Thirty...freaking...years.
Screw the end of the decade shtick. It either is or isn't truly the end of the decade and honestly, I don't really care...mostly because I've heard so much great music in the past ten years (Or is it nine years? Oh, so confusing) that there's just no way I'd be able to create a short list. Even if I went through the exercise, I'd leave something out and feel bad and/or embarrassed about it. No, I'll save the energy for something else, something that started a couple of decades before the 2000's.…
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26 - Mark
some of the 8bitters are a trip though
27 - zingzing
stm: "You're projecting again zing. Pot, meet kettle."
of course you can see the irony in that. now that we have that out of the way...
"I don't see how you can understand the situation if you weren't there in that era."
that's an argument that would negate the study of history to begin with. and it's been proven time and time again to be false.
while i certainly wasn't in london in 76 or 77, i've made a bit of a study of it. and the crassness of both malcolm mclaren and bernie rhodes leaves me with a sour, manipulated taste in my mouth. (don't get me wrong... i find these two to be some of the most interesting participants in the whole thing--and mclaren was a damn genius, even musically.)
"Much of The Clash's music IS about politics, whether you like it or not. It's a well-known fact and the band's members have spoken at length about it."
i'm not totally questioning the political nature of their music... but i do question the political ends they were trying to get to. it's all a bit muddled and simplistic, although occasionally they do get specific.
manchester's situation was even more dire than london's at the time, and manchester's punk scene didn't feature any of the politics of the london scene. actually, other than clash, crass and a few sex pistols songs, i'm having trouble thinking of too many highly political songs that came out of the british punk scene. i'm sure they're out there, but it was a much smaller part of the scene than people seem to want to recall. the american punk scene (especially past the late-70s) got extremely political, much to its detriment.
"but beyond the music in regards to The Clash, what you might have got out of in America and what they got out of it on the other side of the pond might be two very different things given the social chaos of the time."
there is a certain truth to this... american punk was more social rather than political, and more localized rather than national. american punk barely touched certain portions of the country in the mid to late 70s--only the coasts and cleveland had substantial scenes--and it took years to filter into the various underground scenes around the country. but it england, it was so big a phenomenon that it flamed out before it had even really began (and was luckily replaced by a superior genre).
"They were really listening to the message. I suspect in the US at the time, there wasn't any need for young white kids who might have embraced punk to listen to the message."
well, that's both true and untrue. for the us in general, not only did the kids not care, they'd never even heard of it. but in the local scenes, the social realities at the time (especially in nyc and cleveland, although it's also true for the west coast to a certain degree,) were very similar to those found in britain. unemployment, squatting, loads of drugs, dangerous cities, etc, etc.
in the lower east side of nyc, for example, one could actually rent an apt for about $100/month. that apartment might not even have running water, it was probably infested with bedbugs and drug dealers, and it would behoove one to carry around a switchblade, but you could work a few days of the month and spend the rest of the time playing music. a lovely state that couldn't last.
"It's not the politics of punk, though. It's the politics of The Clash. They had a message, and at the time young Britons were buying the message."
hrm. maybe that's where this has come from... i went back and reread the original message that got me started and realized that i had reacted to your description of the politics in england at the time, but had skipped "So that's in part where the fury and anger in the sound of The Clash and some other bands of the time comes from."
although i find some of the clash's politics to be contrived, i was going on about punk's dubious political "origins" rather than the clash specifically... i find that punk, generally, isn't a product of the politics, but rather a manipulator of those politics, when it decided to engage them. often, however, it was a good excuse to play some music fast and loud, and was thrilling rather than confrontational for any political end.
in the end, punk's politics mattered more within the music industry, where they had real lasting effects. and only crass really lived up to their politics in any meaningful way.
as television personalities said:
They play their records very loud
And pogo in the bedroom
In front of the mirror
But only when their mums gone out
They pay 5 pence fares on the buses
And they never use toothpaste
But they got two fifty to go and see The Clash.
Tonight! [widely misheard as "the clash are nice."]
Here they come
la la la la la la
la la la la la la
The part time punks!
28 - Mark Edward Manning
Zingzing, I never claimed to stop listening to music in (or since) the mid '90s. Unless what you meant to say is that I stopped caring about contemporary music from the mid '90s on, in which case you're correct.
29 - zingzing
yeah, i meant new music.
i'd have to say this decade was the best since at least the 80s, and far superior to the 90s and 70s (although the 70s did make a push at the end). but it's all just arbitrary numbers anyway.
30 - Dr Dreadful
Blue Oyster Cult influenced punk?!?!?
Huh.
I have to agree with zing about this decade producing some superb music (as well as a lot of diabolical stuff, just like any other decade). I think he and I might disagree about what constitutes this 'great' new music, though!
