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Politico and Yahoo Shocked to Discover the Obvious

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In a classic example of what is either near-terminal naivete or a clueless attempt to stir up outrage and make news of a non-story, Politico revealed yesterday that they had documents and comments from the Republican National Committee that suggested that they planned to use "fear tactics" in their fundraising efforts during this year's campaign. Yahoo News and other outlets quickly jumped on the bandwagon, amping up the outrage over this blatant manipulation and disrespect for potential contributors.

While stifling a series of yawns I read the articles, and I'm left wondering what desert island the authors lived on for the last 50 years. The use of irrational fear to get money or votes is not just an old tactic, it's been the standard tactic of fundraisers and campaign tacticians on both sides of the political divide since politics was invented. I know, I used to have a job where I would call old people up and tell them that if they didn't give us money the Democrats were going to take away their guns and their pensions and make them learn Spanish.

These tactics literally go back forever. The Romans convinced citizens that the Carthaginians wanted to roast their babies alive in religious rituals to stir up popular support for the Punic Wars. Edward III convinced everyone that the Jews were responsible for the plague so that he could seize their assets to pay to get the crown jewels out of hock. The Sons of Liberty convinced Americans that the Quartering Act would put British soldiers in their daughters bedrooms. Lyndon Johnson won election to the presidency with a commercial which implied that Barry Goldwater wanted to nuke our children.

Anyone who has a job as a reporter or a political columnist and has only just discovered this or thinks that anything in these RNC documents is shocking, is too ignorant and clueless to be taken seriously. It would be more shocking if a political organization like the RNC was going to decide not to use fear to motivate contributors. Fear works. Fear motivates. This is because sometimes that fear is justified and it's easy to supply evidence that people of an opposing political philosophy are up to no good.

It's also disingenuous to suggest that these "leaked" documents says anything about Republicans and the RNC which isn't equally true of Democrats and the DNC. For every cheap shot the Republicans take at Obama or Reid or Pelosi the Democrats have an equally harsh criticism for Fox News or the Tea Party movement or Glenn Beck. While the RNC is telling their constituents that Democrats are communists, the DNC is telling their supporters that Republicans are corporate lackeys. The Democrats are going to take all our money and make us work for the government. The Republicans are going to shut down the unions and ship our jobs overseas. Two sides of the same coin.

All of these claims have a kernel of truth in the middle of them, which is why they work so well. None of them is the whole truth or a realistic analysis of any issue. You can't explore issues in detail in a 5-minute fundraising phonecall or on a 4×6 color postcard. They have to keep it simple, hit a few key concerns and move on. The more powerful the fear you play on, the more money and support you get.

What's more, the press is hardly innocent. They play on fear to sell newspapers or attract viewers for their advertising. They are in the business of manufacturing and merchandising scandal and outrage by presenting stories which make people afraid, including stories which stir up fear that political parties and their organizations are lying to you and unfairly manipulating the political process. This is what media empires have been built since before William Randolph Hearst told Frederic Remington, "you furnish the pictures and I'll furnish the war."

This is the way the game is played, folks. If you find it shocking to your delicate sensibilities, then I suggest you don't play, and certainly don't pretend you're qualified to be a journalist. Politics is like making sausage and quite often the process is even uglier than the results. But please don't come back and tell me the answer is federally funded campaigns, because if you do I'm going to suggest that the RNC use that idea as the next thing to scare the old folks with.

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About Dave Nalle

  • Jose Awesome

    Is it safe to assume that this stuff has been going on all along? Yep. Do Dems use similar tactics? Most likely. Do we have physical proof that THE ACTUAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY has used crude caricatures and appeals to fear for fund raising purposes? Nope.

    And it’s because of this last one that your whole argument falls apart. You can talk and talk as much as you want, but no matter how much you try to muddy the waters, the fact remains that there now exists a document which exposes the cynicism of the GOP. Find proof that the Democratic party is doing the same things, and you’ve got yourself a point. Otherwise you’re just stinking up the room with your brainfarts.

  • Clavos

    Jose,

    If you don’t think the Democraps are doing exactly the same things the Repukes are, you’re even more naive than Dave says peeps like you are.

    Despiertate, ‘mano…

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Do we have physical proof that THE ACTUAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY has used crude caricatures and appeals to fear for fund raising purposes? Nope.

    I have proof every day, because I’m on the email lists of both MoveOn.org and change.org. Change.org engages in more fearmongering, but moveon.org associates their fear and hatemongering with fundraising more.

    Dave

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Dave –

    I would agree with you that the Republicans and the Democrats are two sides of the same coin, except…

    …except that (as I’ve shown you before) since at least the Nixon administration, more Republican legislators have been indicted for criminal acts than the Democrats in every administration since then, even when the Republicans were in the minority…and this isn’t even counting the plethora of Republican sex scandals (which you yourself have addressed) that are beyond anything you can find among the Democrats. It’s as if the Republicans stand strictly by the worldview that government is the most corrupt organization in all creation…and then they do their utmost to make it so.

    See, that’s the funny thing, Dave – either Republicans ARE generally more corrupt than the Democrats…or the Democrats as a whole are generally more adept than the Republicans at hiding their sins. It’s one or the other, Dave, and neither are very palatable.

    So the burden of PROOF is on you to show that the Democrats are just as corrupt as the Republicans – which would be done by providing proof that just as many Democratic politicians have been indicted for felonies as have Republicans.

    One last thing – the reason conservatives assume that the Democrats are as corrupt as their fellow conservatives are lay in something I learned a long time ago: a man generally assumes that someone else would do what he himself would do in the same situation.

    THAT, Dave, is why the Republicans howled to the rooftops about Democratic voter fraud (for which there is absolutely NO evidence) while they themselves DID wrongfully disenfranchise tens of thousands of voters.

  • Clavos

    Didn’t you read the article, Glenn?

    It doesn’t address corruption at all; it’s about using fear tactics for fund raising, and Dave never once uses the word “corruption” in it.

    Sheesh!

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Glenn, Clavos has a point, but to further disagree, Republicans are in fact NOT more corrupt. They are differently corrupt.

    Republicans are more personally corrupt in their behavior and in their relationships, while Democrats are more politically corrupt in the sense of letting groups and money influence their political decisions.

    As for the rest of your assertions about corruption and where it does and doesn’t exist, it’s all bungscrapings, because you have no evidence to support it.

    Plus, as Clavos points out, this article has ZERO to do with the issue of corruption.

    Dave

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Politics is like making sausage and quite often the process is even uglier than the results.

    And you would think they’d give us kielbasa instead of cocktail franks in Washington. But, then again, there’s more potatoes than meat amongst the male members of Congress.

    Instead of Federal financing, Dave, what about changing the dynamics of the Presidential elections?
    I think we should have one national Primary Day for the parties. Let each party select their repsective candidates on the same day. Then, come November, we have a general election. He/She who gets 50% +1 wins. Otherwise a run-off. Basically, I would model it after the Argentine Constitution:

    CHAPTER II – Procedure and time of the election of President and Vice-President of the Nation

    Section 94.- The President and Vice-President of the Nation shall be directly elected by the people, by second ballot, according to this Constitution. To this end, the national territory shall be a single constituency.

    Section 95.- The election shall be held within the two months previous to the
    expiration of the term of the President in office.

    Section 96.- The second ballot, when appropriate, shall be held between the two
    voting formulas of the most voted candidates, within thirty days of the previous election.

    Section 97.- If in the first ballot the most voted formula obtains more than fortyfive per cent of the affirmative votes validly cast, its members shall be proclaimed President and Vice-President of the Nation.

    Section 98.- If in the first ballot the most voted formula obtains at least forty per cent of the affirmative votes validly cast, and there is a difference of more than ten per cent regarding all the affirmative votes validly cast for the formula following in number of votes, its members shall be proclaimed President and Vice-President of the Nation.

    Election seasons would be shrunk to 8 weeks in the Fall of every fourth year – September through November. This way farmers in Iowa, Yankees in NH and Rebels in SC don’t get to call the shots for the rest of us.

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    “This way farmers in Iowa, Yankees in NH and Rebels in SC don’t get to call the shots for the rest of us.”

    Then what’s the point of living there?

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    The material in question also included what amounted to cynical characterizations of their own donors casting small donors as “reactionaries” and large donors as egotists, opportunists and/or those expecting recompense from the party should they win.

    While Dave is certainly correct that such things have long been the meat of any political effort, the cynicism and audacity of the Republicans to codify all this in print – spelling it out in garish detail – is telling of both their stupidity and arrogance. Hearing of this may well damage the tender sensibilities of their fearful constituents.

    As I see it, Reps have been licking their chops for several months now in the expectation of retaking both houses of congress come November. That certainly could happen. Most certainly, they will gain ground on the Dems as is typical for mid-term elections.

    However, it is just that stupidity and arrogance which may well render their efforts far less effective and their gains disappointingly small.

    “… a man generally assumes that someone else would do what he himself would do in the same situation.”

    Quoted for truth as some here love to say. And that is the root of Republican stupidity and arrogance.

    B

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    The material in question also included what amounted to cynical characterizations of their own donors casting small donors as “reactionaries” and large donors as egotists, opportunists and/or those expecting recompense from the party should they win.

    So, your objection would be to the naked honesty, then?

    The great irony is that the people who might be offended by these characterizations will probably never hear about them because they take in only a very limited amount of highly filtered information which is unlikely to include anything on Politico or Yahoo.

    Dave

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Dave –

    Republicans are more personally corrupt in their behavior and in their relationships, while Democrats are more politically corrupt in the sense of letting groups and money influence their political decisions.

    Prove it. That’s a blanket statement that you cannot prove, whereas I CAN prove by the numbers that Republican congressmen have been indicted for felonies more often than Democrats in EVERY administration since Nixon took office. Perhaps you missed it the time I posted it before…but with a couple hours of effort, I can post you the numbers once more.

