Real world politics is about hard choices, accepting reality and making compromises on the road to your goals.
The latest campaign from the Ron Paul movement seems to be going around to every forum and message base and blog comment area and posting a link to a letter which presents their version of a reasoned argument about why the Republican Party should reject John McCain and support Ron Paul instead. It's an interesting document, because it encapsulates in a nutshell a broad selection of the misinformation and delusion on which their campaign is based, and it also exposes some of the ways in which their John Birch Society inspired agenda deviates substantially from traditional libertarianism.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - sickntired
This is how McCain will win...this is not a joke. Everyone needs to see this if they haven't already.
27 - Dave Nalle
Are you serious????!!!!!
Sometimes, not always.
"Anarcho-socialists????!!!!!" You do realize that is an oxymoron....right?
No, it's a standard political definition for a specific philosophy.
I refer you to the Wikipedia entries for Social Anarchism and Libertarian Socialism. I wouldn't go so far as to say that all Ron Paul supporters fall in this category, but some clearly do, and some of this ideology has definitely tainted the 'movement', with its emphasis on anti-war militancy, hostility towards capitalism and nativist/protectionist elements.
Dave
28 - RM
I've got two more in the works then a whole state convention to report on which will have some Ron Paul news in it.
What you "write" is not "reporting".
It's kind of fascinating - like poking an ant mound with a stick. It's worth doing just to see the drones pour out of the mound in single-minded determination.
I bet it's just driving you nuts not being able to respond when someone pokes back and reveals just what a waste of time, space and air you are.
29 - Dave Nalle
I think someone is just trying to justify their votes for McCain when they know they're wrong. Just my opinion
I've never voted for McCain in a primary and never had the opportunity in a general election. I held my nose and voted for Ron Paul in the GOP primary. In the fall I won't be voting for Obama. Beyond that I want to see how McCain shapes up. I'm relatively positively impressed with Bob Barr, but I just don't see him winning coming out of the LP.
Dave
30 - Dave Nalle
RM. I'm a writer. I write straight news and I write editorial material. This article is an opinion piece, though it contains factual material. See my second most recent article for a factual news piece on a Ron Paul related issue. I even write fiction and poetry.
Since some people - you included apparently - can't tell the difference between News and Opinion, Blogcritics provides a convenient tag at the top of each article to TELL you if it's news or opinion or something else.
Dave
31 - Kyle
"The actual war in Iraq is over"
How do you figure that, if I may ask? I mean, I suppose you could say that the war has been over since May of 2003, when the daring 'mission accomplished' speech was delivered. In that case, though, I'm not really sure why Americans have been dying on Iraq's desert battle fields for the past five years. Hm...
And you know where else I've heard the phrase 'mission accomplished'? From John McCain, in that same year. So much for hate...
32 - RM
RM. I'm a writer.
Yes, yes. I'm sure that your mommy keeps telling you that. Everyone else just sniggers under their breath. No worries, it's not like the ladies take you seriously anyways.
33 - Baba Padmanabhan
Hey dude - thanks for doing a report on www.lettertogop.com, the signature count is now at 5500, I'm sure you brought some traffic to the site yourself...welcome to the r3VOLution.
34 - Baritone
I believe there are a great number of "simple minded" voters out there. They managed to elect a simple minded president - twice.
These same simpletons are certainly capable of espousing contradictory positions.
"We've gotten way too lazy with calling everything a war anyway."
I disagree. What constitutes "war" has changed dramatically since Vietnam or even Korea. The government persisted in referring to the Korean conflict as a "police action." The nature of warfare hardly resembles that we came to understand through WWII.
And the Bushies never fail to remind us that we are in fact "at war." If people are deployed to a foreign nation and incur hostilities from an organized enemy, or enemies, that, for my money, constitutes war.
It seems that most commenters here assume a McCain victory in November. I guess even typing out the words 'President Obama' is just too much for all you conservative, Reps, Libertars, or Paulites to bear.
I'm still looking for some "conservative care package" suggestions.
