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Number of Cases of “Child Rape” Covered Up by Planned Parenthood in Illinois Remains Steady in 2004

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The latest set of abortion statistics have come out for Illinois that indicate Planned Parenthood and friends “covered up” at least 290 cases of child rape during the year 2004. Local media in the state seemed to miss this during their coverage of the latest statistics.

In Illinois, as in most of the civilized world, the age of consent means that girls under a certain age cannot legally consent to sex, and hence, any intercourse with them is rape. Illinois requires that medical professionals report any cases of child abuse to DCFS. In a case, documented here, where after being audited by a pro-life organization over the phone to see if they would follow mandatory reporting laws, about 90% of clinics appeared to indicate they would not report child rape to authorities. They tried to make a distinction between a medical professional and someone answering the phone, in this case it is obvious that a medical professional was involved, knew the girl’s age, and choose not to follow their obligations under the law to report. Contrary to their claims, no investigation is required by Planned Parenthood; they simply have to recognize the girl’s age and make a phone call so there can be an appropriate investigation. Instead, they choose to make money on the deal by charging for the abortion and then concealing the fact that there was a crime. This is Planned Parenthood’s apparent business model.

At the same time they are making a profit by covering up the rape of little girls by dirty old men, they insist that parents should not be allowed to interfere and have no right to know that their children are getting abortions. In fact, in a case of clear kidnapping, rape, and fraud by a child rapist’s mother, Planned Parenthood had the mother of the daughter who was raped arrested for trying to prevent the abortion. Planned Parenthood will even write prescriptions to non-existent minors they have never seen in what they even admit is against the law.

Planned Parenthood can proudly boast on their own website that they cover up cases of child rape. The irony of this portion of the pro-choice debate is that the only who gets a choice is the rapist who can choose to cover his tracks.

Originally posted at Part-Time Pundit

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About John Bambenek

John Bambenek is a political activist and computer security expert. He has his own company Bambenek Consulting in Champaign, IL that specializes in digital forensics and computer security investigations.
  • http://www.vespaquest.com Justene

    I am unaware of anyone being arrested, charged, indicted, arraigned or otherwise formally accused of a crime for failure to report. If there is such a proceeding, I expect Planned Parenthood to argue the constitutionality of the law.

    By the way, I am unfamiliar with Illinois law. Is it a requirement for rape that the male be over a certain age? If so, Planned Parenthood may only suspect rape.

  • http://darkeroticism.blogspot.com swingingpuss

    In fact, in a case of clear kidnapping, rape, and fraud by a child rapist’s mother, Planned Parenthood had the mother of the daughter who was raped arrested for trying to prevent the abortion.

    To force a rape victim to give birth is barbaric.

  • Bennett

    Exactly Justene, and something JB doesn’t want to talk about.

    Illinois has a rather typical 17-13 law. If the male is 17 or younger, and the girl is 13 or over and gives her consent, it’s NOT rape.

    Facts always tend to diffuse JB’s rants. Facts tend to show his “covering up the rape of little girls by dirty old men” as just another overblown straw man.

  • http://selfaudit.blogspot.com Aaman

    If the law is flawed, disobedience is often an option, IANAL

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    covering up the rape of little girls by dirty old men

    Of course there is no mention here that the rapist is, in more cases than not, the father. What irony there would be, in having to report TO the rapist, and get HIS permission for the abortion, as Mr. Bambenek would have it.

    It’s absurd to think that there would be so many Illinois parents who do not know the whereabouts of their minors and there are all these ‘dirty little old men’ all over the place. Rather, they are the fathers, more often than not. If not, then are the parents not negligent to begin with?

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    Of course there is no mention here that the rapist is, in more cases than not, the father.

    For clarification, I meant the father of the victim.

  • Bennett

    Steve, I’d bet dollars to donuts that less than 1% of the abortions performed on girls under the age of 18 were the result of non-consensual sex.

    So, that means that maybe 2-3 of these 290 girls were actually “raped”.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    Bennett, I’m sure that many instances involve the consent of the minor (which isn’t legally possible, I know). In most father/daughter rape cases, it isn’t the type of violent rape we might see in a Lifetime movie, but consensual as well, even if the consent is born of fear.

    Here is a link from the Illinois State Police. I would like to draw your attention to the first sentence in the third paragraph.

  • Bennett

    I do understand that Steve, thanks! But what I object to is JB’s use of the term “child rape” to demonize Planned Parenthood.

    It’s a lie, and he knows it.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    We are in agreement, Bennett. In Bambenek’s world there are thousands of Illinois daughters who fall into the hands of strangers yearly.

  • http://www.vespaquest.com Justene

    I suspect that it’s somewhere in the middle. Some of them are rapes. Some of them are consensual acts that are still rape under the statutory rape law. Some of them are kids having sex with kids. When I was underage, any underage girl I knew who was having sex was having it with an underage boy. So JB is technically accurate when he says they are not reporting some child rape. I just don’t know how extensive the problem is.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    So JB is technically accurate when he says they are not reporting some child rape.

    I wouldn’t doubt that, the problem would be that we are leaving it up to Planned Parenthood to do the investigating to determine if they should report it or not. They are a medical clinic, not private investigators.

    Any predatory father who rapes his daughter will have used deception and treachery as well as threats to get her to keep his little ‘secret’. It should not be up to Planned Parenthood to determine who the rapist is, and whether a crime has been committed or not.

  • Dawn

    This is really pathetic. Is this an Onion parody, because I can’t imagine anyone thinking this is legitimate reporting of any kind.

    Any report being handled and documented by a pro-life organization against a facility that administers abortion is suspect at best.

  • gonzo marx

    Dawn sez…
    *because I can’t imagine anyone thinking this is legitimate reporting of any kind.*

    Quoted for Truth

    Excelsior!

