New Album Releases, March 6, 2007: Ry Cooder, Stooges, Mary Chapin Carpenter

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• 1 - Michael J. West

  Mar 06, 2007 at 3:36 pm

  Of course, the Arcade Fire is arguably the most anticipated album of 2007 and is currently #5 at Amazon, but hey! To each his own.
  
  XOXOX

• 2 - Leslie Bohn

  Mar 06, 2007 at 3:58 pm

  Oh, and it's fabulous. Really cathartic, big-build arrangements of challenging, complicated chamber pop/rock. Inventive and totally not ironic or snotty. As good as the first one at least, which is very good indeed. They are also a blistering, rollicking, glorious spectacle live. Anybody catch them on SNL?

• 3 - Al Barger

  Mar 06, 2007 at 5:33 pm

  I certainly mean no disrespect to this Arcade Fire band. I've never heard them. Indeed, I'm not sure if I've heard OF them, even.
  
  Brother West, perhaps you might slip me a coupla choice mp3s and relieve my ignorance.

• 4 - Lincoln

  Mar 06, 2007 at 5:39 pm

  it will take more than that to relieve your ignorance considering your comments about The Stooges. I'll take the opinion of Alice Cooper and Jack White over yours.

• 5 - JC Mosquito

  Mar 06, 2007 at 5:50 pm

  Arcade Fire on SNL - definitely not you run of the mill pop stars - don't see a lot of women grinding a hurdy gurdy to death, bullhorns moounted on mike stands and live guitar trashing on late night comedy shows anymore.
  
  You don't like the Stooges? Awww..... give 'em a second chance, 'specially those first three bazookas. It's possible to like both the Shaggs and the Stooges at the same time - I figure they were never in competition for gigs at any point in time... actually, that would make a good battle of the bands back in the late '60's / early 70's.

• 6 - Al Barger

  Mar 06, 2007 at 6:10 pm

  Lincoln, Alice Cooper and Jack White are both pretty big names with me. But I'm not going to substitute their judgment for my own. I've owned I think two of the three original albums, and repeated listening says to me that there's nothing substantive there. Even smart, talented people can talk themselves into liking crap sometimes.

• 7 - Leslie Bohn

  Mar 06, 2007 at 7:05 pm

  Al, there have been massive leaks of the Arcade Fire album, which is the talk of the indie rock world. You can also visit salon.com and their fantastic Audiofile column (Thomas Bartlett is an amazing writer) and get the single for free.
  
  And honestly, I have no idea why someone who hasn't heard of the Arcade Fire would be doing a "new albums" column. Shouldn't a prerequisite be that the person follows current pop and rock music?
  
  

• 8 - zingzing

  Mar 06, 2007 at 7:24 pm

  nothing substanstive to the stooges? it's all substance! (well, i'm no big fan of the first album, but that's beside the point.) the stooges kick the pants off any rock band today! "raw power" is the greatest fuckin' rock album ever made!
  
  ("fuckin' rock" is its own genre.)
  
  and al, just go to elbo.ws, type in arcade fire, download "no cars go" and be amazed.

• 9 - Philco Brothers

  Mar 06, 2007 at 10:01 pm

  I like the first Stooges album myself but why bother listening to that crap when I can listen to great composers like Mary Chapin Carpenter or Ry Cooder. Their songs are timeless.

• 10 - JC Mosquito

  Mar 06, 2007 at 11:20 pm

  Interesting........ I would've thought you would've been interested in the Stooges on a historical basis. That first abum was produced by John Cale (he of the Velvet Underground, not JJ Cale, who made a pile o' cash when Clapton did a couple of his tunes). Raw Power had David Bowie behind the console. And the Stooges' bootleg concert Metallic KO is one of the greatest arist vs. audience confrontations ever caught live on tape ("I'd like to thank the person who threw this glass bottle at my head. You nearly killed me, but you missed again. Try again next week!").
  
  As for Cooder & Carpenter - it's possible to like them AND Iggy st the same time. Maybe not if you were all sharing a room or something, though.

• 11 - Sister Ray

  Mar 07, 2007 at 12:10 am

  Iggy, at least, should have some bucks from "Lust For Life" being used in Carnival Cruise commercials.
  
