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Nirvana – Nevermind

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When punk arrived in the mid-70s, it seemed to mark an unequivocal line in the sand. Here, punk said, is where everything changes … you can either go with us into the future, or you can listen to oldies the rest of your lives. Countless baby boomers did the latter, meanwhile buying lots of Tom Petty albums to prove they were still cool. The rest of us thought we were moving to the future; it took a few years to understand that punk wasn’t the beginning of a new world but only the end of the old one. Only the bastardized form of punk, “new wave,” made an impact on the charts … bands like Talking Heads were revered, and artists like Elvis Costello began careers that refuse to go away, 25 years later.

That line in the sand was eventually drawn: it was rap music, and the hip-hop that subsequently emerged, which truly changed pop music into before-and-after, where “before” was rock and roll. Punk was influential, but it wasn’t generally crucial in the marketplace, with the possible exception of later Clash. To be sure, some of the greatest rock and roll music of all time was 70s-based punk rock, but it’s hard to argue that X-Ray Spex had as much cultural impact as Run-D.M.C..

Punk evolved into “alternative rock.” Some great bands made some great records (I’ve always been partial to Husker Du, who managed to squeak into the Rolling Stone Top 500 at #495). “Alternative” might have been a problematic descriptor … “indie” wasn’t a lot better … but as long as bands like the Huskers were avoiding the top of the charts like they had the plague, “alternative” was accurate enough.

And then came Nevermind. Nirvana’s classic album rose to the top of the charts; in a great example of accidental symbolism, they pushed Michael Jackson from #1 in the process. There are as many explanations for the rise of Nevermind as there are people who bought the album (close to 8 million, I believe): the way charts were calculated changed to the advantage of indie rockers, the “better” sound provided by Nirvana’s new “major” label made their music more accessible, “Smells Like Teen Spirit” was a great video, or the simplest explanation of all: Nevermind was one of the greatest albums ever made.

Whatever the explanation, with Nevermind punk finally became not just an artistic/cultural influence, but a serious force in the marketplace. This pissed off a lot of people, apparently including Kurt Cobain … the snobbish insistence on the primacy of “indie” art over the mainstream has often been crushing to the work of the actual artists in question (of course, forcing mainstream values onto independent artists is at least as crushing, but indie conspiracy theorists tend to find the mainstream imposing on artists far more often than actually happens … Nevermind is a better album than Bleach, just as Husker Du’s major-label debut, Candy Apple Grey, was indistinguishable from Flip Your Wig except the indie release had crappier sound). In the case of Nirvana, this resulted in a followup album, In Utero, that was a horrified version of Nevermind, peppered with songs titles like “Dumb” and “Rape Me” and “All Apologies.”

With the death of Kurt Cobain, Nevermind and pretty much the entire career of Nirvana becomes more metaphor than art. Which is unfortunate, for Nevermind remains one of the great albums, In Utero ain’t far off, and the posthumous live releases Unplugged and From the Muddy Banks of the Wishkah offer numerous pleasures. Because they broke on the charts, because they then “represented” alt/indie rock, because Kurt killed himself … for all those reasons and more, people think of Nirvana as symbol. It would be a shame if the music became secondary.

Acclaimed Music, which collates critical opinion from a large variety of sources, lists Nevermind as the most-acclaimed album of the 1990s. No subsequent album has been as honored. In fact, Nevermind is #4 on the all-time Acclaimed Music list, behind the Beach Boys and two Beatle albums. That seems fair enough to me: it’s a brilliant album, full of great songs and excellent playing, that is also a cultural milestone. The RS 500 list has Nevermind at #17, the first album from the 90s (and the only one for quite awhile), with In Utero at #439 and Unplugged a bit high at #311. I might personally opt for Sleater-Kinney (who don’t show up at all on the RS500), but it’s hard to argue with Nirvana and Nevermind as the best alternative rock has offered in the past couple of decades.

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About Steven Rubio

  • mike

    I always like watching those 80s metal documentaries on VH1 and such. They always end the same way, with some hair metal knucklehead saying, “That Kurt Cobain ruined by life. After he came along, my record sales plunged.”

    Which is one time good triumphed over evil.

  • http://www.foliage.com/~marks Mark Saleski

    depends on your perspective.

    at least the dumb metalheads knew how to have fun.