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    To answer Justene’s question, a mandatory reporter does not have to be convinced, it has to reasonably suspect. If a twelve year old comes in heavily bruised to the ER, DCFS gets called. It could be she fell down the stairs, it could be something else. It’s for DCFS to figure out. That’s mandatory reporting laws.

    To answer others, sure, fathers (or more accurately step-fathers) or other family members are often perpetrators to these crimes, that’s why we have mandatory reporter statutes that require a THIRD party to get involved to investigate.

    Planned Parenthood DOES NOT HAVE TO INVESTIGATE, I could not have been clearer in my post. It isn’t their job to determine what really happened, it’s there job to take a case that could reasonably be rape, assault, or any abuse really, and report it so IT CAN be investigated. Instead, they send a bill, collect their cash, and lobby to get rid of the laws.

  • Bennett

    “Planned Parenthood DOES NOT HAVE TO INVESTIGATE, I could not have been clearer in my post.

    Where is that? Did I miss something? Were you clear about something?

    It isn’t their job to determine what really happened, it’s there (ed. “their”) job to take a case that could reasonably be rape, assault, or any abuse really (ed. Blow jobs and sodomy? But no one gets pregnant!?!), and report it so IT CAN be investigated. Instead, they send a bill, collect their cash, and lobby to get rid of the laws.

    Link please.

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    See the bold words in the second paragraph? Sentence before that.

    I’m not saying it’s a catchall, but being that they also provide birth control services and STD prevention services, when a 12 year old comes in asking for that stuff, one should perhaps get someone else involved.

    Link to what? Mandatory reporter laws? Or that the charge for abortions?

  • Bennett

    What puke! You link to your own blog for “This is Planned Parenthood’s apparent business model.” and your ravings there are even more vile that what the editors let you get away with here on BC!

    Dude, get a grip!!!

    Stark raving is what I say.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    when a 12 year old comes in asking for that stuff, one should perhaps get someone else involved.

    If a 12 year old simply asks for something, you should call the law? Egads. So what should the officer do? A vaginal checkup? Interrogation?

    You mention that when someone comes into the ER, they will notify the law if the injury is massive or looks like the evidence of a crime. This is true, when I was the victim of a hate crime, I was about 20 years old, certainly no minor, and the law was notified against my own wishes. I do not think even the ER should notify the law, I believe it should be entirely up to the victim.

    If Planned Parenthood needed to notify the police so that the police could investigate to see if a crime is being committed, then the fact is that the police would need to investigate each and every case because with a minor it (sex) is always illegal so in each and every case a crime has been committed. (Except where it was consensual with another minor and varies by state, etc.)

    Why I oppose Planned Parenthood notifying the law is the same reason why I opposed it in my case where I was a victim. Because you are completely trampling on one’s right to privacy and when it comes to abortion, that right should supercede all others.

    Of course once you get the law involved, then it becomes easy for you to stop the abortion and that’s what this is really all about.

  • http://selfaudit.blogspot.com Aaman

    You have no idea what it is to have the law involved in every medical issue/emergency – in India, for example, the legal requirement that every accident/medical complication other than illness,etc. be registered with the police leads to ludicruous situations where people are literally bleeding to death because the doctor/nurse will not treat them without registering a police case.

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    Bennett, I’m sorry, I have to remember that we are to look the other way when “favored” organizations commit crimes.

    Steve, well it’s either that or get rid of age of consent law. Being the support is the way it is, there is no reason someone who cannot legally consent to have sex should be getting Depo, is there? You have a point for a 20 year old, but not a minor. But that’s an opinion, one not reflected by the law. But yes, that would mean we’d actually have to investigate cases of child rape, I fail to see why that’s a bad thing. I fail to see the logic in supporting the privacy right of a 30-40 year old rapist that likes 10 year old girls. And you can make it anything you want, I don’t want little girls raped.

    Aaman-

    I didn’t say every case or emergency. And I certainly don’t think emergency treatment should wait. But pregnancy is about 9 months. That’s hardly something that required immediate action before picking up a phone.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    I fail to see the logic in supporting the privacy right of a 30-40 year old rapist

    Way to contort one’s words to fit your agenda. I was talking about the right to privacy of the victim and used myself as an example. Of course only Bambenek would twist the words around to make it seem like those who don’t agree with him support rapists.

    And you can make it anything you want, I don’t want little girls raped.

    You are clearly the one who makes it anything you want. Nobody wants little girls raped. Planned parenthood reporting to the law who gets an abortion won’t stop that, anybody with a smidgen of common sense knows that.

  • Shark

    ~feh.

    More disinformation at the speed of light.

    PS: Bambi, abortion is sooooo 1990s.

    Get with the program! Send Alito some luv!

  • Shark

    Dawn: “This is really pathetic. Is this an Onion parody…”

    Bambenek has quite an archive of Onion articles on Blogcritics!

    Funny stuff, eh?!

  • RedTard

    “If the law is flawed, disobedience is often an option” – Aaman

    As long as I get to be the one who decides which laws are flawed.

    I doubt people who are in the business of killing human spawn are really concerned about cases of child rape.

  • http://www.fifthdentist.blogspot.com The Fifth Dentist

    Dawn: “This is really pathetic. Is this an Onion parody…”

    Technically this article is a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham. To constitute a parody, it would need to intersect with realiy in a non-inconsequentiallynon-insane

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    Travishamockery?

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    Steve S-

    Contorting words happens all around, and you were doing it a few posts ago. Yes, reporting WOULD stop it, because DCFS would investigate and arrest the perp. Explain to me how arresting rapists does not stop their abuse of little girls? I didn’t think they were allowed conjugal visits by their victims behind bars…

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Bambi, it doesn’t stop it because most of the time they get out on a plea bargain or the victim refuses to testify so they are free to rape again.

    Dave

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    Which is an entirely different problem. Though as I recall, even if they plea it out, they aren’t allowed to have contact with the victim ever again, generally. So it least it stops that child’s victimization.

