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Pace Makes Gay Remark, Causes Outrage

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Homosexuality is immoral, according to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, in an interview with the Chicago Union Tribune. "Saying that gays should serve openly in the military to me, says that we by policy would be condoning what I believe is immoral activity,” says Gen. Peter Pace.

This of course has kicked off a shitstorm, with gay/lesbian rights groups across the country demanding that Pace apologize. "General Pace's comments are outrageous, insensitive and disrespectful to the 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in our armed forces," says the Service Members Legal Defense Network, a gay rights group.

Now let me state up front – I’ve got no problems with homosexuality. I’m in the military, and I’ve got zero worries with gays openly serving in the military, hell, I welcome them. Lord knows, we could use a few more good men and women willing to answer the call to arms. What I do have a problem with, is someone being castigated for their personal views.

Pace stated up front that the views expressed were his and not military policy. Since when was it a crime in this country to have a view different from yours and yours and mine? Last time I checked, differences of opinions were what made this country great and kept the our democratic debate alive, fostering change.

If we’re to run around trying to shout down those who disagree with us – early critics of the war, those who believe in global warming and a myriad other highly charged issues – we run the risk of our national policy, individual views and very freedom of speech being handcuffed by a small, but very vocal, contingency of special interest groups, both on the right and left. I think pro-lifers are generally a bunch of egotistical nimrods (how dare you assume to act as God in His judgment), but I sure as hell wouldn’t want to silence their voice on the abortion debate, and I sure as hell am not going to apologize for my view.

The mark of a good leader isn’t inherently what his or her personal beliefs are, it’s how well they implement the laws of the land by which they are governed. I think smoking pot should be legal. In fact, I think the fact that pot is illegal is criminal but fact is, it’s illegal – I don’t smoke pot.

Don’t ask, don’t tell is a policy still in effect in the military, and until such time as it’s done away with, that's it. As the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Pace’s views may or may not have influence on how the policy is addressed but even Pace, who holds in my opinion a very dumb view of homosexuality, will eventually be unable to reverse the tide of public opinion.

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About Mr. B

  • Rev Justin Spears

    Ben:

    This issue is not that Gen Pace doesn’t have the right to hold a personal opinion, but that he, in his official position, presented it as THE OFFICIAL opinion of the US Government. Why is this unacceptable? Because I am the employer of the US Givernment, and of Gen Pace, and I dislike that opinion, therefore it is far from “official”.

    Sure the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” is law but it is a highly stupid one, and one that must be removed as soon as possible.

    With surveys indicating that there are 65000 Gays/Lesbians/Bisexuals in the military, it is clear that there is a need to remove this law. One must remember that 65000 are only those brave enough to affirm their sexuality to a survey, a very risky move under DADT!

    Rev Justin Spears

  • Benjamin Cossel

    What part of “Saying that gays should serve openly in the military to me, says that we by policy would be condoning what I believe is immoral activity.” is citing Official Policy? The only official policy stated was that Don’t ask don’t tell is the official policy.

    I agree completely it’s an assinine view, but it is still the law of the land and we most certianly expect, in fact demand, that our leaders uphold that law. No where does Pace say the official view of the US is that homosexual behaviour is immoral, he completely states it as his view.

    Now, in my opinion, those who are now calling for him to apologize are just doing damage to their own cause because, in many an eye, they now look like a bunch of thin skinned sissy’s who can’t handle a contrary viewpoint. Wouldn’t it have much better for the SLDN to say something more to the affect that Pace is entitled to his opinion just like we are entitled to believe that General Pace is a narrow minded dunderhead.

  • JustOneMan

    Rev…

    To quote you…
    “Because I am the employer of the US Givernment, and of Gen Pace, and I dislike that opinion, therefore it is far from “official”.

    If they let people vote on this issue…guess what? The overwhelming majority agree with the Generals personal views!

    So based upon your logic…you are shit out of luck?

    By the way are you related to Rev. Billy Saul Harkus? You sure sound like him!

