The immigration debate has exposed a sore issue on all sides. Much of the country is upset that the government is doing nothing about illegal immigration and is simply proposing to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants in lieu of enforcing the laws. The illegal immigrants believe this to be a racist attack designed to purge the country of Hispanics. Both sides have a point but there still needs to be a solution before the issue becomes too contentious.
The immigration enforcement position
Those who favor immigration enforcement argue that these people entered the country illegally and should not be rewarded for breaking the law. They state that the porous border makes it easy for the enemies of the United States to enter the country and undermine us from within. There is the argument that illegal immigrants inflate the welfare rolls, causing taxpayers to pay for people who sneak across the border. Lastly, the situation has led to open armed conflict on the border with Mexico.
The immigrants' position
Living in poverty with no hope of a better life for oneself or one's children isn't a fun thing. If you lived in Mexico and saw the prosperity in the US you'd want to come here too. With the Mexican government and the United States government making it so easy to come here it hardly seems like it is really illegal. Companies are ready and willing to not only hire you, but help you "doctor" the paperwork so it appears legit. If your child is born in the US they'll automatically have US citizenship.
It's win-win.
Analysis
This problem has been caused by the government of the United States not only spending decades not enforcing the law but broadcasting that we have no intention of enforcing the law. When Mexico started producing pamphlets on how to sneak across the border, our government did nothing. While it is tempting to blame the illegal immigrants, we can hardly blame them for wanting a better life, being told by their government they can come to the US for a good life, and the US saying it won't enforce the laws. Making it a felony to be an illegal immigrant starts to get dangerously close to an ex post facto kind of situation.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Nancy
This still isn't going to work, because aside from the slap on the wrist of "banning" someone from legal immigration if they're caught here illegally, there is no penalty & there is still no plan for active, meaningful enforcement. Now, if we started billing Mexico for services to illegals, cost of repatriations, etc. & freezing Mexican assets to recover the costs should Mexico refuse to pay, that might give Mexico an incentive to start fixing their own house economically & socially instead of just throwing all their trash into our yard.
2 - gonzo marx
well John..you miss the muc simpler "demand" side Soloution...
enforce the Laws that Reagan put on the books, and fine ALL the employers who hire illegal aliens
how about making the fine the same as the FCC one for Janet Jackson's bobbie....$500,000 an incident
if no on will hire them, they will stop coming
much cheaper, requires NO new Law...and penalizes those utilizing "slave labor"
that's the Answer ya get by shaving with Occam's Razor...
Excelsior!
3 - Guppusmaximus
I agree with Nancy because I love how in all these debates there is never any mention of how the Mexican Government should take part ownership of this problem.
I also agree with gonzo..We should fine the f*ck out of these cheap bastards that hire illegal immigrants. Make them pay for the drug testing and other resources that it takes to hire a qualified Man/Woman for the job!!
Like I have always said that it's a bunch of B.S. that Americans wouldn't do the jobs that these immigrants take. We would if these slave drivers would actually pay the Americans what they are worth!!
4 - Georgio
Even though I don't agree with all of your solutions I give you credit for being open minded as opposed to those who just want to deport them..Personally I would favor them becoming the 51st state,,
5 - gonzo marx
i like it!!
let's start Annexxing...Mexico, Peurto Rico...any in the western hemisphere that want it
a MUCH better solution in many ways
THEN enforce the shit out of the laws against hiring illegals
good times for all involved
Excelsior!
6 - Andy Marsh
where would we put the star?
7 - chantal stone
if Mexico becomes a state, our flag would look weird.
...not a good idea.
8 - John Bambenek
The reason I don't talk about the laws already on the books is because the government simply won't enforce them and have lost any trust that they ever will. That's why the qui tam provision is key. No longer do people have to wait for the government to do the enforcing, private citizens can litigate for civil penalties on behalf of the government. No jobs, no incentives.
As far as Mexico, fine them for what? Sure, I suppose we could take those 10 billion barrels of oil they just found but short of that it isn't like they have much. I just couldn't visualize how that would work.
As far as annexing Mexico, to be strictly honest I doubt we'd do it with them as just one state, take their provinces and make each a state. As long as they vote Republican I'm all for them having as many Senate seats as possible.
That last part was a joke.
9 - Georgio
I am thrilled to have Gonzo on my side ..wonder what Nancy thinks ummmmm...
How could the Mexicans ever become Republicans ..They are a poor ppl and most ppl know the Rs hate poor ppl..
10 - Richard Brodie
allow interested private parties to do the enforcing
Qui tam? We already have interested private parties trying to assist with enforcement. They're called The Minutemen. You can be sure the ACLU, multi-culturalists, and open border advocates will all be whining about Vigilante-ism (which, after all, just means "being vigilant"). I love it!
11 - gonzo marx
Richard, that depends on whether those "minutemen" stay on this side of the Law...
dangerous precedent
me..i think it's more the actual job of the National Guard...
oh wait...they are kinda busy right now...
again , it all fall s under "prior planning prevents piss poor performance"
which SHOULD be tattoo'd backwards on every President's forehead before he takes the Oath of office...
but i digress...
Excelsior!
12 - Andy Marsh
gonzo - you missed one...proper...as in prior proper planning prevents piss poor performance...'cause after all...you can prior plan...but if the plans ain't proper....
13 - Richard Brodie
gonzo: that depends on whether those "minutemen" stay on this side of the Law...
dangerous precedent
I haven't heard of any illegal activity. They are not there to assist with the apprehension part of enforcement, only observation and reporting - exactly the same as with John's qui tam proposal, where private citizens will only be reporting illegal activity, not serving warrants, making arrests, etc.