  "The Neon Bible" is also the name of the first novel be John Kennedy Toole of "Confederacy of Dunces" fame.

• 12 - zingzing

  Mar 07, 2007 at 1:54 am

  never heard metallic ko... am intersted... but have you heard 23 minutes over brussels by suicide? the audience actually riots, takes away the mics and ends the concert. fucking great. the singer is up there screaming "give me back my mic!" and the crowd cheers... it's magical.
  
  anybody who doesn't like the stooges needs to... seriously evaluate their priorities.

• 13 - Michael J. West

  Mar 07, 2007 at 8:13 am

  I'll send you a coupla my favorites from the first AF disc, Mr. Barger.

• 14 - JC Mosquito

  Mar 07, 2007 at 9:48 am

  Zinger - you HAVE to track Metallic KO down - Iggy just baits the audience like no one else - some random comments:
  
  "Here's a song I cowrote with my mother, it's called 'I got my c**k in my pocket' - Ah one, two, f**k you pr**ks!"
  
  "Thanks for the egg... waht else ya got - bottles? Light bulbs? What am I bid for a dozen eggs?"
  
  "AAAWWWWW... don' go, laydies & gennel'mun..."
  
  Previously quoted: "I'd like to thank the person who threw this glass bottle at my head. You nearly killed me, but you missed again. Try again next week!".
  
  "Do you want us to do our progammed set and look real slick[?!?] or just lay back and do a 45 minute Louie Louie?" (Iggy's rewrite of the classic has to be heard to be believed).
  
  Actually, Iggy's improvisations of his own material has to be heard to be believed. It's a testament to his standing as the Godfather (maybe grandfather?) of punk rock.
  
  And Mr. B - I saw a review in Rolling Stone years ago for an 8 CD set of every single noise or conversation the Stooges recorded while making Funhouse - about 10 hours worth of CD listening pleasure. Maybe for your birthday if you ask nice.

• 15 - Al Barger

  Mar 07, 2007 at 11:45 am

  JC, if your primary interest is in some ignorant moron trading verbal hostility with an audience, and doing dumb shit like 45 minutes of 'Louie Louie,' then you're certainly welcome to do so. It's a free country.
  
  For my part, however, I'm interested in MUSIC, which doesn't relate to anything you're describing here. Why would I want to waste my consciousness on such ignorant shit when I could be listening to, say, the Who? See, those guys are musicians and composers.
  
  Whereas Iggy seems to be merely an extremely limited performance artist with one dumb line of mindlessly hostile audience-baiting shtick- but no real songs or substantive musical skills or vision.
  
  Oh, that's right. He's got "raw power." Puh-leese.

• 16 - zingzing

  Mar 07, 2007 at 1:20 pm

  actually, iggy played drums in a free jazz outfit before joining the stooges, if i am correct. and he could improvise with the best of them. the stooges were pretty much an improvisatory group for a couple of years before they signed to a label. they CHOSE to go in the direction they went in, and they created the basic template for punk rock. none too shabby i think.
  
  and to say the stooges had no musical talent is totally missing the point. they most certainly did have talent, and they played simply (some of the time) for maximum emotional impact. there are no frills, to be sure, but they didn't want any frills. and you've obviously never heard "1970" if you think there's nothing musical there. that song rivals hendrix for its visceral qualities.
  
  (of course, "raw power" rocks harder than any album has any right to rock, and sounds completely timeless, classic yet STILL confrontational after almost 35 years... and even hendrix's stuff has aged.)
  
  face it al, you just don't like punk rock. but your argument sounds like something rick wakeman would have said in 1977. you're the dinosaur. one day you will see beyond your argument that simplicity means a lack of talent, when i'd argue it's minimalism they aspire to, in spite of their talent to do more if they choose. (and they did choose to do more plenty of the time, and the only reason you don't know that is because you haven't really listened to the albums.)

• 17 - Al Barger

  Mar 07, 2007 at 1:39 pm

  Zing, "to say the stooges had no musical talent is totally missing the point." No, that's exactly my point. If it's not in the music, I ain't interested in the shtick, or the "raw power."
  
  I have mixed feelings about "punk rock," at least in the narrowest sense of the term. On the one hand, I do appreciate the idea of the 70s punk rock movement as a kind of rock and roll Protestant reformation. It was in some ways a needed corrective to some of the dissipation of spirit and focus by the likes of Rick Wakeman.
  
