Home / Culture and Society / ObamaCare Passes By Means of Arrogance, Deceit, and Payoffs

ObamaCare Passes By Means of Arrogance, Deceit, and Payoffs

Please Share...Print this pageTweet about this on TwitterShare on Facebook0Share on Google+0Pin on Pinterest0Share on Tumblr0Share on StumbleUpon0Share on Reddit0Email this to someone

"Look at how this bill was written… can you say it was done openly — with transparency and accountability, without backroom deals and struck behind closed doors, hidden from the people? Hell, no you can't!" — House Minority Leader John Boehner on the House floor, March 21, 2010

More appalling than the health care bill itself, was the process which President Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi employed to guarantee a conquest –– one of the biggest entitlement programs and power grabs in our history.

The drama over ObamaCare began with dismissing and devaluing American citizens and their concerns. Criticism was combated with “citizen bashing,” which included terms like racists, stupid, and many other disparaging labels. In the midst of the health care reform hoopla were the ongoing backroom deals that were cut to buy Democratic votes with taxpayer money. Later stages opened up controversy over political procedural issues like reconciliation and the “deem and pass” rule. While Nancy Pelosi didn’t use the “Slaughter Solution” to pass ObamaCare, we learned that she and other Democrats do not have much respect for “the rules” and many are dead set on trampling on our liberties and “slaughtering” our Constitution.

Late Sunday, the ObamaCare push ended the way I had predicted, relying on Bart Stupak, who went from pro-life “hero” to pro-life phony. The once pack of twelve pro-life Democrats that dwindled to five by vote time, were “handled” during the final countdown with a promise of an executive order from the president, which in reality is worthless. And that's not just coming from the right, but directly from the lips of Democrat Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who told Fox News, “[this] executive order can't change the law.” Thanks to the Stupak “sellouts,” ObamaCare passed the House with a 219 to 212 vote (with no Republican support and 34 Democratic “no” votes) and this morning President Obama signed the health care bill, which is now the law of the land.

As a result of the Obama/Pelosi win, they quickly set into motion their “spin machine” (with much more to come) and are touting themselves as the “party that cares.” In both victory speeches they heralded delusional assumptions: Pelosi identified the House actions as “an act of patriotism,” the bill an “all American act,” and that it “honored our Founding Fathers.” Obama declared, amongst other things, that somehow the vote represented the “will of” and was a “victory for" the American people –– wasn't it more like 41%?

Now the Democrats are using rhetoric that doesn't match reality. Their marketing "fairy tale" campaign consists of discrediting criticism of the bill by asserting that those opposed don't care about children with pre-existing conditions, twenty-six-year-olds, and seniors' medications: three immediate benefits, yet, the substance of this glorious law will not take place until 2014. Moreover, they fail to divulge the many, many negative aspects like the mandates, fines and what it will eventually cost taxpayers, the states, and our country as a whole.

Not only did Democratic leaders attempt to deceive the American people with fuzzy math –– a plan that relies on ten years of offsets to pay for only six years of spending –– they failed to add the “doc fix,” which we know changes the numbers entirely and ObamaCare will ultimately explode the deficit. We have also been duped into thinking that student loans have something to do with health care and in the dark of the night, a plan to takeover our student loans was placed in the reconciliation package.

The Senate had an array of sweetheart deals or to put it in more current terms, "cash for votes." Payoffs included $100 million for the Cornhusker Kickback, $300 million for the Louisiana Purchase, $100 million for the Connecticut Hospital, and many more. Of no surprise, the right arm of Obama, SEIU, got their own deal in the Senate bill and was out in full force threatening House Democrats who opposed the bill.

The House Democrats were not exempt from hatching deals of their own: many were "bought off" one way or another. Rep. Dennis Kucinich, who publicly opposed the bill, switched to a "yea" vote after his ride on Air Force One (taxpayer funded, of course). The Hispanic Caucus , who was set to vote against the bill, was appeased by Obama's "renewed commitment to immigration reform."

Shedding light on other ObamaCare bribes –– or just coincidences –– can be found at Code Red Deal Watch and today we find that Stupak was awarded over $700,000 in grants for three airports in his district, two days prior to voting. Another deal was devised and added to the reconciliation package that will benefit a couple of major insurance companies and quite a number of doctor-owned hospitals, which happens to affect Democratic Representatives Marcy Kaptur of Ohio, Paul Kanjorski of Pennsylvania, and Bart Gordon of Tennessee. Coincidentally, a few states got their “pet projects” passed just in time for the House vote like Rep. Alan Boyd’s Florida National Forest Land Adjustment Act of 2009.

More sweetheart deals include Rep. Bart Gordon, who happened to change his vote from “no” to “yes” is set to get $100 million in Medicaid for Tennessee and the two Congressmen from California, Dennis Cardoza and Jim Costa (a fence-sitter), may get an increase in federal water allotment in their districts sooner than anticipated. And there are more.

Today the focus turned toward the Senate to hash out the reconciliation package, AKA "the fix it bill," which was secured by a non-binding, promise letter from Harry Reid. Considering this Senate battle, the unanimous Republican opposition, and continuing American outrage, we can expect more health care drama to unfold.

Did ObamaCare pass by means of corrupt tactics? Hell, yes it did! If ObamaCare is so great, why did the White House and Democratic leaders have to resort to deception and bribe the Democrats in the Senate and the House for their votes? What is apparent is that we have a White House who is governing with arrogance and are only concerned about their political careers and their ideology. What is even clearer is that those on the far left believe and subscribe to Saul Alinksy’s Rules for Radicals where “the ends justify the means.”

In closing and using the words of our president from his victory speech, “This is what change looks like”: the kind of change –– the means and the end –– that we can count on in the future as this White House presses on to impose their radical, socialistic agenda (recently confirmed by Al Sharpton) on the American people.

Powered by

About Christine Lakatos

  • Clarence

    Great Job on this. You really have to wonder how many people actually know what is in this law. We need people like you pointing out the facts since our liberal media fails to do their job.

  • Thanks Clarence.

  • Jordan Richardson

    We need people like you pointing out the facts we want to hear since our liberal media fails to do their job.

    Fixed that for you, Clarence.

  • I have to say, Jordan, that was a good one. Cheers!

  • Christine,

    It was an up or down vote. 219-212. Republicans LOST the VOTE. Nine years ago, George W. Bush used reconciliation to pass $1.3 TRILLION in tax cuts that went mostly to the wealthiest Americans. The Democrats LOST that VOTE.
    Don’t hate the player…hate the game. Besides, if you want things dubbed the “Cornhusker Kickback” and the “Louisiana Purchase”, simply implore your Republicans Senators to vote for the reconciliation fix removing them. If they vote NO, that means they want those things you call “bribery” to remain in the LAW.

    Christine writes:

    “Did ObamaCare pass by means of corrupt tactics? Hell, yes it did! If ObamaCare is so great, why did the White House and Democratic leaders have to resort to deception and bribe the Democrats in the Senate and the House for their votes? What is apparent is that we have a White House who is governing with arrogance and are only concerned about their political careers and their ideology. What is even clearer is that those on the far left believe and subscribe to Saul Alinksy’s Rules for Radicals where “the ends justify the means.”

    45,000 Americans DIE for lack of health insurance. This bill will grant access and save lives. When Republicans held power, they did NOTHING about improving access to health insurance.

    NOTHING, Christine.

    Why did the Democrats use all the procedures AVAILABLE to them? Because the environment created by Conservatives and their Hate Media Empire has poisoned ANY chance for bipartisanship.

    Fox News Tea Parties

    Limbaugh: Obama/ACORN training Black Kids to hate America

    Fox News Attacks Obama 1

    Fox News Attacks Obama 2

    Resulting in Mob Mentality to the point where this recent Harris GOP poll finds:

    ” * 67 percent of Republicans (and 40 percent of Americans overall) believe that Obama is a socialist.
    * 57 percent of Republicans (32 percent overall) believe that Obama is a Muslim
    * 45 percent of Republicans (25 percent overall) agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was “not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president”
    * 38 percent of Republicans (20 percent overall) say that Obama is “doing many of the things that Hitler did”
    * Scariest of all, 24 percent of Republicans (14 percent overall) say that Obama “may be the Antichrist.”

    The Anti-Christ, Christine? Is this what your party has come to? Gun-toting nut jobs, spitting on Black politicians, and hurling slurs at Congressmen? Fired up by Right Winged Hate Media and egged on by unhinged far-right politicians?

    But the Anti-Christ?!? Where would people even get that notion…

    Barack Obama is more than my President. He is my inspiration for rising above this hateful vicious, racist environment to make a positive difference in the lives of MILLIONS of Americans who had nowhere else to turn.

    Change has come to America, and I thank God it did.


  • “wasn’t it more like 41%?”

    Not anymore. Got this from Gallup today:

    “Nearly half of Americans give a thumbs-up to Congress’ passage of a healthcare reform bill last weekend, with 49% calling it “a good thing.” Republicans and Democrats have polar opposite reactions, with independents evenly split.”

    The public is a fickle bunch but this poll says you are now in the minority on the issue.

  • Once you’ve accepted the delusional concept of an impending armageddon it’s not a very big step to start picking out convenient candidates for the role of antichrist. It’s not any crazier than the socialist left hailing Obama as some sort of messiah, after all.

    As for the rest of your bigotry, Cobra, grow up and stop drinking the kool-aid. And BTW, the “Gun-toting nut jobs, spitting on Black politicians, and hurling slurs at Congressmen” never actually happened. There’s video of the event and eye witness reports from the capitol police which show that it was all a lie. But I know you aren’t interested in facts.


  • EB, 49% still isn’t a majority, sorry.


  • Jordan Richardson

    There’s video of the event and eye witness reports from the capitol police which show that it was all a lie

    What event? From what I could tell, Cobra was talking about a general attitude and/or climate of intimidation and not a singular event.

    And really, Dave, if you think your lips aren’t bright fucking blue from hauling ass on the Kool-Aid yourself, you’re more delusional than I thought.

  • zingzing

    wait, what? the teabaggers didn’t release footage to the media of teabaggers spitting on congressmen and calling them “niggers” and “faggots?” SHOCKckkckckckck… oh my. the teabaggers have footage of teabaggers not being racist, homophobic assholes? A-SHOCKAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHHA. haha. stop that. it tickles.

