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Nash for NBA MVP? Not Again

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Steve Nash won the NBA MVP race last year. Sigh.

If he wins it again, and going by the “experts” he seems a lock, I swear I am going to file a motion in the court of David Stern.

The bottom line is, Steve Nash shouldn’t win the Maurice Podoloff trophy this year. And let me assure you, he wasn’t the most deserving candidate last year either.

Look. Basketball is a simple game. Score and stop. Find ways to score and find ways to stop others from scoring. This is no String Theory. This is the right and only way to play ball.

Want your name to be floated in the MVP race? You gotta impact both ends of the floor. Period.

The only way I see Nash making a twopeat is if the people who voted for him before do it again — not for basketball reasons but only to vindicate themselves. Come on, who would not? Are you willing to accept that you made a blunder last season? Very few would.

Come April, as the MVP race heats up (assuming it is a bona fide race with at least two legit candidates; the only exception was of course when MJ was playing, there wouldn’t be a second one), the age old recycled arguments appear time and time again — a fine job though, year after year without the colored bins.

Who are we kidding here?

Clearly what defines the MVP is fairly subjective with opinions as diverse as the statistical conclusions from a sample size of five. While I understand Commissioner Stern came up with a dress code for players (would eventually be recognized as The Stern Commandments), the fact that the most prestigious individual basketball honor is left to the free-flowing interpretations of the pundits with an agenda of their own is a bit sad.

I am not complaining. In democracy, for every Bill Clinton there is a George Bush.

(However, to keep the sanctity of the award I hereby request the Commissioner to whisper a few choice words through the proper channels.)

I love Steve Nash. He is one heck of a baller. I fully appreciate what he did last season. I marvel at what he is doing now without the services of a certain Amare Stoudemire. I am aware of every argument the educated analysts are going to pour over in the next few weeks.

True, the Phoenix Suns are a joy to watch and it starts with their master conductor Steve Nash. Night in and night out they play the team ball, rarely skipping a beat or two. A perfect harmony for all there to see and feel good. The blending is a smoothie. But make no mistake, the credit here must go to Mike D’Antoni (who got the Coach of the Year award quite deservingly, and I don’t have a problem with that).

If I recall correctly, it was Eric Neel of ESPN Page 2 who started the Nash for MVP ball rolling last year and he turned out to be dead on.

As the Nash for MVP movement gained steam, my feelings were mixed. I was disappointed because deep down, I felt, Nash, no matter how good, is simply not MVP-caliber. At the same time, I was happily amused watching the whole saga unfold in layers with more twists than in The Sopranos. After all, here is a MVP debate where basketball took a backseat, giving way to hogwashing. For good measure, Dan LeBatard threw in his theory of color and the world went nuts.

Don’t you love free speech and democracy?

The controversies, however, had little to do with Nash’s proficiency with basketball, and more to do with his so called underdog status and he being a small (NBA size and not Wal-Mart) white guy with a freaky hairdo.

This is America. You mention a color from the visible spectrum of light and you are labeled as a racist. Let me tell you this, no matter how sick it sounds on your face, Dan LeBatard of the Miami Herald had a point.

Coming back to Nash for MVP movement, you would never ever hear the pundits talk about his defense or lack of it. The same pundits would go on and on and on how defense wins championships. Disgusting.

How can you legitimately argue for a MVP case without mentioning his ability to play defense? Beyond me.

Yes, I too have an agenda. It is basketball.

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  • I spent a lot of time arguing against Nash last year for this very reason. I wrote columns, went on radio shows, and made enemies with the entire country of Canada (okay, the 12 people who tuned in). This year I was ready to accept it. His ability to keep the Suns at such a high level blew me away, and I felt like he had improved a bit on the defensive end where he was taking more charges and not getting killed every night. But the Clippers game tonight was brutal. Livingston absolutely torched him. Plus, the Suns have lost 8 of their last 15 games and 6 of 10. Nash is putting up a pretty pedestrian 14/9/4 over the past five. I think that the Suns recent slide, Nash’s slump (maybe he’s just wearing out?), and the percentage of voters who feel the way you do will result in Wade taking the hardware. Dirk and LeBron have shots as well, but the Mavs would need to win the West and LeBron, well, he needed to shoot and make the game-tying shot against New York tonight for starters, but he probably needs to keep up the 38/12/9 pace he’s been on lately and have the Cavs win out in order to overcome their place in the standings.

    Anyway, good post, I liked it a lot.

  • Clyde 21


  • For me the MVP should always be the most valuable player (duH). Okay what would make him valuable would be that he has made the most impact for his team cause. A weak team could have an average player make larger impact but that is where a bit of subjectivity comes into the picture and debate arises on whether to chose player x,y or z.

    The impact aspect is a reason I can never decipher why Shaq missed the MVP in years where he powered the Lakers to titles.

  • @Adam
    Thanks and good points.
    Dirk doesn’t have a chance. He is good but again he is just good.
    And I don’t see a German with the award after a Canadian !! what are the odds? :-))
    But watch out LBJ ..he’s covering a lot of ground lately and you are right ..if he keeps the current pace way he has a shot ..you never know.
    Wade..hmm well.. he has a strong case for himself..

    Btw ..thanks for pointing out the Clippers game.

    I am planning to write a post on the usual suspects in the MVP race ..but am so bz lately and with my travels ..not sure if I could make it soon enough. And congrats for your vision on the LB ..loved it. :-))

    Since you said you are almost ok with Nash.. I remember WIlbon came out for Nash last year dismissing the lack of defense objection too…

    @Clyde, Billups? you serious?

    As I mentioned ..this whole business is too subjective..
    as far as the Aristotle is concerned .. it’s a bit of mystery why he has only one MVP to show for in his entire career so far.

  • Clyde 21

    Why not Billups. He is the best player on the best team in the league. Without him Rasheed and Hamilton aren’t all-stars. He has the best assist to turn-over ratio in the league. He is in the top five for FT%, 3pt% and assists. He makes big shots at big moments in big games. Detroit’s record makes him MVP. Take Chauncey off that team and they barely make the playoffs. Oh yeah, he plays DEFENSE.

  • Eric

    Did you actually say anything in this rant?

  • Dirk Nowitzki is the hottest and I mean the HOTTEST player in basketball. He has consistently dropped 30 points a game and helping the Mavs win. Last night he proved that he is the MVP when they BEAT THE SPURS!!

  • Mavs23

    Dirk doesn’t have a chance. He is good but again he is just good?

    This is not true at all… you said Nash or Lebron should win… why? Dirk has been putting up numbers better than Nash and as good as Lebron and he has been winning without Josh Howard, Adrien Griffin, and Devin Harris. If Dirk doesn’t win MVP no one should win it at all.

  • j287c

    GO DIRK!!

  • tony

    Guys if you say you have fun watching Suns then you were so covered by thier offense and missed thier style “good defense is the best offense” and will it take them to title we will have to wait. For following and prooving this idealogy Mike got Coach of the year and for implementing this with unimaginable commitment towards the game and his team nash got the MVP – no more arguements, these two people rocked NBA which resulted in their popular “unorthodox play style”
    This year- as Billups put it: it should be either him or Nash, and I pick Nash cos in pistons its both billups and ben who push that team to a new level. Other have no impact on thier team.
    If MVP should lead NBA to new heights it should be given to “team players” for this “team ball game” not for personal talent or scoring.

  • Dirk is not even the best player in the league in his position. He is definitely unique with his range for a big man but nahh..would you pick him over KG or TD?

    Billups is a good case for argument’s sake.. I agree …but with the pistons..you take one of the starters out …any one… hmmm.. i am not convinced

    and I never said LBJ should win.. .. I said he is quickly making himself felt in the race…did u watch the game against Nets?

  • As a near-Detroit-and-Cleveland man, I think Billups and LeBron are both viable candidates — top five candidates, even. Billups is more of an intangibles bringer, James gives you triple-doubles.

    More players would be more likely to vote Billups, but I think my vote goes to LeBron.

  • Woody


    Thank you, thank you, thank you.

    Someone has to stand up to this pro-Steve propaganda. It amazes me how any rationale person could look at the stats and pick Steve as the MVP.
    If you look at points per game, he ranks 31st. 31st!!!

    There are, of course, also assists. Let’s look at my patented Nash-Friendly Offensive Formula (NOF). It is dead simple. You just give a player *two points for each assist* and add it to their points scored. This is being really generous to Nash in his best category. As of today, we get:

    Allen Iverson – 48
    Lebron James – 45
    Kobe Bryant – 44
    Dwayne Wade – 41
    Gilbert Arenas – 41
    Steve Nash – 40

    No matter how you slice, he is just not producing MVP-caliber offense. And that isn’t even getting into the defense issue…

  • David Dawson

    Steve Nash deserves MVP honours arguably more this year then last year, last year arguably Shaq should have got it or wasdeserving of it as well, seeing how he brought Miami from 40 wins to 59 wins and Lakers did not even reach the playoffs, Nash on the other hand last year left Dallas and they were still a 50 win team. Let us look at this year, that with a total different team on Phoenix except Shawn Marion, Steve nash has allowed his team to still win 51 games this year and counting, no one has been able to duplicate that, even Shaq & Wade still had Haslem & Morning from last years crop along with Payton at the latter part of the season. Every other MVP candidate whether Dirk, Chauncey, Lebron, Tim, all have the same team members for the past 3 years so those teams should be doing good, you put any of those other players on other teams especially in the Phoneix senario and the best they would do is maybe 45 wins and that is with the likes of maybe a Tim Duncan & a Shaq. Any game is about winning and this statement that defence wins championships is a half truth last I remember as long as you (outscore) the other side at the end of the game you win. whether you beat them 77 – 75 or 175 – 170, as long as you win. Nash has made every body on his team better, which makes a team better and that his something Kobe, Iverson and Gilbert Arenas is not able to do although ther points & assists totals maybe better then Nash and as for Lebron & Wade, they Wade still had Shaq this year (and when Shaq was out they were a 500 team, and Lebron still had Ilgaskus and gooden, again all Nash had was Marion, even guys coming of the bench for Phoneix is no longer on the team this year (e.g Hunter who is in Phillie). Nuff said Nash for MVP.

