Real world politics is about hard choices, accepting reality and making compromises on the road to your goals.
The latest campaign from the Ron Paul movement seems to be going around to every forum and message base and blog comment area and posting a link to a letter which presents their version of a reasoned argument about why the Republican Party should reject John McCain and support Ron Paul instead. It's an interesting document, because it encapsulates in a nutshell a broad selection of the misinformation and delusion on which their campaign is based, and it also exposes some of the ways in which their John Birch Society inspired agenda deviates substantially from traditional libertarianism.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - Chuck
I wish I had said this but Jack Hunter does a good job of beating me to the punch on this one.
The dividing line on the Right these days IS foreign policy and war. How come someone like Sean Hannity will kiss a technocratic, socialized medicine-loving moderate like Mitt Romney’s ass, even calling him a “conservative?” Because Romney supports an interventionist foreign policy. Why did Hannity spend the early part of the primary heavily promoting Rudy Giuliani? - an anti-gun, partial birth abortion supporting social liberal, who is to the left of Hillary Clinton on gay marriage and a host of other issues? Because Rudy wants to stay in Iraq and wants to start bombing Iran.
Despite McCain/Feingold, his amnesty proposal, his signing on to stop “global warming,” and a host of other liberal misdeeds, most Republicans will vote for McCain over Obama for one reason and one reason only - foreign policy. They vote for McCain because he’s good on the “War on Terror.” It’s all he’s got - and McCain’s entire candidacy is that of the war candidate. Jack Hunter sums it up nicely!
77 - Carlo C
Dave Nalle you are corrupted journalist, and therefore ANTI-AMERICAN.
Shame on you!!
Carlo C.
Miami, FL
78 - James Orleans
This is little more than a weak hit piece. If the good docter were so irrelevant, I wonder why so much effort is expended calling him and his supporters names.
79 - Dave Nalle
Well, James. I take the time to write about Ron Paul and his supporters because I'm tired of fanatics. I've had enough of people who use ideology instead of reason, and the Paulistas are just another group for me to add on to my list along with the religious right and islamic radicals and earthfirsters and various forms of dogmatic socialists.
Some Ron Paul supporters do manage to think for themselves and want to move beyond the hate speech and divisiveness to actually improve and reform the GOP. I stand right with them. But as demonstrated in the responses to this and other articles, most of them - the ones I call Paulistas (Paulbots being played out) are the worst kind of irrational sheep repeating meaningless mantras from JBS leaflets and generally polluting the political environment.
So repeat your more palatable talking points here, and then send me your real thoughts in email about how the jews are secretly controlling the administration and McCain and the media and the banks. Your own hate and irrationality damns you in the eyes of rational, freedom-loving people everywhere.
Dave
80 - Clavos
Why is there even a debate here?
It doesn't matter who's pro-war and who's anti-war; who will follow the constitution and who is the better foreign policy wonk.
JOHN MCCAIN IS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE.
RON PAUL LOST.
HE IS NOT THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE.
NOT ENOUGH REPUBLICANS VOTED FOR HIM; HE'S FINISHED, DONE.
IT'S OVER.
81 - Dan in South Africa
Dave, once again your analysis is flawed. This time semantically.
You opine that by "any normal definition, the war ended within a matter of a few months." My dictionary defines of war as a "state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties."
Most sensible people would agree that the dictionary definition is accurate.
Therefore, to any sane and coherent observer, the Iraq War, which has cost the US more than 4000 military deaths and half a trillion dollars, has still not ended. And this enormous cost is mounting daily!
You disappoint me Dave, but then I'd guess that war is merely an abstract term to you. You've obviously never served in the armed services and never fired a shot in anger.
82 - Chuck
Let's just see how many Republican votes he gets in November, Clavos. If the leadership of the Republican party throws the evangelicals and the libertarian, constitutionalists under the bus and tries to replace it with independents and democrats, see where it will end up. I predict a huge loss for the Republicans.
83 - Mekt_Ranzz
"and the reprehensible 9/11 Truth movement"
Firstly, just to be clear, much of the 9/11 truth movement supports Ron Paul because he is open to limited government and government transparency. NOT because he believes 9/11 was an inside job (which he does not).
That said, Mr. Nalle, and considering that you think the 9/11 truth movement, of which I am a proud member, is "reprehensible", what I want to know is when are you going to write an article about us?
Come on, I know you want to. You probably even have your little Popular Mechanics book with a bunch of highlighted portions ready and raring to go . . .
Eloy Gonzalez II
9/11 truth activist
84 - Matthew
So, if I understand your reasoning correctly, you believe that a bloc of voters 1.1 million strong is a "fringe". Lol. You are pretty dumb.
