Oddly enough, Tipper "Parental Advisory" Gore hinted in her book, Raising PG Kids in an X-Rated Society, that she is something of a Stones fan, particularly "Sympathy for the Devil." Funny thing about Tipper -- she probably increased the flood of dirty lyrics, since as you no doubt know a warning label has become a marketing tool; for a lot of kids, a CD doesn't have street cred without one.
30 -
David
Jan 27, 2004 at 4:01 am
I don't think I've ever met anyone who was into Journey, although I remember this guy in the luxuriousTaipei Hostel who had a live cassette that he enjoyed rather defensively. I heard that he go tuberculosis, incidentally, which may be some sort of poetic justice, or maybe not. In any case, I vaguely remember a general perception that they epitomised the enemy somehow, although actually I'm not sure what they sound like. I do know that the drummer went on to play with Steps Ahead, and he supposedly had some sort of neo-Tony Williams Lifetime type of band, which might be some sort of exculpation, or maybe not.
Bob: like. Bruce: don't. If I try to analze these feelings I start to feel dirty.
Wyclef Jean: no
Bruce Springsteen: no (?)
The Beatles: no (?)
Willie Nelson: no (?)
Journey: yes
Journey was part of a marketing machine in the 80's and I wonder if that is what has drawn some Journey bashing in this thread. To say that their music weren't significant and important for that era is simply wrong.
32 -
Eric Olsen
Jan 27, 2004 at 9:11 am
Hmm, interesting that a video game would be viewed as evidence of cultural relevance - and I'm not saying it isn't.
What would you say Journey's career span was? I mean I know they are still going today, but what was their peak?
I am guessing they were from 1980 until about 1984. Is that about right?
Faithfully was my prom theme and I would have been 5-6 years old when they basically went away. So, I guess Journey is relevant to my little age range, but it would be interesting to see what the perception of high school kids is today. Do they get Journey? Have they heard it? Is it just a select few students who had it handed down from parents/older siblings?
I guess my point is that Journey has been relevant up to this point, but that isn't a perpetual state. It can change at any time by the next wave of kids growing up.
my guess is that most high school kids have never even heard of Journey. heck, they consider music from only 10 years ago to be 'old'.
the changes in Journey throughout their career are kind of amazing...i saw them once before they were totally pop. they were sandwiched in as the second warmup band between Nantucket and Ted Nugent...and they fit right in (and lordy, did Neil Schon have huge hair!)
35 -
JR
Jan 27, 2004 at 11:07 am
Journey was founded by Santana alumni Neal Schon and Gregg Rolie (he's the singer on "Black Magic Woman"). I think the original drummer was Prairie Prince, who ended up with the Tubes. By the time they recorded their first album, released in 1975, they had Aynsley Dunbar on drums. He had been in the Mothers (circa Fillmore East June 1971) and before that the Jeff Beck Group (he played on Truth).
Early Journey was more progressive, melodic hard rock with long solo sections that sound almost like Mahavishnu Orchestra. Look Into The Future is probably the best of their first three albums.
By 1978, management had persuaded them to hire a lead singer, Steve Perry, and head in a more commercial direction. There followed three very successful albums starting with Infinity, which contained the hits "Wheel In the Sky" and "Lights". In 1979 Dunbar was replaced by Steve Smith, he of fusion band Vital Information.
After 1981's Captured live album, Gregg Rolie was replaced by former Babys keyboardist Jonathan Cain. Three more albums beginning with the all-conquering Escape cemented Journey's reputation as schlocky power ballad kings before the band packed it in after 1986's mediocre Raised On Radio.
They reunited in 1996, but have never regained the notoriety they had in the 1980's. At some point Steve Perry left for health reasons and was replaced by Steve Augeri. I haven't heard any of the post-reunion stuff, so I don't know which if any of the recent albums are good.
36 -
Eric Olsen
Jan 27, 2004 at 11:43 am
Thanks for the summary JR, I liked Look Into the Future also of the pre-Steves, and Infinity, when the almost operatic vocals were still fresh and the Wall of Arena Rock production still novel - all downhill from there.