  On the other hand, punk rockers made a point of pride out of their incompetence. If you could actually playing your damned instruments, that alone would make you suspect. That's stupid, and extremely self-limiting. It's kinda DUMB that Elvis Costello legitimately and understandably felt the need to hold back several years into his career before putting out "New Lace Sleeves" because he feared that the sophistication of the composition would undermine his punk/new wave credibility.
  
  Which is not to say that I'm prejudiced against simplicity in style and performance. I listen to Little Richard all the time. I'm all about Elvis Presley's Sun Records, and Scotty Moore certainly was not a fance picker. Likewise Hank Sr and Sun era Johnny Cash, and a whole bunch of blues and folk records.
  
  In short, simple can be just fine, if you've actually got something musical to say and are competent at saying it. But merely being loud and belligerent does not impress me. That's not in fact "raw power," but merely worthless stupid hostility. If I wanted that kind of dumb animal-level crap, I'd get some guys to start a fight club and we could beat each other up out in the yard. But that's nothing to do with music, is it?

• 18 - JC Mosquito

  Mar 07, 2007 at 1:39 pm

  The Who are without a doubt musicians and comopsers of the higest order, and Townsend spent countless hours & interviews trying to explain the band's relationship to its audience. Of course, a classical music fan might be of the opinion that the Who are limited performance artists whose guitar trashing antics were mindlessly hostile audience baiting schtick disguised as pretensious performance art, mocking the very audience that put them there.
  
  Of course, I would never say that about the Who, nor about the Stooges' & Metallic KO. I think MKO is about a lot of things, but basically it's about the relationship between the audience & the artist when all the facade is ripped away (another line from the show - "You paid five bucks to see me and I'm making ten thousand!") Iggy confronts the audience on their worship of their idols, thier heroes and their legends - why see a guitar sacrificed for the sake of rock and roll when you could see a human sacrifice? Why are the Stooges up on the stage anyways, they of they limited skills and abilities? Well, why not? Or why not you, the audience?
  
  I know - that's all about the nature of art or maybe performance art, and mostly those conversations chase tails - maybe for another day. As for the music on MKO? Well, it's a boot - poorly recorded, but the performance was decent, and the four (turns out not to be forty five) minute version of Louie Louie at least gives you an idea of what the FBI was looking for back in the '60's. It's likely the version Iggy thought he heard as a kid, come to fruition at Cobo Hall in Detroit in the mid '70's. I guess we shouldn't be surprised - stuff that sits growing in kids' heads for years sometimes comes out all prickles instead of flowers.

• 19 - zingzing

  Mar 07, 2007 at 1:52 pm

  al: "Zing, "to say the stooges had no musical talent is totally missing the point." No, that's exactly my point. If it's not in the music, I ain't interested in the shtick, or the "raw power.""
  
  read the rest of what i said. no cherry picking. that wasn't my point. my point was that they had PLENTY of talent. they didn't get lucky, they fine-tuned every note. they played as a group, with very few overdubs, but they strove for a certain perfection with every take. when they got it, you can hear it.
  
  "On the other hand, punk rockers made a point of pride out of their incompetence. If you could actually playing your damned instruments, that alone would make you suspect."
  
  that's true of the initial burst of punk rock. but listen to just about anything made after the early days of '77. punk "died" because those musicians who started punk learned how to play, and some learned how to play very well indeed. in fact, some of the best players of the past thirty years got their start during punk, and were peaking by '79-'80.
  
  "That's not in fact "raw power," but merely worthless stupid hostility."
  
  ...you haven't listened to that album ("raw power") have you? it's damn obvious that you haven't. it's white-hot psychedelic punk with grating guitars and the spookiest vocalist singing some of his best lyrics (which are anything but dumb or "animal-level crap"), produced (in the 1998 remastering) with this incredibly in-yo-face quality that slaps you about before pummeling you in the gut. it is most certainly one of the most visceral albums to come out of the 70s. it's most certainly got everything to do with music.
  
  it's become obvious from your comments that you haven't listened to the stooges with much of an open mind. when i was 16, they sounded a bit raw and simplistic for my tastes, and it wasn't until several years later that i figured them out. sometimes it takes a few years. i'd go back and check them out again, because you are missing something fantastic.