  • zingzing

    dave: “EB, 49% still isn’t a majority, sorry.”

    you’re kidding, right? come on. statistics. polls. if you want to use them to prove your point on lesser majorities, and then a poll comes out that beats yours, and you want to discount the idea of them altogether? boo. foul. dave. like someone took a poop in your backyard motherfuckin’ pool.

  • Arch Conservative

    “Don’t hate the player…hate the game.”

    Spoken with all the maturity and elegance of a typical Obamabot. I’m surprised Barry himself hasn’t yet utter those very words.

    There’s only one problem with all of the rah rah cheerleading of this bill and the touting of the alleged support. Massachusetts. The “one” himself could not even help Martha Coakley in bluetopia to make it across the finish line to replace the “liberal Lion of the Senate.” Democrats and their supporters are routinely dismissing the anger and the opposition as if it will not be coming back to bite them in the ass. Big mistake.

    While Obama and Pelosi have been spreading lies about this monstrous power grab cloaked under the guise of healthcare reform, the GOP has been grooming candidates and winning elections. When the president himself starts striking out on the campaign trail for Dems and ultimately cannot deliver Ted Kennedy’s seat in Massafreakinchusetts then you know you’re in trouble.

    There’s most definitely blood in the water. Despite all of the bullshit lies being offered up on this site and in the public at large about support for this bill, the majority of Americans do oppose it and they will make their voices heard come November. Until then feel free to enjoy your bliss Obots.

  • Retweeted. Great article, Christine. It’s amazing the lengths the left will go to push their agenda through.

  • Thanks B!

  • Clavos

    Antichrist, schmantichrist. The world sorely needs a good Antichrist, but it ain’t obama, he’s far too goody-two-shoes, butter-wouldn’t-melt-in-his-mouth for the job.

    John Edwards. Now there’s an excellent candidate.

  • zing-zing,

    Dave’s not stupid. Partisan? Quite a bit more often than he’s willing to admit, but not stupid.

    Dave KNOWS that a simple You Tube Search on “Tea Party racism”, or “McCain/Palin rally hate” will pull up the undeniable. Dave knows that there are right winged blogs, and hate radio stoking the fires.

    He knows it. Christine knows it, too. You notice she has NO RESPONSE to anything I linked, either. What they also know is that the GOP is so damaged–so demoralized that they can’t afford to kick out ANY of their fringe elements. They need all hands on deck, because the traditional demographic base that elected Reagan is much less of a proportion of the electorate.

    The GOP can’t run on ‘fiscal responsibility”. George W. Bush and the GOP controlled congress destroyed that platform.
    That’s why they’ll turn a blind eye and wink at the mythology that Obama is “Hitler”, “Socialist”, “Muslim” or the “Anti-Christ”, because they can’t run on how they governed the country from 2001-2008.
    The only age demo that John McCain won outright in 2008 was older Americans. This health care bill made will remove Medicare co-pays and cut the cost of name-brand prescription drugs in half for seniors. Try to run on “repealing” that, and watch the GOP lose even THAT group.

    I double-dog DARE the GOP to run on repealing this bill.

    All they have left is hate, Zing.


  • Clavos

    45,000 Americans DIE for lack of health insurance.

    In what length of time?

    According to whom?

    My wife had so-called “cadillac” insurance, and damned if she didn’t die anyway. Must not be a panacea.

    How is it proven they die because of a lack of insurance? Do we not have charity hospitals which by law treat indigents and the uninsured for free?

    I read somewhere we’re all gonna die. Any truth to that?

    45,000 die, allegedly because of a lack of insurance, in an indeterminate amount of time. Meanwhile, 12 million are out of work. How come we didn’t focus on and fix that first?

  • Clavos: Still think about you and the loss of your wife. You doing okay?

    That said: ObamaCare is really health insurance reform. And since when did health insurance become a “right”: it is a service.

    Real health care reform would focus more on prevention of chronic diseases; thus a better chance of a longer, healthier life. Unfortunately, Clavos, you are right: we all die, weather we have health insurance or not. And weather we are healthy or not.

  • Mark

    Clavos, other than ‘cutting taxes’ in a misguided attempt to stimulate hiring, what can this administration do to ‘fix’ unemployment?

  • We’re all gonna die, Clav? Really?

    Just because the Republicans have been fiscally irresponsible doesn’t make it all right for the Democrats to push through a bill that will bankrupt my great-grandchildren. (I don’t even have the grandchildren yet, that’s how far down I’m thinking.)

    Here’s what I know in my future: no retirement in sunny Florida (or anywhere else), no social security, no medicare, possibly no business, no means of employment because I’m a senior citizen, nothing to leave the kids and possible jail time because I can’t afford the health insurance. It’s all good though, because 30M other people will have health insurance. Poppycock! Congress could have given those people the money to buy their own and it would have been less expensive.

    I have one thing to look forward to and that’s the death Clav so insightfully informed us we will approach. Oh sweet relief!

  • Clavos

    Cobra, in #16, has revealed (albeit unintentionally) the real motivation behind the Democrat politicians’ fervor to propose and pass this execrable legislation:


  • Clavos

    Thanks, Christine. Yes, all things considered, I’m doing well.

  • Clavos

    We’re all gonna die, Clav? Really?

    That’s what I’ve heard Joanne. The rumor is so pervasive that there must be some truth to it.

    But, at least now we’ll die insured.

    Broke, but insured.

  • Mark

    Congress could have given those people the money to buy their own and it would have been less expensive.

    Best point so far.

  • Clavos

    Well, for starters, Mark, how about some sort of WPA-style make-work.

    Isn’t the infrastructure crumbling?

  • Mark

    30 million x 12,000 = 360 billion

  • Congress could have given those people the money to buy their own and it would have been less expensive.

    They didn’t because this is not about health care: it is about control. Remember, this is the pathway to a single payer system.

  • Mark

    #25 – damned socialist

    Seems to me that the administration has bet its stack on the private sector for job creation (so far). Wouldn’t a WPA require unacceptable tax and debt increases?

  • Deano


    Just to echo Christine’s comments – hope you are doing well!

    As for the rest of the article – to paraphrase Louis from Casablance…”I’m shocked, shocked, to find politics if going on here!”

    Why is it a horrific and surprising thing that Obama and the Dems did what they were allowed to do? This is politics – you use the legislative tools at your disposal to advance your political agenda – GWB and GOP did, the Dems did…why is this a surprise? It’s only been going on in some way shape or form since Babylon.

    That’s what politics is.

  • Mark

    And given the adage that ‘everything is political’ one can hardly be surprised at our ‘corrupt’ social relationships in all spheres…that’s what politics is.

  • Baronius

    Clavos, I hadn’t heard about your wife. I’m terribly sorry. You’re both in my prayers.

  • Clavos

    Wouldn’t a WPA require unacceptable tax and debt increases?

    Both of which we’re getting anyway. At least rebuilding the infrastructure would produce a tangible benefit for ALL the people; what we’ve got does nothing for most of us except impose more onerous obligations, and as Christine says, ever more control of what should be private decisions.

    We could have solved the real problems (the uninsured, portability and pre-existing conditions, etc.) without this massive intrusion by the inept class into everyone’s lives, and for a lot less expense.

    Welcome to Utopia. Or is it Dystopia?

  • Clavos

    Thank you Deano and Baronius. It wasn’t unexpected, but one is never really prepared to lose one’s best friend of 42 years.

    Thanks to the overwhelming support I’ve received from so many people, including the good folks here on BC, I’m weathering it fairly well.

  • zingzing

    clavos, #21. REALLY?

  • zingzing

    clavos, #25. REALLY?!!

  • zingzing

    christine: “They didn’t because this is not about health care: it is about control. Remember, this is the pathway to TOTAL DOMINATION AND ENSLAVEMENT.”

    there. fixed that for you. you don’t have to hide behind a human skin if the monster wants to come out.

  • Mark

    Clavos, I would think that you would object to putting the ‘inept class’ in charge of supervising rebuilding our infrastructure…?

  • Zing: sorry to disappoint you but I am not one of those on the far right that thinks Obama is the anti-christ NOR the far left that thinks he is the messiah. But he is bad news!

  • zingzing

    you just say that when the left is marching war of the worlds style, whipping righty’s ass.

  • Baronius

    I figure that the Antichrist would be smarter. I mean, sure, more evil too. But more articulate. More substantive. Not so long-winded and prissy. More of a big-picture guy.

  • The country was moving in that direction, Christine. It it weren’t for Obama, there would be Hillary; and she’d be just as “progressive,” I bet, as Obama comes across: it was simply a matter of reaction to Wall Street excesses.

    And now, the pendulum may be swinging the other way, so yes, your party is about to have its day again.

    I hope you won’t be too disappointed when that happens.

  • Antichrist more substantive? That’s a new one.

    I’ve always thought he’d be as seductive as the devil himself – nothing but pretty words and promises of the pie in the sky.

  • Deano

    Yup, I agree with Baronius. My expectations of an Antichrist would be much, much higher than Obama.

    I mean, honestly, the Antichrist wouldn’t have so badly flubbed ushering this makeshift and tepid health care bill through, I mean an Antichrist version would have been much more grandiose and smooth, AS smooth as an expensive laxative (obviously paid for by your tax doallars at work)!


  • Baronius

    I just mean that I can’t picture Obama inspiring people to great evil. He inspires people to sit around and wait for government checks.

    If some kids were at a movie theater, throwing popcorn at the Antichrist’s head, he’d destroy them. Obama would complain to the usher.

  • Mark

    I’ve got a couple of tickets to DEATHMATCH 2010 – Patel vrs Obama that I’d be willing to part with at the right price.

  • zingzing

    ah, what ever happened to the “he’s a muslim terrorist who wants to destroy america?”

  • YOU guys are too funny!

  • DEATHMATCH 2010 – Patel vrs Obama

    The Antichrist’s name is Patel?

    Well, that narrows it down…

  • I’ve read articles that were more insulting to my intelligence, but not many. Why did you retype The republican’t party talking points instead of using your own words?

  • If I recall, didn’t the far-left call Bush the antichrist (doesn’t deserve a capital)? And according to scripture (which I believe in) I think the antichrist comes out of the European Union.

  • Clavos, I don’t pray very often any more, but I will for you… my condolences friend

  • Mark

    C’mon Jet. It’s a formula piece — follows the Nalle Rx for political reporting; you sorta gotta go with it.

