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Obama’s Telling Slip of the Tongue

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You've heard this kind of story. A man's boss introduces him to a new client named Mr. Starr, who happens to have a huge scar running down his cheek. The man is desperate to make a good impression and quite nervous, and knows that the one thing he absolutely must not do is address the client as Mr. Scar. So he focuses all his attention on not saying the name wrong, and what's the first thing out of his mouth? "Hello, Mr. Scar." He inevitably says exactly the one thing which he absolutely must not say.

Barack Obama had that moment on Sunday on This Week, with George Stephanopoulos. Stephanopoulos had already surprised Obama by unexpectedly and pointedly calling him on several gross misrepresentations of his prior statements and actions.

Obama's not used to that kind of treatment from his friends in the media, so he was a little rattled, and when Stephanopoulos adamantly rejected Obama's attempt to blame the McCain campaign for spreading rumors against him, Obama ultimately had to admit that the accusation was spurious. Then he went on to admit a bit more than he intended, saying "you are absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith, and that…" From there he seems ready to just roll on as if nothing happened, but Stephanopoulos steps in and helpfully points out that he meant to say his "Christian faith."

The Obama campaign's spin on this is that anyone who quotes it is taking it out of context. But I watched the whole show. The quote is self-contained and clearly is exactly what it appears to be. When pressured by a reporter, Obama inadvertently declares himself to be a Muslim and does it so naturally that he doesn't even realize that he's said the wrong thing until it's pointed out to him.

There are lots and lots of ways to interpret this, none of them very good for Obama.

From the far right we're already seeing a 'gotcha' reaction, pointing to the slip as a smoking gun that all is not what it seems with Obama's religious orientation, something which the hardcore right has been claiming ever since they learned he attended a madrassa as a kid and dug up a photograph of Obama in a robe. The cornerstone of their argument is that Islam includes the doctrine of the 'permissible lie' where you may conceal your faith without committing a sin if it is part of a Jihad or if you are lying to unbelievers. This feeds into the conspiracy theory that Obama is some sort of Islamic version of the Manchurian Candidate, programmed from an early age to serve the cause of radical Islam while pretending all his life to be a Christian American. It's a nice, dramatic story, but that doesn't make any of it true.

The defense from the left is predictable and pretty weak, dismissing it as nothing but a slip of the tongue, from someone whom they have set up as a leader of genius and the great orator of our time. Arguing that someone so articulate and intelligent could get flustered and misspeak so seriously when being questioned by a lightweight like George Stephanopoulos, is a pretty weak position to take. But let's just dismiss it. The evil Republicans have been calling Obama a Muslim so much that it's like the example from the story I told earlier. He can't get the dreaded word out of his head, so he blurts it out.

As always, the truth lies somewhere between these two extremes. As Stephanopoulos argued effectively enough for Obama to be forced to agree, no one on the right who is taken seriously is really pushing the idea that Obama is a secret Muslim. Why bother? The Christian church he attended for years is as bad as anything you'll find in Islam, and if the public will give him a pass on that, they're probably willing to overlook anything.

What this slip really does show is a weakness and uncertainty which Obama's glibness usually hides pretty well. It shows an inexperience and a lack of focus which may be a problem in the increasingly intense final weeks of the campaign and certainly would not serve him well once elected. He's thinking about things he shouldn't be thinking about and losing conscious control over his reactions. He's letting the pressure and the criticisms get to him. He may not be a closet Muslim, but it's clear that when people claim that he is one, it upsets and worries him. It raises doubts, and clouds his thinking. Maybe it's because he's not so sure who he really is and wishes he'd had a chance to explore his Muslim heritage. Maybe it's because he feels particularly vulnerable on the issue because deep down he thinks it has some merit. Maybe it's just because he thinks it's a particularly offensive kind of attack and it just pisses him off.

Whatever the cause, it certainly shows that beneath the calm and slick surface, there may be dark and troubled waters filled with the looming shapes of monsters from Obama's id. We have to ask ourselves if we have confidence in a candidate who is still at the mercy of that primitive part of his psyche.

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About Dave Nalle

  • http://jonsobel.com Jon Sobel

    Whoa, that’s a whole mess of interpretation for one slip of the tongue. Slow news day?

  • troll

    …being humans I suspect that all of the candidates have their demons

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Stephanopoulos’s correction makes even less sense. Why would an opponent’s Christian faith be something McCain would want to make hay out of?

    I suspect, however, that Obama simply forgot to insert the word ‘alleged’.

  • troll

    agreed Dreadful but Obama wasn’t quick enough to correct Stephanopoulos’ ‘correction’ – a clear indication of internal torment

  • http://www.booklinker.blogspot.com Deano

    “dark and troubled waters filled with the looming shapes of monsters from Obama’s id”

    You know if you expand on this a bit more, you just might win the Bullard Lytton Fiction Contest…it is so stupidly bad, it’s good.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    that’s a whole mess of interpretation for one slip of the tongue. Slow news day?

    Jon, it would seem so. But, there is a real question whether, according to Moslem law, Obama is a Moslem. We have Arab and Iranian terrorist leaders claiming he is a Moslem. On the other hand, Moslem legal scholars are debating the issue.

    Obama, of course, is keeping his trap shut.

    Jon, Obama’s natural sympathies are with the Arabs. And you know that, whether you will admit that or not. That works for me. Until people I know and trust can tell me that Sarah Palin wilkkl do what is right and let us end this “Palestinian” shit, McCain is no better than Obama – he supports the “peace process” that will kill this country.

    An enemy who stinks like an enemy is a tool for guys like me to get rid of the puppets of that enemy, the cabinet in Jerusalem. But the bottom line is that the man is surrounded by and supported by Jew-haters.

    I want to make that clear, Jon – Jew-haters – not Israel haters. So far as Israel is concerned, he probably wishes it didn’t exist. From what I read from a lot of Jews, they wish it didn’t exist either. If there were no Israel, there would be no Israelis pounding the door saying that Jews have an obligation to come home, would there.

    But Obama’s Jew-hatred, and the Jew-hatred of his supporters hopefully is what will help drive Jews who absolutely refuse to consider leaving America to come home, to at least consider leaving America, and joining me in coming home.

  • Jordan Richardson

    I hope Obama wins the presidency, sticks Michelle in a hijab, and shouts “Surprise!” right before the adhan blasts out over Washington.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Daniel Miller

    Dave,

    Cut the poor guy some slack. Tanking in the polls, not doing well enough in fund raising, having Governor Palin impailin (sorry, I couldn’t resist) him — no wonder he’s confused. Oh. I was for him (sort of) before I was against him.

    Dan(Miller)

  • Jordan Richardson

    Ruvy, two things:

    1. Interesting that the link you provide is to a blog called, proudly, Anti-Mullah. Are we giving terrorists credibility now?