85 - Dave Nalle
If the leadership of the Republican party throws the evangelicals and the libertarian, constitutionalists under the bus
Makes no sense. If they were to throw the evangelicals under the bus they'd win over a lot of the libertarians they'd otherwise lose.
Dave
86 - Dave Nalle
That said, Mr. Nalle, and considering that you think the 9/11 truth movement, of which I am a proud member, is "reprehensible", what I want to know is when are you going to write an article about us?
I already have. Several of them in fact.
So, if I understand your reasoning correctly, you believe that a bloc of voters 1.1 million strong is a "fringe".
Less than 1% of the electorate? What would you call it?
Dave
87 - logicprobe
This November we will have the usual false choice between Left Wing Socialism and Right Wing Socialism. Take your pick, flip a coin, whatever.
Ron Paul is certainly not perfect, but he's not a socialist, and that's why so many of us supported his candidacy.
88 - Clavos
"Let's just see how many Republican votes he gets in November, Clavos."
No argument from me, Chuck. I didn't say the Repubs would win the general, only that McCain is their nominee, so debate about who's the better man between Paul and McCain is pointless.
Obama is the next prez. he will be even if the Republicans were able to resurrect Abe Lincoln as their nominee.
And I hope the Republican party does throw the evangelicals under the bus; that should have been done long ago.
89 - Chuck
Makes no sense...ok Dave, Answer this then.
and also this today.
You think I'm not making sense? Am I unreasonable to deduce this from these articles that the direction of the McCain campaign is not exactly what I said.
Riigghhtt!
90 - Chuck
Why don't you McCain supporters come on out of the democrat closet and quit pretending to be conservative. Hehehe.
91 - Chuck
While the Constitution is used as toilet paper by both so-called mainstream parties,the Republicans and the Democrats; we blog and argue and fiddle while the republic burns. How sad!
92 - Chuck
I enjoyed the blogging. I agree with some of your statements and disagree with others. For brevity sake I will use your own words to illustrate the main difference of opinion I have with you.
Dave says:
"We all want change for the better and would like to have a nation which honors liberty and individual rights as a first priority. The hard truth is that you can't accomplish those goals with every branch of the government under the control of a Democratic party dominated by socialists and internationalists. They'll throw away our sovereignty and our rights and there will be no one to stop them."
The only problem with this statement is you fail to point out that the Republican party is dominated by socialists and internationalists too.
93 - CD
Truth bit me in the ass. I'm voting for Dr. Paul no matter what. It's better than staying at home doing nothing.
The Republicans need war to divert our attention away from the taxing, spending and lack of respect for the rule of law.
94 - Drumz
Dave, accepting money from any industry that kills or spies for the Department of Defense is "pro-war," regardless of how one votes. Votes don't talk. Money talks. Nobody said it was the ONLY consideration, either. Just the main one.
Obama didn't vote for the war, but voted FOR the "Patriot Act." thus benefitting all of the contractors who support him.
More importantly, Obama received the MOST money from war contractors - do your research. You have no business writing about politics if you didn't know that.
Do you think it was any coincidence that Obama met with AIPAC the same day he locked the nomination? The same day Israel starts rattling sabers against Iran?
Even the Hollywood liberals and San Francisco activists complain about the "Jewish-run media." Do you think an Obama/AIPAC neverending war in the middle east might help the media both profit AND brainwash the masses? How about McCain's 100-year war? Yup, media benefits again.
Ron Paul and that boring old peace and liberty will never sell commercials on the war media channels. But, he seems to generate lots of traffic to free media like your blog. Hmm... Go figure. A bit ironic, eh?
But, again Dave, you failed to acknowledge that the media DID play a part in that. Just like you're doing now. Accentuate the negative, eliminate the positive.
As for McCain and his "military adventurism," I can sum that up in just two of his quotes ... "I hate the gooks," and "Bomb, bomb, bomb... bomb, bomb Iran." This guy was locked in a dungeon for crying out loud - his perspective does NOT represent America.
95 - Chuck
Ron Paul is the only person in politics that has actually voted against the socialists and internationalist you correctly point out, Dave.
96 - Chuck
BTW...The lettertogop.com sig count is now almost 6,000. Keep spreading the site around and I predict alot more sigs.
