Perhaps people care more about Al Gore's celebrity status than his message?
Recently, The Sun — hardly the most erudite or sophisticated of Britain's newspapers, I grant you — published a feature article entitled "Why is TV more keen on Paris Hilton than on saving the planet?" Actually, it's not so much an article as a write-up of an interview with none other than Al Gore.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Clavos
OK zing, I understand what you're looking for now.
You ask:
"1. is the probability of a worldwide economic depression scary enough that the possibility of disease, famine, destruction, war AND economic depression sounds like a risk worth taking?"
First, as I've said in other comments, I believe the theories of the contrarians more than those of the "99.98%" of the world's climatologists.
As such, I don't characterize my position as "hoping for the best," because I'm confident that the ".02%" are right.
Therefore, luck has nothing to do with it, IMO.
27 - zingzing
so you're willing to risk the future of human civilization on the planet earth because of your BELIEF in the THEORIES of .02% of the earth's climatologists?
are you a christian?
i mean shit... in choice #1, we have a possible economic depression (and a possible economic upsurge that frees us of middle eastern oil). in choice #2, we have the total collapse of civilization.
and this just for right now... what do you think will happen far into the future if we continue down this path? that the earth will right itself? that our continued choking of our atmosphere won't have some disastrous effect?
besides what you consider "scaremongering," would you support efforts to make our human activities "greener?" i see relatively few downsides.
28 - zingzing
"Therefore, luck has nothing to do with it, IMO."
that's a real selfish attitude to take. and also totally false. YOU DON'T KNOW if your side is right. i don't know if mine is either. but the risks of your side being wrong FAR OUTWAY the risks of my side being wrong.
if you're not totally evil, you are at least easily taken... possible gullible. that last one could be said of me as well, but i certainly don't take humanity's future lightly (or for granted).
29 - Clavos
"YOU DON'T KNOW if your side is right"
That sounds like that old philosophical discussion college sophomores are wont to indulge in: "You can't KNOW anything."
Taken to the nth meaning of the word "know," you're right.
But, I AM convinced by the scientists I side with that they ARE right.
If that's "selfish," then I guess I am (though I fail to see that).
I don't think I'm gullible, so in your view, I guess I'm "evil," though I don't think I am.
In short I simply DON"T BELIEVE that humanity's future is in the balance.
"are you a christian?"
No, I'm not religious.
"besides what you consider "scaremongering," would you support efforts to make our human activities "greener?""
In principle, yes, but I would like us to consider each proposal to do so on a case-by-case basis, with a great deal more input from the public than is currently being considered.
And I support unconditionally (well almost) efforts to wean US off imported oil; I would like nothing better than for US to quit buying oil from the likes of the House of Saud and Hugo Chavez.
30 - zingzing
"But, I AM convinced by the scientists I side with that they ARE right."
then you are easily taken. how can you be convinced? i'm not 100% convinced by the scientists who say we're in trouble...
i don't think you're convinced at all. i just think you're hopeful. or something.
"In short I simply DON"T BELIEVE that humanity's future is in the balance."
well, ok then. but that's a mighty big risk to take.
there's a lot of scientists who say that there is no connection between smoking and lung cancer as well. who knows? they might be right. but everyone knows that smoking isn't good for you. the earth's the same way. maybe there isn't a connection between pollution and global warming. but pollution isn't good for the earth either.
now, i'm sure you're all for cutting pollution. who wouldn't be?
and how is cutting pollution any different from what the "scaremongering" environmentalists want you to do?
31 - Clavos
"i don't think you're convinced at all. i just think you're hopeful. or something."
zing you're usually a reasonable debater; and I enjoy our discussions, but that remark is just flat-ass presumptuous and arrogant; you cannot possibly "know" what I do or do not think, particularly on the internet.
I'm dumbfounded and disillusioned...
32 - RJ
The most recent warming period, which was during the Middle Ages (the Medieval Warming), triggered a significant spurt in agricultural yields, thus helping to improve diets and longevity. Today's theory postulates that the rise in temperatures will harm agriculture and reduce crop yields.
Good point, Clavos.
I encourage all you Gaia-worshipping "Gorons" to take a moment out of your busy day and actually look at a world map. You might notice that a vast portion of the Earth's land is located in the Northern Hemisphere. And a lot of that land is in the extreme higher latitudes. (Alaska, Canada, Greenland, Iceland, Scotland, Scandinavia, Russia, etc.)