  • Alex

    I think when it comes down to MVP you gotta go with Billups. To me, the MVP is the player who does what ever his team needs to ensure a win. That may not be scoring 30 points every night. It might just be 6 crucial points late in the fourth, or the ability to distribute the ball well enough to have 5 players in double figures almost every night. And if you want to talk about Nash’s assists…Dont forget to look at his turnovers.

    Forget Kobe

    I think Lebron needs a few more years but come then i am thoughly convinved he’ll run the NBA. He just turned 21 for god’s sake.

    I like Dirk, but he has no heart. I dont think I could call him a leader, but the man can certainly play basketball.

    Chauncey has that aire of confedence without arrogence that makes him the best team’s fearless leader. That what the MVP is all about.

  • Chauncey, Dirk, Lebron, Brandt, Wade, Shaq, Parker, Tim don’t fall off your seats, but Kidd & Vince, should also be considered for MVP honours, all the above mentioned men are on teams with at least 44 wins, and why not Carmelo as well. However if you take Chauncey Billups off the Pistons, they still will be a 45 win team enough in the east to be in the top 5 in the conference, however if you get rid of Nash off Phx, you’ll be lucky if they would have a better record then the Knicks, never mind The Raptors. As I stated earlier not taking anything from the above mentioned players, but all of these guys had the same players with them since last year, Nash from last year only has Marion, oh correction Barbosa as well, Come on guys that’s like having a 3 player deal from Phx to Charlotte, Raptors, Portland or any of the League bottom feeding teams, but Look what Nash has allowed Marion, Barbosa and his new cast to accompish, 52 wins and counting, the team stats don’t lie. Nash makes not a team but any team not just a good team, but a conference strong team. Any guy who can help give me as a GM 52 wins, without a true centre and PF, he is my MVP any year (with mostly a new cast). Nash makes everyone on the team have confidence in themeselves and in the team, look at Diaw’s numbers, the man is almost avg a triple double this yr 13pts 6 boards & 6 assist almost tripleing his numbers from last year as a 24 yr old sophmore in the NBA, think about it, if he was on any other team, would he have a chance to show his skills with such confidence. And Phx coach, man he should be up there for coach of the year, to allow the team to have such chemistry with new fixtures and still no real bench depth. Serious you Nash doubters; if Lebron Igaulkus or (Gooden) and Snow from Cleveland; from Dallas Dirk, Terry and Marquis Daniels; Detroit Billups, Rasheed or Ben Wallace and Lindsay hunter; Clippers Brandt, Maggette or Cassells and Livingston. Would any of these combinations if you were to uproot them and put them on a team that is no more then a 35 win team or if you were to take all the other surronding players from them and put them with a total new cast, would they be able to do what Steve Nash has been able to to with Phx, that is an MVP question. 52 wins for PHX is not a wish, projection or hair brain prediction it is a fact, with only three remaining players from the year before and 1 of them Barbosa is a sophmore in the NBA at age 23, who’s avg 9 pts 2 assist & 2 rebs a game, far from being an all star calibre player, darn I don’t even think he was on the rookie or sophmore NBA all star team yet still those numbers are still respectable and obviously helpful to a team because of a team player by the name of Nash. Oh by the way, if you also think that Wade deserves MVP honours or Parker, that means you think Marion is just as good as Tim Duncan & Shaq, which with his numbers this year that is not hard to argue for. The team wins don’t lie in the tough western conference Nash for MVP. Not to go into the archives but what I don’t understand is, if you went on a team that had 26 wins before you came and with the same team you help them turn around and win 50 games, don’t you think they should get the MVP award, Poor JAson Kidd he should have got it in 2001 instead of Tim. Anyways this year 2006 Nash again MVP, well deserved.

  • moe

    kobe is the mvp because he put the lakers in th playoff, beating this year a lot of franchise records: 81 points, 63 points in 3 quarters, 28 times he pass the 40 points, 6 times the 50, 2 time the 60, and one time the 80. If we change an MVP like Steve NASh with a decent player to a team, nothing will change to this team. But if we do this thing to Kobe, the lakers will be in the bottom of the ranking.

  • Who among the top 5 Players has an excellent offense with a great defense ? KOBE !!!!!

  • David Dawson

    If you do a trade for Nash & Kobe, you will see the true show time in LA, hey Lakers will win 50 games or more, with Nash, he did it this year with the Suns, how much wins does the Lakers have with Kobe whom 45 and the Lakers struggled their way into the playoffs, with 2-3 games left. Maybe the Lakers should thank Nash & Bell for not playing, so that the Lakers can (FINALLY) clinch a playoff berth.

  • “would you pick him over KG”

    In a heartbeat. KG is the most over-rated player in the league, IMO…

  • Here is a vote for Billips.

    Hey, how about Antonio McDuck as Sixth Man of the year?

  • Here’s another vote for Billups…

  • RJ, that last column was going great until he said “I can’t give it to Nash twice,” which was what they said about Hillary Swank not being a good enough actress to have two Best Actress awards.

    Last season doesn’t matter. Billups has a case, but so does pretty much everyone else.

    Somehow I think everyone will get one first place vote and the MVP will shockingly go to Darko Milicic.

  • David Dawson

    Darko that is a good one, LOL!

  • I like the Dark-o-Mili-pick. I am confident Chad Ford likes it more.
    This season…I don’t think anyone in particular stands out .. for me it has to be a pick via elimination.

    Kobe makes a great case for himself. He also contributed singlehandedly to the most embarassing three minutes.. anyone who watched his 81 point game against the Babcocked Raptors would attest to the fact.

    Right now am still slightly in favor of Wade.. however given my sinusoidal state of mind ..that might change.

  • Steve nash MVP – not the best player but the most valuable – kobe is the best player – no doubt – but it doesn’t show on a loser team like the lakers – the suns would suck w/o nash – he makes the entire team better – assists – FT shooting 92% – total team player -51% from the field – give me a break – shawn marion would suck with out nash – forget defense – its over rated –

  • PIMPSTA578

    kobe is the mvp no doubt he may not get it but he is the mvp if u take him off the lakers the lakers woodnt win 15 games this year and he is pretty much scoring at will and he plays hardcore Defense. Even LeBron adimmted kobe’s better.

  • TED

    Isnt it more important to more clearly define MVP? Is it all about scoring, is it about wins? Clearly, everybody feels that the MVP is more than just the tabulation of their stats. There is an intangible quality that matters a lot. Although I don’t necessarily agree with it, it is that intangible quality that many people are using to elect Steve Nash as MVP.

  • David Dawson

    Ted, thats exactly what makes Nash so special, the fact that he had only 3 guys from last year Marion & Barbosa, remember Amare only played 3 games this yr avg 8pts 5 boards, so if you even subtract the 3 games he played from 53 wins this year, thats still 50 wins without Amare. Chemistry is what is important to any top seeded team and the fact that Nash was able to have (ANY) 3 players come into the starting line up with him and Marion (remember Barbosa was a bench player last year) is phenomenal. You say that Lebron had the same guys from last year, besides Damon Jones & Donyell Marshall and that is precisley the point, Lebron had the 3 starters fromp last year; Snow, Igalskus & Gooden, that’s four of your starting line up from last year, again Nash only had Marion as a starter last year & Barbosa as a bench player from last year. In mentioning Joe Johnson success last year, well yes Joe is doing well this year as well but have you seen Quentin’s number on a team with a guard like Marbury who’s best years was in Minnesota but left and has never produced a playoff team since. Quentin went from 14 pts a game last year(2nd highest in his 6yrs in the league) to 8pts per game (the worst since his rookie yr). I’m not taking anything away from all the other MVP worthy candidates, Lebron, Kobe, Brandt, Wade, Shaq, Marion, Carmelo, Parker, Tim, Dirk, Gasol (how the hell does Memphis compete in the NBA never mind in the west year to year) Kidd, maybe even Vince (lol) etc even Chis Paul. But this is what makes Nash special. While Nash was in Dallas he was developing more confidence in his game which Dallas is good for giving young players. In Dallas they have always had exceptional talent, but ever since I’ve watched Dallas since Nash has been in Dallas, they never really had a true big man. Not to say Dirk is not a big man, but his game is not to really play inside, which makes Dallas a great team and Sean Bradley got to love the guys heart, but he is a big guy in height and thats all. If Nash was in Dallas now with Dampier, Dallas with Dirk, Nash & the rest, would be even more of an unstoppable force, because at least Dampier can potentially give you 8-10 pts a game and the same in rebounds. Now check this out, Nash & the Suns had that in Amare last year, but Nash, Marion & Barbosa was able to adapt and still work a Dallas like offence without a true big man and win 53 games. Marion plays somewhat like Dirk, shooter slasher, but he can do one more thing a little better then Dirk catch those(alley oops). Remember Diaw is not a big man he is 6 ft 8inches and he had to play center while Marion played PF, becuz Kurt Thomas only played 53 games this year and Brian Grant only played about 20 as big men for the Suns, yes these are some of the intangibles Nash gives to make him a worthy MVP this year even possibly more then last year.



