The original nationalist guise of the insurgency has been lost in favor of sectarian motivations and in-fighting.
Jordanian terrorist leader Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi was killed by U.S. Special Forces in an air attack on a house in Baghdad Wednesday night. He was considered the leader of the Sunni insurgency in Iraq, and allied with Al-Qaeda linked organizations. The Iraqi PM Nouri Maliki confirmed the news in a news conference along with U.S. military commander General Casey.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Ron
Tommyd, I don't think all Muslims are bad either here in America, the Middle East or anywhere in the world. However, I do think there are Muslims (small percent) that are evil and all they want is for death and destruction around the world. What I can't understand is whay liberals don't seem to understand that. The left wing blogs seem to think if we don't leave the USA we will nver be attacked.
27 - Aaman
Again bad math: 1 billion - 100,000 = nine hundred ninety-nine million nine hundred thousand
28 - tommyd
I was never good at math, but I'm great at sniffing out bull-doody.
A human being has two 500lbs BOMBS dropped on his house and miraculously his fingerprints and face are intact.
As much as Zarqawi deserved to die, it's amazing the credit he's being given. Like, he solely was responsible for all the insurgent attacks. He was just another nutcase inflamed to jihad because of the aggression and hypocrisy of US policy in the Middle East. According to the logic of the Reich supporters, therefore, the only way to end terr'rism is to kill everyone over there, because when the US kills civilians, other civilians will take up arms against us. It's that simple.
29 - tommyd
"The left wing blogs seem to think if we don't leave the USA we will nver be attacked."
Ron, I can't speak for all liberals, but I definitely don't think that liberals believe what you desribe above. However, we can be certain that US policy in the Middle East as a whole ensures that we will be hated and evetually attacked again, especially if the US remains the occupier in Iraq.
Americans may think that the double standards and hypocrisy that the US exhibits in the Middle East doesn't matter, but it matters to Muslims in the area. Liberals believe that the issues of Israel-Palestine and American double standards (like supporting dictators in Pakistan, Saudia Arabia and Egypt, while demanding regime change in Iraq, Iran and Syria)MUST BE ADDRESSED diplomatically. Liberals see that resolving issues of terrorism via war is futile and destructive to all sides. The US has to be bold enough to take the first step in rapprochment with the region.
30 - Ron
Tommyd, you must be stuck on slow. The way to end terrorism is to spread democracy. Hint! Democratic societies don't run planes in building and kills thousands of lives. The reason he is getting attention is because OBL called him the Prince of A.Q.
31 - gonzo marx
Ron sez...
*The way to end terrorism is to spread democracy*
ummm..incorrect...
i cite as examples the IRA and Timothy McVeigh to disprove your axiom...try again
Excelsior?
32 - Ron
Gonzo, what is your solution for terrorism? This would also need to apply to the rest of the world since no country is safe from terrorist acts. This would also include your pacifists friends in France and Canada.
33 - Ron
Gonzo, just a reminder. The IRA and Timothy are not state sponsored terrorists.
34 - tommyd
Um Ron, in case you haven't figured it out yet Al-Qaeda is not, nor ever was, state sponsored by Iraq. Spreading "democracy" at the point of a gun is doomed to fail. What you'll get in that case is a full blown totalitarian police state, something similiar to Iraq under Saddam.
35 - Ron
Tommyd, Does the country Lybia sound familiar. Does the fact that Egypt voted a female in office ring a bell. In case you forgot, there were millions of people who went to vote for democracy in Iraq. Since other countries in the Middle East want democracy, it will spread like cancer. Maybe if Liberals would have more confidence in the Muslim world instead of faking support for them, it will work.
36 - gonzo marx
well Ron, the Canadiens seem to be doing ok according to this weeks headlines...at least so far
as for any kind of unioversal "solution" to terrorism....
sorry to break it to you...there is NONE
each case must be dealt with on it's ow merits...what solves the problems with the IRA will not work with Basque seperatists or Mujahadeen
no simple answers in the real world, 10 second soundbytes cannot solve complex problems
and, for the record...since you obviously know shit about me...i'm NO pacifist
Excelsior?
37 - Ron
Gonzo, It is nice to see you have a pro-active solution for fighting terrorism. Sitting around doing nothing and waiting has done wonders for us. 1993-9/11/01.
Keep telling yourself your not a pacifist and 1 day it may come true.
