I feel like I've written all these words before, but the lotus eaters still are not listening.
"We have to understand that we're fighting a war against people who think that they are engaged in a cosmic battle between the forces of good and evil. They believe that this is not an earthly battle. This is a war between the forces of Christianity and the forces of Islam." - Reza Aslan…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments226 - gonzo marx
and you cum by just to show you can catch the results in your beak?
moonraven = virtual bukkake!
good to know, imo
Excelsior?
227 - Dave Nalle
Fine, now I get it:
Nalle is always right, and anyone who disagrees with him is delusional and/or irrelevant. It makes life so simple!
Would that life were that simple and I could be dictator of the world and set everyone free and spread happiness and light from corner to corner.
Unfortunately, a lot of us still believe your premises are false and/or unproven.
Ok, then tell me which ones. I'll respond to specifics with specifics.
And that despite your absurdly arrogant claims to the contrary, the things we don't know - and the things you don't know - are of course relevant. They couldn't be more relevant.
I'm sure they ARE relevant. The problem is that the things we don't know are THINGS WE DON'T KNOW. And therefore, not knowing what the hell they are, we can't very well make decisions based on them. We can try to find out as much as we can, but at some point you have to take what you do know and use that as a basis for actually doing something.
I am certainly not delusional, thanks very much for your concern. And whatever you may mean by "the people to whom you have pledged your loyalty," you are often dead wrong in your assumptions about me.
You know what they say about assumptions. But the problem is that sometimes they're all we've got. In the absence of more concrete knowledge about you I can only draw inferences from what I see you post on here. If I'm drawing the wrong ones, straighten me out. I'd love to be better informed.
But this certainly isn't just about me. You often ignore the best arguments people make against your posts, and pick out a minor bit to belittle them and declare them 'irrelevant.' And then your favorite tactic is to just say, 'You completely missed the point.' And move on to the next victim.
Hit me with a couple of examples. I can miss the point of a comment just as easily as you or anyone can. I tend to pick up on what I see as significant and also capable of being addressed. You may notice that I largely ignore Moonraven and Ruvy. I have no argument to make against their mainly faith-based perspectives so I just move on to what I can deal with rationally.
And you're the editor of this section?? You often seem more interested in stifling discussion than promoting it. Why is that?
Are people still discussing this article a week after it was written? Are you still discussing it?
I'm not interested in stifling discussion, I'm interested in provoking it, and I do a damned good job if I say so myself. Nothing would stifle discussion faster than everybody agreeing on everything. That's not even a discussion. If you can't handle disagreement and people not sharing your perspective then you ought to be on Daily Kos.
If I didn't want to hear what people of very different background had to say I'd be posting over on FreeRepublic - though I'd still have some problems with the Theocons over there.
Oh, and Dr. D - thanks for posting your defense of me 3 times. I liked it just as much every time. But I still deleted two of them.
Dave
228 - moonraven
Nonsense, Nalle.
As usual.
You have never presented any evidence for anyof your antediluvian claims.
229 - moonraven
Gonzo: How gross you are. Iwouldn't be caught dead with my beak anywhere near your puny semen.
230 - gonzo marx
well mr, not too worry, it will wash right out of your feathers...
you don't want to get hit with the spray either catch it all in yer beak, or stop using phraseology like "jerking off" and i'll let it be
get nasty and ya can't whine when someone hoses ya down
goose and gander kind of thing, so to speak
Excelsior?
231 - Clavos
Ah, gonzo, you do have yer brilliant moments, mate.
LOL.
And LOL again.
232 - Maurice
gonzo #188
I always just assumed you were from New York. The state motto is "Excelsior!".
233 - Lumpy
I remember when the contente of packages were protected by excelsior.
234 - gonzo marx
Maurice...sort of, born in Yonkers, raised on the Jersey Shore...it's just as i said, a rare moment of full disclosure
Lumpy - obviously has chosen definition #2...not surprising
Excelsior?
235 - Nancy
The stuff is as flammable as dried pine needles; hence it is no more as packing. Or it's supposed to be.
236 - moonraven
gonzo:
When you guys stop using this site to jerk off I will be happy to stop pointing out your behavior.
237 - gonzo marx
mr - when you can swallow better, you will not have to clean out your feathers so much and i will be more than happy to then stop "downloading" on you at whim
"contemplate that upon the Tree of Woe" - Thulsa Doom
Excelsior?
