In Mid September of this year, throngs gathered at the United Nations to rally for slavery reparations from the United States government. International guests harking from such law-abiding and justice-seeking nations as Zimbabwe, Libya, Angola, Cuba, Namibia, and Nigeria were in attendance at the event.
In Mid September of this year, throngs gathered at the United Nations to rally for slavery reparations from the United States government. International guests harking from such law-abiding and justice-seeking nations as Zimbabwe, Libya, Angola, Cuba, Namibia, and Nigeria were in attendance at the event. Speakers included Ron Walters, Louis Farrakhan, and NYC Councilman Charles Barron. Dozens of fringe groups like the Friends of Zimbabwe and The National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America (N’COBRA) sponsored the rally. Thousands also attended last year’s Millions For Reparations Mass Rally, held on August 17, 2002, in Washington, D. C.…
Article comments
26 - Eric Olsen
I said racism is real and the legacy of slavery enduring. This is why I have always favored affirmative action. But it is very difficult to fairly transport guilt and privilege from groups to individuals and vice versa. And fairness is what we are talking about. That is why I think the time has come to move beyond race to address underprivilege in education and health in general in an effort to level the field for individuals rather than classes of people.
27 - FilteringCraig
Not once did I say there was no merit to the long-term negative effects of slavery that are no doubt still in existence today. What I was saying is that maybe we ought to consider a lot of the programs that are already in place today, a part of the reparations, because in my mind, they could already be taking place. It's not like we don't have programs. True maybe we need more, but let's not forget that we have been moving on this to a certain extent for a long time.
28 - TDavid
Mac Diva - One way conversations seem to be your speciality. I really don't know why I'm bothering to type this because since it makes sense, you'll probably just blow it off.
Since you act like you are so enlightened on this subject, but rarely back it up when people challenge you directly (instead you run away and hide claiming that those who oppose you "can't grasp the subject" or are "bigots"), then please calmly, rationally and without personal attack educate me as to [b]how as a white male, directly or indirectly, I've [b]benefitted[/b] from discrimination?[/b]
I said above that I had an open mind on this reparations thing and I do, but I'd like to hear some facts without BS, and since you continue to write on and on about this, you ought to be able to give me some concise, logical answers with necessary third party, unbiased data that I can verify and validate.
Today I see lots of reverse discrimination for white males in mid to large contracting jobs where a minority owner (black, woman, asian, hispanic, etc) can get bid preference over a white male. Why should any jobs be bid out this way? I'm not in the contracting business but if I was, I think I'd be a bit miffed about this.
Discrimination has started to swing back the other direction, IMO, and it is people with a point of view like yourself that seem to keep pushing for more and more from an essentially bankrupt account.
People expecting hardworking taxpayers like me to fill hands up with $$$ when the dollars are in shorter supply. If I don't want to do that without receiving a good explanation why, then I'm labeled something awful like a bigot or treated like some terrible, insensitive person. Is that really accurate?
That's just an illogical way to deal with an issue -- any issue. Especially when the hand is out looking for money, it should first explain why it can't make its own money and why it's so necessary for me to add to the charity account.
I see these reparations as charity and I don't think that's the right way to look at it, but sorry, I need more data to understand where this is so necessary.
So please just for a brief minute try and analyze my question without inserting a bunch of BS opinions and I'll be happy to listen and respond respectfully. I bet others would too. You act like you never pick fights when in fact in many threads lately, you have clearly been the aggressor.
The problem with you isn't always what you say, Mac Diva (though lately it is), it's usually how you say it. It's the little things you add to the end of what you are trying to say that get your point lost in a personal attack. For a writer where words are so vital, this seems like a very glaring error on your part.
Or maybe "why" is just too complicated a question here, and this will be ignored like most good, logical questions that are asked of you seem to be.
I won't hold my breath.
Maybe somebody else can explain this to me in more depth.
Thank you in advance :-)
29 - Dew
Craig,
I would have to disagree since for a long time Blacks were not allowed participation in these programs. Our oppression did not stop when the slaves were freed. The only reason the Civil Rights Movement was so effective was because the Black dollar was recognized as being every bit as green as the White dollar not because we were recognized as human beings.
I am not trying to nitpick here but you can not be knocked backwards from a position you were not ever in. We have not ever had equal footing, therefore all the programs designed to help 'people' in general still put us four steps behind. That is why there needs to be programs for those who were directly affected by slavery so they can be allowed to catch up.