The Steve Augeri led Journey album Arrival wasn't good and wasn't bad. As often happens with new singers replacing well known ones, Augeri didn't try to carve any new territory and it was almost like we heard all of Schon's licks.
Arrival didn't sell very well despite a huge campaign and tour with DVD, DirecTV free concert forcing them to put out their next album, an EP on an independent label: Red 13
Thinking about Journey a bit more; in Britain Journey never had a hit single, and they didn't tour the UK; the only time we ever heard them on the radio was when a late night rock show played one of their heavier numbers, like "Edge of the Blade" from "Frontiers". This meant the only people that knew they existed were rock fans, and we listened to their harder edged songs, and skipped the cheesy ballads.
To most Americans, Journey were those cheesy ballads.
While Journey were at their commercial peak, the British charts were filled with bands like Wham! and Duran Duran, who rock fans hated with a passion.
In some ways, Duran Duran were the British Journey. And both bands ended up playing power ballads.
40 -
duane
Jan 27, 2004 at 4:01 pm
Tim, you say, "In some ways, Duran Duran were the British Journey." Could you elaborate? I think the guys in Journey would be much chagrined to find themselves being categorized with Duran Duran.
41 -
Eric Olsen
Jan 27, 2004 at 4:16 pm
And vice versa. I get the part about becoming known for ballads, but no one ever accused Journey of being "New Romantics" or being funky. I love Duran Duran, however, and am less enthralled with Journey.
42 -
duane
Jan 27, 2004 at 4:22 pm
OK, that's fine. We like what we like. I think of Journey as being a group of talented musicians who sold out, and didn't live up to their potential, although they got ridiculously rich in the process. I look at Duran Duran as being a group of pretty boys who ended up with a few catchy tunes and massive airplay, including MTV, thereby far exceeding anyone's estimate of their potential, and getting ridiculously rich in the process.
43 -
Dwaine AKA Scooter AKA D.J.
Jan 27, 2004 at 4:52 pm
I agree Duane, I listen to rap, the president listens to... Well, who gives a fuck what Bush listens to. He's an asshole. But I agree, I agree.
There are no real musical comparisons between Duran Duran and Journey, it's just that they both ended up occupying the same ecological niche and sold records to a similar demographic.
On the other hand, perhaps a closer comparison might be to say that Journey were the American Genesis, in that they were talented musicans who decided to sell out completely.
45 -
duane
Jan 27, 2004 at 5:18 pm
Yeah, I like the Journey/Genesis comparison better. And the interesting thing, if I can believe the stories, is that most of the members of both bands did not like selling out, but did anyway, with Steve Perry and Phil Collins leading their respective bands into unbridled commercialism. I think with Journey, it was Steve Perry ascending, but with Genesis, it was Tony Banks descending.
46 -
Eric Olsen
Jan 27, 2004 at 5:55 pm
Collins always had a strong musical, prog, jazzy side, a la Brand X, but I think what happened was he did that first solo album of pop tunes purely on a lark, as basically a good-natured joke, and sonofabitch, it sold like Genesis never had - it was a whole new world! So Collins went back to the boys and said, "if we do this, this and this, I can bring us a whole new audience," and so they did.
47 -
duane
Jan 27, 2004 at 6:05 pm
Brand X was great. Collins claimed that he wanted this as a side project to get his musical ya yas out. I thought that was swell. Imagine, feeling musically inhibited in a band like Genesis. But years later I heard that he preferred R&B over prog rock and jazz. Maybe he changed, but it sounded curiously inconsistent with what I had thought about him. I would prefer to think that Tony Banks, the musical leader of the good ole days, was not that happy about the pop flavor that characterizes newer Genesis. Having Banks do that kind of stuff is like having a Maserati to drive in bumper to bumper traffic.
48 -
JR
Jan 27, 2004 at 8:35 pm
Duane: I think the guys in Journey would be much chagrined to find themselves being categorized with Duran Duran.
