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Orser/Kim Split: And the Ice Thickens….

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With my grumblings (earlier this year) about figure skating, not much has happened to change my opinion. I’m still frustrated with the confusing judging system and the lack of interesting choreography, but a good scandal certainly can add a much-needed spice to the world of figure skating! By spice I’m not referring to Brian Boitano’s cooking show. No, I’m talking about that other Brian, Brian Orser, and his ex–pupil, Kim Yu-Na.

It was the split heard around the (figure skating) world last week when Orser released a statement announcing the split. Since then, there has been little more information provided as to the reasons behind the split. All that it is known is that it was Kim’s decision, and that the relationship was strained by Kim’s noncommittal to the upcoming season, but there have been several swipes taken from both sides. Whatever fragile ice Orser and Kim were skating on harmoniously has crumbled, replaced by a thickening wall of ice that might never warm over again.

What’s interesting is the drama that Orser has himself created. Along with his announcement of the split before Kim and her entourage did so, Orser committed an egregious no-no by releasing details of Kim’s programs for this Fall. Such a move was not only tasteless since he’s no longer her coach, but even more inappropriate because he did so without Kim’s permission. Skaters like to keep the details of their programs under wrap until closer to the first competition, a strategic move. Even Orser’s longtime friend and colleague, David Wilson, was quoted as being “embarrassed” over Orser’s gaff.

Without knowing all the details, we fans can’t make a fair decision on with whom to side, yet with the vibes that I have picked up from years of watching Brian Orser, I know one thing: Don’t ever make him mad. Orser, whom I respect greatly as a skater, always had a certain frosty exterior as a competitor. This is probably why judges seemed to favor the warmer and fuzzier Hamilton and Boitano, both of whom edged Orser out for Olympic Gold.

I agree with others that Kim’s indecision on this year’s plans left Orser and Wilson hanging, leaving Orser hanging in the shadows, unsure of how to plan for their professional futures, and was discourteous. Yet so were the actions and comments by Orser which started this soap opera. Orser has sunk to a low- level, and I’m disappointed that he would take such measures. After having been outed in 1998, I would think that of all people, Orser would respect the privacy that athletes wish to maintain–and not just in their personal lives – but including information about upcoming competitive programs. Should coach (and ex-coaches) not lead by example? For now, no matter the cause of the split, it is Camp Kim that is handling this split with dignity and maturity, while Orser is handling himself with the class of Lohan or Hilton.

Swifter, Higher, Stronger.

 

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About olympicfanatic

  • 0-0

    The backstory you’re not getting in Canada and in the states is that Orser switched his management to IMG which is Japanese owned. Pursuant to this switch, Orser was approached by Mao to be her coach. Orser denied he was “made an offer” in a very Clintonesque manner and emailed Yuna telling her that she is his “first priority”, NOT that he has rejected Mao’s solicitations. This matter seems to have been subsequently resolved privately between them. I can’t blame Orser for exploring even the possibility of coaching the top 2 women skaters. He would be women’s FK god if he had pulled that off. Unforuntately, it seems the calculated claims of “no offer received” and veiled statements lost his credibility and trust with the Kim’s. Orser continued his shadiness by going on CBC and claiming repeating his claim that he ‘never received any offers’ from Mao making seem as if Mao never approached him and Yuna was flipping out on false rumors without mentioning that he was approached Mao regardless whether an “offer” was made or not. Yuna more or less gave Orser a new career and Orser will continue to bank off his role in Yuna’s success for the rest of his life. The guy should be grateful and have a tall glass of shutup.

  • 0-0

    Orser also responded to the awkwardness following the Mao incident by staying away or as he put it on TV by giving her courtesy”. Contrary to Orser’s claims it seems the Kim’s took Orser’s lack of attention not as courtesy but calculating and disingenuous. My opinion if you haven’t figured it out is Orser got greedy and sabotaged his employment. And since when is it ok to trash talk ANYONE’s mom in the press??? I grew up in upper middle class suburbs in New England and even in my neighborhood mincing words about someone’s mom was fighting words.

  • sunny

    Thank you for the information :)

  • @_@

    As evident in o-o’s half-baked conspiracy theory, it’s absolutely amazing how far (some) Yuna-worshipers would go to delude themselves that all this is an evil plan laid out by the scheming Japanese contingent.

    Orser has been together with the IMG as far as people can remember, probably since the late 80s-early 90s at least. The IMG, as one could very easily find out in a quick google search, is currently owned by Ted Forstmann and started out as Arnold Palmer’s agent. It’s an American company if there ever was one.

    What’s more amazing is how far they will distort the words of Orser to put all the blames on him. One, unless deluded, doesn’t need to be told that a contact/inquiry and an “offer made” are vastly different animals and nothing like Clinton’s attempt to wiggle out of the Lewinsky scandal.

    Also Orser simply mentioned one aspect of the program as part of his compliment to Yuna. He didn’t even say the style or the name of the song. What’s so strategically important about Arirang? Will Mao’s choreographer suddenly start downloading traditional Korean music off iTunes to incorporate them into Mao’s program? It was an unfortunate mistake and Orser should’ve known better for sure, but even Yuna’s fans will be hard pressed to tell us how that gaffe will actually hurt the skater. However the detail and facts aren’t really important to them. What’s important is their precious object of worship isn’t shown in a bad light.

