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Obama: Say One Term Is Enough

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Admittedly, I never was a fan of President Obama, either as a candidate or now as president. I always suspected, based on his dependence on corporate money and his lackluster career as a state and US senator that he would, ultimately, prove to be a big disappointment to the millions of Democrats, liberals, progressives and independents that fell for his slick rhetoric. He has always been too much a part of the two-party plutocracy to ever be a true reformer. Here are some of the main reasons that he should cut his ties to corporate and political elites, announce that he will not run for reelection and, instead, become the populist, reformist president the nation desperately needs:

Though he certainly inherited a terrible economy from the Bush administration, he has steadfastly pursued the same policies (and with the same characters) to address terrible things about the national economy as well as the banking, financial and housing sectors that one would expect from someone too concerned about corporate interests rather than the needs of most Americans. All the billions of dollars pumped into business sectors has done next to nothing to stop the awful, continuing unemployment situation that has become yet another nail in the coffin of the middle class. The many greedy people on Wall Street that sunk the national and global economies have not been punished, but still hold on to their huge wealth. Obama has made a mockery of the rule of law with his infantile “I want to look forward, not backward” philosophy. Justice cannot be obtained other than by looking back and prosecuting the lawbreakers.

At a time when there are historic levels of Americans unable to buy enough food and, therefore, increasingly dependent on government food stamps or charity food banks and pantries, and millions more are losing their homes and going homeless, and still more millions unable to access affordable health care, President Obama is still pursuing the obscenely costly wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. To waste American lives and ignore enormous domestic economic needs in pursuit of imperialistic wars is insultingly shameful. This kind of behavior would have been totally expected from a Republican president. No reasonable American should ever condone such behavior that continues to put the nation in long term financial peril that will surely negatively impact the lives of Americans for many decades to come.

Third, Obama’s performance on health care reform has been abysmal. Rather than show genuine leadership, he left if up to the corporate-controlled House and Senate to create highly delusional and deceptive health care reform bills. What the country needed was a president that was a champion for a single-payer universal health care system. Instead, what we will surely get is a bill that Obama will happily sign and then declare victory even though very few Americans will see lower costs, better insurance coverage, more affordable access to health care or the freedom to get into a first-rate government program.

In sum, Obama’s policies and tactics are killing Americans, not metaphorically but literally. For these reasons alone, Americans should make it clear that they have lost confidence in President Obama. He needs to see that the vast majority of Americans are suffering too much in so many ways that he needs to make a sharp turn in his policies, programs and staff. Better to be a really good, historic one-term president than a losing two-termer.

Time for more Americans to stop succumbing to Obama’s slick talk and promises and start demanding very loudly that their government work more aggressively to fix the burdens hitting at least a third of the population. Our current domestic conditions are so dire that if history provided any appropriate message, then President Obama should be made to see that the radical, revolutionary talk coming mostly from the right will surely become shared by the larger fraction of suffering Americans seeing themselves as liberals, independents and progressives. The time for revolution is now. Will it be peaceful or violent? That is what our political leaders (with their full stomachs, nice homes, secure income and great health care insurance) should be made to stay awake at night thinking about.

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About Joel S. Hirschhorn

Formerly full professor Univ. of Wisconsin, Madison, and senior official Congressional Office of Technology Assessment and National Governors Association. Author of four nonfiction books and hundreds of articles.
  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I’m not sure I’ve ever agreed with one of your articles before, Joel, but even though it may be a sign of the apocalypse, I think you’re 100% dead on here.

    Dave

  • zingzing

    while i agree with you that he should cut ties with the political/business elite and become a real reformist, that’s very unfortunately not the way politics work, is it? what you’re saying leads towards either complete impotency or totalitarianism. if you can think of a way that he can get shit done without the people around him (whoever they happen to be) and the business community, i’m all ears.

    on the wars, i think he should decrease the numbers in iraq to bolster those in afghanistan, take care of the taliban, then get the fuck out. after nearly a decade, things need to be tied off, at best.

    our current health care system is broken. our new one, whenever that happens, will be a work in progress. this single-payer system makes a lot of sense, in its own way. whatever covers to most while fucking over the least is whatever is best.

    obama is making a lot of hard decisions, including some that are going to piss off his backers. like the afghanistan announcement. but that’s not unusual. i hope that he asserts himself more, and i hope he has success doing what he thinks is right, and i hope that that shuts up the right wing’s nonsense.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/christine-lakatos/ Christine

    Great article, Joel.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Whatever. More blah blah blah from the we-hate-everything-Obama-says-or-does [or might possibly say or do].

    The amount of angst and agita he engenders in the right is enough to erase any doubts I might have. Upsetting ding-dongs is a good thing.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Yikes! It must be the end of days! The Right and Left are giving Joel props! Right now I see him as a one term President but for entirely different reasons. We’re one track to a civil war in this country and in the new Information Age, the ramifications of such will be swift as a surgeon’s scalpel.

    on the wars, i think he should decrease the numbers in iraq to bolster those in afghanistan, take care of the taliban, then get the fuck out. after nearly a decade, things need to be tied off, at best.

    Make pot legal. Stop spending wasted dollars on a war against a plant that could become America’s next cash crop. Let’s also grow our own poppies and have a controlled heroin distribution system which will kill off the drug lords and make a massive impact on Taliban revenues.

    our current health care system is broken. our new one, whenever that happens, will be a work in progress. this single-payer system makes a lot of sense, in its own way.

    It’s the only way. Time to get our of the health for profit paradigm and face reality. We are a nation that needs to care for its’ own through a comprehensive preventative health and maintenance program. It’s also time to make physical education an integral part of the school curriculum from preschool.

    Imagine, for a moment, taking the site of the World Trade Center and erecting a tower that was rampant with urban hydroponic gardens and helix wind turbines to generate the power. Sounds stupid, huh? Well, give people the seeds they will learn to feed themselves, even on Wall Street.

    Obama has the vision. He doesn’t have the political clout. He’s the first Black President and this political system is using that little diddy to their advantage. Barack Obama has the weight of 200+ years of racial divide upon his shoulders. Is there a white man among you who is willing to take that burden?

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Silas, honestly, the things that come out of your mouth. Do you give even two seconds worth of thought first, or just start typing…and whatever spews out, you leave it on the page?

  • Arch Conservative

    “Obama has the vision.”

    Unfortunately for him the portion of the American population that wants absolutely nothing at all to do with that vision is roughly 50% and climbing.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    I don’t believe Joel or anyone so far commenting here have any sense of the ebb and flow of a typical presidential term.

    The state of the issues now at hand seem to preclude a second Obama term. However, I’d (almost) be willing to bet that most of these issues will be passe’ by the time the 2012 campaign gets into full swing.

    If they’re not, if unemployment remains high, if Afghanistan is still rockin & rollin, etc., then the current predictions will likely come to pass.

