The ACLU comes to Fort Collins, Colorado, and loses the latest battle in the War on Christmas.
Much like the Christmas shopping season, the ACLU's War on Christmas begins earlier and earlier every year. This year in Fort Collins, Colorado, the city council decided to revise their policies to honor appropriately the holiday that almost ninety percent of America celebrates as Christmas. A task force was drawn up, given their task, and put to work.…
Article comments
26 - Lee Richards
A number of the faithful in America--who want to be noticed--seem to have joined together to form the Church of Christian Politics, and their doctrines include prayer in school, posting commandments on public buildings, nativity scenes on courthouse lawns, winning elective office, etc.
They love their "war on Christmas"; it gives them publicity and status as fighters for freedom of religion, crusaders against infidels, and defenders of the faith. They are the only enlightened and elect ones among us;surely we can see their holiness and righteousness.
We can't? Then to hell with us (as their Bible says.)
Christmas, for some, is a celebration of the birth of an ideal that many people want to embrace and live up to. (it's also a secular holiday for many others.) It is sacriligious and coldly calculating by the members of the Church of Christian Politics to use that ideal to push their theocratic agenda, and to equate its meaning with displays of trees, lights, and mangers on public property.
27 - Baritone
Diana,
Again, as has been commented above, the so-called war on christmas is limited to government involvement - using tax payer dollars, using public facilities and equipment to promote or "celebrate" if you will, a religious observance.
Virtually every city and town across the country has some kind of decorations and events connected with christmas and other religious holidays. Most have gone to limiting decorations to the secular side of christmas - emphasizing Santa Claus, wintery scenes, multi colored lights, snowmen and so forth. Some get close to or even cross the line into the religious side of the observance. Most such transgressions are let slide. Some not.
There are no legal limitations - as regards religious content - for private individuals, all manner of groups, clubs, etc., and commercial enterprizes. Hell, the malls and other stores start playing christmas music and selling ornaments and trees and wrapping paper in October for christ's sake. But, do even the most devout christians really need a nativity scene on the courthouse lawn or at city hall? Will the absence of such really make someone feel more lonely and forlorn? The lights will be lit, the bells will be jingling and the Ho, Hos a Hoing. Believers can easily turn to their church, their fellow believers, their homes or their local Chic Fil-A for religious sustenance and succor.
B-tone
28 - Diana Hartman
from the perspective of someone who sees the whole thing as mythological and fun instead of as some literal translation of yet more religious drudgery, i see no difference between christmas trees, santas, elves, lights, wreaths and nativity scenes...to me they're all the same: representative of good will and cheer...
it doesn't matter to me whether it's private citizens or the government doing it because it's all part of the decor o' the holiday season...
i rather dislike the idea of a government building going dark over the holidays (read: without decor) because it's so - you know, dark...
the only exception i could possibly take with government decor is if they were to erect a nativity scene to the exclusion of all other forms of decor...that would definitely send a clear cut message, and that message is exclusatory (?) to anyone who celebrates a secular christmas...to that end, if christ's christmas is really all about joy and good will, then no good christian should have an issue with candy canes and lots of colorful ribbon...
it's not like christmas decorations stay up all year, like that judge who wanted to keep the 10 commandments up all year round...that's religious text, not decor, with direct reference to a particular dogma - a big constitutional no-no...
i like the way germany does it...every imaginable kind of christmas decor literally drapes cities and villages throughout the season as one christmas market after another graces a city or village's market place...they've got the perfect combination and tolerance for both religious and secular celebration...i loved it...i wish the united states would get a grip on itself and do the same...
a nativity never hurt anyone anymore than a string of candy canes hurt anyone...it's the one time of year when religious folk can actually redeem themselves by chilling the hell out and having a good time, feeding their neighbors and singing good tidings to each other...
jesus gift-wrapping christ, decorate to your heart's content and someone please leave a bmw under the tree for me...
29 - Dave Nalle
Ah, but isn't a so-called 'secular' display of 'Satan Claws' actually a secret recognition of the pagan gods the jolly round figure is derived from?