  • mike

    Grunge lead directly to 9/11 by weakening the country’s resolve to party. Is it a coincidence that both Osama bin laden and Kurt Cobain hated Motley Crue? I think not.

  • http://www.resonation.ca Jim Carruthers

    WTF? Big time.

    I saw Nirvana in their “Bleach” era, and said if they weren’t one of those Seattle Black Sabbath wannabes, I would stay for more than three songs. They weren’t, and I left.

    Ozzy has more cred than Nirvana. Hell, that fuck up from Shirley Temple’s Pussy who fucked my ex-girlfriend has more cred.

    Hell, I have more cred, and I’m a loser.

  • http://www.foliage.com/~marks Mark Saleski

    you kiss your mother with that mouth?

  • duane

    You guys and your damnable “cred.” Motley Crue did suck, but so did Nirvana. That Nirvana’s rise in the business might have corresponded to a change in the business doesn’t equate to talent or good music. Wal-mart is really popular, too. Does that make it one of the greatest stores ever made? Dumb metalheads were all about chicks and partying and hairspray and 3-chord progressions. Dumb grungers were all about bitching and moaning and skipping showers and 3-chord progressions. Do we really have to pick one of these as being better than the other? It’s like choosing between whacking your thumb with a hammer or having the hammer dropped on your foot.

  • mike

    “Dumb grungers were all about bitching and moaning and skipping showers and 3-chord progressions.”

    You say it like it’s a negative thing.

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Well, yes it IS a negative thing- at least for anyone into MUSIC.

    In fairness, Cobain was a decent songwriter, at least on a good day. There are actually some tunes under his best songs.

    The problem was that none of these guys could play an instrument worth crap. Raw enthusiasm combined with a decent underlying song put it over with some credibility. They were sure as hell a lot better than Motley Crue.

  • Josh

    Nirvana sucked, okay people? Get it through your heads. Duane, you’re absolutely right – popularity doesn’t constitute talent.

    And Al, you’re also right about none of the band members being able to play an instrument worth a crap. But to say they’re better than Motley Crue??!! I think not. Motley Crue’s “tear the house down” heavy metal is much more exciting than Nirvana’s “I’m a talentless crybaby” alternative crap.

    Here’s the funny thing: Say this to any Nirvana fan and they’ll look at you like you’re a criminal. I think they took it WAY too seriously (rap fans are the same way, but they’re even worse).

  • http://www.foliage.com/~marks Mark Saleski

    ya know, i really didn’t care all that much for Nirvanna. i mean, Smells Like Teen Spirit was fun for all of the obvious reasons that loud rock songs are fun.

    i just didn’t get the coronation of Cobain (well, still don’t really…)

    but then i read this article about him that contained a bunch of interviews. we talking about the song “Scentless Apprentice” from In Utero…and i thought, wow, that is a friggin’ weird thing to write about.

    so, i bought that record and loved it for all its ragged and nasty glory…also have Nevermind.

    and by the way, there’s nothin’ wrong with a 3-chord tune….the Ramones proved that.

  • http://www.foliage.com/~marks Mark Saleski

    oh….i’ve gotta disagree with the musical ability thing. at least where Dave G. is concerned. he can play the drums.

  • Red

    Actually, the Ramones proved that there was EVERYTHING wrong with the 3-chord progression. Face it. They suck.

    Speaking of which, the whole Ramones/Nirvana took away all that was good and holy about music. They took the lead guitarist out of the band. Take Van Halen. They are total rockers like anyone, but Eddie is a phenomenal soloer and good all-around guitarist. People were just like, “hey i want to get rich and famous in rock and roll but i dont want to have to learn to play an instrument. i can just be really depressed and scream about how depressed i am and use my awesome power chords to show off my musical skill” and that attitude just doesn’t cut it. Bring back the guitar player!

  • http://www.foliage.com/~marks Mark Saleski

    Actually, the Ramones proved that there was EVERYTHING wrong with the 3-chord progression. Face it. They suck.

    well gee…not much to say about that.

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Fancy guitar playing is a FINE thing- but it don’t mean a thing if there isn’t a song under it. There are a bazillion wankers who can jackoff with a guitar in triple time- but I can’t remember one of their damned songs.

