The original nationalist guise of the insurgency has been lost in favor of sectarian motivations and in-fighting.
Jordanian terrorist leader Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi was killed by U.S. Special Forces in an air attack on a house in Baghdad Wednesday night. He was considered the leader of the Sunni insurgency in Iraq, and allied with Al-Qaeda linked organizations. The Iraqi PM Nouri Maliki confirmed the news in a news conference along with U.S. military commander General Casey.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - Arch Conservative
suss
cindy sheehan called the terrorists in iraq "freedom fighters" and so many on the left idolize her and think she tells things like they really are
from where i sit there is no middle ground possible with people who think like this
77 - Matthew T. Sussman
So, that's what three people in the world?
78 - Ray Ellis
And Arch called for the "elimination" of Hilary Clinton before November 2006 in a related post. Where's the objectivity now, Arch?
79 - Dave Nalle
Gonzo, let's remind the armchair neocons about Iraq as well. Democratically elected Al-Jaafari was pressured out by the Americans in favor of this new guy Malicki. Yea, that's democrazy, American style, saving the world. Just make sure your country elects the "right" guy, or else....!!
Tommy, were you born this ignorant or do you have to work at it? What we established in Iraq is a parliamentary system. In that system you elect a representative and he then votes on the top leadership. Jaafari was picked that way as interim prime minister. Maliki was picked the same way for the more permanent PM position. Jaafari voluntarily chose not to run for PM again so that Mailiki could have the spot. They're pals. Maliki is Jaafari's second in command in the Dawa Party and his handpicked guy for the job. Jaafari declined to run for the PM slot because he had lost a lot of creditibilty with the Kurds and Sunnis during his 6 months in the office running the temporary government. You'll be sad, because like you Jaafaris is a raging socialist, which is about the best we can hope for with a lot of these Iraqi leaders because to get secularists we usually end up with socialists who've been indoctrinated in Europe.
Dave
80 - Dave Nalle
So, that's what three people in the world?
Take a jaunt over to Kos sometime and you'll find way more than three. And check out Nick Berg's father who is mourning the death of the guy who cut his son's head off.
Dave
81 - JustOneMan
Ruvy or should I call you KooKie!
#40 you cannot be serious...Bush did it for Osama??? Oh yea and all the Jews knew ahead of time and didnt go toi work at the world trade center on 911...
82 - JustOneMan
Silas Kain
You sound like you have been brought to your knees by a few hundred cowboys if ya know what I mean....
83 - JustOneMan
Ron...listen to Kookie I mean Ruvy...he on more than one occasion have stated what a shit of a country he lives in and how evil the politicians are...and since he has dual citizenship...due to the fact he cannot commit himself to making a decision and taking responsibility for it...he mantains his American citizenship so he can bash our government and leaders while he enjoys the BILLIONS of dollars in proping up their failing economy and send AMERICAN boys in harms way so he and his family can live a good life...
Just my opinion of course...
84 - Clavos
Dave,
I followed your link over to the AP article about Michael Berg's father; the man is unbelievable--how can he dishonor his son's memory that way?
If the people of Delaware elect that jerk, they need their heads examined.
85 - Arch Conservative
No one would have bothered Cindy Sheehan... we would have all let her mourn in peace but she had to open her piehole and demean this nation and the families of other soldiers, and start spewing anti-american, anti-semitic hatred.......
she deserves all the criticism and scorn that should come her way in the future
as for nick berg's dad... i just don't get it.........has his grief so destroyed this man's mental faculties to the point where some moonbat from answer or code pink can come along and wHisper "it's bush's fault no zawqris that your son is dead" in his ear and he believes it?
86 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
JOM,
The key phrase in that comment #40 is, "I would not be surprised". You get to learn a lot of very strange things that you never find out when you don't live here. Though that fat pig of an anti-Semite, Michael Moore, did flush out this fact about the Bush family and use it in his little hatchet job in 2004. A skunk making an idiot look like more of an idiot.
Is this speculaion of mine true? Dunno. I've seen stranger thngs happen in the Middle East.
Kookie, on the TV show "77 Sunset Strip", was a young man with a comb running through a thick head of hair. I ain't young, and I don't have no thick head of hair to run a comb through. The name just don't apply, JOM.
87 - Dave Nalle
How about Moondoggie, then?
Dave
88 - RogerMDillon
Ray, do NOT besmirch the good name of Space Ghost. Glad that Zarqawi is gone. I just hope we don't relive the tale of Hercules against the Hydra.