    You know why you made the accusation about Democratic congressmen and money and influence? Because that’s what you WANT to believe…but I strongly suspect that – just like with your accusations about ACORN – your accusations are all you have.

    In fact, considering the record number of filibusters by the Republicans, considering their voting in lockstep against almost all bills put in front of them – even against bills they co-authored or co-sponsored, and even against positions they strongly supported in the past…I think I could honestly argue that it is the Republicans and NOT the Democrats who are more corrupted by money and influence.

    Why? When a group of legislators vote in lockstep again and again and again and again even against bills they’ve strongly supported in the past…then something stinks in the state of Denmark. The members of one group are afraid – literally afraid – to go against their own leadership, whereas the members of the other group aren’t afraid at all to stand for what they believe in.

    Wishing the other side was as corrupt as your own won’t make it so, Dave.

  • zingzing

    always fun to see the other side crawl under “did you expect anything else?”

    come on, dave. whip it out. let’s see some of your condemnations of the republican party.

    please.

    not that i don’t think you’re right in a lot of ways, but shit… this is pretty blatant shit coming right at you from your own party. they’re telling you that you’re a manipulated, ego-driven, fearful bit of shit that they can fuck all night.

    if the dems do this, they’re at least subtle(r) about it. don’t just let them fuck you while telling all about how hard they’re fucking you. it’s pathetic.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Let’s see if I have this straight, Dave. You passed a kidney stone and underwent pain from it in Texas while yowling at Republican conventions there. Then you came back here, noticed that Politico had published a non-story about the use of fear to stimulate donations, which Yahoo! News jumped all over and blew into a farty balloon.

    Now along comes history prof Dave Nalle with his pointy liddle needle to pop the farty balloon and we all get to smell the stink.

    A non-commentary about a non-story, both of which stink from fart (or swamp) gas from the rotting swamps of Stinkemup, Texas, just down the road from Roaches in Nagadoches, along the Rio Pequeno.

    Now we have this non-commentary on a non-story graced with the comments from fools who can’t stay away from a party fight, no matter how much it makes them stink from fart gas.

    It’s enough to make me blow it all out of my rear end. You’ll excuse me while nature calls….

  • zingzing

    ruvy, you just made the longest fart joke that should ever be allowed anywhere, even if it is dissipated on the net. i’m sure you meant it to be that way, but i DON’T KNOW WHY.

    seriously. do you think dave (or you) would dismiss this story if it came from the dnc?

    no. and don’t even act like you would.

    if you try, all we’ll hear is a squeal from your tight, bullshit, fucked up assholes. ugly things. i’ve looked at them, you assholes, and i’m ready to tell you.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Intestinal relief!!! Ahhhh!!! It feels sooo goood!

    Oh, you were commenting, zing?

    I don’t know about Dave, but having survived the excessive fart gas of the politically correct cows of the Democratic Farmer-Labor Party of Minnesota for quite a number of years, I’m rather glad not to pay attention to most of this garbage.

    As I said, this is a non-commentary about a non-story. You do have trouble reading, don’t you?

    As for staring at assholes (and sniffing them), if it turns your crank, go right ahead. But after relieving myself, I pulled up my pants and washed my hands. So, you’ll just have to look (and sniff) elsewhere….

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    You both deserve each other.

  • zingzing

    meh. if you don’t want to admit to getting raped, go ahead. it just means it will happen again.

    this isn’t a non-story. it’s truth shoved in your eyes and yet you still don’t want to see it.

    it’s not a story that this goes on, for sure. but to have it so blatantly, and on powerpoint, thrust in your face… oh the humility, oh the shame.

    please stop acting like this means nothing. it’s like watching an old dog licking its own poop.

    i don’t have trouble reading, but i do have trouble figuring out why you feel you, as a syndicalist, agree that fucking over people is the way to go. trick them with fear and feed their ego? what appeals?

  • zingzing

    roger, you’re right… but i think we both like it this way. i think ruvy’s an idiot. so he does i, comma, somewhere. such is life. i’ll win one day, i’m sure.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    i don’t have trouble reading, but i do have trouble figuring out why you feel you, as a syndicalist, agree that fucking over people is the way to go. trick them with fear and feed their ego? what appeals?

    I believe in syndicalism – but I am not so stupid that I cannot see what works as a motivator for people donating money to political causes that generally do not deserve them. You can bury your head in the sand, zing – or sniff at anuses – it matters little to me. But I’m used to staring ugly realities in the face. One of those ugly realities is that fear is a powerful motivator for getting people to do things. I generally do not waste my time whining about what should be – like you do. I spend my time on what is.

    The only decent thing about this comment thread is that is hasn’t been hijacked (yet) for yet another useless discussion of “health care reform” in the United States. I have other things that concern me.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    come on, dave. whip it out. let’s see some of your condemnations of the republican party.

    I’ll give you the standard response on this, Zing. Go through my list of articles back to when Bush was in power and the Republicans controlled the Congress. You’ll find plenty of criticism there.

    not that i don’t think you’re right in a lot of ways, but shit… this is pretty blatant shit coming right at you from your own party. they’re telling you that you’re a manipulated, ego-driven, fearful bit of shit that they can fuck all night.

    You seem to have missed the part of the article where I pointed out that I used to be on the other side of this, working in fundraising. And as I also pointed out in the article, the groups they are exploiting don’t include the politically informed element of their constituency. Overwhelmingly they play on the fears of the elderly and the ignorant, neither of which class I fall into (yet).

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Prove it. That’s a blanket statement that you cannot prove, whereas I CAN prove by the numbers that Republican congressmen have been indicted for felonies more often than Democrats in EVERY administration since Nixon took office. Perhaps you missed it the time I posted it before…but with a couple hours of effort, I can post you the numbers once more.

    We’ve gone over this before. If you go below the federal level the balance of corruption tilts overwhelmingly to the Democrats. Illinois alone has had over 100 Democrat office holders indicted in the last decade. And if you compare south and north the difference becomes even more striking.

    You know why you made the accusation about Democratic congressmen and money and influence? Because that’s what you WANT to believe…but I strongly suspect that – just like with your accusations about ACORN – your accusations are all you have.

    Because it’s true. Look at Chris Dodd and his countrywide deal. Look at Charles Rangel. Look at William Jefferson. In the last 5 years the two major Republican scandals have been about sexual misconduct (Craig and Foley) while the Democrat scandals have been about money. That was my point. Republicans have problems in their personal lives. Democrats have problems with money. And it’s not just about indictments. The many unindicted influence peddlers on the left are the real problem.

    In fact, considering the record number of filibusters by the Republicans,

    What filibusters? All we’ve had are threats of filibusters and discussions of filibusters. By my count there has been one actuall filibuster since Obama took office, but I may have missed a minor one.

    considering their voting in lockstep against almost all bills put in front of them – even against bills they co-authored or co-sponsored, and even against positions they strongly supported in the past…I think I could honestly argue that it is the Republicans and NOT the Democrats who are more corrupted by money and influence.

    They are listening to the people, Glenn. I don’t have a problem with that. It’s better than Obama looking for ways to impose health care against the will of the people.

    Why? When a group of legislators vote in lockstep again and again and again and again even against bills they’ve strongly supported in the past…then something stinks in the state of Denmark. The members of one group are afraid – literally afraid – to go against their own leadership, whereas the members of the other group aren’t afraid at all to stand for what they believe in.

    No, Glenn. We’ve made it very clear we will vote them out of office if they cooperate. The leadership is too weak to control them. It’s the grassroots which scare them, and should.

    Wishing the other side was as corrupt as your own won’t make it so, Dave.

    And again, this article isn’t about corruption.

    Dave

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Ruvy,

    I’ve got a bridge for sale, I’m trying to raise money for America, want to buy it?

    The only decent thing about this comment thread is that is hasn’t been hijacked (yet) for yet another useless discussion of “health care reform” in the United States.

    That’s because I haven’t read the article yet, and it sounds as though you haven’t either.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Dave,

    I will read it tonight, it looks like an interesting article. :)

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Health Care Reform is the will of the people! I just couldn’t resist, bye. :)

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Jeannie,

    it sounds as though you haven’t either.

    I read a lot faster than you do (no dyslexia to slow me down) and I remember what I read a hell of a lot better than most people do. And I don’t get anywhere near as upset as you do reading things.

    But I do have a healthy streak of sarcastic nastiness always at the ready – kind of like a light sabre.

    When you read this article, you’ll see the truth of what I say about it. Like Dave, I’ve worked as a political fundraiser, though probably not at the level he has. So, I know that fear is used frequently by all sides of the political debate to motivate financial contributions and other kinds of support. Heck, Jeannie, read your own articles and comments. You use fear also. So do I.

    So Dave’s article is a non-commentary on what he pointed out as a non-story. Except as a vehicle for us to toss about nasty comments, it need not exist.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    “The great irony is that the people who might be offended by these characterizations will probably never hear about them because they take in only a very limited amount of highly filtered information which is unlikely to include anything on Politico or Yahoo”

    It’s true that a great # of the Republican constituency are an essentially illiterate, under-informed, uninquisitive bunch who just take in unquestioningly the pablum the Reps feed them. However, in this instance – and Dave would know this if he were more aware – that this story hit the air waves well beyond the limits of Politico and Yahoo news. I first heard of it on CNN, then on NPR. But then it made it to NBC, CBS and ABC. Frankly, I don’t know if FOX News had the guts to air it, but, at least some of the great unwashed Republican nation of babble sucking folks will have heard something about it.

    I’m told some conservatives read (I’m skeptical,) and it did hit a # of the morning papers.

    While in the end this will likely be no more than a blip on the political screen, it will act as another strike atop the wedge that the clueless Rep leadership is hammering between itself and electoral success in November.

    The Republicans play a one note samba, and still, they can’t manage to even perform that in tune. Tone deaf to the end.