    2. Has Barack Obama sincerely recited the shahada?

    There is no “debate” amongst scholars as to whether or not he could be a Muslim. He either is or isn’t. He says he isn’t and that denial alone ought to be adequate proof.

  • troll

    …Ruvy – did you see the report of Palin sitting through a lecture by the rep of Jews for Jesus in August at her Church (which is described a ‘more mainstream’ than her old pentecostal one)

    pretty strange

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Jordan,

    You’re right. There really isn’t any debate here. Obama was a Moslem, studied Islam and lived it.

    From the link:

    In 2007, classmate Rony Amiris describes young Barry as enjoying playing football and marbles and of being a very devout Muslim. Amir said, “Barry was previously quite religious in Islam.

    “We previously often asked him to the prayer room close to the house. If he was wearing a sarong he looked funny,” said Rony.

    Amiris now the manager of the Bank Mandiri, Jakarta, recently said, “Barry was previously quite religious in Islam. His birth father, Barack Hussein Obama was a Muslim economist from Kenya. Before marrying Ann Dunham, Hussein Obama was married to a woman from Kenya who had seven children. All the relatives of Barry’s father were very devout Muslims”

    Rony extrapolates further, that Obama at one point had to change his religion if he ever intended later to run for the office of President of the United States because America would never elect a Muslim to the be President of the United States.

    Also in 2007, Emirsyah Satar, CEO of Garuda Indonesia, was quoted as saying, “He (Obama) was often in the prayer room wearing a ‘sarong’, at that time.”

    “He was quite religious in Islam but only after marrying Michelle, he changed his religion.”

    6. His grandfather, after whom he was named Hussein, was one of the first Muslim converts in his village.

    We do not know if he self-identifies as a Moslem or not, but his comment to Stephanopoulos indicates that in spite of all those years listening to Christians haranguing him, Islam lives in his heart.

    As far as the American constitution goes, that shouldn’t mean anything. But so far as policy goes, it means everything.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Yeah, troll, I know all about Brickner’s sermon at Palin’s church. I also know that she disassociated herself from the statements.

  • lLumpy

    you miss the ttuly significant thing here. even though the video was clearly edited for time they didn’t cut obama’s slip. strange from the left-leaning media and a sycophant like stephanopopadopolous.

  • troll

    true – she fell back on the bromide of expressing her 100% support for Israel

    and when I viewed the vid I couldn’t tell if her jaw was so slack due to rapture or astonished disbelief

    all strange none the less

  • Jordan Richardson

    That article is so convoluted and perplexing that I’m hard-pressed to make any sense of it, Ruvy.

    A few things I noticed:

    1. Try and go to the link that the website got the “story” from. You can’t. The Freedom’s Enemies page on “Obama Education” isn’t there.

    2. Ted Belman is a pretty well-known right-wing smear artist. Much like anything read on the Daily Kos, the site which I linked you to on Belman, I’d take anything said with a rather large grain of salt.

    3. The Obama/Muslim connection has been thoroughly debunked by just about every mainstream outlet in the country. There is simply no good reason to believe the lie anymore unless one has a hidden agenda (or a not-so-hidden agenda in your case, Ruvy).

    4. We do not know if he self-identifies as a Moslem or not. Actually, we know he doesn’t.

    5. his comment to Stephanopoulos indicates that in spite of all those years listening to Christians haranguing him, Islam lives in his heart No, it doesn’t mean that.

    Ruvy, if you’re going to try to “prove” something about Barack Obama, I suggest you lay off the wildly speculative reasonsings of hard-right or hard-left “pundits” and stick to the facts.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Jordan,

    Frankly, I’ll believe Belman over any asshole writing of the mainstream media. At least he doesn’t turn himself into a whore for a story like they do, and misreport it when they get their hands on it, like they do.

    As to Obama, you only know what you believe. Obama is a slippery snake, just like the Clintons are.

    And do remember, as of now I support Barak Obama to be president.

  • Jordan Richardson

    Frankly, I’ll believe Belman over any asshole writing of the mainstream media. At least he doesn’t turn himself into a whore for a story like they do, and misreport it when they get their hands on it, like they do.

    Highly debateable. He is a whore for his agenda and he is as guilty of deception as anyone else. Belman’s the same. Whether you choose to believe one asshole or another is your option, naturally, but I prefer to believe actual sourced, factual statements over conjecture and speculation.

    Obama is a slippery snake, just like the Clintons are.

    He may well be, but he’s not a Muslim.

  • http://ex-conservative.blogspot.com Glenn Contrarian

    So we have a choice – Barack Obama with the funny name who has an occasional slip of the tongue…or McCain the ‘national security expert’ who, thanks to his ‘senior moments’, doesn’t know the difference between Sunni and Shi’a and the significance of that difference in our foreign relations.

    ‘Know your enemy’ – that’s been a mantra of great generals since Sun Tzu. McCain, if he doesn’t know that single most important fact about the Islamic schism, hasn’t got a clue.

  • Dorjam

    The next US president will be just like the ones before him and will do as he’s damn well told by the people with the money and the power. Who gives a shit what his name is or his religion. He’ll be another asshole acting on behalf of a nation populated by a majority of flag-waving easily manipulated fools.

  • Jordan Richardson

    Dorjam,

    Bingo.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Dave’s article is typical of the crap that the right wing is desparately attempting in the hope of garnering a vote here or a vote there. Plant the seed. Nevermind that the seed itself is not viable. The objective is for it to germinate in the minds of those who are so vacuous they have ample room for it to grow.

    Now, can we, by that same prescription, believe that every time McCain says something inane and stupid that he is just a few syllables short of dementia? It really must have been a slow news day for Dave.

    Ruvy buys it all hook line and sinker because it supports his “jew hater” belief. I would pose this question to Ruvy just to stir things up and play devil’s advocate: If so many people “hate” jews, why? Arabs and muslims aside, what is it about jews that apparently produces so much hatred? Because jews killed jesus? Give me a break. Anyhow, it was all a part of god’s plan.

    About the polls. They are no more meaningful than when Obama had a substantial lead. It is always predictable that the candidates get a “bounce” immediatly following their respective conventions. I must hand it to McCain with the timing of his Palin announcement, he succeeded in dampening Obama’s convention bounce. Job well done, Johnny.

    Overall, the polls still show the race to be a dead heat. If that’s the best McCain can do after his (I’ll give it to him on this as well) totally unexpected nomination of Palin and his raucous convention antics, I’d say his campaign is still in deep doodoo. The Palin glow will fade, especially if she is shown to be the light weight that I suspect her to be. The McCains better hope that Sister Sarah gets better than “Cs” in her government, economics and international relations survey courses. Perhaps if she prays hard enough, she’ll pull out a couple of “Bs.”