89 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
JOM,
On more than one occasion, I've also stated that your country is fighting the wrong war in the wrong country - because you are. Your real enemies in Arabia are in Riyadh, and their friends and relations are the ones who are causing lots of the trouble in Mesopotamia these days.
Or are you less intelligent than a camel, that you can't see that?
90 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Aaman,
Back to your original question at comment #11, the big news here was not al Zarqawi. It was the elimination of a Hamas terrorist. This account from CTV.ca was almost a thigh slapper. Typical of the brave Canadians (not to mention the rest of the mainstream media) they couldn't bring themselves to call this cockroach a terrorist. I do not know how many "gates of hell" we Israelis have opened up for ourselves by daring to eliminate these cockroaches from the ranks of the breathing and walking - it must be about 100 by now.
But our government will now have another excuse to wring their hands when some terrorist gets through somewhere and kills a bunch of people here. You can bet your bottom dollar (or rupee) that they will not do anything I recommend.
It might work!
91 - Aaman
Doesn't this act demonstrate Iraq's lack of sovereignty, being a US operation conducted on Iraqi soil?
92 - Victor Plenty
There's that, Aaman, but it's not so simple. Bush claims American forces will leave as soon as they're no longer needed and/or a legitimately elected Iraqi government asks us to withdraw our troops. The administration can also point to polls in which many Iraqi citizens say they don't want the Americans to leave just yet, much as they hate having foreign troops on their soil. On top of that there is a provision of international law (part of the Geneva Conventions if I recall correctly) which makes America responsible for maintaining order in the country we've invaded. It's sort of the "you break it, you bought it" rule of international relations.
All of this gives the terrorists a perfect opportunity to embarrass and humiliate America, if any of them had the brains God gave a fencepost.
The easiest and simplest plan for the terrorist forces would be to cease all operations in Iraq for at least two full years. Failing that, they should make absolutely sure they never cause even the slightest collateral damage to any target except the American occupying forces. If they stop slaughtering Iraqi civilians, killing Iraqi police officers, blowing up Iraqi politicians, and generally making life miserable for Iraqis, they might get someone other than the world's certifiable morons to believe they are really "freedom fighters."
Two full years of near-peace in Iraq, with reconstruction efforts moving ahead at full speed, would let ordinary Iraqis enjoy a much better standard of living than the state of borderline civil war they're suffering under now. More importantly (from the terrorist point of view) it would leave the Americans with no excuse for staying. The freely elected government of a peaceful and prosperous Iraq could ask the United States to withdraw all troops, and put Bush's promises to the test in front of the whole world.
Then we'd see just how true the administration's claims about Iraqi sovereignty are. If Bush refused to withdraw the troops from a stable and democratic Iraq, it would be a worse blow to his personal credibility than anything that has gone before, and more damaging to America's reputation than any other scandal or massacre that has happened so far.
I have no qualms about sharing this brilliant plan on a public forum where any terrorist might see it, because they're all too stupid and too drunken with the short term high of terrorizing civilians to consider such a long term plan that would require a tiny modicum of self-restraint and civilized behavior from them.
93 - troll
do you believe that security for the oil infrastructure will be left to the Iraqis in the foreseeable future - ?
troll
94 - Victor Plenty
What I believe is irrelevant. Right now the terrorists are giving Bush the excuse of claiming to need US troops in Iraq to protect its fledgling representative government and its people.
If they really wanted to prove he was lying about that, the terrorists would lie low for a couple of years, or maybe even pitch in and help make Iraq a better place to live for its ordinary citizens.
The fact that they refuse to do this only proves they are psychotic idiots, and proves nothing whatsoever about whether Bush's claimed motives are sincere or not.
95 - JustOneMan
Ruvy...enough of the mideast wisdom...lets not forget your just another guy from brooklyn....hmmm a Camel....at least a camel is capable of surviving in the desert on their own (no american welfare, food stamps...military protection)...unlike....you! Yea so maybe I am as smart as a camel!!!
96 - troll
Victor - *What I believe is irrelevant.*
how about what you think - ?
I'm not questioning Bush's motives - he is a mere cog who will be gone shortly
my question is - given world oil shortages and with so much $ to be made can the US allow the infrastructure in Iraq to go offline again
troll
97 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
JOM,
Enough of the Mideast wisdom eh? I am just another Brooklyn boy, as you say. But I picked up my ass and moved it east a bit. It's four in the afternoon here, not nine in the morning, and I can see a minaret in the distance, not The Parachute in Coney Island. And when I go to the Tayelet a half kilometer away or so, I see the golden dome on the Temple Mount, not the golden dome of the Williamsburgh bank.