    It would be real groovy to see some better musicians covering Cobain’s songs. Nevermind was a fine album, even if it is somewhat overrated, but a real band could knock you out with strong arrangements and performances of some of those songs.

    I grant that the whole Nirvana/grunge misery and nihilism thing runs pretty thin as a range of sentiment on which to let one’s mind run. However, Cobain made FAR more interesting and long lasting expression of his pain than any Motley retard.

  • Red

    Uh, Al, I was talking about VH not Motley. Anyway, VH did have some decent songs. And Eddie could rip. And there are NOT a bazillion wankers who could rip off a triple time Eddie Solo. There’s a few, I guess, maybe even more than a few. But face it: COBAIN IS NOT ONE OF THEM. JUST BECAUSE HE’S DEAD AND SANG ABOUT BEING DEPRESSED IS NOT A SIGN OF A GREAT SONGWRITER. Really, I’m not joking. I mean, he could sing and was passionate and whatever, but I’d rather he sang about something other than “we will all die someday, we cant stop it oh no holy crap life sucks so bad and i cant overcome it at all what can i do”…Woah, that sounds like a Nirvana song…

  • http://www.glassharp.net bob

    I vividly recall being in high school when “Nevermind” hit. It seemed as if overnight, that album rid the airwaves of such luminaries as Poison, Paula Abdul, MC Hammer….

    I just can’t get behind the notion that things weren’t better because of them. They took all that was going on outside of the mainstream and brought it right to the suburban kids and their wallets.

    Then again, I guess you could make the argument that they were thieves (see also: Elvis)?

  • duane

    Bob says, “It seemed as if overnight, that album rid the airwaves of such luminaries as Poison, Paula Abdul, MC Hammer….” Yes, and for that feat alone we owe much to the Grungesters. At least we didn’t have to suffer more fancy footwork in lieu of MUSICAL ability. And, the truth is, I liked Pearl Jam a whole lot. And Soundgarden. And Alice in Chains. Ah, yes, but then I heard (and saw) Tool. OMG (as they say over on the POTC Depp lovefest post), then I could have depressing shit mixed with some musical experimentation, and a dose of virtuosity (hard to beat that bass/drum team) that also kicks buttox. Lamentably, perhaps, no guitar solos. But still….

    And Dave Grohl is a pretty talented guy, no doubt.

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Red- Van Halen was in fact the SHIZNIT. Please do not mistakenly think I meant otherwise. Their David Lee Roth era material was rock rulin’. They had some goddam SONGS to go with all the fancy guitars. They stand head and shoulders above the whole grunge movement, and pretty much everybody else mentioned in this thread combined.

    There seem to be at least three different main ranges of issues here, all separate considerations.

    1) Songwriting Van Halen were superior here, as Nirvana was to a somewhat lesser extent. The Ramones were superior here as well, on a good day.

    2) Musicianship Van Halen (the whole group) just have this far above any of these others. Nirvana were barely adequate. The Ramones were perhaps a little underrated, though obviously not in a league with Van Halen.

    3) MESSAGE This is probably the biggest point of contention here. It’s not that Cobain didn’t write well, it’s that some of you (including me, mostly) don’t like what he had to say.

    Cobain expressed himself with some fair eloquence (particularly on the under appreciated Unplugged album), but yuck. It’s music to go kill yourself to.

    Whereas Motley Crue were just non-playing, non-writing, non-thinking idiots whose music would make me WANT to off myself if I had to listen to it at length.

  • Josh

    “It seemed as if overnight, that album rid the airwaves of such luminaries as Poison, Paula Abdul, MC Hammer…”

    Um, we didn’t need Nirvana to rid the airwaves of boring music. We could always just…um…NOT LISTEN TO THE RADIO. How ’bout that?

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    True- Hammer, Poison, et al never really bothered me. I was up to my ass in Elvis Costello and Ray Charles records anyway, so I didn’t hear much of that stuff.

  • Eric Olsen

    Steven, back to your original point: you’re right and somehow otherwise sentient human beings have gone – I hope – temporarily insane here.

    There aren’t just okay songs on nevermind, there are GREAT songs on Nevermind, and it isn’t just about moping and telescoping death – it’s about confusion: internal, external, between people, and it’s amazingly articulate in conveying something inevitably INarticulate.