B-tone
35 - RussellK
"I refer you to the Wikipedia entries for Social Anarchism and Libertarian Socialism. I wouldn't go so far as to say that all Ron Paul supporters fall in this category, but some clearly do, and some of this ideology has definitely tainted the 'movement', with its emphasis on anti-war militancy, hostility towards capitalism and nativist/protectionist elements."
If you read through those articles you linked, you would see that the description of those "philosophies" are just as contradictory as their title suggests. It is silly to use them to make any serious point.
"This equality and freedom would be achieved through the abolition of authoritarian institutions and private property,[2] in order that direct control of the means of production and resources will be gained by the working class and society as a whole. Libertarian socialism also constitutes a tendency of thought that informs the identification, criticism and practical dismantling of illegitimate authority in all aspects of social life. Accordingly libertarian socialists believe that "the exercise of power in any institutionalized form - whether economic, political, religious, or sexual - brutalizes both the wielder of power and the one over whom it is exercised."
Is it even possible to abolish property rights without exercising institutional power? If you don't see the silliness in that description, I am sorry. If you use that to describe Ron Paul supporters, you know nothing of this movement.
36 - Deno
I believe by just these sorts of articles prove the impact on the Republican Party. To be honest the Republican Party bosses aren't worried about that letter as much as their worried about being thrown out of their leadership roles. This election doesn't mean anything to hardcore Republicans but the Ron Paul movement definitely does.
37 - A. C.
The letter has 4,000 signatures, which is a lot? Over two million people in the U.S. are suffering from schizophrenia today, not to mention bipolar and other serious mental illnesses. It should be easy to find over 4,000 people to sign that Ron Paul letter.
38 - badmedia
I quit reading once you tried to convince me it was a lie that McCain was pro-war. I'm not a big fan of satire really.
39 - Al Barger
NALLE- WE TRUE PATRIOTS IE RON PAUL SUPPORTERS SEE THROUGH YOUR FASCIST RANTS TO YOUR ROLE IN THE JEW BANKER CONSPIRACY THAT IS RUINING THE COUNTRY. PRESIDENT RON PAUL WILL PUT THE WHITE MAN BACK IN CHARGE OF THIS CHRISTIAN COUNTRY. YOUR DAY WILL COME, JEW-LOVER. YEE-HAW!
40 - RM
ok, please don't tell me that i was the only one nauseated by that.
41 - Dr Dreadful
Perhaps not, RM, but you may have been the only one not to get the satire.
42 - Clavos
Off his meds, too...:>)
43 - ThomasfromTexas
You need the reality check. It's a waste of time responding to your points. The bottom line is that Ron Paul had no media coverage and his percentage in recent primaries has been rising up to almost 25% against someone who was the presumed nominee... How can you explain such grassroots support? Open your eyes and wake up. The neocons and McCain are for war (Iran is next...). What a wasted article. This country has no choice come November unless Ron Paul's name is on the ballot.
44 - ThomasfromTexas
Check out: McCain: Mr. Straight Talk
45 - Dave Nalle
Al B. is welcome to shamelessly promote his rather interesting blog article on my comments thread anytime.
Dave
46 - bill
america is in great shape, let's not try to make it better
47 - James
McCain is not Pro-war?? I am laughing so hard right now my side is hurting. McCain thinks we should be in Iraq for 100 years, remember that little remark? Not to mention he is a liberal who supports Al Gores Global Warming Plan. The Paul supporters are the most active people putting forward the most effort and competing in every way possible including the local level. I am inspired by these great people and I have decided to join them. If this was just a presidential run to become president Ron Paul would just quit. This is a movement and it will outlast the Ron Paul legacy. It is the idea we support not as much as the man. That is what you neocons don't get were not just going to give up. The fight has just begun.
Liberty is Calling!
48 - Kendall Young
I'm sixty years old. Not an old man, but certainly not a young one. I didn't "dodge the draft," but I drew a 'big number' in the lottery and never got drafted. However, I never had a problem with anyone that left the country because of the draft. I figured that as an American we have sole ownership of ourselves. I still do!
I find it interesting that this discussion seems to be pivoting about "war" in some fashion or another. I dare say that I believe that most everyone commenting has no "firsthand knowledge" about whether or not we should be "at war" with the Iraqis. I'm also "sure" that most of you never stop to contemplate the horror that a war represents to the Iraqi people.