    B

  • lLumpy

    Baritone this response to the Obama gaffe is one of the mildest and most moderate I’ve seen. But like most of the commentary it gives Obama a pass on the rest of the interview which consisted of Obama lying and stephanopopulos pointing out the facts and then more lying and more contradictions with fact.

    Obamas compulsive lying is an embarassment and a lot of demograts are starting to wish they had the iron bitch back.

  • Jordan Richardson

    Name one of the lies from the interview, lLumpy.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    What’s up with the “justified” margins?

    B

  • Arch Conservative

    “I hope Obama wins the presidency, sticks Michelle in a hijab, and shouts “Surprise!” right before the adhan blasts out over Washington.”

    Jordan…more likely it will be a scoody doo ending where Obama during his victory speech pulls off a rubber mask and it’s really Osama.

    “Obama? Osama? Hello Mcfly? you infidels really are stupid.” Then he pulls out some type of detonator device, presses it and shit starts blowing up all over the country as he screaming about allah and MSNBC carries it live with a smiling Keith Olbermann.

  • Jordan Richardson

    Only in my dreams, Arch.

  • Cannonshop

    Dunno, I think he just got so used to dealing with the muslim-slur that he had a celebrity moment.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Who is this iLumpy?

    Is it the new, pocket-sized Lumpy that comes in three different colors and can store up to 10,000 comments?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    >>Whoa, that’s a whole mess of interpretation for one slip of the tongue. Slow news day?<<

    Just thought it would be a fun break from discussion Sarah Palin endlessly. Now I’m off to work on my new Palin article.

    But there were some good points in the comments. It is remarkable that Stephanopolos hit Obama so hard with his questions. As someone pointed out, Obama kept spouting whoppers and Stphanopolos just slapped him down again and again. It was like he was possessed by the late Tim Russert. Sephanopolous seems to have learned the journalist’s maxim – “never ask a question you don’t know the answer to.” Obama needs to learn the corollary that you never lie to a journalist who is reading questions from one hand and holding the correct answers in his other hand.

    Dave

  • Cannonshop

    Well… I wonder if George wasn’t harboring a bit of residual irritation over the Primaries, and how his friend Hillary was treated?

  • bliffle

    So does this end the constant charges of a leftist press?

  • Cannonshop

    Nah, it just means that maybe George Stephanopolous doesn’t like Obama and wants to see him squirm. Personalities, y’know-George was a Clinton man wayyy back.

  • Pablo

    Stephanopolous is also a member of the CFR and Bilerberg Group.

  • Cannonshop

    Pablo, I’m sure if we look around, we can find someone alleging that Obama’s a member of the CFR and Bilderbergers too. It means NOTHING (except,maybe that my hypothesis as to why Conspiracies aren’t all that powerful holds true, and said groups are prone to infighting that cripples their effectiveness enough to make them non-issues).

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Pablo, all sorts of people are members of the CFR. I know members (sadly one just died) and they are perfectly normal and reasonable people of a variety of political persuasions.

    As for Stephie, I think he may have decided he ought to take his job seriously because no one is hiring him on to work for the government again any time soon.

    Tom Brokaw actually gave Biden a similar reaming the other day on Meet the Press. It was very much the same format – ask the guest a question, then politely point out that he’s lying. Then do it again and again and again.

    I think it may be kind of like picking a scab and the interviewers just get frustrated when they have these Dems on who just spout lie after lie after lie and they aren’t even good lies, just predictable and easily disproven ones. If guys like Brokaw and Stephie are liberals it must really piss them off to see people like Obama and Biden just sitting there spouting utter crap and thinking they can get away with it. It’s probably more irritating to them than it would be to a conservative. Hell, it’s disrespectful to the interviewer to think you can get away with stuff like that.

    Dave

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Nice logical (?!) gymnastics, Dave. Of course it could just be that the MSM doesn’t have that liberal bias after all.

    Truth is, you don’t have the first clue what Brokaw and Stephanopoulos were thinking.

  • Cannonshop

    Both Hypotheses are equally true until disproved, Doc. Since we lack the ability to read their minds, however, it becomes a matter of examination and extrapolation from external data-that is, since we can’t read George or Tom’s minds, we have to look at their histories in similar conditions, noted historical tendencies, and model their behaviour from that…

    the result should be about as accurate as a Mann Hockeystick graph showing climate projections on the global scale, with the slight difference that when both sides go all irrational defending their positions, there won’t be an Al Gore saying all debate is over and there is a global consensus.

  • Catey

    The UFO’s are coming.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    The Truth, Dr. D., is that we can see more than one sort of behavior from the media. First, you see the kind of fawning, sycophanitc behavior you saw at the democratic convention followerd by the same people taking a hardline even hostile attitude at the republican convention, making it look very obvious that those reporters are grossly biased to the left.

    But then you have more senior journalists on more serious shows, apparently bending over backwards to be fair in compensation.

    The fact that more serious journalists like Brokaw try very hard not to show bias to the point where they may even overcompensate suggests that they are aware that the former weathergirls doing on the spot interviews with a mike in their hands are embarassingly biased.

    Dave

  • Heloise

    Not “true dat” I’m not surprised at this cheap shot. But just read an article that shows this to be an electoral college race that will be won state by state.

    Your racism and hatred of “the other” is showing Dave. Because everyone misses the obvious: is it a crime to be a muslim or a lack of patriotism somehow?

    Bobby Jindal, don’t hear you talking about him should be accused of being a Hindu since his parents were born in India and he in the USA. Bobby says he is a Christian of one stripe or another. No one is questioning that.

    He also changed his name and anglicized it. You are pushing the old religious test button with the right hand and playing the race card with the other one. You are spouting that there exists a “religious test” for office, while there is NONE for high office.

    Dave, your naivete is showing buddy.

    Heloise

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Wow, Heloise. Don’t bother to read the article or anything. If you HAD bothered to read it you’d have seen that I did not in fact, make the racial/religious argument which others are making over this little slip of the tongue. I was trying to avoid the obvious and make a more interesting point, but I guess you’d rather follow the Obama campaign into the politics of race.

    As for Jindal, I’m not a big fan. I’d probably like him more if he were a muslim or hindu (religiously).

    Dave

  • Condor

    Obama slips up quite a bit. The humorists will have fun with this. Becuase to the American id, Presidents [and Vice Presidents] have become, as Bachevich puts it:

    “the occupant of the White House has become a combination of demigod, father figure and, inevitably, the betrayer of inflated hopes. Pope. Pop star. Scold. Scapegoat. Crisis manager. Commander in Chief. Agenda settler. Moral philosopher. Interpreter of the nation’s charisma. Object of veneration. And the butt of jokes. All rolled into one.”

    Potatoe indeed.

  • Heloise

    I did read the article Dave, first, yes I did. I notice you were POLITE. Okay?

    Helloise

  • Heloise

    Dave writes: “The Christian church he attended for years is as bad as anything you’ll find in Islam, and if the public will give him a pass on that, they’re probably willing to overlook anything.”