    I personally don’t want to take a particular side on this as we don’t know what exactly happened, but we know one thing: Yuna’s management flat-out lied(“it was Orser’s decision to quit”) and promptly (and likely unintentionally) corrected by Yuna’s “stop to tell a lie” twitter entry. Whereas Orser, despite being a loud drama queen, hasn’t shown any sign he’s telling anything that hasn’t happened. Also there’s that comically terrible email interview Ms. Choi of Yuna’s AT Sports company did where she said nothing but insisted they were good and Orser wasn’t. Yet the writer of this article conveniently skips all that and simply concludes Yuna’s handling this “dignity and maturity”? Give me a break. That’s simply a terrible job by her management company.

    Oh, and who should’ve taken care of all this coaching contract stuff in the first place? Yes, Yuna’s management company. Yet where do you hear fans blame Yuna’s management company? Nowhere.

    The fans are fervently trying to sway the public opinion by filling online forums with non-sense conspiracy crap, like the one above, and doing their best atat character assassination of Orser, including spreading out articles like this.

    Yet one thing they’ll never do is to blame on the very obvious culprit of this whole fiasco, the AT Sports. Why? Because Yuna’s incompetent management company is owned by Yuna’s mom, and one thing the fans can never do is question anything said or done by Yuna’s mother. As soon as you do that you’re accused as a Yuna-hater who has sided with Mao Asada and the evil Japanese people.

    Please, stop all this madness and look at the situation objectively. Yes Orser opened his mouth a few too many times and should’ve restrained himself, but Yuna’s side clearly lied, and unlike what the author here claimed, hasn’t handled this situation well at all, IMHO. Moreover, if you’re a true fan of Yuna, you should be banging on the door of AT Sports, asking them why they couldn’t do a better job, not spewing hatred against Orser.

    I thought the Korean Yuna fans would by now be secure enough that they wouldn’t try to come up with yet another inane Japanese conspiracy theory, or brave enough to criticize Yuna’s mom when it’s absolutely justified, but I guess I was wrong.

  • ummmm….

    has anyone seen this? I don’t wanna judge Orser with what he’s done before, but… I now definitely lost trust on him…

  • @_@

    And sorry for the poorly grammar comment above, I should’ve proofread it before but forgot there’s no edit function here.

  • @_@

    Wow, I’ve made another comment filled with errors, dang it, :(

    But yes, ummmmm….’s comment pretty much proves what I’ve wrtten above. They were ready to murder someone before when people mentioned Orser’s sexuality and now… it’s a fair game.

  • jeansguy

    Unless you understand the Korea-Japan relationship, you can’t possbily understand the significance of planned Arirang to be performed at 2011 World championship in Tokyo, Japan. Yuna’s choice of Arirang would have been a surprise gift to the Korean people. Thanks Orser, for ruining that surprise.

  • @_@

    wow jeansguy. Not that Orser acted appropriately there, but, umm, what surprise? Do you seriously think if Orser didn’t leak the information nobody would’ve found it out until the very moment Yuna performs it or they wouldn’t have announced it beforehand?

    Not everything has to be about Japan. I thought Korean people would’ve gotten over that inferiority complexity/former colonial oppression stuff by now.

  • lol

    @ @_@
    it’s amazing how far some Mao-worshipers would go to deceive people. lol
    check this out!

    how someone could change the words without feeling guilty….

  • @_@

    @lol, Orser said he was approached but wasn’t made an “offer,” so there’s no lying in that at all. If anybody lied, it’s Yuna’s management and you know it.

    Moreover, you’re proving my very point. Are you trying to insinuate that I am a “Mao-worshiper” just because I have galls to criticize the hypocritical fans and point out how inept Yuna’s management is? What the heck does that have to do with Mao?

    See this is the thing. With Yuna’s fans, everything, I mean everything is somehow about Mao and Japan. Who cares about Mao when this is about Orser and Yuna(and her crappy management)? Why don’t you open your eyes and see that world is more than just Yuna vs. Mao? It just reeks so much of blind patriotism, xenophobia and inferiority complex.

  • jeansguy

    @_@, you missed the point about who has the right to disclose program information. It’s up to the skater – not the FORMER coach – to decide when and if to disclose the infomation. And yes, Koreans have not gotten over the 36 years of Japanese occupation. As a matter of fact, Koreans still talk of the Japanese invasion of Korea between the years 1592-1598 as if it happened just yesterday ( – just ask any Korean about Admiral Yi Sun-sin.) Koreans will forget about Japanese atrocities probably when Jews forget about the nazis. Having said that, the choice of Arirang – something quintessential Korean – to be performed on Japanese soil is a stroke of masterly genius. It was to have been Yuna’s surprise gift not only to the Korean people but to the wonderful Japanese people who are struggling to move on.

  • lol

    @ @_@
    what’s the difference between “offer” and “approach” in this situation? do you even understand what I say? u think they(mao’s) approached Brian and just said hi?
    LOL.
    why would anyone approach someone’s coach??
    think about it.

  • ummmm….

    Hey, @_@, I wasn’t talking about Orser’s sexuality at all. Don’t get me wrong. It was the fact about what he did to his ex-boy friend (about killing their dogs…) that surprised me. Yes, Orser said some information was inaccurate, but who knows. Now that I see his childish media play, I kinda believe that what his ex said was not inaccurate.

