To save heavy metal, Metallica must finally just fade away into their glorious past.
There are two distinct factions in the very divided Metallica fan base that exists today. On the one side resides those of the long haired, ripped jeans, and classic concert t-shirt wearing ilk. They are a beer drinking, joint smoking, devil-horn raising, tribe of metal fans of yore who swear by the band's early thrash metal opuses and recoil at the group's current devolution into a sellout, pop-metal band. They scorn their once beloved group for making music for the masses, while abandoning the tastes of their core group of fans who have followed the band since their earliest days, playing dive bars and small downtown venues; when the fan base, along with the money, was small, and the scene was anarchic, grimy, and real.…
Article comments
26 - Mark Saleski
>How could anyone consider the Black album a >progression to "And Justice.."?! You gotta be >f*cking kidding me!!
who said that it was? i don't care that the black album wasn't a progression. in fact, the very idea never crossed my mind. i enjoyed the music...and that's all that matters to me. there are many ways to evaluate music, the technical aspects being one that i don't often give much thought to.
and if you want to start thrownin' down about composition and musicianship, go right ahead. i know all of that stuff, it's just not important to me in a rock context. hell, it's not even all that important to me in other contexts.
27 - Glen Boyd
Beginnings of metal? Two words: Blue Cheer.
-Glen
28 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
who said that it was?
Jordan did...That's who.
Mark,
We've already been down that road and your listening skills are still alien to me. But, with all that being said, just because you like the material doesn't mean I shouldn't have a problem with said music. Kinda like what Tony has stated... Metallica had an opportunity to make a huge statement with their release after "And Justice..." and the statement they chose was watered down & weak. It really has nothing to do with technical musicianship. It has everything with losing their passion for gut wrenching, Mind provoking Thrash!! So spare me with this "Open-minded" bullshit...
29 - JC Mosquito
Actually, if Blue Cheer is the beginning of metal, then the end of metal is..... Beatallica. Metal is a caricature of rock, and I don't mean that disrespectfully - it's rock 'n' roll played in its most extreme - loudest fastest, rudest, most thoughtful/least thoughtful - whatever. So when a caricature (Beatallica) of a caricature (Metallica) comes along, and no one recognizes it for what it is, it's over - it's served its purpose.
30 - Tony
There can definately be an arguement for Blue Cheer but I still say Black Sabbath. Iommi and his tuned down guitar defined the sound of metal. They were the first to play predominately in drop d and the first to visit "evil" subject matter. If you listen to albums like Sabbath Blood Sabbth and Masters of Reality you can easily see where experimental metal began and you can even here some of the roots of thrash on Vol. 4.
"Metallica's Lars Ulrich, who, along with bandmate James Hetfield inducted Black Sabbath into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2006, said "Black Sabbath is and always will be synonymous with heavy metal",[108]while Hetfield said "Sabbath got me started on all that evil-sounding shit, and it's stuck with me. Tony Iommi is the king of the heavy riff."[109] Ex-Guns N' Roses guitarist Slash said of the Paranoid album: "There's just something about that whole record that, when you're a kid and you're turned onto it, it's like a whole different world. It just opens up your mind to another dimension...Paranoid is the whole Sabbath experience; very indicative of what Sabbath meant at the time. Tony's playing style " doesn’t matter whether it's off 'Paranoid' or if it's off 'Heaven and Hell' " it's very distinctive."[109] Anthrax guitarist Scott Ian said "I always get the question in every interview I do, 'What are your top five metal albums?' I make it easy for myself and always say the first five Sabbath albums."[109] Lamb of God's Chris Adler said "If anybody who plays heavy metal says that they weren't influenced by Black Sabbath's music, then I think that they're lying to you. I think all heavy metal music was, in some way, influenced by what Black Sabbath did." -- wikipedia.org
31 - Mark Saleski
...and the statement they chose was watered down & weak. It really has nothing to do with technical musicianship. It has everything with losing their passion for gut wrenching, Mind provoking Thrash!! So spare me with this "Open-minded" bullshit...
oh geezuz, whatever.
happy new year.
are you still wearing the exact same pair of pants and shirt you wore 20 years ago?
32 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
Thanks Mark...HAPPY NEW YEAR
Unfortunately, I can't get 501's for the same price that I used to & Maiden hasn't re-released their Aces High silk screened on a grey [possibly light grey but that could be only because I wore it to death and don't remember what the actual color was when I bought it] t-shirt, so, no...Dammit, I am not:)
Lamb of God's Chris Adler said "If anybody who plays heavy metal says that they weren't influenced by Black Sabbath's music, then I think that they're lying to you.
Well, then I must be a freakin liar because I was influenced by DIO, Iron Maiden & Yngwie Malmsteen.IMHO,these guys were the beginning of "Heavy" Metal.
Possibly, because I was real young in the early 80's that I always thought of Black Sabbath as a classic rock band.
33 - Tony
Well if you were influenced by Dio and Maiden then you were influenced by Sabbath because they laid the groundwork for everything those two entities put out.
I mean Dio was even in Sabbath, and arguably created his best work while with them.