    Yes, and I agree with Jeannie. The Reps continually pound away at the notion that the American people don’t want health hare reform which is absolutely untrue. Support for the current Senate/House bills has been shaken largely owing again to Republican fear tactics and unabashed lies, but the fact remains that the majority of Americans DO want health care reform. If anyone had been paying attention, many of the exit polls in Massachusetts during Brown’s victory revealed that many of those who voted for him were not AGAINST health care reform, but rather were against reform without at least the public option. To claim that Americans don’t want health care reform is a myth and a lie.

    B

  • Mark

    Following Baritone’s observation, the memo was probably left to be ‘discovered’ on purpose. The images and caricatures got great exposure.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Exposed to the extent that Dems are exploiting it to their advantage in their various campaign material.

    B

  • Clavos

    It’s true that a great # of the Republican constituency are an essentially illiterate, under-informed, uninquisitive bunch who just take in unquestioningly the pablum the Reps feed them.

    What a load of utter horseshit.

    Surprised at you, Baritone…

    This, from a member of the party that counts among its supporters the entire semi-literate, dole-dependent underclass.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Wonder who might that be.

    Deep-South niggers and Appalachian white trash? Or, I forgot about the illiterate Latinos, illegal immigrants from across the boarder, and the old Asians.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Dave –

    We’ve gone over this before. If you go below the federal level the balance of corruption tilts overwhelmingly to the Democrats. Illinois alone has had over 100 Democrat office holders indicted in the last decade. And if you compare south and north the difference becomes even more striking.

    Ah…so when the Democrats rise to the FEDERAL level, all of a sudden they’re either less corrupt or they’re more adept than the Republicans at hiding their sins? But I’d really, really like it if you’d provide a link to the list of “100 Democrat[IC] office holders” indicted in Illinois in the last decade…because I’ve searched and found no such list so far.

    Because it’s true. Look at Chris Dodd and his countrywide deal. Look at Charles Rangel. Look at William Jefferson. In the last 5 years the two major Republican scandals have been about sexual misconduct (Craig and Foley) while the Democrat scandals have been about money. That was my point. Republicans have problems in their personal lives. Democrats have problems with money. And it’s not just about indictments. The many unindicted influence peddlers on the left are the real problem.

    Really? Only TWO major Republican scandals in the past five years? Did we forget about “Duke” Cunningham? Or Jack Abramoff? Or Bob Ney (associated with Abramoff)? Or Rick Renzi? Or Ted Stevens? Or Thomas Noe? Here’s a fairly comprehensive list of Republican politicians (and aides) indicted since 1998.

    And I’d really like to see where you got that bit about 100 Illinois Democrats indicted in the past decade. I really would. Prove me wrong – I’ll be grateful.

    What filibusters? All we’ve had are threats of filibusters and discussions of filibusters. By my count there has been one actuall filibuster since Obama took office, but I may have missed a minor one.

    (1) Don’t change the subject. I pointed out how Republicans are filibustering bills they helped craft and sponsor…and you’re ignoring it, and (2) I strongly suspect that you know very well that these are PROCEDURAL filibusters, that there are two different kinds of filibusters. See, if you could deny that there were filibusters at all, you wouldn’t have to address the question, now would you?

    And it seems the Senate disagrees with you on whether filibusters have been held…and the degree to which they’ve been held. But I’ll let them know that since you say they haven’t been holding filibusters, that they must be wrong.

    They are listening to the people, Glenn. I don’t have a problem with that. It’s better than Obama looking for ways to impose health care against the will of the people.

    Funny thing about the ‘imposition of health care’…it seems that while the polls are against the bill itself, when the people are polled on the specifics of the bill (ban on denial of care for various reasons, removal of the HMOs’ trust exemption, etc.), the people are very strongly FOR those specifics.

    AND the polls show that if the bill included a public option, all of a sudden the people are very strongly FOR approval! But we Dems will take the hit for there being no public option – I think we dropped the ball on that one. From a Washington Post article last November:

    “As in previous polls, a majority supports a government-sponsored heath insurance plan to compete with private insurers, although the percentage supporting the general idea has slipped slightly over the past month to 53 percent. Support for the scheme jumps to 72 percent when the public plan is limited to those who lack access to coverage through an employer or the Medicare or Medicaid systems.”

    No, Glenn. We’ve made it very clear we will vote them out of office if they cooperate. The leadership is too weak to control them. It’s the grassroots which scare them, and should.

    No, Dave – the Republican leadership (and the conservative pundits like Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.) made it very clear that they would personally ensure that any Republican who didn’t toe the line would not be reelected because the leadership and the pundits would use every tool at hand to turn the Republican base against said recalcitrant Republican. And you know this.

    And as for ‘grassroots’…please.

    You know about the oh-so-grassroots FreedomWorks. You know about Dick Armey and the Big-Oil Koch family that bankrolls FreedomWorks, too.

  • Baronius

    Did anyone view the Powerpoint presentation? It was boring, and not the least bit controversial. The most interesting thing about it is that the Republicans are getting more money from their smaller donors, but waste a whole presentation on how to appeal to the larger donors. I think there was one line in it about internet fundraising.

    And seriously, Ruvy, that analogy was incomprehensible.

  • Boeke

    Dave says:

    “While the RNC is telling their constituents that Democrats are communists, the DNC is telling their supporters that Republicans are corporate lackeys.”

    So, Dave equates corporations to communism!?

    Does this mean that Dave thinks corporations are as threatening and fearful as communism?

    What a turnaround!

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Ruvy –

    (1) Try not to brag on yourself (e.g. your statement that you read ‘better’ than others) – it leads to underestimating those you oppose.

    (2) Yes, we CAN afford socialized medicine – the rest of the first-world democracies are doing so for half the amount we’re already paying per capita. Every excuse the conservatives throw out to ‘prove’ that we can’t do it…are simply that: excuses. Not reasons, but excuses.

  • zingzing

    dave: “And as I also pointed out in the article, the groups they are exploiting don’t include the politically informed element of their constituency.”

    said like a sucker.

    ruvy: that dyslexia comment was just mean. also, i clearly pointed out that it was expected that republicans did this, so you obviously do have some trouble comprehending things. i also am clearly having a laugh at republicans. even their own party thinks they are fools. maybe in that, we can agree on something… but i know we’ll find a way not to.

    clavos: “This, from a member of the party that counts among its supporters the entire semi-literate, dole-dependent underclass.”

    damn, man. that looks pretty bad.

  • zingzing

    dave, as you pointed out in the article, it’s other people that the rnc is exploiting, but you’re too savvy and smart for that. surrrre, you are. you know when you’re getting exploited. right. but what happens when they flat out tell you that you’re being exploited? nuthin. they’re not exploiting “you.” “you” means someone else, right?

    and why are they trying to protect michael steele so much? one would think he’d make a convenient scapegoat, but now it just looks like whole sections of the rnc are this corrupt and manipulative. yet the response so far has been “save michael.” it’s strange.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Dave,

    Was the omission of man-made global warming as a bogey man intentional because it’s too obvious to mention, because both parties pay lip service to it or for some reason? It certainly is a political issue.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Baritone says, It’s true that a great # of the Republican constituency are an essentially illiterate, under-informed, uninquisitive bunch who just take in unquestioningly the pablum the Reps feed them.

    Should it be understood from this that literacy tests for voters might now be a good idea?

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Dave,

    That little post card didn’t really cause any outrage because we have had, Carl Rove, around for a long time.

    When you look at it, all journalism is yellow; it just depends on what you want to hear and who is saying it.

    The center of this argument is that the Republicans will continue to play on peoples’ fear, and the Democrats will continue to play on peoples’ hope.

    Obama is the best that we have had for the social progression of this country, and
    the only way to restore balance is to tip the scales back in the direction of the masses.

    Furthermore, it doesn’t matter, you will oppose anything. So now, simple majority, will be used and this country will move forward with or without all of you.

    Remember, when the automobile was first introduced, people didn’t even have to have drivers licences let alone carry insurance.

    We will save you money in the long run, and that is really all you are worried about, isn’t it?

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Should it be understood from this that literacy tests for voters might now be a good idea?

    Will they be served a cup of tea with the test?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    On the other hand, literacy might not be a big deal.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Dan(Miller),

    Detroit school board chief Otis Mathis admits his grammar problem.

    It’s what you say isn’t it? Shouldn’t content and reading comprehension out way writing?

    Some people will never write well and others can’t count, that’s why we all need each other. :)

    Look at the way the English language is slaughtered here, especially by me.

    Personally, I blame cell phones and texting.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Amazing.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Oh here he is, Mr. one word now.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Roger,

    Are you making a statement to the air?

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Bye, Amazing.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    No, Jeannie. I was commenting on Dan Miller’s link. It is amazing.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    That was my point. Republicans have problems in their personal lives. Democrats have problems with money.

    I disagree, Dave. Democrats have plenty of personal problems. It’s just that they are better at covering up their tracks. Rep. Massa is a classic example of Dems with “personal” problems. Unfortunately the problem includes the word “homo” and we all know that if you’re gay in America you might as well be convicted and sent to Guantanamo. For all the proclamations from the Left on “tolerance” they are the worst at practicing what they preach.

    And it’s not just about indictments. The many unindicted influence peddlers on the left are the real problem.

    I TOTALLY agree. There are far too many influence peddlers on the Left who get away with it because the Left and their merry band of lawyers have written the regulations or lack thereof.

    Yes, and I agree with Jeannie. The Reps continually pound away at the notion that the American people don’t want health hare reform which is absolutely untrue. Support for the current Senate/House bills has been shaken largely owing again to Republican fear tactics and unabashed lies, but the fact remains that the majority of Americans DO want health care reform.

    Agreed. And failure to deliver on comprehensive health care reform before November will prove to be a problem for ALL incumbents – not just along party lines.

    Deep-South niggers and Appalachian white trash? Or, I forgot about the illiterate Latinos, illegal immigrants from across the boarder, and the old Asians.