97 - Garrett J Reed
Dave,
I would just like to thank you for responding, and to pardon my self for the dig on Texas, and I am aware that Ron Paul is from there. But I'm not saying if that detracts of exacerbates the embarrassment of hailing from the long horn state. You assumed, brashly and incorrectly, that because I hold certain opinions about your government's constitution, which I have read, that I must be an ignorant paulionian. When the truth is I'm a American Student/Instructor who lives in Costa Rica, and as far as ignorant I do hold a bachelors in Political Science, a BA in International Business/Latin American Studies,and BS in Geological Science from San Diego State University. I also will be completing my thesis for in Soil Sciences this summer and graduating from California Poly-technical University, San Luis Obispo.
But obviously no one knows as much as you. So I bow to your brain.
98 - Mark A. Messer
Mr. Nalle,
Voted for Ron Paul in PA. I don't believe a word that comes out of McCain's mouth or Obama's. They both the wear the same empty suit but just have a different tie. I do believe that the GOP has lost its way and is unlikely to return to its senses. Since turning 18 in '97 I have consistently voted republican. This will be the first time that I will look into third party candidates and write in's.
I really do not know what you represent as Ron Paul's "wacko" positions. Name them and reveal your own ignorance or extremism.
99 - Tom Nicholson
I think Ron Paul and all Americans that are awake enough to see that his message is correct, are getting swcrewed. Even an idiot can see, that when Dr. Paul speaks, what he is saying is the truth. We need this man desporatly in the white house to put this country back on the right track. If anyone votes for a Dem or Rep. just because that is thier party, then we deserve exactly what we get. This man won every debate, raised more money than anyother candidate, and has the nation at heart. Do somthing right, just ounce in your life and live free like we should be.
100 - Tom Nicholson
I have lived in this country as a natural born citizen for 62 yrs. I have seen this country get worse every elction year because the people that run for election, only tell you what they think you want to hear, just to get elected. Same old message year after year, come on people wake up...can't you see that the Ron Paul message is different than the rest. I have been hearing that same message my whole life and no change. Lets do it right, lets make the government go by the constitution again and horness thier power and do it right...we are going down big time if we don't...The value of dollar alone will tell you that...C'on, Please wake up...Please.
101 - Tom
"McCain has never presented himself as 'pro-war' " that's just their interpretation. The actual war in Iraq is over and McCain is not currently advocating any other new wars. That McCain supports keeping troops in Iraq until the country is past its current troubles is more of an anti-war position, since our presence there reduces the level of violence and the risk of Iranian invasion and a full-scale war."
This is classic! Thanks a lot PoliSci professor. "since our presence there reduces the level of violence" I had to re-quote it was so good.
Do you pay any attention? The only reason there is fighting in Iraq is because we are there, if we leave, the violence stops, said by their ambassadors to our congress last week. But its tough to watch the news when you have all these convictions clouding up your mind...
WORST ARTICLE EVER
102 - Andrew
I just signed the letter.
103 - Mike
Bait, switch. Bait, switch.
104 - Dixon Cannon
Thank you, thank you, thank you for adding the link to the letter! I've now signed it and passed it on to those I know as well. It has well over 5000 signatures at the time of this writing. I don't know what the point of your article was supposed to be - another slam against our Constitution and those who support it, I suppose. But the net effect is the mass circulation of the letter to the GOP and signatures from many who would have never otherwise seen it. A good many of us plan to write in Ron Paul anyway in November. This letter will help solidify that fact in the minds of the GOP elite who are unwilling to acknowledge the Constitution, Ron Paul's leadership and the thousands of his supporters that will NOT vote for John McCain. Thank you once again! -dixon cannon
105 - Dr Dreadful
Hmm, Dixon Cannon - nice name! Sounds like a character from a 1950s pulp novel...
'Dixon Cannon: Private Eye.'
:-)
106 - Swing Voter
As with Ross Perot, Ron Paul's supporters will decide who wins this election. The rest of the Republicans can either embrace Ron Paul or lose. Their choice. I'm guessing as they're the 1 of 4 idiots in this country that continue to support Bush, they won't be smart enough to change course. So it looks like a wrap for Obama to me.
107 - ski bum
It seems a waste of time to nitpick all the blighted and manipulative statements in this article.
Why don't we all encourage a Paul-McCain debate?
That's something both sides should agree on, right?
108 - ski bum
It seems a waste of time to nitpick all the blighted and manipulative statements in this article.
Why don't we all encourage a Paul-McCain debate?
That's something both sides should agree on, right?
109 - Mike M.
"Writing articles about Paul and the Paulistas is rather like picking at a scab. It's painful and disgusting, but somehow impossible to resist.
Plus, it gets me all kinds of hits when I'm feeling very lonely and empty inside.
Dave"
There, fixed it for you...