I have not picked the first bail of cotton. I do not know what it is like to have someone take away from me the most innate civil liberties I take for granted. And I agree that for the most part reparations is charity. But this country (not just the South) benefitted from the labor and inventions of African Slaves. No restitution was ever made for these wrongdoings. The effects of that are still trying to be overcome. No it is not fair for you to have to pay for something that is not your fault but its not fair for me to have fight three times as hard just to be on level playing ground. The ramifications of slavery are so wide spread that it can not be trivialized by saying 'get over it'.
Does every person who has dark skin deserve a handout? No. But today if I go anywhere and do a job I am compensated for my services. If that company withholds my funds they can be held liable not only for what they owe but for interest on the time it was withheld. Today, if someone was found guilty of enslavement they would be held responsible physically and financially. If they were unaccountable their next of kin would incur the debt. How is this situation any different? The owners of slaves families' are still spending slave money find them and hold them accountable but something should be done rather than shrugging it off as a goof of yesteryear.
Debbie does have a point in that a relationship should exist in order to warrant helping those in need. I would have thought being that these are your fellow countrymen that would be enough, but I assume that is too much like right. Imagine if all military personnel looked through those eyes.
30 - debbie
"Today, if someone was found guilty of enslavement they would be held responsible physically and financially. If they were unaccountable their next of kin would incur the debt. How is this situation any different?"
What state is this in? You cannot force hold the next of kin accountable for any debt let alone criminal debt. The only instance that it might apply is a spouse might be accountable for a debt that his/her spouse incurred before dying. Anything but a spouse and it isn't happening. Any outstanding debts are paid by the estate of the deceased.
We have programs in place to give a helping hand to the underprivleged. Those come out of my taxes to help my "fellow countrymen" and I'm ok with that. I want to have a safety net to help out those that need it. We also have laws on the books to prosecute those that practice racial discrimination. I'm fine with these too, I glad that we have them because there will always be the few idiots in society.
I don't have a problem with any of that, but I do have a problem with being punished for something that I did not do.
31 - TDavid
debbie raises a good point. The estate tax, for those who pass the wealth threshold/exemption, is the greatest tax gift those that pass for delivery to the rest of the country (this is of course assuming that the government spends these tax dollars responsibly and it is my contention that they do not do). That tax can be as high as 55% of the entire value of the estate and is payable within 9 months after the death -- in cash.
Husband can leave to wife, but wife dies it goes to estate or to trust fund. And there is still a taxable event.
So to presume that those who die do not give back to others in this country could be flawed, depending on the size of their estate. The exemptions, last time I checked for husband and wife were around 1.2 million dollars.
Now, before anybody says, wait, most people don't have that kind of wealth in their estate when they die think about those 1-3% who die with mega millions (or guys like Bill Gates who will die with billions, if he doesn't give it all away first).
The estate tax is one of the great equalizers in the tax system between the rich and poor. If they didn't give all their life, then a significant portion of their wealth will be absorbed after their death.
Now there are ways for the super rich to buy products like life insurance to pay off the estate tax, but there is no way to escape it if you pass the threshold. Legally, anyway.
Therefore, it is my position based on this that the government needs to balance the books and run the finances like a business. If we had excess money I'd be all for helping out as many different groups as possible, but we have a debt that continues to grow.
Someday that debt has to be evaluated. Under the Clinton presidency at least we heard about the debt. The Bush presidency has been on a spending spree. Yes, some of that spending was necessary, but what about the debt.
The economy is more important than reparations to African Americans. That's my current position. I'd be happy to discuss how the economy is not more important than reparations?
32 - Ron Mwangaguhunga
Thank you all for a serious discussion of this very important issue. BTW: I would not be against bringing suit against, say, Aetna Insurance or the Hartford Courant, who benefitted at the corporate level from slavery. If a descendant of slaves were to bring PRIVATE suit against these companies that redress is not incompatible with my beliefs.
33 - Al Barger
Diva, could you please elucidate about the "BBBBs (Buffoonish Band of Bigoted Brothers)"? [comment #24] To wit, and what for, and break it on down for a Kentuckian.
What exactly do you think is the BBBB problem? Are they/we (I assume you consider ME a member) evil White Devils bent on subjugating and re-enslaving dark people?
Or is it that you think we're just stupid, too dumb to understand your great elucidations and sophisticated legal perspectives?
Is it that we're wicked or merely extraordinarily stupid? Enquiring honkies want to know!
34 - sasha
well so much for the comment policy.