Currently, not a whole lot of agricultural activity can take place in these regions, due to the fact that it is really fucking cold up there for a large portion of the year. But if the Earth warms a few degrees, over many decades, this massive landmass could quite likely become the breadbasket of the world.
And more habitable all around, too. You'll note that places like Alaska, northern Canada, Greenland, Iceland, Siberia, etc. are rather sparsely populated. There's a reason for that. It's fucking cold! But if it wasn't as cold, more people will be able to live there, thus perhaps helping to mitigate any future population pressures in an overcrowded world.
Global warming? Bring it on!!!
33 - RJ
I believe GreenPeace itself admitted that "natural" factors (like volcanoes and forest fires) contribute 30 times more CO2 to the atmosphere than human activity does.
And CO2 is a relatively minor "greenhouse gas."
Oh. And Red China and India are exempt from Kyoto.
- - -
Greens are nothing but watermelons. They are "green" on the outside in an effort to appeal to the masses, but they are deep, dark Red on the inside. You'll note that Green parties (which are international, much like the Comintern) have become much more popular ever since overt Communism fell out of vogue in the late 1980s and early 1990s.
Greens quite simply seek to restrict and regulate the free market. They want to limit growth and restrain capitalism. That is their goal. And if these scaremongers have to lie and exaggerate and come up with "end-of-the-world" nonsense in order to win support, they will do so. Gleefully. Much like their ideological predecessors did...
34 - RJ
"To draw a parallel: we would not be here discussing this if it were not for the profound effect living organisms had on the atmosphere billions of years ago, excreting the oxygen on which all modern animals depend."
That change took literally hundreds of millions of years. And it happened naturally, without human intervention.
Al Gore would have us believe that humans alone are capable of utterly devastating the planet in as little as ten years, simply by driving SUVs (while he travels on private jets), and living in houses with electricity (while just one of his mansions consumes the energy of 20 average homes).
And just how many trees were cut down to print his shitty book?
35 - STM
Of course global warming is real, even if The Sun says it is. Normally, The Sun saying something is reall would be good cause to doubt it. Still ...
Doubters should come down this neck of the woods and see for themselves. This sun-baked continent is getting hotter and hotter, with bizarre patterns of weather causing all kinds of problems. The water temperature over winter for the past few years has been close to that of summer. We've even had to contend with a hole in the Earth's ozone layer over the southern hemisphere for the past 20 or so years, which has given us the world's highest incidence of skin cancer (fluorocarbons, but now diminishing).
However, whether it all carbon-related is another matter. According to the CSIRO, Australia's premier scientific research organisation, some of it probably is, but not all - and the doomsday scenario may not be that just yet.
One day though, if we don't pay attention, we might well and truly stuff it up for good.
36 - RJ
Global warming is happening, and has been happening for a few decades. (And before that, global cooling was occurring for a few decades...)
The questions are:
Is human activity causing it? Y/N
If yes, can humanity prevent it? Y/N
If yes, just how many of us must live without air conditioning/live without cars/live without 24-7 access to the Internet/move back to the caves/die in miserable squalor in order to accomplish that?
Meanwhile, Red China and India (or in other words, 2.5 billion people, or roughly 40% of the world's population) are gonna ignore every single request/plea/demand from the "green" West, while they rapidly grow their economies on dirty coal and poisoned rivers/lakes.
37 - Dr Dreadful
Truth is, the atmosphere is such a complex, dynamic and poorly understood entity that there's really no telling what it will do.
For instance, rising ocean temperatures might fundamentally alter the flow of sea water, shutting off the North Atlantic current and thereby depriving Western Europe of its mild climate. Ports would be frozen shut in winter and huge fleets of icebreakers would be needed to keep imports and exports flowing.
Even if we accept that our activities are causing warming, we don't really know what effect, if any, remedial action on our part will have. We run the risk of bollixing things up even worse than they already are.
Arrrgh.
38 - Mark Edward Manning
RJ: "Meanwhile, Red China and India (or in other words, 2.5 billion people, or roughly 40% of the world's population) are gonna ignore every single request/plea/demand from the "green" West, while they rapidly grow their economies on dirty coal and poisoned rivers/lakes."
Exactly. We exempted them from Kyoto because there's no way they'd have agreed to it. It's simply much easier to brow-beat the U.S. instead, it's the world's favorite activity.
39 - moonraven
I don't know if browbeating the US is the world's favorite activity--but it SHOULD be.