    KOBE FOR MVP MAN. THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE. GO LAKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • David Dawson

    Check this out you all, the Wilt Chamberlain award for the player with the most points & Rebounds as an avg per year. The criteria would be that a player would have to avg at least 10 boards & 20 pts per game to qualify, so the likes of Marion, Brandt, Garnett etc, would be in the runnings. Also the Bill Russell award for the most boards per game in a season. The Magic Johnson/John Stockton award for the most assist per game in a season, The Michael Jordan / Wilt Chamberlain award for the most pts per game in a season. The Oscar Robertson award for the player with the most Triple doubles in a season. And finally the most outstanding player of the year award similar to what they have in NCAA basketball. That should give elite players to be the best in what they do, regardless of how good or bad their teams are.
    Oops forgot most steals & blocks per game award as well.

  • alex

    Why is it that all Kobe fans do is write KOBE in capital letters?

    People make remarks about Cauncey being undeserving because he plays with three other all-stars, but does that take away from his own talent?

    Steve Nash is a good canidate, but he plays with marion, who some consider to be in the MVP runnings! If you penialize Chauncey, Nash ought to also be over looked. Nash is undeniably the most important player on the suns, with out him they hardly have a chance, but could the pistons win the National Tittle with out him? I think a player being the difference between a national championship and and early ride home is most important. I think it’s safe to say the suns are not going to the finals, and correct me if im wrong but no one has ever won MVP for the regular season who was not a member of the top two teams.

    I dont think Chauncey will get it, but i think he should.

  • David Dawson

    You said Alex, Detroit has 4 allstars to Nash & Marion’s 2. Not to take anything from Billups, but Billiups had the same 5 players for the past 2 yrs including McDyes, Nash & Marion had to incorporate 7-8 new players into the Suns program (and no matter how good a system is, it takes the players to make it work) no Amare. 2-3 new players in the staring line up (barbosa last year moved from bench player to sometime starter. And for records, Suns are the 2nd seed in the West, 3rd seed in the league & have the 4th best record in the league. That seems like MVP numbers to me.

  • resistanze

    Billups > James/Nowitzki > Bryant > Nash

    In my opinion. This overcrediting of Steve Nash has got to stop. It’s funny because I was watching my local NBA TV station and one of the pundits asked everyone’s opinon on MVP, half of them said Nash. She went on to say that she changed her vote from Nash after talking to him, where he gave most of their credit to D’Antonio’s style of play.

    I’m from Canada, I love watching him play, but come on. After the Pistons-Suns game I knew I was voting for Billups. It’s ironic the article criticized Wade for having high turnovers when Nash is THIRD IN THE LEAGUE IN TURNOVERS BEHIND WADE! He also struggles on D like he always has.

    Let’s stop looking at Nash in a vacuum. He was in the NBA for 8 years before coming back to PHX. Being logical here, why would you attribute PHX’s sucess to the “sudden escalation of Nash’s game” rather than the system D’Antoni has set up? Why wasn’t Nash playing to this calibur (ie: “making his teammates better”) with Dallas?

    Billups deserves this honour. Clutch, first-time all-star, best in Assist to TOs, best record in NBA. Except for AI, the past like 8 MVPs have been from the team with the best or second-best record anyways.

    The only repeat award in PHX I wouldn’t mind seeing is coach of the year.

  • David Dawson

    Dallas always had a core of good players, Phx was up & coming with Marion & Amare but did not have a floor general to implement any good system, Nash is given honour to D’Antonio becuz he is not a selfish person and it shows on the court. It does’t matter again how good a system is, if you don’t have a good floor general(s) to run it, it won’t be done.

  • resistanze

    Maybe Nash gave the credit to D’Antoni because he’s sick of everyone riding the bandwagon. My question still stands, why wasn’t Nash’s floor general skills esclating Dallas’ game to the next level?

    Once again, these guys Nash play with are not blind; Diaw had a triple-double on consective games without Nash.

    But I do agree with you that you need a good point guard to operate a good coaching system. That’s why Billups is the MVP, as he runs the NBA’s best team.

  • resistanze

    Another thing, people are inconistent in their analysis of what makes an MVP. Let’s not use 4 all-stars on Detroit to deny Billups, that’s unfair.

    We all know most of the Pistons team were not voted in, they were rewarded by their coach for having the best record. There were many people left off the all-star team that had way better stats than most of the Pistons.

    If you’re gonna use good players around Billups to deny him of MVP, you should take away MVPs from Duncan, Garnett, Jordan and Magic Johnson, who all had excellent teams to work with.

    Also, by this reasoning, there’s no reason why we shouldn’t vote Bryant for MVP then. His supporting cast is VERY weak and thery’re in the playoffs.

  • alex

    well said

  • David Dawson

    2 things in regards to Nash and arguable for him to be the MVP again:

    -It is possible if Nash had a ok true Center like Dampier (who had 12 pts, 12 rbs & 2 blocks in last nights game, he also ranked 5th in the league in offensive rebounds)I believe Dirk, Nash & the rest of the Maveriks would at least be in the conference finals if not be NBA champs. With no Amare this year, the suns lose that big man and IF The Suns are able to past Kobe & the Lakers, I have real reservations if they will be able to go any further. Unless the totaly rejuvenated Tim Thomas will be able to give at least 8 rebounds a game and maybe 10 pts or more.

    – Nash deserves MVP honours also because he practicly has a new unproven team to work with and he accomplished it without Amare and Kurt Thomas for the past 15-20 games major, that is an MVP. Checkout what the NBA 2005-2006 preseason scouting report was saying about the Suns season.
    “The Suns should still put lots of points on the board, and if they can stay in the playoff picture and get Stoudemire back healthy for the stretch run, they will be a stronger defensive team and more fit for playoff basketball”.
    < http://www.nba.com/preview2005/pho.html,>
    Thats right people even the experts wasn’t sure if Nash, Marion & the suns would even make the playoffs, 52 wins latter. Let’s what they said about Detroit:
    “A key addition for the team is in the backcourt, where Maurice Evans will provide valuable rest for Tayshaun Prince, who averaged 37.1 minutes per game in the regular season and 40.9 in the playoffs.

    Evans will be joined in a reserve capacity by the brothers Carlos – Arroyo and Delfino – who are expected to grow into their roles this season. Arroyo, because of question marks surrounding his defensive abilities, found limited minutes backing up Chauncey Billups under Brown. Delfino, meanwhile, struggled to recover from knee surgery and ultimately was left off the Pistons’ playoff roster.

    If the bench can grow and provide solid relief to one of the best starting units in the business, the Pistons could be bound for a shot at another title”.
    Detroit was expected to do good & be champs, no concerns unlike the Amareless, new roster Suns.
    They have something on The Lakers as well:
    “Phil Jackson will spread the floor, and do the best execution they can with the Triangle, I don’t see why he would change now. The question is that he has no real center right now, like he did with Bill Cartwright to a certain degree and certainly with Shaq. We saw how hard it is for Chris Mihm to even be a passing center. So, there are a lot of questions within this Triangle. I don’t think there is one player here that can run it successfully outside of Luke Walton and Kobe. Their goal is to make the playoffs, we’ll see… Phil does some of his best coaching with the odds stacked against his team (remember the Bulls won 55 games in 1993-94, Michael Jordan’s first season in retirement)”.

    There you go people, Lakers didn’t reach 50 games with not so great odds, but Nash and the Suns did. Maybe Pippen should have won MVP the 1st time Jordon retired, with 55 wins without the great one by averaging only 22pts but a respectable 8 boards a game. Let’s see what they have to say about Dallas:
    “Dirk Nowitzki has always been considered the Mavericks’ franchise player.
    This year, it’s as if he’s the Maverick franchise’s only player. Nowitzki has seen a Dallas core that once included the likes of Steve Nash, Antawn Jamison, Antoine Walker and Michael Finley — all four of which are gone — disintegrate over the last two summers.

    Nevertheless, after Nash signed a free agent deal with Phoenix in ’04, Nowitzki responded favorably when observers predicted his absence would dramatically hamper his game. The All-NBA First Team selection averaged career-highs in scoring (26.2 ppg), assists (3.1 apg) and blocks (1.53 bpg) as the Mavericks went from 52 to 58 wins. But to ask Nowitzki and the club as a whole to continue that success with Finley now gone may be asking too much.

    Finley was waived in August by Dallas under the new amnesty clause. The team’s second leading scorer last season, Finley helped take heat off Nowitzki with his long-range shooting ability. Finley’s replacement, Doug Christie, shot .242 from beyond the arc last season, well below his career percentage of .355. The Mavericks only have one player — Terry — who converted at least 40 percent from three-point range in ’04-05.

    Terry, Keith Van Horn, Jerry Stackhouse, Josh Howard and Marquis Daniels are all solid players, but none of them may be the legitimate No. 2 option Nowitzki needs. Only Stackhouse is a consistent threat to score but as shown by his career .410 shooting percentage, he needs a lot of attempts to put the ball in the hole.Van Horn plays the same position as Nowitzki, so his minutes could be limited as they were last year when he came in a trade from Milwaukee. Daniels and Howard are both slashers and can’t spread the floor.

