Oh, John, you have let your fans down again.
I have debated with others at Blogcritics about the Sex Pistols. Personally I'm a Clash man, preferring a band of musical quality and integrity to the manufactured crap that was the Sex Pistols. To me, the Sex Pistols were all about marketing and getting lucky. Frankly, I wondered if they would even be remembered if Sid hadn't offed himself.
When I wrote my list of annoying overrated bands, I made a point of including the Sex Pistols, which some disagreed with.
Earlier in the month there was much talk about a note — exact author unknown — from someone representing the Sex Pistols saying they would not play at the Rock and Roll Induction. As usual, some say it's a punk move while others said it smelled of marketing and posturing.
Which brings us to the latest comments by John Lydon - formerly Johnny Rotten.
Johnny boy went on the radio show of Steve Jones - the Sex Pistols former guitarist and the one member who seems to be living a DIY lifestyle rather than just talking the talk. While on his show Lydon brought up the topic of spitting and throwing things at the performer.
A Dummies Guide to Spitting and Punks
One of the odder trends to come out of the punk movement was the habit of some fans to spit at singers. A disgusting habit, that. But it's hard to get more punk than to spit gobs at a singer, right?
I just googled "Sex Pistols spit" to see what came up and the first item was this headline: "Sex Pistols spit on Hall of Fame honor." The second Google item was about the awful movie The Filth and the Fury, and a review of it begins this way: "The 25-year hissy fit between Malcolm McLaren and the Sex Pistols continues to rage in Julian Temple’s engaging documentary about everybody’s favorite spitting, puking punk band."
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Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Dave Nalle
I think you missed the context of Lydon's comment about the fans. The Sex Pistols ALWAYS made a point of hating their fans. The despised and derided them from day one. That was part of their charm. They were such absolute dickheads. For them hate was how they expressed themselves.
As for a reunion or a performance at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, there's no way it could happen. They could barely perform when they were young and in practice. There's no way they could bring themselves up to even that level of minimal two-chord viabilitty today.
Dave
2 - A.L. Harper
Scott I have to agree with Dave here. They always made it a point to hate their fans. When I was 16 that was one of the things I thought made them so cool. Too cool to care kind of a thing.
I also agree with you however in that they really sucked. Now I look back on them. I always did prefer the DK.
3 - Vern Halen
No, I don't think it can be said they sucked. They were a "tightly sloppy" li'l rock 'n' roll unit, if you get my meaning. Musically, just listen to that 4 note guitar solo in "God Save the Queen," or that pause & chuckle before the first verse of "Anarchy." Lyrically, there's the disturbing "Bodies" (which ought to be the final word in the prolife/prochoice pair of monologues), or that insane song about going on holiday to Belsen to see the gas chambers. I like the Clash for other reasons, but the Pistols didn't suck - mostly because they didn't care if they did or not.
4 - Scott Butki
Dave and A.L., you're right I did miss that important point. They probably could care less if their fans threw cds at other artists - they are just making a point of insulting their own fan base.
But yes, musically they are quite underwhelming.
5 - Scott Butki
Well, that explains why most media focused articles lately about the Sex Pistols on them selling out by putting their catalogue up for sale by advertisers.
6 - LiamFan
Personally, I've never heard a Pistols song used in an ad, but I've heard numerous Clash tunes used on commercials.
And Joe Strummer himself would disagree with your putting quotes around "original" when describing the Pistols. If it weren't for the Pistols, there would have been no Clash, not to mention any of the "new" punk bands mentioned.
7 - Scott Butki
I just got an email about your comments.
I'll go post this over there:
You may be right that there would not be a Clash without the Pistols but that doesn't change whether the
Clash were more talented, had more integrity or were interested in ideas more than money than the Sex Pistols.
I put "originals" because there were U.S. bands like the Ramones that could be considered precursors to the Pistols.
I lost a lot of respect for the Pistols when they did their reunion tour.
To me comparing the two are like comparing the Beatles with the Monkees... except if the Monkees came first.