  • Come November the voters will notice that the sky didn’t fall… That I’m sure of, then the GOP will have egg all over their faces.

  • Jet, I don’t know the REP talking points, just my opinion based on what I have been observing. And if your intelligence is so insulted, PLEASE don’t read my articles because all you do in insult me no matter what. And it is getting very old!

  • matt

    Well, you certainly word it in a way that sounds like these deals were related to passing this bill. But are you sure that they were? The ‘kickbacks’ for stupak for some dumptrucks and for some fencing wasn’t related. Would he really change is pro-life vote over 700K for something for his home-state airports? And, by the way, this benefit was given to SEVERAL states for imporvements to several airports. Repub and Dems.

    The 100 million for tenessee was related to the fact that the federal DSH payments (that help compensate hospitals that treat large numbers of Medicaid and uninsured patients) was due to the state for Tenessee and Hawaii. They are the only two states that don’t have this permanent allotment.

    I would recommend you spend a little more time looking into each one of these accusations before spreading misleading and wrong information.

    It’s hard for me to take your article seriously when I know at least some of your accusations are dead wrong.

  • Christine appears to be able to dish it out, but not take it…

    of course that’s one hypocrite to another.

  • Mark

    Dreadful #48, just the opposite. You’ve not heard that the messiah is in the house? Raj Patel, rah, rah, rah

  • zingzing

    christine: “If I recall, didn’t the far-left call Bush the antichrist?”

    yeah, but the far left wasn’t fool enough to actually believe all that mumbo jumbo. i wonder if the far right is actually preparing for the end of days… what a bunch of whackjobs.

  • Jet, the point is why bother reading my stuff when it is obvious that you don’t like me or what I write..EVER! Why torture yourself like that? It makes no sense.

  • zingzing

    christine, do you only read the stuff you want to hear by people you like?

  • Zing,

    You know…those Muslim, birther, Bill Ayers cards didn’t work in 2008.
    The “Socialist” “Marxist” cards didn’t work to stop the stimulus.

    The “Hitler” Card didn’t work to stop Health Care Reform, and only 38% percent of Republicans believe it.

    I guess the GOP has no choice but call Obama the Son of Satan.
    I mean, he does bear the “mark of Cain” already, right? And even if he’s not the “official” Antichrist, Obama certainly had to make some kind of deal with the Devil in order to rise to where he is from where he came from. It all makes sense now.


    This poll confirms it. There’s no doubt that we’re All living in Glennbeckistan now.


  • The thing I’ll remember most about this is video of Republican politians at the capital building egging on their flunky Tea Baggers while they yelled “Faggot” and “nigger” at congressmen for the cameras and their complete lack of manners, decorum and protocol while shouting “baby killer” on the House Floor.

    Nor will I forget the heroine of the GOP Sarah Palin becoming an embarrassment by shopping around a lame reality entertainment show to the Discover Channel after she realized no one will take her seriously as a politician after becoming a spokesperson for those very same teabaggers.

    I’d rather live in a Democracy with assholes screaming their ridiculous catchphrase “socialist!!!” because the think that if you tell a lie often enough and loud enough it becomes true, than to live in a right wing of the holder of the bank loan for the war debt that Bush ran up-the Republic of China… The Republic of The United States-has a nice ring to it.

    Don’t forget-as the voters won’t that the economy dumped while Bush wrote blank checks to Haliburton and looked the other way while wall street crashed screwing the country out of their 401ks.

    You might also want to check the ratio of how many times the GOP used reconciliation to shove something down our throats vs how many times the Democrats did before you start screaming hypocritically “UNFAIR!!!!”

    I give my facts as opinions,
    unlike some who give their opinions as facts

  • As I recall Bush was the one claiming that God caused him to be elected… if that wasn’t a sign of the antichrist, I don’t know what is.

  • Of course it does look, Christine, as though this healthcare bill is all about government takeover. But surely, don’t you think it’s an understandable reaction in view of the abuses in the private sector?

    Not that these abuses have been eliminated and will cease to be. This bill has been compromised from the very start.

    But such has become the reality of present day politics. Private and public interests are no longer reconcilable. Consequently, all you’re going to get is a half-ass, patch-work job, a bandaid – in short, a snow job.

  • Bush did get into into two stupid wars, didn’t he – no thanks to the rather evenly divided Congress.

  • Baronius

    Jet – I still can’t find that video.

  • Christine, why do I read your stuff if I don’t like it??? We liberals listen to all sides before forming an opinion-which is more than you can say.

    My favorite political author is Dave Nalle-because he doesn’t talk down to people and respects them-even if they completely disagree with them… like I do. You should follow his example.

    Why do I keep reading you? It’s sort of why right-wingers listen to Howard Stern… or why liberals listen to Rush Limbaugh… to have a good laugh at how far you push the limits of ridiculousness before someone call you on it.

  • Well that’s because it wasn’t broadcast on Fox Baronius… try NBC or CNN sometime

  • Well, in all fairness to Christine, she is opining based on the information she receives from providers she trusts. Therein lies the first flaw. Those on the Right who adhere to the Right’s doctrine are in for a rude awakening. This health care “reform” isn’t going to do a damn thing. It’s tepid at best. For the Right this is less about health care and more about demonizing Barack Obama. They have the same zeal for booting him out of office as they did for Bill Clinton. No matter how one tries to reason with the Right, one cannot get past this simple, fact based truth.

    Now to the Left who has made the Presidency of Barack Obama a living hell. They, also, have been feeding their respective base with the reciprocal amount of zeal. They’re so ravaged by the mismanagement of this country during the Bush years that they refuse to recognize there are Republican positions out there which not only deserve to be discussed but must be made law. The Democrats in Congress put on a great show in their support for the President. But behind the scenes they view him with a thinly-veiled contempt and would welcome the opportunity to see him exit the Oval Office. You see, my friends, he most definitely stands in the way of his party’s leadership agenda. That’s what the MSM fails to report, so that we can decide.

    If you don’t believe me, start watching what is happening in Israel. regardless of how you may view my friend Ruvy, say a little prayer for him and his family tonight. The people of Israel are about to embark on a very violent course and I don’t wish that on anyone.

    So long as the fringes on both sides fuels the fires of division, there is NO hope for this Republic. Don’t you people get that simple little fact? I’ve been watching comments made by both sides via Twitter and other social media and am outraged at the tenor and downright misrepresentations both sides are making. Folks, John Boehner is as slimy as Nancy Pelosi. The member of Congress from Texas who shouted “baby killer” is raking in the dough – just as I predicted. He’s being funded by the Radical Right at a feverish pitch. Sorry, there’s that problem again – it’s called CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM.

    If I were in the Democrat Leadership, I would be aggressive, spiteful and downright obstinate. I would look to the members across the aisle and say a simple “fuck you”. End of story. The problem is the Democrats have no spine. They’re all spin and don’t give a rat’s ass about what the next 50 years can bring. They live in the present, swelling their bank accounts, eating fine foods and going on junkets that we can only dream of. The same occurs on the Right. The Republicans seem to have the “fire and brimstone” thing down pat but they suffer the same malaise.

    If we want to get past all this division, there is an answer. Crush both major political parties. Republicans are controlled by a band of Judeo-Christian nut bags who refuse to accept that the United States is a SECULAR nation. They will move Heaven and Earth to make us a Christian Republic and that is far more dangerous than two jets crashing in to the World Trade Center. Meanwhile, on the Left, it’s controlled by a band of self serving semi-Socialists who say they’re all for the common man but would be happy to maintain the status quo on being funded by labor unions and rabid Leftists who want the government to fulfill their every desire. Both sides are a sham. So shut off your damned televisions. Tune out from MSNBC and FOX. Start digging for yourselves. Unless you people seek, you shall never find. And when you arrive at the point to do your own digging, it will be your grave which the powers that be will throw you in to at the end of the day.

  • “Start digging for yourselves.”

    Good advice, I suppose. I’d say, start thinking for yourself.

  • Here’s your video Baronius, complete with GOP heroes egging them on from the Capical balcony

    click here

  • oooops got the directory instead of the video…Click here click here

  • cannonshop

    #62 Jet, if it happened, and there’s video of it?

    I wanna see the video. Can you link it?

  • I JUST DID cannon-#72

  • Indeed, Roger. We’re on the verge of Civil War. The Right fringe is well armed. The lives of Democrats members of Congress have been threatened to a new extreme. The behavior and epithets yelled out by Tea Parties at protests last weekend are intolerable. Meanwhile those on the Left are all for gun control and other measures to control the potential for violence. Silly little people. Leftists better stock up on rations and weaponry. There’s a storm brewing and there ain’t nothing we can do to stop it short of Christ’s return on Track 6.

    Before any lives are sacrificed in this divisive debate I think we really need to think about dissolving the nation. Give the far Right all the desert land and the center of the continent. Their God will lead them out of the wilderness. In the meantime I think I’ll give real consideration to emigrating to Australia. At least there’s a lot of land and beer.

  • Here’s another shorter one from ABC news if you still doubt. click here

    Note the republican politicians egging on the teabaggers from the capital balcony

  • The subject speaking in #76 by the way is a former Bush Speech writer…

  • Baronius

    Jet, the one video had Rep. Clyburn saying that he didn’t hear any slurs. The other had David Frum being called a conservative leader, which shows how little ABC News knows. Neither of them, or the first five in your original comment, had the clip you claimed to have seen. Admit it, when you said that you’ll always remember the video, it was something you’ve never seen.

  • Perhaps you’re right, Silas, we ought to split the fucking Union, or disunion, which it has become of late.

    Reminds me of Marcus Garvy’s call to give African-Americans a number of states all their own, reminiscent of the way we handled the Native Americans by affording them their reservations.

    See, we don’t need another Civil War. Let’s just give the rednecks a territory all their own. I bet you, though, if and once we do, they’ll all stew in their own juice.

    Emigrating to Australia doesn’t sound like a bad idea. If I was younger, I’d definitely consider it.

    Now, for example, on C-Span 2, the Reps are arguing against direct government student loans. They’re all so deep in the pockets of financial institutions that they can’t even think straight.

    When will they ever learn?