    JOM

  • zingzing

    “The overwhelming majority agree with the Generals personal views!”

    sure bout that?

  • Benjamin Cossel

    From a December 2006 Zogby poll on Homosexuality in the military

    “Of those agreeing with their inclusion, certain demographic groups represented
    higher than average support. Among those were Independents, African-Americans,
    Women, those aged 25-34, and Women. These subgroups were largely more supportive
    of gays and lesbians in every question, with Democrats and Hispanics also frequently
    representing more open views toward gays in the military.
    Within military subgroups, veterans and those having served less than 4 years
    were also more likely to support the idea of inclusion within the military, while Active
    Duty Personnel, Officers, and those having served 15 or more years were less likely to
    agree. There was slight variance among service branches, and this variance has been
    noted where applicable.”

    Wether a large majority agrees with the current policy or not seems to me as somewhat irrelevant, the tide is shifting and it is only a matter of time. I say, better sooner than later.

    The crux of this isn’t about gays serving in the military or not, it’s about a man and his opinion and Americas seeming march towards shouting down anyone we don’t agree with….HELLO! Does anyone remember the voices prior to March 23, 2003 and beating the same drum ever since?

  • MCH

    Benjamin;

    Judging by your photo, are you related to Dave Nalle?

  • Benjamin Cossel

    Dave has a U.S. Calvary Stetson on?

  • JustOneMan

    Gee…how could it be?? Even France has some sanity left!

    France’s highest court Tuesday rejected as unlawful the first marriage by a gay couple in France, annulling the union of the two men.

    JOM

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    [Personal attack deleted]

    BTW, is that title the way you wanted it to read? What’s a ‘gay ray remark’? Is Gay Ray someone we should know about?

    Dave

  • moonraven

    This piece made no sense at all. [Personal attack deleted]

  • moonraven

    Right–Any old piece of shit is just fine.

  • Arch Conservative

    “The overwhelming majority agree with the Generals personal views!”

    sure bout that?

    Well zing considering that in every state the citizens have voted on banning gay marriage, they have voted in favor of banning it I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say that many people would agree with the don’t ask don’t tell policy.

    Benjamin, you goofy looking mofo, can you please take that ridiculous hat off and cram it straight down Moonbat’s throat so we don’t have to listen to her anymore?

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    MR, how you can not make sense of this article is beyond me. Here’s a summary in two sentences.

    Don’t ask don’t tell is a bad idea. Pace has the right to express his opinion.

    Now was that so difficult to get out of the article?

    Dave

  • Benjamin Cossel

    Dave – Roger edited it and included the title, not sure why it was chaged to what it was either. Fixed.

    MR – Whilst I certainly don’t claim to be any great scribe, I do fail to see how this made no sense. I do believe that Dave distilled it just perfectly.

    Arch – Well seeng as I was with the unit at the time the photo was taken (1st Cav Div), you need not worry about me wearing it again though it does hang in a place of honor in my home.

  • zingzing

    i wasn’t talking about “don’t ask, don’t tell,” archie. i was talking about “gay sex is immoral.”

    i suppose i didn’t make that clear, and i’m not sure what whomever i was referring to was referring to now that you bring it up. oh yeah, it was jom. and i’m pretty sure that it doesn’t matter to him if we are talking about “da,dt” or the other. of course, we as a people don’t decide military protocol, so, as a people, we could only agree or disagree with the other.

    actually, i kinda think “da, dt” is a good policy, within the military. the type of person who enters the military is not… traditionally… usually… the type who gets to be best buds with gay people or wants to sleep in a muddy hole with them. ooh.

    that said, i don’t think that the military should be able to deny entrance into the armed forces based on sexuality, or to kick someone out because it does turn out they are gay. maybe i’m just for a “don’t ask” policy.

    anyway. still, i think that most (that’s not a big “most”) of the people in the united states would shy away from a statement like “gay sex is immoral,” because it’s just none of their business. that wouldn’t stop the biggest denouncers of homosexuality, but most people, i think, would pause a little before answering such a question.

    of course, it really makes no difference at all.