    However, unless we once again suffer terrorist attacks, or some other presently unforseen cataclysmic event occurs, unemployment will likely not be the dire issue it is today, health care change will be history – whether adopted or not, the economy will have essentially recovered and the powers that be will have subsided our involvement in Afghanistan and there will only be a token remnant of our troops in Iraq. Even at that, I won’t predict an Obama victory in 2012, but his situation will likely not be nearly so rocky come the campaign as it now appears.

    B

  • Baronius

    And another surprise, as Baritone and I agree. The pivotal issues in the 2012 election may very well be the Chinese Civil War, the appellate court corruption scandal, and the agribusiness bailout. Political fortunes will shift at least once in the next three years.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Silas, honestly, the things that come out of your mouth. Do you give even two seconds worth of thought first, or just start typing…and whatever spews out, you leave it on the page?

    I allow the Holy Spirit to work through my hands to the keyboard.

    Unfortunately for him the portion of the American population that wants absolutely nothing at all to do with that vision is roughly 50% and climbing.

    I curse the day I went to work for Ronald Reagan.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    I don’t believe Joel or anyone so far commenting here have any sense of the ebb and flow of a typical presidential term.

    That would be true IF this was a typical Presidential term. Again, Barack Obama has a heavier burden by virtue of his race. To ignore that simple premise is to continue ignoring the simple fact that racism, sexism and homophobia are thriving in America. The Far Right is the ultimate domestic enemy and to think otherwise is tantamount to being an ostrich with its’ head buried in the Arab desert.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Silas –

    I don’t know that the Far Right is the “ultimate” domestic enemy…but they’ve certainly been successful so far in their wars on education, on the middle class, on the environment, on the economy, on anyone who doesn’t look/act/think like they do, on our international reputation, and on our national honor.

    But they’re the only REAL patriots, the only REAL Americans, right?

  • zingzing

    they’re the only ones who like torture, but can’t recognize it when they see/do it.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Indeed, Glenn. The behavior of the Far Right is proof positive that we humans are evolved from apes.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Not that this has anything to do with this thread, but Keith Olbermann pointed out last nite that Sarah Palin included in her book a quote supposedly attributed to former UCLA BB Coach, John Wooden, when in fact it was a (near) quote from a native American named John WoodenLEG. I suppose one could forgive sister Sarah for not noticing the difference – apparently she used a web site dedicated to famous quotes – but you’d think that someone in the publishing house would have thought to check it out. The rush to publication apparently precludes any fact checking, which would have perhaps avoided the many errors so far discovered in the book. I guess going “rogue” includes playing fast and loose with the truth.

    B

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Has anyone stopped to consider that the Far Right has more in common with baboons than Barack Obama? Is that a racially charged statement? You betcha! It’s time we had a serious chat about the underlying causes for the political/religious divides in this country. To the White Far Right, Blacks are only useful when they are corralled into Christian Churches tithing to their White Christian Crusader Lords. Meanwhile, these same duplicitous, adulterous, closeted Far Right Christians smoke their cigars and joints in back rooms thinking of other ways to control the minorities. Are we to look at John Ensign and Tom Coburn as respectable political leaders? I think not. They, through their works and association with C Street, are promoting a law in Uganda which would make homosexuality punishable by death. That’s right. That’s the work they are doing. It’s sick. It’s immoral. It’s contrary to the teachings of Christ. We’ve got some serious issues in America and this is the time to act. We can no longer tolerate scum like Coburn and Ensign to walk the hallowed halls of the Rotunda.

  • Baronius

    Silas, Barack Obama’s presidency is empirically typical. He got roughly the same percentages of the same groups and regions as any successful Democrat. He’s seen his poll numbers go up and down based on his performance and external factors. There’s no reason to anticipate that racism will begin to affect his presidency.

  • Lumpy

    OMG Palin misattributed a quote! Burn her!!!

  • Baronius

    Lumpy, I don’t know if you’ve heard about this example of great writing:

    “The apartment was small, with slanting floors and irregular heat and a buzzer downstairs that didn’t work, so that visitors had to call ahead from a pay phone at the corner gas station, where a black Doberman the size of a wolf paced through the night in vigilant patrol, its jaws clamped around an empty beer bottle.”

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    That writing is compelling. A literary masterpiece. Sarah Palin is right up there with Hemmingway, Shakespeare and um, never mind. If it weren’t for Todd Palin, I wouldn’t even bother to watch her.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    The point Lump, was that it should never have made it into print. To mis-quote, or mis-attribute a quote say from a podium is one thing. For such to appear in a book backed by a major publisher that the drooling minions of Ms. Palin are apparently buying (and, perhaps actually reading) by the ton, is at best careless, and at worst, an indication that the entire work is suspect in its accuracy and its veracity.

    But, I suppose in this case, if one is to consider the source…

    In a related issue, apparently Carrie Prejean is now considered by some to have a future in politics. Just thinking about it sends shivers up my dockers.

    How bout this: Palin/Prejean in 2012. It can’t miss. It’s even better than Palin/Beck, unless The Glenster would agree to having some implants. Hmmm. Put that in your pipe and yada, yada, yada…

    B

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    How bout this: Palin/Prejean in 2012. It can’t miss. It’s even better than Palin/Beck, unless The Glenster would agree to having some implants. Hmmm. Put that in your pipe and yada, yada, yada…

    If there were ever a reasonable argument for the advance of the “homosexual agenda” it is Carrie Prejean. The thought of her womb actually spitting out another human is frightening. But, then again, the probability of her reproducing is quite slim as she only performs solo acts.

    Back to the topic at hand, I still don’t see Mr. Obama winning a 2nd term, even at this early stage. He rode into office with high expectations that have fallen flat. The problem I have is that dissatisfaction with Obama may lead to gains by the Far Right which is an alternative I am not prepared to accept.

    I notice that no one specifically addressed my proposal in a fundamental shift change in our nation’s drug policies. Why is that? Does anyone recognize that a major part of the Afghan problem is heroin (poppies)? Defense contractors get richer. Afghan drug lords get richer. And the American taxpayer is on the verge of bankruptcy. We might as well become the United States of China at this point. At least then we’d have health care reform and people like Madoff would be executed.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “I still don’t see Mr. Obama winning a 2nd term, even at this early stage.”

    Good thing he doesn’t have to at this early stage. These premature predictions are ridiculous and a waste of time

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    On that point, I will concede.

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    But, then again, the probability of her reproducing is quite slim as she only performs solo acts.

    Right now she’s dating St. Louis Rams backup quarterback Kyle Boller, who has never had a reputation for finding the open target.

    We’ll be alright.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    As to Silas’ drug suggestions, generally I would agree. It’s not likely to happen because this country just can’t get passed it’s puritanical roots. It is far too inbred into the fabric of this society to condone anyone actually having a good time. One must be deprived of joy or pleasure and punished if achieved.

    I’m of the same mind as El B. This discussion is like writing off a sports team a quarter into the season because they’ve lost a couple of games.