But it's not the view and the scenery that buys the knowledge, JOM. It's coping with everything that is different here - including the knowledge that the electricity here could likely be cut off by a Qassam missile hitting the Ashkelon electric plant - something the two or three writers on Blog Critics who call Brooklyn home do not have to deal with...
Then there are those ten thousand missiles in southern Lebanon owned by Hizb Allah...
98 - Victor Plenty
Troll, Bush's motives are only a shorthand for the policy goals of the United States for being in Iraq. Either way it's phrased, my point remains the same. You have not offered any argument or fact that would cause me to reconsider it.
If the terrorists wanted to prove "Operation Iraqi Freedom" was really a war for oil, as you seem to be claiming, all they'd have to do is sit back and let America pour reconstruction money into Iraq for a couple of years, until it becomes a decent place for civilian life.
Then the world would see whether the stated American intention of withdrawing U.S. troops once they're no longer needed is really true or not.
99 - troll
agreed - I'm not making an argument but rather asking a question
troll
100 - Andy Marsh
And you know Bush's motives...how exactly? Are you a fly on the wall in the oval office?
101 - Aaman
"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting." (Bukowski)
102 - Victor Plenty
Andy, where did I ever claim to know Bush's motives?
What I've said is that the current terrorist strategy offers no way to test Bush's true motives (or the true American policy goal for being in Iraq, as a less personal way of phrasing it).
The terrorists justify their barbarism by claiming the Americans will never leave Iraq unless driven out by violent resistance. If they were smarter, they would put that claim to the test. Give Iraq two years of peace, then see whether the Americans leave as promised.
103 - Dave Nalle
Aaman, the attack that took out Zarqawi was a join US-Iraqi operation. While the bombs were American the troops which surrounded the village were from both nations and the Iraqis were the first ones in after the bombing to go through and round up any survivors.
Dave
104 - Andy Marsh
Victor - How about the first line of comment #98?
Troll, Bush's motives are only a shorthand for the policy goals of the United States for being in Iraq.
That would say to me and just about anyone that reads english that you know his motives...
You knew who I was talking about even though I never mentioned your name...maybe the comment wasn't addressed to you? But then again...you did state what his motives are...
105 - Jet in Columbus
Like a bad chess player, Bush only thinks one or two moves ahead. In this case he doesn't give a damn about his actions because the administration will be blamed for the delayed results. All he cares about is what he'll look like in the history books and right now it's just a sneering, smirking smart-ass with a bunch of prewritten comebacks that'll only get us deeper into war.
106 - Victor Plenty
No, Andy, I've never claimed to know Bush's motives. You only think I've done so because you've seen others do so, and you mistakenly think I resemble them. So I'll spell it all out for you.
When using the phrase "Bush's motives" in my comments here, I've been using that phrase as a shorthand for America's foreign policy goals. (Both of these in relation to the reason for putting U.S. troops into Iraq, in case the context hasn't made that clear enough.)
Everybody knows what Bush and other administration officials have openly stated about the reasons for America to invade Iraq. Everybody knows about their stated readiness to withdraw American forces once Iraq is stable and secure.
As you may have noticed, some claim these statements are false. Such people think Bush and his administration had other, secret motives for invading Iraq. Further, they claim these secret motives will cause the administration to keep American troops in Iraq indefinitely, no matter what may happen on the ground.
I have never claimed to know the truth of such competing interpretations of America's policy goals and/or Bush's personal motives.
Here is what I have said, in a nutshell: if the claims about the Bush administration's duplicity are true, then the so-called "insurgents" in Iraq could force Bush to show his hand, thus embarrassing and humiliating him and his allies before the entire world, by simply backing off and letting the people of Iraq have two years of peace and stability.
107 - Andy Marsh
Victor - in a nutshell...what you said is what I put in italics in my comment...you can try to change the wording any way you like...but I read what I read...and it seemed perfectly clear to me...now that you've muddied the water with all this...I'm not sure what the hell you said!
108 - Victor Plenty
Andy, what you put in italics was not a claim to knowing the substance of Bush's motives. It was a statement that the phrase "Bush's motives" is a shorthand phrase I've been employing as a reference to the larger topic of American foreign policy goals for being in Iraq.
Clear enough?
109 - shArk
Standard Scenario:
NEWS: "bad guy(s) _____ killed in Iraq!" (Uday, Koosay, Zacowie, et al)
RIGHT: "We've turned a corner! God Bless Bush and God Bless America! Mission Accomplished! Happy Days are Hear Again!"
