Hey, here's a list guaranteed NOT to make the corporate press: the top ten OVER-rated.
I'd like to kick things off with that dinosaur classic, the most over-rated 'heavy metal' band of all time LED ZEPPELIN.…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
Hey, here's a list guaranteed NOT to make the corporate press: the top ten OVER-rated.
I'd like to kick things off with that dinosaur classic, the most over-rated 'heavy metal' band of all time LED ZEPPELIN.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Peter G.
I'm so much smarter than everyone else! Would, could anyone at least try and challenge me? Now we are so fortunate as to have yet another imbecile join the fold. Welcome, Nick!
27 - Nick Jones
We checked, and we can't get what you claim to be saying from the paragraph cited:
"I'm just not an idiot such as yourself who thinks or tries to educate his empty mind through rock songs. Try Tolstoy, then again that would be a bit over your head."
It would seem that you are first saying Barry should educate himself with Tolstoy rather than rock songs, then say that he should choose Tolstoy over rock songs in order to find meaningful messages. But why choose? May not both have meaning, albeit to different degrees,if one hath but eyes to see?
Personally, we have always cherished "I Am The Walrus" as a favorite bit of psychedelic Dada/Surrealism, and 98% of "Physical Graffiti" as top-of-the-line late Seventies commercial rock.
Bow.
28 - Rodney Welch
Wow, Led Zeppelin is "over-rated"? Wow -- has anyone ever written such an unusual opinion? Obviously not, as you can no doubt tell by the extraordinary amount of debate you have stirred up in our little community. No wonder they call you "Mr. Iconoclast"! You are truly a man who "marches to the beat of his own drummer"! I'll bet you don't "suffer fools gladly" either! I await your next brave opinion, which I'm sure will no doubt encourage all of us to give our comfortable opinions the re-think they so sorely need. Tell me, what do you think of this "rap" music? Is it really "here to stay"?
29 - Barry Stoller
I suspect the above is some clever form of sarcasm totally over my head but, hell, I'll venture. I remember the exact moment I first heard 'The Breaks' over the radio; I thought 'novelty.' Shortly after I heard 'The Message' (later 'New York') blasting across a street and I thought: this is fuckin' IT - the new noise-art-political Subterranean Homesick Blues strong enough to kill Reaganomics. Well, that hope fell WAY short but rap has been important across the board. 'Here to stay'? Depends on your skin color, probably.
30 - Peter G.
Who exactly is we, Nick? You have a rodent up your ass? It's evident YOU can't get it. This is THE point: all of rock music is over-rated to one extent or another; and a great many better ways exist to educate oneself and broaden one's mind other than ROCK music; it does not even qualify necessarily as important. Far more important and beneficial to the world would be classical,jazz,blues,folk music(pick a continent, does not matter)anything but, get it now? No, one need not choose, just keep it in perspective. Rock and roll is fine and dandy, but no one ever involved in it would I consider to have anything THAT important to impart. Strange, can not seem to find where I suggested Barry choose. Over your empty little head indeed, Nick ole'girl. You have ceased to qualify as a boy. Bow? Only cocksuckers such as yourself do that. Real men die rather than bow, but you are what you certainly are.
31 - Nick Jones
With that rage (over NOTHING), shouldn't you be up in a university tower with a sniper rifle?
The "royal 'we'" was a joke, a take off on intellectual snobbery, speaking of going over someone's empty head. Read #24 again.
And if you're going to start with the "question your opponents' manhood and/or sexual preference" tactic of debate and discourse, I'm not going to play. Although I do have to ask: your last initial...stands for 'Gobbler', yes?
32 - Peter G.
Don't be ashamed of your sexuality, Nick. Anyone stupid enough to think using 'we'qualifies as intellectual snobbery well, it kind of helps to be an intellectual in the first place. As for the sniper and rifle comment: only if you are in the crosshairs. What's the rodent's name could it be Barry? The last initial stands for GOD. No one is questioning your manhood, there is no need. You certainly are what you are.
33 - SCOTTO
Man, most all of you seem to be a little 'touched'. Nick and Peter need either long vacations or therapy. It's all arbitrary, so who really cares. Listen to what ever gets you through the night. I've always rather enjoyed Led Zep myself, but they are hardly gods or whatever some lonely people consider them. How about Van Morrison? Anyone want to take a shot at him?