    Well, Roger, you’ve just identified the groups who will survive in the event of a war on our soil or a natural disaster of Judeo-Christian proportions. Those who live through adversity daily are really the ones who will survive that which is about to occur in this land.

    According to Scripture Jesus said “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.” To understand what it means, one must refer to the word “meek” and its’ meaning during the time of Christ. Meek meant to be tamed or submissive. Therefore, those disenfranchised segments of society which you identify, Roger, are the “meek” of our time and, as such, they shall inherit the Earth because the spoiled little white people and the spoiled upper classes will be impotent once the power goes out and the shelves are empty at their local grocery store.

    You all want what you cannot afford, and your dumbass shitgrinning “president” from Kenya hasn’t got the balls or the brains to tell you that you are flat broke.

    Actually, Ruvy, Barack Obama DOES have the brains to realize that regardless of what he attempts to accomplish all will be thwarted not by Republicans or Democrats but by the mega-corporations which control the entire process. We need anti-trust regulatory reinstatement. And, we need to start handing out the death penalty to people like Bernie Madoff.

    Yes, we CAN afford socialized medicine – the rest of the first-world democracies are doing so for half the amount we’re already paying per capita. Every excuse the conservatives throw out to ‘prove’ that we can’t do it…are simply that: excuses. Not reasons, but excuses.

    Yes we CAN! What America needs is not a redistribution of the wealth but a redistribution of the assets allocated to special interests and their political agents. Suck the special interest money out of Washington and you have a robust economy.

    and why are they trying to protect michael steele so much? one would think he’d make a convenient scapegoat, but now it just looks like whole sections of the rnc are this corrupt and manipulative. yet the response so far has been “save michael.” it’s strange.

    Why? Because he’s the token black guy who pimps himself out daily. He’s the “minority” in a sea of white foaming at the mouth ignorant sharks. He doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the GOP, Maryland or this nation. He’s in it for the money, plain and simple. He’s the ultimate political whore.

    Was the omission of man-made global warming as a bogey man intentional because it’s too obvious to mention, because both parties pay lip service to it or for some reason? It certainly is a political issue.

    Yes, it is a political issue. The Right uses this winter as an example of how there is no such thing with Limbaugh, Hannity and Steele leading the way. Those on the Left stand to make a lot of money out of making the effects of global warming far worse than they actually are. To me, the entire issue is simple. We have a moral obligation to leave behind a cleaner, energy efficient world for the next generations. It’s not even about global warming with me — it’s about respect for humanity.

    Should it be understood from this that literacy tests for voters might now be a good idea?

    Or we can do what they did in Rhode Island for years. There they had the “master lever” with a picture of a star over the Democrat column and an eagle over the republican. Then an illiterate voter just had to walk in, pull the master lever” and all the votes went to that one party. All the stupid voter had to do was pull the lever above the picture of a star. Ingenious.

    Obama is the best that we have had for the social progression of this country, and
    the only way to restore balance is to tip the scales back in the direction of the masses.

    No, Jeannie, WE the people are the best chance we have of achieving progress. The politicians in power today are agents of special interests and, as such, must be removed fro office regardless of political affiliation. We need to take back our government from the local level straight through to Washington.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Baritone,

    [Yes, and I agree with Jeannie! The Reps continually pound away at the notion that the American people don’t want health care reform which is absolutely untrue. Support for the current Senate/House bills has been shaken largely owing again to Republican fear tactics and unabashed lies, but the fact remains that the majority of Americans DO want health care reform. If anyone had been paying attention, many of the exit polls in Massachusetts during Brown’s victory revealed that many of those who voted for him were not AGAINST health care reform, but rather were against reform without at least the public option. To claim that Americans don’t want health care reform is a myth and a lie. finally the voice of reason has returned.

    Thanks Baritone, I restyled it just a little. I guess you could say that I am a yellow journalist…

    :)

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Boldness! Can you fix it?

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Silas,

    Obama, and we the people are one and the same. Why can’t you see this? Are you blind?

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    I think that this bold text is really beautiful!

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Roger, had no right to write #30 and I wish that I could erase it. It shows a real lack of class, doesn’t it?

  • Ted

    Why do you pretend that you are shocked that Politico and Yahoo are pretending to be shocked? Talk about disengenuous. ALWAYS the partisan.

  • Ted

    Yah, Roger that was pretty disgusting. And what was your point?

    1) What does the deep south have to do with it?

    2) Since when do white trash vote dem?

    3) Since when do illegals vote?

  • zingzing

    jeannie, #30 is obviously supposed to be reflective of the opposite of roger’s feelings. it’s a rhetorical device called sarcasm. it’s certainly not the classy way to put it, but being that that’s the point… it’s effective.

  • Ted

    oh…sarcasm.

    i am stupid.

    it’s a fraught word you used.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Zing,

    Don’t make excuses for this, OK? It’s not OK, this is a public forum.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Who’s working tonight? Can they remove that word and this bold?

  • zingzing

    heh. then this is the perfect place to lampoon the type of attitude that roger is obviously referring to. what’s he going to do, say it to his sock drawer? it’s utterly impotent in any context other than a public forum.

    it’s perfectly ok. in fact, it’s needed. when people say “we need to talk about racism in order for us to make any real progress,” what do you want them to do? be gentile? or be honest?

    if you can’t see roger’s obvious intentions, then i think you ought not to pass judgment.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    I’m not passing judgment, I just hate the use of that word.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Your right of course.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    I need to go take a pill, a chill pill, my back really hurts. later Zing

  • zingzing

    if you just plain don’t like the word being used under any circumstances, that’s fine… it’s an understandable thing. but i don’t think that censoring it is the answer. in fact, that’s probably the worst thing you can do. it’s like hiding the problem or hiding from it. i would bet that roger hates the word as much as you do.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Obama, and we the people are one and the same. Why can’t you see this? Are you blind?

    If my refusing to consider Obama and “the people” one and the same I am not blind — I’m a realist. He’s been tainted by Washington.

    1) What does the deep south have to do with it?

    It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Since LBJ, Washington has pandered to the Deep South.

    2) Since when do white trash vote dem?

    Since Abe Lincoln freed the slaves. Democrats did not come in to power in the South on a big scale until LBJ.

    3) Since when do illegals vote?

    You are kidding, right? If illegals didn’t vote, Nixon would have been President in 1961. “Illegals” are not only immigrants, my friend, they’re dead people on the voting rolls.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    It’s true that a great # of the Republican constituency are an essentially illiterate, under-informed, uninquisitive bunch who just take in unquestioningly the pablum the Reps feed them.

    This is not what I said and nothing like the truth. The truth is that the target group for much of this fundraising is retirees who have limited interest in the specifics of news or current events. They don’t represent most Republicans, they are just easy to raise money from.

    The Reps continually pound away at the notion that the American people don’t want health hare reform which is absolutely untrue.

    As usual, you aren’t listening, despite the fact that Republicans are making this point very clear. It’s not that the people don’t want healthcare, it’s that they don’t want THIS healthcare bill, and with very good reason. If the Democrats can work with the Republicans to put forward a sensible proposal without all the hidden costs and draconian compliance measures then the people and the GOP would support it.

    Dave

  • Arch Conservative

    If my refusing to consider Obama and “the people” one and the same I am not blind — I’m a realist. He’s been tainted by Washington.

    He was tainted by Chicago long before he was tainted by Washington.

    “Hope and change?”

    Hello…..Mccfly!”

    Anyone that voted for him deserves a swift kick in the pants. Come to think of it so doesn’t everyone that voted for McCrazy.

    It gets so very tiring watching the back and forth…Dem this….GOP that……..

    Why not just spend your time debating who would win in a fight…superman or the incredible hulk……….

    A very bad man once said a very true thing………

    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think….”

  • Clavos

    Back to Dan(Miller)’s #41:

    I can’t believe that everyine just let that slide by, with no discussion.

    The f***ing President of the Detroit School Board is illiterate!!

    How the hell did he ever get that job?? What idiot allowed that to happen???

    No wonder the government schools suck so badly!

    What a disgrace!

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    “As usual, you aren’t listening…”

    I’m both listening AND hearing – quite clearly. You, on the other hand listen only to the voices that you care to hear.

    The majority of people DO want this health care bill to pass. Certainly, it is flawed, but it is far better than nothing which is what will happen if this bill fails.

    It is so disingenuous for you and others to even suggest that “starting over” with a clean sheet of paper would get us to anything that would ever be voted upon.

    Republicans have never shown any interest in any kind of health care reform. They are very comfortable with the way things are.
    If this initiative fails, it is likely that no president nor any congress will have the stomach to run this gamut again. The entire issue is politically toxic. That Obama has bet his presidency on the success of this effort speaks volumes regarding his determination to see it to fruition.

    You all choose to see it as arrogance or stupidity, or both. I see it as a brave effort to get health care reform accomplished despite the political consequences.

    Congressional Republicans are shitheads.

    B

  • Clavos

    “Congressional [members] are shitheads.” There, fixed it for ya, B-tone.

    So are the Senate members, the administration, the USPS, and everybody who gets paid with our taxes.

    and for good measure, those paid with our state taxes, too…

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “And seriously, Ruvy, that analogy was incomprehensible.”

    which one? He seems relatively tame here

  • zingzing

    whoever made that mistake thought ruvy was talking analogously. he was talking literally. of course, he’s a birther, which is just another word for “_______” (insert dildo here).

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Ted,

    You are stupid! And it’s not personal attack, mind you, since you yourself have said it.

  • zingzing

    oh, roger… sarcasm is hard to detect, especially if you don’t realize what it’s referring to. unless he’s being sarcastic (it’s hard to tell), i think he’s got it.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Thank you, zing, for restoring sanity to this conversation.

    Clavos spoke of the illiteracy of the American underclass, all those who are on the dole and support the Democrats. My only intention was to call him out – who exactly are the illiterate and the dumb:

    the niggers, the white trash or the illegals or Latinos?