LEFT: "You're nuts. Iraq is a fucking disaster. It will haunt this nation for years, if not decades."
RIGHT: "Liberals HATE America! Liberals hate the troops!"
...wash, rinse, and repeat ad infinitum...
===========
PS: Strategic Note to "Ron"
Dude, don't try to intellectually spar with Gonzo; he'll hand your "doctoral" ass to you on a platter.
Yer welcome!
xxoo
S
110 - Aaman
Good to see you're still haunting the halls of this 'institution', Sharkie
111 - gonzo marx
awww...luv ya too Sharkie-poo!
toss me an e-mail...underscore between names at the hotmail place...
now, fucking write more ya finny Fiend!
/smootchies
missed ya bro
Excelsior?
112 - Jet in Columbus
I'm beginning to think I'm having a bad influence on the guys on this site...
113 - gonzo marx
nah Jet..we wuz like this loooOOOoooOOOooong before ya ever got here...
on the upside..ya fit right in
heh
now, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
good question
Excelsior?
114 - MCH
"I never call people names."
- Dave Nalle, ad nasuseam
"Tommy, were you born this ignorant or do you have to work at it?"
- Dave Nalle, comment #79
115 - JustOneMan
gonzo marx
"spent time serving my country" hmmmmm...the 3 months that you were in the cub scouts and your watching the movie "Indepedence Day" 10 times doesnt really count as serving your country....
Note to posters - Dont always believe what people claim to be!
Just my opion of course....
116 - Victor Plenty
Okay, we won't believe your claim to be Just One Man. Maybe you're really 37 women and a brace of llamas, posting here in the guise of Just One Man.
117 - gonzo marx
yo.."senator" Just one Dink...
try harder, Navy 79-83...i think Andy Marsh can confirm my bona fides on this one
and i got kicked out of cub scouts fer eating brownies....heh
now, you have something specific to say, especially since i've just reversed yer "outing"?
or are you just trying to stir shit up?
if so, you had better try a bigger spoon and stop staring at yer Prince poster
nuff said?
Excelsior?
118 - RogerMDillon
"Note to posters - Dont always believe what people claim to be!"
He does have a point. He claims to be a man, but comes off like a child with his comments.
119 - JustOneMan
Hey RogermDildo...great post it really is your best....oh...I forgit you believe in EGore, the tooth fairy and that someday someone will take you seriously...
pathetic.....
120 - Jet in Columbus
JOM Me thinks you doth protest to much about Mr. Gore. Since he's all you seem to think about why don't you just admit you're in love and be done with it.
It's getting old. The house at pooh corner has a vacancy...
121 - RogerMDillon
Thanks for proving the point. You should really come up with a better retort and stop making Mr Rose work so much. He's got better things to do than clean up your verbal bile.
Believe in Gore? Well, I know he didn't say he invented the Internet, but I didn't vote for him as President so I'm not clear what you are talking about. Hell, Gore can't even craft a good melody.
PS, I don't come to the Internet for validation, but after the real world has spurned you so many times, I can understand why you do.
122 - Arch Conservative
Gonzo..... what was it that made you want to join the Navy? The Village People song? That came out about the time you joined didn't it?
123 - gonzo marx
ya really wanna know Bing?...ok
i'm the oldest of 5 kids, raised by a single mom...i started working full-time to help pay the bills when i was 13, while maintaining my grades in school...when the time came i couldn't afford college in any way, shape or form...and figured the service was a good idea that would allow me to do some travel, learn some skills and still contribute to help pay off the mortgage
there's also the bit where i grew up reading Heinlein, and in that idealistic way of young men, wanted to give something back to my country...the Navy was the best answer to me at the time
and i never regretted a second of it
now, my turn...Bing/Arch...what turned such a young man as yourself into such a sour, narrow minded person who not only doesn't understand those who disagrees with him, but actively mischaraterizes them and spews the fallacious non-sense that by not agreeing with him they are anti-american rather than just possessing a different point of view?
was it Limbaugh? yer about the right age to have grown up on that shit...
just Curious
Excelsior?
124 - Arch Conservative
so it wasn't the song?
do you even like the song?
125 - Ray Ellis
#1--Bush didn't kill Zarqawi--an anonymous pilot in an F16 with two 500 pound bombs did.
#2 Gonzo served his country. What have you guys contributed in any shape or form?
#3 It's generally acknowledged that those who resort to "fag jokes" are hiding a dirty little secret.