    Hmmm, I rest my case.

    Heloise

  • troll

    Gergen (CNN) just mentioned something about a possible per diem issue for Palin – 300ish nights charged for staying in her home

    Dave should oughtta get after debunking ASAP

  • troll

    on the other hand I can’t imagine that Obama didn’t lose a bunch of votes by calling Palin a pig

    what an idiot

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Palin DID pay herself a per deim for staying at her own home.

    Of course we already know the following: She DID put the governor’s jet on ebay, but it didn’t sell. It was later sold through a broker who sold it for approximately 500K less than its book value.

    Sarah was FOR the “bridge to nowhere” and did not change her stance until AFTER Congress had cancelled their approval for the project. However, Tundra Barbie did NOT return the “earmarked” money, but rather applied it to other state projects. One of those “projects” was for the completion of a road that leads up to the point where the “bridge to nowhere” was to begin.

    Sorry for the digression. Now you can all get back to absorbing Dave’s insightful Freudian profile of Senator Obama and his deepmost fears. That Psych 101 class wasn’t a complete waste after all.

    B

  • Jordan Richardson

    on the other hand I can’t imagine that Obama didn’t lose a bunch of votes by calling Palin a pig

    Yeah, and McCain claimed Obama supported sex ed. for kindergarten kids. For the record, Obama never specifically called Palin a pig, but rather said the following:

    “You can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig.”

    He also said:

    “You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It’s still gonna stink.”

    So I suppose Barack also called her a fish?

  • troll

    the fish was ol’ Mac….duh

  • Clavos

    Now that the Hoosier oracle has bestowed “Tundra Barbie” on us, I’d like to return the favor.

    Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the next Senator from Illinois, Kahuna Ken!

    Of course we already know the following: She DID put the governor’s jet on ebay, but it didn’t sell. It was later sold through a broker who sold it for approximately 500K less than its book value.

    Untrue on two counts: It wasn’t sold through a broker, but directly to the buyer, and the price was about $300,000 less than a broker asking price. Items like jets and yachts never sell for asking price, so the difference would include the discount as well as broker’s (had their been one) commission.

    According to the Chicago Tribune:

    Instead, the 23-year-old 10-seat Westwind II was sold in August 2007 for $2.1 million to a Valdez, Alaska, entrepreneur; that’s about $300,000 less than a broker’s asking price, according to news accounts.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I heard about the per diem issue earlier today. I don’t have all the details yet, but as I understand it her overall per diem and travel expenses were 80% less per anum than her predecessor, according to research by Byron York. Of course, getting rid of the plane is part of that. As for the per diem business, the WaPo article doesn’t allege that she broke any rules by taking the per diem, just that it looks funny. I guess there’s some justification for a per diem if you’re using a house you kept but no longer need since you’re living in the governor’s mansion.

    Dave

  • troll

    …Jordan – the point is it doesn’t matter what Obama meant

    it was stupid following Palin’s lipstick reference

  • Jordan Richardson

    Politics is a stupid game and attacks fly in both directions.

    Again, I’d question whether a “pig with lipstick” allusion is worse than claiming, via campaign attack ad, that Obama sponsored sex ed. for kindergarten kids when in fact it was a bill to help protect kids from sexual predators.

    As Bill Burton said:

    “It is shameful and downright perverse for the McCain campaign to use a bill that was written to protect young children from sexual predators as a recycled and discredited political attack against a father of two young girls — a position that his friend Mitt Romney also holds. Last week, John McCain told Time magazine he couldn’t define what honor was. Now we know why.”

  • troll

    – ‘worse’ has nothing to do with it

    think traction and colo(u)r

  • Jordan Richardson

    No. You claimed Obama was an “idiot” for the pig remark. If Obama’s an idiot, McCain is an idiot too. They either both are or they both aren’t.

    Anyway, the bullshit’s getting pretty thick in here as the various spin machines rev up to pull the people away from any real progress.

    As a parting shot to the politics section here at BC, I’ll leave a little “nugget” as to how we Canucks have done things thus far.

  • Clavos

    From the WaPo story on the Palin expense account non-story:

    Gubernatorial spokeswoman Sharon Leighow said Monday that Palin’s expenses are not unusual and that, under state policy, the first family could have claimed per diem expenses for each child taken on official business but has not done so.

    Speaking from Palin’s Anchorage office, Leighow said Palin dealt with the plane and also trimmed other expenses, including forgoing a chef in the governor’s mansion because she preferred to cook for her family. The first family’s travel is an expected part of the job, she said.

    “As a matter of protocol, the governor and the first family are expected to attend community events across the state,” she said. “It’s absolutely reasonable that the first family participates in community events.”

    The state finance director, Kim Garnero, said Alaska law exempts the governor’s office from elaborate travel regulations. Said Leighow: “The governor is entitled to a per diem, and she claims it.”

    The popular governor collected the per diem allowance from April 22, four days after the birth of her fifth child, until June 3, when she flew to Juneau for two days. Palin moved her family to the capital during the legislative session last year, but prefers to stay in Wasilla and drive 45 miles to Anchorage to a state office building where she conducts most of her business, aides have said.

    Palin rarely sought reimbursement for meals while staying in Anchorage or Wasilla, the reports show.

    Leighow noted that under state policy, all of the governor’s children are entitled to per diem expenses, even her infant son. “The first family declined the per diem [for] the children,” Leighow said. “The amount that they had declined was $4,461, as of August 5.”

    Gov. Palin has spent far less on her personal travel than her predecessor: $93,000 on airfare in 2007, compared with $463,000 spent the year before by her predecessor, Frank Murkowski. He traveled often in an executive jet that Palin called an extravagance during her campaign. She sold it after she was sworn into office. (emphasis added)

  • troll

    I agree completely that McCain is an idiot too though I’d bet that his add didn’t capture as many imaginations as Obama’s comment

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    I just watched reruns of both Tom Brokaw’s “Meet The Press” interview of Joe Biden and George Stephanopoulos’ Obama interview.

    Dave must have been watching the interviews in his dreams.

    First as regards the “slip” Dave states that Obama doesn’t acknowledge Stephanopoulos’ correction when in fact, he does. Obama clarifies the statement noting that it concerned McCain’s never having referenced Obama as being a muslim. Stephanopoulos spoke over it, but it was there.

    As to the interviews themselves? Yes, both Brokaw and Stephanopoulos took Biden and Obama respectfully to task, but NEVER ONCE – NOT ONCE Dave, did either of them “point out” lies. In their role as devil’s advocate, they noted the original positions and perceptions regarding whatever issue was at hand, and in each case, the candidates aptly answered them. Your entire characterization of the interviews and your fantasy regarding the supposed dismay that you assumed both Brokaw and Stephanopoulos were feeling is totally bogus. Just as with your lame psuedo psychobabble regarding the “slip” all you are doing is projecting your own bias and your own feelings onto others.