    Apparently, my request for further specification turned out to be pretty effective, if for no other reason that Clavos has not come up, since, with an answer.

    But thanks to the politically-correct people, such as Jeannie, who happen to think that certain words are strictly verboten, regardless of context, the irresponsible statements (such as by Clavos) are given a free pass.

    And if that’s not a case of cutting one’s nose to spite one’s face, I don’t know what is.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    You may be right, zing.

    I may have misread Ted’s comment.

    I’m done for today. Tomorrow.

  • zingzing

    roger, i think you and i both know that clavos wasn’t trying to be an ignorant prick. it just looked that way at first glance. :) har.

    i’ve known clavos long enough to take his shit with a grain of salt. it’s still just salty shit, but it’s not what you think it is.

    his comment, far as i can tell, wasn’t meant to be racist or classist in any way. but it was stupid in the fact that he assumes a democrat must be on welfare. obviously, that’s not true (and i’m not even sure that he really supposes that shit). it’s stupid, and he obviously doesn’t have any idea, or doesn’t want to admit, who his enemy is, which, as you know, is a, comma, whatever, sentence structure, foolish way to look at your enemy. if he really wants to figure out how to beat the dems, he needs to be able to identify them, but, you know, identifying enemies is pretty difficult for republicans, as they make them all over the place, and they make them not only on national boundaries, but ideological boundaries, which makes it more difficult to distinguish true enemies from people who just want to live and shit. or something.

    basic point is republicans suck at life. because they’re dicks. and white males who are over 50. and what really sucks, is that both you and i will be (hopefully) white males over 50 who are dicks. fight against yourself! fight!

  • Arch Conservative

    This post should come with an advisory warning readers to strap on their waders, or else their shoes will full up with BS by the time they reach the other side.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Dave, et al,

    We will pass this, immediately bring down costs, insure millions left out and then work toward a public option.

    As usual, you aren’t listening, despite the fact that Republicans are making this point very clear. It’s not that the people don’t want healthcare, it’s that they don’t want THIS healthcare bill.

    Dave you are wrong , considering that the right to vote amended two years after the Civil Rights Bill was passed.

    You don’t want to hear or see anything you don’t like, too bad, you are going to hear this until your ears and eyes bleed.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Zing,

    I’m listening to- Mother mallards Portable Masterpieces Co, Oleo Strut, on: Like A Duck To Water. Ever listen to this?

    I entered La Monte Young’s name in Pandora, but I haven’t heard him yet. (this is a good style , you can think with it.)

    Thanks for speaking up last night, yes you are right, I will not tolerate racial slurs; they can call me whatever their little minds can conjure up, but I will not sit back and watch anyone refer to an entire race of people with that one word.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Roger,

    I thought that you were more intelligent than this. These word games, as far as I am concerned, are over, and I have had my fill of your bouncing back between the Ivory tower and the lower regions.

    I will complain, very loudly, if this continues.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Silas,
    If my refusing to consider Obama and “the people” one and the same I am not blind — I’m a realist. He’s been tainted by Washington.

    Oh bull! He is the reason we aren’t all standing in bread lines right now, although, many are thanks to the last thirty years of blind greed and stupidity. Blind, to think the wealthy would trickle money into the economy if we just let them not pay Tax, big mistake. Stupid, that we removed all of the stops and protections from rampant greed.
    Bring back the, Sherman anti-trust laws.

  • Clavos

    he assumes a democrat must be on welfare.

    Actually, you have that exactly backwards, zing.

    My assumption (and I challenge you to prove me wrong) is that those on welfare (or otherwise part of the underclass) vote democrat, never Republican.

    Like the vast majority of voters, they vote their pocketbooks.

    he needs to be able to identify them, but, you know, identifying enemies is pretty difficult for republicans…

    For the umpteenth time, I am not a Republican.

  • Clavos

    Oh, and Roger, it was you who attached racist labels to the term “underclass;” I was referring to an economic class.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Clavos,

    What’s this, fake out-rage?

    can’t believe that everyine just let that slide by, with no discussion.
    The President of the Detroit School Board is illiterate!!

    everyine? Are you illiterate too, or just human like the rest of us?

    Actually, we should do away with the school boards and allow the educators to do what they do best, educate without these leeches hanging out around fancy boardrooms over-seeing on high. Wouldn’t you agree?

    I do want to ad here in defense of Mr. Mathes, he overcame his disability, he is no longer considered illiterate.

    You really ought to work on tolerance, I believe this is a real issue for you. This advice comes from a woman that will not tolerate certain words, but that is a noble intolerance.

  • Clavos

    I will complain, very loudly, if this continues.

    You already are — continuously.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Not true,My assumption (and I challenge you to prove me wrong) is that those on welfare (or otherwise part of the underclass) vote democrat, never Republican.

    Many people stick to the party their parents where registered to, and years ago, many poor voted Republican in this country. Check your facts and don’t use such a broad brush.

    The sad truth here, Clavos, is that many people in this country don’t vote at all, especially those that have been disenfranchised by poverty and the justice system. You can’t even vote if you have a felony against you.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Good, your listening.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    And stop cherry picking, try to debate some substance.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Go ahead, jump on ad verses add. I don’t claim literary perfection, that’s why I need you, Clavos the editor. :)

  • zingzing

    clavos: “My assumption (and I challenge you to prove me wrong) is that those on welfare (or otherwise part of the underclass) vote democrat, never Republican.”

    dude. if you think that’s even possibly true, you have never been to america.

    “For the umpteenth time, I am not a Republican.”

    brutus.

  • Clavos

    You can’t even vote if you have a felony against you.

    And that’s good.

  • Clavos

    if you think that’s even possibly true, you have never been to america.

    So, prove me wrong –“dude.”

  • Clavos

    I am reminded of my gardener in San Antonio, who, speaking of a wealthy, Republican, Mexican-American car dealer in that city, once said to me, “Any Hispanic who votes Republican is stupid — he is voting against his own self interest.”

  • Clavos

    Actually, we should do away with the school boards and allow the educators to do what they do best, educate without these leeches hanging out around fancy boardrooms over-seeing on high. Wouldn’t you agree?

    And who would you have running the schools? Surely not the teachers, that’s letting the fox guard the chickens, and is in fact, because so many school administrators ARE former teachers, a major reason why the American government schools are so inferior to the European and Asian schools.

  • zingzing

    you want me to prove to you that a person either on welfare or part of the underclass has voted republican? come on, clavos… it’s just not possible that you think that that’s not true.

    Here’s the exit poll data from the 2004 election:

    Under $15,000 (8%)
    Bush 36%
    Kerry 63%

    $15-30,000 (15%)
    Bush 42%
    Kerry 57%

    looks like there are plenty… i’m not sure how you thought that would work out.

  • Clavos

    You really ought to work on tolerance, I believe this is a real issue for you.

    I know, Jeannie, and I’m working on it, but try as I might, I really can’t stand you gringos running the country.

  • Clavos

    Those are the working poor, zing, not the “dole-dependent” underclass to which I referred.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Clavos,

    Since you ran right over the meat of that comment, I figured that I’d show it to you again.

    [Many people stick to the party their parents where registered to, and years ago, many poor voted Republican in this country. Check your facts and don’t use such a broad brush.

    The sad truth here, Clavos, is that many people in this country don’t vote at all, especially those that have been disenfranchised by poverty and the justice system.]-me

  • Clavos

    years ago, many poor voted Republican in this country

    As you say, years ago.

    Since then, they’ve found out that if they vote for dems, they get ever greater entitlements.

    The sad truth here, Clavos, is that many people in this country don’t vote at all…

    A good thing, in most cases. If they don’t care enough to vote, they’re not going to vote intelligently.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Then why don’t you run for a position in this government, and change it?
    Didn’t you come here seeking a better life? Why the hell do you want to throw it all away?

    Clavos, you have so many wonderful qualities, you are one of the reasons I remain here, can’t you see this?
    Why do you insist on shining a light on your negatives?

    :) I’m not leaving you alone, I like you as a person and an editor.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    The Vote is, our voice, and like it or not, we all need to use that voice. But not too many comas.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    The Republicans/Conservatives/Libertarians, with the help of many smear campaigns have tried to convince us that you have to be a rocket scientist in-order to vote. Funny, I don’t see a lot of rocket scientists working at the polls. So this is just not true, is it?

  • zingzing

    clavos: “Those are the working poor, zing, not the “dole-dependent” underclass to which I referred.”

    every single one of them? under $15k? (that’s not “working poor,” that’s complete poverty, and the underclass. if you meant to say “dole-dependent underclass,” why did you separate those on welfare and those “otherwise a part of the underclass?”)

    look, i’ll admit that a large portion of those on welfare vote dem. but i wouldn’t go around making ridiculous statements like those on welfare NEVER vote republican. it’s just not possible, or true.

    i can guarantee that there are those on welfare that vote republican. and i can guarantee that there those “otherwise a part of the underclass,” be they black, white, hispanic or otherwise, that vote republican.

    maybe i’m missing your point, but the blanket statement that you made is just obviously false.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Well, I got to run now, so I’ll give you all a break from me. Bye :)

  • Clavos

    every single one of them? under $15k? (that’s not “working poor,” that’s complete poverty

    I have an acquaintance whose only job is school bus driver. His annual income is $10K. He works, and he’s poor. He’s “working poor,” and there are millions like him.

    Most of ‘em vote dem.

  • zingzing

    good god, clavos. what do you think i’m arguing?

    are you really going to say that those on welfare or part of the underclass NEVER vote republican?

    come on. that’s just dumb.

  • zingzing

    on the other side of your bus driver, i have an aunt who works at walmart, making very little. she votes republican. her brother hasn’t worked in years, and when he did, it was at a box factory. he votes republican.

  • Clavos

    There are plenty of stupid people in the world, zing.

    If you had a $10K income, would you vote rep?

