One of the main components of a community is a sharing of ideas and opinions. This is important because it is the catalyst for the whole process of learning from each other. Coming to the table with your opinion without the desire to learn or think about what others say is counterproductive to the process. There will always be different individuals who know more about some things than other individuals in the community and this is all a part of the process of the members becoming more well-rounded as a result.
The more opinionated the members of a community are, the better chance it has of not falling into the dangerous territory of "group-think." When members of the community come to the table to spout their own thoughts and refuse to consider the thoughts of others, it has the potential to go the other way so that nobody is gaining anything. Being a know-it-all doesn't do anyone any good. It stifles positive relations and keeps topics from progressing. A conclusion never actually has to be reached for a topic to progress, but an understanding of where other members are coming from is of utmost importance.
I know a lot of us here at BlogCritics don't agree on a great many things, and this is one of our strengths. BUT, without the understanding that any one member doesn't know everything and is wrong every now and then, the communication falls into a quagmire of communication breakdown and stifled growth.
Why would you come to BlogCritics? Certainly it is another outlet for people to write and will offer greater traffic to personal sites, but it's also so you can get feedback from a wider audience of readers and fellow BlogCritics. Contributing ideas and posts is just half the process. Without the interactions and a desire to gain from those interactions, BlogCritics becomes not as much of a community and more of a repository.
I feel like the majority of the time we have the right attitudes when going into our various topics, but lately with the issues of the war, it has become a situation where lines are drawn in the sand and the unwillingness to bend on any points is very frustrating.
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Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Brian Flemming
Shut up!
2 - TDavid
Good post, Craig, and something that has needed to be written.
I think one thing that would really help -- at least me, any way -- is for some folks to try and just answer questions.
I've become frustrated, and basically will/have reduce(d) interaction (reading and commenting), with some folks around these parts who won't answer clarifying questions about their words.
It's like they are stuffing their opinions down our throats, but when questioned then one is called names, or the original question is deflected or dismissed. If I'm asking you a question, then that question is important to me, but it is extremely arrogant to assume that I was asking if that question was important to you.
Instead it's like (sometimes), oh no, some folks will avoid answering that question and complain at the injustice of even being asked a question. Or assume the question asked meant something deeper, darker and more sinister than was ever intended.
Man, if a question bothers any one reading this, please take some time off and come back when you feel better. Questions are how people gather information and come to an understanding. They aren't part of some conspiracy to take you off the web.
If someone asks you yes or no to something, then just answer yes or no and then qualify it if you must, absolutely, but in all that clarification please don't forget the all-important answer.
If presented with a contradiction in words or behavior and asked for clarification, then what's wrong with saying you made a mistake or were in error if you really were?
I make lots of mistakes. I made one earlier when I misread what John Mudd had said. I apologized. Then he came back and misused my name. Mistakes are human and (hopefully) we all are.
I don't know any of you folks personally or professionally (haven't done biz with any of you), so my personal and professional frame of reference is only the words that you write. Period. No agendas on my part, nobody I "hate". I have already written about my perspective by using words to describe who is who to me here.
So just because someone asks a question doesn't necessarily mean they are being sarcastic or vindictive. Assume the best in people and their questions as friendly first, instead of last. Suspicion runs amok with the commentary from some folks around here and I'm confused by that. Unless there is evidence that something is suspicious, under-handed, unethical, etc, then why take that road?
I know the internet is filled with trolls, but I like thinking that this group, if there is such a thing here, is at least a little more mature than so many other places online.
If it wasn't, then I wouldn't be here, that much is for certain. If too many trolls start inhabiting these pages, then I'll move on (quietly, no fanfare, I promise) to greener pastures.
Good post, Craig.
3 - BB
I certainly agree with you Craig. Blogcritics falls within the definition of "community" with all of its benefits, responsibilities and blemishes thereof. I also believe that diversity is a community's strength. As a reader I really do enjoy all of the varying opinions presented by my fellow Blogcritics and as you said we can't possibly have all the answers.
I must add however there are those who can sometimes be a little overbearing and obnoxious and even downright rude in expressing their views. When we disagree with each other it is important that we show respect and civility no matter how passionate or convinced we may be of our position. As a writer I try to keep that in mind and treat others as I wish to be treated accordingly. When we make our views known we are not only writing to our fellow Blogcritics, but we are also writing to the entire online world. They will be making judgments based upon what we write and we should always be mindful of that.
4 - Eric Olsen
This post makes me very happy because it reminds me that people do care and this isn't just a relationship of convenience, of course it is that too.
Craig has been a very active and fine contributor since he joined this summer and he is right about the war - it is a very divisive and emotional topic. He should have been around in early spring when the shit really hit the fan.
No matter how much we may want to be conciliatory and not argue just to argue (which IS stupid and pointless) there are some issues - and it may be different issues for different people - where the nerves are very close to the surface and there is little or no room to give. When these topics come up - and they are almost always news diriven - then battle lines are drawn, sides are taken, and things can get very contentious.
While it is can be difficult and painful and ugly, it also shows that people do have core beliefs they are willing to stand up for and this is always to be respected even if it is hard in the heat of battle.