Dave
30 - Dave Nalle
BTW, great Chic-fil-A reference, Diana. Most people aren't aware of the creepy Christian policies of that restaurant chain. Most of them just stay away because the chicken tastes like cigarette ashes.
Dave
31 - RJ
On my Christmas list this year, item #2 is that every leftist atheist communist lawyer in the ACLU contracts SARS and dies. (Item #1 is a Wii.)
32 - John Bambenek
To all those that think the government celebrating and recognizing the culture of its people is somehow crafting a theocracy...
You're planning on working 8 hours on Christmas, right? If religion is merely some private thing that may not be spoken in public, you're going to your jobs to be productive citizens I presume? Because I'd hate for my tax dollars to go to you sitting around all day.
33 - Lee Richards
#31:
Does God tell you to wish disease and death on others for his holiday, or is it your own idea?
#32:
There's so much flawed reasoning here, I leave it to others to comment on it all. I'll just ask:Where does the nonsense about religion may not be spoken in public come from?
34 - handyguy
#31: Typical of RJ. He probably actually thinks it's witty, too.
Here's a [hopeless, I know] suggestion for him:
He should try [a] learning the truth about the ACLU and [b] admitting he doesn't know anything about them when he writes #31 and other ignorant comments.
The ACLU's [very non-partisan, non-communist, non-atheistic] web site lists all the cases they're currently involved in, and states their principles quite clearly. Clearly enough so that even RJ and Bambenek can understand. If they are genuinely fond of freedom and democracy, they may be shocked to learn how many of the cases they agree with the ACLU on.
Will RJ do this? No, of course not, because, like the much-despised writer of this article, he is more interested in insulting people for alleged comic effect, and in spreading lies, than he is in learning or discussing the truth.
35 - Baritone
RJ,
Your wishes are truly in keeping with the holiday spirit. And may the same come to you and yours.
Merry XMas!
B-tone - A leftist, athiest - non communist, non-lawyer and not an active participant with the ACLU, but one who shares their concerns and supports many (not all) of their actions.
36 - REMF
Re #31;
"...leftist atheist communist lawyer..."
Sounds like Roy Black, the bleeding-heart liberal who helped Rush Limbaugh beat the doctor-shopping charges...
37 - Baritone
Seems like I'm always hearing about how "hateful" we liberals are. Then I read the kind of crap spit out above from the "loving" right wing gestapo dogs. Makes me all warm and runny inside.
B-tone
38 - Lumpy
Not 'hateful' 'hate filled'. I can see how u might confuse the two.
39 - alessandro
i don't know anything about the ACLU firsthand - only what i read since i'm a lowly Canadian. However, there IS some kind of righteous battle out there to remove all symbols that refer to something we call christmas.
every year it seems someone somewhere wants to teach christians some sort of "lesson."
to suggest this is a paranoid "plot" is plain off based. Right here in my town wal-mart employees were specifically instructed to not say "merry christmas" or "joyeux noel" by some idjit pygmy manager.
there are loonie a-holes out there and i could care less about what stripes they wear.
now can someone please explain to me this 'ho,ho,ho' thing in australia? some psychologist hack says kids are less threatened by 'ha,ha,ha?'
man, i must have suffered some trauma growing up. i was circumcised AND santa told me i was a 'ho,ho,ho!'
40 - RJ
"Does God tell you to wish disease and death on others for his holiday, or is it your own idea?"
A little of both, really.
41 - Baritone
Yes, the loving god of abraham, the father of jesus christ, the lord and saviour of all true believers wants all others to die a long, painful death and then eternally burn in hell for the transgression of not acknowledging his fucking supremacy. Your god can kiss my ass!
B-tone
42 - RJ
You're making my point, B-tone...thx.
43 - Dr Dreadful
Oh, I do hope RJ gets his Wii. It might distract him from posting his pointless drivel on here.