  • zingzing

    no, but i also wouldn’t say that there isn’t someone out there who would.

    so, are there “plenty of stupid people” out there, or do those on welfare never vote republican?

  • zingzing

    and did you just call my family members “stupid” for voting republican?

    i’m not sure whether or not i disagree, but i still don’t like it.

  • Clavos

    Yeah, I suppose I did, zing…

  • zingzing

    that’s not cool. i’d say they’re confused. they’re nice people, however. my aunt is one of the most selfless people i know. she’s given up her own life to take care of my grandma since sometime in the early 90s. feel bad, clavos. feel very bad.

  • Clavos

    OK, zing, you’ve convinced me that there are, after all, no small number of patriotic poor Americans who put patriotism and principle above their own self-interest and vote Republican.

    The rest are Democrats.

    Snap!

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    zing #77, clavos #84

    Of course I knew Clavos wasn’t trying to be an ignorant whatever; still he did painted a picture of those on the dole – the underclass – as being ignorant.

    All I’ve done is to provide a possible breakdown: who exactly are these people.
    (The racial undertones were provided by me.)

    I’m still awaiting the answer.

  • zingzing

    putting principle above self-interest is against republican principle, isn’t it?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Clever. What that meant as a trap?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Further to Clav’s # 68 — There hasn’t been much discussion of anything else either, and most of the comments have revolved around personal irritations. This is by no means unique to BlogCritics and may be a cultural phenomenon. It is nevertheless unpleasant and diminishes the site.

    As to the illiterate school board president, he is illiterate because he seems unable to express thoughts clearly. Many errors in syntax and spelling can be overlooked if the thought intended to be conveyed is clear. However, it is impossible to express an unclear thought clearly. That appears to be a serious problem for him and also for those whom he is employed to guide in educating children.

    His problem is unfortunate for him personally. However, that is not an adequate reason for him to hold his post. A surgeon whose hands shake uncontrollably or who has an infectious disease has an unfortunate personal problem as well. However, he should not spread his misfortune to others by performing surgery.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    This indeed is an outrage.

    And PC is the only reason why everyone shies from this topic like from a hot potato.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    BTW, thanks for the link in #118.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Which raises another interesting question. If not syntax or semantics, then what are the criteria of clear thinking?

    I hope the article linked to above will provide us with a clue. Shall see.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Great article, Dan.

    I used to think that personal communication by email and electronic media has certain advantages, namely, that one can think something through before saying things outright. And perhaps that’s still the case in regard to personal communications – i.e., with the people you know.

    But this isn’t exactly the case with sites such as BC, is it? Is it perhaps because we still regard one another as strangers, and therefore don’t feel we ought to be bound by certain standards?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    We will pass this, immediately bring down costs, insure millions left out and then work toward a public option.

    And then we’ll all grow fairy wings and live in cloud palaces eating moonberries and drinking nectar!

    Dave you are wrong , considering that the right to vote amended two years after the Civil Rights Bill was passed.

    Which has zero to do with this.

    You don’t want to hear or see anything you don’t like, too bad, you are going to hear this until your ears and eyes bleed.

    We already passed that point. The only thing I want to hear is that the Democrats abandon their course of imposing this disaster on the American people and consider passing a sensible, coherent and effective health care plan instead.

    Dave

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I have a different take, Dave. Passing this bill, imperfect as it is, will not be the end of the world.

    I think they ought to pass it through the reconciliation process and put their political lives on the line.

    Only then will we really know where the public stands on the damn issue.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Roger, re #121 — I don’t think you will find the answer about clear thinking there.

    For examples of clear thinking, I would cite Bertrand Russell and Douglas Adams. I disagree with Russell more than I agree with him on many political/social issues, but at least I was able to understand his meanings. Understanding and agreement are, of course, not the same. Russell’s sentences were rarely excessively complex, and his popular writings dealt with matters any reasonably competent high school graduate (of whom there seem to be decreasing numbers) could understand. Douglas Adams managed to insert some great humor even into his serious writings, such as Last Chance to See. Some of his thoughts may have been disagreeable but at least I had no difficulty understanding what he meant.

    Stephen Hawking wrote (and I suppose still writes) with the great clarity one might expect of someone at the cutting edge of mathematical physics. Unfortunately, I lack the backgrounds in mathematics and physics to make much sense of what he says no matter how clearly expressed. I read A Brief History of Time more than twice, and got hopelessly lost after the historical bits about Newton. That is a different problem altogether.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Dave, re # 123, you say,

    The only thing I want to hear is that the Democrats abandon their course of imposing this disaster on the American people and consider passing a sensible, coherent and effective health care plan instead.

    Lots of luck.

    You also say, in a marginally different context,

    And then we’ll all grow fairy wings and live in cloud palaces eating moonberries and drinking nectar!

    That’s the best argument I have heard thus far for passing the current ObamaCare legislation which, of course, has yet to be written. The cloud palaces and nectar quaffing sound great and so even do the fairy wings. The moonberries might be OK too; can they be used to make decent wine?

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    For scientific writing, try Roger Fyenman.

    I suppose clear thinking is more like art rather than science; one has to be groomed into it. Still, ignorance of basic syntax and grammar cannot be conducive to clarity of thought.

    I just found it interesting that you didn’t necessarily connect the illiteracy of our man from Detroit to poor grammatical structure. This idea seems to be on the right track.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Try not to brag on yourself (e.g. your statement that you read ‘better’ than others) – it leads to underestimating those you oppose.

    ruvy: that dyslexia comment was just mean.

    Dyslexia slows people down when it comes to reading. And anyone who knows what dyslexia is knows why. I remember watching Nelson Rockefeller as a kid. He had a great “common man” stump speech style – but when he had to read a statement, he was slow, painfully slow. He suffered from dyslexia, something I found out while reading. So, I wasn’t being mean, I was being honest. And I do have a good memory for what I read. That is not bragging – that is a statement of fact.

    I never said that I read “better” than Jeannie. That would be mean and unkind – and likely untrue.

    Glenn, take your own advice, and pay attention to what your criticize. And you, zing, stop wasting time on a non-story. See if you can figure out how your country is going to pay for the health insurance boondoggle it is about to pass – especially around 2017, when oodles and oodles of baby boomers will start to file for Social Security.

    Consider it a public administration assignment.

  • zingzing

    i just think it’s fun to watch the republicans peeing all over their voters, and those voters lapping it up. funny, funny stuff.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Which puts the real question to test:

    Who is ignorant here, those who vote their pocketbook or those who vote against their own interests?

  • zingzing

    besides, ruvy, i haven’t been “wasting my time on a non-story” (if that’s what you want to call it) since yesterday. #36 was the last time i really mentioned the spit on the face of all republicans. but if you want to bring it up again, a smart republican would demand more of his party. every time someone says “this is meaningless” or “we knew it all along” or any of that junk, it just makes them look like the lapdogs they are. good doggies.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    The commentary about the 100 indicted Illinois Democrats captured my attention yesterday. So I did some digging, too. It’s not a hundred, but it might as well be. And then I read this morning that the former Democrat Mayor of Birmingham, AL was sentenced on a corruption conviction. Immediately I thought of Dave’s commentary.

    Then it dawned on me. Sure the Democrats seem to rack up the points on the indictment column. Why is that? Trust for Republicans remains quite low. And the GOP has had its share of scandals.

    What’s the deal? So, here’s my hypothesis. The Democrat Party is the party of attorneys. They legislate, promulgate that which they want you to think and accumulate vast sums of cash in the process. Republicans, on the other hand, drive the economy. They’re business people and (gasp!) medical professionals. They pay off the politicians; merge companies to create the “too big to fail” monoliths; and are “conservative”.

    The only thing that differentiates the two organizations is the rhetoric. Neither side believes what they’re really saying. It’s all about creating public perception. American politics is replacing religion as the opiate of the masses. The Republicans know this — so they chose Christ as their leader. The Democrats are well aware of it and they will create any smokescreen they can to divert the public from the simple truth. They’re all in one giant orgy of power and finance within the Beltway. Lobbyists play both sides of the aisle like Arthur Fiedler conducted the Boston Pops. And the rest of us poor slobs gather the crumbs scattered in our direction.

    We long for the sensibility of Libertarians. We grieve for not having the conscience of Greens. We REQUIRE the passion of Constitutionalists. We even have room for the positive aspects of Socialists and the common good philosophy of Communists.

    By creating a political system overrun with opposing parties, we create a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Force lobbyists into the position of having to scatter their crumbs among a dozen factions and their buying power is significantly impacted.

    So, look at it this way. Lobbyists have a LOT of buying power like Wal-Mart. They are so gargantuan that they can force members of Congress into submission by freezing out the market. Members of Congress are the exclusive Wal-Mart vendors. They’re sucked into and dependent upon Lobbyists (Wal-Mart) to feed their financial addiction.

    Folks, like it or not, the last President who came close to telling us the truth about ourselves was Jimmy Carter. We didn’t’ like what he told us, so we put Ronald Reagan into office to complete the job Richard M. Nixon began. For those of you who won’t take the time to watch that speech, here’s some food for thought:
    In a nation that was proud of hard work, strong families, close-knit communities, and our faith in God, too many of us now tend to worship self-indulgence and consumption. Human identity is no longer defined by what one does, but by what one owns. But we’ve discovered that owning things and consuming things does not satisfy our longing for meaning. We’ve learned that piling up material goods cannot fill the emptiness of lives which have no confidence or purpose.

    What’s changed, folks? It seems to me that President Carter was John on the Island of Patmos. He was revealing the last days and we chose not to heed the warning.

    Further in his speech, the President revealed that which remains true today:
    What you see too often in Washington and elsewhere around the country is a system of government that seems incapable of action. You see a Congress twisted and pulled in every direction by hundreds of well financed and powerful special interests. You see every extreme position defended to the last vote, almost to the last breath by one unyielding group or another. You often see a balanced and a fair approach that demands sacrifice, a little sacrifice from everyone, abandoned like an orphan without support and without friends.