    How the German superstar responds to the increase in defensive attention he’ll see next season will go along way in determining the success of the team. If the task proves to be too much for Nowitzki to handle, expect the task of winning in the postseason to be too much for the Mavericks as well”.

    Again every team, besides maybe the Lakers, were suppose to reach the playoffs, not necessarily the Suns. I was going to stop at Dallas but lets throw Cleveland in as well:
    “After faltering in the homestretch the past two seasons to miss the playoffs, Cavaliers management re-tooled this summer to give LeBron James the help he needs to get the team over the hump. The most significant moves were made in the backcourt, where new acquisitions Larry Hughes and Damon Jones should provide dependable shooting. With the guard play shored up, questions remain in the frontcourt.
    The team took a hit this summer with Anderson Varejao set to start the season on the sidelines. Varejao underwent surgery to repair a dislocated right shoulder – an injury suffered during a World Championship qualifying game in the Dominican Republic – and a date for his return has not been set. The energetic and wild-haired forward will be missed by the team and fans alike. As a rookie last year, Varejao quickly earned a reputation, not to mention the fans’ admiration, for his hustle chasing down rebounds – he ranked fourth among rookies in rebounds per 48 minutes.

    Based on Varejao’s history, look for him to have a significant impact immediately upon his return. He rebounded from a high ankle sprain that caused him to miss 15 games last season, averaging nearly 19 minutes per game to end the season.

    Collecting a few of those extra boards while Varejao is out will be new addition Donyell Marshall, who figures to battle for the starting power forward spot with Drew Gooden. In addition to being a big body able to provide a scoring and defensive punch, Marshall gives the team another perimeter scoring threat. Marshall has consistently improved his accuracy from beyond the arc, nailing a career best 41.6 percent last season – including tying an NBA single-game record for most triples in a game (12) on Mar. 13.
    Marshall, Gooden, Varejao and re-signed All-Star center Zydrunas Ilgauskas comprise a decent front line – if lacking a little depth – but with the backcourt needs addressed and James shedding the weight of a city this year, there’s no reason the Cavaliers should be watching from home in late April”.

    I’m done, Peace.

  • David Dawson
  • For all Chauncey fans out there 🙂 …

    – if we replace Chauncey with a generic but above average NBA calibre point guard, do you think the Pistons would become a terrible team?

    I think they will still be a 50+ team. The other Pistons are that good.

    The MVP award is not about picking the best player in the best team folks.

    Hypothetically speaking, take your MVP pick (whoever he is) and imagine him replaced by a generic player who plays the same position .. then ask yourself, realistically how many wins this team could manage ?

    I am not saying this simple replacement by hypothesis can define the value added to a team by a certain player.. but certainly it can provide an intuitive way to look at the situation.. and form a fair idea about any candidate in the mix.

  • resistanze

    Well, that’s one problem with the MVP award, the defintion is so subjective that people define it in terms to suit their candidate. The league should probably try to define it better so we avoid unecssary time deciding on what makes one.

    But anyways, let’s go back to the year Michael Jordan retired (1993-94). The following year, the Bulls won 55 GAMES. In all honesty, you won’t find people arguing to strip MJ of any MVPs. And as I said before, Kobe Bryant is probably the MVP is this light, because he carried this team on hi back to the 7th seed. So I’m not completely bought by that perspective.

    Another thing about penalizing of Chauncy for having good players. This logic works completely AGAINST Steve Nash’s winning the MVP last year. Look at the stats of the starting 5 of Detroit this year and compare them to the Suns last year; they were arguably better. We didn’t penalize Nash (in fact, we gave him all the credit); we shouldn’t punish Chauncy.

    Ah well, he won’t win anyways :'(

  • David Dawson

    Reason why Nash deserved it last year, is Marion & Amare was on the Suns the year before putting up respectable numbers & before Nash was a Sun they only won (33 games), Detroit and in case you forgotten, Detroit (with the same team) was in the finals last year and the year before that won the championship. I would even argue without aquiring Rasheed that year when they won the Finals, they probably would not have won it without Rasheed, the team is complete now, he was the missing link, thats what makes Detroit special a true MVP team, all for one and all for one, similar to San Antonio this year. I would argue however as I stated earlier that last year although both Nash & Shaq deserved MVP honours for both bringing their team to the playoffs (Nash) or giving their teams at least 20 more wins (both Shaq & Nash). The fact that the Lakers did not make the playoffs and only won a miserable 33 games the 1st year without Shaq & that Dallas won 6 more games (58) after Nash left, I would have given Shaq the award for that reason. Some MVP panelist say you can’t put the team an MVP left last year into the equasion, which I think is hogwash, Lakers won 50 or more games when Shaq was there he leaves and Kobe stays & they win only 33. That I believe would show that not only was Shaq invaluable to his new team the Heat but also to the Lakers, we can’t necessarily say the same for Nash when it comes to Dallas. And the fact that the Lakers had to wait till the last 3 games of this season to even clinch a playoff berth, that was unheard of in the era of Shaq & the Lakers.

  • David Dawson

    Oh by the way, did you notice last year that Miami had the same team only with the exception of Odom and Butler who went to the Lakers & Lakers had the same team except for Shaq & Fisher. My question is, why was Miami able to win 20 more games then the year before? and remember Wade was in Miami when Odom & Butler was there when they made that nice playoff run in 2003. Wade said it best “..Shaq commands so much attention that it opens the floor for the rest of the team, which helps make the team have more open shots, drives (makes the team better) that what makes Shaq an MVP, he makes everyone better by putting the fear in other teams defence, use what you got, Shaq has girth strenght speed (for a man his size) if you got it flont it. And remember Lakers did not have any success last year.

  • Shaq is worn-out and used-up. That’s why he didn’t win the MVP last year, and that’s why no one is talking about him winning it this year.

    Shaq is about a year away from retirement. He is a train-wreck, physically.

    Steve Nash could play for another 10 years. So could Billups. And Lebron could play for 20.

    Also, Shaq hates Asian people, and still can’t make a free throw to save his life.

    F**K Shaq, and F**K the Heat…

  • @resistanze
    You are right about the issue of subjectivity… I actually mentioned this in the article itself ..
    “Clearly what defines the MVP is fairly subjective with opinions as diverse as the statistical conclusions from a sample size of five. ……. the fact that the most prestigious individual basketball honor is left to the free-flowing interpretations of the pundits with an agenda of their own is a bit sad.”

    Now that I think about it more.. I have come to love this playing field without well defined borders. A set of STERN rules however would take the fun away from picking your own MVP.

    The question is about the value added to a team by a certain player. This is inherently qualitative and getting bogged down by statistics do not help either except when there is a clear cut case for an individual.

    It is often quoted that numbers don’t lie. Perhaps they don’t but they hide a lot.

    Having good players in a team may not be a disqualifier for a prospective candidate. Chauncey’s case however is hurt by the simple fact that any reasonable replacement of him would still push the Pisons past 50 wins.

    Regarding last year’s Suns (04-05), Nash definitely improved that team but people forget that Amare played only 55 games in the year before (03-04) Nash arrived.

    I would suggest everyone to look at the 2002-2003 season when Starbury was running the show with Amare and Shawn healthy – they made the playoffs.

    This again brings back to the question how much value Nash added to the team during his first sunny year. Not that much as people would like us to believe. The comparisons are invariably with the year before when Amare was available for only 55 games.

    Again: lets look at the numbers.. .. but dig a little more.

  • resistanze

    You bring up some very intersting points.

    However, I would still say, historically speaking, the “best player on the best team” or even just “the best player” has been actually a common approach for choosing the MVP, by just looking at the past 20 seasons. “MVP teams,” as Dawson stated, HAVE won the the bulk of the MVP awards.

    An example of the “best player” winning MVP was when Jordan won in ’88 with 35/5.5/6 averages, on a 50-32 team (eerily similar to LeBron). Magic Johnson surely benefitted from being “the best player on the best team”, as he won 3 in 4 years with the Conference leading Lakers. Throughout the 90s, the best team more often than not landed the top player with MVP award.

    Once again, I would like to point out that a player like Michael Jordan should have been hurt by the “value” approach. If the Bulls could still win 50+ games without him, and if he served to just push them over 60 wins, wasn’t he in the same position Chauncy is in now?

    However, I do agree that we should consider the “real” impact a player has on his team. How much it should be weighted on the award, I’m not sure yet, as people have ued prima facie arguments regarding this to give Nash the award.

    Now, I have an examination to study for 🙂

  • Rob Mason

    It should be Nash and Marion for CO-MVPS
    Nash running the show. Leading the league in both assists and free-throw percentage. Being a Canadian It pains me to say this but it’s not all him. Marions 20+ 10+ every game is just as important. They are an even better combo than Shaq-Wade Duncan-Parker, and any other 1-2 punch in the league. Remember a 1-2 combo of Stockton-Malone?? Nash-Marion is the new Millenium version.

  • resistanze

    Well apparently, Steve Nash has won again. Not suprising, but dissapointing considering the points I brought up. Ah well.