    Look at the Tennessee Titans. They lost their first 6 games. In about everyone’s mind they were done. Enter Vince Young. Now, they are 5 & 6. They remain a long shot, but if they continue to win and get a bit of help, they could sneak in as a wild card. In that case, they could take it all.

    Obama ain’t done yet.

    B

  • Baronius

    Baritone, a misattributed quote doesn’t reflect well on Palin, but it reflects terribly on her publisher, HarperCollins.

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    So you’re saying President Obama is a longshot to win a second term?

  • Arch Conservative

    Palin had a misquote?

    Hey Baritone, Barack Obama once claimed to have campaigned in all 57 states.

    Did you make a huge fucking deal out of that?

    My money’s on no….you didn’t.

  • zingzing

    just on a hunch, i went and looked up “united states and territories” to see how many there were. yep, 57 (including dc). obviously, obama doesn’t think there are 57 states. he just didn’t add in “and territories.”

    palin, however, thinks (or thought) that a college coach said those words.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    This alleged ‘one-term president’ has just given another extraordinary speech [at West Point, on Afghanistan]. Still think he’s amateurish? Maybe that’s just wishful thinking on your part.

  • Arch Conservative

    If all Obama ever does while in office is give good speeches then we’re all screwed handy.

    Oh and zing…..territories don’t vote, Obama didn’t campaign in the territories and if Palin had said the same thing you hypocrite moonbats would have been all over.

    57 states

  • zingzing

    true, territories don’t vote.

    obama doesn’t think there are 57 states.

    and if palin had said the same thing, it would be another turd on the mountain she’s pumped out. so yeah, you’re probably right.

    but your hypocrisy is at least equal to mine. i wouldn’t deny it. (take that how you will.) (i love this game.)

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    re: Silas @ 5 and handy’s reply @ 6

    lmao!

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Bar – I think that’s what I said.

    Matt – No. I think that things will turn around between now and 2012. I think he will win – perhaps not as dramatically as last year – but he will win decisively.

    Arch – Once again – so you can understand, I’ll type slowly – Whatever Obama said regarding his having visited 57 states, it was said impromptu at a question/answer session. Palin’s gaff is in a FUCKING BOOK!
    Do you grasp the difference, Arch? Mmmmm. Perhaps not. Oh, well…

    handy – While I’m not really on board with an escalation in Afghanistan, I agree, it was a good speech. I hope it works.

    B

  • Dan

    Ha ha. So Sarah Palin misattributed a quote by John Wooden… to John Wooden?

    That’s the best Keith O can do? Why even mention it. Even if true, which could very well be suspect given the lying weasels track record, does it even matter?

    The more pathetic these smear attempts on Sarah Palin are, (yes, you can see Russia from Alaska, and yes government death panels did just recommend women put off mammograms until they’re 50) the more one realizes that Sarah Palin does indeed have something going on.

  • Mark

    In the off chance that he goes post-Keynesian and muscles through a jobs program following some variant of Minsky’s proposals, he wins — along with State capitalism.

  • zingzing

    “yes, you can see Russia from Alaska”

    ha. sorta. if you’re stretching.

    “and yes government death panels did just recommend women put off mammograms until they’re 50″

    ahh, the death panels. glad they’re back.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Death panels? Why can’t you idiots get beyond that stupid shit. Are you just so brain dead that it’s beyond you?

    And NO, she did NOT mis-attribute a John Wooden quote to John Wooden. She mis-attributed a JOHN WOODEN LEGS quote to John Wooden.

    “Our land is everything to us… I will tell you one of the things we remember on our land. We remember that our grandfathers paid for it – with their lives.”

    John Wooden Legs – Cheyenne

    I am a great admirer of Coach Wooden, but does that sound even remotely like something he would have been quoted as saying?

    In and of itself that is no big whup, but I note once again that this appears to be just the tip of the iceberg. Palin has managed to get into publication a pack of mis-attributes, fantasies, equivocations and out right lies into her 400+ page tome.

    Palin is a crap load with big hair and a decently tight ass.

  • Dan

    “ahh, the death panels. glad they’re back.”

    When did they ever go anywhere? On one hand Palin haters lapse into shrieking fits when the term is used, but then gayly argue that insurance companies already use “death panels” (which they do).

    The desperation of obsessive Palin haters in their all out attempt to marginalize her is about as convincing as Silas’ informing us how yucky Carrie Prejean is.

    not very.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Ms. Prejean’s astonishingly ridiculous [and very funny] appearance on Larry King a few weeks ago takes her way beyond yucky. She’s in a zone all her own.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    For those inclined to write Obama off [mostly those who have hated him all along], remember a couple of counterexamples: Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton, who faced major setbacks in their first term but went on to win easy reelection.

    I don’t even accept the premise that he’s in trouble: the Real Clear Politics average of approval polls is still at 50.3% approval, 43.7% disapproval.

    Who do you think those 50.3% are, anyway? All liberal true believers? No way.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    If you have a wooden leg do they make you take it off at the airport so they can look inside it or do you think that would be profiling the handicapped?

  • Irene Wagner

    That sounds kinda cheeky, Cindy.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Sounds more like a random thought. Let’s put it to music. :)

    B

  • Irene Wagner

    No no not music. Its…LIMMERICK time!

  • Irene Wagner

    A Holiday Trav’ler named Peg
    Was required to take off her leg…
    OK, now I’ve got to read THIS article, too.
    Carry on.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    lol :-)

  • Irene Wagner

    I’ll bet by 2011 Obama will look 12 years older instead of four. I’m not even sure he’ll want another term, even if he had a chance of getting elected again. I can’t remember a President who walked into more of a mess. Not takin’ up for him or anything, and he wasn’t my pick last November, but I still feel sorry for him, in a naive sort of way.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle


    Look at the Tennessee Titans. They lost their first 6 games. In about everyone’s mind they were done. Enter Vince Young. Now, they are 5 & 6. They remain a long shot, but if they continue to win and get a bit of help, they could sneak in as a wild card. In that case, they could take it all.

    So, Bari, how much money are you willing to bet on the Titans to win the superbowl right now?

    I rest my case.

    Dave

  • Baronius

    Here I go defending Obama.

    He was saying that he’d campaigned in every state but one…except for Alaska and Hawaii…so that’s 50…7 states. It’s easy to see what his thought process was; he was going to say 50 but changed it to 47 midstream.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Since I am a Colt’s fan, I wouldn’t be inclined to make that bet.

    But much the same thing happened to Clinton during his first term AND to every conservatives’ hero, Ronnie. I doubt that anyone would have taken bets on their ability to recover in time for their second election. Nevertheless…

    Arch and the rest of you cons have a big hard on in the belief that Obama is dead in the water. I’m not making or taking bets. Unlike all of you, I don’t pretend to see into the future. Three years is a long time.