  • zingzing

    you see this little gem from frum (from frum… i like that…): “Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us and now we’re discovering we work for Fox. And this balance here has been completely reversed. The thing that sustains a strong Fox network is the thing that undermines a strong Republican party.”

    and while i haven’t seen any video, that’s not to say it didn’t happen, or those videos don’t exist. i also DID see another video from the day of the vote (or was it the day before the vote?) where you can distinctly hear someone yell “nigger” at a black woman (not sure who she was, but the crowd thought it best to yell at her…) amongst all the other taunts and tom-hickery. there’s also not another black person in sight throughout the video, but there were many edits, so i’d bet there might have been on there (other than the one they call names).

    what with everything that has occurred over the last year, if you didn’t see this day coming (not that it’s unique in any real way), you’re just a fool.

  • The video I saw was on NBC which doesn’t seem to be on u-tube. You didn’t believe there were any videos on the subject, so I produced two, then since you didn’t actually hear the words that I heard on NBC you call me a liar and delusional again.

    I know what I saw, along with millions of other americans who watched that night.

  • Baronius

    The way the press and some BC commenters have made it sound, there were crowds chanting racial slurs. Given how badly some people want the Tea Partiers to be racists, I’m guessing that 1-3 people said something offensive.

  • Along the same line of thinking, Silas, here’s a good one, a threat against Stupak and family for supposedly “caving in.”

    We have surely progressed as a nation.

  • Want to believe they’re racists?

    They are fucking racists.

  • They’ll never learn, Roger. The GOP is morphing in to a hybrid of Hitler’s Nazi Party and Mussolini’s Fascist Party. Of course, the whack jobs on the Right won’t realize that simple premise because they’re too busy convinced they’re doing God’s work. Meanwhile, on the Left, the Democrats are a hybrid of the Russian Bolsheviks and Mao’s Red Book. It’s one giant cluster fuck where the rest of us are squeezed in between.

    So, let’s think about dissolution. Here’s how I would split it up:

    NEW ENGLAND – Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York.

    Capitol: Boston
    Government: Republic
    First President: Michael Bloomberg

    CHIPPEWA: Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Kentucky, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Delware, Maryland, West Virginia, Virgina, New Jersey and DC.

    Capitol: Washington, DC
    Government: Republic
    First President: Rod Blagojevich

    ALAPPIPPI: Missouri, Arkansas, Louisiana, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida.

    Capitol: Atlanta
    Government: Republic
    First President: Jeb Bush

    TEXAS: Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Arizona

    Capitol: Oklahoma City
    Government: Christian Republic
    First President: Rick Perry
    Spiritual Leader: Fred Phelps

    NEW NEPHI: Utah, Colorado, Kansas, Idaho, Montana, Wayoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska

    Capitol: Salt Lake City
    Government: Mormon Constitutional Monarchy
    Royal Family: The House of Romney
    Grand Mullah: Prophet of the Mormon Church

    NEW ESPANA: Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada

    Capitol: Las Vegas
    Government: Republic
    First President: Arnold Schwarzenegger

    Alaska to be absorbed by Canada. Hawaii to be given to China as payment to the debt we owe.

  • zingzing

    wow, those threats are great. that long bleep at the end of the first one must have been a brilliant stream of cussin’. “bleed out your ass, get cancer and die” is another favorite. the others aren’t so creative. except “and god… bastard.” that one’s cool too.

  • And if Florida doesn’t become part of Alappippi, it can be a sovereign nation with Miami as the Capitol and the government being a Hebrew Republic. The first President? Benjamin Netanyahu.

  • Full of zingers, eh, zing? If the GOP Leadership doesn’t denounce what these people are doing soon there will be blood spilled on the streets. The vitriol is growing. Time to put valium in the water.

  • Tea Party Leader, GOP Condemn Racial Slurs Hurled at Black Lawmakers


    …The incident occurred Saturday after thousands of Tea Partiers descended upon Capitol Hill to rally against Sunday’s major vote on health care reform.

    Some of the protesters targeted a handful of black members of Congress and one gay lawmaker as they walked from the House office buildings to the Capitol to make a procedural vote.

    Reps. John Lewis, D-Ga, and Andre Carson, D-Ind., both members of the Congressional Black Caucus, said that a group of protesters hollered at them and called them the N-word.

    “They were just shouting. Harassing,” Lewis told Fox News. “People being downright mean.”

    Kristie Greco, spokeswoman for Democratic Whip Jim Clyburn, said a protester spit on Rep. Emanuel Cleaver who is black and said police escorted the lawmakers into the Capitol. Cleaver’s office said he would decline to press charges, but Sgt. Kimberly Schneider of the U.S. Capitol Police said in an e-mail later: “We did not make any arrests today.”

    Clyburn, who led fellow black students in integrating South Carolina’s public facilities a half century ago, called the behavior “absolutely shocking.”

    “I heard people saying things today that I have not heard since March 15, 1960, when I was marching to try to get off the back of the bus,” Clyburn told reporters.

    Lewis was one of the most pivotal figures of the civil rights movement in the 1960s. He spoke alongside the Rev. Martin Luther King at the Lincoln Memorial during the “I Have a Dream” speech. And Alabama State Police fractured the congressman’s skull as he led a march across the Edmund Pettus Bridge on what became known as “Bloody Sunday” in 1965.

    “It’s okay, I’ve faced this before,” Lewis told Fox News about the incident. “I haven’t heard anything like this in 40, 45 years. Since the march to Selma, really.”

    Carson is one of only two Muslims in Congress and was born nine years after “Bloody Sunday.” Carson conceded he wasn’t used to hearing such epithets.

    “The beauty is that I was walking with a good sage who had been there before,” Carson said, who with Lewis at the time.

    First elected in 1970, Rep. Charlie Rangel, D-N.Y., is one of the founding members of the Congressional Black Caucus.

    “You don’t see any black folks in these groups,” said Rangel. “Ever, ever, ever, ever, ever.”

    Rangel suggested that some of the protesters knew Lewis’ story and deliberately went after him.

    “They knew what he represented,” he told Fox News.

    Fellow CBC member Rep. Bobby Scott, D-Va., said nothing would surprise him from some of the bands of health care protesters.

    “I have never heard anyone campaign for their freedom to be uninsured. I’ve never heard anyone campaign against Medicare,” said Scott. “That’s what you’re dealing with.”

    But black lawmakers weren’t the only targets of the protesters’ invective. Rep. Joe Crowley, D-N.Y., alleges some of the demonstrators also castigated Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., who is gay.

    “I don’t even want to repeat it,” said Crowley when asked what they said to Frank.

  • Jet, among what Barney was slammed with was “fag”, “faggot”, “homo”, “I hope you get fucked in your ass ’til you bleed and die”. “Nigger” was shouted at many Black people wading through the crowds. These White Trash bigoted closet bottom feeding homerseckshuls should just shut up and go home. Enough is enough. They have kidnapped the GOP and the Leadership is impotent to take control back. If civility cannot be restored, it is incumbent on us to make a radical decision. The GOP is no longer the party of Lincoln.

  • John Wilson

    According to
    latest gallup polls

    Gallup: Healthcare reform a ‘political victory’ for Obama

    Gallup’s latest poll on healthcare reform, conducted after the bill’s passage, shows almost half the public approving. …

    By Linda Feldmann, Staff writer / March 24, 2010

    One poll does not a trend make, but Gallup has some good news for President Obama: Its first poll on healthcare reform since Congress passed legislation late Sunday shows nearly half the American public approving.

    Some 49 percent of American adults called the new law “a good thing,” compared with 40 percent who called it a “bad thing.”

    Two weeks before the congressional vote, Gallup found 45 percent of Americans favored passage and 48 percent opposed.
    In the latest results, Gallup sees “a clear political victory” for Mr. Obama and his allies in Congress.

  • Well, Mr. Wilson, those poll results will put the Right into a collective convulsion. It gonna be ugly.

  • But according to Baronius, the apologist, these people are exceptions.

    Most are reasonable, honorable Americans.

  • And Larry Craig is a God fearing heterosexual.

  • I’m sure Baronius thinks the same thing about ACORN doesn’t he? Just because a couple are bad doesn’t mean the whole groupe is…. right?

  • Damn Roger, I keep forgetting I’m not supposed to comment on other people’s threads… I better leave now.

    sorry for the interuption

  • Jet? Have I told you today how much I adore you?

  • zingzing

    oh, it goes on: “In the Periello case, an activist named Mike Troxel of the Lynchburg Tea Party wrote a blog post telling activists to add a “personal touch” to their anger at Periello — who voted yes on the health care bill — by going to his house. But Troxel mistakenly posted the address of Periello’s brother.” the activists, or an activist, cut his gas line, which, you know, can kill people.

    “Another tea party activist who reportedly posted Periello’s brother’s address online, Nigel Coleman of the Danville Tea Party, wrote in a blog comment after learning about the mistaken address: “Do you mean I posted his brother’s address on my Facebook? Oh well, collateral damage.””


  • Gallup’s latest poll on healthcare reform, conducted after the bill’s passage, shows almost half the public approving. Nearly 4 in 5 Republicans, however, are ‘angry’ or ‘disappointed.’

    : ) I’m part of the approving public! Hey Christine…

  • Cut it out, Jet. I’m sure happy you’re feeling frisky.

  • I’d beg to differ. Different standards apply.

  • “EB, 49% still isn’t a majority, sorry.”

    Never said it although it was more accurate and more recent than the figures Christine used in her article, sorry. But never let it be said you let the facts get in the way of something you disagree with.

  • The American people continue to suffer the collateral damage of the games played between the two major parties. And we continue to do nothing by accepting the respective party platforms as Gospel for our respective cause. I just realized something. For months I have been talking about corporations and financial institutions being “too big to fail”. The United States has become so big, it has no alternative but to fail.

  • “EB, 49% still isn’t a majority, sorry.”

    But it made G.W. Bush President and set the course of our own self destruction.

  • “My favorite political author is Dave Nalle-because he doesn’t talk down to people and respects them-even if they completely disagree with them… like I do.”

    You might want to work on that reading comprehension, Jet.

  • Oh my gosh, EL, can we just say that our country is evenly (or close to) divided on this issue and call it a day! The poll I used was directly prior to the vote, so it was correct. How could I use any other numbers when the new ones were after the fact and just came out?

    As far as the HC benefits stated in my article; it looks like Congress messed up: children with pre-existing conditions DON’T get covered an senior meds until 2011 or later (two key selling points). Dems are trying to work on the language in the bill to fix it. (Guess they didn’t read the bill after all, or at least that part).