Maybe. Though I once heard Neal Schon doing an interview on the radio and the DJ was talking to him between the songs on their regular playlist. So they play one of Duran Duran's hits and Schon says, "I like that chick at the end." The title escapes me right now, but from that comment you'll no doubt know which one I'm talking about.
While we are on this Journey stuff and Hagar was mentioned in another thread. Did any of you guys like/ever hear HSAS with Sammy (H)agar, Neal (S)chon, (A)aronson and (S)hrieve?
I liked that one-off effort, but it didn't produce any offspring.
50 -
Mark Brandt
Feb 18, 2004 at 12:43 am
As a HS student only last year I can say that most of the school had heard of Journey.
Why? It was one of the louder teachers favorite bands. Some kids never really listened to them, some listened to them because the teacher did so they wanted to see what the fuss was about, there were the kids who liked the novelty of an '80's era band (those kids liked Rod Stewart too), or there were people like me who found Journey to be cheesy and completely irrelevant musically and lyrically.
51 -
Eric Olsen
Feb 18, 2004 at 8:30 am
Though I agree with your lyrical assessment entirely, Journey had some musical merit and some songs that have endured (I've heard "Open Arms" on American Idol more than once). They wre best when they rocked hardest, as I have mentioned more than once.
I always find it fascinating what subsequent generations pick up on from the past.
These slime make use of open proxies, either left open by incompetantly clueless sysdamins, or instructed to do so by equally incompetantly clueless management.
The Register has an interview with one of these turds (who insisted on anonymity). I wonder if any enterprising bloggers can track this **** down?
Normally I don't go all out negative, but man Journey really sucks. It's just total flatulent, corporate, pandering, and so not rock (thanks Bob A Booey for inspiring the "so not" part).
56 -
Eric Olsen
Feb 03, 2005 at 9:56 am
I have mixed feelings about Journey, seeing them as neither nearly as good as their fans not nearly as bad as their many detractors do. But I agree they are the epitome of culturally irrelevant corporate rock, but they were really good at that.
i got to see Journey when they were still a 'real' rock band (whatever the hell that means).
they opened for Ted Nugent and were really good. neal schon had this freakish head of hair that he whipped back and forth during the guitar solos.
this was in the era of "Wheel In The Sky".
58 -
Eric Olsen
Feb 03, 2005 at 11:20 am
that's when I saw them as well - at first the integration of an operatic-quality voice, hard rock and continents-of-sound production technique was startling and innovative, but it soon became just another cliche
Talk about comment spammers resurrecting undead threads... (And I still think Duran Duran sucked far more than Journey)
60 -
SFC SKI
Feb 03, 2005 at 5:03 pm
Shame when good band go commercial schlock.
HSAS was best known for an unnecessary cover version of Procol Harum's "Whiter Shade of pale" A song I loathe, but I later heard a live album by PH, and found out they were actually a rockier, bluesier band in concert, shame to find it out 30 years too late.
"Captured" is really the onnly Journey album one should own, if one must. It shows the band when they were a band, not Steve Perry's back-up musicians, it actually has some great songs, and some ripping guitar work, and shows Perry can really sing, but still reins him in a bit (well, a little). After Greg Rolie left there was no soul/blues counterbalance to the crap, and it showed. Don't get me wrong, Journey was such a hugely popular wussy girl band that no rocker would admit he had ever listened to them, but their first 3 albums were guilty pleasure in morethan a few milk crates, stashed behind the Van Halen and Yes.
The excellent Randy Jackson is not a member of Michael Jackson's family, go back to your Linkin PArk albums, kiddie.
61 -
Eric Olsen
Feb 03, 2005 at 5:49 pm
I liked early Journey at the time, as well
62 -
Marty Thau
Feb 03, 2005 at 6:23 pm
Steve Earle. Good stuff. How about LONDON CALLING by the Clash? And DARK SIDE OF THE MOON, too.
Article comments
26 - Eric Olsen
I don't hear GW headbanging to the Ozz - I believe that was a standard PR invite.