    In all of the technological advances these last 30 years, what has really changed? We’re still gluttonous consumers. We remain saddled with debt and we do not have universal health care. We’re a sorry bunch here in these United States. We have to make sacrifices and we know it. We just refuse to “submit” because in doing so we are perceived as weak.

    Jon Gosselin has become a metaphor for our society today. We’re a stubby lot with nothing to drive into the womb of the economy. We’re artificially inseminated by the cheap cost of goods manufactured outside our land because we don’t have the equipment to manufacture that which we require by ourselves. We just take, take, take and in our inadequacies we use wealth as a substitute for that which is most important.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Silas,

    Very insightful. I’ve long felt the Carter was unfairly made a scapegoat, no more than the butt of jokes. Yet, he was in his way the most straight forward and honest president we’ve had in many a year. His was certainly not a great presidency, but he was and is a greater man than most will acknowledge.

    Your observations would have made a pretty good article on their own.

    B

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Silas,

    Carter was the country we would’ve had, and the business sector knew it; he answered questions directly and made bold decisive decisions regarding energy, consumption, and terrorism. Therefore, they shamed him with the hostage situation in Iran in order to make him appear weak. if you look at who followed you see it all.

    I did agree with your idea to introduce more than two choices of politics to this country because it was the answer; remember?

    Funny, the shelves in our stores are overflowing with too many choices of every product imaginable; ironically, Washington has been effectively reduced to two that are almost one.

    You don’t want to hear this, yet I’ll tell you anyway, I see glimpses of Carter in Obama; the way he answers questions directly, the way he invites all to have a voice, and his audacity to fight for us. We desperately need social programs for those that they disenfranchised in this country for the last thirty years.

    I like an elected official who will say what they think without first looking for their handlers’ approval.

    B is right, you should submit your comment as an article, and it has enough substance to stand-alone.

    :)see ya

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Silas,

    I hope you see my comment as a compliment, that’s what I was trying to do! :)have a great day!

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    All the talk of Obama being a typical “Chicago politician” is crap. It has no meaning. It is no more than guilt by association with absolutely no substance.

    Anyone who attempts to foster significant change is usually vilified from all sides. Certainly, Obama has shown some naivete’ in how he has approached his agenda, but that doesn’t diminish his vision. He has had difficulty in learning the ropes, as it were, inside the beltway, but there are signs that he is getting his feet under him. I believe that he will become more determined and consequently more effective.

    The obstinance of the Reps is such naked partisanism. During much of the past year, they have done virtually nothing in the service of their country. Many Democrats are just as guilty. Obama is of another ilk altogether. His detractors will continue to hate him and dismiss anything and everything he says or does. This hate transcends race. It goes to the very core of our humanity. Obama reveals in us the paucity of our humaneness. The response from those who can’t stand the light of this revelation lash out at its source.

    Let’s hope the light is not extinguished before we can all see.

    B

  • Clavos

    The adulation of the Obamaniacs is truly impressive.

    Christ would be envious…

  • zingzing

    so… in mel gibson’s version of “the passion of the obama,” would the republicans be the jews?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    A heck of an observation, zing.

    Whatever the sins of Obama, the Reps are surely playing the part.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Baritone,

    This was a great comment! Maybe some people could actually read the words typed here, instead of preparing their counterpoints whilst comprehending what has been just been said to them…

    :) I’ll catch all of you some people later.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I happen to agree, Baritone.

    In fact, I’m beginning to detect a significant change in the man. It’s about time to say fuck it to all the naysayers and proceed with his vision. Imperfect as the healthcare plan is, at least it’s a start.

    So let the Dems put their political lives on the line and pass the damn things true.

    Let’s finish the kitchen.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Yes. I have drunk the Kool-Aid and it is good. When young, before our cynicism took us, Kool-Aid was simple good. :)

    B

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Why do the Republicans vilify Obama so much? Why are they so dead-set against cooperation with the Democrats…even after we’ve reached out to them and included their ideas in our legislation when we didn’t have to?

    There’s actually more to the issue than mere cynicism and pre-election posturing. There’s a deeper reason why it’s not so much the Democrats’ agenda, but the very idea of working with the Democrats towards a common goal is repugnant to the Republicans.

    Let me repeat that – the very idea of working with the Democrats, of mutual respect, of walking hand-in-hand towards a common goal and a better future – really is repugnant, disgusting to many (and perhaps most) conservatives.

    I address that deeper reason in my pending article. Most of the BC pundits (particularly the conservatives) will reject the article and its arguments out of hand. But the liberals among us will readily understand and probably agree with my arguments.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Let me guess, Glenn.

    It’s a matter of preserving their identity. The two-party system would crumble if the conservatives were to embrace some of the Democrats’ ideas.

    It’s a do or die for them.

  • Clavos

    It couldn’t simply be that conservatives just disagree with liberal ideas?

    Nah, liberal hubris will not admit that possibility.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Let’s see now. To disagree, it’s necessary for there to be ideas they could call their own. But they’re awfully scanty in that department.

    So yes, on second thought I think I’ll stick with my thesis.

    Dinosaurs, too, once fought for their survival until they became extinct.

    Same difference here.

  • zingzing

    clavos: “It couldn’t simply be that conservatives just disagree with liberal ideas?”

    well, yes, that’s exactly what it is. it would, however, be helpful if conservatives actually had ideas to counter with instead of just saying that they disagree.

    “Nah, liberal hubris will not admit that possibility.”

    i just did, for one. so that’s not true. of course, they don’t seem to know what a liberal is… hint #1: not socialists. hint #2: secretly plotting on murdering the sun, not grandma. hint #3: if you’re going to replace your penis with your gun, but you won’t give up your gun, we might try to take your penis. “take the fun, not the gun,” we always say. hint #4: ever known a liberal kitchen to run out of vinegar? do you know why that is?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Don’t talk prematurely, zing.

    We’re about to enter a period of conservative revival, judging by a number of cases which are before SCOTUS now.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    But of course, it all revolves around the same old and archaic notion of rabid individualism, fuck the society and everybody else for that matter.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Alright! Let’s all raise our glasses! Free Kool-Aid for all!

    :)I’m not making an ass out of myself here for nothing if even Roger’s on board, am I?

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Glenn,

    Did you watch, Bill Moyers Journal, this morning? His show is on my thread and it was very enlightening to listen to, Wendell Potter, a former executive from CIGNA and now an outspoken critic of the industry speak.

    It is possible for some people to change their minds about why we need to pass this bill and then bring in the public option.

    If we wait until it’s perfect, then we will never see reform!

    Just kidding about the Kool-Aid, that was my satire. :)

  • Clavos

    Actually, zing and Roger, conservatives (and even we libertarians) DO have ideas to counter the liberal ideas about governance, they are just anathema to your way of thinking, so you dismiss them out of hand, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

    And no, I’m not going to repeat them yet again; Dave and others, me included, have stated them repeatedly on these threads, and better known conservatives and libertarians publish them constantly in the MSM and elsewhere.

    If you don’t accept them, fine, but ideas there are — aplenty.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    We know what they are: limited government and rabid individualism – fuck everybody else.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Clavos,

    What are these ideas? HUH? I never see them, yet I’m told that they exist, sort of like urban legends, I suppose.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    And no, I’m not going to repeat them yet again.

    Oh, I see the answer now, never mind.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Thanks, Jeannie. I appreciate the kudos. Insofar as traces of Carter in Obama, I agree. The difference? Obama isn’t willing to spend his political capital in the courageous way Carter did. I’m not a huge fan of James Earl Carter; however, I will forever sing his praises as being the last President who dared speak the truth to us. I worked for Ronald Reagan. I was one of those who feverishly worked to get him elected . I have admitted the error of may ways many times over. Hindsight is, after all, 20/20.

    Even Conservatives hesitate to admit that Carter’s malaise speech was more Conservative than Progressive. Reagan’s brand of conservatism was an illusion manufactured by media savvy whores. Carter’s approach was more consistent with Goldwater.

    so… in mel gibson’s version of “the passion of the obama,” would the republicans be the jews?

    Nope. Dick Cheney as Caiphas and Eric Cantor as Pontius Pilate. Harry Reid as Simon Peter. Republicans would play the Pharisees and Lobbyists the Centurions.

    And Barney Frank as The Beaver.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Where the heck has Cindy been? I miss her.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    There you go.

    A play in three acts.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Silas,

    Thanks, Jeannie. I appreciate the kudos. Insofar as traces of Carter in Obama, I agree. The difference? Obama isn’t willing to spend his political capital in the courageous way Carter did.

    Oh yes he is! I decided to believe in the better good for all even if all don’t believe.

    I am now soo positive that I make myself sick, never mind all of you! :)

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Roger,

    Please, You have to stop being soo mad at me. I really am a very nice person, you just don’t know it.:)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Jeannie is right, Silas.

    He is pushing through the healthcare reform and does put his political life on the line.

    (His closing comment of the healthcare summit.)

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    I remain skeptical yet hopeful. And to be honest, Barack Obama also missed a great opportunity at the summit. Like it or not, Ted Kennedy’s shadow remains a pall over the proceedings. If I had been President, I would have laid it out on the line like this:

    March 17 will be the first St. Patrick’s Day without Ted Kennedy in Congress. Let’s make it the First day of Health Care Reform as law.

    There would have been no more fitting tribute to the Kennedy Legacy than to sign that bill into law on St. Patrick’s Day. Theatrical? Yes. Sentimental? Yep. Would America have broken into tears? You betcha.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I doubt the last part of your statement.
    Only your half of America, yes.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Now, Roger. Half of America would be crying out of sentimentality whilst the other half cries for the “scourge of socialism”. It’s a win-win media sensation. I’m looking at this from a complete marketing point of view. This would have been a publicist’s dream. Fox News and MSNBC ratings would have been astounding.