238 - moonraven
My feathers, like the rest of me, are ALWAYS pristine.
239 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Chris,
Tossing pearls in front of swine is a waste of time.
So, we'll just make these points:
Personal attacks are not allowed. Please read our comment policy. That appears on every single thread....
Eloquent ad hominem attacks are still personal attacks. A knife in a gilded package used to stab is still a stabbing knife.
Keep that in mind. As for the rest, tossing pearls in front of swine is a waste of time. I've wasted enough time...
240 - Dave Nalle
Well, I tried to keep it on topic, but I guess 230 comments is a good run.
Dave
241 - Dr Dreadful
Oh, and Dr. D - thanks for posting your defense of me 3 times. I liked it just as much every time. But I still deleted two of them.
You're welcome, although I didn't mean to post it that many times - I'm not that fond of you!
It's been happening for a week or two and has something to do with the IP address I was posting from... so any time you see a multitude of Dreadfuls is when you'll know I'm not commenting from home.
Just be very, very afraid if I ever post whole articles from that computer - I may just crash the whole site. If this happens, sorry in advance and I plead the Fifth.
242 - Zedd
Gonzo,
#182 was a great rebuttal. I thoroughly enjoyed it! It was kinda creepy because I probably would have said the same thing to me :o) Sounds a bit arrogant but I don't mean it that way. Its just my kind of humor or jab.
But I disagree about MR. I think she is quite clever, amazingly so actually. That is why you "testostoronized" sorts can't get enough of her. You want to dethrone her. Give it up. Not happening.
Now as for Ruvy, I enjoy him as well. I would point out that you have not made any headway yet Gonzo. However your comments do illuminate the flaws in his logic (to everyone else but him).
243 - bliffle
"ONE "terrorist" attack by ANYBODY on the U.S. means Mecca and Medina are vaporized..."
It's a wonder people still state this tactic, but I suppose they are deprived.
Easily refuted by the Agent Provacateur argument.
This is too easy.
244 - gonzo marx
deprived and depraved i may be, bliffle...
but the comment you quote out of Context was Jest of exaggeration, demonstrating Absurdity in all it's Folly
it would take quite a lot for me to ever seriously advocate use of nuclear weaponry, i wouldn't rule it out entirely...but can't easily see any justifiable circumstance, imo
Zedd - i gave up trying to "make headway" a while ago...doesn't mean i won't screed when the Mood overtakes me, just that i never even pretend anyone's Opinion is going to change
mr - you missed a few spots
Excelsior?
245 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Nancy,
It appears that Dave Nalle is editing another article of mine. Or he was and has left it sitting in pending. Editing, like legislation, is a process best compared to sausage making, and unless you like to chuck your cookies, it is best not discussed in too much detail.
You are the only person who has answered my suggestions without indicating that they themselves are totally in denial over reality.
I made an ugly suggestion for a cheap, fast policy to save YOUR butts now that your traitors for leaders are about to toss your country into its well deserved trash heap. Hundreds of millions of dollars worth of "put" orders betting on a collapse in the market - hence a collapse in your economy - expire the day before Yom Kippur. So something is definitely up.
Gonzo hauls out Principle after high flown Principle to somehow convince me that using nukes in extremis is not wise but ridiculous. And hauls out nuking Jerusalem to try to scare me. Zedd snickers along, agreeing with him. Ray Ellis thinks that I'm some kind of devious Jew trying to destroy his country. Mr. Nalle, recognizing the validity of my underlying arguments, lets the sympathies developed over years of growing up with Arabs come out: he'd nuke Tel Aviv before he would touch the shitheads in Riyadh. I won't comment on Marthe Raymond, the lady who hates guys who jerk off, or on Handyguy. Neither deserve comment.
Finally, comes Christopher Rose, whose job is to enforce a comments policy of no personal attacks. He gilds his stabbing knife and digs in with the ad hominem shit, figuring that $5 dollar words won't be recognized for the personal attacks they are....
But you actually recognize my intent and suggest an alternative - a plague.
Rashi, in interpreting Zechariah 14:12, the line that to me looks like a nuclear attack on Tel Aviv, interprets it to mean "plague", which is what the Hebrew text says. If Rashi's interpretation of Zechariah is right, and assuming that the prophecy comes true, you will have hit the jackpot. In fact, by suggesting the 1918 Spanish flu as a model, you probably are close to the plague that, if it actually does hit, will be the one that does the job: the bird flu.