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    I think a better story to report on is the ring of teenage prostitution uncovered by the Toledo Blade.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    John Bambenek, I would be the first to stand by your side to help stop child predators and child rapists. Requiring planned parenthood to report to the federal government on who gets an abortion does nothing to further that end. It does further your agenda on outlawing all abortion though.

    Just wait until your side gets Alito on the supreme court and abortion is banned again anyway and the whole thing becomes moot and your side wins.

  • Dawn

    JB, you aren’t “contorting” words you are just plain making stuff up. Planned Parenthood’s job is first and foremost to “plan for parenthood” not to prevent rape from occurring. That’s really a law enforcer’s job, an individual’s job, society’s job, a parent’s job, concerned citizen’s job, blah blah blah. Planned Parenthood is there is provide a service either before conception has occurred, or in some cases after.

    If a person came in and said “I was raped and need help.” I can assure you that Planned Parenthood would be on the side of that victim in whatever legal or humane way that they deemed possible.

    Clearly this fabricated and twisted story is being used to foist your opinions of abortion onto the masses, so save us the anguish and confusion and just say, “Hey, I am against abortion and here’s why dammit!” and stop pretending to be doing a Woodward and Bernstein number here, because even conservative readers aren’t going to buy this huge steaming load.

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    The mandatory reporter laws do not require reports to the federal government. The do require reports to local law enforcement. Planned Parenthood, at least the medical professionals, are bound by clear and solid law to report cases of child abuse, period. There is no dispute on this. Being on the side of the victim does not entail cleaning up evidence of the crime and letting the perp walk. Whether the abortion happens or not is an aside, the fact that they let the perps continue to walk is the issue.

    You can call it fabricated all you want. The facts are clear, they are replicated with not only government data, but Planned Parentood’s OWN data, and they are enabling rapists. It’s that simple.

  • Dawn

    I am not sure that an anonymous comment on a website can be construed as valid data for your point.

    Not to mention the fact, it’s up to the victim to report the rape to the authorities, not an agency that provides birth control planning and abortions. How can they possibly be expected to be responsible for that?

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    Because the law makes them reponsible. Medical professionals are REQUIRED by law to report suspected cases of child abuse. It’s on the books, I’m pretty sure in all 50 states but certainly Illinois. It isn’t hard. Some 10 year old comes in looking like she got her face kicked in, you call the police. She comes in pregnant, you call the police. I fail to see how this is some huge monumental burden because it happens every day in every emergency room in this country now.

  • Bennett

    How many 10 year olds get abortions in Illinois each year? Do you have that number, JB?

    How many 13-17 year olds?

    What determines suspicion? Just because a girl decides that having a baby at 15 is not a good idea, doesn’t mean that she was raped, or that her partner in sex is over 17 years of age.

    You spin this into a black and white set of circumstances, i.e.
    “A battered ten year old was raped by a dirty old man, and Planned Parenthood COVERS IT UP!!!!!!

    Puh-leeze.

  • Dawn

    That’s exactly right Bennett! John you are parading around this headliner that translates into “Planned Parenthood Rapes Children,” or some such nonsense and act like we are supposed to accept this hogwash as fact, when in truth, the exact examples which you are outraged for are either non-existent or far more the exception than the rule.

    Rape and underage sex between minors are TWO entirely different things. One is forced and one is not. Both can have the same result and how is planned parenthood supposed to know?

    You won’t find anyone as outraged by young girls being raped as much as I am (do a search on BC for my articles about such matters) but that’s not who the majority of people who end up at Planned Parenthood are.

    I also seriously doubt any 10-year old girl with her face kicked in is showing up at Planned Parenthood asking for an abortion. That’s a really ridiculous example for about a dozen different reasons.

    I can’t imagine a facility of that nature isn’t following the appropriate laws. Those places are ALWAYS being hasseled and monitored.

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    Thank you for demonstration why you continue to lose and lose elections, instead of addressing the points you make personal attacks.

    I’m done with this discussion.

    You lose.

  • Dawn

    I didn’t run for any office, so I haven’t lost any elections that I know (‘cept that Sexiest Female Blogger award – and I didn’t even try very hard.)

    I am not sure your point about personal attacks, as I didn’t personally attack you. I did point out in no uncertain terms that this post is bunch of smelly bullcrap, but I have said nothing about you personally. I will say this though, you are being a big crybaby.

    So I guess that means you LOST.

  • Bennett

    That’s funny JB, we call you on your misrepresentation of facts, ask that you back up your assertions and generalizations with numbers, and you pitch a fit, get all huffy an such, and walk out…

    No one attacked you personally, but we do call it like we see it. Get used to it.

  • http://selfaudit.blogspot.com Aaman

    King Kong’s lucky he didn’t take Dawn O up that building:)

  • Shark

    Bambi: “I’m done with this discussion. You lose.”

    NEW HEADLINE:

    Number of Cases of Right-Wing Essayist Asswhoopin’ Perpetrated By Astute Pack of Parsing Blogcritics Remains Steady in 2006

    …at ONE.

    (But the day is young!)

  • http://www.fifthdentist.blogspot.com The Fifth Dentist

    Nice job Dawn. [Deleted]

  • Dawn

    If I have learned one thing about Blogcritics, you either need to know what you are talking about (which I only occasionally do) or be thickskinned, ‘cuz this isn’t your average pack of sinister bloggers.

    Dude, seriously, you didn’t expect to write a flamethrower of a post and not get some on ya, did ya?

    It happens to everyone at least once, so don’t go all cranky on us. Just substantiate your assertions, or be willing to take the abuse.

    And I wasn’t attacking you personally, really.

  • Bennett

    After the fact of the whuppin’ you’ll note.

  • Bing

    Planned Parenthood is covering up rape so they can continue to make a profit on abortion?

    Well Duh…. they are in the aboriton business and they gotta protect that bottom line.

    Kinda ironic that they call themselves PLanned Parenthood when they do everything they can to prevent thier clients from actually becoming parents.