40 - zingzing
"you cannot possibly "know" what I do or do not think, particularly on the internet."
you're the one who brought up how it is that you can or cannot "know" something. ok, i "believe" that you are just hopeful. and i think it is "arrogant" (and dangerous) for you to put so much faith (i mean, look at what hangs in the balance) in scientists who claim that we can't "know" that we are the ones doing this to the climate.
augh. answer the rest of my comment. like that part about cutting pollution and saving the planet from man-made global warming being pretty much the same damn thing. if you want to put it down to wanting cleaner air, rather than saving the planet, that's fine with me.
41 - sr
RJ. It's hotter then dog crap every day as you know in The Sunshine State. I remember and old Buddy Holly song called Moonbeam. For some unknown reason a comment on this thread brought that to my attention. In a few hours I will be outside watching the bat's fly by.
42 - sr
Doc. Due to the fact I have A Phd in atmospheric science your logic is not logical. Of course the atmosphere is complexed. Should you consider the Alantic with the Pacific. Maybe. The reason's are many. A great example would be the case of Michael Jackson compaired with Paris Hilton. It is a very simple solution. I started drinking wine at 9am. Im just playing in the cat litter box eating toosie rolls. No I dont have a Phd. Im just a fucking drunk. Have a great weekend Doc and try to stay away from the atmosphere.
43 - sr
Mr Sing. Feel free to drop by my place tonight. It should be A great night for bat viewing and watching the moon.
44 - Dr Dreadful
sr. I don't know about you viewing bats. You are bats. It sounds kind of narcissistic.
45 - sr
Doc. THANK YOU SIR. MY WIFE ALSO THINKS IM BATTY. I MADE MILLIONS SELLING BATTY FINGER PUPPETS. NOW IM RETIRED AND MAKE BATTY DRINK'S FOR MYSELF AND EATING FRESH OYSTERS AND TOOSIE ROLLS OUT OF THE LITTER BOX.
46 - moonraven
Amazing the high quality of debate on this jerkoff site.
47 - Clavos
"Amazing the high quality of debate on this jerkoff site."
Particularly your comments, mr...
48 - moonraven
Keep on jerkin', clav
49 - Dr Dreadful
Moonraven:
I don't think I've ever commented directly to you on BC, mainly because you seem to operate on such a different wavelength to everyone else (me included) that I don't think it would be fruitful.
From some of the information you've shared on the site, I'll infer (if I may) that you must be at the very least in your mid-fifties. One would expect a level of maturity in your debating skills. Yet you respond to dissent like a 17-year-old who opted out of forensics. I disagree with a lot of what Dave and Clavos say as well. But they are decent gents who don't deserve the mixture of adolescent insults and thinly-veiled threats you habitually throw at them.
This has probably all been said to you before, and will probably have much the same effect. Like I said, it's hard to find your station on the dial. If you don't like the standard of debate on BC, then what are you doing here? This is just me, MR, but if I came across a site inhabited by a bunch of "jerkoffs", I wouldn't keep coming back for more...
50 - Clavos
The very reason I've stuck with BC for more than a year now is the opportunity to discuss with reasonable people from all over the world who hold differing points of view.
There are a number of sites on the web in which the participants mostly hold views similar (and in some cases, VERY similar) to mine. For the most part, after an initial browse, I quickly find them boring.
The same thing happens when I stand in front of my bathroom mirror and talk to myself...
51 - Dr Dreadful
Exactly, Clavos. And I don't think it's any coincidence that the folks who stick with BC are, for the most part, pretty decent sorts. The assholes quickly get bored and move on.
What's great about BC (especially the Politics section) is that your intellect is continually challenged just by posting a comment - even if you're not actually a contributor (which, BTW, is something I'm considering). You have to be prepared to defend your opinion because, in most cases, someone will come back at you with a well-reasoned dissent - and you won't necessarily have a whole bunch of like-minded people backing up your position.
I disagree with you about the bathroom mirror, though. I'm pretty scintillating company. ;-)
52 - Clavos
"I'm pretty scintillating company."
Hmm. You DO have a cool sense of humor, though.
As you said to mr, Doc, we don't always agree...:>)
53 - Dr Dreadful
we don't always agree...:>)
Yes we do! (No we don't) Yes we do...
Reminds me of that Monty Python skit where a bloke pays to have an argument and instead gets a guy who just contradicts everything he says.
Speaking of people getting bored and moving on, we don't seem to have heard from MBD recently. He disappeared at about the same time as that troll who got banned for impersonating everyone and making personal attacks. I wonder if it was him?