    Oh and Arch. It’s clear that you also have a hard on for the great Ms. Palin. I guess she has that look that no righty tighty can resist. I imagine you think she’s winking at you. Hey, I think you can get an inflatable Palin doll now with all the desired orifices. I think you can get one free with each copy of her book.

    Palin has made enough of her own gaffs that one more wouldn’t make much difference.

    The fact that you can’t let go of an insignificant Obama gaff that happened more than a year ago would indicated that you had to, in desparation, reach back that far to find anything to load your gun with – even if it’s nothing more than wet powder. Do you go out to local bars and tell everybody the “57 states” story and still get laughs?

    No doubt if you had been in the same circumstance – making literally hundreds of appearances, giving hundreds of speeches for months on end, you would have NEVER said anything stupid. Never, never, never.

    You are pathetic.

    B

  • Baronius

    A Holiday Trav’ler named Peg
    Was required to take off her leg
    but the next guy, Abu,
    got a friendly wave-through
    because profiling vi’lates a reg.

  • Baronius

    Baritone, about half the conservatives posting on this thread didn’t say anything about Obama being dead in the water. I said the opposite. The world is a lot more interesting than your stereotypes of it.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    ROFLMAO #53. Now what if it is a Muslim male with a beard and wooden leg? Would he be profiled? Or would he be allowed through? Reminds me of the ol’ joke – ever hear about the Irishman who thought Moby Dick was a venereal disease?

  • zingzing

    “an inflatable Palin doll now with all the desired orifices.”

    um. if you don’t make that, i will. nothing like suckering some hicks. ok, “suckering” might not be the best word right now. but anyway, that’s $$$.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “Do you grasp the difference, Arch?”

    @ 35 – Baritone, the problem is you presume Arch knows what a book is

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Arch –

    I wonder if you realize that while the ‘moonbats’ might be on the liberal side, the Moonies are on your side…and frankly, I like moonbats a lot more than the Sun Myung Moon clan.

  • Irene Wagner

    re #53: Well done! Baronius I knew you’d be up to the task.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Said an Idahoan named Irene,
    “Bar’s is the best ditty I’ve seen!
    It’s piquantly topical,
    And quite philosophical,
    But isn’t the least bit obscene!”

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Baritone –

    Don’t you know that Obama’s single misstatement is FAR WORSE than Palin’s plethora of pusillanimous pithiness?

    Just as Bill Clinton’s dalliances were FAR WORSE than the Bush family’s business ties to the bin Laden family, and Obama’s bow to the Japanese emperor is FAR WORSE than Dubya’s administration instituting TORTURE in violation of international law, treaties to which we are signatory, and against the advice of the FBI and against the protests of American WWII interrogators.

    We’ve got a splinter in our eye…and they’ve got a doggone forest.

  • Irene Wagner

    I LIKE that limmerick, Dr. D.
    I’m not sure why the genre so easily bends itself in that direction. Tradition, maybe.
    OK, I’m off.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Irene –

    You have to admit that not every good limerick contains ‘Nantucket’….

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Scanning the magazine racks at the local convenience store this afternoon I learned that Tiger Woods had an affair with two women; Barack Obama had a secret gay lover; and Brangelina is in trouble. If this drivel is what’s populating the minds of rank and file Americans, I am frightened.

  • Baronius

    If Obama announced that he wasn’t running for reelection, the next three years would be like Stalin and Trotsky vying for power in the Democratic Party.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    If anyone imagines Obama will make any such announcement, they are out of their minds.

    B

  • Irene Wagner

    A terrorist flew to Nantucket,
    T.S.A. did not see his trebucket,
    But they hassled poor Peg,
    Made her take off her leg!
    And found only loose change where she’d stuck it.

    Don’t EVER do that to me again, Glenn!
    Cindy, I stopped trying to figure out who to believe a while ago. Not that isn’t worth the effort.

  • Baronius

    Wow, Irene. Wow.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Bar @ 53

    Oh my, that is excellent! Nice job. :-)

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    How you doin’ today hot pants…er Silas. ;-)

    (You did understand your bday videos right?…you know who that masked man was yes?)

    I downloaded that other film you like, the one that makes you cry…forget the name. What does zing know, anyhow…he is to young to appreciate sappy movies…still has a stake in being cool.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Ah, it is so nice to be past cool. :-)

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    “Wow Irene Wow!” x deux

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    I downloaded that other film you like, the one that makes you cry…forget the name.

    AUGUST RUSH!!! Watched the ending again today. I just love that ending.

    zing…he is to young to appreciate sappy movies

    Yeah a little peach fuzz on the right spots and they think they’re wise old men.

    …still has a stake in being cool.

    Indeed, sometimes too cool.

    …you know who that masked man was yes?

    Indeed I did. Really wanted one of Levi without the hockey stick.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    And now, as we enter 2010 I predict the nominees in 2012:

    GOP: Romney/Pawlenty

    DEM: Obama/Clinton

  • Arch Conservative

    Romney could run circles around both Barry and the bitch in terms of management skills and understanding of business and economics.

    While Barry the community organizer was…community organizing….Romney had a real job and was doing it well.

  • doug m

    How patethic. Arch, go work on your mommy issues.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Archie just wants a tough man for a tough job, and that’s understandable. It’s not difficult to see our current president as a sissy.

  • doug m

    Considering his attitudes towards women, I wouldn’t be surprised if he wanted a tough man.

    Not sure how Obama is a sissy

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Touche! What I meant is lacking in conviction, far too compromising, indecisive. The passion just isn’t there like it was during the primaries. Sounds less than convincing and flat.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    The first part of comment was tongue in cheek.

  • Baronius

    The problem with Romney is that he couldn’t rise to the top in a lousy field of candidates in 2008. He lost to McCain, and looked evenly matched against Huckabee. In all likelihood, in 2012 the Republicans will have been without a pulpit for four years. They’ll back anyone who looks like a guaranteed win, and that’s not Romney.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    I understand Romney as actually made out of plastic. Could just be a rumor, though.

    I think the braintrust (I use the term derisively) at the RNC may well opt for Palin/Prejean. They could be their own cheerleaders – literally. Rah, rah, rah. Vote for 2 P’s in a pod! I know I’m lovin it.

    B

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Wow, all this passive aggression against someone who may have mommy issues. Dear God, please don’t delegate him to the closeted LGBT community. Granted, he’d be in great Conservative company but I may have to consider burning my membership card.

    While Barry the community organizer was…community organizing….Romney had a real job and was doing it well.

    And what the Far Right is doing in the hollows of Est ButtCrack, Missouri ain’t community organizing? Oh, I forgot, if it’s community organizing with a far right mission it’s calls proselytizing or advancing the conservative cause — far nobler than community organizing.