:)
8 - LiamFan
Scott, you're younger than I am if I remember correctly. The Pistols came out when I was 19 and Rick was 17. You might feel differently had you been there at the beginning. Hearing 'Anarchy in the UK' for the first time was, quite simply, a life changing experience. In the midst of the musical wasteland that was disco, there was suddenly something exciting and completely different from anything that came before. While the Ramones had what would later be labeled the punk sound, there was no political agenda, and to pretend that the Pistols had no political bent is naive, despite the marketing that surrounded them.
9 - T
Scott, i think the other point you missed is that John and the boys were all about screwing the system for cash. They took EMI, they took A&M, they took their fans money and did nothing in return..that's what it was about. The music was a sideline.
You have to remember music at that time was dominated by Gary Glitter, Bay City Rollers, and other glam rockers who were completely out of touch with the immense poverty that was going on, not to mention the garbage strike that went on for years--that's why john wore trash because that's what he knew, that's what he saw everyday. They should be remembered for the truth that they lived, adn brought to the stage.
Malcolm was the ass who screwed them over with the bullshit marketing and taking more than his share of the dough. The boys were broke at the end of it all.
So, my point is this, if John wants to make some dough then he's got my support. Maybe their music wasn't great but they did us all a favor by bringing back the spirit of music being raw, emotional, and three cords of pure anger.
What we need now is another band like them to rid us of the Gary Glitters of our time and boy there are a million of them----if I ever see any band claiming their punk when they are pop---I will spit in their face and scream Pistol's lyrics as I laugh and walk away...
10 - Vern Halen
Let me throw a tip of the hat to the ORIGINAL original punks - those garage bands of the 60's that really didn't care about fame, fortune or music, because they didn't know any better. All hail the Kingsmen, the Seeds, The Count Five & The 13th Floor Elevators and all those cut from the same cloth - could the Pistols have written something as vulgar as Paul Revere & the Raiders' "Crisco Party?"
11 - Scott Butki
Thanks for all the comments.
---------------
Telling people to have anarchy - yes, that's a message.
Taking the record companies money -yes, that too is a statement.
But I get rubbed the wrong way when they tell their fans how they should act at their concerts. That to me is suggesting submission to rules, not anarchy. That may be because of their weird relationship with their
fans but to me that reeks of hypocrisy - be tough and rebel.. just don't be so tough and rebellious at our concerts that you hurt us..
Ok, nuff said by me on this. I'm headed to bed.
Good nite.
12 - A.L. Harper
Scott -
Who knew this would be such a contentious issue. I didn't know there were that many old punks still hanging around out there.
13 - Sister Ray
I was a teen when the Pistols came out in the 1970s, and my suburban high school peers could not have been less interested. For me, punk rock was something you read about in magazines but never heard on the radio. Bands like Boston were much more popular at school.
I enjoyed some disco and liked the idea of punk, even though I didn't hear much of it, so Blondie was up my alley.
Vern Halen, I hadn't heard of "Crisco Party." Sounds wild.
14 - Scott Butki
A.L., I sort of suspected I was going to hit a nerve on this.
I don't mind people disagreeing with me.
I had my Sex Pistols stage during college orientation when I wrote a t-shirt that said anarchy and said what I most wanted in college was chaos and anarchy.
And then there was a point where I realized that wasn't really a clear path to follow.
Then I went back to fighting the isms - racism, sexism - and started listening to more Clash, U2, Peter Gabriel - and others who were also political but with more of a message about what to do with that anger we all have.
And with that I'm off to what will be my final student teaching class for many months due to some problems I won't go into here publicly.
15 - Barry Stoller
The reunion tour was a big disappointment, a false (possibly desperate) move, but let us remember that Lydon really did the unthinkable back in the day: He broke up the SP right as they stood on the edge of the big time. Who else did that?
And then followed it with PiL, which delivered the goods (at least for a few albums).
He's OK with me.
16 - J. P. Spencer
I have to agree with Vern regarding '60's garage bands. I'd also add the Stooges, the MC5 and the first incarnation of The Modern Lovers to that list.