I see a lot of bickering back and forth, and it reminds me of high school debate. There does not seem to be any solid philosophical positions taken by those opposed to Dr. Paul.
I guess I have to ask the question: Is it better to trade with your neighbor or to overpower him and capture his goods?
49 - Charger
"It's an interesting document, because it encapsulates in a nutshell a broad selection of the misinformation and delusion on which their campaign is based, and it also exposes some of the ways in which their John Birch Society inspired agenda deviates substantially from traditional libertarianism." - D.N.
I read and re-read the letter three times, and I still can't see how the above sentence relates to it at all.
Also, since Ron Paul is a member of the republican party, how could his deviating from traditional libertarianism be an issue? He's a conservative!
50 - Dave Nalle
McCain is not Pro-war?? I am laughing so hard right now my side is hurting. McCain thinks we should be in Iraq for 100 years, remember that little remark?
Be in Iraq, not be at war in Iraq. Vital difference. A long term presence in the region is not the same as being at war there. Might even be a way NOT to be at war.
Not to mention he is a liberal who supports Al Gores Global Warming Plan.
Never said he was perfect, just that he's better than Obama.
The Paul supporters are the most active people putting forward the most effort and competing in every way possible including the local level. I am inspired by these great people and I have decided to join them.
I still give them limited support. I just can't sign on for the craziness which goes with all the good stuff.
If this was just a presidential run to become president Ron Paul would just quit. This is a movement and it will outlast the Ron Paul legacy.
Once the movement gets past Paul I think it stands a chance of getting something done. I doin't see that happeneing yet.
It is the idea we support not as much as the man. That is what you neocons don't get were not just going to give up. The fight has just begun.
You need to learn who is and is not a neocon before you're going to make much progress. Calling real libertarians neocons just makes you look ignorant.
Dave
51 - Scott Harmon
Well, let's just stop pretending that McCain is an antidote for what ails us. He's more of the same, Bush III, or whatever you call him. The Republican Party, lost in the haze of WWII glories and remembrances, old and fatigued, is ready to die. Through Bush I and II, the Republican Party has relished the Cold War, the Iraq Wars, and the embrace of rampant colonialism throughout the world. The Republican Party is a top-down, Stalinistic organization that bows to the masters of multinational businesses and corporatism, and seeks out the most base elements of American society (fundamentalists and warmongers) to complete its mission. Yes, McCain will do well with these groups.
But the game is up. Many people are tired of anything that smells like Bush and the idiotocracy that he has created. I am not pro-Obama, but it looks like anything different this year will sell.
52 - Dave Nalle
Also, since Ron Paul is a member of the republican party, how could his deviating from traditional libertarianism be an issue? He's a conservative!
But..but..but..his followers all claim he's a (small l) libertarian. But you've hit the nail on the head. He's not a libertarian and he's not a republican (again, small r). He's something else.
Keep an eye out for my future article..."Ron Paul is Not a Libertarian."
Dave
53 - Brandon
This piece is probably the most un-objective amount of information I've ever read. Mc Cain is completely pro-war, to say he isn't pro-war because he isnt for starting new wars is ridiculous. Your argument, first off, isnt even compatible because he wants war with Iran, he's joked about bombing them and advocates a policy of intervention, he has even stated he would prefer their government to be overthrown, etc. You are a moron and people who read this should treat these lines of information typed from your fingers as they are, another way to divert attention from the real issue as to why Ron Paul supporters despise Mc Cain. We hate Mc Cain because he doesn't represent our country. 70% of the American people want us out of Iraq, Mc Cain doesn't want us out. Research something before typing, I know it's hard for people like you, but please do. Thanks.
54 - rokdevil
I just wish I could understand why I'm considered a "drone". I'm certainly not "an idle person who lives off others" nor am I "a loafer". I have to assume that you mean more like a blind follower. However, even if that's what you meant you missed by a mile. Contrary to popular belief I think that most Paulites are much more discerning in their political leanings. For myself I tend to follow up on statements that politicians make and I've found Dr. Paul to be pretty consistent.