I get angry sometimes, I can be dogmatic, I often feel like saying "It's this way because I say it is and fuck you" (doesn't work with the kids either) but that isn't terribly helpful or illuminating.
Contention is uncomfortable but it isn't necessarily bad - if people didn't feel strongly about anything, this would be a boring, wishy washy place.
We should absolutely, though, try to play by some basic rules of courtesy, respect, and try to keep matters on topics not personalities. But I know I'm not the only one with a bad temper.
5 - BB
When we read a post that contradicts our paradigms, two things can happen. Either our position will be changed or we will become more entrenched. Sometimes we become entrenched because we are too proud or embarrassed to admit we were wrong. Or it could be on a topic that shakes the very foundations our being. So we passionately argue our position, but in so doing we sometimes lose our temper and say things not befitting of world-class writers that we are (or should be). What we must remember is that we are only discussing an opinion and nothing more. And in the grand scheme of things it probably doesn't really matter one way or the other. Whatever our view, we should always remember to express ourselves dispassionately and with respect to our counterpart.
6 - duane
"Where there is much desire to learn, there of necessity will be much arguing, much writing, many opinions; for opinion in good men is but knowledge in the making." --- Milton, Aeropagitica
7 - Natalie Davis
Funny, I have never thought of this as a community -- only as a place to write.
8 - Mac Diva
Of course I agree with what Craig says in general. But, my time at Blogcritics has often reminded me just how deep divisions run in our society. In addition to that, I researched reaction to the story of Strom Thurmond's mixed-race daughter today, so I am fresh from being reminded how much many people in the blogosphere hate people of color as I write this. Yes, hate. When people blame a 15-year-old house maid in the Deep South for being impregnated by her white employer in 1924, that is hate. When they say, 'I guarantee you there are no niggers, high yellers or Indian princesses in my family tree' that is hate. When one of them, a Blogcritics member, says the way Essie Washington-Williams was treated was 'good,' that is evidrence of hate. Otherwise, he would not see dehumanizing her as just fine. Furthermore, several members of BC jumped right on to a racially motivated campaign against me, personally. Some of them are still up in arms because I refuse to follow their orders, as white men, that I not write about racial matters. More hatred -- and incredible arrogance. Unless all of that hatred can be accounted for under the rubric of community, I guess I'm just a writer who contributes to Blogcritics like Natalie.
9 - Sandra Smallson
I almost want to puke:) What is this slush?:) No disrepect to your post Craig, I respect it though I disagree with it. It is one or two subsequent posts that have given rise to nausea. Not Eric's, because I quite like his post as well, and agree with most of what is in it.
However, this matter is very simple in my opinion. We are all adults here. If you find yourself on a topic where you feel nobody is "answering"( I find some mean, agreeing with them when they say, answer questions. A response in dispute is referred to as not answering the question)...yes, if nobody is answering your questions or nobody is sticking to the topic or there are far too many "personal attacks"( which they are quite willing to throw as well, often poorly disguised, but yours just happens to hit the nail on the head it seems, with all the pathetic outcry you may get from all corners) going on.
You have options. You have a choice. You can either exhibit that "exemplary"( exemplary, shexemplary!:) behaviour of yours by sticking to the topic and not involving yourself in personal attacks or you can just ignore that topic as a whole if it does not suit your "priciples" or why you are a member of blogcritics.
There is no need to tell people how to express their opinions. We can all sing songs about courtesy and respect, but the reasons that the forefathers of the English language even made words that show disrespect and lack of courtesy is precisely because some people DESERVE to be disrespected and be spoken to with a complete lack of courtesy. This may not be so in your view, but it is your view and it should not be imposed on other posters. Neither should content of post or words contained in posts and how they would be better presented in your view be imposed on writers.
10 - Sandra Smallson
I think if you find yourself excessively worried about "personal attacks" then, they might have hit this nerve we are all claiming to hit in topics, and that is why you would be angry about it.
Theres no use saying there is such a thing as courtesy, manners , respect, and all that jazz. I can't speak for everybody but once I refer to you with a lack of those things, its exactly because I believe you deserve neither of those things at that particular point in time. Its my belief and my feeling and no amount of passer-bys to the topic who have nothing to contribute but just to preach on how to post "respectfully" are going to change that feeling of mine.
Its a wonderful website. I am enjoying visiting the site several times a day. It has tremendous comic value for me, like I have said before. I normally pay for this level of amusement. My opinions have not been changed on anything, I have no interest in changing any opinions. I look forward to having my opinion on something changed, or shock! Horror! changing someone's opinion on something:) I won't loose any sleep over it though:)
I have learned how some people reason and why some people reason the way they reason. People have different reasons for coming here. They should not be told what the site really is for, then be told if they dont agree with that, what is the point? They have their own points. All in all, I am liking it..liking it a lot. The level of paranoia is sometimes frightening..e.g an Iraq Post, with the original poster not caring about Sadaam being found and likening Bush to Sadaam..lol..now, come on..thats gotta take the biscuit? I am no Bushite but if I join that sort of post I dont think I would be able to stop, so I am practising self rstraint. Its the first site I visit once I turn on my puter, thats how much I am enjoying it despite AND inspite of some people:)
11 - Al Barger
Look, I like to try to be magnanimous, for this makes ME, AL BARGER look good. Still though, echoing the wise words of supporters of Barry Goldwater, in your hearts you know I'm right.