  • They didn’t have time to read the bill or have it converted into pictures, Christine. Everybody was too busy endorsing their political contribution checks. And besides, after watching hours of CSPAN coverage this week I am convinced that the contributors here at Blogcritics have more common sense and higher IQs than 99.99999% of the sitting Congress. Virginia Fox is their baseline, for Pete’s sake.

  • Silas; WOW! In our conversation on Blog Talk Radio, I told you that I also watch Olbermann, Maddow and Chris Mathews, Schuster, and others, and I even like that guy Ratigan. Also, watch all the Sunday shows like Face the Nation, State of the Union and Fox News Sunday.

    Also told you that I LOVE (maybe it is crush, not for the news…lol) Don Lemon of CNN. So, not sure what you mean by where I get my information and who I trust. Kind of taken back by that one.

    Don’t have time to spell check the pundits names.

  • Christine,

    I beg to differ,

    children with pre-existing conditions DON’T get covered an senior meds until 2011 or later

    NO DISCRIMINATION AGAINST CHILDREN WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS—Prohibits health plans from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions. Effective 6 months after enactment.

    (Beginning in 2014, this prohibition would apply to adults as well.)

  • That’s right, Christine, so I shall make a slight amendment. What I should have said was that the argument is flawed because neither side really knows the ramifications of this legislation. It’s just too damn big to sort out all of the little intricacies. So we just get the buzz words which resonate with the general public’s feeble mind. I have just skimmed the bill and don’t know enough of the minutiae to make a comment except to say that I continue to believe we need massive overhaul of health care and this legislation just redistributes the wealth without breaking the system.

  • P.S. We BOTH love Don Lemon, that is true! But I never viewed him as a biased journalist. Am I missing something?

  • “Oh my gosh, EL, can we just say that our country is evenly (or close to) divided on this issue and call it a day!”

    You can say whatever you like, Christine. I just find it interesting that people try to use polls when they support their point and then dismiss them when they contradict.

    “How could I use any other numbers when the new ones were after the fact and just came out?”

    After what fact? The bill was passed Sunday. The new poll was conducted Monday. Your article was published Tuesday evening. And it didn’t take me long to find the new poll. Went straight to Gallup to see what they had.

  • zingzing

    christine: “I even like that guy Ratigan.”

    ratigan? good god i hadn’t thought about him in forever.

  • Arch Conservative

    Wow I guess you all must have been asleep for the last eight years when so called peaceful, tolerant liberals were comparing Bush to hitler, pondering and joking about his assassination, calling Michelle Malkin a slanty eyed gook, calling Clarence Thomas, uncle tom, house nigger and oreo cookie, perpetrating fake hate crimes.

  • Well, Arch, for the record… I denounced commentary against W. during Iraq. For a brief moment I even agreed with the ABC firing of Bill Maher. What I failed to understand is that the Bush Administration was centralizing their power in Washington. George W. Bush is no Adolf Hitler. Heck, he’s not even Mussolini. He’s more like one of his uncles — The Saudi King.

  • El, not dismissing them in the least. Just pointing out that half the country was against and half the country for. Meaning when the Prez and Pelosi tout that they “heard the people”: they should say half. My point also was that they voted on a bill that was unpopular by a majority at the time they voted.
    Context is key.

    Yes, it has a jump now and time will tell how it all pans out.

    Jeannie: That was NEWS today and Dems were on TV saying they are fixing.

  • Gotto go, I have John Boehner locked in my tanning bed and gotta go get him out because I need some more talking points. Chat later!

  • Dear God, Christine, don’t tell me you find Boehner attractive. What about Eric Cantor? Now there’s a hottie for you. Personally I think the finest Conservative pundit on the male side is Joe Scarborough. On the female side it’s Ann Coulter hands down. On the Left pundit side my votes go to Rachel Maddow for both genders.

  • zingzing

    ew ann coulter… she’s all wirey and strange. like someone stretched her out and she didn’t quite spring back all the way.

  • Arch Conservative

    C’mon Silas….there’s no finder specimen of either gender on either side of the aisle in Washington than Al Franken.

  • There mere thought, Arch, is enough to make me celibate. If you had said John Edwards, I would take pause.

    And, zing, don’t count Coulter out. The more Conservative a woman is in public the higher the prospect that she’s a wanton in the boudoir. She seeps sexuality through every pore.

    But back to the subject at hand. While many are looking at Obama as arrogant, I think the award should go to John Boehner with Nancy Pelosi as runner-up and Eric Cantor as Miss Congeniality.

  • John Wilson

    If one leaves out the 11% with no opinion (as abstainers), then the Obama favorability percentage is 55% of voters, and opposing is 45%, which looks like a clear victory.

  • When will we open our eyes and see what’s happening here? There are members of Congress who have been threatened. Home addresses and their families are being exposed and things are getting ugly. The GOP Leadership must put a stop to this terror.

    A courageous President would immediately proclaim that any American who brings harm to the property of a member of Congress will be treated as a domestic terrorist and afforded the same accommodations at Gitmo as the Muslim terrorists. We are at the precipice of martial law in this country, folks.

    This is no fly by night statement I make here. As the Commander-In-Chief, Barack Obama is about to face a very difficult decision if this Tea Party Terror Network advances their violent agenda.

  • Clavos

    after watching hours of CSPAN coverage this week I am convinced that the contributors here at Blogcritics have more common sense and higher IQs than 99.99999% of the sitting Congress.

    Quoted for Truth.

  • Indeed, Silas.

    The latest report.

  • Democrats decried heated Republican rhetoric, including 2008 vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin’s Twitter comment urging supporters, “Don’t Retreat, Instead — RELOAD.”

    A Palin Facebook post continued the firearms theme, featuring a U.S. map targeting 20 members of Congress who backed the healthcare legislation, using the crosshairs of a gunsight to note each of their home states.


  • cannonshop

    #123. Silas, are you afraid the right’s going to pick up the tactics of the Left or something? I’m sorry, dude, but generally conservatism doesn’t generate or attract the kind of personality that is a Bill Ayers or Patty Hearst. (hell, the big scary about the Tea Parties is the idea of getting more than a couple conservatives in the same general area on a work-day…)

    I suspect these “Threats” are like a certain congressman’s claim of being called a (word I won’t use)-there’s ample video, and none of it substantiates-but he’s continuing to claim it happened. It’s the make-believe fever-dream of people projecting their own behaviour on others.

  • Zedd


    I’m not sure what your point is. Is it that Legislators have to maneuver, collaborate, give and take in order to get bills passed? If so… ummmmm YES they do! It’s called negotiation. Surprised? Its never been like the movies. It’s never been automatic and FEELINGS and apple pie based. Now can we move on?

    What is causing a lag in progress is you “Conservatives” who have no clue how anything works. You simply believe the rhetoric and get all shocked when you are confronted with how the world really is and actually protest…. sigh. Nothing scary has happened. Just give and take. Actually I’m not quite sure what you are protesting? Can you give a brief answer?

    Clav, I’m very sorry about your loss. I almost lost my life because of a lack of insurance. A lot of people fall between the cracks. You’ve been wrong on this from day one. Your lack of understanding of Cobra and how the system works renders you useless if not dangerous in this discussion. People are loosing their lives. The odd thing is that your take is, if you haven’t experienced it, it doesn’t exist.

  • cannonshop

    #128 No, Zedd, the problem is that we DO know how things work-which means we don’t buy into the fantasies you people do, including the fantasy that the food magically appears on the back of a truck in time for you to buy it, that money comes from Government and requires no production to back it, and that you can fantasize and wish away debt instead of working to produce enough to pay it down.

    Libs live in a fantasy where they can just tap “The Rich” (which, mysteriously, they don’t believe includes themselves) to pay for everything their lazy little hearts desire, that “need” is something that somehow generates wealth, and that Daddy (Government) will make it all better if you just believe in it enough.

    Newsflash, Zedd…

    Santa Clause is a Myth created to convince children to go to bed, same for the Easter Bunny. There is no magical land that will fulfill all the obligations you rack up so you can have fun and never worry, and eventually the Creditors WILL come (or, at least, stop lending when they aren’t being paid back.)

    The Left lives their lives in a fantasy where they can have everything they want, and someone else will pay for it.

  • cannonshop

    ON another note…

    How long before the slipshod law Obama signed is magically transformed into the GOP’s fault, since, in contradiction to Mr President’s proclomation, it does NOT cover kids with pre-existing conditions, and DOES levy an additional tax on…er…’feminine suppplies’ (a Ko-Tax, if you will…)

    Not surprisingly, Democrats (who don’t really know how ANYTHING but soundbites and Teleprompters work) do shoddy work.

  • Arch Conservative

    I believe the current lingo for how Cannonshop responded to Zedd in post 129 is “laid the smack down.”

    Every last word Cannon said is true and I’m jealous that I didn’t put it that way myself.

    That being said I’d like to address something that Silas keeps harping on.

    “When will we open our eyes and see what’s happening here? There are members of Congress who have been threatened.”

    It’s more than obvious that 95% of those in Congress don’t give a damn about the American people so why should we give a damn about them? They routinely reach into our pockets to steal more money from us so that they may give it to those who put them in office and we’re supposed to give a damn about them Silas? UH UH! I don’t think so.

    They declare it their right to tax us as much as they want so they can further attempt to socially engineer this nation into utopia and I’m supposed to be concerned when some unhinged person threatens their lives?

    Nancy Pelosi spends 16000 dollars of taxpayer money on flowers for herself and we’re expectyed to believe that she gives a damn about us?

    The point is that most members of Congress spend their entire time in DC doing nothing but that which will help them maintain or increase their power while making diminishing our freedom an dthe quality of our lives.

    As far as I’m concerned, With the exception of Ron Paul, every member of Congress, King Barry the “one” and his entire staff could all drop dead tomorrow and the world would be a better place for it.

    Anyone that expects his or her fellow citizens to give a damn about any of these people needs a major league priority check.

    May I suggest you’d be better off if you adopted the attitude toward them that they’ve adopted toward you Silas……….


  • Arch Conservative

    Ouch a typo on the grand finale.

    That should read Fuck’em.

    BC needs some type of spell check feature.