Another thing I don't understand is the common belittling of Dr. Paul's insistence on following the Constitution. Is there something wrong with doing so? Is he misreading it somehow? I never seem to get an answer to that one, like its some secret that's closely held by a benign group of elders who just don't want to upset me.
McCain's poor control of his temper has been pretty well documented.
I understand your reference to the "actual war" being over but when a country has 140k+ troops controlling a country and many of the residents don't like it I think we could classify it as pretty much a war.
And I think its safe to say that he is in favor of military solutions to political problems. He considers the Iraq war "necessary and just" even though we know that the invasion of Iraq was neither necessary nor just. He has also joked about bombing Iran. Not your crispiest cookie in the pack.
I think that most Paulites are reasonable people who are tired of unreasonable behavior by politicians. We see that in general our government has simply gone to far in most things and we would like to downsize it to a reasonable level.
55 - Garrett J Reed
"'Anarcho-socialists????!!!!!" You do realize that is an oxymoron....right?'
No, it's a standard political definition for a specific philosophy.
I refer you to the Wikipedia entries for Social Anarchism and Libertarian Socialism."
Point of order.
Social Anarchism, even as defined by wikipedia, a source no academic takes completely seriously, is in no way "Socialism" as in government enforced and sponsored redistribution of wealth.
But sure if you want to be diluted and think that they are the same philosophy, be my guest. Just saying it's better to check your "factually based" opinions on something other then wikipedia, saves on the embarrassment, if being from Texas wasn't enough of one.
One thing I do agree though is we shouldn't be lazy and define every thing as WAR, Iraq is an extended military police action. And we should define it as such, as by that definition it is clearly a violation of our constitution. You know that thing that also forbids foreign intervention except in the case of a war on our soil.
56 - Dave Nalle
Point of order.
Social Anarchism, even as defined by wikipedia, a source no academic takes completely seriously, is in no way "Socialism" as in government enforced and sponsored redistribution of wealth.
Wikipedia draws those entries from reputable sources. Check the footnotes. As for anarchism and socialism, the fact is that they are NOT incompatible. If anarchism gets rid of ALL property and ALL wealth, then socialism no longer involves redistribution of wealth because there is none. Socialism only involves redistribution of wealth in a capitalist society with property ownership. Get rid of that and it all changes.
But sure if you want to be diluted and think that they are the same philosophy, be my guest.
Of course they're not the same, but the reason you apply a hyphenated name is that elements can be combined to produce a hybrid of the two.
Just saying it's better to check your "factually based" opinions on something other then wikipedia,
I didn't need to check Wikipedia. I just linked to it to make it easy for you. My years as a libertarian, my reading in political philosophy and my time as an academic make me more than cognizant, off the top of my head of what the terms mean and how they relate.
saves on the embarrassment, if being from Texas wasn't enough of one.
Ron Paul is from Texas, remember?
And we should define it as such, as by that definition it is clearly a violation of our constitution. You know that thing that also forbids foreign intervention except in the case of a war on our soil.
You need to actually READ the Constitution sometime. Your first point is debatable and the SC has ruled that your interpreation is wrong and that the AUMF is in fact a declaration of war. And your second statement is pure bollocks.
The one valid point is that the AUMF under the Constitution should not have been allowed to have a term of more than 2 years, but the argument there is that subsequent acts have effectively renewed or reissued the AUMF.
Dave
57 - TJ
"the idea that McCain has close ties with Bush is just something they want people to believe and not supported by the facts. McCain and Bush actively hate each other."
So you are going to analyze a piece on the facts and then state "McCain and Bush actively hate each other." Do you realize how that makes everything you say not credible. Anybody who reads your piece needs to realize you are no better than the letter they support.
Go to college and learn a skill.
58 - Dave Nalle
TJ, what actual evidence do you have that Bush and McCain are bosom buddies? Would it be Bush's use of a rumor that McCain had a black baby against him in the 2000 election? I bet that's a great way to start a longtime friendship. Or perhaps it was McCain's active opposition to Bush's efforts to circumvent FISA and the Geneva Convention? Bush loves people who try to screw with his plans. I bet they held hands after that.
