are jumping on theirs.
5 - kittygogo
sorry bout the typos, my cats on my keys. They both think Barbara is less a cunt than a pussy.
6 - Dave Nalle
Kitty, you make my point for me. This wasn't a crime against humanity, it was a natural disaster. And everyone regardless of political persuasion wanted and tried to help out. Why can't you put the blame and hate aside for even a minute?
>>Please spare us the high and mighty. People are pissed, they are venting - do you really think a hard-core leftie gives a shit about your deluded "facts" anyways?<<
No, they're clearly not interested in facts of any kind. Facts tend not to support pure unreasoning hatred.
Dave
7 - John A. Conley
Dave, this isn't hatred, it is anger rising to the top. Granted, some go over the top and I am not defending them. But people called Abbie Hoffman full of hate, how does he look now? I don't want to get into a full political debate with you here, but people are very frustated with what they see going on. If it calls for strong language to express strong views, so be it. And that goes for both sides. Not pointing fingers here but the right has done more than fair share of the same. Whatever (legal) median people use to express their views, I support.
8 - kittygogo
and you make my point about deluded facts. We all saw what happened there, everyone else, all over the world saw it. If watching innocent people starve to death in a modern American city on TV, while help is a car drive away (3 college kids got in and rescued people, no problem, drove in all the way to the city) is not a crime against humanity, please tell me what is?
9 - Dave Nalle
John, there's a big difference between righteous anger and the dehumanizing personal attacks which characterize the current left. The contrast is obvious.
Kitty. No one starves to death in 3 days. And what I see in the efforts to blame bush is not a desire to find who was responsible in any logical way, but people seeing in this tragedy an opportunity to do poltiical damage and taking it. I find that reprehensible.
Dave
10 - kittygogo
oh sorry mr. facts. OK, got beaten to death. better?
11 - Dave Nalle
You think that being in a superdome for 3 days turns most people into rapists and murderers?
Well, maybe it does - since the good people who were there eventually started beating the child rapists and murderers to death.
Dave
12 - Eric Berlin
...I suppose that not everyone on the left is part of this new culture of hate and despair.
...there's a big difference between righteous anger and the dehumanizing personal attacks which characterize the current left.
It's just plain wrong to take these statements and hail them as a mantra of "the culture of the left."
The majority of the statements you mention are fringe-left people commenting on blogs.
Do you really want me / someone to dig up statements by the right?
Surely you know how easy that would be.
This leads to my point: what's your point? There's always going to be anger from the far right and left. It doesn't reflect the views of the vast majority of people.
Or the vast majority of the "culture of the left," whatever that means.
13 - KIttygogo
BTW: if you believe it so reprehensible finding opportunity to use this as political damage, why are you in full message mode with blame the local government? In fact, why are you making any kind of political commentary whatsoever?
14 - Eric Berlin
It's ironic that "don't politicize" is in itself a political ploy, isn't it?
Don't think that Bush invented it, thuogh. It's an old one.
15 - John A. Conley
"...there's a big difference between righteous anger and the dehumanizing personal attacks which characterize the current left."
Excuse me? This is not personal attacks. This is frustration over public policy and a clear right wing agenda that is doing nothing for middle and lower class Americans.
In response to your reply to Kitty, people may not die from starvation in 3 days but diabetics die after 3 days without insulin. As for everyone else, even if they had a full meal the day before the hurricane, when they are told by officals to go a specific place and they would treated and cared for there, and not given food, water, and medical supplies, it is nothing short of negligence, if not manslaughter. A article you might intresting I came upon tonight is this.
16 - Dave Nalle
>>It's just plain wrong to take these statements and hail them as a mantra of "the culture of the left."
The majority of the statements you mention are fringe-left people commenting on blogs. <<
I believe I did say that they weren't the only opinions out there on the left, but they are more and more strident and most on the left just go along with them.
>>Do you really want me / someone to dig up statements by the right?
Surely you know how easy that would be.<<
Sure, go ahead. I'm sure there are some. It doesn't seem to be as pervasive or as vicious - not even on FreeRepublic where there are a pack of real asses.