    Oh well at least when Alito gets confirmed it will be a little bit harder for Planned Abortionhood to conduct thier dastardly and despicable deeds.

  • http://selfaudit.blogspot.com Aaman

    Batman to the rescue, etc.?

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    You couldn’t be closer to the truth, Aaman.

  • http://www.freedomfolks.blogspot.com Jake Jacobsen

    How nice to see upstanding folk take the side of pedophiles and rapists, does my heart good to see it. Is there any other nasty business we must ignore for your precious abortion, or does underage rape pretty much cover it?

  • Bennett

    Yeah, I’m biased. When I was seventeen and wanting to get layed, the sixteen year old was there, knocking. Thank goodness PP was available.

    This was in 1976 – truth.

    Take my word for it, it wasn’t rape.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    It is comments like comment 51 that show us that the ideological right will assign motives to us no matter what we truly believe. They will tell us what we represent and who we are fighting for. They are ideologically closed, there is no point in debate. You would get farther debating roadkill.

  • http://selfaudit.blogspot.com Aaman

    You meant comment 50

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    Steve, and your side would NEVER assign motives like suggesting that people who are against statutory rape are really just trying to stop abortions…

    No, that never happens on your side, you’re all pillars of moral and truth and light. It us damn reprobates who refuse to get on the boxcars that are the cause of the problems.

  • gonzo marx

    damnit John B….try and at least deal with the Individual and the points he is making, as soon as you say
    *your side*
    about anything, you lose IQ points

    valid points have been brought up here, everything from attempting to emotionally charge the Issue at hand by the fallacious “child rape” bit in the title , rather than the correct “statutory”

    again, you lose Honesty Points when you attempt shit like that, and it does the Cause you are striving for NO good when you attempt tactics like that

    why?..because once a reader notices that bit and the propagandist slant…you fall into partisan ideaologue instead of any kind of journalism

    now, in the Article itself, you raise some decent points for discussion, even if some of it is inaccurate ( the actual numbers are way skewed by your dodge of claiming the entire “consent” bit as making anything other than of age sex “rape)…

    because, as others have Commented…quite a lot of it is between kids themselves…there are also variations in the “age of consent”…from as low as 13 to 17…and the circumstances for statutory infractions also depend on the jurisdiction…some are only for those over 18 and those below the “consent” number

    since you place the prime Postulate of the Equation in question by pooryly defining the Variables…the entire logical weight of your Argument collapses, and all that is left is the attempt at emotional charge

    NOBODY sane , and certainly NOBODY here on BC is advocating “rape” in the sense of forced or adult/child incidents…

    however, even you must admit that you have done NOTHING to clarify what percentage of the numbers you cite fall into those categories

    to do so woudl be very difficult, because Planned Parenthood does it’s best to protect the PRIVACY of those seeking help when offering ANY of it’s services, from medical, to educational or contraceptive

    now, while i understand you have objection to some of the medical practices available there, even you must be able to admit the valuable services offered in the healthcare, educational, counselling and pre-natal care administered by the organization…

    hell, if nothing else, their crusade against STD’s alone should be enough for you to think more deeply about them and to try harder to get your facts in order

    nuff said?

    Excelsior!

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    yes, I meant comment 50. Thanks Aaman and sorry Bennett.

    okay, John, in comment 54, you have a point. However, I DO believe that you have an agenda to stop abortion, since you have blogged about it often, although I haven’t been to this site in 5 months or more, when I was a member here you seemed to blog about it frequently. Not just about pregnant children but abortion in general. I formulate my opinion based on that. Also on the fact like gonzo points out, they do far more in terms of family planning and ‘your side’ so quickly dismisses it all.

    So I admit I DO think you have an agenda, based on reading you over a period of time. So be truthful, do you believe people like myself REALLY want to defend rapists?

  • Shark

    #47 Bing: “…Planned Parenthood is covering up rape so they can continue to make a profit on abortion? …they are in the aboriton [sic] business and they gotta protect that bottom line.”

    Anecdote Warning: My wife the RN (specializing in Women’s Health) used to work (briefly) for Planned Parenthood; she said in the 2 years she was with a particular clinic, 100% of the pregnant teens (usually 13-17 yrs old) WERE IMPREGNATED BY THEIR TEENAGED BOYFRIENDS (who apparently, had little contraceptive info — and were using the ol’ “abstain” method…?).

    Mrs. Shark spent 100% of her time doing women’s health, including general OB/Gyn exams, education, and STD treatments, etc.

    Never saw nor counseled an abortion.

    But don’t let reality cloud yall’s little erection for women’s freedom.

    ==========

    BTW, folks; Current pharmacolgy/technology is about to make the abortion debate OBSOLETE.

    Praise Juju.

    Can we be done with this?!

  • Shark

    #54 – John Bambenek
    January 12 – 12:18 AM:

    “…your side… reprobates… moral.. truth… light… your side…” yada yada yada…

    Whoa! Whoa there, Johnny!

    You took your toys and went home.

    Remember: “I’m done with this discussion”–?

    And just for your info, when you left the room, things lightened up considerably!

    Everybody started laffin’ and jokin’… I lit a joint and passed it around. We popped the top on a few beers… tried to get Dawn to do a lap dance for the Brilliant But Flaccid Gonzo…

    Man, we were havin’ a BLAST!

    So go back to your room, and next time — before you throw a tantrum and beat a hasty retreat in anger — you might wanna think about it.

    Oh, and by the way: you can come out when you can smile at your guests.

    Thanks,
    Paternal Shark

  • Shark

    #50 Jake Jacobsen, The Voice of Reason sez: “How nice to see upstanding folk take the side of pedophiles and rapists… Is there any other nasty business we must ignore for your precious abortion, or does underage rape pretty much cover it?”

    Jake, great stuff, but you left out the part about how we celebrated on 9/11, are out to undermine the morale of the troops in Iraq, intend to take your guns and your property and give them away to welfare crack moms, and want to turn Christmas into a pagan orgy.