  • MCH

    “Dave has a U.S. Calvary Stetson on?” – Benjamin

    Well, check out the photo on any of his posts. BTW, it should be Cavalry (no “l”).

    [Edited]

  • Benjamin Cossel

    Cavalry…good thing there’s editors huh?

  • Sisyphus

    Arch: “considering that in every state the citizens have voted on banning gay marriage, they have voted in favor of banning it I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say that many people would agree with the don’t ask don’t tell policy.”

    No, I think the claim was that most people would agree with the general’s personal view that homosexuality is immoral. There are undoubtedly many reasons for people to oppose gay marriage apart from issues of morality.

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    actually, i kinda think “da, dt” is a good policy, within the military. the type of person who enters the military is not… traditionally… usually… the type who gets to be best buds with gay people or wants to sleep in a muddy hole with them. ooh.

    Zing, is there no limit to your elitist bigotry? What do you know about the attitudes of the people who join the military towards gays? Not a damned thing. You just assume they’re all knuckle-dragging, bible-thumping rednecks, because you assume that no one with any level of civilization would want to be a soldier. Typical of the left. Soldiers are scum, working people are scum, the poor and minorities are scum – you want their votes and are willing to pay for them, but you’ll cross the street to stay away from them when you see them coming.

    Dave

  • zingzing

    no, i assume they are macho men, but nothing more. and i assume from the things that come out of the military, like pace’s words and the “da, dt” policy. and the hazing.

    the attitude i have towards the military doesn’t really have much to do with the regular joe, but the uppers. they are the ones who show their attitudes in public. it’s all you can really know.

    what do you know about it? (pulling out an mch here.)

    “Soldiers are scum, working people are scum, the poor and minorities are scum”

    my dad was a soldier, i am a working person, i am certainly not rich (actually, i qualify for low-income housing) and i date a minority. typical of the right to assume we’re all upper-class white bigots, eh? you upper-class white bigot. ahem. see?

    “but you’ll cross the street to stay away from them when you see them coming.”

    nope, just the military recruiter and the crackhead bum, and actually, i shared a couple of jokes (they were old) with a crackhead tonight. of course, he was standing in the middle of the street, yelling strange things at the back of cars most of the time… but i got him to come over when there was a cop coming. stop assuming shit of me [Edited]

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    Zing, if you display all the signs of the elitist bigotry that infects the democrats, what else am I to assume but that you’re part of that culture. And I didn’t say you were part of the leftist elite, just that you exhibit certain prejudices which they promote in their politics of divisiveness and promotion of hate and envy.

    You can still share their questionable values and be part of the segment of the population those elites have duped into working against their own best interests and thinking they’re part of the solution when they’re really just perpetuating the problem.

    Dave

  • MCH

    “You just assume they’re all knuckle-dragging, bible-thumping rednecks, because you assume that no one with any level of civilization would want to be a soldier. Typical of the left. Soldiers are scum…”
    – Dave (Vox Populi) Nalle

    This from the same guy who compares traffic fatalities to being killed in combat.

  • zingzing

    dave, you know as well as i do that the military is not the most gay-friendly organization in america.

    so stop frontin.

    and show me where i am prejudiced against anyone, other than bigots themselves.

    i don’t like guns. i don’t like people who want to deny anyone the rights they enjoy.

    WHERE, OH WHERE, DAVE, HAVE I SHOWN ANY BIGOTRY?

  • zingzing

    ok, so i don’t have the highest opinion of christians. or conservatives. (the military is full of these groups.) but, i do tend to keep my criticism of these groups to the ideas i hold to be backwards and destructive. if you are a good, unhateful christian, i have no problem with you. if you are a conservative who promotes equality under the law, doesn’t stupidly running off to war, keeps church and state separate, etc, etc, etc, you can be a conservative.

    i don’t hate anyone (other than a few individuals) and if you can prove where i have said anything that promotes hate, i’ll be glad to say you’re right. but, i know that since i don’t hate anyone, you aren’t going to find it, unless you twist my words around in your brain.