110 - Travis
OMG .. I got all the way to page 3 and then you called Ron Paul "anti-capitalist". You are the dumbest, most ignorant, uniformed retard to ever attempt political commentary. You haven’t a clue what Ron Paul advocates. He is the best defender of Capitalism ever to reach this level of exposure in my lifetime. You had a couple okay points in retaliation to the letter from Paul's supporters, but you really need to get your head out of your ass and pay attention. 20 years from now after you are a proud citizen of the USRA (United Socialist Republic of America) why don't you take a moment and read Ron Paul's book to learn a little bit about capitalism and what it is supposed to look like. Until then enjoy your two party system of Democratic socialism/fascism (Democrat/Republican).
111 - mgb
Ahhh! The old "lesser of two evils" argument!!!
These two parties depend on that argument for survival. "We have to elect McCain because he's a little bit better!" This explosion of bureaucracy will continue under either administration.
I agree with your points about electability, but come on, Ron Paul advocates "anti-corporate, anti-capitalist populism"? Are you out of your mind? He's the only candidate who understands capitalism. It is not anti-corporate to put a check on how much influence can had on policy by corporations with enough money to get a seat at the table. That is why the authors of the Constitution warned against the existence of a Central Bank. Capitalism demands a seperation between government and the economy. You are well misinformed on this.
Ron Paul may be flawed as a candidate, but you miss the point. His candidacy is about less government. Not no government. How is that not republican? What's republican about increasing the size of government 27% in 8 years? Since the war is over, what exactly needs to happen for us to get out? How long can we afford to maintain this foriegn policy of nation building? How can we justify paying interest on our government's debts to a privately owned Central Bank? These are valid questions that no one else is asking.
You offer a lot of misrepresentations Dr. Paul's positions and attack him personally. The letter is certainly flawed, but your response to it makes you sound misguided and misinformed.
112 - Nick
The Iraq people dont even want us there so why are we. And terrorism isnt a gender or a nationality, its a way of thinking, you cant just have a genocide, therefore you will never rid the world or even a single country of terrorism. You cant destroy a way of thinking. There have been terrorist attacks since the begining of estabished countries. Anyone who is still in support of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is pro-war. We need an imediate withdraw. They cant take care of themselves, they have a president dont they? Dictator whatever you want to call it, let him deal with it. If this was honestly a real war, it would have been over the week it started. This is The United States. They are a raindrop compared to us. If they were a real threat we'd blow them up like nothing. They dont have nething on us. But its not a real war we are their for oil and power, we arnt fighting their army we are fighting them. People are coming out of their houses to kill our soldiers. If some other country came here to "help" like we do for iraq. Then we would be the ones coming out of our houses to fight, not because its a legit war but because its an aggressive invasion. There are a million more points i can make but im tired of typing now but I could go on for hours on why we need to leave. The bottom line is anybody who is still for the war is not capable of running our country. If you cant acknowledge the main problem this country is on a downfall then you have no right stepping foot into the whitehouse. and for those who think we cant pull out right away, you think that because the administrators have told you (not personally probably from cnn or fox or something) it will be a disaster and they wont be able to stand by themselves, well those people are the same people who said it would be a cake walk, why should we listen to them they have been wrong the whole time. Im not saying vote Ron Paul, im just saying you do have a brain and i wish some to think for themselves and put the logic togather enough to vote smart. John McCain is the dumbest vote you can cast.
113 - Dave Nalle
Ron Paul's supporters will decide who wins this election.
As of last count Paul had gotten what, less than 1 million popular votes?
Lots of loonies posting on the internet doesn't actually mean lots of real support.
Dave
114 - Gunner Sykes
The thing I like best about Ron Paul is that his very existence rankles someone in this "sinister cabal of superior writers."
That has to be worth a vote or two.
115 - Nick
I think hes at a littl over 1.1 million. And you have to remember that like 14 states or something like that had caucusses and not primarys. and caucusses only show like 10% of the population. So if every state had a primary and not a caucuss he would probably be around 1.7 million
116 - kenny
thanks for writing about the letter, we are getting alot of signers from here;)
Read it,Sign it and Spread it www.lettertogop.com
you will have contact info when needed;) it hasn't even been released to press yet,the egg hasn't even been cracked open, SPREAD FAR AND WIDE
117 - Tony
Mr. Nalle,
Your article is typical for a neocon. This is one republican voter you, and your presumed nominee McCain has not conned.