    Get with the program, dude.

    Thanks in advance,
    Shark
    [lighting another joint using a burning american flag — while he performs an abortion on a sexually active doughy-white republican 10 year old nun]

  • Bing

    Post #57

    I’d just like to point out that the single largest source of revenue and profit at Planned Parenthood is abortion.

    Also just because your wife worked for one PP clinic among the thousands in the nation and never saw a case where PP covered up for an older man who had raped a young girl does not mean it does not happen Shark.

    NO matter how you liberals want to spin it PP is int he abortion businessand they will do anything to be allowed to perform them wether it’s objecting to parental notification laws or covering up rape. End of story

  • http://www.ogresview.mu.nu Ogre

    Wow.

    I’ve never seen such blind, unending support of criminal acts before. I had always thought that Blogcritics was a non-partisan type place, but man, I was confused. I’m not sure the DU is this far out there.

    Feel free to hate me because I’m not actually performing an abortion on someone else as I type this.

  • Dawn
      “Feel free to hate me because I’m not actually performing an abortion on someone else as I type this.

    Well thank heavens, ‘cuz I would like to think that the medical community is a little pickier than that.

    What has struck me lately with all the Alito hearings and all the conversatives giddiness over their relative closeness to finally banning abortion, is that it’s not the clinics and the institutions like PP who will suffer, (there’s just not that many abortion clinics out there, and PP will just diversify their services like they always have)- the only people being truly hurt and trampled on, are the women and teenage girls who will be forced to endure a difficult and tramatic medical event that they were either not equipped for or emotionally prepared for, not to mention all the children born to mothers who can’t or won’t take care of them because they never wanted them to begin with.

    The issue of this article isn’t about statutory rape or child rape – duh. The issue is abortion. JB doesn’t care about ten-year-old girls being raped, he cares about abortions being performed.

    My question is this – when and where in your life John has an abortion procedure being performed ever harmed you personally? Or is this some religious horseshit that you are droning on about?

    Dude, don’t worry you aren’t going to ever have to worry about going to hell for having an abortion. Trust me, your seat in heaven is secure.

  • RedTard

    “My question is this – when and where in your life John has an abortion procedure being performed ever harmed you personally? Or is this some religious horseshit that you are droning on about?”

    Rounding up the homeless, the handicapped, and other people and murdering them because they are inconvenient wouldn’t hurt me personally either, but that wouldn’t make it right.

    Abortion is killing a human life for convenience sake. I have never felt comfortable with that. Humans are remarkably adaptive though. If indoctrinated they will go along with anything. Germans went along with the holocaust after a few years. Much of the modern world allows babies to be killed, although it took much longer for us to warm up to the idea.

    Even if Roe v. Wade was overturned abortion would likely still be legal in much of the country, the issue would just go back to the states for a vote. That’s called Democracy.

  • Dawn

    Well, Redtard, if you aren’t comfortable with it, then don’t have one and don’t perform one.

    And of course, everyone knows your analogy is full of holes and bullcrap.

  • RedTard

    Please explain how my analogy is full of holes. I doubt “everyone” understands it. I think it is quite fitting.

    Your argument is the weak one. It could be used to defend anything. For example you could substitute pedophilia for abortion and say:

    If your not comfortable with child porn then don’t look at it and don’t allow pictures of your children.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    John never responded to my final question in comment 56, which confirms to me that ‘child rapists’ is just a catch phrase but abortion overall is the real agenda here. Redtard and ogre with their comments confirm that. (Some very apropo names here)

    Since the majority of abortions performed on young girls seem to be due to young boys who were subjected to only abstinence training, yet another failed ideology of the Right, I would imagine that the majority of Illinois girls are not falling into the hands of predators.

    However, since it bugs John soooo much to stop the 1% or 2% of such cases of rape, that he’s willing to toss away the freedoms and rights to privacy of all girls, I would suggest another alternative. Just castrate every male in the state of Illinois as soon as they hit puberty. Granted about 99% of the castrations would be on innocent people, but you also get that 1% and that seems to be the most important thing here. Just applying the same principle that John applies, just doing it much more effectively.

  • JR

    RedTard: Much of the modern world allows babies to be killed, although it took much longer for us to warm up to the idea.

    Actually, I think you have that exactly backward. It took much longer for anybody to warm up to the idea that fetuses were anything remotely resembling people, let alone go out of their way to prevent women aborting them.

    (I’m assuming here that you are misusing the word “baby” to signify embryos and fetuses. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong in that assumption, but I’m quite sure that most of the world does not currently allow actual babies to be killed.)

  • gonzo marx

    i will lay this out once more for those that missed it on a thread months ago…

    the smallest unit of government, your town, issues a Citificate of when you are born…and another when you die…

    legally, what you get is the time between those two Certificates and during that time you are covered by our Constitution and the Rule of Law

    before is just the Mother, and after we just fucking don’t know…

    so where is the problem here?

    interestingly, on a side note…the FDA refused to allow over the counter sale of the “morning after” pill months BEFORE the medical and scientific testing even began…

    fix that, and MOST of any kind of “problem” with abortion goes away overnight

    but that would take away the “straw womb” for hysterical argument(note the root of “hyster” used here…i am SO punny..)

    but i digress…

    Excelsior!

  • troll

    (concerning the ‘morning after pill’ – big secret: a high dose of normal birth control pills accomplishes the same thing or so I am told by Drs ‘in the know’…check it out)

    troll

  • gonzo marx

    but troll, they taste funny when ya chew them…

    oh…wait…they’re for girls!

    d’oh!

    Excelsior!

  • Steve S

    It’s widely known that when young teenage girls want abortions but are required to report it, rather than go to a qualified professional, they have their boyfriend hit them in the gut, or they fall down a flight of stairs willingly, or do some other tactic so the fetus can just end up in the neighborhood dumpster.