  • Clavos

    How long before the slipshod law Obama signed is magically transformed into the GOP’s fault…

    It’s already happening, Cannon. See comment #10 on this thread.

  • I thought the person that wrote this was more intelligent then to clump whole swaths of people into tight narrow groups.

    Libs live in a fantasy where they can just tap “The Rich” (which, mysteriously, they don’t believe includes themselves) to pay for everything their lazy little hearts desire, that “need” is something that somehow generates wealth, and that Daddy (Government) will make it all better if you just believe in it enough.

    I was wrong.

  • Baronius

    When will we, as a nation, stop judging John Boehner by the color of his skin?

  • lol, Baronius!

  • Baronius

    Christine, I’m as guilty of this as anyone. I try to think of him as a party leader and an articulate individual, but every time I see him, I think of Nacho Cheese Doritos. MLK’s dream seems unachievable sometimes.

  • B: I think of him out on the golf course, since I used to live in one of the “golf capitals” of our country and met quite a few golf pros! La Quinta/Palm Desert. But I still like him a lot, no matter how “tan” he is.

  • He does look kind of “porky,” Christine.

  • He certainly ain’t lean, only “mean.” And as to the tan, it looks like he’d gotten it in a tanning salon, or as a result of boozing.

  • And now it comes down to “color the skin”. OK, I’ll bite. CS and Arch, you are honorable representations of conservatism just like Dave Nalle and Christine. But here’s the difference, you people have the courage of your convictions. The so-called “conservatives” in Congress pander to a segment of conservatism which harbors racial divides, religious zeal and anything anti-Obama. There isn’t a member of Congress today who comes close to the man Barry Goldwater was with the exception of Ron Paul.

  • Roger: I don’t think it is from booze, that is a different look. However, it does look like tanning because if you check out my website (my diva diet), I used to tan A LOT when I competed.

    Still need to check out your article. Been busy with teenager stuff.

  • Consider another thing, though, Silas – a point Dave made a while ago, which had kind of stuck:

    namely, that one’s personal convictions ought to be kept out of the picture, and perhaps more often than not, when it comes to statesmanship.

  • And for the record any man Mr. Boehner’s age who wears that much bronzer has issues.

  • No problemo, Christine.

    Teenager stuff is good.

  • Shuck, Silas.

    You’re not suggesting now he’s covering up his lessions like Tom Hanks in Philadelphia?

  • Baronius

    Arch, I liked “fick ’em”. It sounds like an Irish accent.

  • Now shots at Eric Cantor’s office in Virginia and threats!

  • No violence should be tolerated, period! From anyone.

  • Have you got any links in re #148, Christine?

  • Cantor just made had a press conference a few minutes ago. I am sure an article will pop up soon. Keep checking and I’ll be back this afternoon.

  • I agree, Christine. Eric Cantor’s statement this morning just feeds the frenzy further. He is playing himself off as the victim which he accomplishes quite well considering his demeanor and lack of masculinity. It’s a joke. Leaders on both sides of the aisle need to return to their bases and demand cessation of threats and fear tactics. Let’s debate these issues civilly. Cantor and Hoyer are failing miserably.

  • No violence should be tolerated from anyone or any side of the political isle, EVER! Stop IT all you nut jobs. This is not the answer.

  • This really is puzzling, Silas. It’s hard for me to believe that the supporters of the Obamacare bill would zero-in on Eric as the main culprit; they could certainly think of more hateful opponents – and that’s in spite of what you think of his estrogen levels.

    Tell you what came to my mind first – some right-wingers wouldn’t mind to saddle the left with equally abhorent behavior. And it doesn’t hurt, as far as they’re concerned, that Cantor is jewish.

  • It is time for Pelosi AND Boehner to conduct a joint news conference denouncing threats and all forms of violence. Cantor’s press conference was all politics and no substance. When will leaders on both sides of the aisle come forward TOGETHER? You want to know when? I’ll tell you. It will be when a member of Congress is shot. The situation is volatile. It is emotional. It is driven by factions who want division.

  • Yes, perhaps then they’ll all come to their senses and start pretending they’re divided at all. They’re all whores.

  • Cantor’s religion is of no concern to me, Roger. This is a secular country by rule of law whether the Right likes it or not. Roger, we both come from a people who knwo the horrors of war and occupation. Our ancestors lived through seeing their own country removed from the maps three times in their history. We’re at that point today. I’m not trying to be a prophet of doom here, but the handwriting is on the wall. The leadership on BOTH sides needs to tone down the rhetoric and ramp up the rejection of politics of fear. We’re living in a house divided, Roger. And in that division we will be struck down hard if we don’t open our eyes. Were another terror attack to occur today, I don’t think this President would get the waves of support G.W. Bush received on 9/11. Do you?

  • Shuck, Silas. I wasn’t talking bout you. And religion has also got nothing to do with racism. A Jew is a Jew is a Jew.

  • And now, the nail in our country’s coffin has been driven. Rick Santorum is thinking about running for President. Stan, get the linens out. Down Under looks more promising by the minute.

  • Silas,

    Rick Santorum is thinking about running for President?

    YES! now I know Obama will gain a second term!

  • Oh, I know, Roger. I just wanted to point out that Cantor’s faith is not the basis for my complete and utter disdain for his political style. The situation is ugly. Threats of violence, coffins at homes, shots being fired. These are all acts of terror. regardless of which side it’s coming from. Nancy Pelosi’s silence speaks volumes. John Boehner’s failure to rise up and demand civility demonstrates that he is less concerned about the nation than he is on maintaining his power. As the reports come out this afternoon, when will a courageous member of Congress come forward and denounce these acts as terror? And, let me make this point equally clear. This is not all steeped in the Tea Party. The Left is guilty as well. Terror is terror.

    As for the pundits, we need to tune them out. Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, Olbermann, Schultz and bin Laden. Yes, they ALL belong in the same sentence.

  • I can’t stand being invisible.

  • LOL, Jeannie. Don’t be so sure. Senator Sanctimonious is well known for his political tactics. Don’t underestimate him. You have to remember that a man who truly believes he is doing “God’s work” is dangerous. Case in point? Osama bin Laden. Rick Santorum might as well be a dues paying member of al Quaeda.

  • You’re NOT invisible, Jeannie.

  • lol, OK live meat! grey matter that is…

  • Rick Santorum is from my area…can’t even remember why I don’t like him?

  • Oh yes, now I remember.

    “the right to privacy “doesn’t exist in my opinion in the United States Constitution”- Rick Santorum

  • Shouldn’t be a whole lot of teabaggers liking this one.

  • Baronius

    Silas, #159 is a tough question. In what sense did I rally around Bush in 2001? I didn’t listen to him, because I don’t like to hear him speak. I knew he’d put the country first, so I had confidence in him, but I was no more pro-Bush on September 12th than I’d been on the 10th.

    If there were another attack, I’d hold Obama in the same respect I always do. On the one hand he’s my president; on the other, he’s an incompetent. I’d support him completely – but what does that really mean?

  • the same respect I always do…

  • Baronius, I am guilty of blindly supporting GW Bush in the 18 months following 9/11. I erred. I should have relied on my instincts and taken the unpopular approach much like Bill Maher. I can remember that day quite well. And the first thought I had was bin Laden was brilliant to attack Wall Street. Strictly from a strategic position, this act of war was brilliantly executed. While the rest of America was saying terrorists were cowards, Maher maintained that they weren’t at all. He was right. If we are attacked today, do we have the courage of our convictions to band together and fight our common enemy?

  • Baronius

    Silas, what does “support” mean? Could you go deeper on this?

  • Baronius,

    I am sorry to interrupt your conversation with Silas, however, I still would like to address this unfinished business

    Do you think that you could have finished this debate instead of storming off and refusing to speak to me.

    Jeannie, Paine’s “The Rights of Man” is almost exactly the opposite of what you indicate. I’m glad I took the time to rifle through it, because it’s an interesting read. But Paine is fanatically opposed to strong government.

    I answered:

    Look at the source.

    Thomas Paine, had a grand vision for society: he was staunchly anti-slavery, and he was one of the first to advocate a world peace organization and social security for the poor and elderly. But his radical views on religion would destroy his success, and by the end of his life, only a handful of people attended his funeral.”

    So he also believed in social justice.

    : ) Can you say something?

  • cannonshop

    #135 it’s not even his real skin-it’s just bronzer and makeup…which is worse. A man shouldn’t wear that much makeup unless he’s in show business, or doing a drag review.

    One has to wonder how much damage he’s doing to his kidneys with that glop.

  • Baronius

    Jeannie, I don’t know, maybe you’re completely right on this one. If I’m wrong, I’m sorry. But every time I’ve researched something you’ve said, it’s been wrong. I’m not refusing to speak to you; I just don’t feel the need to respond to anything that you claim to be a fact. Anyway, none of us are under contractual obligation to read each others’ articles and comments.

  • Baronius, I bought the “go shopping” mantra hook, line and sinker. If G.W. Bush had dropped an atom bomb on Iraq I would have supported him. I believed the Saddam Hussein threat. I refused to consider for even a moment that our government was part of the problem.

    I can remember thinking that W. would go down in history as one of the greatest Presidents we ever had. In the rubble of 9/11, I had such high hopes for him and this nation. We were united. We were determined. We were America. And George W. Bush squandered every opportunity presented. Between Nixon, Clinton and Bush II, we’ve become so cynical about our government that patriotism is now a hollow word. What can we do to restore national pride? Is it worth the debate? Are we really so deep in decline that it is time for that New World Order? I’m confused, concerned and feel impotent.

  • Baronius, your approach to things is so refreshing. The “contractual obligation” line was the conduit to the spray of iced coffee which graces my monitor.

  • John Wilson

    Zedd #128, you’re right.

  • Baronius

    I guess I can’t relate to your experience, Silas.

  • “none of us are under contractual obligation to read each others’ articles and comments.” -Baronius, who at least showed respect by answering Jeannie

    : )

  • Jeannie, who by the way makes no apologies to anyone for the year that she was born or for what she chose to do or not to do with those years, is going home now…bye

    : )

  • Baronius

    Jeannie, I’ve been clear about this from the beginning. From the get-go, I didn’t think we’d be able to communicate, and we’ve spend a couple of months demonstrating that. I’ve got nothing against you.