  • David Dawson

    Wow a Shaq hater with a personal hatred at that, ignoring all what Shaq has done & is still doing on the court for his team, oh well.
    Q bit you are sort of missing the point that Marbury & Marion when a (younger and less experience Amare 20 pts 6 rbs) missed 55 games in 2003-2004, that was all the more reason for them to push the Suns to the playoffs, which they did not do with 33 games only. Let’s look at the Suns last year with a more season Amare 26pts 8 rbs 63 wins. This year only 3 games with Amare missed 79 games 8pts 5 rbs, why was Nash, Marion & the rest of the unproven injured Suns able to win 54 games without Amare, & Marbury & Marion & the Suns in that year was not able to reach 35 wins never mind 50. You said it earlier Q bit, there is now an intangible thing Nash has developed since being & leaving Dallas, whether its confidence in passing game, his game his team, what ever that intagible thing is, it is showing on the court, I hope that was looking at the numbers a little deeper for you. And resistence if anyone else wins the MVP besides Nash I may not agree, but far from it to be a disappointment, these players make the league (FANTASTIC) what it disappointing about that?.

  • resistanze

    Maybe you and I use the word “disappointment” in different terms. I’ve already stated that Nash would be 4th or 5th in MVP in my opinion, so I’m definately not refering to him a some kind of disgrace. With the posts you made stating your case for Nash I would imagine you would feel some dissapointment if Kobe were to win.

  • Jeremy Johnson

    “Look. Basketball is a simple game. Score and stop.”

    Whoever wrote this should not be writing about basketball and has no insight into the game.

  • baller

    Yo, anyone who balls knows that Nash is well deserving and that he is having another wicked season worthy of MVP. James and Billups are in contention, but I think overall Nash is the man.

  • @Jeremy: why not enlighten us? 🙂

    @resistanze: Now that Nash grabbed it again – it’s a shame. The voting is not yet out but expect it to be very very close.

    @David: Intangibles are better left as intangibles. Nevertheless, a sense of excellence , confidence, swagger and playing-to-win attitude are some of the virtues every MVP should bring to the team regardless of numbers he puts up on a daily basis.
    Treading a grey zone of virtues is never easy- the MVP debate is an example.
    You think Chauncey is the best player in the Pistons team? I think not – I rather not use the word best for any of their starters- they are wonderfully fitted together – the whole is a lot better than the sum of parts.

  • KOBE

    KOBE – Will be the best player that ever played the game when he retires. Hated by everyone, so he will be robbed of the MVP many many times. Not surprising at all. Most hated player in the most hated team. Give the MVP to Nash hes gonna need something to keep mis mind off Lakers beating them out of the first round. Keep hating on KOBE, it fuels him. L A K E R S.

  • no.8 lover

    kobe is the most talented player in this league. he must win the mvp honor,at the first half of the season he tries to win but there are lot of consistency on his teamate.kobe step up and make a big basket every game and that would make them turn around for a big win,
    in there 45 wins 40 of those game kobe bryant is the key of there success!!! so please to all voters go for KOBE… im frm philippines

  • Kobe Bryant is the tightest and best player in the NBA. I beleive he will stay at the number 1 spot untill his career is over. I also beleave that he will end up in the number one spot in points scored in one game. He is the best player in the NBA and that will never change. GO KOBE!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Kobe u are the tightest player to ever play in the NBA.with out you the lakers would be nothing!!! you score about 60 points a game, you are the best player to ever play in the NBA.Kobe kobe ko0be kobe kobe the fliping best player to ever play in the NBA.kobe you should call me some time lol (1541)787-0508!!!tight. I watch every game of your u should hook me up with some tickets. you are the best jplayer to ever play in the NBA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PEACE

  • C.J.


  • David Dawson

    With the numbers Kobe put up this year and that although Lakers at the end just made the playoffs
    that is what is important they made it, I would disagree that Kobe were to get it but not disappointed, I will tell you one thing though, when Jason kidd lost out to Tim Duncan in I think the 2001 season, I will admit I was disappointed. I’m still baffled by that one. Jersey with Marbury never reached the playoffs, Kidd comes & not only do they reach the playoffs they win at least 24 more games then their 26 the year before with Kidds 1st year on the Team, and they give it to Tim D. who never made his team better by winning the same 58 wins. That to me was a disappointment.

  • David I am with you here. Jason should have won. For the sake of completeness let us ask why Shaq has one, Jason none and Nash back to back.

  • David Dawson

    I hear you on that too, Shaq last year should have won it, not by a land slide but maybe co MVP last year, like the all star game.

  • Jay

    It is interesting how Steve Nash is praised for the style of basketball Jason Kidd revived in the league. Kidd started it in Dallas and Nash has followed in his footsteps from Dallas to Phoenix. When Kidd was injury free he played just as Nash does now. The only difference is Nash is a better shooter. Kidd was a better rebounder and ball stealer. So technically Kidd has better defense because he rebounds and steals the ball often. However, neither player has great man-to-man defense. Jason Kidd makes everyone around him better and he gets triple doubles even when he’s not a 100%. Steve Nash is a poor man’s Jason Kidd. If Kidd were 100% Nash couldn’t touch him as the league’s best PG. Nash is a very good point guard. He does what a point guard is supposed to do, distribute the ball to his teammates and control the tempo of the game. I guess everyone is so shocked to see a pass first PG that they think it’s MVP material. An MVP should be a player that any team in the league would trade their best player to get. Would Cleveland trade Lebron for Nash? Would Miami trade Wade for Nash? Would the Lakers trade Kobe for Nash? Would the Clippers trade Brand for Nash? Dallas already made their decision. They rather have Dirk than Nash. Nash is a very good player but not so good most teams who give up their franchise player for him. He’s the MVP on the Suns but the the MVP in the NBA.

  • David Dawson

    Interesting points you brought up Jay, you were saying would a team trade their best player for Nash and you said as an e.g. Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Brand, Dirk. It is interesting that the oldest persons in the group are Kobe & Dirk who will both turn 28 yrs old in August & June this year respectively, which makes all these players you’ve, mentioned at least 4 yrs younger then a 6 ft 3 inch point guard (Nash)who doesn’t have an explosive jumping or athletic game, but can definetly ball. But I would ask you this, would you trade Kobe for a younger & proven talent in Wade or Lebron, maybe Dirk or Brand for Wade or Lebron?, does this make Kobe, Dirk or Brand any less of an MVP to their team or even to the league if a team were to make that trade?

  • HP

    Steve Nash should not have won the MVP. In my opinion only three players should have been in the running for MVP: Dirk Nowitzki, LeBron James and Chauncey Billups. Who does Dirk Nowitzki have on his team? The 2nd best player on the Mavs is Josh Howard. Steve Nash has Shawn Marion to work with. Boris Diaw was getting triple doubles when Steve Nash was out for a few games. Raja Bell is a 3 point machine.. Steve Nash is not the reason Raja Bell hits 3s. Dirk Nowitzki’s Mavs won more games with less help surrounding him than the Suns. LeBron James was amazing this year. He averaged close to 33-7-7. That is absolutely ridiculous. He led the Cavs to 50 wins with Larry Hughes injured most of the time. Who does he have surrounding him? Damon Jones tanked this year. Zydrunus Ilgauskas had a down year and Drew Gooden is a nice player but definitely nowhere near Shawn Marion’s caliber. You take LeBron James off the Cavs and they are battling with the Knicks for the first pick in the upcoming draft. You take Nash off the Suns, the Suns are battling for a playoff spot. Chauncey Billups.. the best player on the best team. He makes the Pistons go. His assist to turnover ratio is amazing. I bet if you adjusted his assists to the tempo that the Pistons play at versus where the Suns play they would be very close in APG. He does NOT turn the ball over and he plays defense. He is a better player than Nash. If I had to pick a point guard to start a team Billups would be my choice. He’s smart, he’s clutch, he doesn’t turn the ball over and he plays defense. Nash is smart, he’s clutch, but he turns the ball over (Game 4.) and does not play good D. Defense wins championships and that’s why Suns can never win one with their style of play. That is also the reason the Lakers will win that series. I didn’t consider Kobe as top three because I don’t think a player from a team that barely made the playoffs should win MVP. Nash winning two MVPs is a joke. He deserves to have won zero MVPs. Dirk Nowitzki or Shaq should have won it last year. How can Nash have two MVPs while Jason Kidd, John Stockton, and Gary Payton had zero. All three have had better seasons than Nash yet they didn’t win a single MVP. The voters, the media, and everyone that voted for Steve Nash are jokers. This has got to be the most ridiculous 2 time MVP winner in ANY sport.

  • Jay and David:
    I suspect you are talking about the most indispensable player or the most irreplacable player. The trade-value point of view is quite intriguing.

    But you are mistaken. Here is why. Nobody says Steve Nash is the most talented player. If you just look at guards, he is not even in the top five (Kobe, LeBron, Dwayne, Kidd and Vince) talentwise.

    He won back to back awards (my opinion is of course he doesn’t deserve) because people who voted for him believe he is more valuable to his team than his competitors are to their respective teams. Nothing more.

  • David Dawson

    Qbit: Your saying that Nash:
    “is not in the top five in guards (Kobe, LeBron, Dwayne, Kidd and Vince) talentwise”.
    I would argue that he is in the top 3 or even 2 when it come to point Guards (Kidd, Nash, Chauncey others) remember he has led the league in assist per game for the past 2 yrs, he seems like he is on the top of point guards to me.
    Qbit deserve maybe to strong of a word, I believe Nash and so many other worthy MVP candidates deserve to get the reward the question is, who may seem to deserve it more. Nash arguably has made a strong case that he is as important to his team then any other candidate & maybe even more, problem is it is all subjective.