    Insofar as Romney having a “real” job, being a man’s man, and representing the Right cause — get ready. He was a figurehead as Governor of Massachusetts. He didn’t give a rat’s ass about this Commonwealth and looked upon the State House as nothing more than a mechanism for getting on the national stage. Romney is no better than Mike Dukakis — the only differences? Great, expensive hair cuts, designer suits and magic underwear. He played up that he was more liberal than fellow Republicans just to get into office. The moment his hand was placed on the Bible (which version, I don’t know), he morphed into this far right super religious freak.

    Archie just wants a tough man for a tough job, and that’s understandable. It’s not difficult to see our current president as a sissy.

    Has anyone EVEN considered that the toughest man for this tough job may, in fact, be a woman? And, I’m not talking Hillary though right about now a Hillary Presidency seems to be what many wish had occurred. I really don’t find anything about Mr. Obama to be sissified. As much as the Right wants to paint Barack Obama as anything less than manly, it doesn’t work. He’s the epitome of what a real man should be in today’s world (he said, wishing that certain Far Righters’ heads explode upon reading). When I saw the cover of a national rag paper proclaiming “Barack’s secret gay lover” I nearly lost it. They will stop at nothing.

    They’ll back anyone who looks like a guaranteed win, and that’s not Romney.

    Don’t write Romney off. His organization is strong, his Church wields power and he’s whiter than Carrie Prejean’s teeth.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Who says that women are less tough-minded as men? And no, I’m neither from the Far Right, Silas, nor do I have any “mommy issues.”

    The recent decision on Afghanistan is a case in point. He’d simply succumbed to political pressures by boosting our presence there by thirty thousand – a mere token, at best – accompanied by a schedule for not too far distant withdrawal. Either admit that you’re doing it out of political expediency (because we’re already there) – which would be a manly thing to do – or do it whole-heartedly. Nobody’s being fooled by Obama’s tokenism, neither in this matter nor in the matter of the much maligned but all so heralded legislation that passes for “healthcare reforms.” At least I’m not.

  • Baronius

    “When I saw the cover of a national rag paper proclaiming “Barack’s secret gay lover” I nearly lost it. They will stop at nothing.”

    Yeah, Silas, a person would have to be pretty messed up to inject sexual orientation into every last thing.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Roger, I’ve brought this up before and don’t know where you stand so let me ask. Do you see any credence in the theory that Obama’s position as the “first Black President” somehow places a heavier burden on his shoulders? After a little over 10 months in office I am far from impressed by the Obama Administration. In fact, I’m quite disappointed. I thought Barack Obama was a different kind of politician. I should have known better as he comes from Chicago.

    This week I’ve been immersed in the Senate campaign here in Massachusetts. The leading Democrat candidate is a woman who is using her gender to get votes. I’ve talked to hundreds of people and the resounding mantra from women is we need to send a woman to the Senate. There’s a danger to that mode of thought. Should she win and succeed Ted Kennedy, she will have just two years to prove she is worthy of being Senator from Massachusetts. The Mass media has pretty much retreated by treating her as the heir apparent. Should she win the Democrat Primary on Tuesday, it’s quite possible that Massachusetts will shock the nation by sending a Republican to complete Ted Kennedy’s term.

    Now back to the one term Presidency of Barack Obama. Unless this President makes some drastic changes in his Administration in January, the Democrats will lose in the midterm elections — and in no small way. The Republican Party which was once in the throes of death is about to make a comeback. More often than not this week, I have heard Bay State Democrats say “it should have been Hillary”. There is a sentiment of buyers’ remorse sweeping the party. In order for Democrats to hold on to majority status, they’ll use Mr. Obama as their scapegoat. It’s Jimmy Carter all over again. In 1980 it was Reagan. In 2012 it will be Romney. Heaven help us all.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Yeah, Silas, a person would have to be pretty messed up to inject sexual orientation into every last thing.

    Ah, the irony of it all. But seriously, Baronius, stupid, close minded people are attracted to rags like the Enquirer and The Globe. When standing in the checkout line, these headlines become Gospel for many an idiot. As long as we tolerate such irresponsibility, the rag mag syndrome continues.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    His being the first black president definitely makes for a higher burden. That said, I think he was more of a phenomenon (not unlike, in a way, in which Sarah Palin is), not quite seasoned for the office like Robert Kennedy would have been if he were not assassinated. So yes, I was supporting Hillary all along, though once he won the nomination, I supported him. And for a while, the signs were promising.

    So yes, I think he will be scapegoated for the Democratic party overreaching – they feared the Clinton machine. It may have been a nice symbolic gesture to elect the first black president, but if it’s going to be more than that, he’ll have to prove his mettle. Hasn’t done it yet, though there is still time.

  • Mark

    I thought Barack Obama was a different kind of politician. I should have known better…

    qft

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    qft? Forgive my ignorance. Does that mean Quite Friggin’ True?

  • http://marksaleski.com Mark Saleski

    stupid, close minded people are attracted to rags like the Enquirer and The Globe.

    they’re attracted to bc too.

  • Mark

    quoted for truth, though yours works too.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    No accusation of ignorance intended, Silas. You were just hoping, just like many of us. “Hope and Change,” remember? Just a human foible.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Hasn’t done it yet, though there is still time.

    Having said that, Roger, do you think Mr. Obama should begin the second year of his Presidency with a wholesale change in staff? Is it time for Geithner to go? Should he replace several of his seasoned Democrat operatives with a more pragmatic, diplomacy oriented staff? Is Rahm Emmanuel an asset? Absent a dramatic shift in the Obama paradigm, the Democrats are going to suffer severe losses in 2010. And, let’s face it, Democrats have a splendid history of missing opportunities.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    they’re attracted to bc too.

    Yeah, but we’re a better caliber of people. Most of us don’t worship at the altar of WalMart.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    If anything, the changes should be instituted during this term. But the million dollar question is – is he a person of his own mind? Thus far, I’m far from certain because Geithner and Summers shouldn’t be appointed in the first place – too close a connection to Wall Street. And the same goes for lukewarm Bernanke, a holdover from the Greenspan era. The stimulus plan, thus far, benefited the corporate villains rather than the people. So that’s my greatest concern. The average Joe is out of a job and the prospects don’t look good. No wonder he’s being opposed on every turn. We can afford a Tiger Woods fuck up, but not Obama’s. Yet, that’s the perception.

  • Baronius

    Silas, what would President Obama have his economic advisors do differently? I think he genuinely believes that the best things he can do for the economy are healthcare and cap-and-trade legislation. I don’t think he believes that he’s made any bad deals in the stimulus and bailouts. Obama would only be getting rid of his economic advisors for appearance.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Obama

    Why should he be anything new? Did the state suddenly stop functioning like a state?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    But he were supposed to take the state where no state has been before.

  • doug m

    Whose being passive?

    Am curious what Romney will bring to table in ’12 when he failed in ’08. Maybe he should have used his great business skills to bribe the IOC again to get the Olympics in Chicago

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Sounds to me like it’s time to bring back my BlogTalk Radio Show, Cindy. Would you come chat? I’m thinking about getting back into it starting a week from today. Only this time it’ll be weekly, consistent and topical.