    I think we should all take a hard look at Dave to determine if he doesn’t have, perhaps some “mother” issues, or if he understands that sometimes, it’s just a cigar.

    B

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Sorry, don’t watch MtP any longer since Russert died. Bottom line he was born of a Christian mother and a Muslim father. Is that not correct? So, regardless of which religion is his catch of the day he remains a man with Muslim roots. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Bias much, Baritone? When someone says something and the person he’s talking to then comes back with a correction which shows that the original statement was incorrect, you can call it whatever you want, but it’s reasonable to say that the person lied and was then exposed as having lied when the questioner provides the true answer.

    As for dismay, you may look at things differently, but what I read from Stephonopolous’ tone of voice and mannerisms was disappointment that Obama was giving such poor answers to relatively predictable questions. I agree that Brokaw is harder to read. He always seems sort of exasperated.

    And here I thought I’d get some credit for not going for the glaringly obvious take on Obama’s slip.

    Dave

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    I’ll add this little piece of script so everyone will stop feeling so “self centered” It looks like all the comments are centered because of a loose piece of instruction in the u-tube in the article.

    Always happy to do my part…

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    By the way if the interview was closed captioned, a tweak of any modern tv should reveal one way or the other just by reading the captions…

    wouldn’t it.

    Oh I sure Dave checked that first, after all’ Daves a very thorough man.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Dave after looking over your articles and posts for the last week, you should be that last person accusing anyone of bias.

    Let he who is without sin cast the last stone?

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    But that characterization is totally and unequivocally false. Cite one example Dave. Give me one. What you are saying NEVER occured during either interview. I’ve watched both of the interviews twice. This is something that your mind, perhaps independent from your consciousness, made up out of whole cloth.

    “And here I thought I’d get some credit for not going for the glaringly obvious take on Obama’s slip.”

    There you go again Mr. Nalle. There is absolutely nothing “glaringly obvious” about “Obama’s slip.”
    It’s just that kind of low level discourse to which you are becoming more and more apt to resort: Innuendo. It’s all a load of crap, and you know it. I can envision you with a small, but nevertheless, shit eating grin on your face as you plunk this garbage out. Your offerings were far more tolerable when you were spouting off numbers from this or that data source.

    Now that you have adopted the “Rovian” mantle of character assassination, mis-direction and innuendo, your credibility suffers in kind. Perhaps you have grown a “radio head,” apparently, a large one.

    B

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    By the way that wasn’t a misquote; the last one to throw a stone makes sure the victim’s dead…

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Give him a little credit Baritone, at least he’s not on the BC forum irresponsibly spreading bullshit about Obama wanting to teach kindergarden kids sex education like RJ is.

  • Pablo

    Post 64 Baritone in response to Nalle:

    “It’s just that kind of low level discourse to which you are becoming more and more apt to resort: Innuendo. It’s all a load of crap, and you know it. I can envision you with a small, but nevertheless, shit eating grin on your face as you plunk this garbage out. Your offerings were far more tolerable when you were spouting off numbers from this or that data source.

    Now that you have adopted the “Rovian” mantle of character assassination, mis-direction and innuendo, your credibility suffers in kind. Perhaps you have grown a “radio head,” apparently, a large one.”

    I just want to say that I enjoyed that post very much. :)

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Baritone, I have to assume there’s just something fundamentally wrong with your perceptual skills.

    First off, anyone with half a lick of sense knows that the obvious take on this incident is that Obama secretly IS a muslim and made a slip and revealed it. It may be a stupid take on it, but go check out some right-wing blogs.

    Now, I happen to have kept the Stephanopolis interview. Here is a quote to satisfy your request from one lie earlier in the interview that really stood out:

    Obama: “What I’ve said is let’s provide tax cuts to 95% of the American people…”
    George: “Actually the Tax policy Institute says it’s 81% of American people…”

    So there’s an example.

    And I will give you this, most of the lies Obama put out there were given a pass by Stephanopolous. He was much gentler on him than I remember. There are some real whoppers early in the interview which he doesn’t even try to counter.

    But I have to agree that Obama spins a fine quality line of bullshit and I can understand why it fools those who are inclined not to question.

    Dave

  • http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/39420/joanne_huspek.html Joanne Huspek

    Ruvy: As to Obama, you only know what you believe. Obama is a slippery snake, just like the Clintons are.

    And too, the other side.

    I don’t know if Obama is or isn’t a Muslim. That doesn’t matter so much to me as being screwed in the end, no matter who is in place.

    No matter what the candidates think or do or go to church, no matter what their past, no matter who gets elected, there’s a much bigger picture of the people who are in control.

    None of them is us.

  • Clavos

    Point bears repeating:

    No matter what the candidates think or do or go to church, no matter what their past, no matter who gets elected, there’s a much bigger picture of the people who are in control.

    None of them is us.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Joanne & Clav,

    And whose fault is that?

    B

  • Clavos

    Why, the CFR and the Bilderbergers’ of course, B-tone.

    Don’t you follow these threads at all?

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Dave,

    “First off, anyone with half a lick of sense knows that the obvious take on this incident is that Obama secretly IS a muslim and made a slip and revealed it.”

    That is an example of your modus operandi. Innuendo.

    The “95%/81%” is the best you’ve got? You chose not to include Stephanopoulos’ next line wherein he states that the figures show that the Tax Policy Institute says that his tax cuts would affect 95% of married couples. At best, or worst, a 14% discrepancy. I’m sure that that 14% could be bandied about and be rendered wider or narrower depending upon whose arguments or figures one chooses to believe. By, that IS a whopping lie! Man, what a son of a bitch Obama is!

    AND – There you go again.

    “And I will give you this, most of the lies Obama put out there were given a pass by Stephanopolous (sic). He was much gentler on him than I remember. There are some real whoppers early in the interview which he doesn’t even try to counter.”

    Innuendo, with nothing to back it up. You write this stuff in the assumption that most readers will NOT check out your statements, but rather just take them on face value. I guess you just can’t help yourself.

    B

  • bliffle

    Dave spins his usual BS innuendos in #68:


    First off, anyone with half a lick of sense knows that the obvious take on this incident is that Obama secretly IS a muslim and made a slip and revealed it.

    Do you ‘have a lick of sense’ , Dave? Then it is fair to assume that you think Obama is a secret muslim?

    What say, you, Dave? Is that what YOU believe?


    Now, I happen to have kept the Stephanopolis interview. Here is a quote to satisfy your request from one lie earlier in the interview that really stood out:

    Obama: “What I’ve said is let’s provide tax cuts to 95% of the American people…”
    George: “Actually the Tax policy Institute says it’s 81% of American people…”

    So there’s an example.

    You did check this out, Dave, didn’t you? You did check with the “Tax Policy Institute”, didn’t you, Dave? I’d love to see your citation.