    HP:Marion’s 21pts 11 rbs & 1 assist, is close to Dirk’s 26 pts 9 rbs & 2 assist.
    Jason Terry for Dallas his pts is 17 per game (2nd only to Dirk) 3 assist 2 rbs is somewhat close to Nash’s 18 pts 10 assist & 4 rbs
    Your Josh Howard’s numbers 15pts 6 rbs 1 assist
    is comparable to Diaw’s 13 pts 6 rbs & 6 assist
    (by the way did you know that Josh who has been in the league for 3 years, has only played for Dallas & last year avg 12 pts 6 rbs & 1 assist, which is better then Diaw who has also been in the league for 3 years but was in Atlanta last year & avg 4 pts 2 rbs & 2 assist, I wonder why Diaw did better in Phoneix then in Atlanta? hmmm)
    Raja bell for Phoneix 14 pts 3 rbs & 2 assist, to Stackhouse’s 13pts 2rbs & 2 assist,
    Barbosa’s 13 pts 2 rbs & 2 assist seems close to
    M Daniels 10pts, 3rbs & 2 assist
    Dampier had 5 pts 7 rbs a game to Kurt Thomas’s 8 pts 7 rbs a game (Dampier played all 82 games for Dallas, Kurt played only 53 for the Suns and is still not playing in the playoffs)
    by the way all the players on the Suns is having career highs including Marion hmmm I wonder y? (for Marion not by much but still career highs), only Tim & Kurt Thomas are the exception, and by the way besides Marion & Barbosa everyone else who has played significant minutes for the Suns was not a Sun last year.
    So your argument about Dallas not having the same talent as the Suns according to the facts is not truly precise. Perhaps your asking why don’t I include Tim Thomas who is having a good playoff series for the Suns, ok lets look at his numbers in the regular season 10 pts 4 rbs & .07 assist, lets compare with Devin Harris 10 pts 3 rbs & 2 assist; Van Horn 8 pts 3 rbs & .07 assist, by the way Tim Thomas played only 29 games comparing to Devin’s 56 & Van Horns 53 games.
    Lebron was amazing this year, but again your comparison to Lebron not having a supportive roll is questionable,
    Ilgaskus 15 pts 7 rbs 1.2 assist, Larry hughes 15 pts 4 rbs & 3 assist( in 31 games), Ronald Murray 11 pts 2 rbs & 2 assist, Drew Gooden 10 pts 8 rbs .07, D Marshall 9 pts 6rbs & .07 assist,
    If you add Lebron’s & Igalskus numbers together their points is 46 to Nash & Marion’s 39 & their rbs 14 to 15, & assist 11 to 7 respectively, those numbers don’t seem to unequal to me, By the way before Nash went to the Suns in 2003 they won only 33 games (far from a playoff berth) last year Nash comes not only did they reach the playoffs they were the top team in the league & by the way that isn’t a hypothetical scenario that is a fact.
    As for Billups & the Pistons, since they won the NBA championship in 2003, it is about time they won 60 games, with a team that has been together for at least 3 (Rasheed being the only one there for 3 yrs, the rest have been there for at least 4 yrs)and winning a championship, not taking anything away from Billups or any of the other MVP honourees but they had time to get better Nash has only had a chance to accomplish what he did in 2 yrs with the Suns & with again 7 different personal, although I must admit acquiring Rasheed Wallace and winning the championship that year was an amazing feat.
    I agree that Stockton, Kidd & Payton were arguably robbed of MVP honours, however your assesment of them having better seasons then Nash again is questionable, for instance as great as Kidd is, he never avg more then 10 assist and Payton never avg more then 9 assist a game Nash did, Stockton never avg more then 17 pts a game Nash has, that is the facts and thats why it is not ridicoulous for Nash to be MVP this year and possibly last year as well.


  • David Dawson

    HP: I guess we were wrong, the Suns did win the series after all, I guess Nash’s 9 assist & 13 pts helped in the win. Actually adding Nash’s assist & points production together 13 pts plus 9 assist (9 assist times 2 points each =18) equals 31 points, which is the amount of points the Suns won by. Everyone on the Suns obviously made this win possible however Diaw 21pts & Nash both of them leading the Suns with 9 assist each, Diaw MIP & Nash MVP.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    Nash all the way!
    He makes stuff happen out there on the court…it’s not all about scoring..he shares the ball…makes the shots. he doesn’t think he’s all that…he plays the game for what it is.

    His defense has improved over the years…plus..no1 is perfect…most likely your not..just like myself…the point is, is that there is always room to improve…he works harder everytime he goes out there out on that court…he puts his heart into it…defense and offense r both sides…so what if his offense is better than the defense…

    he loves that game.

    and yes i do play basketball…our team undefeated for 4 seasons…i know how this game is meant to be played…and nash follows just about all of them.

    so…nash deserved last year’s MVP, as he does deserve this year’s….
    he’s number 1 for it..and he’d be the 9th person to get MVP two yrs in a row..if he gets it
    he’d hav my vote


  • Vanessa Casalegno

    Oh, and whoever “KOBE” was…the suns beat the lakers so get over it!
    that will show you how much heart they have.

    plus, kobe is too cocky..and yes i do hate him…he plays a good game, but never deserves MVP…and he’s just too cocky for his own good.

  • reggie von woic

    I’m not a sporty person, so don’t complain when i say that the first i heard of Nash was in the NBA 2004 PS2 game. The guy’s pretty good there on the Mavericks, apparently he plays just as well in real life.

  • @David: you also need to consider six turnovers he had. I would suggest to take the assist to turnover ratio instead of no of assists. It is quite possible that some of the turnovers didn’t lead to Lakers’s points but overall in your simple formula it would work.

    @Vanessa: It is just not a simple matter of Nash’s off is better than his def. That way it is always true for every ball player one way or the other. His off is way better than his def. Frankly Nash’s def is atrocious.
    I am not saying Kobe should be the MVP. And Kobe being cocky is no disqualification. You might want to hate him but the relevant question is would you vote for him based on basketball merits?

  • David Dawson

    Qbit: That is the problem with assist to turnover ratio, unless they have a system to verify how many of those turnovers he made resulted in a Lakers capitalizaton of those turnovers, it becomes a questionalbe number for him or anyother players assist to turnover ratio.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    @ Q-bit
    i agree with you, but see kobe is a good basketball player and no one is going to lie about it. (no i don’t really hate him…he’s just not my type of player i guess) His scoring abilities are outrageous, but he never gives a chance for his teamates to grow, as we all saw in that last game against the suns. once he got out of his game, his teammates weren’t able to back him up, partially being his fault and just the simple pressure of the game.
    yes turnovers are a factor in this game for nash, but what can you do? can’t be perfect.
    he got MVP and, to me, he deserves it.

    my next choice would b lebron james for MVP, ya his offense needs a bit of work…but heck, he’s only 21! is he really the next MJ?

  • @David:
    If you consider the entire regular season (82 games) the assist to turnover ratio is a fairly good measure. It has to be over large sample otherwise it wouldn’t make sense.

    @Vanessa: If I want to make an analysis why the Lakers lost, it would be simple–Kobe never tried to instill confidence in his teammates during the regular season. You just cannot ask them to produce when the going gets tough–for one they are not used to and secondly they just didn’t have the experience.

    Turnovers are not the only issue with Nash–his major drawback is that he cannot guard anybody. There is a reason why Phoenix after all their success during Nash’s first season almost ovehauled their entire roster bringing in defensive specialists.

    They won’t be able to get past Clippers this time. However next season with everyone healthy it would be an entirely different story.

  • Kobe has had the best season of any player, stats wise only LeBron beats him.

    He is the only reason the Lakers are(were) in the playoffs this year.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    the suns played well last night…exactly why they won.
    it could go either way with both teams….the clippers have gassel and brand and others…suns have nash, thomas, barbosa, diaw, bell and others.
    it’s a matter of who wants it more, and who plays their game better. whatever happens, it’s gonna be a good semi-final round

  • @Vanessa: Frankly I don’t see the Suns going past Clippers with their nonexisting front court.

    Of course I picked the Lakers to win too. :-)) I was hoping for a possible Clippers-Lakers series. How could you not root for something that could only happen once in a lifetime?

  • David Dawson

    Qbit:I’m still not bought on the assist to turnover ratio format, I strongly believe even over a 82 game season, it still isn’t a proper or the best way of assessing assist to a true turnover that caused the team (player)that turned over the ball a point (basket) as a result of the turnover. They should devise a better formula for it.

  • @David: Yes I sort of agree with you. I also noticed a fallacy in my argument.

    I don’t think anybody has done an analysis of what fraction of turnovers lead to opposition points. It might be a good idea to do the study but it’s an impractical proposition.

    I have an alternative.

    Here is my new suggestion. I think the data as to how many points have been scored of TEAM turnovers is available. Take the Phoenix Suns and now do the following over an entire season.

    1. Total number of points scored of TEAM turnovers :call it A.
    2. Total number of TEAM turnovers: call it B
    3. Points scored per team turnover: C=A/B
    4. Total number of turnovers by NASH = D
    5. Nash’s contribution to opp points(sensibly speaking): D*C=E
    6. Total number of points from Nash’s assists (you gotta be careful because you have to consider both 2 and 3 pointers) assuming it’s available = F
    7. Net indirect contribution of Steve Nash (in total points)= F-E.
    8. Total number of games played = G
    9. Thus the net indirectly contributed points per game
    = (F-E)/G.