I have to give Scott credit for stating the obvious too; the Clash were a much better band than the Sex Pistols, but remember that the Clash were one of the exceptions, not the rule. Of all of the bands from the first wave of punk, maybe ten lasted more than 18 months together, and the ones who did radically changed their musical approach in later years. I can think of The Damned, The Clash, Wire, The Ramones, XTC (do their first two records count as punk? hard to say) The Jam and The Fall from those first days. If you wanted to reaaaallly stretch it, you could throw New Order and Elvis Costello in there.
DIY is and was a wonderful thought and a cool approach, but unless there was the underpinning of either adventurous songwriting or instrumental talent, you didn't last. A good example is X-Ray Spex, who had one great album in "Germ Free Adolescents", and that was it.
Even with all of that, I miss it. It helped wash the taste of disco out of my mouth permanently, for which I'll be forever in their debt.
17 - Pete Blackwell
Bad Religion were "good" "current" "punk" 20 years ago.
The Pistols were ok. At least they had the good sense to die quick and painless-like, unlike your beloved Clash. Sure, there's not a $1 million portfolio amongst those guys.
Every time one of those awful lite-rock stations plays "Rock the Casbah" one more unbearable time, they make a nickle. Since that song is undoubtedly playing somewhere on the radio at every moment of every day...well, you do the math.
The most punk quote of all time was said by Lemmy of Hawkwind/Motorhead fame: "We're the kind of band that when we move next door, your lawn dies."
18 - T
To me, punk was an idea-it was a deconstruction of music, tearing away what the pop groups of the day had built. I would say that rap went through the same stripping. People were sick of hearing about things they couldn't relate to. So that's when music becomes real.
As for talent, well that is subjective as it is with any form of art. But I'm all for washing away that which is unrealistic and out of touch.
Mainstream music today blows, but i am all for the internet and the indie bands who are producing the next great wave of music. Maybe this way, the public will tell radio what we want to hear instead of the record companies...anyway I digress
P.S Lemmy rules!
19 - drzej
I remember hearing "Anarchy in the UK" for the first time at age 10 and it was as if someone opened the door and yanked me into the music world by my shirt collar; it was that dramatic.
A similar feeling was hearing "Smells Like Teen Spirit" for the first time at a nightclub and people literally stopped dancing to watch the video, and the DJ even replayed it. You knew something big had just happened.
20 - Scott Butki
I hate "Rock the Casbah."
It figures that my least favorite Clash song was their biggest hit.
21 - Guppusmaximus
I was never a fan of The Sex Pistols either and I agree that The Clash were way more talented, maybe not Punk they way I think of it but I wasn't old enough in the 70's to have a clue.
I think maybe you are a little to harsh on The Sex Pistols but it's nice to read an opinion that isn't sucking the teet of popularity...
Some great Punk bands(That lasted or not):
U.S. Bombs-"The World"
The Showcase Showdown-"Permanent Stains"
Darkbuster-"22 Songs that you'll never want to hear again"
Meat Depressed-"Deface the Nation"
Choking Victim-"Crack Rock Steady"
Rancid-"Rancid[2000]"
Dropkick Murphys-"The Gangs All Here"
22 - Mark Saleski
sorry, but using 'talent' as a factor when comparing punk bands just completely misses the point.
23 - Guppusmaximus
I forgot.... Cock Sparrer
Yeah...Maybe not "Talent" in the sense of Buddy Rich or Yngwie Malmsteen but there were bands that had great Punk sense and could fucking rip R'n'R style. I think the notions that playing punk didn't take any talent are the ones from people who can't play their fucking instruments to begin with... AND if anyone mentions Nirvana as a punk band than you're a bigger fuckwad than Johnny Rotten,er,um...Johnny Lydon ever was!!
24 - Vern Halen
No, I woudn't say Nirvana were punks, but what is the chord riff from "Teen Spirit" except the Kingsmen's chord riff from "Louie Louie" in disguise?
25 - Scott Butki
Don't forget Seven Seconds, Minor Threat and
All/Descendents.
Was just watching the Colbert Report and he worked a Sex Pistols reference into the opening: "Never mind the bollocks this is the Colbert Report" and later used their note to the Hall of Fame as part of his campaign to get some jazz guy inducted.