Please, don't be a tard. It's politics. They'll work together because the alternative is worse. Doesn't mean they like each other.
Dave
59 - non neocondrethal
you wrote, "McCain has never presented himself as 'pro-war' " that's just their interpretation."
let me remind you of that little ditty he sang, I believe it goes: "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran." You've heard it.
And, why is it necessary to "interpret" his stance on war? Don't you think we've had enough of that crap? How about someone who says it like it is? Someone with INTEGRITY and HONESTY for a change?
you added, "The actual war in Iraq is over and McCain is not currently advocating any other new wars."
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT? The war in Iraq is OVER? Wow, I gotta get me one of them time machines too. "...not currently advocating any other new wars..." see above.
What saddens me the most is that this is all very simple. So simple, a monkee can understand it. Really. Our country has LAWS. If they are violated, it is OUR RESPONSIBILITY to make noise about it. Unless of course, you are unamerican. DUH.
60 - RM
Ok, if everyone is through watching mr. Nalle stroke himself in this mental masturbation that he likes to think of a "journalism". You just encourage him by responding to his "points", and it post-pones his getting a life.
61 - Dave Nalle
let me remind you of that little ditty he sang, I believe it goes: "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran." You've heard it.
Why do the Paulistas bring that up again and again? Is having a sense of humor illegal now? Or is it because they have no sense of humor that they find McCain having one offensive?
How about someone who says it like it is? Someone with INTEGRITY and HONESTY for a change?
Sounds great. Can I add that he not be a racist, homophobe or religious nutcase?
What saddens me the most is that this is all very simple. So simple, a monkee can understand it. Really. Our country has LAWS. If they are violated, it is OUR RESPONSIBILITY to make noise about it. Unless of course, you are unamerican. DUH.
Seig Heil! Obey the law! Obery ALL the laws! Obey the PATRIOT ACT! Obey the MCA! Obey FISA! Obey Real ID! Obey, obey. Don't think, just obey! If Congress passes it then it must be good. Obey!
Dave
62 - Monty
what a tool
63 - McCain is a Traitor
He killed 167 sailors on the USS Forestal when he wet started his airplane and his admiral daddy had him transferred before the smoke cleared. Then he got captured and "songbird" McCain gave away information that killed countless others. He should get a noose instead of a political seat; however, I'm not an American and I hate American's so, you deserve him.
64 - Henry
You said he is not advocating new wars hmmm ok. Did you forget already of his speech which he said there will be more wars. Oh and lets not forget the 100 years in Iraq statement he made. Try again buddy.
65 - Matthew Miller
Sir you are delusional, and you are doing a great disservice to this country by promoting John McCain, if you love your country ,love your children and are concerned about their future, you will vote Ron Paul, please stop with this nonsense journalism.
66 - Former GOPer
"let me remind you of that little ditty he sang, I believe it goes: "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran." You've heard it.
Why do the Paulistas bring that up again and again? Is having a sense of humor illegal now?"
There is nothing funny about a candidate for the United States singing about bombing another country. This would not be acceptable for any other world leader and certainly not for the President of the United States. The fact that you think the war in Iraq is over, that McCain is not pro-war and that singing about bombing Iran is funny destroys completely your credibility in writing about politics.
67 - Vincent
Honestly this article has too many mistakes to even spend time correcting you on it. Ron Paul's policies are the same as Bush's in 2000 and Reagan. Reagan helped Ron Paul get elected. It's a shame people like you get a forum to which you can post drivel like this. Your obvious man love for McCain is clearly clouding your vision. He is a liberal and a flip flopping liar. It's hard to even know what McCain believes in because he says different things depending on who is listening. Honestly, Hillary would have been a more Republican candidate than McCain is. You clearly have shot yourself in the foot, but don't worry McCain will take that gun away as soon as possible....look at his voting record. Conservative.....HA!!!
68 - Dave Nalle
He killed 167 sailors on the USS Forestal when he wet started his airplane
Multiple eyewitnesses said he wasn't even IN his plane when it happened. Perhaps they were all lying. Of course they were. It's a conspiracy, right?