    Silas, what would President Obama have his economic advisers do differently?

    I just don’t know, Baronius. I think we’re in a situation where we haven’t really figured out what all the right answers are. All I know is Richard Nixon’s visit to China began the slippery slope. The economic mess we are in today is the direct result of Republican (Nixon, Reagan, Bush I & II) economic policies which favored the few and forgot the rest. Of course, that doesn’t negate Bill Clinton’s culpability in the mess and that’s something that deserves our attention as well.

    Filling an Administration with Goldman-Sachs executives presents an appearance of impropriety which is unsettling. I haven’t written off Barack Obama yet — I just wish he would be more Reagan-esque — not in policy but in delivering his message. This country needs a leader with vision and a clarity free of special interests and politics as usual. He was given the mandate, he has yet to deliver.

    Why should he be anything new? Did the state suddenly stop functioning like a state?

    OK, Cindy, I’ll bite. When did the state actually stop functioning as a state and became the subsidiary of corporate interests? I’m all for a free marketplace and the entrepreneurial spirit; however, there has to be a compassion and understanding that we must take care of our own. We have more in common with the waning days of the Roman Empire than we do with our founders.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Except that on Cindy’s view, and mine, it’s a grand illusion to think of the State in such vainglorious terms.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Yeah, but we’re a better caliber of people. Most of us don’t worship at the altar of WalMart.

    What do you mean? Are you dissing poor people?

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Not at all, Cindy. I see more poor people shopping at Target, believe it or not. I’ve noticed that WalMarts on the edge of more “affluent” neighborhoods are the ones raking in the dough. Stores in poorer neighborhoods are not performing as well compared to last year’s figures.

    What’s concerning me at present is that even the poor can’t afford to shop at WalMart any longer because they’re trying to choose between clothing and putting food on the table.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    When did the state actually stop functioning as a state and became the subsidiary of corporate interests?

    The state has always functioned to provide for the interests of the wealthy. That has never changed. Not since the state was initiated. What has changed is who the wealthy are..now they happen to include huge corporations.

    I’m all for a free marketplace…

    Here we disagree. I oppose profit markets and corporations entirely. I feel that they are injurious to human nature, they promote superficial and often anti-human values and they create mental unwellness and in people.

    …and the entrepreneurial spirit

    That I support as it is creative and does not require a profit market.

    however, there has to be a compassion and understanding that we must take care of our own.

    Indubitably. That is the only way of living that I find worthwhile to support.

    We have more in common with the waning days of the Roman Empire than we do with our founders.

    Have you considered that you may be idealizing the founders? Here is how I see it.

    They were wealthy and wanted power and decision making to remain in the hands of the wealthy. The U.S. had already started screwing over the average citizen whilst he was still fighting in the revolutionary war (by selling his mortgaged farm out from under him in favor of banks). Tax accommodations were to begin to favor the huge producer and injure the small producer–see the whiskey rebellion. They were slave owners. Women did not vote. They slaughtered the Indians and stole their land.

    There is just so much indoctrinated pride and myth about freedom and bravery surrounding the foundering fathers that it is hard to see that they were just a pack of rich assholes that tried to make the rules in the favor of their own class. Of course they wanted equality–but only amongst themselves–only for the people who mattered–the rest could go hang.

    I don’t support states or corporations or free markets or representative government. I believe in direct democracy and consensus.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Cindy,

    I remain an Obama supporter, but I am sorely disappointed in his decision to up the ante in Afghanistan. I suppose it was inevitable.

    Obama is far more a centrist than most of us lefties wanted to admit during the campaign. He has shown that he intends to walk pretty much down the middle of the road – maybe even crossing into righty territory – when it comes to the military and some other issues.

    Frankly, I believe that if we sent ten times the # of troops and spent 10 years in an all out effort, the end would be the same as that experienced by the Soviets and everyone else who has ventured there with notions of nation building or domination. Afghanistan simply will not be tamed or transmogrified into some semblance of even the 20th century world. It remains essentially a 10th century tribal society armed with 21st century weapons. It will be an even more ignominious defeat when, in 2 years or 10, we look back at all the wasted lives, wasted money, wasted resources.

    Vietnam was not worth one life – American or otherwise – nor was Iraq, nor now is Afghanistan.

    I do believe that had we gone into Afghanistan and completed the job at hand – that of decimating Al Qaida, perhaps capturing or killing Osama and his cohorts, it might have been worth some sacrifice. But Bush fucked that up. Now Obama is sadly heading in the same direction.

    Ultimately, the Taliban or something like it will regain control of the area – perhaps Pakistan as well along with their fine collection of nukes.

    It is likely that the biggest loosers in all this will be the women. Their rights, their lives will be lost in the shuffle of war, diplomacy, bureaucracy and idiot religious zealotry. Their plight will once again go unnoticed.

    B

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    B,

    Vietnam was not worth one life – American or otherwise – nor was Iraq, nor now is Afghanistan.

    Quoted for truth…

    Les Slater challenged me when I said ‘we’ the way you are saying ‘we’. I am tailoring this comment for you, but he suggested it would be helpful not to align myself with those I disagree with about such serious issues as life or death. It really was a very helpful bit of advice and made a big difference in my thinking.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    104

    Thanks for the clarification. I was puzzled.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    The “we” should start becoming an increasingly more encompassing term – to denote all of humanity rather than the nation-states and their perverted interests. Once we rid ourselves of those increasingly archaic and soon out-of-date notions, the better. Only then true freedom and liberty and pursuit of happiness can reign in the context of autonomous or semi-autonomous communities. The “new world order” may yet prove to be a beneficial thing, certainly more promising than anything we have experienced thus far. It’s time to think of all humanity as one.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    As for Silas’s well intended distinction between WalMart and Target customers, it’s all the same to me. Conspicuous and vulgar consumption has become America’s trademark and the statement of the average intelligence. It’s difficult to empathize with either group – even the so-called poor. The American choice is not between clothes and food on the table, only between things we think we need and those we only marginally need. Either option verges on the obscene.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    I think Les was intending to help me see my interests are not in line with the state’s interests, Roger. A suggestion that I don’t sleep with my enemy. You seem to be going in the opposite direction, there, bring all of humanity into bed together with the state.

  • Baronius

    Silas – I disagree with your analysis in comment #101, but the origin of the problem doesn’t matter. The truth is closer to what Baritone said. Obama isn’t the lefty the Left wanted or the moderate the Center wanted. No official’s ever what his supporters wanted, exactly, because campaigns are fantasy and governing’s reality. Crushes are easy; marriages are hard. With that in mind, what do you think a different economic team would have done differently under President Obama?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Not the state (reread my #109). But it’s different when it comes to people. Remember the medic part. We can’t give them up for lost. There is an obligation to bring all into the (right) fold.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    “what do you think a different economic team would have done differently under President Obama?”