    The above is definitely a better measure than the assist to turnover ratio and captures the spirit of assist/ turnover in a more scientific way. I don’t have a name for it but I am taking suggestions 🙂

    Anyways–I will think more about it. The one I suggested looks Ok but I guess one can figure out a polished version involving more parameters. If I have time I will try–the only danger is I might be falling in John Hollinger’s shoes. I don’t rely on numbers much–frankly.

    Numbers hide more than they show.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    @ Qbit
    well, as you see, you were wrong about the lakers…so maybe you will be about the clippers and maybe not. i would like to see the suns win tonight’s game…but it’s all a matter of how they play the game.
    i just see the suns being one step ahead of the clippers.
    let’s just see what happens….

  • David Dawson

    Qbit:interesting formula for the assit to turnover ratio, perhaps just like how the NBA tracks a players other totals e.g. pts, assist, steals etc, maybe they can track points caused by a players turnover.

  • @David:
    It can be done. I am sure. But i don’t know if they do it. The good folks at 82games might be helpful.

    What I said as impractical was to go back to the games already played and track it down for every single player.

  • David Dawson

    Qbit: remember this “@Vanessa: Frankly I don’t see the Suns going past Clippers with their nonexisting front court.”

    You did say you were wrong about the Lakers too, I guess the Suns are proving a point, after seeing them play against a bigger clippers line up, with 2 proven big men in the middle & still beat the Clippers, I can’t be to quick to 2nd guess the Suns anymore, although Dallas still has a deeper bench, but with Barbosa, Tim Thomas, House & possibly Kurt Thomas back, it maybe a real tough series to decide a winner, but Dallas still looks a little stronger, although they tied in the regular season 2-2, just like the Clippers for the Suns.

  • NBA is fan-tas-tic 🙂

    Wondering where is Vanessa.

    I will be rooting for Phoenix because they sent my LA teams packing and I hate that clown Mark Cuban.

    You are right, Dallas got a deeper bench. Also who’s going to stop Dirk?

    Dallas in 6.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    sorry I haven’t commented in a bit!

    yes…the suns are one of those teams you can just never turn your back on.
    they tied their record for 3’s in a game last night. 15!!!

    they might even get kurt thomas to come back in, giving the Suns some more chances at getting O/D rebounds…and blocks and shots.

    the suns may have a leg up on Dallas just b/c Nash knows how they play…but hey…everything can change.

    the Suns are capable of going all the way…as we know, I want them to…

    i see it being miami v.s. suns in the finals.

    but dallas will be a great match…they took out a #1 seed. it’ll be a good series!

    and i agree with you Qbit…NBA IS FANTASTIC!!

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    oh..and i think marion or bell will be gaurding dirk.
    bell gaurded kobe and did a pretty good job at it…but i think marion would be better based on his physical level…

  • Dirk is a tough match up… if the suns can figure out a way to slow him down, it should be pretty even.

    Or else.. they can just let Dirk go for his numbers and stop everyone else.

    Putting Marion on Dirk for extensive periods will just wear him out–it’s very clear when marion clicks in off, the suns run smoothly – Bell can do a good job on Dirk — he can just stay on him like Bowen, playing bear hug def.

    I am worried about the officiating .. looks like Mark Cuban has got into the heads of the officials.

    Anyways am rooting for Suns.

    I am tired of Pistons and I don’t think Flip Saunders is doing a good job in fourth quarters when the game is tight. I will favor Heat to be in the finals.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    what a game, huh!?

    that showed the ability of the suns a lot!
    usually, they struggle after they’re down by 8+ but they did a spectacular job!

    dallas did good too…but the suns just had a good advantage…

    nash, you have to admit Qbit, played great. those 10points he made at the end. the 16 assists, almost tieing his record of 17!
    diaw had a great game too…


  • Diaw’s nanosecond miracle ranks next to Derek Fisher’s femtosecond one against the Spurs (if you remember).

    I am now worried that Bell will not be available for game 2 and who knows for how long.

    I never said I don’t like Nash-I’v always been a HUGE fan of him–but as I said before I don’t think he’s MVP.

    The Suns can survive with multiple sub par games from Nash–look at the Clippers series.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    ya i hope that raja bell can come back…
    he’s a great asset to the team.
    it was weird how he just collasped in the game…then later to find out what happened.

    miami has found a way into the pistons, too.

    So, what do you guys think will happen in tomorrow’s game?

    oh…it was just said that for sure raja bell will be out for the next game..dang…
    what a bad omen!
    well, they can hopefully pull it off…they did wen he got suspended!

  • Dallas wins.

  • David Dawson

    If Josh Howard plays (even if he’s coming off the bench) Dallas will win if he isn’t playing, then the Suns may go up 2-0.
    By the way all those who takes a pass on Nash being worthy of the MVP, you are actually joining his fan club indirectly by doing what he does best(Pass),Nike Just do it, Lol!

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    @David Dawson

    you have a great point.
    I have a good feeling that this game may be in the sun’s favor.
    all suns are fired up from last game! so, using that and what nash and others have notice about dallas, this game could easily go to them. 50% ability and 50% mental = basketball!

    don’t we just love this game!?!!?!?

    GO SUNS!!

  • Dalls won.

    Nash had only one field goal in the second half !!
    (scratches head)

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    ya…the suns had a nice lead…but once the mavs begin to make baskets and the crowd starts booing for the suns…it puts pressure on the suns..making them throw up stupid shots…
    ohwell…we win some, and we lose some.

    dirk had a good game

    i never realized, until this game, what a quick release eddie house has! wow! it’s like get it>shoot!

    ya nash should hav shot the ball…more..

    barbosa’s foul after they made that 3 wasn’t a good idea..it got everyone out of that flow…

    well…next game…is…sunday.
    miami vs detriot tomorrow

  • @David: you were write on money. JH made all the difference.

    @Vanessa: Taking one field goal attempt in the entire second half is just inexcusable. Nash’s lack of aggressiveness really hurt them on the off end because Barbosa couldn’t hit anything.

    But it was a good game nonetheless.

    If Bell doesn’t play again, Suns are going home.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    i totally agre with you Q-bit.

    Nash was making the 3’s he was putting up…and most of the shots he was taking…i just can’t imagine why he wouldn’t shoot the ball until the last couple of seconds.

    thomas had a pretty good game.
    but at least the next two games are at phoenix…
    the suns usually “click” more when they have their home court.
    so if they can come up 3-1…they have some “room,” we’ll say…for the game in dallas…and then the next game being in phoenix…but you never know.

    so much for a sprained ankle for josh howard!
    he was making incredible shots coming off that!
    he had a great game.

  • Correction # 97: should be “right on money” 🙂 Blame it on Sat morning after a wild Fri night.

    I think if Bell doesn’t play, it’s going to be a split. One game you can probably get away w/o him (sort of), but a series.. no way.

    The starters are loggin too many minutes–that’s the price you pay when you don’t develop a bench. And if they don’t find their legs end of the game you really cannot blame them.

    D’ Antoni’s major blunder is not to have the right back ups even for very limited minutes.

    Bench is going to make the difference in this series. Although I want the Suns to win, I don’t see how they can.

    Remember, the Suns are here not because they are superior to Lakers and Clippers. Ok perhaps to Lakers but not to Clippers. They are here because they got good breaks. The Lakers simply gave away that series. And Mike Dunleavy as usual had no clue about his substitutions.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    See I don’t see the Clippers being superior to the Suns, nor do I see it the other way.
    They each have a different style of game.

    The Clipper’s is just more dominate because they are able to get the ball down low, (with a better chance they’ll make it based on height) and get that high percentage shots, where as the suns’ style is shooting that jumper since everyone on the court is able to shoot. (hense the lower percentage shot)

    I wouldn’t call that #7 game a break, they brought their A game…that’s for sure.

    YEAH! MIAMI won….that’s good…

  • I don’t agree of course; Clippers are better than the Suns. I didn’t say they are here coz they got a break in game 7. They got their breaks all throughout the series against the Lakers and Clippers.

    For example:

    1. Lakers were 6 secs away to the semifinals when Tim Thomas drained the three to send the game to overtime. Now Lakers had a foul to give !!!!!!!

    2. Likewise Raja Bell’s 3 sent the game (against the Clips) to overtime. Clips had a foul to give too !!! and who did you send to guard Bell? Daniel Ewing — Gosh !!! If that’s not a break I have no idea what is.

    3. Dunleavy screwed up badly; in one game he rested Brand — the Suns got away; then in another he rested Sam Cassell in the 4th and played Livingston — that’s insanity.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    #3 is just stupidity. the suns’ used it to their advantage as any team would have.

    tim thomas and raja bell’s 3’s just went in when they needed it…i don’t consider that being called a break. they stepped up, took the shot, and it went it. ofcourse, thomas’ 3 was more planted and set the bell’s…but still…i’d consider a break being home team advantage–with fouls and other things.

    plus, the whole foul to give thing was the team’s stupidity. the suns’ are capable of turning a game around…just what they did in those 2 games.

    anyway, the suns’ are coming on in awhile…and i’m really wondering if nash is going to actually take more than 1 shot in the 2nd half!!! LOL
    hopefully raja bell is up and running, and hopefully barbosa will not miss so many open opportunities.