38 - gonzo marx
Ron, you obviously have no fucking clue, as i have stated previously..
now, read what i typed again...i clearly stated that EACH sect of terrorist activity has to be dealt with as a seperate issue...that there is no single or simple answer...no matter what the neocon Rovians have programmed you to believe
as for my own "pacifism"...might i invite you to come up to Maine sometime so this veteran ex-martial arts instructor can demonstrate the difference between Wisdom and the proper use of Force and pacifism?
here's a dollar, buy a fucking clue...otherwise STFU and sit down
k?
tnx...
my Apologies to Aaman for dirtying up his excellent article...i'll come back with something more on point in a little while
Excelsior?
39 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Answering Aaman at comment #11:
Google Israel News was silent. While the Zarqawi story had front and center on the US version of Google News, there was no story on the death of the poor fellow on Google Israel. The site is a joke!
Walla, another Hebrew site, had a story "Who Was Al Zarqawi?" and a story detailing the death of 26 in a bomb blast after the elimination of Al Zarqawi.
Haaretz On-Line Hebrew edition had a story "The Elimination of Al Zarqawi: an expression of cooperation between the United States and Jordan", and covered it in detail. Apparently tis was a celebratory article. There was an additional story on the deaths of 26 people in a bombing in Baghdad.
One fellow wrote a comment in English (I fixed up his spelling):
"Jordan is afraid from Democracy like Shirkan from fire. There is a silent agreement (or a written one, who knows?) that if Jordan helps US , the last one [the US] will leave Jordan alone with their "liberal ideas" about democracy. Melman is right , if someone else can do the dirty work for you , violating any code of human rights, why not? This attitude of [the] US is seen every where. In genral US demands human rights but out of their territory they act like any other barbaric nation."
Sound familiar?
The English on-line Haaretz carried this piece from the AP:
Last update - 11:38 08/06/2006
Al-Zarqawi masterminded some of the bloodiest suicide attacks in Iraq
By The Associated Press
They were talking about this a lot on the Army Radio while I was riding the bus (buses in Israel have radios that broadcast the news) but I wasn't able to catch any of it...
Hope this helps a bit, Aaman...
40 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Now that I attempted to report the news, I'll blather my opinions.
The bin Laden family has always been a friend to the Bushes. I would not be surprised if Al Zarqawi was a emerging as a rival to Osama bin Laden and Bush wanted to do the relative of his friends a favor.
41 - ss
"Sitting around doing nothing and waiting has done wonders for us. 1993-9/11/01."
As opposed to '79 thru '88, when we gave money and weapons to the ISI,and the the ISI and CIA helped turn the international violent jihad dreamed of by some Egyptian and Saudi fanatics into a reality, all so we could use them to fight Soviets in Afghanistan and they (the ISI)could use them to stir up trouble in Kashmir.
Doing 'something' isn't enough, Ron. Generally you have to consider the consequences.
Though in the case of a Zarqawi, I'd say good riddance.
42 - JR
Um Ron, in case you haven't figured it out yet Al-Qaeda is not, nor ever was, state sponsored by Iraq. Spreading "democracy" at the point of a gun is doomed to fail. What you'll get in that case is a full blown totalitarian police state, something similiar to Iraq under Saddam.
Which, unlike the U.S., Great Britain, Spain, India or the current Iraq, didn't have terrorism. Hmmm... Maybe Ron is on to something: spreading totalitarian police statism under the guise of "democracy" in order to prevent terrorism.
43 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Oh Aaman, go to Debkafile for some kind of intelligence assessment of this. They are not much on their predictions, but are usually good on their assessments.
44 - Ron
Gonzo and Jr. It is amazing the hatred you guys have for your own country. Just remember it is this country that allows you to be traitors. Gonzo, each terroist act must be dealt with indidually, well I prefer to deal with the terroist before the terroist act happens. Also if you took your dollar and bought a crystal ball, you might be able to see what a democratic Middle East might do for the rest of the world. Gonzo, why don't take you ex veteran martial-arts rear end and flex that I'm so tough attitude towards people trying to kill us. Jr, I find it amazing that you seem to fear
45 - gonzo marx
Ron...i spent my time serving my country...how about you?
that alone shows the depth of my caring about my Nation, i proved i was willing to die to defend it, so spare me the bullshit about how much i "hate" my country...far from it
now, since you appear to be a believer in crystal balls, it just shows how delusional your opinions actually are...
and far from "flexing"..i was merely demonstrating my willingness to demonstrate the differences between pacifism and self defense...since you seem to have no idea about either definition...
now, let's talk about you for a moment...
1)have you served in the military?