    I have to agree that Dave spins a fine quality line of bullshit and I can understand why it fools those who are inclined not to question.

    Are there any of you out there in BC land who are inclined not to question?

  • bliffle

    Dave is wrong: it’s not a lie but a difference of opinion:

    Now, I happen to have kept the Stephanopolis interview. Here is a quote to satisfy your request from one lie earlier in the interview that really stood out:

    Obama: “What I’ve said is let’s provide tax cuts to 95% of the American people…”
    George: “Actually the Tax policy Institute says it’s 81% of American people…”

    Is Stephanopolis saying that Obama ACTUALLY said 81% and has changed that to 95%? I don’t think so, do you Dave?

    Or was Stephanopolis saying that the Tax policy Institute claimed that the tax plan would only help 81%, not 95%? This seems more reasonable, doesn’t it Dave?

    So Stephanopolis is simply citing an outfit that has A DIFFERENT OPINION about how many will be covered, isn’t he, Dave?

    It isn’t a lie, is it Dave?

    In any case, an honest reading of Obamas comment would take it as a goal. You can give Obamas comment an honest reading, can’t you Dave? Or can you?

    So let’s investigate Stephanopolis’ difference of opinion by researching his claim.

    You did this Dave, didn’t you? just as any responsible reporter would? You checked this out with the “Tax Policy institute”, didn’t you?

    I’d be interested in your citation from the “Tax Policy Institute”, since my own research through Google found NO “Tax Policy Institute”, per se, but I did find an “American Tax Policy Institute”, but, alas, they had no report on the Obama tax plan!

    Perhaps Stephanopolis ‘misspoke’ himself. Is that a terrible crime, Dave? Should we devote an entire article to Stephanopolis’ slip? Is it worth dozens of comments and thousands of words? Should we examine Stephanopolis’ ulterior motives, his hidden agendas, his shameful past? Do you think this shows a deep flaw in Stephanopolis’ character? Should we hound him out of the news business?

    Maybe Stephanopolis just made an ordinary slip of the tongue. Maybe he was just careless. Maybe an employee made the mistake. But can we conclude that Stephanopolis is not as good as, say, Tim Russert? I think so. Can we take a cautious attitude towards things that Stepanopolis might say in the future? I think so. What do you think, Dave?

    Maybe Stephanopolis MEANT to say the “Tax Policy Center”, because the TPC does have some reports and studies on the candidates tax plans. You can see one here:

    TPC study

    I looked through it and couldn’t find anything like what Stephanopolis claimed. But maybe it’s somewhere else.

    I’d be interested in what your research revealed, Dave. You did research Stephanopolis’ claim, didn’t you, Dave?

    Or did you just shoot off your mouth because you figured you had an Obama “gotcha” and that was enough for you?

  • Alec

    Dave – re: He’s thinking about things he shouldn’t be thinking about and losing conscious control over his reactions.

    This, like your entire piece, was a load of claptrap. You really should leave fatuous psychologizing to hacks like Drs Phil or Laura.

    When McCain makes a slip, no one jumps to the conclusion that he is a doddering old fool too old and unfit to be president. Wait. Yes, they do. And you might rightly call them on it. Odd, then, that you so easily jump into the slime here in order to bash Obama over trivia.

    As Freud might have said, sometimes a slip of the tongue is just a slip of the tongue.

    Ruvy – Re: But Obama’s Jew-hatred …

    That’s a bold and malicious statement without an iota of evidence to back it up. I don’t recall seeing such foul paranoia from you before.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I don’t recall seeing such foul paranoia from you before.

    You haven’t been reading many of his comments lately, have you?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Obama’s Jew-hatred …

    I stand by my words Alec. And I’ll be proven right by events.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    You are all forgetting that Ruvy is also prescient.

    B

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Innuendo, with nothing to back it up. You write this stuff in the assumption that most readers will NOT check out your statements, but rather just take them on face value. I guess you just can’t help yourself.

    No, I assume that most readers CAN check this stuff, and I hope (in vain) that they will. If they’d been willing to do the checking they would be the one raising the issue, not me.

    Do you ‘have a lick of sense’ , Dave? Then it is fair to assume that you think Obama is a secret muslim?

    What say, you, Dave? Is that what YOU believe?

    I like to think I have half a lick of sense, and yes as I clearly stated, I believe that the conclusion which a lot of people will leap to is that Obama is a closet muslim. That I believe this is what people will conclude does not mean that I make that same conclusion.

    You did check this out, Dave, didn’t you? You did check with the “Tax Policy Institute”, didn’t you, Dave? I’d love to see your citation.

    No, I checked with FactCheck.org which has an excellent page debunking this and other Obama lies and misrepresentations, and it’s non-partisan despite the fact that the two founders are both Democrats. And for the record, Stephie got the name wrong and it’s the Tax Policy CENTER.

    Are there any of you out there in BC land who are inclined not to question?

    I sure wish people out there WOULD question. Question me, question the candidates and look for the facts. I don’t enjoy being the only one doing it.

    Dave is wrong: it’s not a lie but a difference of opinion:

    No, it’s a lie of omission. In representing his plan, Obama eliminated whole groups of people from his calculations. In representing McCain’s plan in other forums he’s done the same thing to make his plan look worse than it is. We’re dealing with MATH here. It’s a lie because Obama knows he’s jiggering the math and acknowledges it when corrected.

    So Stephanopolis is simply citing an outfit that has A DIFFERENT OPINION about how many will be covered, isn’t he, Dave?

    Bliffle, there’s no such thing as a mathematical ‘opinion’. The difference here is not interpretation, it is that Obama chose not to count the impact of his tax plan on an entire segment of the population.

    I looked through it and couldn’t find anything like what Stephanopolis claimed. But maybe it’s somewhere else.

    See my link above to FactCheck.org. They spotted the inconsistency and then had the TPC break down their math to explain it.

    So as usual, I lay out some simple truth and get insulted and abused and then have no problem backing up my statements. I wonder if some day I’ll get an apology. Nah, the arrogance of the left precludes that.

    Dave

  • Robert

    Obama is a creation of the far Left (Communists, Socialists, and Fascists).

  • Cannonshop

    Robert, while that’d be fun if it could be proven (big messy scandals are ALWAYS fun, regardless of party affiliation), and Obama clearly picks from some…interesting…parts of the Left for friendships and Mentoring, I think you’re probably wrong.

    He strikes me as someone with lots of personal charisma, (more than Hillary, at any rate) at a time when the Democratic Party Playbook and Playbill has failed them- the 2004 Election should have been, based on Bush’s approval ratings, general opposition to the Iraq situation, and a string of scandals, the year of Democrat Victory. in Congress, it was, but they tossed their best man against Bush and he got plowed under. It occurs to me that Obama is like Manna from Heaven for the Democrats-he’s pleasant to listen to, handsome, makes a good speech, and doesn’t have thousands of vets who’d like to see him skinned and hung from the barn door. He’s also got the Novelty factor of being a Minority working in his favour, which kills a lot of bad press immediately, and affirms the Party’s line of caring for minorities, and he hasn’t stepped on his dick like Jesse Jackson does from time to time, and he didn’t get tarred with an eight year scandal, making him ‘clean goods’ with the press.