    They were sloppy, they were confused, they were about the juxtaposition of power and beauty, noise and delicacy.

    I am astonished to hear this kind of backlash, and I hope it’s just that. Who didn’t get burned out on the songs from Nevermind? but that’s not their fault.

    And if you don’t get the Ramones, you don’t get rock ‘n’ roll.

    I am appalled.

  • http://www.filteringcraig.com Craig Lyndall

    Within all the punk stances and metal sounds that were first heard on Nevermind, ultimately it is the melody that strikes you. Come As You Are, In Bloom, Drain You, Teen Spirit and the hauntingly beautiful Something in the Way.

    Not just anyone can go up there with as little instrument talent as Nirvana admittedly had and win over a million people. Popularity doesn’t breed quality, but in this case given the sloppy style of the music, it’s mass appeal says something about the quality of the melodies driving the songs.

    The other thing is that you can complain all you want about Van Halen and bands like that who were left by the wayside, but I just couldn’t ever get into the emotionless party music. Yeah, Cobain was sad and mopey. Sometimes he was angry. I need that kind of edge in my music.

  • http://www.glassharp.net Robert Brandt

    What many people fail to remember is that a lot of the metal avenues at the time (Headbanger’s Ball, and Metal Shop on the radio) EMBRACED the Seattle bands. Their reaction was almost like, “Thank you Jesus for these new bands…we don’t have to fill air time with another in-depth interview with Chip Z’Nuff.”

    I guess to clarify my radio comment from a few posts back…I mean, I was like 13-14 at the time. Where the hell else are you going to find what’s new except from radio at that age? Yeah, you occasionally had the “someone’s cool older brother” factor, and they would turn you on to some album that you’ve never heard of, but that was it. I didn’t exactly grow up in the city either, so it’s not like I could ride my bike down to the cool record store.

    So to that end, I was painfully average, and (like many of you, I’m sure) spent my formative years racing home to catch MTV, and annoyed your parents by cranking up your favorite rock station while doing homework.

  • Josh

    Eric:
    Okay, big time disagreement here. “If you don’t get the Ramones, you don’t get rock ‘n roll”? A more accurate statement would be “If you don’t get the Ramones, you don’t get punk rock”. Sorry, but the Ramones don’t represent all rock ‘n roll music.

    Craig:
    I think winning over millions of people isn’t really as hard as people think it is. As long as you do what people like, then you’ll be popular. And rock bands didn’t “fall by the wayside” when Nirvana came along, they were just less popular, that’s all. People were brainwashed into thinking “Hey, a new kind of music has arrived, so why should we listen to classic rock?”. To me, that’s a very narrow-minded view. It’s bullshit to turn your back on something just because it’s old and love new stuff just because you feel like you must “change with the times”.
    And you’ll find PLENTY of classic rock that isn’t “emotionless party music” if you look hard enough.

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Oh Craig,”emotionless party music” to describe VAN HALEN? That’s so wrong. There’s more to the broad world of emotion and soul than just various shades of suicidal angst.

  • http://www.resonation.ca Jim Carruthers

    Well, isn’t this just all special? It is a plain fact that the Ramones were the greatest rock and roll band of all time. No debate, just a fact, live with it. That Soundgarden were much more successful in terms of sales and yet less noteable as a tower of Seattle Grunge seems to sum up that particular foo-far-rah.

    What’s really important is that Cobain was instumental in launching and sustaining the career of Courtney Love. Now that is something to get yer knickers twisted around.

  • http://www.filteringcraig.com Craig Lyndall

    I understand, but I have a different purpose for music than you do obviously. I expect music to move me. Hot for Teacher, Girls Girls Girls, and Unskinny Bop just don’t do it.

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Craig, you’re lumping the classic “Hot for Teacher” with the lamest Crue crap. Perhaps you’ll want to dismiss “ABC” and “The Love You Save” because you don’t like the Osmond’s “One Bad Apple.”

  • duane

    I would like to dismiss “The Love You Save” and “ABC.” But…oh…my…God…Al has inadvertantly released the horror of those two songs from deep in the dusty memory banks of my brain. My guard synapses were caught sleeping, and those horrible high-pitched squeals are coursing through my brain. Aaagghhh. Must…find…van Halen…help…urrggghh…

  • http://www.filteringcraig.com Craig Lyndall

    Sorry, Al. I guess there is no accounting for taste and parallels don’t work to describe the way we feel about music. I group those 3 cock-rock songs for sure. ABC and the Love You Save for whatever reason, I like.