• 20 - jaz

  Mar 07, 2007 at 2:21 pm

  big Al sez - "I have mixed feelings about "punk rock," at least in the narrowest sense of the term."
  
  Tearing me Apart - Rollins.
  
  Iggy - Wild America.
  
  nuff said

• 21 - jaz

  Mar 07, 2007 at 2:23 pm

  how could i have forgotten this one!
  
  St. Lemmy sez - R.A.M.O.N.E.S.
  
  gabba gabba hey!

• 22 - Al Barger

  Mar 07, 2007 at 2:36 pm

  Zing, I have listened to the Stooges with an open mind - but not an empty one. I'm not going to listen to ANYTHING determined to like it no matter what is actually on the record. I listen to all music with the intent of seeing what value or substance it might have. I want to understand what people see in stuff, even if it's not necessarily my thing.
  
  Now, it's certainly possible that I'm just not getting it sometimes. That's certainly the case frequently with more challenging jazz or European classical music. I just don't quite have the vocabulary sometimes to understand things. Sometimes Miles or Coltrane is whizzing over my head.
  
  But that generally doesn't apply to punk rock, or any kind of American style pop music. It's not like I'm not smart enough to get Iggy, I'm just not buying it. There's no THERE there.
  
  Plus, invoking his pre-Stooges history as a jazz drummer to prove his musical bona fides seems like an admission that the stuff that he's actually (semi) known for is not musically legitimate.
  
  I appreciate very much how the proud incompetence of full-fledged "punk rock" got buried - and became the seed for a lot of great "new wave" acts. That seed of punk minimalism and passion has been an excellent guidepost for Elvis Costello, for example.
  
  He's developed in a whole bunch of directions, and actually learned to read and write sheet music like a professional musician. But when he gets extended out making Bacharach records and such, he guides it back toward his beloved Clash records (and Hank Sr) and such before he loses the focus and passion, and dissipates.
  
  This is all very good - but it still doesn't make Iggy Pop's songs any good.

• 23 - Al Barger

  Mar 07, 2007 at 2:47 pm

  JC sez: "a classical music fan might be of the opinion that the Who are limited performance artists whose guitar trashing antics were mindlessly hostile audience baiting schtick disguised as pretensious performance art"
  
  Thing there is that the classical music fans would simply be WRONG. They'd just be snobs who did not understand what they were hearing. The author and performers of "The Real Me" and "Baba O'Riley" are highly skilled and sophisticated musicians with a lot to say. If someone doesn't see that, then they're just not getting it. It ain't "pretension" if you've actually got the goods. The trashing of guitars was not all that they were about. Those kind of things were just gravy.

• 24 - zingzing

  Mar 07, 2007 at 2:51 pm

  "Plus, invoking his pre-Stooges history as a jazz drummer to prove his musical bona fides seems like an admission that the stuff that he's actually (semi) known for is not musically legitimate."
  
  if you would listen to the stooges again, you're likely to hear some of that in the stooges. it's not all simple 2 or 3 chord punk. some of it is. but a good half of it is not. from what you said, i think that you've just missed "it." "it" is most certainly "there." iggy is a LOT smarter than you are giving him credit for.
  
  "He's [costello] developed in a whole bunch of directions, and actually learned to read and write sheet music like a professional musician."
  
  all well and good for elvis costello, but learning to read and write sheet music is not a measure of an artist's worth. in a lot of people's cases, learning too much technical mumbo-jumbo strips them of their power. in costello's case that may have helped him (although i think that his later stuff doesn't hold a candle to most of his early stuff), but in iggy's case, that would just destroy his ability to make an impact.
  
  compositional complexity works for certain genres, not so much for others. to make all genres play by the same rules makes it hard to appreciate what makes each genre work. you can't approach beethovan the same way you approach reich, or the same way you approach roxy music, or the sex pistols. you can't even approach the sex pistols and pil the same. nor "the clash" and "sandanista!" you're just putting limits on what you can and can't appreciate.
  
  

• 25 - zingzing

  Mar 07, 2007 at 2:55 pm

  "They'd just be snobs who did not understand what they were hearing."
  
  classical snob: the who :: al barger: the stooges.

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