34 - Peter G.
Touched, SCOTTO? You and ole' Nick the girl should get together. Ladies and gentleman, idiot #4,592,342,230,500 has joined our "LITTLE COMMUNITY". Welcome, SCOTTO! I need therapy? Is it my fault that I am intellectually superior to everyone?
35 - SCOTTO
Seek help, Peter, immediately! You are certainly no intellectual. Your emotions are way out of control. Nick is very sharp as even a blind man could see. You are definitely out of your league. Go read some of his other posts(Nick's), he is my hero. How can I be more like you, Nick?
36 - Nick Jones
SCOTTO, I'm an Eno man myself. Thought I'd have a little fun with the whole concept of "my favorite [______] is better than yours, and your (sic) a moron" as a mode of legitimate discourse; never thought I'd touch off a firestorm.
You're right, it IS all arbitrary, but some people (over)react to the question of "who's the best [______]?", as if it were a matter of the balance of Good and Evil in the universe. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing it's not.
And I don't need to come here to have someone become enraged and abusive because I disagree with them; I can get that from my brother.
37 - SCOTTO
That would be Brian, sure. I agree whole heartedly: enraged and abusive is an idiotic combination, and Peter G. definitely qualifies. Your so smart,Nick.
38 - Nick Jones
Not really. But I know what I like.
39 - Shark
Petey, I don't wanna rain on your overly intellectual parade of long-since dead overrated Russian novelists, but any claim to intellectual superiority is immediately negated by your use of the phrase "duh!" in comment #19.
Only a fucking moron would use that phrase. But you knew that -- 'cause you're so smart!
Just trying to be helpful.
PS: And Peter (may I call you a euphemism for a PRICK?) -- I'm just happy to be a part of your first appearance on an internet message board. And to think it coincided with your first beer! Wow, how lucky we all are.
40 - Shark
Petey makes a really big, important point for the rest of the class:
PeterG.This is THE point: all of rock music is over-rated to one extent or another; and a great many better ways exist to educate oneself and broaden one's mind other than ROCK music; it does not even qualify necessarily as important. Far more important and beneficial to the world would be classical,jazz,blues,folk music(pick a continent, does not matter)anything but, get it now? No, one need not choose, just keep it in perspective. Rock and roll is fine and dandy, but no one ever involved in it would I consider to have anything THAT important to impart.
Petey, just another tip: a lecture on expanding one's mind through cultural diversity in music that is delivered via a retarded, rambling, junior-high level paragraph that can barely string together a series of coherent sentences doesn't exactly support your assertion that you're a real smart boy.
My advice: make a passing reference to a dead Russian composer in your next post.
(Try Google)
PS: "...fine and dandy..." is a trite, archaic cliche that should be avoided by any writer concerned with quality and originality. But you knew that.
Just trying to be helpful.
41 - Nick Jones
"Go read some of his other posts(Nick's), he is my hero. How can I be more like you, Nick?"
Are you familiar with the expression, "be careful what you wish for?"
Okay, I'm not going to go into that.
Read. Read everything, even things with which you would violently disagree. Evaluate. Adopt nothing that does not feel right in your heart and soul, whatever you believe those concepts to mean. Be aware that you can always be mistaken, and need to make adjustments.
Be aware that most human beings are neither gods nor monsters. Anyone who tells you differently is trying to sell you something.
If you are asked to do something that sounds like it is against your best interests, it probably is. Again, someone is trying to sell you something. Always ask 'cui bono?' - "for whose benefit?"
Choose "inclusive" over "exclusive."
42 - SCOTTO
Shark seems a little uptight. Why do you keep pandering to that fool, Peter G.? Overrated Russian novelist? You are not exactly any smarter than ole' Petey, either. As for critiquing ole' Petey's writing, you may want to hire an editor yourself. Nick, where are you? Put this amateur, highly strung Shark in his place. You are far better qualified than I. Bow, Shark! P.S.: Only ONE Russian novelist mentioned. I believe Joyce was Irish, and Thomas Welsh. You and Petey need to go away and address your anger issues.