And if the bird flu does indeed hit, the dead will stink in the streets all over the world. There is NO cure, and NO vaccine.
Of course, both the nuclear missiles hitting Tel Aviv and the plague could be true....
246 - Christopher Rose
Ruvy, it is not a personal attack when the statement is true. Your beliefs are thousands of years out of date, you do belong to a cult and your mass murderous suggestion is stunning in both its brutality and naivety. No attack, simply the truth.
247 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
"...your mass murderous suggestion is stunning in both its brutality and naivety."
Chris, when you get your head out of De Nial, have your wife give you a towel to dry behind your ears, and good strong soap to get rid of the stinky fish smell.... Try reading a little history about massacres, and you'll realize that what I'm talking about is not pretty, but nothing like the what the huns of history have done, and continue to do in several places around the world. Which is worse, Chris? A quick death in a nuclear fire, or the daily suffering of millions of young kids, both boys and girls, who daily suffer the lash of starvation, forced prostitution, sexual abuse, poverty and injustice in the societies they live in, whose lives are reduced to hopeless unhappiness from year after year of persecution? Those kids are innocent, too. There are things that are worse than dying in a nuclear holocaust. Suffering persecution in injustice with no hope at all is worse than dying.
"Your beliefs are thousands of years out of date,..."
First of all, who picked you to decide what is out of date or not? Second of all, reading a lot of your comments, I'm not even sure you understand what the phrase even means. Finally, you do not know the half of my beliefs that you can classify them - you probably cannot understand most of them.
"...you do belong to a cult..."
Cult, Chris? The militant atheist calling the kettle black? What cult do I belong to? I am a Jew. Are you suggesting that a Jew who believes in G-d is no better than the crazies who condemn religion as blind faith? I think not, young man.
Is Baronius, or Stan Denham, both Catholics, members of a cult, too? Is Irene Wagner a cultist? How about the Protestant pastor from Hawaii, the Bird of Paradise? What about my fellow Jews, Mark Schannon, Elvira Black, Howard Dratch, and the fellow whose screen name is "Obnoxious American?" Are they too, members of a cult.
If so, the hatred being spewn here is yours, not mine.
"Culto" in Spanish may mean religion - but in English it is a derogatory term, reserved for the fringe crazies who can recognize or tolerate no ideas other than their own. That sounds an awful lot like you, Mr. Rose.
248 - Christopher Rose
Wrong, wrong and thrice wrong.
I vsuppose it's true that a quick nuking is no worse than what the "huns of history" have done. If you're blithely oblivious to how the survivors and their allies would react, as you so curiously are whilst simultaneously holding grudges for events that happened before you were born. This is naivety.
I didn't pick your beliefs as being out of date, they simply are. Your belief system is based on some vague events of about 5,000 years ago, long before almost anything of our lives existed. Before factual knowledge about our world and the universe it sits in was known and long before the complexity of our times was formed.
It's simply not necessary to know the minutiae of your petty world view, it reeks of bitterness and hate and that's enough for me to know it's wrong.
As I've told you several times before but your bigoted and firmly closed mind refuses to even notice, let alone accept, I'm not a militant atheist. Outside the pages of BC that attract extremist cult members, religion as you perceive it simply does not exist. Of course, an ego as vast and full of self importance as yours can't accept that a few remarks rejecting the lunacy and lies you and other faithists vent forth is just that; you NEED to make me out to be an extremist in order to attempt to justify your own madness.
I am suggesting that all people who believe in the one god concept are cult members and that you all have nothing but meaningless psychobabble and rigidly inflated egos to justify your similar causes.
You characterise my view as hatred, which is entirely false. Indeed, it's nothing more than another shabby deceit by the deceived that tries to demonise those not taken in by this grandest of con tricks, this cruel deception of people's innate search for meaning in life. My words come more in sorrow than anger but don't mistake my compassion for weakness. Ultimately, the goodness in we humans will overcome this false god of yours, because in the end, the truth will out and sanity will prevail over sickness and deceit.
I don't quite follow why you bring it up as I'm writing in English but "culto" in Spanish does not mean religion, it means exactly the same as it does in English. I recognise your ideas and I tolerate them, but that doesn't mean I should treat them with respect when they are based in fiction and wishful thinking rather than culture, thought or honesty, never mind genuine loving spirituality.
You are a cult member whether you like it or not. Learning to live with it would be a brave but unlikely step forward, as you clearly shrivel and spew venom when faced with clear thinking and an open heart...