    But to say he’s a “Creation” of the radical fringe is stretching things a bit… He may be sympathetic to their feelings, but he’s likely just a touch smarter than to be wholly coopted by their goofiness.

  • Alec

    Ruvy – RE: I stand by my words Alec. And I’ll be proven right by events.

    Not a chance in Hell. But you also cannot be left off the hook by trying to make a prediction about what may vindicate you in the future. In the hear and now, today, you have slandered Obama’s name without proof, and with a charge that is easily contradicted by his public record. This is an ethical offense in Judaism.

    You over-step the bounds of decency here. Again, I am a bit surprised, and dismayed.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Obama is a creation of the far Left (Communists, Socialists, and Fascists).

    Fascinating. If you look closely enough, can you see the bolts? Is there an old Gothic castle somewhere in the Colorado Rockies, where the storms roll and broil around the peaks and lightning licks the battlements? Is there a lab in the topmost room of the highest tower, where Kim Jong-Il, Hugo Chavez and Josef Mengele are prancing around in white coats among the knobs, dials and vials, screaming, “It’s alive! It’s aliiiive!!!”? Isn’t Joe Biden doing a great job of concealing his hunch…?

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Just a little note: FactCheck.org has an equal listing of McCain’s lies and distortions. Dave didn’t mention it, probably just a – what? A slip of the tongue?

    What do you suppose a “closet muslim” is?

    No Dave, no apology. Numbers can be twisted in any number of ways just like anything else we humans do.

    B

  • bliffle

    Dave slips and slides and tries (unsuccessfully) to slip out of the noose he has made for himself.

    I like to think I have half a lick of sense, and yes as I clearly stated, I believe that the conclusion which a lot of people will leap to is that Obama is a closet muslim. That I believe this is what people will conclude does not mean that I make that same conclusion.

    That’s not what you said Dave. Are you retracting your original statement that “anyone with a lick of sense…” to change it to “a lot of people with a lick of sense…”?

    “anyone” is a Universal. That means YOU TOO, assuming you want to claim you have a “lick of sense”.

    therefore, your own syllogism leads one to conclude that you think Obama is a secret Muslim.

    Unless, of course, you want to maintain that …

    YOU
    DO
    NOT
    HAVE
    A
    LICK
    OF
    SENSE

    watch out Dave! The posse is after you! You must feel the hot breath of their pursuit on your neck.

    Are you sweating?

    Do your hands tremble near the keyboard?

    Soon you will be (metaphorically) hung for your many crimes!

    It was overdue.

  • troll

    ah bliffle……they’ll never catch the midnight rider

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    No, Bliffle. Read what I said again. I did not say that people with a lick of sense will reach the conclusion that Obama is a closet muslim. I said that people with a lick of sense will know what the ‘obvious take’ on the incident is – in other words, will know that people who see only the obvious will conclude Obama is a closet muslim.

    As always, you need to read what I write carefully, even the comments. I don’t throw words around indiscriminately. If you read closely I say exactly what I mean.

    And for the record, Baritone, I believe that a ‘closet muslim’ is just like a closet anything else and I think they should be allowed to marry each other.

    Dave

  • Cannonshop

    Just a little note: FactCheck.org has an equal listing of McCain’s lies and distortions. Dave didn’t mention it, probably just a – what? A slip of the tongue?

    Excellent! one-stop-shopping, and easy to do.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Just for the record, I wrote this article about an interview with Obama, not McCain – therefore there was no need to reference McCain’s FactCheck.org page. If I were just writing something about candidates who spend a lot of time lying I’d start with Joe Biden.

    Dave

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Hey, maybe he’s a closet White Person and is just trying to make us believe he is Black. Yeh, that’s the ticket.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    All right then, Dave, next time McCain has a public brainfart, I’m sure we can expect another deep, searching article on the psychology of it all that ends up making the Senator look like something you found on the bottom of your shoe.

    After all, you only want to be fair, right?

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Yeah Lisa and maybe Palin’s drag queen, and McCain just now found out about and is now stuck.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    You know, I’m still undecided about this, and it may come down to who makes less of a fool of himself.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Cool, Jet, I like it! The more I look at her, the weirder looking she gets. WHAT is with that hair-do????? I think she needs the What Not To Wear people, pronto!!!!

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Lisa… “Will and Grace’s” Karen Walker?

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Jet, I’ve noticed a decided preoccupation with drag queens lately. Shouldn’t you talk to your tailor doctor about it?

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Doc, for the record, I think drag queens are an embarrassment. I’m saying the only kind of woman the right wing would politically back would be a man… dressed up like a woman, and you’ve got to admit she looks the part.

    A woman’s place is in the home raising christun chillen

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    I now have an irresistible mental picture of the VP debate in full flow, and suddenly Austin Powers bursts in, lands Palin a mighty right hook, yanks off her wig and announces to everyone present, “It’s a MAN, baby!”

  • Cannonshop

    “All right then, Dave, next time McCain has a public brainfart, I’m sure we can expect another deep, searching article on the psychology of it all that ends up making the Senator look like something you found on the bottom of your shoe.

    After all, you only want to be fair, right?
    Doc,
    Dave doesn’t have to write it-it’ll be all over the news, the sunday shows, and the internet within hours if not minutes.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    And this wasn’t?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Doc, for the record, I think drag queens are an embarrassment. I’m saying the only kind of woman the right wing would politically back would be a man… dressed up like a woman, and you’ve got to admit she looks the part.

    They could have nominated Giuliani if that’s what they wanted.

    BTW, Jet – how do gay folks feel about straight drag queens like Giuliani? They’re more common than most people realize, but I’ve always wondered if they’re accepted by the gay community.

    Dave

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    yeh but Karen Walker was hysterically funny, Jet, AND a drunk and a drug addict, so hardly a role model for the impressionable youth of our fair land.:)

  • Cannonshop

    “And this wasn’t?”

    Well, Doc, the data was, but Dave’s take on interpreting it? maybe not so much. On the other hand, I’d bet a shiny quarter that McCain’s next serious gaffe will be known within hours as far away as Calcutta’s slums, and people otherwise uninterested there will be able to recite the blunder by memory within an hour.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    But you still have to admit that they could be twins separated at birth, especially with her hair up and those glasses.

  • Cannonshop

    um…Jet, have we already degenerated down to “She’s ugly”? Come on, man. Seriously. Call her a “Lightweight”, dig until you find something that can’t be debunked, or find something about your chosen candidate that is worthy of support and supportable to push with. This ain’t Redstate or the Daily Kos.