2) do you have a poli/sci degree and some state department experience in international affairs?
3) what is YOUR plan to solve "terrorism" once and for all?
4)do you see any difference between islamic terrorism, what the IRA did in the past, the Basque seperatists and our Founding Fathers against Britain?...if so, describe the differences
that should get you started....but ii'm betting you just turn on some more Limbaugh and tune out what passes for grey matter in that skull of yours
looking forward to talking with you more.....
Excelsior?
46 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Hey Ron,
How much do you know about the Middle East and the Arab world in particular? Do you have any clue how these societies work? Perhaps you would like to elucidate for this Middle Easterner how any country is supposed to impose its values on another culture and make it work without getting a violent kick in the teeth.
I have some ideas, but i'd rather jear ideas from a patriotic American like yourself...
Just so you know, there is one fellow on this list who is presently serving in Iraq. Hopefully he is reading some of this and can intelligently comment on your proposals.
47 - Michael J. West
The way to end terrorism is to spread democracy.
The way to end terrorism is non-existent.
48 - Ron
I am 34 year old Doctor, so my degree was in medicine. No I have not served in the military but my saving lives is in a hospital and not on the field. I commend your service. However your attitude of America as the evil empire is disgraceful. I don't know what will ever be the answer for the Middle East and terroisim, but blaming America for all it woes is not the answer. The hatred they have for us is not a coventional hatred and can not be dealt with in a normal manner, but once again, we have to do something and start somewhere. Yes there is a difference between the founding fathers/Britian and Islamic terrorism. 1 major fact is the Islamic terrorists don't care about dying, a part of their hatred is based on a warped view of God. As for Ruvy, I guess America can follow Jerusalem/Palestine answer to resolving problems since that has gone so well. What is it that you guys are afraid of if this actually works? I also can't seem to understand that if the Iraqi's still wanted Saddam, they would have put him on the ballot and voted for him each time they did.
49 - gonzo marx
ok Ron..now you have entered the world of "i just think this guy is bullshitting"....but i'll humor you and continue...
please show me where i've blamed America for anything?...good luck, more than once you have tried to ascribe "america hating" towards me, hence my ire...stick to shit you know about...you will go further that way, and might someday be taken seriously when you type
when you say things like *1 major fact is the Islamic terrorists don't care about dying,*...you show your ignorance...
when you say shit like *a part of their hatred is based on a warped view of God.*...you show your arrogance and bigotry
i notice you didn't supply any answers to solving terrorism either...
so you are still batting .000
good luck, next time try harder
Excelsior?
50 - tommyd
Arch Conservative, I don't recall attacking you personally. As I recall, that's a specialty of your fascist idiotic brothers at FreeRepublic who see a "liberal" under every bed and need Father Bush to protect them. Ooooo, Preznit Bush, save us, save us, the "evil liberals" at DailyKos want to turn America into a peaceful country, oooo, ooooo, we want war, war, war forever and ever!!!! (but of course, the actual war fighting is always the other guy's problem never those "arch conservatives").
Take a hike and get a clue.
51 - Arch Conservative
The way to end terrorism is to spread democracy.
The way to end terrorism is non-existent.
The way to end terrorism is to kill all the terrorists.
52 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Ron,
You will not hear me wasting my breath or Blog Critics' bandwidth on "Israel/Palestine" baloney. If you want to get an idea of who is an evil empire and why, read my piece at Blog Critics called Dependence Day and focus on comments 10 and 11.
53 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Ending Arab Terrorism 101:
Class is now in session. Arab men are scared shitless of having their balls cut off. So, when someopn from a village goes and commits a terrorist act, you send an undercover force to the village, kidnap the head honcho and castrate him. When he is all healed, you send him back to the village with a two fold message. Any terrorism from that village/clan will result in every single male being castrated, and all the women sent to a different clan. End of problem.
Class dismissed.
54 - Arch Conservative
I don't think that fear is unique to Arab men Ruvy.
You think he's going to tell everyone he got his little zarqawi's cut off voluntarily ruvy?
You'd prob have to drop him off naked for all the village to see. Get the message across better that way don't you think?
55 - Victor Plenty
Care to flesh out your plan in a full length article here, Ruvy? I imagine it could stimulate some fascinating comments.
56 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Bing, you're right. The Russians did something very similar to this in a village in Lebanon and dropped the head honcho naked as a jaybird. And there was never a problem from that village again.