Why do you waste time and insist on making yourselves look bad by disagreeing with ME, AL BARGER on any topic?
Follow me, become my willing servants!
12 - Eric Olsen
The whole "community" thing can be pushed too hard, and the hyping of it was one of the downfalls of the Internet boom, but in a general sense I'm not sure how you can deny that there is some form of community here: that doesn't mean agreement, geniality, lack of division, etc.: it means people gather voluntarily to do something on a regular basis. If you do that you are part of some form of "community" in any definition I am aware of.
And by the way, on Blogcritics itself, I have seen nothing but condemnation for Thurmond's treatment of his daughter from every political direction.
13 - Craig Lyndall
I am not expecting us to stand arm-in-arm singing songs of peace and joy. Don't you think people argue and have different opinions at their local townhall meetings? This is a community because we interact in the comments. You are never posting on this site without opening yourself up for comments. So that makes it more than just a place to write.
Anyway, I am really not that cheesy a guy, but I fell into an interaction yesterday that left me sour. I didn't like the way the other person was acting and I ended up hating the things that I wrote too. I could have used this reminder so I wrote it.
14 - jadester
i would but, y'know, i'm kinda busy at the moment. I'm also kinda lazy...
15 - Natalie Davis
Craig, I see it as a place to write. I have the right to see it that way. You can see it however you see it.
16 - Craig Lyndall
With all due respect, you are commenting. This is interaction. With the addition of this how can you just say it is merely a place to write?
17 - Mac Diva
Craig, I can't tell Natalie's story, but I will tell mine.
I started out thinking I was part of a community -- liberal bloggers, if you will. I had done a lot of research on the neo-Confederate movement starting years ago with a stint in Virginia as a reporter. When the Trent Lott situation arose this time last year, I sent some of that material to John Marshall and Atrios. About the same time, another issue I had researched came up -- gun laws and that nasty little fraud John Lott. Ditto. And, so on. The upshot was that I was invited to contribute to several well-known blogs and did so. However, without realizing it, I was apparently already inciting jealousy and resentment. About four months later, I started my own blogs. They attracted readers and became pretty popular. Soon after, a white woman with some severe emotional problems, including Asperger Syndrome, began going to usually Right Wing sites and posting attacks on Mac Diva. (My blogging ID, which is a separate thing from others, believe me.) Soon, some of her friends joined her. They posted some of the most racist drivel this side of the Aryan Nations -- and ran back to their blogs and did their phony liberal shticks right after. Right Wingers with racial problems of their own were happy to join in, of course. The whole thing came to a head when I wrote about it on Mac-a-ro-nies, because, according to Bell's Rules, I wasn't supposed to speak up for myself -- even against a crazy white woman. From that experience, I learned that white bloggers, both liberal and conservative, are a community alright -- when they are bound together by racism. A Jim Cappozola is just as bad as a Dean Esmay. A Lisa English is the liberal equivalent of a Ricky West. [name removed by request] belongs with the 'scientific' racists at Gene Expression because she is really no different from them. Though a few minority bloggers are brown-nosing their proboscises off to be members of that warped community, I have no desire to join them.
So, I've already had an experience with blogging and community. It taught me what I really needed to know.
18 - Craig Lyndall
I don't think you are getting my point. Whether you like it or not. Whether you realize it or not, this is a community. You are participating in a virtual community. The definition is pretty loose and open. Contributing and interacting by a group of select members makes a community. You post, you comment, you are participating.
19 - Mac Diva
But, what about 'in it, but not of it'? Is that possible?
20 - TDavid
Yup Sandra, the size of my privates was really "on topic" the other day ;) I don't think that's personal though, no way, and I bet nobody else here would either. Why don't we talk about the spot between your legs?
21 - TDavid
And what exactly is a "priciples"? Enquiring minds want to know.
22 - Phillip Winn
Craig, some people see the word "community" and seem to expect everybody to agree. The concept of ideological diversity within the same community is just foreign to them. If you think about it, that explains quite a bit about the world in general.
Me, I'm happy to be involved with a website in which views from all over are well-represented, even if some of them are freakin' crazy, as demonstrated on this very post. <grin>
I have gotten to the point where I'll give people one or two chances, and then largely ignore them if they're clearly insane. But I don't base my judgment of their sanity on their political or religious views, simply on how they interact with other members of the Blogcritics community.
Thanks for the post!
23 - bhw
*guffaw* TDavid! LOL....
24 - bhw
We can all sing songs about courtesy and respect, but the reasons that the forefathers of the English language even made words that show disrespect and lack of courtesy is precisely because some people DESERVE to be disrespected and be spoken to with a complete lack of courtesy.
This one's got my brain a spinnin' ....
25 - Eric Olsen
Are we back to the poor pope?