    A more radical departure from the old business-government model forging an unholy alliance – something you would call a more “socialistic” approach without apology of any kind. Obama or no Obama, we are all moving in that direction.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    I’m not sure who you mean by “we,” Roger. Count me out, for one. And my views are fairly representative of center-left Obama supporters. All Republicans and tea-party independents would oppose Socialism [or “socialism”] too. So who does that leave? And, by the way, how are you going to win elections to get this done?

    The center nearly always wins in US politics.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Are you SO American that you fail to identify with the rest of humanity. But that ought to be everyone’s most enlightened perspective and vision. And if winning elections is more important than doing what’s right, for the country, and the nation, and the rest of the world, then how different are you, Handy, from all the Republicans you so openly despise?

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    And although it is not a popular opinion here among either the right or left, I’ll say it again anyway because I am completely convinced I’m correct:

    Like everyone else, Bernanke, Geithner and Summers failed to see the crisis coming in 2007 and early 2008. But once the crisis was apparent, they acted responsibly and effectively.

    And you can thank them for the fact that we did not enter Great Depression II this year.

    Jobs will come. There is no magic wand for creating jobs. Companies have to get past their panic mode and become confident again. It will happen.

    Pretending that the problem is Obama’s ‘socialism’ [per the right] or his cozying up to Wall St [per the left] is just easy scapegoating…. and intellectually lazy.

    And obviously, both right and left can’t be right about this.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Well, Roger, without a government to create policy, your socialistic fantasy will remain in your head.

    How else would it become reality? A few good people squint, press their temples real hard, and magically all economic problems are solved?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    “But once the crisis was apparent, they acted responsibly and effectively.”

    That remains to be seen. You’re still beholden, Handy, to the old capitalist model of production of goods, services and general happiness, a model which has clearly failed and has shown itself for its inherent limitations. So yes, some kind of “socialism” is the way out of the box, coupled with radical departure from the old notion of the nation-states – another soon to be debunked idea.

    I don’t want Obama to fail, I want him to succeed. But we need a new and more inspiring model than more of the same. And it will come about, believe me, with Obama’s help or without.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Yes, you need a government, far more centralized, I daresay, than what obtains in the present – there’s no other way out in the present, the world quickly becoming a global village.

    See, I’m not an anarchist, like Cindy. But with nation-states out of the picture, there will be a real possibility of a moral government, because the interests of one will be interests of all. No petty squabbles or jealousies, just united and concerted action for the goodness of all.

    That’s the best case scenario, and far from a dream. Just imagine what would be the human response be when faced by the invasion of the aliens. Well, we’ve got to start thinking along those terms, as though we faced extermination.

    John Lennon’s song, “Imagine,” comes to mind. I hope you’re with me.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    If you can find a convincing way to connect your dream to a plausible mechanism to make it a reality, I can at least discuss being with you.

    But you’re still a long way from that.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I am not talking about a dream, Handy. Globalism and world government are both knocking on our door. I’m kind of surprised you fail to detect this in the tenor and policies of the present administration.

    My only complaint is – they’re rather timid about it rather than going at it full speed ahead.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I happen to think you’re rather shocked about the extent to which I propose the expansion of federalism. Isn’t that, really, why you choose to characterize my notion and ideas as dream. But try to take your notion of it to its logical extreme and see whether your position will be that different from mine – eradicating the notion of nation-states, nationalistic (read: parochial) interests, and global government.

    It’s only a matter of time.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Wow, so much upon which to comment.

    With that in mind, what do you think a different economic team would have done differently under President Obama?

    I just don’t know. My sentiment is that you can’t give the reins to the same people, day in and day out, who have been responsible for the mess to begin with. Well, wait a minute, we do need to blame ourselves as well. Roger’s comments about WalMart & Target and American consumerism are spot on.

    First, Nixon went to China. All of a sudden goods manufactured in the U.S. disappeared from shelves in favor of imported domestic goods at bargain prices. As a result, places like WalMart, Target and all these so-called “odd lot” stores sprang up.

    My maternal g-g-grandfather came here from County Kildare in 1870 to take advantage of the textile boom in the Northeast. He traveled throughout New England and Upstate New York opening textile mills and training labor. I grew up in the heart of textiles – Northern, Rhode Island & Central Mass. In fact, the City of Woonsocket, RI was known for weaving blankets that covered every soldier on the field of battle in World Wars I & II.

    In the 50’s things changed. Unions and greed kicked in. Textile mills moved South for cheaper labor and operating costs. And now, it’s near impossible to find a weave shop in the South. All the textiles are woven in Asia. Made in U.S.A. used to count for something until American consumers loved the notion of “things”. They got cheap, and everybody just had to have everything.

    When I was a kid (1960’s), I had one set of Sunday clothes, a pair of jeans, two sets of school uniforms, a week’s worth of underwear and sox. My bureau was in my closet. Today, I have a walk in closet, three bureaus and a wardrobe. I’m a testament to consumerism. As I ramble, I also come to the realization that Cindy’s not far off the mark, either.

    Our consumerism and insatiable need to keep up with the Joneses has been our downfall. The generation who hid money under the mattress because of their Depression years is dead. So here we are propagating an even more consumer intense generation. We’re so busy with our things that we’ve forgotten how to stop and smell the roses. We’ve substituted the special moments in life with reality shows and God knows what. Yep, the Republicans did it to us. So did the Democrats. The bottom line is that we did it to ourselves. We allowed ourselves this false sense of security by being apathetic to the political process. It really is time to get back to basics. And, maybe Cindy’s right, perhaps we have outgrown the capitalist model in its’ present form. We need to be more creative. We need to clean up the planet. We need to start taking our kids into consideration.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Your comment about Nixon visiting China, Silas, and the connection you’re making to the eventual demise of American industry/ies are most interesting. Of course, at the time, none of us saw the implications. We’ve all thought of it as a progressive thing to do. You may be on to something here.

    As to Cindy’s vision, that’s mine too. We need not only start taking our kids into consideration but the entire planet, humans, animals and minerals.

    As I tried to impress the point on Handy, the time of nation-states and petty and perverse national interests is over. Which is a good thing, because perhaps only in that context, never mind the American polity which is quickly loosing its relevance, can we hope for a truly moral system of governance.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    So, Roger, is it possible that “Progressives” ARE in fact CONSERVATIVES? When did Conservatism become synonymous with religiosity? And how is trying to save the planet, natural resources and fostering a more humane society “progressive”? To me it’s good old fashioned conservative common sense! And, maybe, that’s what Barack Obama should be promoting. Perhaps he should be rising above the buffoons in Congress and speaking directly to us, in human terms, about where we’re at.

    Insofar as the migration of manufacturing to China, it seems to me it all goes back to Richard Nixon and the Kissinger vision of the world. American corporations invested heavily in Asia at blowout prices. We got sucked in to our own greed. Now the Chinese are the holders of our mortgages. And in the end, the corporate executives sacrificed their fellow Americans at the altar of consumerism with not even a blink of an eye. And we fell upon those swords in some sick sense that we were fulfilling the American dream by accumulating things. So who really won World War II in Asia? In the end, Japan has achieved what it never would have dreamed possible were it not for its’ Imperialist foreign policies.