  • troll

    true dat Steve…and suicide is always an option

    troll

  • RedTard

    “I’m assuming here that you are misusing the word “baby” to signify embryos and fetuses.”

    I’m using the lay term. I have yet to hear an expectant mother utter the words ‘feel here, the fetus is kicking’.

    Your side has to lie to yourselves and hide behind medical terminology so you can stomach your choice. I just look at it like it really is.

    Abortion is, and always has been, about killing unborn children because they are inconvenient. It’s not about incest, or medical complications, or women’s reproductive rights (any real infringement is known as rape) it’s about simple convenience.

    A small human sacrifice so one can continue to be the life of the party, without repercussion.

  • Dawn

    Appropriate point Steve about the dumpster.

    Surely, a small clump of cells without a beating heart, functioning organs, or a brainstem being aborted is a better option than say, dumping a fully developed infant into the trash can to die from exposure and neglect?

    I am not saying that every kind of abortion is right, but banning the procedure isn’t the answer.

    I am somewhere in between. I would rather have it legal and available, but properly regulated than having girls and women going into back alley butchshops, because like drugs, illegalizing it isn’t going to make the need go away – it just makes the situation more desperate and dangerous.

    And none of this has to do with ten year olds being raped by Planned Parenthood.

  • http://wisdomandmurder.blogspot.com Lisa McKay

    A small human sacrifice so one can continue to be the life of the party, without repercussion.

    I have had two friends over the years who terminated pregnancies for reasons that had to do with severe genetic defects. In neither case was the decision made lightly, in fact in both cases the decision was made after much anguished soul-searching by both mother and father. I would also not suggest that there were no repercussions. Your notion that all women have abortions so that they can continue to be the life of the party is absurd. Women have abortions for a large number of reasons, not all of which have anything to do with wanting to be ‘the life of the party’.

  • JR

    RedTard: Your side has to lie to yourselves and hide behind medical terminology so you can stomach your choice. I just look at it like it really is.

    No, I don’t believe you do. I think you lie to yourself by neurotically anthropomorphizing an unthinking, unfeeling collection of cells. I am therefore quite comfortable with abortion no matter what you call the fetus/baby/adorable-warm-fuzzy.

  • http://andiwastheecho.blogspot.com Trish

    So. Incredibly. Disturbing.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com/ Christopher Rose

    Actually, RedTard, I have no problem at all with calling abortion what it is: yes, it is the killing of unborn children. No argument there and I really don’t see what your point is.

    Your talk of “inconvenience” is what I find offensive. Unborn babies die all the time for many different reasons but I’ve yet to meet a woman who didn’t take the issue of whether to have a baby or to have an abortion very seriously indeed. That’s because they actually understand, apparently unlike yourself, that having a baby is a very serious business and not one to be undertaken simply because pregnancy has occurred.

    Before the procedure was available legally there was precious little a woman could do other than risking the old gin and knitting needles routine in some dingy backstreet room, often helped by a midwife or nurse or other caring figure. Quite often people would die or suffer other complications leading to hospitalisation.

    It seems frankly deranged to me to suggest that the decision about the baby’s birth must be paramount. It’s fine for adults to live their lives by that rule if they choose to do so but I really don’t see what right you, your government, or anybody else for that matter have to be interfering in the freedom of other people to live their lives as they see fit.

  • Dawn

    Inconvenient or not, RedTard, it really isn’t your individual decision to make.

    But nice job making a complicated issue so crystal clear for us on this side of the fence. So glad you have it ALL worked out. No wonder your side relies on religion so heavily, you have nothing else to rely on, like perhaps intellect and facts.

  • RedTard

    “Inconvenient or not, RedTard, it really isn’t your individual decision to make.” – Dawn

    With the upcoming shuffling on the supreme court it just might be. I’ve got my voter registration card at the ready.

    I suppose that your sarcasm and thinly veiled personal attack was a sign of having the ‘intellect’ and the ‘facts’ on your side.

  • http://kendersmusings.blogspot.com kender

    If a twelve year old girl is asking for an abortion and someone is NOT calling the cops something, somewhere, is broken.

    It is as simple as that.

  • Bill B

    This has been an entertaining thread but one issue from the story linked by JB (had the mother of the daughter…) points toward a facet of the story conspicuously left out, maybe?

    “When the parents were notified their pregnant daughter was not at school, they suspected she had been taken to the Hope Abortion Clinic in Granite City.”

    They did, did they. Could it be that the girl wanted an abortion and the parents didn’t want her to get one?

    Did they know who the father was?

    If so, why didn’t they pursue rape charges?

    I don’t know much about the case except what I’ve read here so I’m just askin.

  • zingzing

    why do conservatives, christians, far right zealots, republicans, whatever… want to make everyone conform to their morals? morals are not absolute.

    aww, shit, i suppose i’d like to see torture and execution banned, and i suppose i just see that as common sense.

    but an outright ban on abortion!? there ARE cases where a woman’s health or the circumstances demand one.

    ever heard of a liberal bombing a prison because they perform executions there? (it just doesn’t make much sense to begin with… kind of lets you know how far off these people are…)

    your ideas about abortion are just that: your own. don’t tell others how to live their lives.

    i suppose the main difference between abortion, capital punishment and state-sponsered torture is that the state has no right to kill or torture. they just don’t. abortion is a choice that a woman makes about her own body, something the state has no right to legislate.

    how would you like it if the state reached down and shook a chastising finger at your (or your wife’s) vagina? it’s her goddamn vagina!

    how would you like it if the state reached down and opened up your veins?

    how would you like it if the state reached down and electrocuted your nethers, just to start a conversation?

    it’s just perverse.

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    Morals aren’t absolutes? How many people here would be ok with my shooting them in the face?

    There, murder is bad. Moral absolute.