43 - Shark
Scotto, I'm never "uptight". Just havin' some fun with a garrulous motard.
xxoo
S
44 - SCOTTO
Petey is definitely a moron/retard. Did I get that correct? That's very clever. Do you honestly consider Tolstoy overrated? Than what exactly would you consider literature? Rather enjoy the count myself. Nick, any profound thoughts pertaining to Russian lit?
45 - Peter G.
Shark, you have wounded me deeply! Welcome another imbecile folks! Hey, Scotto, you queer for Nick, or what, duh! Keep it to youselves, you sick bastards! I still RULE!!!!
46 - SCOTTO
Nothing wrong with having heroes other than ones self, oh superior Petey! By the tone and tenor of your frustrated posts, it would seem to me that it's been a long time since you caught sight of a pussy other than in a photogragh. I do quite well myself, thank you. I must also, hesitantly, agree with Shark. Stop using duh. You come across like a prepubescent girl. Anyone care to take a shot at Van Morrison?
47 - Nick Jones
With all his talk about the alleged homosexuality of posters, anyone wanna take bets that he's a self-hating closet case?
48 - SCOTTO
The one who points the finger....... Peter is too easy. Anyone want to take a shot at Kerouac? I know, I'm becoming redundant. Just trying to open as many cans as possible.
49 - Justin GFY
All of this rambling is seemingly pointless. Everybody has their own opinion and to become so heated over something that is only meant for entertainment is incohesively irate. In a situation such as a message board, nobody really knows anybody, so why do you all instantly seem to turn to the most primitive of all responses; anger?
To be totally honest, I believe myself to be one of few people that critique led zeppelin that actually knows what playing an instrument (one relevant to rock music, although it's not completely exclusive, IE john Paul Jones use of the mandolin, or Jimmy Page's use of a 12 string guitar, most people who play guitar are outright AFRAID of 12 strings)is like, what's involved, and what it takes. Jimmy Page is one of the most talented musicians ever, let alone guitarists. the man writes his own music, plays rhythm AS WELL AS lead guitars, does any of you have any idea how difficult it would be to stay in time when switching back and forth? Name anyguitarist out there, Jimmy Page is probably better, and please don't name Hendrix, that's just outright annoying
as for whoever it was wh orepeatedly referenced authors of whatever genre of literature that would classify as, what does it have to do with rock music? maybe if someone wants to write a song they'll turn to existing literature, but most people just have the ability to take their personal issues and make a song out of it. I cannot believe that any song done by Led Zeppelin was a "filler". Even ones that may be considered a filler (possibly not up to Zeppelin's amazing standards), could kick the ass out of most other bands leadoff singles. As for the Beatles, let's talk about Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds, Yellow Submarine, were not those songs about drugs exclusively? So then why is it so infeasible that John Lennon's genius was knowing that these topics would sell to rebellious young adults of the time? and to Peter G., worship someone besides yourself, it may help to increase your level of non academic intelligence, you know, the intelligence that actually matters? yeah that's the one.
50 - Nick Jones
I usually turn to mockery before anger (not that the two can't be interrelated), especially with Trolls, and no mercy at all for the sexist, racist, homophobic and xenophobic.
I wouldn't call myself a Zep fan, but I like a lot of their stuff. One of my regrets is hearing "Physical Grafitti" (which after thirty years is still in my album top ten) a week after they had played Indianapolis when I was in college; if I had known how great the album was, I wouldn't have missed the concert.
51 - TDavid
Well Al Barger thinks Sabbath is overrated so why not somebody else think Zeppelin is overrated? I chalk both these up to personal opinion because history thus far shows that both bands have stood the test of time -- 30+ years so far -- pretty well :)
Now if you want to talk about one hit wonder artists like Aldo Nova (has he done anything noteworthy since Fantasy?) Poison, Kingdom Clone, er Come (who was hammered for being a Zep rip-off) and the like, well, then we can truly use the term "overrated."
52 - Eric Olsen
I kind of like Poison
53 - TDavid
The only Poison song I care for is I Won't Forget You -- what do you like by them, Eric?