>>This leads to my point: what's your point? There's always going to be anger from the far right and left. It doesn't reflect the views of the vast majority of people.<<
My point is that I think it's infecting more and more of the left. Otherwise reasonable people are taking these peopel seriously. Krugman and Floyd are NYT columnists and they're not alone.
Dave
17 - Eric Berlin
Personally, I think that Krugman's been right on the money of late, as he usually is, particularly on matters of economics.
There are people on this site you easily match the level of discouse you present above. If you can't take it for granted that there's more-or-less the same level of vitriol on the extremes of both sides (with one party in majority control of all branches, by the way) it's hard to even go further in discussing this with you.
18 - Eric Berlin
Meant to say "...who easily match" above.
19 - Bob A. Booey
This is such cheap, manipulative drivel.
If you really want to take the worst, most vicious, most idiotic comments from both sides in the wake of tragedy, that's not going to reflect too well on all the "black people are inferior n**gers and deserve it" and "you're a goddamn commie pussy" posts in the last few days either.
Frankly, Dave, for someone who's so intent on portraying themselves as a conservative intellectual (especially as a former teacher), I'd think this would be beneath you. When you were a teacher, did you focus on the very worst examples of students with disciplinary and academic problems in describing your classes as a whole?
People who call others "cunt" (hi, RJ) and "shit" aren't "the Left" or even political. They're angry, bitter people whose "politics" are only a veneer for their rage and frustration. They swear and get angry because they can't argue.
Speaking of which, Dave, the fact that you'd just make this an excuse to beat up on easy targets and pick the worst strawmen to represent "the Left" makes me think that your politics is what I've always suspected: a removed, even inhumanly hateful and outraged (but ultimately directionless) mind turned against all manner of phantom targets representing "the Left" which have nothing really to do with any reality. You're fairly smart and intelligent, but reason and objectivity have no role in your idea of political discourse, from what I've seen. You may use big words like I do and do some research, but your ultimate conclusions and gut emotions betray you as just as much a slave to your passions as the people you hate so much.
These people aren't even involved in politics. You've worked in real politics and presumably are familiar with campaigns where whisper campaigns and slanderous rumors go way beyond "shrub" and "chimp." Neither you nor the President are political naifs, Pollyannas who are shocked at how ugly people can be because of how sweet and loving you are.
How can you do something so good one minute like donate money to the Red Cross and post such divisive, hateful scorched-Eart political posts and opinions like "we shouldn't help Africa with food or HIV/AIDS assistance" BS the next? You undermine what moral credibility you have (and you gained respect from me to the extent I stood up for you) when you revert to stuff like this.
Dave, let's be honest for a second here. You thrive on hate and anger -- that's what makes you an interesting writer and commenter. But you know very well that the "evil" you're chasing and protesting against is as much in your own head as it is out there.
I see you write a lot about the things you hate, but what do you love? Let's see the opposite of hate from Dave Nalle -- I see a lot of comments about who's an idiot and who's lying and who's a traitor and who's distorting facts. I see very little about the things Dave Nalle believes in and values. I see very few hints that something like love, forgiveness or compassion is operative in Dave Nalle's "system" of viewing the world or politics. If you're going to go for the moral high ground and claim to be offended, you have to have some positive value that has been sullied. In other words, you have to believe in something other than a general kneejerk reaction to "socialism" and "bad government." For example, you go as far as to call this administration pathologically deceitful and even "schizophrenic," yet you ultimately conclude with its conclusions in almost every issue of importance and give them a moral pass.
The one issue I did think you had moral regard for that we agreed on, intervention in the genocide in Darfur, you now back off of.
What DO you believe in besides the stupidity of the Left and the moral error of vicious Internet folks? What do you believe is a moral good? What policies should we have (or not have) in American government that would be more moral and help others? If government's not the answer, then you can answer the same for society.
You have to realize that something like this, associating people with genuine disagreements about policy with the worst examples of Internet discourse, is NOT doing anything to help you achieve more reasonable discussions with the potential for agreement.
That is all.
20 - Bob A. Booey
Who the hell is "the Left" anyway?
And who do you stand with?
These are such sloppy emotional misgivings from a man who takes such care to point out the illogical views of others.
That is all.