27 - Craig Lyndall
Tipper "Parental Advisory" Gore is not allowed to be a music fan.
28 - Eric Olsen
Clinton is a Dead fan as well - there are several in high places, so to speak.
29 - Rodney Welch
Oddly enough, Tipper "Parental Advisory" Gore hinted in her book, Raising PG Kids in an X-Rated Society, that she is something of a Stones fan, particularly "Sympathy for the Devil." Funny thing about Tipper -- she probably increased the flood of dirty lyrics, since as you no doubt know a warning label has become a marketing tool; for a lot of kids, a CD doesn't have street cred without one.
30 - David
I don't think I've ever met anyone who was into Journey, although I remember this guy in the luxuriousTaipei Hostel who had a live cassette that he enjoyed rather defensively. I heard that he go tuberculosis, incidentally, which may be some sort of poetic justice, or maybe not. In any case, I vaguely remember a general perception that they epitomised the enemy somehow, although actually I'm not sure what they sound like. I do know that the drummer went on to play with Steps Ahead, and he supposedly had some sort of neo-Tony Williams Lifetime type of band, which might be some sort of exculpation, or maybe not.
Bob: like. Bruce: don't. If I try to analze these feelings I start to feel dirty.
31 - TDavid
Video games made about/inspired by artists:
Wyclef Jean: no
Bruce Springsteen: no (?)
The Beatles: no (?)
Willie Nelson: no (?)
Journey: yes
Journey was part of a marketing machine in the 80's and I wonder if that is what has drawn some Journey bashing in this thread. To say that their music weren't significant and important for that era is simply wrong.
32 - Eric Olsen
Hmm, interesting that a video game would be viewed as evidence of cultural relevance - and I'm not saying it isn't.
33 - Craig Lyndall
What would you say Journey's career span was? I mean I know they are still going today, but what was their peak?
I am guessing they were from 1980 until about 1984. Is that about right?
Faithfully was my prom theme and I would have been 5-6 years old when they basically went away. So, I guess Journey is relevant to my little age range, but it would be interesting to see what the perception of high school kids is today. Do they get Journey? Have they heard it? Is it just a select few students who had it handed down from parents/older siblings?
I guess my point is that Journey has been relevant up to this point, but that isn't a perpetual state. It can change at any time by the next wave of kids growing up.
34 - Mark Saleski
my guess is that most high school kids have never even heard of Journey. heck, they consider music from only 10 years ago to be 'old'.
the changes in Journey throughout their career are kind of amazing...i saw them once before they were totally pop. they were sandwiched in as the second warmup band between Nantucket and Ted Nugent...and they fit right in (and lordy, did Neil Schon have huge hair!)
35 - JR
Journey was founded by Santana alumni Neal Schon and Gregg Rolie (he's the singer on "Black Magic Woman"). I think the original drummer was Prairie Prince, who ended up with the Tubes. By the time they recorded their first album, released in 1975, they had Aynsley Dunbar on drums. He had been in the Mothers (circa Fillmore East June 1971) and before that the Jeff Beck Group (he played on Truth).
Early Journey was more progressive, melodic hard rock with long solo sections that sound almost like Mahavishnu Orchestra. Look Into The Future is probably the best of their first three albums.
By 1978, management had persuaded them to hire a lead singer, Steve Perry, and head in a more commercial direction. There followed three very successful albums starting with Infinity, which contained the hits "Wheel In the Sky" and "Lights". In 1979 Dunbar was replaced by Steve Smith, he of fusion band Vital Information.
After 1981's Captured live album, Gregg Rolie was replaced by former Babys keyboardist Jonathan Cain. Three more albums beginning with the all-conquering Escape cemented Journey's reputation as schlocky power ballad kings before the band packed it in after 1986's mediocre Raised On Radio.
They reunited in 1996, but have never regained the notoriety they had in the 1980's. At some point Steve Perry left for health reasons and was replaced by Steve Augeri. I haven't heard any of the post-reunion stuff, so I don't know which if any of the recent albums are good.