So basically you might not "know" you were influenced by Sabbath but if any metal band at all inspired you, you were influenced by Sabbath, at the very least second hand, because Sabbath started it all.
34 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
If you wanna debate the whole "what came first" argument that this type of conversation usually ends up being then, Ronnie James Dio was performing music earlier than Black Sabbath and it could be argued that he laid the groundwork for them. MAIDEN was never influenced or inspired by Black Sabbath, if I recall correctly, they were influenced by bands like UFO & Montrose. Yngwie was completely inspired by classical.
Now, I wasn't taking anything away from Black Sabbath as I think they deserve a ton of credit for their pioneering attributes especially with some of the jazz influences that are highlighted on a number of their albums but one could say that RUSH was just as responsible for Heavy Metal as well. Just consider some of the bands that I grew up listening to like Watchtower,Queensryche,Fates Warning,Dream Theater,Atheist. RUSH laid down those killer complex time signatures & imho, were responsible for the concept album.
35 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
Edit: I was just saying that I don't believe that I was inspired by Black Sabbath...So does that make me a liar?? BTW,Lamb of God sucks!
36 - Tony
No, I don't think not being inspired by Sabbath makes you a "liar." But judging by the majority of the bands you named I would say you are more into prog rock than metal. Silent Lucidity isn't exactly what you would call heavy music (although I am a fan of the band). Most of that stuff -- Dream Theater especially -- is more influenced by Floyd and that family of bands; the Alan Parsons Project and what not.
37 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
But judging by the majority of the bands you named I would say you are more into prog rock than metal.
What?! How does one respond to that without being insulting? It sounds to me like you have a lot less listening experience with Metal than you claim.
Watchtower was the first band to fuse Metal with Jazz inspired complex time signatures. They pioneered Progressive Metal and are far from Rock! Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime was a milestone for metal by incorporating more melody with similar time changes in Heavy Metal BUT it was Dream Theater who catapulted Progressive Metal into what the masses perceive as "Progressive". IMHO,(hindsight is 20/20) They took what was intriguing about Prog Rock(The compositions) along with some killer Jazz inspired Melody & Timing and fused it with some blistering & dramatic Metal. FYI, Fates Warning hardly ever gets the credit they deserve for covering new territory in metal & I think they were one of DT's biggest influences even if they don't name them as one. Perfect Symmetry was, for me, a much more interesting album than Operation... and while it wasn't an obvious concept album it maintained a continuous philosophical message about time,politics & internal conflict with reward. IMHO, Perfect Symmetry was one of the best Prog Metal releases and closed out the 80's with a bang. Parallels was a damn good album as well but it wasn't as heavy.
See, I get bored very easy with straight ahead Metal. I like bands that take risks but have the musicianship to pull it off. To say I like Prog Rock more than Metal is fairly inaccurate because even though there are some Prog Rock bands I love, a lot of it sounds outdated to me & because of my inspiration from the best Death Metal band in the world (DEATH) and the limits that Chuck Shuldiner pushed with his brilliant insight,creativity & killer musicianship. PLUS, I f*cking love speed & brutality mixed with a technical mind f*ck, especially when they use the right mix of equipment & tonality. AND, that was what Mr. Shuldiner had on Symbolic though I wish they could have re-enlisted the brilliant fretboard work of Andy LaRoche. Individual Thought Patterns was a freaking technical masterpiece!
38 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
*Oops* my point: There is no f*cking way in Hell that I like Prog rock more than Metal!! You need to check out some of this stuff:
Atheist Unquestionable Presence
Watchtower Control & Resistance
Cynic Focus
DEATH Individual Thought Patterns
Spiral Architect Sceptic's Universe
Neuraxis Trilateral Progression
Blotted Science The Machinations of Dementia
Gorod Leading Vision
39 - Tony
I actually didn't mean that as a knock. I just disagree with your classification for some of those bands.
There is quite a bit or prog rock or progressive metal or whatever you want to call it, that I like. We were talking about influences and those badns definately have their roots in prog rock.'
I'm not into the whole "I only like metal" thing. Listening to only one genre of music is ridiculous. I listen to everything from Miles Davis and the Beatles to Pantera and Tribe Called Quest. If my reference sounded insulting I didn't mean it that way.
40 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
If my reference sounded insulting I didn't mean it that way.
I guess I kinda took it that way, I apologize. I don't just listen to Metal thus where my definition of Progressive metal may be quite different. I also listen to Jazz but I am mostly into the Fusion(except for Vince Guaraldi) bands like Fragile,Power Job,The Bad Plus,Oysterhead & I love Michael Manring especially his solo album Thonk & his side project Attention Deficit. At War With Self was also pretty good.Some whacked out adventures with Mike Patton(Mr. Bungle,Fantomas,Tomahawk).
I also like Pop Vocal but mainly the greats like Karen Carpenter,Elvis Presley,Roy Orbison,Stevie Wonder. As well as Classical Acoustic(Christopher Parkening).
Let's not forget Classic Rock: The Police, The Cars,Sweet,Queen...Man, that's my problem. I listen to so much music. I guess the only stuff I despise is this new wave of Panzy Rock & Hip-Hop.