54 - Zedd
Clavos, DD,
I think MR is hilarious!!
I think she objects in her own way. Her initial post is typically quite poignant and speaks to the issue at hand. Its only when she is challenged especially by you Clav that she flies off (which I love because she is absolutely unequivocally talented at being absolutely rude). Its rare to encounter a female who is so comfortable at being directly insulting without being emotional. She has massive balls and is funny.
I get embarrassed easily and some of her comments make me blush but for some reason, I end up laughing out loud.
I think she is clever and unique and a great addition to this mix of individuals that we get to converse with.
I'll take her any day to RJ and sr.
Besides I think you have a secret crush on her Clav. You got sort of weird when she disappeared. Now you are back with your zingers and I'm enjoying the entire thing.
55 - Dave Nalle
Dr. D., I do hope you'll get motivated and contribute. The Politics section has been a bit slow lately, and I can't make up the deficit myself, and with less activity every Mike Green article gets more attention, thereby bringing armageddon a little bit closer.
Dave
56 - RJ
"I started drinking wine at 9am. Im just playing in the cat litter box eating toosie rolls. No I dont have a Phd. Im just a fucking drunk. Have a great weekend Doc and try to stay away from the atmosphere."
I love you, sr.
(In a purely platonic way, I promise...) :-/
57 - moonraven
I have made it clear in the past why I pass through this site. I believe in being as rude as possible to rightwing extremists. Especially since rightwing extremists are paid to post obnoxious racist comments on the progressive sites where I post REAL commentary.
It's tit for tat--and mine are big.
58 - Clavos
"It's tit for tat--and mine are big."
You're 62 years old - who cares???
59 - moonraven
You, apparently, of sex-starved one.
60 - moonraven
OOOOH sorry for the typo: OH sex-starved one.
61 - Clavos
The bigger they are, the further they fall; especially at 62.
No thanks; the image alone is a turnoff.
62 - moonraven
Some folks--especially those who are not trailer trash and who have spent a lot of time teaching and practising dance--have tits that have NOT fallen at 62.
Why not harrass Soophia Loren for awhile--she's in her 70s, I believe.
Good luck, sucker.
63 - Clavos
Yeah, sure. And I've got some great waterfront land in the 'glades to sell you.
In any case wench, you're at least 15 years older than anyone I'm interested in.
As to La Loren:
She might object to being addressed as Soophia, don't you think?
64 - RJ
I have made it clear in the past why I pass through this site. I believe in being as rude as possible to rightwing extremists. Especially since rightwing extremists are paid to post obnoxious racist comments on the progressive sites where I post REAL commentary.
It's tit for tat--and mine are big.
Mr. Christopher Rose:
What we have here is a clear admission from the poster that his/her entire purpose in coming to BlogCritics and posting comments here is to insult other posters, which is in direct violation of the Official BlogCritics Comments Policy.
You have a monopoly on the Ban Hammer. You own it. Now, use it.
Can I get an amen?
65 - Clavos
...Or better yet Chris, a "Moonraven Exception," wherein she becomes fair game to receive as much (and as raw) as she dishes out?
Think of the entertainment value!
What fun!!
66 - troll
here we go again with the banning bullshit...fascistas
if you don't appreciate her pov and brilliant commentary then think of her as a charity case like sr
67 - moonraven
Ban me, you imbeciles!
But remember, that leaves you beating off to Nalle's posts--not to the image of 40DDs.
68 - troll
earth mother - !
69 - moonraven
If I am the earth mother, I have to say that your heedless species has beaten my baby to a bloody pulp.
70 - troll
take heart...2012 is just around the corner
71 - moonraven
I DO take heart in that.
Perhaps I will even do what one of the professors who worked for me at UMAR Puerto Angel did--he painted the glyph for the 13th baktun on his front gate....
72 - Clavos
Aahh, what a good psychiatrist could get out of mr's comments...
Example:
"...one of the professors who worked for me..."
People who are not insecure and are confident of their own worth would have written:
"...one of my colleagues..."
But mr is always compelled to brag to us about her "accomplishments." Her need for self-aggrandizement is obvious in most of her comments.
Pathetic.
73 - moonraven
No one could be more secure of my own worth.
That's why I couldn't care less about your disgusting little life.
74 - Andy Marsh
All I know is that 20 or so years ago it was global cooling...now it's global warming...what's next?
75 - moonraven
Oh, just let it come as a surprise....