  • zingzing

    nice one. not all morals are absolutes then.

    murder is bad, and you can call abortion “murder” if you want. i say it’s not. execution is murder. war is murder. but abortion as murder is a bit more up in the air.

    i think taking drugs and smoking is okay. drinking to excess is alright. all you teetollers (did i spell that right?) out there can’t tell me not to do what i want to do to my own body. so, don’t tell women what to do with their’s.

    there isn’t much out there in this world that is 100% black or white, like lots of conservatives like to see things. their opinions are valid. our opinions are valid. abortion is an individual choice and one should respect the individual.

  • gonzo marx

    oh John…then howabout murder in war or torture?

    if muder is an absolute, and we define murder as killing humans…how moral is the war in Iraq…especially in light of civilians caught in collateral damage?

    next example…sex…some say that any outside of marriage is “immoral” and that such proclamation is an absolute

    you still want to stand by your assertation?

    you see, i consider “morals” to fall into the authoritarian/religious line…

    and Ethics to fall under man made via Reason

    nuff said?

    Excelsior!

  • RogerMDillon

    “How many people here would be ok with my shooting them in the face?”

    I’d be okay with you shooting yourself in the face.

  • zingzing

    ahh… “ethics.” much better word. i think everyone can agree that ethics are not absolute. and that gonzo is now a genius.

  • gonzo marx

    just now zing?

    geeez…well, at least i made it today…

    {8^P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    just messing with ya…thanks

    Excelsior!

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    gonzo is my hero…

  • Dawn

    I thought of that exact example this morning Gonzo. If a police office shoots you in the line of duty, the results the same, but it’s not considered murder, so killing isn’t an absolute right or wrong, and neither is abortion.

    It may violate your individual moral code, but something that resides within your body is under your control until it takes that first breath on it’s own. That doesn’t mean you as a pregnant woman do not a have moral obligation to the unborn, but the question is when does that obligation begin.

    I would not advocate a late term abortion unless it was under the most extreme and gravest of circumstances, but the medical community at this stage has a pretty firm grasp on when life is viable, and up until that point it should be the woman’s choice what her moral obligation is.

    This is the most grayest of issues, and I can’t believe our elected officials are going to just lay down as our judicial body slowly but surely takes a slide from the middle to the far right.

    It may not be this year or next year, or even the year after, but we are getting further and further away from our constitutional rights as American citizens.

  • zingzing

    i have a point to make:

    men have no business meddling in abortion as legislation. at that level, it is a woman’s issue. on the individual level, i think a woman should, if circumstances allow, discuss all the options with her man.

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    Murder and killing are not exchangable words. For instance, killing in self-defense is not murder. Murder is a very specific subset of taking someone’s life. Warfare is also not murder. Killing, yes.

    Wars should be avoided, but the only absolute way to avoid war is preemptive surrender. I’m not a fan of torture either. Though I would say some of the stuff they are doing to detainees is not torture.

    As far as separating out morals and ethics, that largely gets us in muddy waters because then we’d be very quickly arguing definitions. I would argue that there is moral truth, to a large degree we can know it, and that it isn’t arbitrary.

    You mention sex outside marriage. Well, if people (1) had sex only in marriage and (2) were faithful to their spouses there would be no such things as (1) STDs and (2) children born out of wedlock. Food for thought.

    And I can tell anyone anything I want, that’s what free speech is. You are free to ignore it, zingzing.

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    Zingzing-

    Why exactly don’t men have any business talking about abortion again? It takes two people to consent to sex and thus produce a pregnancy. Once the child is born, if nothing else, the man owes the woman money. Why is it there is a 9 month black hole where the man is irrelevant where before they both made decisions together and after those 9 months the decision greatly affects both parties?

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    Why is it there is a 9 month black hole where the man is irrelevant where before they both made decisions together and after those 9 months the decision greatly affects both parties?

    Because the man’s anatomy, physiology, metabolism, chemistry, psychology, diet, and lifestyle are not being uncontrollably thrown into extremes, chaos, and possibly harm’s way because of the thing growing inside him throughout those nine months.

  • http://elvirablack.blogspot.com/ Elvira Black

    In addition to the usual crimes against humanity, yesterday I saw at least two cases on the local news of horrendous torture, sexual abuse, and murder of innocent children at the hands of their own families. Is this the kind of blood the anti-abortionists want on their hands?

    To say that PP is trying to “profit” from the “abortion business” is absurd. In actuality, by making information and contraception more readily available, they are preventing countless abortions each year.

    But this is something the wacked out far right does not want to hear, because everyone knows that sex outside of marriage is just, like, wrong and sinful, and you must be punished by enduring a pregnancy and unwanted child, right?

    (Never mind all the holier than thou preachers who get caught with their pants down and all the priests who molest young children, hiding under their collar. But hey, no abortions, right?)

    BTW–the prescription that everyone is so up in arms about that women can take shortly after unprotected sex does not abort anything. It takes several days at least for an egg to become implanted. This pill merely makes the womb unviable for implantation. No more an abortion than using a condom would be, but then, those on the far right don’t believe anyone should have protected sex at all, apparently. I think underneath it all, this is what it all boils down to–trying to force the whole nation to “just say no.”

    I’d love to see all these blowhards who talk about the “sanctity of life” open their door one day and see that someone has dumped all the unwanted chiildren in the neighborhood on their doorstep. If you’re so concerned about this, why not concern yourself with the fate of children who are beaten, tortured, and yes, even raped by their so-called guardians? Plus which, I take it that as far as the sanctity of life goes, all bets are off when it comes to bombing abortion clinics and threatening those who work there with bodily harm and worse.

    It’s a shameful thing when a writer makes it seem like an organization that is actually trying to PREVENT needless abortion is attacked for supposedly trying to make some sort of unholy profit. Please. OK. Let’s just breed ourselves into oblivion and then put the kids on a mountaintop to die of exposure, like in the good ‘ol days, ok?

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    Another nice straw man, because one set of parents abuse their kids, we must let that exception drive the rule. We have mechanisms in place to deal with those people, let’s have those mechanisms work.