  • Bell probably won’t play this series. MRI showed a tear and I don’t think that’s going to heal soon.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    that 2nd half of the game…was terrible for the suns….well mostly the 3rd quarter….stupid turnovers…gave dallas the lead, shut-down the crowd, and gave the mavs confidence.

    that was just a weird game…

  • I don’t think it was just a weird game. Give credit to Dallas–they contested every shot and their transition def which took away the offensive explosiveness of the Suns.

    I thought, the Suns just stopped running and when they tried they didn’t have a clue. Right now, with their thinner than the thinnest bench, they have to get balanced performances from everyone who shows up. Anything less, they are looking for another defeat in the next game.

    I think it has been pretty much clear, Dallas is a superior team. Admittedly they got good breaks in the last minute calls against the Spurs, but they showed they are more than capable of holding onto their own which is why they are going to win the current series. Now they are backed by the confidence to move into another gear when required.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    ya i agree.
    but it was weird b/c here the suns are having a nice, comfortable lead…by 11 point…give or take the made shot by dallas and the suns’ made point…and all of a sudden…it just went BAM! and downhill we go…it was just weird i guess

    they say raja bell will come back in game 5

    tim thomas was quite funny though i thought…he walked right through those guys. but like he said, he wanted to give them the message “if u beat us this game, we’ll try our best to make it as hard for you as we can.” (most likely same for if the suns did win) like he said, they aren’t going anywhere until it’s officially over.

    well…miami is winning.

  • I have clarified my earlier comment, added some more meat and posted it in my blog because I don’t like to put long comments here. If you want, you can check it out there.

    You said” it just went BAM!

    Why are you surprised ? Basketball, in a loose way is a game of runs.. what appears to be a comfortable lead can become a reasonable deficit in about 4/5 minutes, even less.

    Miami won today’s game. Detroit will probably win game 5 to make it 3-2 but look for Miami wrapping it up in game 6.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    i don’t know if i’m so much surprised as in wonder…like their confidence level…you could LITERALLY just see it drop in a matter of a couple shot made…
    like i said it was weird…idk

    miami is going on strong….the way that maimi is playin now, im not even sure they need a game 6!
    wade’s crazy 3 was amazing!

  • David Dawson

    Whatz up all, game 2 indeed was interesting, however in game 3 I have to question how D’antoni used the bench. For instance Diop for Dallas played over 20 minutes in the game, why wasn’t Brian Grant or Kurt Thomas sent out there to Box out & cover Diop, if D’antoni had done that, that would have freed up Diaw, Marion & Tim Thomas to rotate on Nowitzki & to rest 1 of the 3 intermittingly while Van Horn was on the bench. The fact that Tim Thomas fouled out around 38 minutes in the game shows that D’antoni wasn’t matching the big men properly, hopefully tonight with or without Bell, D’antoni will try this stratedgy.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    i’m just commenting now about nash’s way of taking dirk’s shirt and literally pulling it, and then he is able to take the charge. scroing another point by diaw…
    i just found that funny, yet amazing that the ref didn’t see that in the beginning.

  • The incident prompted Doug Collins to say this : “Steve Nash got away with murder” :-))

    Bottom line for today’s blowout: The RAJA FACTOR

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    yeah i caught that! the getting away with murder.

    raja bell played amazingly…and now that howard may be hurt is a plus for the suns…

    was dirk off or what?! wow
    the suns’ 3’s were pretty good..they brought a great game…

    and it was just weird seeing K. Thomas out again!!!
    nice to see him there though.

  • Dirk just had a bad shooting night.. if I were Avery, I wldn’t be worried at all.

    I am sure u love the word weird 🙂 I was surprised to see Kurt out there.. but may be it’s a good idea to keep him ready just in case.

    BTW David, Diop is not a big factor; what’s more imp is to have a solid coverage on Dirk; that matters. If Raja plays, it frees up Marion to make life difficult for the german.

    I am still not happy with the way Suns played.. they blasted for a period of 7 mins covering end 3rd and begin 4th, but besides that, they were not the Suns I know.

    I still feel, there’s too much dribbling and they are taking too many shots at the end of the shot clock–that’s simply NOT their style.

    One way to go about in this series, is to go after Dirk. Get him out on the perimeter , so that you can free lanes to the basket, he’s never a shot blocker–if he’s inside, drive to the hoop, get him into foul trouble.

    Penetrate all the time– and everytime–you cannot win a 7 game series by jump shots alone–got to go to the hoop–spread the floor, I know it’s easier said than done, but if you cannot spread the floor with the shooters you have, it’s a shame. Spreading the floor not only opens up someone on the three point line, it stops clogging the paint and chances of lay ups increases exponentially.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    actually i don’t use weird unless it’s called for..ya idk

    anyway…i’d have to agree with the way the suns are shooting when there is like 2seconds left on the shot clock…they’re the ones that shoot it in like 19!

    nash is able to go down that lane and dish it off or make that layup….
    he’s capable of spreading it…

    i wonder if miami will take out the pistons!!!!
    hopefully they play their game. they’ll have awhile to rest if they win it here.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    okay….that mavs played good…but wow….what a TOTAL HOME TEAM ADVANTAGE…the refs called everything on the suns…nothing on the mavs…

    dirk was good…

  • The game turned in Mavs’ favor after double technicals were called on the Suns — that basically killed the Suns.

    Dirk was simply too good for the Suns tonight–well it happens.

    Mavs played real good but I am really disappointed the way Suns played in the last 4 minutes — at one point the lead was down 9, and Nash simply wasted away couple of consecutive possesions — unpardonable at that juncture.

    D’ Antoni cannot avoid responsibility either–he shldv called a time out once the lead was single digit — and preach COMPOSURE.

  • David Dawson

    Besides Nowitzki’s crazy numbers & Howard, Stackhouse & Terry doing their original supportive play Diop was the 5th leading scorer, 2nd leader in boards and the leader in blocks. I’ll say it again, if you need to give the 3 big men rest on the Suns, Tim T., Diaw & Marion, put either Kurt Thomas or Grant in for a combine 6 minutes, to be a body on Diop & to help the other 3 big men for the Suns get extra rest & again to intermitingly cover Nowitzki. Diop may have had only 7 pts, which helps no matter how you look at it, but those 9 rbs could have help turn the game around. Kurt & Grant are good rebounders & basiclly play the same type of game as Diop, D’antoni should utilize his bench as much as he can, Diop played 29 min, I’m sure at least 6 min with either Grant or Kurt on Diop won’t hurt the Suns.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    i wanna cry….
    how did they lose that lead that they had for most the lead…
    but ohwell
    that’s bball for you
    so…go miami

  • I told you so. But accept it, the Mavs are a better team. I don’t like the Mavs but I saw this coming.

    Go HEAT !

    By the way, I think David made a good point about Grant and Kurt Thomas but I don’t think they would fit into the style and that’s probably the reason D’Antoni never put them on the floor.

  • David Dawson

    Qbit: thats exactly right use Kurt & Grant only on the defensive & rebound portion of the game, oh well to late now.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    well..all i know…is that i know miami is gonna win

    as much as i knew dallas was gonna win….even tho i didnt want them too…there is no way they should beat the heat..miami has stepped up their game

  • David Dawson

    The key to Miami winning (besides Shaq & Wade) will be Posey, Antoine, Haslem & Jayson Williams or any other guard coming of the bench. Posey & Haslem will have the tough duty to try & cover Dirk & Antoine along with Posey at times will have to cover a quick Josh Howard 7 Jason Williams may cover Jason Terry or Daniels. I won’t be surprise if we see more Derek & Shandon Anderson as The Mavs have so much depth. If Miami can to some degree contain Dirk like how The Suns to some degree were able to to so, Miami will most likely win as Miami has a lot of fire power & no one has a solution for Shaq, just ask Detroit.

  • The Mavs have depth and they are much quicker than the Heat. I expect Shaq to play like Shaq for 4 games, and Heat shouldn’t have any problem.

    Posey and Haslem indeed have a tough job to do. The keys to Heat’s strategy should be:
    1. Stop the quicker mavs from penetrating – this is critical, because you don’t want Shaq to play with foul trouble.
    2. Make mavs a jump shooting team (follows from 1).
    3. Ask Toine not to shoot ill advised threes.
    4. Wade must penetrate at all times.
    5. Look for high picks and multiple screen and rolls/pick n rolls.
    6. Iso plays for Wade whenever going gets tough.
    7. Make sure J will gets open looks from the perimeter in order to successfully play inside out.

  • Vanessa Casalegno

    terry had a nice game last night…hmm
    well the mavs did good last night…
    miami needs to get back into their flow…otherwise they’ll lose

  • David Dawson

    Finally a win for Miami, Dallas seems composed & very strong with a lot of depth, it is going to take a lot of depth & playoff experience from Shaq & Payton to really put Miami over the hump so the team can continue to have composure, while being down 2-1.

  • Mavs have thoroughly outplayed the Heat so far despite the ugly win last night. Shaq is obviously not the Shaq that we have become used to, so it boils down to this: unless the Heat shooters start making shots from the perimeter thereby freeing up Shaq from the double teams by stretching the floor this series is not looking good for Heat.

  • David Dawson

    Congradulations fellow Miami & Shaq fans, they came thru Wade taken MVP honours which was expected from the beginning, I sometimes had my doubts because of chemistry issues but thats all behind now. Another ring for Shaq, I wonder how Kobe & Laker land feels, especially Kobe seeing that could have been him instead of Wade having MVP finals honour, which would have been better then any regular season MVP award