    When I was a kid I got my cousin Kenny’s hand-me-down Stride Rite shoes for school. The heels and soles, of course, had been replaced by the cobbler down the street. And when I grew out of those shoes, they made their way to a younger cousin. That’s the way it was. Today shoes wear out in a matter of months. Cobblers are a thing of American folklore. We’re a disposable society and in becoming the same we disposed of our common sense.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I don’t care about the name or the label, Silas. Progressive or conservative, it’s all the same to me. The important thing is, we’ve all got to move in the direction of a more comprehensive view of humanity, away from the parochial conception.

    It’s all to the good, with or without humans’ express desire or intent.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    I must agree with Roger regarding nationalism. The wonderful British essayist A.C. Grayling also stands in agreement.

    While we are deeply concerned with radical religious fundamentalism, it is also true that nationalism is essentially equal to religious zealotry in its destructiveness. The notion of “American exceptionalism” is not only bunk, it is at best insulting to most of the rest of the world. At its worst it marks us as delusional in the irrational belief that we are inherently superior to everyone else which sets us up for a hard fall. We are all Americans simply by the accident of our birth.

    While we have long felt – and perhaps rightly – that our particular constitutional system is superior to any other, as we know all too well, it has been so bastardized in practice (if not in print) over the years that it is hardly recognizable. George, Thom, John & Ben would probably shake their heads in dismay at what we have wrought out of their hard labor in the Philadelphia heat.

    However, I am not one who hankers back in the belief that we should return to our supposed governmental roots. The fact is, this country and the times in general have far outgrown our founding documents. That there are those who would amend our constitution for the sole purpose of depriving citizens of basic rights is perhaps a harbinger of worse things to come.

    We are on the verge of being a global society. I won’t live to see it, and perhaps no one alive today will witness it either, but it is coming, like it or not. It will be necessary to human survival. If it doesn’t come, it will mean that we have blown ourselves back to the stone age to start again (if any humans do survive.)

    Its coming will no doubt be violent and painful. If we think getting health care reform has been difficult, wait until the battle begins over the notion of a “one world” global government. Warning shots have already rung out with the collapse of the WTC. Nationalism and its cousin, regionalism will not go quietly, not to mention the ongoing tussle over religious crap.

    B

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Thanks for that reference, B-man. I will look him up.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    The following is a general entry on Grayling from Wiki.

    Can you provide the article from which you cited?

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    So the unemployment rate dropped in November [from 10.2% to 10.0%], and the job loss estimates for Sept and Oct have also been revised downward. Is there light at the end of this tunnel?

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Nationalism and its cousin, regionalism will not go quietly

    Considering there are now several dozen more sovereign nations in the world than there were 20 years ago, I’d say that’s a bit of an understatement, B-tone.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I hope so, Handy.

    As to Dreadful’s point, one could add the balkanization phenomenon along ethnic lines, which is still at full steam. So indeed, the transition to a more peaceful and united world is not going to be a picnic.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Indeed.

    The former Soviet Union is now about 20 separate states and the former Yugoslavia continues to fragment into smaller and smaller pieces. Czechoslovakia is now divided in two. Eritrea recently got independence from Ethiopia, East Timor likewise from Indonesia and there are countless nationalist and separatist movements throughout the world pursuing their aims with varying degrees of violence.

    In fact, the only two countries I can think of which have bucked the trend in recent times are Germany and Yemen.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Nonetheless, I still think the growing pressures forced by the globalization of the economy will ultimately prevail and result in formation of economic blocs first, geopolitical ones later on.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    But the [bumpy] rise of the EU in recent years goes against the trend too, Doc.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I regard the EU as THE TREND, a foretaste of the future, and the balkanization movement as the last gasp.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    But, Handy and Roger, there’s also a growing trend in Europe of resistance to the idea of the European Union – particularly in Britain, where the anti-EU UK Independence Party and British National Party are rapidly growing in strength and influence.

    At this juncture I’m not at all sure which way Europe will end up going.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Perhaps it’s a situation of sink or swim. Since Britain may be doing considerably better right now than other members of the EU, it’s natural they might want to do it alone.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    You might want to check on the Green Party’s stand on this issue.

    Rupert Read is quite a character. I corresponded with him a couple of times via email on some of his philosophical writing. Anyway, you might check it out.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Doc,

    Well as I said, I doubt that I’ll live to see it. I don’t expect anything overt or substantive to happen in that regard for some time. Nevertheless, there is an inexorable movement toward economic globalization that shows no signs of stopping. There will doubtless be a lot of resistance, and there will probably some die hard hold outs, but eventually – again assuming we avoid cataclysmic changes – that will be the only way to go. Anyhow, we have to move it along so we will be prepared to join the Federation of Planets. :)

    Roger,

    I can’t remember where I read the exact reference. I’ve read a # of his books which are mainly compilations of his essays. I did find this quote ironically in an article refuting his position:

    “Nationalism is an evil. It causes wars, its roots lie in xenophobia and racism.”

    Grayling is a good read. Give one of his books a shot. He expands over a # of topics.

    B

  • Baronius

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see more ad hoc alliances, but I wouldn’t read too much into them. International alliances shift. There’s always someone trying to dominate Europe, and a coalition trying to prevent it. The potential hegemon and the opposing coalition are both comprised of peoples that don’t get along that well. “United Europe” has seen Switzerland and Italy each challenge the legal order in the past week.

    And that pattern holds true not just for Europe, but South America, Southern Asia, Arabia, pretty much everywhere.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Right on, B-man. The Star Trek scenario is not that far-fetched.

    And yes, there will always be a need for a policeman, if only to prevent lawlessness. But with nation-states out of the picture, humans may yet arrive at the all-desirable state of moral governance, because it will be untainted by any suspicion of national interest.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    But Baronius. Necessity is the mother of invention. And it will become necessary for the world at large, all peoples and nations, to forge a united front – not to repel an attack by the aliens, but to be able to respond logically and coherently to the many impending problems, be they environment, energy-related, or whatever.

    I’d like to refer to Robert L Heilbroner’s classic, An Inquiry into the Human Prospect”, a truly prophetic work.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    What we need is a man with vision like Alexander the Great. If there is to be a new world order, let’s hope that we forge something that celebrates personal liberty and individual expression.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Good point, Silas. Alexander was a man of vision. One world, one law, freedom and liberty for all. Yet, it had to be won by the sword.

    The present circumstances are different, though. We shall be forced to go along because our survival as a species is at stake.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    But Alexander’s empire started to collapse as soon as he died and – without his extraordinary personality as the glue holding it together – was completely fragmented within a few years.

    Lessons?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    The time wasn’t ripe.