Dave
69 - Dave Nalle
It's a shame people like you get a forum to which you can post drivel like this.
Indeed, let's start rewriting the Constitution by getting rid of the first amendment.
Your obvious man love for McCain is clearly clouding your vision.
Love of the truth is all it takes, McCain is just in the right place at the right time.
Honestly, Hillary would have been a more Republican candidate than McCain is.
Wow, you really are deranged.
You clearly have shot yourself in the foot, but don't worry McCain will take that gun away as soon as possible....look at his voting record.
That would be the voting record where he voted against the Brady Assault weapon ban and against shutting down gun shows and against magazine size limits, right?
Dave
70 - mike in va
Let's take a look. Ron Paul gives a large part of his federal compensation package back to the Treasury or does not spend it (our money, folks).
John McCain will not even follow his own campaign finance law. Who is more honest? I'll take a chance on the guy who speaks truth. McCain has shown he is nothing but a whore of a politician, willing to say or do ANYTHING to get elected, as will most of our elected reps. Dr. Paul just repeats his message. At least we know where Paul stands. McCain will do whatever the polls or his CFR handlers require. Lots of mininformation in this article. So sad for our country. Am reading the book "The Forgotten Man" about the '20's, '30's and '40's. Amazing how little politics has changed over the years. Hoover and Roosevelt really moved the "governmnet can fix your ills" mindset forward. Unforeseen fallout from these programs still poison us to this day. Check my facts, but I believe during this time that American Aluminum was targeted as a monopoly or with higher taxes and it was reporesented to the people as a large company taking advantage of employees and the consumer. This despite the fact that the price of aluminum fell during the twenty years prior to this government imposition? Folks, our government has become too large and is now dictating to US, rather than us dictating to THEM. We have created a class of professional politicians that do not have the best interests of the county at heart. My suggestion is to vote out all incumbents in almost every election cycle. One should not be able to have a career based on deceit and taxation of one's countrymen. I mean, John Warner, Ted Kennedy? Over 40 years in congress for each of them is way too long. I am no fan of term limits but we also should not put up with a rigged election game that gives incumbents all the advantages.
71 - Don
Ron Paul's lack of knowledge about foreign policy?
What? Did you really say that? He's the ONLY candidate that when he talks about foreign policy he uses details AND he is right: we are resented in the middle east ( and western europe ) because we occupy their countries. How many foreign countries have military bases in the U.S.? ZERO. Why? Because we'd never allow that crap! We'd be fighting mad if China tried to set up camp in the Gulf of Mexico for example. It's not really rocket sceience. What is McCain's reasoning? They hate us because we're free and prosperous? Then why dont' they hate Switzerland and the nordic countries and Canada? Oh that's right. McCain said once that they hate us because we are THE MOST free and prosperous. Who are the brain dead morons that hear that and go "that's right!"?
72 - Chuck
I grew up under Reagan, voted for Bush Sr., voted Libertarian when my party ran Bob Dole, voted for Bush Jr. twice and have supported Republicans at every level of government from local to state to national. I'm a Conservative first and a Republican second. I say all this to prove my credentials and put the leadership of the Republican party on notice. I will NOT support McCain or any other RINO in the future and nothing you wrote in the article will change it. The Neo-cons and RINO's have control of the party and they have destroyed it by not governing by the principles they supposedly believe in. Not only am I not voting McCain, I will influence every Conservative to do the same. If the Republican party is not punished for saying one thing and then doing the opposite, just pray tell how will the party be forced to change? McCain epitomizes every thing wrong in the Republican party.
73 - Chuck
This sums it up nicely!
74 - Carole
Mr. Nalle:
You would not recognize a real Conservative republican because you are poisoned by neocon lack of principle.
Dr. Paul is the most principled legislator in DC-dare I say, the most principled politician this country has seen in years.
I will not feel sorry for you later when you regret that you maligned a true Republican and patriot who loves America.
75 - Richard
Wow! Dave, if you're going to title something like this a "reality check" you might want to get a better grip on reality.