  • @_@

    @jeansguy

    You completely missed the point. The fact is, skaters WILL announce their program prior to their first competition. So at the time of the performance there will be no surprise, contrary to your claim. I do not defend Orser’s action. I just question how much harm it actually has caused. To me it’s just an extra bullet point used for ad-hominem attacks on Orser. Did he do something wrong? Absolutely. But did he actually cause much harm to the skater? Not really.

    Do the fans of Israel figure skaters constantly talk about how German skaters are trying to hurt the Israeli skaters and blame everything on Germany? No. But that’s what some Yuna fans are doing.

    @ lol
    Since you’re obviously refusing to “think about it”, let me explain it to you very slowly.

    I see a car. I ask the owner “Nice car, is this for sale?” That’s an approach/inquiry.

    If the owner says “yes,”
    I ask “I’ll give you $20,000, how about that?” That’s an offer.

    “why would anyone approach someone’s coach??”

    Umm… to see if they are available before making a real offer?

  • @_@

    @ummmm….

    I know you only see what you’d like to believe, but if you read the article carefully, it clearly says “However, Leask’s lawyer said this week that some of the claims were inaccurate.” When your lawyer says that, you know you’re lying.

    However that’s not even the main point. If someone said “Orser is gay and had a bad split-up with his ex” 3 months ago, all of you would be so mad and claim his previous actions are misrepresented and his sexuality doesn’t matter. But now that Orser is no longer with Yuna, all those old articles are suddenly brought up by Yuna’s fans. That’s a terrible thing to do. Much worse than anything done by Orser or Yuna.

  • jeansguy

    @_@, not surprisingly, you missed the point once again. Up to a certain point, Orser’s claim of having been disrespected by the Yuna’s camp is completely understandable. It is truly heartbreaking to lose one’s favorite student. The fact that Orser crossed the line by going public with private grievances and annoucing the 2011 program confirm some suspicion that Yuna’s decision to leave this control freak is the correct one. Secondly, Koreans understand and know the difference between the Japanese government and the Japanese people. You can’t, however, deny the fact that present-day Israelis’ and Jews’ psyche is colored by their collective experience (“never again.”) This has been the driving force behind Koreans, and it permeates every aspect of Korea-Japan relationship, including sports. The day when Jews and Israelis can forgive and forget and treat Palesteinians as brothers and sisters – that they truly are – is the day when Koreans will see figure skating for what it is and nothing more. Orser’s mistake here was one of betrayal – his sad attempt to exploit this knowledge to his advantage. Finally, if Yuna had truly disrespected Orser, she would have been pilloried back home. This is a country where any sign of disrepect for one’s senior – whether one’s coach, teacher, mail man, or janitor – is noticed and not forgiven.

  • ho…ho

    @@_@

    >>I see a car. I ask the owner “Nice car, is this for sale?” That’s an approach/inquiry.

    Nobody in figure skating industry uses “approach” in that way. That’s just a greeting or compliment.

    Nobody in skating business using English will understand “approach” like your example. Don’t be fooled by your dictionary.

  • @_@

    jeansguy//
    No I didn’t miss your point at all. Your original point was that Orser took away the element of surprise from the program by telling the one part of the program, and you tried to substantiate by telling me a whole stack on the Korean/Japanese history but I simply pointed out the error on your part: there would be no surprise by the time of Yuna’s first performance on the Japanese stage. Orser has made a mistake, that we can agree, but I disagree that it’s as significant as some fans make it out to be.

    And my original point stands: why the heck do you keep bringing the Japanese-Korean relationship when we are talking about the Orser-Yuna relationship as well as Yuna’s management company? We’re talking about whether Yuna’s team went through the proper procedure and shown proper respect to her coach and whether Orser is telling the truth, why do you Yuna fans have to obsess over the Japanese people/government/figure skaters/cars/cats/dogs/whatever when the issue has very little to do with it? That’s my very point about the paranoid carried out by some Yuna fans.

    Plus even if Yuna really showed strong disrespect towards Orser, she will NEVER be reprimanded for it because of Yuna fans like the ones here. They will always try to guard their queen’s reputation even if it means they have to resort to character assassination and smear attack.

    @ho…ho

    Please, I don’t know what dictionary you’re using, but asking for availability does constitute an “approach” or an “inquiry” and it does not equal an “offer” no matter how much you try to twist it to make Orser look bad. I mean, it’s OK to dislike Orser, but why do you have to invent stuff up to discredit him?

  • jeansguy

    @_@, not surprisingly, you’ve missed the point once again for the umteemth time. Former student or not, Orser continue to have certain obligations. If he thinks he can betry his former student by going public and revealing her future stratetic moves for the world to see, I can easily imagine what must have taken place for the past four years. His crass moves merely confirm that Yuna’s decisioin to leave this control freak is correct. And on the Kim-Asada rivalry, yes, it was Yuna who specifically stated that the immediate cause of the split is the May incident when Orser raised the possibility of coaching Asada. @_@, you sound like a lawyer who is desperate to defend your guilty hero with nonsensical, bogus, hair-splitting arguments. Don’t think your hair-splitting ways can hide the big picture here that it was Orser who betrayed Yuna.