    OH, and speaking of neat new and relevant ways to attack the other guy, check THIS out. As a dem, could you enlighten me as to your interpretation of the raw data, ignoring for a moment the slanted article to which it is attached?

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Well Dave, you’re right. You had no obligation to make note of McCain’s lies. That wouldn’t have served your purpose.

    I read through the comprehensive FactCheck.org list recounting McCain’s loathesome lies and distortions and it’s at least as juicy, actually moreso than anything they mention about Obama. This may wind up being a Pandora’s box that you’ll wish you never cracked open.

    Your “outrage” regarding the 14% disparity in the tax relief figures is very noble of you, if a bit over played. I’m sure all those forgotten folks will be very grateful.

    B

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    It’s funny Cannonshop, but I don’t see John McCain’s name on that list. I see Barrys’ name on it though….very telling who’s on the top of that list! Top three, he should be proud!

  • Cannonshop

    Andy, I know what I think about it, I’m really interested to see and read what people who support Obama think about it. If they think it’s bollocks, irrelevant, or if it raises serious (or any) questions about their choice of candidate, and whether he is (forget able) Inclined to deliver on promises of Change and Reform, and how they believe this fits into the picture. We’ve still got the rest of september and October. I’m inclined to keep an open mind about Obama, if I only have a good reason to.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Andy, since John McCain is by his own confession clueless about economics, it’s hardly surprising that he wouldn’t attract much moolah from Freddie and Fannie. As the article accompanying the figures notes, the two companies employ strategy when it comes to giving money to politicians.

    Chris Dodd tops the list because he heads up the Senate’s banking committee. The rest of the top four have all made high-profile runs for the presidency recently. And since none of the GOP presidential front-runners bar McCain are/were in Congress, it’s not surprising that the top of the list is dominated by Democrats.

    And the article also points out that prior to 2006, when the GOP was in charge up on Capitol Hill, the banks gave more money to Republicans.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I would like to see that list too Doc…

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    It’s the one Cannonshop linked to in #106, Andy.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    My bad, I didn’t see the years covered on that list…that tells me that even when the reps had control of the congress these dumber than dirt bankers…and they have to be dumber than dirt to lend money to some of the people they’ve lent money to, have always been in the pocket of the dems!

    Think about it for a minute now, the dems have only had control of the congress for a few years, but they fill out the top five!

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    A couple of the things that list doesn’t tell us:

    1. Top recipients by session of Congress since ’89
    2. Whether the numbers are adjusted for inflation

    I’m not that surprised, actually, if you consider that Freddie and Fannie are representing what they see as the interests of their customers here. Do you think (ideologically speaking) Democrats, or Republicans, would generally lend a more sympathetic ear?

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Andy, you didn’t read the entire article, did you? It is made clear that the Reps topped the list all the while they held sway in Congress and it has only been during the past 2 years that the more Dems have been on top. And read Doc’s comment above. It makes supreme sense.

    B

  • Jordan Richardson

    It’s interesting, just to throw this into the mix, to consider who has actually been investing in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. As you can see, John McCain owns (or owned) more than his fair share in the company.

    Now in terms of contributions, in the case of Obama, aren’t contributions rarely (if ever) made on behalf of the organization. Rather, aren’t contributions typically made via individuals (employees of Fannie and Freddie, for instance) or even from the families of the employees of the company? What is the methodology of retrieving those figures?

    If what it says at the bottom of this page from the same website is correct, then the fact that Fannie and Freddie factors into Obama’s campaign donations may not be all that meaningful, although it is interesting to note that the company throws a slew of money at politicians to get things done their way. One of the many reasons I hold such distrust for corporations and their frequent political involvement, right or left or middle.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I did read the article B-tone, I also saw on the top of that list the dates of, I believe 1989 -2008. That tells me that Barry has received more money in a couple of years than a lot of senators over their careers!

    But then I look at the bottom of the list and it says it’s compiled from 2008 dats…so, I’m still confused.

  • Cannonshop

    #117

    So…the methodology (or presentation) may be questionable?

  • lLumpy

    Damn u libs are running scared. Quick attack the messenger. Don’t let the message get out. Ad hominem super allia!

  • bliffle

    Dave misquotes himself. Is he ashamed of his statement? Here’s his original statement before he spun it twice:

    First off, anyone with half a lick of sense knows that the obvious take on this incident is that Obama secretly IS a muslim and made a slip and revealed it.

    So, do you have “half a lick of sense”?

    Did you make the “obvious take”?

    Do you believe “that Obama secretly IS a muslim and made a slip and revealed it.”?

    So I ask again: do you think Obama is a muslim?
    Or are you trying a variation on the famous Rove “Push polls” of 2000?

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I believe! I believe!!!

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    You guys are going to be so boring after the election when you actually might have to use your brains…

  • Cannonshop

    Jet, I think you’re wrong. I think we’ll go back to arguing science, ethics, culture, and of course Politics-because people NEVER stop gossiping politics.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Cannonshop – What I saw on that list was a little confusing. The dates at the top and the statement at the bottom of it definately confused me.

  • Cannonshop

    Part of the reason I put it up, is that I found the dates a bit confusing at first myself, but I also found the chart somewhat alarming. The Democratic Party took over congress a couple years ago-there was PLENTY of time to start working on restoring order with regard to the mortgage/banking mess, and what I think this chart shows, is that the reason it hasn’t been done, is that both parties are heavily influenced by the same looters and despoilers that brought this mess to a head in the first place.

    But I wanted a second, opposing, opinion (or at least a second opinion from someone inclined to oppose mine) before deciding my hypothesis is essentially correct.

    I was also hoping someone could possibly, in choosing to argue against it, provide me with some counter-information that I might revise my hypothesis or toss it out altogether. As a citizen, voter, and someone inclined to being somewhat active politically, I want to make the best choices I can from the available data, rather than doing what so many people do and just settling on a single party-line based on how I “Feel”.

  • Zedd

    Dave,

    This is silly. It’s a none story. My guess is that you want to put this out so that while it seems as if you are not bringing up the foolish Muslim thing, you are really perpetuating talk about it. Its eye rolling. Your personal Don Quixote-esque mission is childish. It’s time to let it go. The only people that you convince are the dummies that already buy into your kind of thinking anyway.

    Also, sober up, there is nothing wrong with being Muslim. Your caught up in the hysteria of the moment. Let it go.

  • bliffle

    Dave is using innuendo. He wants people to conclude that Obama is a muslim, without sacrificing his pretense of reasonableness and without saying that muslims are inferior.

  • Dave Nalle

    Don’t be silly, Bliffle. There are plenty of people making up silly shit about Obama being a Muslim without me adding to it. I specifically reject that premise in the article. I’m more concerned about REAL problems with Obama.

    Dave