    I guess I am inconsistent.

  • Eric Olsen

    I dont have to dismiss the Jackson 5, Van Halen (DLR version) or even good, chunky-riffing Motley Crue in order to say Nirvana said more about real life – and especially young life, which has always been the foundation of rock ‘n’ roll – than any of them. Party music is great – certainly the Ramones generally fit in there – but life isn’t ONLY about the party, and while most of Nirvana’s lyrics were more down than up, their MUSIC often acted as a counterbalance to this, giving their best songs multiple layers and complexity.

    One of the great things about Nirvana and a key to their commercial success is that they united new wavers, hard rockers and punkers: absolutely not an easy thing to do. You can say you don’t like them – or anyone else – but you can’t say they weren’t tremendously important, or even that they are overrated.

  • http://www.foliage.com/~marks Mark Saleski

    yep, what moves a person is a mysterious thing.

    i’ve gotta sit on the pro-Ramones side of the fence.

    they are rock & roll.

    Gabba, Gabba, Hey!!

  • Eric Olsen

    By saying if you don’t get the Ramones you don’t get rock ‘n’ roll, I don’t mean to imply there aren’t other forms of rock ‘n’ roll – of course there are.

    But if you don’t get the rush of adrenaline, the embrace of the most raging power and the sweetest pop that the Ramones came to embody, and ultimately the affirmation of humanity that courses through every great Ramones song and many just good ones, then you don’t get what rock ‘n’ roll is supposed to be about. That’s what I meant.

    Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly, Little Richard, The Beatles, Rolling Stones, The Who, Creedence, Ramones – that’s rock ‘n’ roll.

  • http://www.resonation.ca Jim Carruthers

    Y’know if your car gets stolen, you’re never getting that Creedence tape back. Will anybody say that about a Nirvana tape? Highly unlikely.

    Though if you are only listening to Nirvana in your car, you proabably deserve to have it stolen.

  • Eric Olsen

    And recall that the aliens, upon receiving our time capsule, replied “send more Chuck Berry.”

  • http://www.resonation.ca Jim Carruthers

    I haven’t read Cobain’s diaries, but I have read Chuck Berry’s autobiography. And the surprizing thing is that you wouldn’t know he performed music or played guitar.

    Funny, but not in a ha-ha way.

  • mike

    “One of the great things about Nirvana and a key to their commercial success is that they united new wavers, hard rockers and punkers: absolutely not an easy thing to do.”

    Yes, they’re the band all the dirtbags at the gym can agree on. And as a dirtbag from way back, I mean that as a compliment.

    People forget that Axl Rose loved Nevermind and invited Nirvana to play at his 30th birthday party–until Kurt called him a homophobic scumbag and told him to f off, thus sending Rose’s career into a tailspin.

  • Eric Olsen

    Good point, mike, objectifying my subjective statement.

  • josh

    Eric, there are other bands who give me MUCH more of an adrenaline rush than The Ramones. When I listen to The Ramones, or any punk/alternative band, I’m bored to death and just wanna fall asleep. But that’s just me.

    And anyone who says that “Blitzkrieg Bop” or “Smells Like Teen Spirit” are brilliant rock songs, well, they deserve to be slapped.

  • duane

    Uh oh. The level of discourse is sinking to that found over at the top guitarists blog. Slapping will not be necessary. Josh, my good man, Eric has put forth an arguable case for Nirvana. To refute that, you might want to try something comparably analytical and objective. It just won’t do at this point to offer nothing beyond subjectivity, which you freely admit to having done in your post #39.

  • http://begonias.typepad.com Steven Rubio

    Thanks to Eric for keeping up the good fight, but I guess at this point I might pop in and remind Duane and others that there was an actual blog post at the beginning of this long thread, where hopefully I, too, made an arguable case for Nirvana.

  • duane

    Sorry, Steven. Yes, I wish to make amends. I do tend to lose sight of the original post as the number of respondents increases. Sort of the way a conversation will branch off on tangents and end up in a place where you have to stop and ask, “Now, what were we talking about?”