  • @_@

    @jeansguy

    Not really. You’re just repeating yourself to prove Yuna is innocent and Orser is evil and should blamed for all the troubles. Are you seriously claiming that I’m “Trying to defend my guilty hero?” Oh give me a break dear Yuna fan. I assure you that I have absolutely no personal affection towards Orser in any way. The difference between you and me is that you just cannot put any blame on your perfect queen and her mother whereas I can see the situation more objectively, precisely because I have little personal attachment to Orser or Yuna.

    No matter what happened, that doesn’t excuse Yuna’s side for treating Orser that way in the first place. For the same token, it doesn’t excuse Orser from talking to the media one too many times and revealing part of the program. Both sides are at fault but also neither is contradicting each other except Yuna thinks Orser knows “why” and Orser doesn’t agree.

    On the other hand, what you keep refusing to mention, and my original point, is the utter incompetence of Yuna’s management company. Do I have to repeat myself? YUNA’S AGENCY LIED AND CAUGHT RED-HANDED. Yet you and other Yuna fans are just deluding themselves that none of the blame can be put on the Yuna’s side because the company is owned by Yuna’s mom and, according to you, Orser is an evil “control freak”. If it was any other agency, the fans would be all over them…wait, they used to do that all the time!

    Yet neither you or any other Yuna fan is brave enough to point out the obvious; Yuna’s mom and her company drones just screwed. Let’s face it. They started their own agency to save all that money they were paying out to the other agency. However it’s given that the new company would have little expertise handling situations like this. Why can’t you fans just accept that and stop all these non-sense with Japanese conspiracy theories and mud-slinging at Orser?

  • jeansguy

    @_@, yeah, yeah, yeah; blah, blah, blah…. No, I do not know Yuna or her mom. I wish I did.

  • @_@

    @jeansguy

    Umm….what??

  • jeansguy

    @_@: “I can see the situation more objectively, precisely because I have little personal attachment to Orser or Yuna.” I have no personal attachment to Yuna, her mom, or Orser as I do not know any of them personally. Therefore, my views, too, must be more “objective” than yours.

  • ummmm….

    haha, “@_@”, please calm yourself down. Looking at what you’ve been writing, I can see that you are quite aggressive. (don’t feel offended or be upset please). Here, we are just exchanging opinions.

    Regarding what you said about Orser’s past,

    > “I know you only see what you’d like to believe, but if you read the article carefully, it clearly says “However, Leask’s lawyer said this week that some of the claims were inaccurate.” When your lawyer says that, you know you’re lying.

    –> So what? did I ever say what’s accurate or what’s not accurate? Who knows the real fact. However, a person does not easily change and it is my intuition (“my”, not you or anyone else) that some of his ex’s claim could be true. I definitely believe that his media play about Yuna and her mother WAS childish. I REALLY REALLY WISH that he is not such a person who simply feels better when he “revenges” to someone who has made him “unhappy”.

    > “If someone said “Orser is gay and had a bad split-up with his ex” 3 months ago, all of you would be so mad and claim his previous actions are misrepresented and his sexuality doesn’t matter. But now that Orser is no longer with Yuna, all those old articles are suddenly brought up by Yuna’s fans. That’s a terrible thing to do. Much worse than anything done by Orser or Yuna”

    –> hahaha, you are also going toooooo farrrrr. Calm down.

  • @_@

    @jeansguy

    Umm…”personal attachment” doesn’t mean you know her “personally.” It just means you have strong affectionate feelings for that person/object. -_-;; Gee, I didn’t think I would have to teach English here. Mine is bad enough as is.

    @ummmm….

    Wait, I am aggressive? You’re the one who’s using unproven statements from a bitter ex to paint someone as an imbecile. Do you see that the comment from the ex’ lawyer followed immediately after the dead dog part? And Orser also said this: “(Orser) offered them to Leask but he declined and one is “happily” in a new home while the other was put down on a vet’s advice.” If you don’t believe me, Google it.

    Geez. I don’t know who’s aggressive. Someone who’s willing to make up facts to what amounts to a libel or someone who’s asking them to see straight. Are all Yuna’s fans this bad?

  • jeansguy

    Lets not get personal here, ey? You sound like like someone up north with legal training, seeing your Clinton-like, nitpicking sophistry running through your comments. Ummmm….

  • @_@

    Sorry jeansguy, you aren’t even coherent anymore. I’ve made a few very clear points and told you what “personal attachment” means and now you think I’m getting personal and sounding like a lawyer. Just what the heck are you talking about??

  • @_@_@_@_@

    Yuna made the right decision. It’s clearer than ever now.

  • jeansguy

    @_@, lol, lets not get emotional here. Kim and Orser were good for each other while they were together. Yuna is an Olympic champion. Champion or not, skaters do change coaches all the time. If she wants to move on, she should be allowed to move on. It’s just a sad ending to a beautiful story.

  • @_@

    @jeansguy

    Oh I’m not getting emotional at all. I’m just perplexed and frustrated by Yuna fans, like you, who are trying to deny the obvious and not answering the real question. It’s not the fact she left Orser but “how” she left Orser that’s being questioned and what terrible job her management has done throughout the whole fiasco.

    Yet all of you’re refusing to consider the possibility that your precious queen and her perfect mother could’ve done something wrong. Let’s face it: if it was Yuna the coach who got fired(or as you all claim, end-of-contract’ed) in a similar fashion, all of you would be claiming what a terrible thing the student has done to her coach.