36 - Eric Olsen
Thanks for the summary JR, I liked Look Into the Future also of the pre-Steves, and Infinity, when the almost operatic vocals were still fresh and the Wall of Arena Rock production still novel - all downhill from there.
37 - Josh S
Man, if you like goofy ballads...so what? At least he didn't say Faster Pussycat.
38 - TDavid
The Steve Augeri led Journey album Arrival wasn't good and wasn't bad. As often happens with new singers replacing well known ones, Augeri didn't try to carve any new territory and it was almost like we heard all of Schon's licks.
Arrival didn't sell very well despite a huge campaign and tour with DVD, DirecTV free concert forcing them to put out their next album, an EP on an independent label: Red 13
39 - Tim Hall
Thinking about Journey a bit more; in Britain Journey never had a hit single, and they didn't tour the UK; the only time we ever heard them on the radio was when a late night rock show played one of their heavier numbers, like "Edge of the Blade" from "Frontiers". This meant the only people that knew they existed were rock fans, and we listened to their harder edged songs, and skipped the cheesy ballads.
To most Americans, Journey were those cheesy ballads.
While Journey were at their commercial peak, the British charts were filled with bands like Wham! and Duran Duran, who rock fans hated with a passion.
In some ways, Duran Duran were the British Journey. And both bands ended up playing power ballads.
40 - duane
Tim, you say, "In some ways, Duran Duran were the British Journey." Could you elaborate? I think the guys in Journey would be much chagrined to find themselves being categorized with Duran Duran.
41 - Eric Olsen
And vice versa. I get the part about becoming known for ballads, but no one ever accused Journey of being "New Romantics" or being funky. I love Duran Duran, however, and am less enthralled with Journey.
42 - duane
OK, that's fine. We like what we like. I think of Journey as being a group of talented musicians who sold out, and didn't live up to their potential, although they got ridiculously rich in the process. I look at Duran Duran as being a group of pretty boys who ended up with a few catchy tunes and massive airplay, including MTV, thereby far exceeding anyone's estimate of their potential, and getting ridiculously rich in the process.
43 - Dwaine AKA Scooter AKA D.J.
I agree Duane, I listen to rap, the president listens to... Well, who gives a fuck what Bush listens to. He's an asshole. But I agree, I agree.
44 - Tim Hall
There are no real musical comparisons between Duran Duran and Journey, it's just that they both ended up occupying the same ecological niche and sold records to a similar demographic.
On the other hand, perhaps a closer comparison might be to say that Journey were the American Genesis, in that they were talented musicans who decided to sell out completely.
45 - duane
Yeah, I like the Journey/Genesis comparison better. And the interesting thing, if I can believe the stories, is that most of the members of both bands did not like selling out, but did anyway, with Steve Perry and Phil Collins leading their respective bands into unbridled commercialism. I think with Journey, it was Steve Perry ascending, but with Genesis, it was Tony Banks descending.
46 - Eric Olsen
Collins always had a strong musical, prog, jazzy side, a la Brand X, but I think what happened was he did that first solo album of pop tunes purely on a lark, as basically a good-natured joke, and sonofabitch, it sold like Genesis never had - it was a whole new world! So Collins went back to the boys and said, "if we do this, this and this, I can bring us a whole new audience," and so they did.
47 - duane
Brand X was great. Collins claimed that he wanted this as a side project to get his musical ya yas out. I thought that was swell. Imagine, feeling musically inhibited in a band like Genesis. But years later I heard that he preferred R&B over prog rock and jazz. Maybe he changed, but it sounded curiously inconsistent with what I had thought about him. I would prefer to think that Tony Banks, the musical leader of the good ole days, was not that happy about the pop flavor that characterizes newer Genesis. Having Banks do that kind of stuff is like having a Maserati to drive in bumper to bumper traffic.
48 - JR
Duane: I think the guys in Journey would be much chagrined to find themselves being categorized with Duran Duran.