44 - Baritone
No, RJ, I'm not. Am I angry? Yes. Do I hate? For the most part, no. All of us can point to something or someone we truly "hate." But hate, like most other superlatives is over used. I "hate" to go to the mall. I "hate" the Patriots, or the Yankees. I don't hate christians, nor do I hate conservatives. If I "hate" anything, it's religion in general and stupidity in particular. I come closest to hating opportunistic evangelists and perhaps someone of Ann Coulter's or Rush Limbaugh's ilk. I come very close to hating islamic leaders who actively recruit their young men and women - often more like boys and girls - to become suicide bombers. There are now segments amongst the youth of many muslim populations who eagerly aspire to being martyrs with visions of those 72 virgins dancing in their heads. I don't know what they promise the women who strap on the suicide vests - 72 swingin' dicks?
B-tone
45 - REMF
"I come closest to hating opportunistic evangelists and perhaps someone of Ann Coulter's or Rush Limbaugh's ilk."
Two of RJ's sacred cow(ard)s ....
46 - Franco
#41 "Baritone
Your god can kiss my ass!
He already has, that’s the point!
47 - Dave Nalle
Baritone, if you can't find anyone better to hate than Limbaugh or even Coulter you need to get out more. They're just opportunistic media whores. If you want to hate someone on the right take a gander at James Dobson sometime.
Dave
48 - REMF
"Baritone, if you can't find anyone better to hate than Limbaugh or even Coulter you need to get out more."
B-tone;
Always nice to be judged on who to hate and advised to get out more by someone who lives in a fortified compound, ehe...?
49 - Baritone
Dave,
I'm fully aware of Dobson. He's a piece of work. A true hypocrite.
While it's easy to dismiss assholes like Coulter and Limbaugh, the problem is, they still retain a large, and avid audience. They have considerable influence, if not in the upper echelons of government, then certainly with the Joe Six Packs, the evangelicals and their off-spring around the country.
What I find particularly odious about Limbaugh is how, in the past at least, he claimed that his schtick was just that, schtick. That his shows were meant to be entertainment, not to be taken seriously from a political perspective. He would say this while sporting a shit eating grin, knowing full well that the majority of his audience hung on his every word and considered it gospel.
Both he, Coulter, and I must admit, Michael Moore among others tend to make broad claims and accusations which at most are no more than half truths and often are just blatant lies. They know that they can do this with impunity because their devoted audience will assume that anyone who points out the discrepancies and lies are the very ones against whom the lies are aimed. Once people take their seat on board a train and it starts moving, they are loathe to jump off unless its clear that its plunging into the abyss is imminent, and sometimes, not even then. People have been jumping off the Bush train, but there are those who steadfastly remain on board choosing to ignore that the locomotive has no rails upon which to run.
B-tone
50 - Lumpy
Most of the complaints the left makes about Limbaugh are pretty baseless. His show is not really charactrrized by extremism or attack rhetoric. All In all he's pretty reasonable. Those who think otherwise have probably not listened to him.
You want offensiveness on the radio try Randi Rhoades.
51 - Dr Dreadful
Lumpy, quite honestly you could take your comment, switch the names of the two radio personalities you mention, and it would read quite reasonably to someone on the opposite end of the political spectrum from yourself.
I used to listen to Randi on the way home from work, so I know what you mean. I've not heard Limbaugh's radio show much but I have seen video of him doing some of his public speaking gigs and he really is a jerk, no two ways about it.
Personally, before our local Air America carrier switched to ESPN, I liked listening to Rachel Maddow.
52 - Baritone
Lumpy,
The only reason you think Limbaugh is "reasonable" is that you obviously agree with him. I noted that Michael Moore can be put under the same umbrella as Limbaugh and Coulter as regards his modus operandi. In point of fact, though, I tend to agree with most of Moore's positions, but I don't endorse his methods.
B-tone
53 - REMF
"Most of the complaints the left makes about Limbaugh are pretty baseless."
- Lumpy
So you support his draft dodging during Vietnam?