249 - Clavos
Actually, according to my Velázquez dictionary (considered to be "the preeminent authority in bilingual Spanish-English dictionaries), "culto" as an adjective has as it's first (preferred) meaning:
"1. Pure, elegant, correct...
2. Affectedly elegant.
3. Polished, enlightened, civilized."
And, as a noun:
"1. Speaking in general, respect or veneration paid to a person, as a testimony to his superior excellence and worth."
It is not until one adds such modifiers as "divino," "sagrado," or "religioso" to the noun that it begins to take on a meaning similar to that of its English counterpart.
250 - Christopher Rose
Actually, the pre-eminent authority on Spanish is the Real Academia Española, not your Velázquez.
They say
Whilst my more commonly used dictionary goes with the more commonly used English definitions.
251 - Irene Wagner
Ruvy in Jerusalem--the tale you told of the fox the temple and the rabbi was one of the most beautiful things I've read all week (next to Proverbs 16:11). Your military proposal for America was one of the most horrific, until I concluded that something similarly was likely to happen anyway, and then THAT became the most horrific thing.
People are not two-dimensional, that's for sure.
Christopher Rose, don't you think it's about time to revise the Personal Attack blurb at the top of the comment box to "Please read our Comment Policy BEFORE you make personal attack?"
252 - Clavos
"Actually, the pre-eminent authority on Spanish is the Real Academia Española, not your Velázquez."
I am, of course, well aware of the Real Academia (and probably was long before you were even alive), but in any case, it behooves you to re-read my comment (this time for comprehension), wherein you will note I did NOT say that Velázquez is "the pre-eminent authority on Spanish."
You will further note that I indicated that the definition of "culto" that coincides with the English "cult" falls, as you've indicated above from the real Academia source, as a third or even fourth definition, indicating it's not the most common use of the word. The most common usages, as I assume you know, are the first given. This is how all dictionaries are organized.
But then, you knew that, didn't you?
253 - Irene Wagner
PSALMS 16:11 not Proverbs 16:11. And a few missing commas. It's because I'm in a hurry? Got to run.
254 - Christopher Rose
Irene, no I don't. As I said, the truth isn't a personal attack, even if it is unpleasant. Please leave the comments policy to me whilst you concentrate on speaking in proverbs, psalms or tongues!
clavos, exactly how old do you think I am? The RAE also does translation dictionaries and it follows that they are also the official and therefore best source.
Actually, I didn't know that the most common usages come first but, as I said, the dictionary I use on a daily basis had the same meanings as we associate with the word in English. I assumed they were the most common.
To support my original point, that ruvy and the other one god theorists are cult members, if you put define:cult into google, the first result is "adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices".
255 - Clavos
Chris, How old do you think I am?
I believe you're in your early to mid forties, which would make you young enough (barely) to be my son.
I wasn't disputing your definition of Ruvy and other cultists (or of the word cult in English), just the primary (and most common)usage of the word in Spanish, which usually has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with culture and refinement.
256 - Christopher Rose
Wrong on both counts i'm afraid; I'm not that age and I have never heard the word culto used in any way except to do with cults during my six years here. I'm returning to England at the end of the year by the way.
257 - Clavos
Wrong on the count of your age, mayhap. But both your and my dictionaries show I was correct about culto.
So, how old are you?
258 - Dr Dreadful
Older than me, and that's all that matters!
;-D
259 - Clavos
That old, huh?
260 - Dave Nalle
I'm used to being one of the oldest folks I run into online, but I know that Clavos is older than I am. But still not old, oh my no.
And if I can add the blatantly obvious insight of someone whose Spanish is primarily adapted to giving simple instructions to tile layers and landscapers, there are substantial differences between Spanish as it is spoken in Spain and as it is spoken in Mexico. This may account for your different uses of the word 'culto'.
Dave
261 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Irene,
I looked up Psalm 16 in my Hebrew Tana"kh (my son has the English - Hebrew Artscroll volume).
My translation of line 11:
"You will (May You) inform me [of the] path of life; satisfying joy [is] Your Face (countenance); [it is a] delight [to be at] Your right side forever."
King David was very good at putting these things on parchment. I have to tell you that Hebrew is very brief in the way it expresses things. All the words in [brackets] have to be read in to the context of the few words in the text. The words in (parentheses) are alternative forms that give the text a little poetry in English.
The text of Hebrew words alone reads as follows:
"You will inform me path of life; satisfying joy Your Face; delight Your right side forever."
