The Prime Time Sublime Orchestra aka Paul Minotto and his unindicted co-conspirators play/execute modern avant garde orchestral "music" with an emphasis on humor. I put music in scare quotes for the same reasons I would if I were writing about John Lennon's infamous "Revolution 9." They've created some interesting soundscapes, but a lot of this lacks the elements of melody, rhythm and harmony.
In theory, that's not good. Yet this stuff rather intrigues me anyway. There's a lot of thought going on in what kind of bits of found commercials and tv preachers and whatnot get put in and where. There's some strong force of personality involved in this.
Also, there's considerably more actual music to this than "Revolution 9." There are lots of pieces of melody and harmony mixed into this. They tend to get abandoned quickly to more seemingly random interjections, but there are definitely some significantly musical shards. You might even consider them as actual hooks. At least a couple of these tracks might reasonably qualify as "songs."
One particularly bad creative decision here was mechanized vocals. There are numerous vocal parts, but they are all performed by computer. That's unfortunate. Yeah, it's all avant garde, but it ruins them.
These CGI vocals are a gimmick that just doesn't work. CGI foolishness just isn't going to have the quality that even a mediocre singer could give. A human voice amidst all the electronica could really help put this over. It seems as if he's afraid to simply sing a perfectly good song like "Hannibal's BBQ." You don't have to be completely avant all the time.
Out of all this mess, the opening "Curb Your God" has the most compositional cohesion. For practical consumption, this and "Hannibal's BBQ" make listenable good texture in an iPod mix. I'm not sure how much repeated listenings will get you from the rest of this mess, though.
Note that for an Amazon link I have included a different Prime Time Sublime album because they simply don't have the new album available through Amazon. If this album sounds interesting to you, you could ORDER IT HERE. I would actually, however, recommend this ( ) as a better album anyway.
Article comments
1 - Leoniceno
I downloaded Pomp Vindaloo from Amazon, and it strikes me as very clever.
2 - Al Barger
That's not even particularly the most interesting song there. If you liked that track, you should probably definitely get that ( ) album, which I see for as little as a buck at Amazon. Definitely worth a listen.
3 - Mike
One of the things I like about avant-garde music is that it doesn't assume "music" HAS to have melody, harmony and rhythm...that's the conventional music, but technically "music" just means "organized sound."
That said, Al, you make this disc sound pretty damned good. I notice it's out of print...did you recently buy it used, or is it one you've had for a while and listened to repeatedly?
4 - Al Barger
The ( ) review was contemporary to the album release two years ago.
What does "organized sounds" mean, though? If they are organized end to end, you're talking about melody. Organized on top of one another means harmony.
A lot of the interest in this to me comes not from abandoning traditional musical values, but from rethinking them. There are melodies, but they're not mostly simple ABACAB structured vocal tunes. There's structure and pattern- but in different ways than you might expect after a lifetime of listening to American pop music.
I intended to make it sound pretty good. If you're open to the avant garde idea, this is pretty interesting stuff.
5 - Mark Saleski
...traditional musical values
this should be "traditional wester musical values".
melody, harmony and rhythm are sufficient, but not necessary, components of music.
6 - Al Barger
Ideas of how melody, rhythm and harmony work can be stretched and pulled and rethought. But if you simply abandon them, then you seem to have nothing left but random noises. The sound of, say, traffic on the street corner or jackhammers at a construction site is not music.
7 - Mark Saleski
ah, and there we will forever disagree.
i've written about it before here.
8 - Al Barger
Mark, your invocation in your post of Captain Beefheart certainly is NOT a good example of the abandonment of musical values. TMR is full of melody, rhythm and harmony. That your co-worker didn't know how to hear them doesn't mean that they aren't there.
What else would you offer as specific examples of good "music" that doesn't have melody, rhythm or harmony?
9 - JR
The funny thing is, I could buy into Al's whole melody/rhythm/harmony standard, but I'd still come out with a vastly different idea of what constitutes good music. For instance, based on melody, rhythm and harmony, Black Sabbath made far better music than Elvis Costello.
10 - Al Barger
Ok, fine JR. Go ahead, poke the bear.
What musical values would lead someone to think that Black Sabbath was even vaguely in a league with Elvis, though?
11 - Bob A. Booey
“Bear”
Glossary Definition: A gay man that has a lot of body and/or facial hair. Bears are often considered to have "cuddly" bodies.
From Ramon Johnson, Your Guide to Gay Life. http://gaylife.about.com/cs/gaylifeglossary/g/bear.htm
Anyone want to guess what "poking the bear" is defined as?
That is all.
12 - JR
Uh... melody, rhythm and harmony.
Didn't I just say that?
13 - Al Barger
Yes JR, but you'll need to be rather more specific. What particular song by Black Sabbath, for example, has a better melody than, for starters, "Alison"?
You may wish to make such comparisons on THIS THREAD.
14 - Mark Saleski
our invocation in your post of Captain Beefheart certainly is NOT a good example of the abandonment of musical values
my point is that it's all in the perception.
that's why 'organized sound' does not necessary imply the 'big 3' or harmony, melody or rhythm.
15 - Al Barger
It is NOT all just a matter of perception. You could make musical notation of "Moonlight on Vermont" and show the patterns of melody, the mathematical basis of it. It is objectively true that there are strong melodies on TMR. Whether they are to your individual taste is another matter, but there they are.
Again, what would be some outstanding examples of "music" that do NOT have melody, rhythm or harmony?
16 - Mark Saleski
i posted some examples on the other thread.
and sorry al, it is a matter of perception.
17 - the primeTime sublime Community Orchestra
Listen with your own ears and make up your own mind at www.primeTimesublime.com
Mention "More Things.com" or "Blog Critics" and get a free CD plus a "Curb Your God" T-shirt with any CD purchase directly from us.
Sublimely Yours,
the primeTime sublime Community Orchestra
18 - Al Barger
Thank you Paul. Your offer shows that you are not only a gentleman and a scholar, but generous as well.
19 - Mike
But I think music IS a matter of perception, Al. You can recognize the patterns in musical notation is not the same thing as music. It is, as Frank Zappa put it, a recipe for music; if you can read it and perceive music from the recipe, then the music is in your perception. I, personally, don't read music, so although I can see patterns in the little dots, there's no music per se--in my perception.
On the other hand, you can hear a random burst of noises, and your mind naturally organizes them into patterns of its own design.
It's like the tree-falling-in-the-woods dilemma. Does sound exist if no one is there to here it? I say no: there's a vibration but no sound until there's an ear and/or brain to perceive it.
Perhaps there's no music until you perceive sound as music.