  • jeansguy

    How it ended is personal and between Yuna and Orser. Orser claims he does not know why he was “fird.” Yuna claims Orser knows. I don’t know what happened as I was not there. Orser’s behavior after the fact that crossed the line, however, shows that Yuna probably had problems with Orser’s controlling personality all along. The May incident in which Orser attempted to leverage Asada to his advantage was what finally did him in. I don’t believe Yuna dissed Orser. She’s from a country where a teacher-student relationship is sacred. It’s a country where any dissing of one’s senior – whether a teacher, coach, brother, sister, politician, lawyer, housekeeper, or janitor – comes with severe repercussion.

  • @_@

    And I’ve said it million times: both sides have made mistakes and you cannot blame it on just one party. That I agree and it was a personal thing. I don’t agree at all about the leverage thing, but whatever.

    However only one side is proven to have lied, and that’s Yuna’s management company. But look at you and everybody else on this page. You all are vilifying Orser and desperately trying to make him look bad so nobody would question the utter incompetence of Yuna’s company. That is precisely the problem with you and all the other Yuna fans. You just cannot accept the fact Yuna’s side messed it up, badly. If you really want to support Yuna, you all should be loudly complaining to AT Sports, not spreading rumors like “Orser lied in interviews,” “Orser killed dogs,” “Orser signed with IMG in May” etc.

    I mean, you all used to complain, very vocally I might add, about IMG Korea and IB when Yuna was with them. Why don’t you do the same with AT Sports? Oh that’s right. The company is owned by Yuna’s family! Geez. What a disgraceful hypocritical group of fans Yuna has.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Who is @_@ < this?

  • jeansguy

    jeannie danna, @_@ sounds like Orser’s attorney or his PR man.

  • @_@

    @jeansguy

    Sorry, but you have a serious case of reading comprehension problem, as with most other people here. My criticism is mainly targeted at the rabid fans vilifying Orser and perpetuating the Japanese conspiracy theory as well as Yuna’s incompetent agency and their way of handling this incident, not Yuna or Orser.

    Now that you’re stooped down to a new low by accusing me of being a shill for Orser, I suppose I can think you as AT Sports’ PR person. Fitting, I suppose, seeing that your English is about as good as what we’ve seen from them in the past.

  • John

    @_@, I appreciate your calling out the lies surrounding these attacks on Mr. Orser. Another interesting bit of information: Someone identifying herself as a member at Thornhill Figure Skating Club in Toronto left a comment the other day at a Chicago Tribune blog, saying that Japanese skaters have always come and trained in the Cricket, the Granite, and other clubs there in summers from as far back as 1999, not just since Mr. Orser “newly signed” a contract with “the Japanese-controlled” IMG “for a huge sum” in May as some are claiming. So there, who’s telling the truth, I wonder.

    I for one Korean fan cannot imagine how Kim’s camp was more hurt than annoyed/offended by Orser’s comment on their score. Orser’s mistake, for sure. But for AT Sports to issue a statement and say that the comment “could only be construed as intending to hurt Kim” may have been one of their many missteps. Hopefully we all will live and learn.

  • jeansguy

    @_@, you know way too much about ins and outs of Yuna, her mom, and AT Sports than I care to know. Who cares??? They just want to move on. You are doing a terrible job as Orser’s personal PR man.

  • @_@

    @John

    Couldn’t agree more on both points. It’s understandable that the fans are trying to protect their player, but they shouldn’t have to resort to blatant lies and character assassination to do that, especially when your side was caught lying.

    @jeansguy

    Are you serious? You were the one who tried to lecture me on ins and outs of Yuna, her mom, Orser, Japan&Korea, etc. Obviously you DO care so much about them. You just aren’t honest enough to admit the mistakes made by Yuna’s side, because your fanatic obsession doesn’t allow any criticism towards Yuna, her mom or AT Sports.

    I see that you haven’t really refuted any of my arguments. Do you have an actual point to make outside calling me a PR man for Orser? You now sound like a little 2nd grader desperately trying to win an argument by calling their parents poor.

  • jeansguy

    @_@, lol…, do you know what you just wrote? -“your fanatic obsession doesn’t allow any criticism towards… her mom….” Where I come from, moms are off limit. I bet where you come from, attacking ANYONE’S mom is also off limit.

  • @_@

    @jeansguy

    Ummm, no. If your mom/dad is the one running the show as the head of the management agency and shown to be incompetent, then they are NOT off limit. If anything, there’s not enough blaming on her since she’s the one who decided to start their own company without the requisite expertise.

    You don’t want Yuna’s mom to be criticized? Tell her to step down and hire people who know what they are doing. It’s fine if she wants to stay, but don’t expect people not criticize on her just because she’s the “holy” mother.

  • jeansguy

    @_@, Lol… Orser said he was dissed. Yuna and AT Sports said he wasn’t. It’s he said, she said. You weren’t there, so there’s no proof to support either side. This usually ends the discussion, but you seem just too emotional, wanting to go after someone’s mom and all, lol.

  • John

    @jeansguy

    “It’s he said, she said … there’s no proof to support either side.”

    The point is not who’s the worse here, the skater or the coach. It is rather that some people have used speculations, half-truths and conspiracy theories to attack Mr. Orser while being silent on the obvious mistakes of the professional management company.