118 - Randall Underwood
When I read this this is what I take from it. The last gasp of a Neo Con. It is written as to appear just plain reasonable. It is meant to come across as, " after all, we all know Ron Paul is wacky, and McCain is just a solid good guy" Its presumptious and transparent. This movement to get the Republican party back inline with the tennents of the original Republican party doesnt stop with this election. This globalist, interventionist, big government, frakenstein posing as the GOP is in it's last throws. And nothing will drive that point home better than when Obama beats the pants off of McBush. Neo Con, your days are over. We want our party back, and we HAVE JUST BEGUN!
119 - kenny
dave open your eyes, you call ron paul supporters loony?? look in the mirror ;)
120 - TC
"Putting aside the fact that our trade deficits are smaller than they have been in decades" You are incredibly wrong. The trade deficit is over 5% of GDP and the modest improvement is 2007 has been completely wiped out by the rally in crude prices. Please leave the complex topics to the deep thinkers. You can return to watching pro-wrestling. Thanks
121 - Lumpy
Please. Ron Paul people. Stop the insanity. Get professional help. Go back on your meds.
122 - kegokkes
ron paul is an idea. mccain has no ideas.
123 - Barry Freed
Whether or not Mcain and Bush hate each other is irrelevant, the point is that they hold nearly identical positions on every issue.
Your contention that perpetuating the occupation of Iraq is somehow an anti-war position is truly delusional. The US invasion and occupation continues to strengthen Iran. They are laughing at us as we squander the precious blood of our young people and treasure of our nation while fueling extremism.
You and your fellow neo-cons have been full of predictions, every one of which has been proven false and has had disastrous consequences for our country.
It amazes me how proven failures and frauds are still spouting such ignorance. I hope you can smarten up before reality cracks you in the face.
124 - Marc
I have resisted the urge to respond to your last few anti-Paul posts, but your "everyone is an ignoramus except me" attitude finally got to me. I see you jumped on the Ron Paul comment bandwagon, probably after seeing how high up in Google news search results NolanChart was rising. Anyway, your flippant dismissal of the Austrian school of economics demands rebuttal. How anyone can defend our current mainstream pseudo-classical/Keynesian theories of economics, with the simplistic assumptions of cause-effect and no thought to the fact that people are by and large motivated by their own diverse interests, and not simple, predictable reasons promoted by those esteemed economists is beyond me. Do you honestly believe inflation can be controlled by bumping the interest rate? Seems more like steering a boat by pointing at the wheel from across the room. My primary reason for supporting Ron Paul is his recognition of the fact that monetary policy has far more impact on the lives of average Americans than fiscal policy, yet NO ONE except Dr. Paul dares to even mention it, for fear of having their collar yanked. If the Fed was designed to keep a check on inflation, does their dismal track record not speak volumes? Any normal business that has done such a poor job (about 96% devaluation of the dollar) would have failed after far less than 95 years. That is just one example of a failed institution that politicians refuse to admit is past it's time, and our government is full of such institutions. When things don't work, we need to abandon them, not keep them for nostalgia's sake. Oh yes, there is that small group of bankers that makes all that money...
125 - Chris Bieber
You defenders of the Faith in and of The State and its actions DONE IN YOUR NAME(with most of them(not of course the Executive Orders and Signing Statements and SPP agreements) voted FOR by you our your patriotic conservative OATHTakers promising to OBEY the limits and rules of the Constitution and your/their Bolshevik Party edicts and diktats-thanks for your Skinner Box mazeracing-like "defending". You will all get your promised reward of a bigger slice of cheese following the Republican Triumph in November.
In similarly conditioned response you AnimalFarm-ish bleat en masse(look at the numerous(mostly monosyllabic emotive rants and ad hominum inferences) that you PAULITES-TARDS-BOTS blahblahblahblah.....
Of course this last 2 years has NOT been about Ron Paul the DOCTOR or 10x ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE
It about the message of freedom so eloquently enunciated to oblivious GOPers and moderators of websites by Doctor Paul and his warnings of the consequences of the BIPARTISAN imperialism and fascism implanted on our country, culture, the families of the THOUSANDS of dead US servicepeople in that patriotic mission accompllished and Victoriously ENDED AUMF invasion and Soviet Like occupation and now bankrupt Treasury.
Our and Dr Paul's freedom message and warnings will NOT subside into sheeplike surrender to the McCain Matrix(or assimilation into the GOP Borg) and cease. We will continue our telling the American people about freedom and liberty.
We will use weapons of "journalistic" Mass Education on such non-vapid and essential "news? sites and "journalistic" havens of truth and honesty as Mr. Nalle's sinister cabal???????.
Until the collapse.
Chris in LElsinore CA
Not A Republican...again....4x time...oh well..