    Josh, let me redirect you to Mr. Rubio’s original post. I trust that you are preparing a worthy refutation.

  • http://begonias.typepad.com Steven Rubio

    Well, I thought Josh already offered his witty refutation, in his first post in this thread: “Nirvana sucked, okay people? Get it through your heads.”

  • mike

    “And anyone who says that “Blitzkrieg Bop” or “Smells Like Teen Spirit” are brilliant rock songs, well, they deserve to be slapped.”

    Slap me.

  • joe

    Here I am… ROCK YOU LIKE A HURRICANE!

  • http://www.resonation.ca Jim Carruthers

    Wasn’t “Slap Me” Nirvana’s second single?

    And what to make with “Beat On The Brat”? Oh, I know — slap me.

  • Josh

    God people, that slapping thing was just a joke, alright?! No need to chew my head off over it. Duane, I realize that Eric has put forth a very good argument for Nirvana, and I mean no disrespect to him or any of you guys. It was just my way of saying that I hate Nirvana and punk music. If you guys get THAT offended because of a little joke, well, that’s a shame.

  • http://begonias.typepad.com Steven Rubio

    Yes, Eric, a very good argument.

    Signed,
    Mr. Invisible

  • Eric Olsen

    Thanks

  • duane

    It’s cool Josh. We just like giving people shit, ya know? Don’t get so offended. Jeez.

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Boys, boys, what does any of this have to do with Janet Jackson’s titty?

  • duane

    I was wondering what the hell it had to do with Johnny Depp. He’s so… well, you know….

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Does anyone know what Janet’s tit thinks about Nirvana? Does the nipple shield have any opinion about Motley Crue?

  • Josh

    Well, you guys keep talking about Janet’s tits and you’re giving me a throbbing hard-on!

    Good day!

  • Joe Dirt

    What a bunch of tools, how can you say Nirvana were better than the Crue, Halen and even Poison. Nirvana were boring lame shit, with one song played over an over with different lyrics. It was pure posers music, people listened to grunge to be cool & weird and then go kill themselves. People listened to Motley Crue to have a good time, get drunked, get laid and rock.

    What sounds more fun?

  • Josh

    Right on, Joe Dirt! I couldn’t have said it better myself.

  • Anthony G

    Nirvana and the rest of the metal
    guys are nothin compared to eminem
    and the rest of the rappers. I should
    send all yall an Eminem cd out of pitty.

  • http://www.tekwh0re.net Ms. Tek

    *rolls eyes at this whole conversation*

    You’ve all really oversimplified everything.

    I used to be a DJ. I have a pretty broad background in music. I know what I like and why I like it.

    If you don’t like Nirvana, then I would suspect that you would never have liked punk. Nirvana is not punk but has a hell of a lot more connection to it. The Ramones are good, but in a light hearted way. There is room for both in this world and to enjoy both.

    I think maybe I should write a review or two… the thing is all the stuff I like… the bands seem to have all broken up. Shame.

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Yes, Ms. Tek. Please give us your perspective. Perhaps you could start with Nirvana, and work your way backwards to something on the Ramones.

  • Josh

    “I should send yall an Eminem CD out of pity”.

    Actually guys, Anthony has a point here. Eminem CD’s ARE good for one thing: They’re great to take a piss on!

  • Josh

    “I should send yall an Eminem CD out of pity”.

    Actually guys, Anthony has a point here. There IS a good thing about Eminem CD’s: YOU CAN PISS ON THEM.

  • Josh

    Whoops! I made a little mistake in posting. Sorry ’bout that.

  • marcus

    hey look an EMiNeM CD…

    PISSSSSSSSSSSSS

  • Jose

    Anthonys right Nirvana does suck, maybe
    he should rap instead of just yellling.

  • Anthony g

    Whats up Jose

  • Obie

    Josh am I seeing double, look at posting
    60 and 61. See what punk does to peoples
    minds.

  • marcus

    Josh, iam on your side but stop waisting
    space.

  • shaun

    it you guys and going to fight like little girls stick one post instead of infecting all these sites. And nirvana was an amazing and innovative band, and what happened to curt cobain is a tradgedy

  • Jose

    Shaun i am glad you took my advice,
    and came here instead of messing
    wit Hip Hop.