  • Robbie

    Sour grapes to the xtreme! All this talk of shady deals and money under the table. Where’s the evidence for that claim? Blind claim with absolutely no backing. Typical GOP horseshit. You failed during your administration so you lie about the current one.

    So when are the death panels going to be set up? I want to say bye to my grandma before Hitler Obama decides to kill her. (And you republicans believe that!)

    Sour grapes, republicans. Walk it off. You all sound like children, whining. You haven’t lost any of your liberties and Obama is not a socialist. Some of the things I read on the net and hear from Glenn Beck are so insane that I have to question mental capacity of those spewing it.

  • But it’s true, Robbie. Obama and crowd didn’t have the balls to break the backs of the private insurers.

    They’ve all caved in.

  • Robbie

    Yes I agree they did cave in a lot. That said though, why are the republicans crying about lost freedoms and such? If this bill was a weak attempt at reform, why the sour grapes?

  • Robbie

    This bill is a small step in the right direction. All those who complain have no clue what they’re talking about. If they could simply imagine what it would be like to have a child with an awful illness, which no insurance company would touch with a ten foot pole, then perhaps Obama wouldn’t be a National Socialist anymore. Put down the bible and pick up some common sense.

  • I agree with you. It is a small step. Let me say, further, it’s a historical moment.

    The only question is – can we take it to the limit, as we should.

    Remains to be seen.

  • Robbie

    It certainly does remain to be seen.

    The day there is a public option is the day America is a true republic,(when we have a choice) and not run by insurance companies who thrive off illness and select who to cover.

    Right wing voters supporting the insurance companies makes me want to vomit. It is so ignorant the way some of them are thinking. They’re more concerned about the capitalist machine (and themselves) than they are about their fellow citizens and ppl who are suffering. It is the epitome of selfishness. “I have therefore you shouldn’t” Great philosophy

  • Arch Conservative

    I don’t need you or the government to tell me who I should be concerned about Robbie. It’s my choice.

    It’s more like I have because I worked for it now keep your fucking hands away before they get cut off.

    You obviously don’t get it.

    Your mantra is I want, I need, I want, I need, give me, give m,e give me.

  • Zedd


    @129 how were you responding to me? I don’t know what you are talking about? Did you feel that that made sense? I was responding to Christines article protesting how Congress works – has always worked as if it’s new and shocking. Not sure if she fell asleep during her civics classes…. Anyway, what are you on about???

    Arch, what?

  • Zedd

    roger @187… agreed!!

  • Zedd


    @186, we are in agreement with the exeption of blaming the Bible. Its just willful ignorance not spirituality that is at fault.

  • Great to hear from you, Zedd.

  • Robbie,

    You don’t really mean we should plunder archie?

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Archie –

    Your mantra is I want, I need, I want, I need, give me, give m,e give me.

    Of course, of COURSE! That’s why – generally speaking – blue states pay more taxes than the federal government spends in those states, and the red states pay LESS taxes than the federal government spends in their states.

    So…since this is the case, since blue states give more and get less while the red states give less and give more, exactly how is it that you come up with the declaration that all we Dems are about is ‘gimmegimmegimme’?


  • Glenn Contrarian

    Christine –

    Looking at your article, I see a profound naivete about the way Washington works. FYI, young lady, that’s why legislation in ALL real democracies is sometimes referred to as ‘sausage-making’ – deals, compromises, posturing, maneuvering. It’s pretty disgusting when you watch it…but the end result (once you get used to it) tastes pretty good. You just have to ignore the calorie and fat counts….

    The Republicans cried so much about our use of reconciliation – never mind that they’ve used it a lot more than we have.

    The Republicans cried about ‘ramming this health care bill down the peoples’ throat’ – never mind that this bill does NOT increase the deficit by even ONE dollar, whereas Medicare Part D (which WAS ‘rammed down our throat’ during an all-night session of Congress (you should look it up sometime)) DID increase our national debt by over half a trillion dollars!

    The Republicans cried that they were completely shut out of the process – never mind that there are about TWO HUNDRED Republican amendments included in the bill that the president signed…including five ideas that President Obama took from the completely-televised ’round table discussion’ they held last month! And remember – we had the votes to take NONE of the Republican amendments and ideas…but we did anyway! Ask yourself – would the Republicans have been so accommodating of Democrats’ ideas had the shoe been on the other foot? I think not!

    Ah, but I forget! We’re the BAD guys who do things in really evil sneaky ways….

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Archie –

    Correction of errata in #195:

    So…since this is the case, since blue states give more and get less while the red states give less and give more, exactly how is it that you come up with the declaration that all we Dems are about is ‘gimmegimmegimme’?


    It should read:

    So…since this is the case, since blue states give more and get less while the red states give less and GET more, exactly how is it that you come up with the declaration that all we Dems are about is ‘gimmegimmegimme’?


  • Zedd


    What you are missing is that the rich that you so loyally defend say, I WANT, GIMME, I WANT GIMME. You and your middle class self have been sold a bill of goods. You have been duped into protecting the interest of the hyper wealthy. You have been hand picked and highlighted as a demographic then marketed systematically and strategically. You bought the bill of goods and are now a mouthpiece for their concerns. They WANT and you fight for them to get it.

    The truth is soon if not already you will be on Medicare and you will NEED (not just want) for your prescriptions to be affordable. A member of your family will NEED continued coverage regardless of their existing condition. Sir you may awake from your slumber at the count of three.

  • “arrogance, deceit and payoffs,” hmm…

    or maybe just…majority rule? elections count?

    the gasket blowing by the right is amusing and appalling. suck it up.

    thank god the dems at last showed some cojones.

  • Zedd


    We had the same assessment about the article and more so, the author.

    What is becoming bothersome is the acceptance of the abysmal ignorance regarding social phenomenon and our political structure. I am befuddled at the lack of accountability for some semblance of knowledgeability. I’m guessing the spread of the disdain for the intellectual elite (which began as a talking point during Newts era) has permeated society to the extent that knowing your stuff is irrelevant. Palin can just spout off ridiculousness and no one calls her or people like her on it. The media was frightened by the right with they were tagged with being liberal, so they let the idiocy perpetuate without a real challenge.

    I appreciate your comments and your continuously illuminating the fundamentals (which apparently have been overlooked)

  • Arch Conservative

    Gleen it is not the citizens of the blue states and red states that determine how much taxes are paid to the federal government and how it is reappropriated back tot the states, it’s the politicians.

    If you want to know about the people of the blue and red states it’s more appropriate to examine charitable giving. Doing this shows that red states give more in charitable donations than blue states.

    It also must be pointed out that the Democrats in Congress in writing this bill, exempted themselves from it. You would think if it was a great as they claim, they’d have no reservations about signing on themselves but alas that is not the case. Hypocrites to the very end.

    Glenn and Robie..save your left wing whackadoo moonbat bullshit for someone that might be tempted to buy it. Then come talk to me in November.

  • Zedd


    Beautifully stated!

  • Zedd

    Darn it! My rant didn’t post. It was an amazing one. Booo Hisss

  • Clavos

    The truth is soon if not already you will be on Medicare and you will NEED (not just want) for your prescriptions to be affordable.

    Plenty of people on medicare do NOT need a break on the price of their meds, Zedd, so why do we get it?

    In fact, why does everyone over 65 get medicare, even those still working and earning substantial six-figure incomes???

    Do all those rich millionaires need it? Why do they get it? Why does anyone whose retirement income is above $100K get it?

    They don’t need it.

  • Zedd


    Because my moms bill for an overnight stay on a shoulder surgery was $34,000.

    Because there were charges for respiratory therapy ($7,000), which consisted of two minutes of instruction from a CNA telling her to breath into a plastic container. The container was listed as equipment and itemized for $2,000.

    If you don’t need a break don’t use it.

  • Clavos

    If Bill Gates had bills like your mom’s should we the taxpayers help him pay for it?

    Does he help me pay for software?

    Because there were charges for respiratory therapy ($7,000), which consisted of two minutes of instruction from a CNA telling her to breath into a plastic container. The container was listed as equipment and itemized for $2,000.

    You’re getting ripped off. I only paid $5k and $200 respectively for the exact same services for my wife.

    Protest, don’t pay.

  • Zedd


    Give me numbers. What percentage of people on Medicare earn six figure salaries (aka mega tax payers btw).

  • Zedd


    Even if you earn six figures (say 100k), you don’t have 34k for a shoulder surgery.

  • Zedd


    That IS the point. WE are getting ripped off. Medicare laughed at the bill at paid $3,100.00 and called it a day. Mom paid $6.00 out of pocket.

    You should be outraged at the racket instead of focusing on me protesting. The private hospital was practicing thuggery. They are crooks. Get outraged Clav!

  • “Arrogance diminishes wisdom.”

  • Zedd


    Who is wise and who is arrogant?

  • Clavos

    Give me numbers. What percentage of people on Medicare earn six figure salaries (aka mega tax payers btw).

    Have no idea, but every one of the older guys I sell multi-million yachts to has medicare and gets his medical care subsidized by you and me.

    One is one too many.

    And a six figure income doesn’t necessarily mean a mega taxpayer — I know that for a fact.

    Get outraged Clav!

    I have been — repeatedly. I have been pointing out endlessly that medicare paid $5K for a wheelchair for my wife I could have bought for $2500. I have pointed out that medicare is getting ripped off to the tune of $60 Billion< a year, and people like Glenn have told me that's not true. The FBI says it is, however. Medicare laughed at the bill at paid $3,100.00 and called it a day

    That medicare fraud and the laughing at ripoff prices by medicare employees you mention Zedd is exactly why I don’t want the inept, crooked,PATHETIC government handling something as important as my medical care.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Clavos –

    I have pointed out that medicare is getting ripped off to the tune of $60 Billion< a year, and people like Glenn have told me that's not true.

    I did NOT say it was ‘untrue’ that Medicare’s getting ripped off so much. I DID say that what you and the rest are doing are blaming the victim – you’re blaming Medicare for the costs that they are being charged!

    So I did some quick research, and according to the New England Journal of Medicine (from which I got all the info for this comment), you ARE WAY OFF. It is NOT $60 billion that Medicare loses. That’s the total of ALL health care fraud, public AND private. Medicare’s share is the highest, at $18.6B…which shouldn’t really be surprising when they’re the biggest and they take care of the oldest and sickest.