    Pointing that out is not the same as “going after someone’s mom,” and you know it. Perhaps this is a reminder for us all that we should be careful about what we say, especially if it has to cut down real people, whether somebody’s mom or a grown man, whether online and anonymously or in person. None of us could claim absolute innocence in that regard. Nobody would be dealing with this mess if everyone had been careful with his words in the first place.

    I agree with you on one point, that further discussion on this matter is likely to be fruitless.

  • wow…

    Now mister (or miss)!

    You’ve made your points sufficiently clear. It is also clear that the other dude will never give up his rhetoric.

    Why not declare peace, so that you could find something better to do. Anyone following this thread with a brain should see who’s made better arguments. Do you want more victory than you have already accomplished? Check out, let the other party declare victory and go home.

    You know who you are.

  • @_@

    @jeansguy

    You keep ignoring the main issue. No matter how you try to twist the situation, AT Sports did a horrible job, and Yuna’s mom is the head of the company. You say there’s no proof on anything, but we have proof AT Sports baldly lied, and was promptly corrected by Yuna herself. Even you cannot really deny that; AT Sports, Yuna’s agency and the company run by Yuna’s mother, flat out lied.

    And this is exactly the problem. I’m criticizing Yuna’s mom precisely because she’s the head of the agency and usually the person that handles much of the tasks related to Yuna. Yet you’re trying to make it look like an ad hominem attack on “someone’s mom,” which isn’t the issue here at all. I question her way of doing business and her competency, not her personality.

    This is doubly insulting coming from people who will readily bad mouth Orser on flimsy evidence. Yet you claim “someone’s mom” is outside criticism because it’s “someone’s mom.” We know she’s outside criticism for you fans because she’s Yuna’s mom, not because she’s a mom.

    If you can’t understand the issue or keep wanting to change the subject matter in order to divert attention away from the main culprit of this whole fiasco, Yuna’s management agency, there’s no hope that the fans will ever be rational. I guess I’ll have to also agree on that any further discussion on this matter will be pretty useless since no matter what evidence there is, nobody can convince you that Yuna, her mother nor AT Sports can do anything wrong or should be criticized. Cognitive dissonance is real but with you Yuna zealots, I’m not even sure you feel any discomfort at all.

  • @_@

    @wow…

    You’re, of course, absolutely right that I’m wasting time and precious electricity doing all this. But it’s not just merely about “victory,” but my determined attempt, probably a futile one, to make someone see the light.

    Obviously as you’ve said, the person probably will not give up his/her rhetoric, but after seeing so much hate mongering, cyber-bullying and libel committed by some of Yuna’s fans online, I’ve decided I had to let it out somewhere. I apologize to all who took an offense from it, but not to Yuna fans.

  • jeansguy

    @_@ and John, the lady just wants to change her coach and move on. It must be hard to see your hero getting dumped, but do you really have to go after her mom, her dog, and everything else?

  • haha

    1. Soothing rhetoric –> “It is a fantastic program, by far the best one I’ve seen. It is beyond even her Concerto in F (the Olympic long program to Gershwin.) It’s a complete departure.”
    Actually he did –> Opeing the music ‘Arirang’ of Yuna’s new program to the press without kim’s prior consent.

    2. Soothing rhetoric –> “I’m sure you have heard the rumors, but I want you to know my loyalty is to you, and your skating is my priority.”
    Actually he said –> “I have to say that I was flattered she has an interest, but your skating comes first. let me know if you any concerns or thoughts.” He had a foot in both camps.

    3. Soothing rhetoric –> “Financial issues had nothing to do with the split.”
    Actually he said –> “I’m the lowest paid coach at this level in the history of figure skating,” Orser said. “I get $110 an hour, and that is what I charged her. I did make something from Korean commercials…. blah,blah,blah….

    4. Soothing rhetoric –> “I wish her all the best as she moves forward in her skating career.”
    Actually he did –> He broke the news on the same day as the first ticket sale day of Yuna’s US show.

    5. Soothing rhetoric –> At the CTV, he respected Yuna as an adult in classy manner.
    Actually he did –> In other articles, he used a word “Kid” and “girl” like that “Kid who cares of their mom” or “19 years girl whose emotion up and down sometimes.”

  • haha

    ORSER SAID THAT HE SENT SEVERAL EMAILS TO A MEMBER OF KIM’S MANAGEMENT TEAM AND YUNA BUT RECEIVED NO RESPONSE

    According to many articles from Orser’s side, it seemed sound like that Yuna had never replied him back.

    Let me say, Orser sent email to Yun as she stayed in Korea in April and July for her Ice Shows.

    In April, however, he was saying at the Korean TV interview that Yuna replied to his email.
    ….Please note the below link, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xdLQJ6lrX4&feature=player_embedded

    In July, Yuna stayed in Korea for a week for her ice show. A week was short of time. Yuna, her mom and her small agent were tightened with her schedules only for a week (for examples, ice show (July 23-24, 4 times performance), filming lots of commercial ad, attend Korean TV show, lots of press conference and various events, in charge of several roles as a public reprehensive such as ‘G20’ etc.,)).

    For your reference, there were Korea articles stated that “Yun was extremely busy so she stayed at he hotel instead of family’s house and did not have a time to have a meal with family. Her father finally met his daughter just once at the airport when she departed to Canada.