  • shaun

    JOSE, i don’t think you understand, I love REAL hip-hop more than almost anyone that is posting, what i hate is this commercial bullshit you hear on the radio

  • Josh

    Hey Obie, I already said that I made a mistake and posted those two comments on accident (see comment #62). And I don’t listen to punk, that proves how much you know about me.

    And Jose, why are you and Anthony on this site if you hate rock music? ANSWER THE QUESTION (does that sound familiar?).

  • Jose

    we can be here if we want.Its a free country. Does that sound familliar.

  • Dwaine AKA Scooter AKA D.J.

    I agree with Shaun about this commerical rap B.S. It doesn’t show what rap REALLY is.

  • Anthony G

    Josh i claim victory once again.

  • Josh

    Hey Jose, yeah that DOES sound familiar. I said that a million times and you morons kept saying “Duuuhhhh, you didn’t answer the question”.

    And Anthony, the only thing in which you claim victory is ignorance.

  • http://www.tekwh0re.net Ms. Tek

    SHUT UP

    NO YOU SHUT UP

    WELL YOU SUCK

    WELL YOU SUCK MORE, YO MAMMA TOLD ME

    bleurg…??

  • Josh

    Um, Ms. Tek, what exactly does “bleurg” mean?

  • Jose

    Bleurg means rock sucks.

  • jose

    Hey Josh you afraid to talk to me
    after i showed everyone how stupid
    you were during that Dwain incident.

  • Josh

    Guess what, everyone? I checked Jose’s e-mail address and it said ‘Agggggg@aol.com’. That’s Anthony’s e-mail address. So there really is no person called Jose, Anthony just made up that name to make it seem like he had a friend. How cute.

  • psycho

    Boy your dumb you been arguing with
    with a person that doesnt exists for
    several hours, so i felt like being nice
    and taught how to find the email address in the first place, which felt
    good, it was like giving to charity.

    You have no idea how funny it was watching this moron arguing with no one. Dane i cant believe how long it took you.
    Why did think at every site i went to
    jose showed up to. Ya moron.

  • Josh

    Thanks, Anthony, I’m glad you finally admitted to posting as Jose. It’s nice to see that you finally came to your senses.

    And you didn’t teach me how to find e-mail adresses, I learned it myself.

    Cry some more!

  • psycho

    What are you talking about you moron.
    Go back to #32 on Eminem No Racsist.
    And there it shows me as Jose telling
    you how to find the email.

    Then after that you tried to use that
    as a weapon against me on 374(which i
    never wrote) and against me as Jose.

    And aswer my question. why did you
    think after every time i came on a
    on a site jose showed up?

  • Psycho

    Whats wrong i left you speachless.

    CRY SOME MORE

  • Josh

    First of all, Anthony, you already admitted that you wrote 374, so you don’t have to say it.

    I just thought that Jose followed you everywhere because he liked to kiss your ass. But thankfully, I soon found out the truth and exposed you as the fraud that you are (and so did Dwaine).

    Cry some more.

  • Anthony g

    Hey Josh would you please tell me where
    I admitted to posting 374.

  • Dwaine AKA Scooter AKA D.J.

    This is the real Dwaine AKA Scooter AKA D.J. and I just have to say that the arguement between Josh and Anthony G.’s many alteregos has to he one of the funniest feuds over the web. Oh yeah:

    SPELL MY FUCKING NAME RIGHT!!!!!!!!!

  • Dasher

    can’t say as I have ever heard most of the groups mentioned. My kids used to talk about them. Can say I heard Nevermind recently and bought the CD. True nihilistic album – goes beyond the whine. In my top 10. Compare it with Blind Faith. Read Ginsburg’s Howl 2. Earlier generation, same power. Don’t look at the trees, see the forest.

  • brendan mccabe

    just remeber that alot of early rock and roll songs were just simple three chords. Where is there ever a good guitar solo in and elvis song? at least his early ones? and these people made their fans go mad. and eddie van halen is terrible live

  • brendan mccabe

    Nirvana was amazing. even though the may have messed up the chord progressions, they wanted to be different from everyone else, and it worked because they are one of the better known bands in the history of rock and roll. and rock and roll has plenty of emotion, it just isnt a sweet little ballad.