A movement to save Abdul Rahman must be indigenous and rooted in Muslim values. Otherwise, I'm afraid Abdul Rahman will either die for his beliefs or Afghanistan's legitimacy will be undercut. Afghanistan's government will be set back if he is saved from execution inorganically, meaning as the result of illegitimate external interventions.
With reference to my own understanding as provided during discussion of a related article, there is not a single authentically recorded instance that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did treat apostasy as a prescribed offence under hudud (capital punishment) only for leaving Islam. No one was sentenced to death solely for renunciation of faith unless accompanied by hostility and treason, or was linked to an act of political betrayal of the community. As a matter of fact the Qur’an is completely silent on the question of death as a punishment for apostasy, which does not qualify for temporal punishment. The following is provided based on Ahmad Ibn Naqib Al-Misri’s ‘The Reliance of the Traveller’ (from IslamOnline) with some amendments):
In addressing the issue of apostasy it is important to keep in mind the time, circumstances and the conditions that existed at the time of a particular ruling or judgment. Most modern governments do not apply Shari`ah law. However, this does not justify individuals taking it upon themselves to kill people if they apostatize from Islam. If this were to happen, such reckless action would only lead to a vicious circle of murder and homicide in which case a great deal of innocent people would be injured. As it stands presently, the means for dealing with apostasy are appropriate. Muslims should know that Almighty Allah has promised the apostate a severe punishment in this life, and an even greater punishment in the next life.
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Article comments
1 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Jamal,
For all of your prevaricating, it appears that you are attempting to powder the pig's nose and call it a rabbit.
Naturally, you would know better than I if Islam actually provides the death penalty for one who converts away from the faith. In Judaism, it used to be that we treated the one who converted as though he were dead, lighing memorial candles and sitting in mourning, etc. We do not look kindly on people who walk out on G-d either.
But the fact still stands that Afghani law provides the death penalty for one who converts from Islam, Afghani law does not provide for treating Abdul Rahman as though he were dead. It provides for his death. This is a distinct difference. Many Christians are getting all upset over this. The man converted to Christianity. Christians are actually showing a little spine in protecting their own. What a nice change of pace.
What I or others may think of Islam is rather irrelevant here. All of your complaints, all of the columnists you quote, do not change the fact that Abdul Rahman is on trial for his life. So the question I have for you is very simple. In your eyes, is executing Addul Rahman for converting to Christianity just? If so, why? If not, why not?
The answer should be simple. A "yes" with reasons - or a "no" with reasons. Which is it?
2 - Al Barger
Yeah, I'ma have to call BULLSHIT here: "Rather than fearing Islam and slandering the Shari'ah, people should instead follow Irfan's example and attempt to understand the political, cultural, theological and historical context within which the Rahman case unfolds"
ABSOLUTELY GODDAMN UNACCEPTABLE If you make it a point of law to kill someone for not believing in your stupid piece of shit idea of a religion, then you're whack. I understand that perfectly well, and there's "context" that's going to make that okay or mitigate.
We did not invest the time and lives into cleaning out the Taliban so they can just run things under another name. The fact that there are bad things going on in other countries you cite does not even BEGIN to justify.
But we're not the ones protecting and enabling those other governments. If Afghanistan wants to impose death penalties on infidels, then they should expect to do it without a BIT of US help. I say they back up off some of this, or we leave right now. Just know that if their nonsense gets back to US again, we'll destroy their miserable plot of real estate till there's not enough of these fools left to be a danger to anyone.
And this IS a knock on Islam. This might not reflect historical Islam, nor does it necessarily reflect the thinking of all current Muslims- but it certainly DOES reflect the thinking of a great many. There's not much reasonable doubt about that after the last few years.
You can argue that this, and the cartoon riots, etc, are not true Islam or what the prophet meant. Fine. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and a good many Muslims such as these ones in Afghanistan willing to absolutely murder someone for not believing their stupid belief systems are little better than rabid dogs. They're certainly not civilized human beings.
3 - RedTard
Al, you must not have received your compulsory cultural relativism propaganda in college.
4 - Ken Bagwell
Seemingly lost in the Abdul Rahman issue is the hypocracy of these Islamic peoples. They riot and destroy businesses over some cartoons yet heartly approve jailing and even killing Christians and Jews - and they have been doing this for years ! This is the Islam that the Isralies know so well. No tolerance whatsoever, just blind radical hatred. And there is not a single strong voice against this from the Muslim community. Not a one who will condemm this madness. If Islam is a religion of peace, then someone from the Muslim community needs to condem this behavior. If we do not stand against these people now, how will you resist them after they have nuclear weapons ?
5 - Ric
I think this is a very complex issue. It started out as a custody case between a father, and the mother's relatives. Fearful that they would loose the child, they choose to invoke these violations to help their case to retain custody of the child. So in this light, is the father wanting to care for his child offensive?