57 - Ray Ellis
Sheeesh! First, let me go on the record as stating unequivocally I'm a liberal--if by that you yahoos with big mouths and nothing of value to say consider that a person who doesn't do shoutdowns of meaningless rhetoric a "liberal."
Ron, I've looked all through my offical liberal handbook (even used the super-secret decoder ring) and I can't find for the life of me the part where we "hate democracy and love terrorists." Please tell me what page it's on--or maybe you have a newer edition than me.
And Arch-- why hasn't the NSA already hired you to clean up all the evils lurking under every American bush?
Do either one of you guys have any knowledge of American history whatsoever?--or did you get all your political savvy from Space Ghost?
It must be heartening to Ruvy that you know more about the Middle East than he does--after all, he just lives there.
You can spout rhetoric and hatred all you want, but until you've been in a life or death situation, until you've actually put your life on the line for something, anything-- you, my friends are just blowing very weak smoke.
58 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
There is nothing to flesh out Victor, if you'll pardon the pun. Arab women are subject to being raped if they are in a clan not their own. It keeps folks in their own clans, I guess. I don't think I have to explain too much about the castration part, do I?
59 - gonzo marx
for Ruvy...
so much for the moral high ground, the Geneva Conventions or adherance to civilization...
by your "rules" it seems the only answer is to become worse monsters than those you would fight
try reading Sun Tzu's Art of War for much better answers
Excelsior?
60 - Dave Nalle
Gonzo, there are some who would argue that there's no point in going to war unless the situation is serious enough that you can commit to 'total war' with no holds barred. Under that argument we never would have gone into Iraq, but if we had made the commitment the war would already be over and the country would be nothing but smoking rubble and burnt corpses.
Dave
61 - MCH
"Gonzo, there are some who would argue that there's no point in going to war unless the situation is serious enough that you can commit to 'total war' with no holds barred."
- Dave Nalle
...typed bravely on his keybord from inside the safety of his fortified compound, 10,000 miles from Iraq...
62 - gonzo marx
for comment #62...incorrect
you are partially correct in that we should not have gone to war in Iraq until at least Afghanistan was finished...if ever
but it is too late for that
as to the proper strategy for invading and occupying Iraq according to the Geneva conventions...see the fucking Powell doctrine, which was ignored an dismissed in favor of Rumsfeld's "strategy"...which worked for the invasion, but as the 2 solid weeks of looting showed, failed miserably the moment Baghdad fell, and has NOT functioned since
i can go on, but it is pointless to try and discuss things rationally with a partisan apologist
Excelsior?
63 - Ron
Gonzo, as I said before I don't have a clear and definitive answer to all terrorism. However, 1 thing no one has ever tried is put a democratic state and let the people decide who they want to rule them. In regards to them not being afraid to die, I don't know of any other group that will take a plane and go through buildings or walk into a crowded square and blow themselves up. This includes woman and young adults. How that is ignorant, you will have to explain. When I say that they have a warp view of God, that is because some of the terrorists feel their acts are told to them by God. Once again how that is ignorant, you will have to explain. In regards to condescending attitude to humor me.... And as for America does not seem to do any good gives a sense of your dislike for this country.
64 - Ron
Hey Ray Ellis, I must have missed you on the ballots for office to bring peace to this chaotic world. I'm so glad the liberl mantra is strong and well and has done so much for this country. Also Ray, if liberals do get education you will see I never said I knew more about the middle east then Ruvy. However, until someone here is in office or has a plan except do nothing, I'd like to know what it is.
65 - ss
"What is it that you guys are afraid of if this actually works?"
Ron, for myself, I'd have to explain how I got to be so skeptical that it actually WILL work.
Back in '91, during the first Gulf War, I figured Bush was beating down a dictator we'd done some business with, sending a signal to the other dictators we'd done business with during the Cold War that those days were over. I'm pretty liberal, so I didn't like the 'Countdown to the WAR' graphics the tv media used, or the carnival attitude the public had about that war in general, but I had to admit, at least Bush (Sr.) was cleaning up an old mess we'd contributed to in the '80's.
But as it turns out, putting Saddam in his place, and stationing troops in S.A., pissed off another old mess from the '80's, namely Osama bin Laden. And then putting Saddam in his place turned out to involve years of sanctions and bombing, with bin Laden gaining supporters and training killers while we focused our Middle Eastern policy on Saddam.
I'm just wondering what the new mess will turn out to be, and whether it will turn out we supported this new mess in it's infancy, as we have with so many others in the Middle East's long list of recent messes.