    I’m sure Orser must know these how she was terribly busy through his experience whenever he visited Korea with her for several ice shows for last 3 years in limited time line. You can image how she would be extremely busy for a week in Korea?
    Didn’t he might generously understand that Yuna may not reply to his email, instead of making rapid progress like Yuna insults or disrespects me.

    Even though he didn’t know her schedule because of no communication between them, he can possibly enough contact her when Yuna returns to Canada after a week. Or if his email would be extremely urgent not to waiting a week, he could directly call her instead of email. Or were there some difficulties between them to directly talk to her face-to-face as Yuna back?

  • haha

    THERE WAS NO EXPLANATION FROM ORSER WHAT HAPPEND FROM MAY TO JULY.

    At the CTV interview, Orser said Yuna mam told him not to make any time for her daughter because they were unsure of their plans for the off-season in April.

    The Contract between Yuna and Orser ended in April.

    FYI, here is the timeline according to AT Sports- (quoted from universal sports article).
    http://www.universalsports.com/blogs/blog=gofigure/postid=490058.html#orser+says+what+does+kim
    ……May 2010 – The relationship between Brian Orser and Kim’s agency is strained
    (Note: Orser said at the CTV and articels, there was no problem until he knew through the internet that yuna’s plan to skip the GP series and attend World Championship in Tokyo 2011 and got a call from shae Lynn Bourne in July.)

    ……June 2010 – Kim begins practicing without a coach

    ……Early August 2010- Kim’s agency and Orser agreed to Kim and Orser taking some unofficial time off

    ……August 23, 2010 – Orser informs AT Sports he will no longer be able to care for Kim, which AT Sports understands as Orser stepping down.

    I WONDER WHY HE DID NOT TRIED TO ASK YUNA AND HER MOM EXACTLY THE REASON WHY HE FIRED

    According to Chicagotribune’s recent article:
    http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/sports_globetrotting/

    …. For all that, Orser said nothing for the three weeks after Kim’s mother, Park Mee-hee, and an agent, Helen Choi, told the coach and Tracy Wilson, who also helped coach Kim, in an Aug. 2 meeting at the Toronto Cricket & Skating Club that they were no longer the skater’s coaches…
    …. Orser and Wilson had a final conversation with Kim last Thursday. They told her they still were confused by what had happened. According to Orser, Kim replied that she was confused as well and “had no idea what is going on, either.”…..

    I wonder why he didn’t ask Yuna exactly the reason why he was fired instead of ‘confuse.. what had happen’ on Aug 20 (Thursday), if he thought he was fired, before he determined to go public on Aug 23. Last Thursday, When Yuna meet Orser without her, she must think that both of them have the ‘time-off’ for a while as like her mom said to Orser on Aug 2.

    Didn’t he want to know the reason or not? And then Orser was going to make public and said I was fired without reason?

  • haha

    ……Contract between Orser and Yuna was officially ended in April 2010 and there was no renewal. Therefore, the word “fire” seems not appropriate. It is just “split” not “fire”.

    ……At the CTV, he respected Yuna as an adult in classy manner. However, in other articles, he used a word “Kid” and “girl” like that “Kid who cares of their mom” or “19 years girl whose emotion up and down sometimes.

    And consistently wish to believe in his nuance that Yuna seems to being dragged by her mom even though she clarify whatever it was she made decisions in her Twist and Face-book.

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/olympics/article/853079–music-leak-adds-sour-note-to-figure-skating-soap-opera
    And then let the press allow treat Yuna like that “In the words of one sage coach, Kim’s age in the real world may be 14, given the insular orbit these athletes inhabit.”

    Also, I wonder whether or not he remembered his interview to the Korea broadcasting SBS right after Olympic that Yuna, at 16 age, the one who choose Orser as her full-time coash.

  • @_@_@_@_@

    @_@ has waaaaayyyyy to much time on his hands. I hope Orser is paying you well for this.

    Get over it, your hero got fired, probably for good reason. No explanation is needed. Coaching changes happen all the time without any reasons being given. It seems Orser just can’t let go of is former pupil. I’m really disappointed with his attention seeking media antics. It’s childish and unprofessional.

  • @_@

    Holy moly. I thought I’d just leave it and Yuna fans took over.

    People. I didn’t make a single comment praising Orser, and not everyone who criticize Yuna’s management on this matter is a “follower” of Orser. What the heck is wrong with you Yuna fans? Is simple logic that hard for you? Orser is no angel, but your hero’s team messed it up and see that Yuna, nor her mother, is perfect and they all have made mistakes.

    And I always find it hilarious when people say another person has “too much time” on his hands when they are reading all that stuff and writing something in return… but thinking isn’t exactly the strength of mindless religious zealots, which is what many of Yuna fans are.

  • huh

    @_@>Mybe you are not a follower of Orser, but just another pathetic jap troller.

  • @_@

    @huh

    Oh that’s golden. I criticize Yuna’s management and suddenly you think I must a Japanese troll? It must be a great feeling living in a world of simple false dichotomy where all non Yuna fans are Japanese and the queen and her mother can do no wrong.

  • comeon

    @_@//
    Don’t you see you look like zealot for yuna-phobia? I take pity on you and i’m gonna give you a word. Just forget yu-na and leave here.