The man converted to Christianity for his own reasons. He worked with Christians doing humanitarian efforts. This seems to be actions with good faith and good heart in mind, independent of whether it was derrived from Christian or Muslim faith. Are these good deeds not respectful in the eyes of Islam?
I do not agree with the statement, but President Bush made a statement at one time basically indicating, "if your not with us, your against us". This type of idealogy seems to be in the mind of many extremists in the related region of this issue (I hold this to extreme Christians, extreme Muslims, etc).
These offenses seem to have a "knee-jerk" reaction, based on some PR or extermists "talking points", causing the uninformed follows to blindly follow some extreme actions.
My understanding of the Muslim faith is that they look unfavorably with those that do not follow the word of Allah, but do accept Jewish and Christian beliefs as religious law as well. I believe the majority of the disfavor is suppose to be directed at those that do not believe in a faith or have prejudices against theses faiths.
Does the "though shalt not kill" philosphy not exists in the Muslim faith or does it have a philosphy of "though shalt not kill believers but kill anyone else that doesn't agree with believers"?
The extremists always seem to see it as black or white with no room for the grey area that make up a lot of problems in our world today.
6 - Lim Ah Chong
What happens if a Christian converts to Islam, say, in the US or in Afganistan? God is great?
In Malaysia which is considered to be a moderate Islamic country,a 54 year old Malay lady is being charged in the Sharia court for insulting Islam and if convicted she will be imprisoned. She is an Al Azhar university graduate and a Islamic religious teacher. She is a follower of a Muslim with very liberal views. The official Muslim ulama arrested his followers including the lady (he escaped) and charged them for deviating from official Islam. While being charged in court, the lady said she renounced Islam and she was charged for another offence, insulting Islam. The case is continuing.
In Malaysia, it is an offence to leave Islam for, say, Christianity or any other reason. But in Malaysia, one can get financial assistance to attend Islamic classes to further one's knowledge of Islam if one converts from Christianity to Islam.
In Malaysia, it is an offence to possess a Bible in the Malay (national) language. But one can buy a heavily subsidized copy of the Koran in the Malay or English language. Or, if one persists a bit, it is not difficult to get a free copy.
These are not isolated cases, Abdul Rahman or the 54 year old Malay lady.
7 - Ric
In the US, nothing would happen if someone changed. That's the beauty of freedom of religion.
I think what we are seeing at the moment, is something that happen throughout Christianity. Over the years, the power structure of the church resulted in unquestionable loyalties to the church and anyone believing differently was viewed as a heratic or was forced to convert (anyone remember the Inquisition or Crusades). The same type of forcing of religion on an individual, like that that occurred with the Crusades is the same type of thing occurring in this case.
Over the years, however, with a formal power organzation being established (Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, Priest, etc) and the realization that these methods were not doing anything but causing fear and hatred of the very church that was trying to promote, resulted in changes.
Initially, this changes occur in the form of alternatve versions of the church (Anglicans, Baptists, etc). In later years, this resulted in a different interpretation of church doctrine, hoping to unify, not divide.
There is doctrine, which is subject to interpretation, and there is dogma, which is suppose to be absolute (coming from God).
It seems to me, that Islam has its subdivisions (Shia, Sunni, etc).
To a degree, it has its organized structure (Imans, etc), although there are still conflicting acceptance of their allegiance.
It also seems to have unquestionable loyalty to their faith. This is an admirable matter of faith, but it also has the cost of missing all the good that they may be blinded to, just because someone is not labeled a specific religion, race, nationality, etc.
8 - nehad ismail
It is shameful that a man cannot choose his faith.
Abdul Rahman is being hounded by the mobs in Afghanistan. Why is it when a Christian or a Jew convert to Islam, no one complains. If the convert is a famous person, Muslims gloat.
It is a disgrace that Mulims in Afghanistan allow such cruelty. American tax payers' money has been wasted on Afghanistan which is now run by the Taliban masquerding as liberal democrats.
nehad ismail
camberley
england
9 - alethinos59
I have read the Qu'ran and the Hadiths backward and forward and have five translations of the Qu'ran including one in the original Arabic. And yet I've never found one place where the Prophet Mohammad has ever said it was alright to KILL anyone for their choice of Faith.
Now, sure, later, MEN came along and put THEIR stamp on things and called it the Shari'ah.
So, you'll have to excuse me... All I can find in the Qu'ran is where Mohammad tells His followers to RESPECT the "People of the Book".
Hmmm... What a thought...
Alethinos
10 - Baronius
I think Nehad captured the reason for the West's exasperation. Jamal complains about the lack of support in Sudan - and I agree - but when there is violence in Baghdad, Somalia, and Afghanistan, US assistance seems futile. The case of Rahman is particularly bitter. This isn't about food or weapons. It's Afghanistan's new government acting against human rights in the same way as their old government.