    But again, it’s all about personal attacks. “You” can be against abortion you “holier than thou”. Hey, us “holier than thou” people were the ones the led the charge against segregation, thankyouverymuch.

    And if you want to talk about priests, let’s talk about public schools. 1 in 6000 Catholic kids were victims. Around 15% of public school kids have had outright intercourse with their teachers. 90% of planned parenthood clinics cover up child abuse despite clear laws requiring them to report. But let’s pick on the Catholic Church because it really isn’t about child abuse… is it?

  • gonzo marx

    John B sez…
    *Hey, us “holier than thou” people were the ones the led the charge against segregation, thankyouverymuch.*

    excuse me?..i had not realized you were a New York jewish student who was in a station wagon getting your brains blown out in the early 60’s

    but i digress

    Excelsior!

  • Shark

    re: Bambineck, comment 93

    Johnny, Johnny… um… this is REALLY hard to watch; suffice it to say that you’re in WAY over yer head “debating” the Great Gonzo on this.

    In the Intellectual Department, you ain’t worthy of *anointing his feet.

    {shark averts eyes while verbal execution takes place}

    *yall like that one?

  • Shark

    Bambineck: “…Around 15% of public school kids have had outright intercourse with their teachers. 90% of planned parenthood clinics cover up child abuse…”

    PLEASE ADD:

    “…and 99.9% of my data are FUCKED UP.”

    Thanks,
    The Management

  • Shark

    [Shark waits for Bambi to verify “…15% of public school kids have had intercourse with their teachers…” — while seriously considering returning to get that high school diploma he missed out on…]

  • http://elvirablack.blogspot.com/ Elvira Black

    Re: my comment above (#96):

    Something “came over me” after I posted this comment and I felt compelled to write my own post on the subject, incorporating and expanding on said comment 96.

    For more fun and games, see Pro-life or anti-sex?

    Thank you.

  • gonzo marx

    Shark…your Praise both Honors and humbles me…

    as for my conversations with John B.

    /sigh

    allow me a Moment to try and explain…

    my Observations have lead me to think that he is a person of “good” Heart, he appears to be coming from a staunch “social conservative” place..where he erroneously views America to have deen like “Father Knows Best” of “Leave it to Beaver” at one time, and longs for a return of such perfection

    alas, a more apt Metaphor would be “All in the Family” which depicted Archie Bunkers mental and spiritual Journey of Discovery…from the same “place” as mentioned above to a more accurate View of Reality after having his “nose” rubbed in the dirty Facts of the World…slowly over the course of Time, Norman Lear’s genius took us on that Journey with Archie…a wonderful Parable telling the Tale of a Nations growth in Understanding and Acceptance

    you get the Idea…

    my Hope is that something said in discussion will trigger a desire to look beyond the blinders of his narrow Viewpoint

    silly of me, i know…but i can’t help trying

    Excelsior!

  • Adam

    It’s apparent that John does not have ovaries and has never gone through a menstrual cycle. Maybe if he had, he’d know that there’s more to Depo than just screwing anything that walks. Christ, even my wife didn’t start birth control just to have sex.

    Rape cases, at least in the military, are hell to go through for both the victim and the perpetrator. In many cases, the extremity of the ordeal causes victims to not report the case… their lives have already been turned upside-down, and they don’t want them to go even further to hell. It’s a victim’s right to decide whether or not they report it, correct? Can you or can you not choose to ride out a cold instead of visiting a doctor?

    Now obviously rape is not so trivial. But forcing unwanted children into the world is selfish, irresponsible, and stupid.

  • yehitsme2

    ok so 13 year olds have the common sense to agree to have sex with 17 year olds?!?! and this is OK???
    13 year olds are way to young to have sex with a guy that is older and proably has like 2000 more STD’s than she does!!!

  • WHAMMO

    I have one simple question for you. Your site “exposes” statistics on the number of unreported cases of child rape/abuse. If these cases were “unreported” then how in the hell could you have any statistics? UNREPORTED seems to denote that it was never recorded, so the only other way they could gain these “numbers” would be through unconfirmed sources and non-governmental sources, i.e. Private sources. Somehow that just doesnt seem very reliable

  • http://griffin.collegeandbeyond.org Griffin Boyce

    Many women are also afraid that a medical professional will disclose when they’ve been raped because there is a huge shame aspect about it. I was raped and I would be horrified and disgusted if it were just reported to the police. Rape (ie forced se xual acts) is a crime, but it is also an extremely private matter. If women think that someone’s going to call the police if they seek an abortion, then they will take care of the matter themselves and give themselves an abortion. Forcing yourself to miscarry is an incredibly dangerous act, which is why it’s done in a controlled setting now. You could get an infection, bleed to death, cause irreversible damage to other organs, and prevent yourself from being able to have children. Home abortions are done with chemicals, stabby objects and brute force — Medical abortions are done with suction in a sterile setting, and by a trained doctor.

    Is it okay for a 13-year-old to have s ex? Not really. But most girls lose their virginity at 13-15, and virtually always with an older teen. Yes, there are 30-40 year-old men who rape and impregnate young girls, but these are much fewer and far between than teens having s ex.

    If someone comes in to ANY clinic and says “Someone raped me and I got pregnant, but please don’t tell anyone” — virtually every time the clinic will hide it. There are great reasons for doing this: they were raped weeks or months ago, so no trace evidence remains. If they go to the police, they will have to have a rape kit performed on her which is traumatic and takes hours to perform. So at this point it’s her word against his, with probably no evidence to back it up. If they can get his DNA from the fetus, it still only proves that they had s ex as any wounds or bruising would have healed by the time of the abortion. So it serves no purpose other than shaming the victim and making other women in need think twice about getting a doctor’s help for an already sensitive medical situation.

  • http://jcb.pentex-net.com John Bambenek

    If the Catholic Church did this, there wouldn’t be one Church in this country that wouldn’t be razed to the ground for it.

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