Maybe. Though I once heard Neal Schon doing an interview on the radio and the DJ was talking to him between the songs on their regular playlist. So they play one of Duran Duran's hits and Schon says, "I like that chick at the end." The title escapes me right now, but from that comment you'll no doubt know which one I'm talking about.
Wait, "Hungry Like a Wolf"?
49 - TDavid
While we are on this Journey stuff and Hagar was mentioned in another thread. Did any of you guys like/ever hear HSAS with Sammy (H)agar, Neal (S)chon, (A)aronson and (S)hrieve?
I liked that one-off effort, but it didn't produce any offspring.
50 - Mark Brandt
As a HS student only last year I can say that most of the school had heard of Journey.
Why? It was one of the louder teachers favorite bands. Some kids never really listened to them, some listened to them because the teacher did so they wanted to see what the fuss was about, there were the kids who liked the novelty of an '80's era band (those kids liked Rod Stewart too), or there were people like me who found Journey to be cheesy and completely irrelevant musically and lyrically.
51 - Eric Olsen
Though I agree with your lyrical assessment entirely, Journey had some musical merit and some songs that have endured (I've heard "Open Arms" on American Idol more than once). They wre best when they rocked hardest, as I have mentioned more than once.
I always find it fascinating what subsequent generations pick up on from the past.
52 - Dave Nalle
Could someone block this spammer's IP please?
Dave
53 - Eric Olsen
it's never the same IP, all automated horseshit
54 - Tim Hall
These slime make use of open proxies, either left open by incompetantly clueless sysdamins, or instructed to do so by equally incompetantly clueless management.
The Register has an interview with one of these turds (who insisted on anonymity). I wonder if any enterprising bloggers can track this **** down?
55 - wally bangs
Normally I don't go all out negative, but man Journey really sucks. It's just total flatulent, corporate, pandering, and so not rock (thanks Bob A Booey for inspiring the "so not" part).
56 - Eric Olsen
I have mixed feelings about Journey, seeing them as neither nearly as good as their fans not nearly as bad as their many detractors do. But I agree they are the epitome of culturally irrelevant corporate rock, but they were really good at that.
57 - Mark Saleski
i got to see Journey when they were still a 'real' rock band (whatever the hell that means).
they opened for Ted Nugent and were really good. neal schon had this freakish head of hair that he whipped back and forth during the guitar solos.
this was in the era of "Wheel In The Sky".
58 - Eric Olsen
that's when I saw them as well - at first the integration of an operatic-quality voice, hard rock and continents-of-sound production technique was startling and innovative, but it soon became just another cliche
59 - Tim Hall
Talk about comment spammers resurrecting undead threads... (And I still think Duran Duran sucked far more than Journey)
60 - SFC SKI
Shame when good band go commercial schlock.
HSAS was best known for an unnecessary cover version of Procol Harum's "Whiter Shade of pale" A song I loathe, but I later heard a live album by PH, and found out they were actually a rockier, bluesier band in concert, shame to find it out 30 years too late.
"Captured" is really the onnly Journey album one should own, if one must. It shows the band when they were a band, not Steve Perry's back-up musicians, it actually has some great songs, and some ripping guitar work, and shows Perry can really sing, but still reins him in a bit (well, a little). After Greg Rolie left there was no soul/blues counterbalance to the crap, and it showed. Don't get me wrong, Journey was such a hugely popular wussy girl band that no rocker would admit he had ever listened to them, but their first 3 albums were guilty pleasure in morethan a few milk crates, stashed behind the Van Halen and Yes.
The excellent Randy Jackson is not a member of Michael Jackson's family, go back to your Linkin PArk albums, kiddie.
61 - Eric Olsen
I liked early Journey at the time, as well
62 - Marty Thau
Steve Earle. Good stuff. How about LONDON CALLING by the Clash? And DARK SIDE OF THE MOON, too.
63 - Mike Kole
Had "London Calling" in the player today. After spending last week in Andalucia, I had to hear "Spanish Bombs" again.