  • @_@

    comeon

    Don’t you see that I haven’t made a single particularly negative comment about Yuna as a person or as a skater? In order to be a yuna-phobic person, I’d have to hate her first, which I don’t. I just hate irresponsible and irrational fans like you cannot escape a world of false dichotomy. If you cannot accept that, forget the internet and leave here.

  • @_@

    I had wished to have a debate with some substance. But now it’s clear none of Yuna fans will make an actual point apart from making false claims and slinging mud, so I guess I’ve had enough of trying to educate the deeply religious and will stop now.

    I’d say I had a decent amount of fun here(and a lot of frustration) and wish all of you happy lives in the churce of Yuna. ;)

  • huh

    OK guys !
    Don’t waste your time!

    Troller is looking for a response…ANY response, and he will chum the waters with complaints, insults, compliments, and inflammatory tidbits hoping that someone…ANYONE, will take the bait. Generally quite harmless – practices a form of catch and release. Nonetheless, he can upset the delicate ecology of a discussion forum. Once a forum becomes aware of his presence, however, all feeding activity ceases and Troller must move on to more promising waters.

  • Cali

    @_@, do you know where Yuna is right at this moment? She’s in Pakistan doing relief work. All the young lady wants is move on with her life and do great things. Orser does not “own” her, you know.

  • Cali

    @_@, personally I think you got some personal “feelings” for Orser. This is fine – to each his own. But let it go, man. Besides, you keep losing in your so-call “arguments” (nitpicking.) There’s no logic to what you are saying; just emotion.

  • @_@_@_@_@

    I could understand the Yuna fans but who knew Orser had so many fanbois? Never heard of him before Yuna, will never hear of him again after this controversy is over. Bye Bye!

  • John

    @_@_@_@_@,

    Gloating over an imagine victory, are you? What will it take to finally get it in your head that this debate was never about Kim vs. Orser?

    It was about the deplorable behaviors by certain fans using exaggeration, false information and conspiracy theories to attack one party, all at the same time being silent on the obvious faults of Kim’s management.

    If you need an example of one of those lies, look no further than a couple of entries up: “Yuna is in Pakistan doing relief work.” Tweeting something about Pakistan and learning about a gift being sent there, does not constitute “being in Pakistan doing relief work.”

    “The contract simply expired in April.” Get this: According to Orser there never was a contract from the beginning, and Kim’s camp has not disputed it. So which contract was it that ended in April? You yourself seem to think that Orser got fired and for a good reason. I bet you couldn’t name one single “good reason” that is not a speculation.

    Cali, I suppose you might now accuse me of having personal “feelings” for Orser. But you say,

    “That is fine—to each his own.”
    “But get over it, man.”

    Well, which is it?

    A smear campaign against Orser actually puts Kim Yuna in a very bad light for anyone who cares about decency and honesty.

    Again, the points:

    Kim, Orser: both responsible.
    Lying: not good.

  • Cali

    This thread is turning creepy with cyber bullying and stalking. Read the original article more carefully. No one’s saying Kim’s camp are angels. The young lady just wants to move on. What does Orser and his supporters want out of her life?

  • hey @_@

    It’s clear @_@ is Janpanese!… It’s amazing how all Koreans love both Yuna and Mao. But, when there are news about Yuna, there seems to be always Japanese Yuna haters writing essays… why is that? If you notice, we were not saying bad things about IMG or Japan, it was about Brian.

  • hey John,

    Notice that this is not about smearing campagn but it looks like your smearing campaign against everyone… even Yuna’s Fans. If you’re not a fan of either Orser or Yuna, why are you on this post?

  • fairguy

    I’m not a skating fan but i’m a Canadian and learned kim yu-na win in vancouver and her coach is orser.

    This bitter separation is sad and i know kim’s fans are loyal to the point of partial blindness. Orser is a professional coach, he has to look himself. He doesn’t have a lifetime contract with kim so Orser is open to discuss potential career leads. Kim is very lucky orser is gay, or else any romance between kim an orser would jepardize kim and orser’s concentration and focus to training.Since Kim had expressed less desire to compete after her win in vancouver, orser has the right to take calls. Kim does not own orser, so u KYN fans stop whining about loyalty and bow to korea. There is even on KYN fan said if South Korea has nuclear bomb, canada will be nuked because orser disloyalty. Stupid KYN fans, korea buy their candu nuclear reactors from canada, several of them too.

  • fairguy

    I’m a badminton fan and the best players presently are mostly from china. International (asia, denmark, canada, etc) badminton players dislike going to korea open to compete because their domestic chosen line judges are cheaters, to the point of ridiculus.

    show badminton line judge cheating. The birdy was out by 6 inches, this is like in tennis the ball is out by 1 foot because line judge should able to tell the difference by millimeter. The team are indonesia versus korea

    here is the famous squabble between world best men singles player against korea’s home soil favorite. The shuttlecock is out but was called in at match point for china at 1:10. The korea broadcasting doesn’t want to show replay either.

    korean students are famous for cheating in exam

    even korean scientist falsify research to gain recognition and fame korean scientist charged with fraud.

    cheating is in korean’s blood and culture. So if KYN’s mom open her mouth, i would only believe 50% of it at most.

  • fairguy

    (in badminton, if the umpire didn’t actual saw the call himself, he has to take the line judge’s call as valid, even if the tv, the audience saw the call as incorrect)