    Congress – Republican AND Democrat – rejected five consecutive requests by the Bush administration to increase Medicare fraud enforcement funding…but gee whiz, when Obama got into office (with a much larger majority in both the House and the Senate), Medicare fraud enforcement was increased by a half billion!

    That’s why I like to provide references, Clavos. That way, instead of giving information that I can’t prove right or wrong, I can usually prove it right. Sometimes I’m wrong, and sometimes you catch it (for which I’m grateful)…but if you’d take the time to do the research yourself (and stop trusting the talking heads), you’d find things are a bit different than you once believed.

    Have no idea, but every one of the older guys I sell multi-million yachts to has medicare and gets his medical care subsidized by you and me.

    And for every one of those rich old guys, there’s tens of thousands – perhaps hundreds of thousands – of elderly who NEED Medicare. If we have to let one rich old guy get away with it in order to provide it for ten thousand others who DO need it…then that’s fine with me.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Arch –

    Gleen it is not the citizens of the blue states and red states that determine how much taxes are paid to the federal government and how it is reappropriated back tot the states, it’s the politicians.

    Nice try at tap-dancing, Arch, but not only are those politicians elected by the people in those states (we DO have a ‘representative government, you know), but the numbers are STILL the numbers. If the Dems were all about gimmegimmegimme as you say, then we be getting LESS for the money we pay in than do the Republicans.

    And please tell me why it is that blue states generally have HIGHER INCOMES than red states if we’re just gimmegimmegimme people. And why do we have lower crime rates? And higher education rates? And lower teen pregnancy rates? And lower birth mortality rates? Hm?

    If you want to know about the people of the blue and red states it’s more appropriate to examine charitable giving. Doing this shows that red states give more in charitable donations than blue states.

    Any REAL Christian will tell you that giving offerings at Church is NOT a charity, but a DUTY unto God. For that reason, I do not believe these should be counted as charity…and I back this up by NEVER claiming my offerings as charitable tax deductions. One wonders what the numbers would look like if religious offerings were not counted as charity.

    It also must be pointed out that the Democrats in Congress in writing this bill, exempted themselves from it. You would think if it was a great as they claim, they’d have no reservations about signing on themselves but alas that is not the case. Hypocrites to the very end.

    Why? Because they are already REQUIRED to be covered under the Federal Employees Health Benefits plan. There’s no need for them to be double-covered. This is a NON-ISSUE.

  • cannonshop

    #214, well, Glenn, if this new “Reform” is so good, maybe we should chuck the FEHB and put all Federal Employees on it instead. After all, while your kid’s asthma or epilepsy meds aren’t covered under the bill, a Felon’s prescription for Viagra is…

  • Arch Conservative

    Gee Glenn…just gotta love a guy like you that’s willing to starte the truth in the face and say nuh uh.

  • But you have to be consistent, Glenn.

    If “the Federal Employees Health Benefits plan” is a better one, a Cadillac plan, then they ought to be taxed on it; otherwise, offer it to all and sundry.

  • Baronius

    People aren’t on Medicare because costs are so high; costs are so high because people are on Medicare. They have no interest in the cost of what they’re purchasing because they’re not paying for it. The providers are going to increase the costs because they know there won’t be a corresponding loss in customers.

    Look at the other places where government payment is guaranteed: military contracting and education. Guess what? Cost overruns occur all the time in military contracts, and college tuition is increasing at twice the rate of health care costs.

    As P.J. O’Rourke says, if you think health care is expensive now, wait until it’s free.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    To Roger and C-shop –

    I didn’t say the FEHB was a ‘cadillac plan’ – check it out for yourselves.

    Arch –

    I notice that instead of actually trying to use logic or references to refute me, you only said that I’m ‘denying the truth’. I do wish that you’d learn to do RESEARCH to back up what you claim…

    …but I forget! That would require a desire to LEARN, and the last thing conservatives want to see is something that proves them wrong.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Gone on vacation – see y’all in a couple weeks!

  • “Arrogance diminishes wisdom.”

    In my mind wisdom is gained by failed arrogance.

    Have a safe vacation, Glenn.

  • Enjoy it, Glenn.

  • from humility, in other words.

  • hurry back…

  • cannonshop

    #221 I’ve always thought Wisdom was the outcome of screwing up (assuming you live through it, that is…)

  • Clavos

    So I did some quick research, and according to the New England Journal of Medicine (from which I got all the info for this comment), you ARE WAY OFF. It is NOT $60 billion that Medicare loses.

    Oh, but it is, Glenn:

    CBS: 60 Minutes: Medicare Fraud: A $60 Billion Crime

    ABCNews Nightline: Medicare Fraud Costs Taxpayers More Than $60 Billion Each Year

    And you’re wrong on another point as well, Glenn. I don’t blame Medicare for the fraud, but I do blame them for making it so easy and for not doing anything to prevent it. And I do most definitely blame them for knowingly paying $5K for a wheelchair I could buy from the same manufacturer for $2500. I blame them, because, when I discovered this and went to them, told them it could be bought much cheaper and suggesting we buy it that way, they refused to do so.

    If we have to let one rich old guy get away with it in order to provide it for ten thousand others who DO need it…then that’s fine with me.

    But we don’t, Glenn, the two are not mutually exclusive. All we have to do is set limits: if you make more than X per year, or have more than Y net worth, you’re on your own, the taxpayers won’t pay your medical bills.

  • I don’t essentially have any problem with that idea.

    The only question is, how are you going to convince those folks that the contributions they’ve made to Medicare all those years aren’t going to count?

  • John Wilson

    All the 60minutes site says is

    “In fact, Medicare fraud – estimated now to total about $60 billion a year – has become one of, if not the most profitable, crimes in America.

    No attribution, no citation.

    Why would you give it any credibility?

    The ABC article offers no explanation for their estimate.

    Neither of Clavos’s citations is worth a thing.

    IMO, that $60billion number is just apocrypha that keeps circulating around among lazy journalists.

    Several questions arise:

    1-we only seem to know about fraudsters that are caught; is that all of them?

    2-why aren’t there more FBI agents catching medicare fraudsters.

    3-why don’t entrepeneurs startup fraud-detection businesses? Seems like there’d be a lot of money in it.

    4-what’s the size of private insurance fraud? Or is there none for some reason?

  • Calaveras

    the Right has lost any tenable claim to fiscal responsibility with the Bush brokered economic crisis which Obama has inherited.
    So they retreat to race baiting and fear mongering. Willie Horton all over again.
    I expect the Right to run on a fear based platform this fall, as usual. What passes for a left in this country will hopefully pick up on this and not be baited into that game. This will leave the right scrambling for more Bush-isms to pump up their base.

  • Clavos

    60 Minutes is, as everyone knows, a prize-winning investigative journalism program of long-standing and well-deserved probity.

    It is its own source on most of its stories, since it is usually the originator.

    The same goes for Nightline, though it has not been on the air as long as 60 Minutes.

    The FBI as well, notes that health care fraud, especially involving Medicare and Medicaid is rampant and the largest non-violent crime category in the country.

    All health care programs are subject to fraud; however, Medicare and Medicaid programs are the most visible.

    All of these sources have more credibility regarding the size and scope of fraud in the medical industry than a medical journal, whose staff and readership consist of the very people, according to the FBI, likely to commit fraud, physicians:

    One of the most significant trends observed in recent health care fraud cases includes the willingness of medical professionals to risk patient harm in their schemes

    Indeed, here in South Florida, a hotbed of Medicare fraud, accounting for nearly 10% of the annual national total, we see Medicare fraud busts on a near-weekly basis, and most of the perps are doctors, usually with Latino surnames.

  • Zedd


    Iam failing to see what your point is. If there are people out there (and there are)who want to and do cheat the system, ANY SYSTEM, how does that make the system itself bad? Insurance fraud is estimated to be 120billion per year. Soooooooo scrap the insurance industry all together? No comprende hombre.

    What you are missing is that you are making an argument against big business. If we reduce regulation and let the free market do what it wants to, people WILL cheat. They will gouge, push, pinch and steal until there is nothing left, ala the housing crisis and then we will figure out a way to fight each other for nothing (a la the birthers and the tea party silliness). The fantacy that the market will fix itself has never been proven. Its simply ridiculous when you know what you know about humans. Given the chance, we will behave like sows. Root hog or die, RIGHT?!!!

  • Clavos

    First of all, Zedd, a bit of friendly advice. You should stick to English and any other language you actually know. If you don’t know a language (and that sample of your ungrammatical, Gringo Spanish clearly indicates you don’t), you only look foolish attempting to use it.

    Secondly, it really is you who are missing the point; I’m not advocating scrapping Medicare, merely pointing out how badly the government runs it, which of course, is a hallmark of government management; the USPS being an excellent, ongoing example of government mismanagement.

    Additionally, you miss the point that it is precisely OVER-regulation of health insurance which has made it non-competitive and put the insurance companies in a position from which they can abuse their customers with impunity. Specifically, the prohibition against interstate insurance plans (as are common in the auto insurance industry) makes of the customers of any given state a captive market and opens the door for all the insurers’ abusive activities. The auto insurance industry, which is far more competitive, is comparatively free of abuses and significantly less expensive.

  • jerry996

    What role did the support of Catholic nuns (http://blog.beliefnet.com/deaconsbench/2010/03/nuns-back-health-care-reform-bill.html)play in Representative Stupak’s change of heart?

  • Roger B

    “60 Minutes” may be a great outfit, and all, but the quote doesn’t include any information on how they went about their research.



  • Mike McKendry

    This is the biggest fraud ever perpetraded upon the American public! We will be paying for this unconstitutional action for many years. After all, what country has leaders who say, “We have to pass it to find out what is in it”

  • Igor

    “Obamacare” saves the USA debt about $200 billion per year. If we instituted Universal Healthcare the savings would be about $500 billion/year.

  • The biggest fraud… come off it, Mike.

    “Separate But Equal” ring a bell? Credit Mobilier? Spanish-American War? McCarthyism? Gulf of Tonkin? WMDs? Shall I go on?

  • Not to mention probably the biggest porker of all: the tyranny of British rule.

  • Noah

    Damn, now sick people are gonna be able to afford to get better, what is this world coming too? I’m moving to Canada. Oh wait.Well i’m moving somewhere where people are suffering and can’t get their basic medical needs met. Somalia ,there we go, now that’s my sort of place ,people suffering, nobody cares, home sweet home.