---
Ric, you're misreading Christian history. The Crusades were focused on land, not souls. The Inquisition wasn't about forcing conversions. And the Anglicans etc. brought some of the worst religious oppression in history. The Reformation's body count, on both sides, easily surpassed that of the Inquisition. The Reformation was driven by doctrinal differences, not the mitigation of harshness.
11 - RJ Elliott
"Al, you must not have received your compulsory cultural relativism propaganda in college."
Heh.
I took a college course in Anthropology a while back. Very interesting subject, by the way.
But it was amusing to read how the author of the required textbook tried to make some backwards "civilization" that still engages in cannibalism appear morally-equivalent to modern, Western society...
12 - Dave Nalle
There's a good article on the killing of apostates at the IRFI, but although it says the comment from Mohammed is from a Hadith, it doesn't say which one as far as I can tell. Apparently the hadith is obscure and not accepted by everyone because it comes from only a single unconfirmed source.
However, there are a number of places in the Koran where it suggests that apostasy is among the worst possible crimes, even though it does not specify a punishment. For example, Surah An-Nisa' 4:137 which says that "those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe again, then disbelieve, and then increase in their disbelief - Allah will never forgive them nor guide them to the path."
Dave
13 - Bliffle
This case rips the mask of hypocrisy from the face of the so-called "moderate Muslims".
14 - Nancy
Exactly, Dave: it says, ALLAH will not forgive. In other words, it ain't for humanity to deal with; Himself will handle it on His own, it's between Himself & the waffler. I checked out my own handy-dandy annotated pocket Qu'ran & Hadith, and likewise found NO reference or authority anywhere for anyone apostasizing from Islam to be put to death for it. As always, it would seem that those most zealous for the honor of God/Allah/Whomever have little or no faith in His/Her/Its ability to defend or maintain His/Her/Its own honor or dictates, & figure their intervention is required. Which doesn't say much for their faith, now, does it?
15 - H
As a Pakistani Muslim, I am hoping that Abdul Rahman will be set free. There should be no coercion in religion etc.
The problem is that Afghanis have been war ravaged through out history and have had less chance to be educated. Most follow a very medieval Islam. The medieval Islamic jurists have had capital punishment for apostasy from an Islamic state just like people have had cruel punishments for treason and turning against the state.
However Islamic scholars are very clear on the fact that freedom of religion is important. The Quran also supports this:
And had your Lord so willed, all those who live on earth would have attained to faith - all of them, do you then think that you could compel people to believe?- The Holy Quran (10:99)
Let there be no compulsion in religion (2:256)
Said (Noah): O my people - what do you think? If ( it be true that) I am taking my stand on a clear evidence from my Lord . . . to which you have remained blind, can we force it on you even though it is hateful to you? (11:28)
And so (O Prophet) exhort them; your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel (88:21-22).
If then they run away, We have not sent thee as a guard over them. Thy duty is but to convey (42:28)
Whether We shall show thee (within thy life-time) part of what we promised them or take to ourselves thy soul (before it is all accomplished),- thy duty is to make (the Message) reach them: it is our part to call them to account. (13:40)
And to recite the Qur’an. And whoso goeth right, goeth right only for (the good of) his own soul; and as for him who goeth astray - (Unto him) say: Lo! I am only a warner.(27:92)
Say, “The truth is from your Lord”: Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it) (18:29)
16 - Nancy
Just as with Christianity, there is no value or virtue in a religion that requires force to keep its followers. Wonder how the fanatic believers of any religion can miss that point?
17 - Steve
Nancy, the Christian New Testament does not make any suggestion that force should/is to be required to keep it's followers.
18 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I'm still waiting for the esteemed author of this piece, Jamal, to answer my comment #1. He hasn't deigned it fitting to return to his own piece here. Guess he's off battling dragons at Desicritics...
19 - Faheem
The punsihment mentioned is for treason - the person in question who turned away during the prophets time was a pagan who converted when the muslims won the first battle, then converted back to paganism carrying along information about the armies movement - The wahhabi movement is responsible for this misinformation about death for people who turn away from religion. In fact the taliban (wahabbis) advocate this even though it directly opposes what is said in the quran "there is no compulsion in religion". Unfortunately they have all the power and wealth and the moderates get drowned out.
there are instances of corporal and capital punishment for many things but its left to the discretion of the state - For example - Now we have the options of jails so there is a more merciful option - you can use that instead of those punishments but still use em in last resort.
It may interest you to know that the saudis and the extremist scholars are actually removing texts out of the established books which disagree with their method.
Unfortunately, for the americans the arabs are a big friend (not a rant at usa, it makes perfect business sense)and are almost untouchable.