I surely hope that you do not have a double standard whereby you both:
a) regard it as a "dangerous precedent" to have private citizens looking for illegal activity on the part of non-citizen aliens; and
b) do not regard it as a "dangerous precedent" to have private citizens looking for illegal activity on the part of other fellow citizens!
14 - Arch Conservative
The Minutemen have this nation's best interests at heart not the All Communist Lawyers Union.
It is fast approaching the point where vigilatism may be the best solution.
If those who are entrusted to make and enforce the laws of this nation refuse to do so, then what else are we left with?
15 - gonzo marx
well Richard, i assure you i intend no such double standard...
my concern is that many of those Minutemen are armed, as are most of the "coyote" types running the illegals across the border
make more sense?
and Bing...i'm sure former Representative Bob Barr and other conservatives working for the ACLU will be interested to know you class them as "communists"
"free your Mind, and the rest will follow"
Excelsior!
16 - John Bambenek
Armed **legally**. That's why they are operating in states that allow that like Arizona.
But how's this for a compromise, for every immigrant we nationalize we deport a politician.
17 - Arch Conservative
Only if they are US Senators and we cap it at 100 John.
18 - yesenia
You know what mexican imigrants aren't the only ones that cross the borders!! You guys are all making it seem like if it was there fault!! For reals be real!! The americans WOULD NOT work in the fields!! And if u say u would then why dont u get ur butts over there? Also why dont u get in there position and imagine how you would feel if everyone descriminated you for being and immigrant!! They should just give out in and out permits for a certain period of time. Then all this would be over!!
19 - Priscilla
I agree with Yesenia.... Not all Mexicans are Immigrants. And if all of yous and bush and everyone that don't want Mexicans here well just remember that Mexicans are out their on the war too fighting for this country so if yous don't want them here well then bring all the Mexicans back over here and for them to go home and yous to go and fight for
"your Country" because with out us all yous ppl wouldn't have all the things that yous have now!!
20 - Bliffle
A friend sent me this:
Dear President Bush:
I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family,
and I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across
the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few
arrangements. I know you can help with this.
I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports,
immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the
same way you do here.
So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that
I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting
the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might
need, whether I use them or not.
3. All government forms need to be printed in English.
4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.
5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the
flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and
lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy
access to government services.
9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any
effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the
memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all
police officers speak English.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals
on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not
want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes,
and don't enforce any labor laws or! tax law s.
13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice
and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might
place on the economy.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these
things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am
sure that Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him
nicely.
However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail
hunting with your V.P.
Thank you so much for your kind help.
Sincerely,
21 - Arch Conservative
Well now I have seen it all...........
In the past several days I have seen views expressed by reliable lefties like Bliffle, Nancy, Natalie, and I think even Gonzo that have concurred with my own views regarding America's ILLEGAL ALIEN problem while at the same time seeing President Bush, whom I voted for, and many GOP congressmen putting forth a bullshit amnesty program and making more bullshit arguments about the value of ILLEGAL ALIENS to the American society.
I never thought I'd see the day when I couldn't tell the difference between Bill Frist and that morbidly obese, hypocritical, elitist, bastard, Ted "the hero of chappaqiddac" Kennedy. It makes my skin crawl.
The vast majority of poloticians on both sides of the aisle have laid down and prayed at the altar of ultra hardcore political correctness for fear of being labelled a racist or bigot. They have succumbed to the fear of civil unrest threatened by the protesting in the streets by thousands of ILLEGAL ALIENS.
The only solution is for people like myself and Bliffle who would normally not cooperate in any venture together to band togather as a single unified voice to stand up to the stooges from both parties in Congress and say we will no longer stand for this an if you don't do something about ti we will kick you out of office.
22 - Nancy
I already sent my Senators & congessmaggot emails to the effect that if they didn't do something - and by that I DON'T mean amnesty - they should not bother to return after this, their most recent & egregious "vacation" upcoming. I also reminded them they are supposed to be upholding existing law & looking out for the interests of US citizens - NOT a pack, no matter how numerous, demanding, or disruptive - of howling illegals.
And frankly, I'm not surprised by Bush's stance; he's always been an enemy of labor & a stooge of big business, which depend on slave labor & breaking down the rights & advances of working stiffs everywhere in favor of the plutocracy.
Sometimes issues CAN create some straaaaaange bedfellows, can't it?
23 - Bliffle
AC:
I think your perplexity is caused by your persistent attempts to demonize people by first labeling them as something you dislike, then denouncing them, thinking that all observers will follow your lead. Alas, most of the people hereabouts on BC are too independent to be labeled, and even if you could successfully label them, almost no one herein would follow YOUR lead.
Try to think a little more outside of easy labels, because labeling is not the point.
24 - Arch Conservative
Bliffle.......
Most people, including BC posters genrally fall on one side of the sociopolitical spectrum with regard to the majority of the issues of the day.
If I am labellling people on here it is because of the repeated views that they have put forth which would cause any reasonable person to say that a specific label is fitting.
25 - gonzo marx
soOOooOOOooo...fiscally conservative, hawking against illegal immigrants, wanting the Rule of Law to be enforced, advocating a tax code that enhances the middle class and hits rich dead folks , desiring our principle of both "provide for the common defense" as well as "promote the general welfare"....defending the 4th Amendment against warrantless eavesdropping and searches, desire for Due Process for ALL Citizens, firm advocacy of "checks and balances"....
all that....how do ya label lil ole me?
heh
Excelsior!