    See, I’m thinking like the mega-capitalist. Capitalism is dead, Roger. It’s been replaced by “megalism” which is an oligarchy within the social framework which gives the illusion to the peasants that they have free will and real political power. It’s smoke and mirrors. Take tonight, for example. The wee folk are gathered around their televisions, all immersed in the glitz and glamour of Hollywood. They’ll be seduced by the rented jewelry, loaned out designer gowns, leased limousines, etc. And those oh-so-sentimental moments in celebrity events just tug at the hearts of the fantasy world the wee folk have manufactured for themselves. The celebs will even weave little references to health care in their appearances just to appeal to their fan base.

    Ironically a good percentage of those same pillars of the entertainment community received a pay check from Rupert Murdoch or Sumner Redstone. Gee, doesn’t Ruppie and Sumner own FOX and Viacom respectively? Talk about Kool Aid.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Share your sentiment about the Oscars.

    Aren’t we great at distracting the public with glamor and pizzazz of the disappearing America?

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    We need more people like Barney Frank in Washington; you can’t buy that man for any price.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Oscar who?

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Even when our damned politicians appear on camera, it’s with props in the background, i.e. the flags behind Pelosi. All we see, all we read, all we absorb — it’s prefabricated, sanitized bullshit. It’s the new religion. No wonder Scientology has taken off (temporarily).

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Roger,

    I’m really disappointed in you…I’ve tried several times to talk and I get run right over. Yet, if someone does address me directly then your right there with your two cents.
    I gave you a taste of your own medicine last night and that didn’t sink in. Today I tried to break through the ice…I give up again. I’m just like a Democrat, no matter how many times I get kicked in the teeth, I come back trying to win.

    :|Bye, you are not ruining my mood tonight.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Silas,

    What do you want them to look like? should they look like they just rolled out of bed? Would this make them look better, if they still had sleep in their eyes? Their cloths a mess? What?

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    This is the visual age.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    opps! Italics, sorry!

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    This is all Roger’s fault!

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Roger, I’ll be back after you think about what I just said to you. It might be awhile, bye. :(

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    On no you didn’t, Jeannie! We need more people like Barney Frank in Washington; you can’t buy that man for any price.

    AFLAC PAC, 05/14/2009
    2500.00

    AIRCRAFT OWNERS AND PILOTS ASSOCIATION POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE, 06/04/2009
    1000.00

    ALLIANZ OF AMERICA CORPORATION/FIREMAN’S FUND POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE, 06/24/2009
    1000.00

    ALLSTATE INSURANCE COMPANY PAC, 06/08/2009
    1000.00

    AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF CLINICAL UROLOGISTS – AMERICAN UROLOGICAL ASSOCIATION PAC (UROPAC), 11/03/2009
    1000.00

    That’s just the beginning of the A’s. As long as there’s a mechanism to exact a toll, the politician will accept it. That’s fact.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    What do you want them to look like? should they look like they just rolled out of bed? Would this make them look better, if they still had sleep in their eyes? Their cloths a mess? What?

    I just want the wee folk to understand that this is fantasy.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/realist Realist

    The one thing that I have yet to see or hear about is that the DNC thinks as little of their people as the RNC clearly does theirs. Led by the DLC, they probably do, but they aren’t so careless as to leave such damaging data lying about where any unionized janitor can pick it up.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    What the hell is #175? I leave for a few minutes and see what happens? Silas goes nuts!

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    And….who are the wee folk? Me?

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Barney Frank is a saint!

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    And the realist hates union people. I’m totally out-numbered here, aren’t I?

    You know, I’ve always wondered what happened to Combs, and now I think I know…

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Well, Silas, what pol at any level doesn’t receive cash from any # of sources? Do you imagine that anyone in Congress doesn’t have a similar list? Being that it costs millions – even for a House seat – to get elected. It ain’t a great system, but it is for the time being what we’re stuck with.

    When it comes down to it – the sums you mention above are rather piddling, don’t you think?

    BTW – I agree with Jeannie regarding Obama. He has pretty much laid his presidency on the line for health care. A lot of people think he’s wrong to do so, and it may cost him his 2nd term.

    What’s up with the italics?
    B

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Never disputed that point, B. I just wanted to show Jeannie that no politician in Washington today is free of tainted money.

    Insofar as unions, Jeannie, I was a paying member of Laborers International. I’ve been on both sides of the aisle. And unions, like our government, are populated with political hacks in an official capacity who would sell their mother’s souls to get that extra vote. Whether it is public or private office — the election process is so not on a level playing field. There’s a need for organized labor in a free society. And as members of either or both there is a responsibility on the membership/constituency to be engaged if such a system is to continue.

    The italics began on #169 and are now deceased upon arrival at comments page #5.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Well, the money isn’t necessarily “tainted.”

    B

  • Clavos

    Well, the money isn’t necessarily “tainted.”

    Once it’s transferred to the hands of a pol it is…

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Can’t disagree.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Praise the Lord. We have a consensus. Perhaps we should serve in the Senate.

  • Clavos

    We’d probably get more done than the present denizens do…

  • Clavos

    And more amicably, too…

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Well, Silas. You are the moderator.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Gee, thanks.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Let’s see if we can’t salvage something from this mess of two hundred comments on a non-story. Maybe if we view it all as an “open topic call-in show”, we might get some value.

    Silas Kain, as usual, is the fellow to watch here. A self-described “Reagan Democrat”, he has obviously been re-thinking how he views Ronald Reagan.

    And in the process, he culled ONE OF TWO decent things that Carter did as president: the other thing he did right was attempting to subsidize alternative fuels.

    Carter was a loser all around. Inflating the American currency did nobody in the States any good, and led directly to the disastrous Reagan era – when the United States became a debtor nation. His failure to support the aging American installed dictator in Iran led directly to the Islamic Republic – and the mess we all face with a nuclear Iran. And Carter has never acknowledged his direct responsibility for that. The “peace” treaty he shoved down Israel’s throat led directly to the Oslo self-destruct mechanism. He is not satisfied with that and wants to see us dead, altogether, peddling the Arab “apartheid” bullshit line shamelessly, lying like the nastiest plantation owner about how his slaves are happy under the bullwhip.

    So, generally, Carter was a shit president. If Obama seems like Carter, he too, is a shit president – for you, that is. He is carting Carter’s shit policies all over again, and if you Americans are stupid to buy his garbage as your economy collapses all around you, you are fools indeed.

    And now I’m off to write an article on why it is time for us in Israel – indeed past time – to tell your government to go to hell.

    See ya!

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    “Let’s see if we can’t salvage something from this mess of two hundred comments on a non-story.”

    You mean you’re going to be constructive for a change – as exemplified by the remainder of your comment?

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    “Once it’s transferred to the hands of a pol it is…”

    That really makes no sense. How else do you suggest that we actually have elected officials?

    B

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    And now I’m off to write an article on why it is time for us in Israel – indeed past time – to tell your government to go to hell.

    As unsurprising as Joel Hirschhorn writing an article on the necessity of an Article V convention.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    “Let’s see if we can’t salvage something from this mess of two hundred comments on a non-story.”

    Why don’t you all go salvage something out of my non-story thread, it’s cold over there…

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    “Let’s see if we can’t salvage something from this mess of two hundred comments on a non-story.”

    You don’t need to write an article, Ruvy,
    I hear your voice in my sleep now.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    And now I’m off to write an article on why it is time for us in Israel – indeed past time – to tell your government to go to hell.

    Nite , Ruvy, I’m too tired to argue.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    But? Um? I thought? Didn’t we need an Article V Convention? Or is this country so well managed and happy that there’s no necessity for preserving or restoring our Constitution?

  • Ruvy

    Article in pending, folks!

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Ruvy,

    Good! I can’t wait to read it!

    :)This is a brand new day, and I try to let the water run down the stream away from me.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Silas,

    We are the government and I will always want an Article V Convention.

    The day I read Joel Hirschhorn’s article it was like a bright light was shinning out from his text. I thought to myself and even said out loud, “That’s it!”

    Let me repeat what I have said for the last thirty years to anyone who would listen to me, “We are only as free as our government is strong!”

    We have to stay vigilant and call them to task, just as you and everyone here are doing right now. We elected us to go to Washington and represent us.

    There are people that realized a long time ago, that if the people can be distracted away from watching them, then the power can be shifted from the many to the few, and they are doing everything possible to keep us distracted, aren’t they?

    Silas, please continue to fight for your country. I can’t wait for your next call in show and I’m definitely calling you.

    :)Please answer the phone!

  • little tomato birdy

    Found this article today while browsing The Valley Advocate, March 18, 2010:
    Headlined “Spliced and Diced: The Sequel to the ACORN videos story shows how easy it is to fool Congress and the public.”
    By Stephanie Kraft
    “What the video didn’t show, though the transcript does, was that Keefe had told the worker that Giles was trapped in a relationship with an abusive violent pimp and that he was trying to rescue her.
    News reports showed a part of a tape in which an ACORN worker in Brooklyn suggested that Giles hide her money in a tin can; the implication was the the woman was advising Giles on how to evade taxes. What the worker actually said was that putting the money in the can would keep the pimp from getting it ‘if he wants to come and rip up the place.’ ”

  • David

    Both sides have done pretty reprehensible attack ads. I read the comments that they couldn’t find a democrat attack like this. Please. do you remember the byrd ads? These were about a black man who was killed in texas (dragged behind a pickup truck, in fact). We had ads showing a pickup with chains trailing behind and Byrd’s children saying every time she heard George Bush it was like having her daddy tortured again. The money solicitation went, “If you don’t want black men dragged behind pickup trucks in chains, you had better support the democratic party.”

    the adds and fundraisers stated bluntly that George Bush was, in favor of this treatment of blacks all based on bush’s being against a “hate speech” law. Note: the people associated with this heinous act got either life or the death sentence. As george bush once said, “do we exhume the graves to hang them twice?” So, yes, the democrats do some nasty attack ads, too.