I know I'm late to this conversation, but that BOC claim of Dave's piqued my curiosity. How, exactly...?
I was entering my spotty teens when London Calling came out. My brother got it on tape for his birthday and played it constantly until it wore out. Or broke. Or got twisted in the player or something. No idea if he still has it or listens to it. Great album, even though The Clash weren't really my cup of tea - I liked other punk bands better.
31 - zingzing
"Blue Oyster Cult influenced punk?!?!"
well, sandy pearlman, boc's producer, did produce the clash's second album. he didn't do a bad job, but there was a certain lack of great songwriting on the album.
as for their influence, there may be some there, but it's pretty minimal. to point them out specifically as an influence is a bit of a stretch.
32 - Dr Dreadful
Well, that's a relief. I thought you were about to make the case that if Pearlman hadn't insisted on the cowbell punk rock might never have arisen.
33 - Kate Shea Kennon
there a lot of comments here. Can't add anything except that meeting Joe Strummer is a highlight of my life.
34 - Dave Nalle
They were really listening to the message. I suspect in the US at the time, there wasn't any need for young white kids who might have embraced punk to listen to the message.
I did a punk music and politics show on college radio in 1979 and 1980, and the rebelliousness of punk music certainly fed into the anger which many of us felt at the Carter administration. Political punks didn't get much coverage in the late 70s because they were rebelling against the establishment left, and by 1984 they were likely voting for Reagan.
Dave
35 - STM
Except, Dave, the whole country - and its place in the world - wasn't falling down around its ears.
Maybe that's the diff.
Even white discontent in the UK was about rights largely, which makes it in some ways quite similar to the civil rights era in the US. Unemployment and no prospects and being held down by certain sections of society will do that to you.
Whatever the case, it's good music.
Still not dated.
36 - zingzing
dave: "Political punks didn't get much coverage in the late 70s because they were rebelling against the establishment left, and by 1984 they were likely voting for Reagan."
ha! even the beach boys couldn't get away with that! (and i love the beach boys, but i hate love... mike love.) that's some remarkable revisionism.
37 - mason vaughn
The Clash was a great band who were ahead of thier time and I think I'll leave it at that!
38 - Greg Barbrick
As the biggest Clash fan on the planet, I guess I need to weigh in here. Does anyone remember how shocking it was when the old farts at Rolling Stone named London Calling the best album of the Eighties?
Nice looking back piece. This idea of music in the "clouds" is one that I will never be able to get behind either. Thankfully, I did not get rid of all my LPs when CDs came in, and was just going back through them recently with my son.
The artwork and packaging of the LP format is such an integral part of my favorite records. Outside of the over-priced vinyl reissues, this is gone forever.
And I think the world has lost something very valuable. The CD packaging has been a sad remnant of this. But with downloads on your ipod, you do not get even that.
Give me my two-record set of London Calling with cover art intact, thank you very much!
Greg
39 - Mark Saleski
Does anyone remember how shocking it was when the old farts at Rolling Stone named London Calling the best album of the Eighties?
they had a thing for The Clash. i seem to remember them loving Sandinista as well.
Outside of the over-priced vinyl reissues, this is gone forever.
vinyl has had a resurgence in recent years. i've done my part! ;-)
40 - zingzing
sandinista has been unfairly maligned for a long time. it seems to split critics and listeners in two. i was a fan of the clash for a good dozen years before i even bought it, but once i did, it totally reaffirmed and deepened my love of the band. the creativity on display is mind-boggling.
41 - STM
I gave away my valuable Radio Birdman album Radios Appear along with all my other vinyl, including a double album of The Allman Brothers (among a stack of others), Wipe The Windows, Check The Oil, Dollar Gas (I remember it for two great tracks and the great cover art!).
I had both versions of Radios Appear: the original Aussie version and the overseas release picked up in the UK. One was worth a lot and the other wasn't, according to the recipient of my little treasure trove. I suspect it was the original Aussie version that was worth a big quid.
How was I to know vinyl would make a comeback???
On Blue Oyster Cult:
The title of Radios Appear comes from a Blue Oyster Cult track, as BOC were allegedly one of Birdman's main influences.
42 - Greg Barbrick
Zing
I am with you on Sandinista. First off, the band took a hit on royalties to sell the triple LP set for the price of a double. So I always considered sides 5 & 6 to be gravy anyway.
Anyone familiar with the record knows that there are some undisputed Clash classics there. "Somebody Got Murdered," and "The Magnificent Seven" are just two of my faves.
But where Sandinista really gets fun is in those "extra" tracks on LP number 3. How about "Silicone On Sapphire," or the Mikey Dread "Living In Fame." Yes, I know they are remixes, and awesome ones at that, if you ask me.
That 15 day run they did in NYC, during which most of Sandinista was recorded was the band at the peak of their powers, I believe.
-Greg