Learning Hebrew is mastering thinking in this style. When you are five years old, it is easy. When you are ten years old, it takes some six months to do. When you are fifty years old, it can take a lifetime.
Let's give that line from Tehilím a proper translation:
May You inform me of the path of life; satisfying joy is Your Countenance; it is delight to be at Your right side forever." [Tehilím/Psalms 16:11]
262 - bliffle
Shouldn't a "war on cultures" be fought on canvases with oils, or in symphony halls by orchestras?
Our new battle cry:
"Our Georg Solti is mightier than anybody you've got!"
And he's been dead about 15 years. But he's still collecting Grammies.
263 - Christopher Rose
Dave, it still amuses me that, having learned some Spanish, I now perceive that Texas is more properly called Tejas, which of course means tiles!
264 - Ray Ellis
Actually, Chris--in this context. The Tejas were an indigenous people who lived in what is now East Texas. Just so you know. . .
265 - Christopher Rose
And presumably made tiles with all that red earth you have down there?
Actually, Wikipedia says "The state's name derives from táyshaʔ, a word in the Caddoan language of the Hasinai, which means "friends" or "allies" ".
266 - Christopher Rose
Wikipedia also says "Texas ranks first among the 50 states as the largest emitter of greenhouse gases. The state's annual carbon dioxide emissions are nearly 1.5 trillion pounds. Texas would be the world's seventh-largest producer of greenhouse gases if it were its own country, emitting more carbon dioxide than France, the United Kingdom, or Canada."
Curiously, it doesn't say how much of that contribution comes from Dave and you chattering away! :-)
267 - Ray Ellis
Heh heh, Chris. The Tejas were part of the Caddo Nation. And yes the red earth is prevalent in East Texas, due to its volcanic prehistoric past, which, of course was only a few thousand years go.
Don't even get me started on greenhouse gases here--I live in Dallas!
268 - Irene Wagner
Ruvy, I started wanting to learn Hebrew about five years ago, but still haven't done much about it yet. I do check the Hebrew (and Greek) translations in Strong's Exhaustive concordance from time to time--it allows me to "string pearls" that I might miss otherwise!--and the Hebrew word given for "countenance" is "paw-neh'" which also has "face" given as a definition.
The KJV translator-poets came up with this for Psalms 16:11 "Thou wilt show me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures forever more." The Tehili'm translation you gave is also beautiful.
269 - Irene Wagner
[Nasty comment about Christopher Rose's deleted by author her own self.]
Please leave the comments policy to me whilst you concentrate on speaking in proverbs, psalms or tongues!...Christopher Rose
I've gone absolutely MADDDDDDD with power.
270 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Irene,
Just got back from village guard duty. Sat in silence for three hours with an M16, a clicker to open the gate, and an old solitaire game brought from the States.
One can say a great deal in Hebrew using very few words. That's the nature of the language.
In my Hebrew-English dictionary "pen" means facet or face - its plural, "paním", means face or countenance. From what I can deduce, "pen" means "one side of the face" in actuality, while "paním" means both sides.
To face someone - to turn to him - is "lifnót". Aní ponéh elékha - I turn to you, or I appeal to you - is a phrase much heard in charity appeals here. "Lifnéi" - to the face of, or in front of; "mifnéi" - from the face of, or away from.
All these are derived from the root word "pen" or "panáh".
271 - gonzo marx
so the "pen" is mightier than the...
but i digress...
Excelsior?
272 - Irene Wagner
Gonzo Marx...A+ on your religion quiz! God's pen, in Ruvy's Hebrew translation as "face" OR in its English translation as "writing implement", most certainly is mightier.
To look, unpurified, upon God's face is to die. (Luckily for us, anybody can listen for him, and after a struggle perhaps, hear.)
And his Word (the Purifier) "...is quick and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword
piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Epistle to the Hebrews)
And Ruvy, I've prayed for the peace of Jerusalem for a long time. Shalom.
To infinity and beyond!
273 - Lumpy
I've talked to god and he tells me he'd really appreciate it if you'd all stop talking like you're his appointed voices and go out and just treat other people decently.
274 - Dr Dreadful
#269:
Irene, are you the comments editor now?
What have you done with Chris? Show me where you buried the body.
275 - Maurice
gonzo #234
Motorhead? Enjoyed it although I am more of a Oscar Peterson man myself....
At any rate you made me smile....