Also, I'm a liitle concerned this new mess will be armed to the teeth with Saddam's munitions we weren't able to track down.
66 - Ron
SS, you are the only one who I have respect for, for at least giving reasons why you are apprehensive about the middle east. However, your friends all just seem to say we can' do anything right, nothing will work, we are to blame. All I ask is that we give this democracy thing a shot.
67 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Gonzo at comment #60,
I don't think like a Christian gentleman. I'll not argue that. But neither does the enemy. Nevertheless, my solution does not require bombing weddings or massacring villages or crying widows or young orphans or orphanages to keep them. The threat of these actions is what would keep these people in line and PREVENT terror. Note how many people die from this concept, and compare to Haditha, for example. Is Haditha your measure of a moral high ground? Somehow, I don't think so.
Remember, I type from the safety of being in the gunsights of thousands of missiles and an enemy that would be happy to massacre us.
Let's get back to terrorism and Sun Tzu for just a second. The terrorism and the deaths you prevent are your biggest victory, Gonzo. And that is what I seek to do.
68 - gonzo marx
Ron sez...
*However, 1 thing no one has ever tried is put a democratic state and let the people decide who they want to rule them.*
wrong again...see Hamas and the Palestinians...democratically elected, weren't they? so much for your naive armchair theory
you prove again, you are just not worth the time, go back to watching Faux news like a good little drone
Ruvy...
....let me share a line with you.."monsters we are, lest monsters we become"
now, you know i don't condone things like the allegations of Haditha...so that point is moot
my main point is that working to remove the root cause of terror is much better than random acts of violence intended to discourage it(which it won't)
hasn't Israel used the "10 for 1" policy since the days of Moshe Dayan? has it worked yet?
as long as your nation and it's neighbors fight over scripture, there is no answer i can see
i can only hope you and your arab brethren can find some sane answer, which does have to start with them accepting Israel as a state, and then for Israel to end their version of apartheid...but that is merely my outsiders opinion and in no way meant to be definitive
i just hold that it is NEVER "good" politically, militarily or ethically to stoop to the level of your foes....i'm silly like that
Excelsior?
69 - Victor Plenty
Putting your whole line of reasoning into one coherent essay is the reason I suggested you might want to give this proposal its own article, Ruvy.
70 - Arch Conservative
We need to send hulk hogan over there to straighten out the terrorists!
I am real american.....fight for the rights of every man...........
sing along... you know the words.........
71 - Baronius
This is great news. Credit to the Iraqi, American, and other troops who've made the world a safer place.
72 - Ray Ellis
psst..ron--the guy in office is not a liberal
Great thinking, Arch... Hulk Hogan will clean all this mess up.
Don't you guys ever back away from the crack pipe?
73 - tommyd
Ron sez...
*However, 1 thing no one has ever tried is put a democratic state and let the people decide who they want to rule them.*
gonzo marx replies in #68: "wrong again...see Hamas and the Palestinians...democratically elected, weren't they? so much for your naive armchair theory"
Gonzo, let's remind the armchair neocons about Iraq as well. Democratically elected Al-Jaafari was pressured out by the Americans in favor of this new guy Malicki. Yea, that's democrazy, American style, saving the world. Just make sure your country elects the "right" guy, or else....!!
74 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
The policy I recommended is not something Israel has ever done, Gonzo. Some of Israel's policies have worked - one being the massacre of a village in 1950 or 1951 at the behest of Ariel Sharon. But it worked only for a time. The kinds of solutions I recommend don't need new blood, like the sacrifice to a god of war...
The casatrated mukhtar, so long as he lives, is reminder to the rest of the clan never to engage in terror. Word gets around and the other clans learn by example. One castration a generation is a lot less blood spilled than all the terrorist bombings and counter bombings that take place now. Count the bodies, Gonzo, and count the tears. Count the funerals. There have been too many.
Victor, I finally see your point. Thank you for the advice.
75 - Matthew T. Sussman
I'm glad we all have different ideas on how to stop terrorism, but perhaps we should work together and devise a solution rather than turn on each other and play the "Who hates America more?" game.
If ya don't see eye to eye, and you don't think an idea works, it's not because they want terrorism to thrive. Even those who disagree with Bush -- even those who flat out hate him -- would probably concede that they don't think Bush hates America and his actions were out of him wanting terrorists all over the place. They just think it was a big ol' fuck up.
So how about we look at each other's ideas and not say "well that's a stupid idea and you're stupid for bringing it up."
Then again, it's way more fun to just take shots at each other.
You're all gay.