54 - duane
Claiming that Black Sabbath is overrated is a more tenable proposition than claiming likewise for Zeppelin. LZ is much more diverse than Sabbath. Tony Iommi may have been a riff master, but it was pretty much all along the same lines (yes, yes, there were a few exceptions -- I said "pretty much"). Zeppelin was exceptionally versatile for a 4-man rock band. I always used to say that they were underrated because they were mostly identified with a handful of favorites --- "Rock and Roll," "Whole Lotta Love," and "When the Levee Breaks," for example, which get round the clock airplay. These are very heavy, straight ahead rock tunes, although the distinctive Led Zep style distinguishes them from your run-of-the-mill rock fare. These songs epitomize Led Zeppelin to music listeners falling outside the LZ fanatic minority. I always thought that LZ carved a unique niche with songs like "No Quarter," "The Song Remains the Same," and "Achilles Last Stand," for exmple, which, in addition to being complex, are unlike almost any popular music being made back then. They don't merely kick ass. There music often displays subtlety (almost to the point of "How did they think of that?"), beauty ("Rain Song," for example), tasty arrangement (recall the drum/guitar rhythm mismatch in "Black Dog," supposedly a mistake that they decided to keep), funk ("The Crunge," delivered with a 9/8 meter for your furrowed brow listening pleasure), the droning walls of sound ("Four Sticks"-- "And when the owls cry in the night"), non-standard chord combinations (the elegantly simple G minor to A major change in "Kashmir" that forces the Middle Eastern modality), and much more for the discriminating (such as me) that sets them apart. But I like Sabbath, too. What can I say?
55 - duane
Pardon me for egregious grammatical errors. I wasn't myself. I hope the Comment Police are out for donuts.
56 - Eric Olsen
TD, the usual hits: "Talk Dirty to Me" ""Nothin' But a God Time" "Fallen Angel" "Every Rose" "Unskinny Bop."
Nothing amazing or anything, jsut serviceable hard rock with some good tunes and riffs.
57 - Tom Johnson
Ah, Kingdom Come. I stumbled upon them before I got into LZ, actually. I will always fondly remember the memory of my dad asking me what CD I was rushing out to buy the day that their second album, In Your Face, and I blurted out "Kingdom come in your face." The look of confusion and shock on my dad's face was priceless, and it took me a few moments to figure out why. Stumbling to clear it up, I restated it awkwardly: "In Your Face, it's Kingdom Come's new album." He just shook his head, smiled, and laughingly said, "Okay!"
58 - SCOTTO
As far as musicianship in one four man ensemble, does any other band rate with Zeppelin? Not to mention all of the other qualities such as their eclectism, production, live presentation. Zeppelin really thrived most of the time on stage. Perfect? Hell no. But then, what is? Justin, what makes you think no one else here is a musician? Hendrix annoying? Put down the instrument and take a writing course. Peter G. at least makes an attempt at proper grammar, although the fool has serious issues. Oh, grammar falls under academic intelligence. My sincerest apologies.
59 - Justin GFY
Nick, find one grammatical error (not spelling error) and I will sincerely apologize for my rashness. Academic intelligence matters, but for lack of better words, if you're a dumass, you're a dumass, and Peter G is a dumass, plain and simple, the guys probably trips over his own "godly" feet daily, and took 5 years to learn to tie his shoes. This isn't a personal attack, more just a way to clarify the meaning of my previous post (although there was really nothing cryptic about it).
Hendrix is definitely by no means annoying, but hearing popular opinion dictate that he is the greatest guitarist ever, is. Hendrix was one hell of an axeman, no denying it, but Page, there's simply no comparison.
anybody here who still thinks ze pis over rated, check out these songs
battle of evermore
black dog
whole lotta love (love that solo)
I can't quit you babe
heartbreaker
rock and roll
in my time of dying
over the hills and far away
communication breakdown
gallows pole
dazed and confused
the ocean
tangerine
stariway to heaven
couple more things, what's the point of picking on zep's later albums? everybody knows thir earlier stuff was more solid, not to say their later stuff was awfully BAD, but still, obivously most of their better songs were on zeppelin 1 through 4.
NCIK, again, in case u weren't aware, or just never thought about it, Rush is one hell of a band for versatility and instrumentalism. what other three man band can you think of that makes music like that? Just a sort of side tracking point.
oh yeah, and to address one more point, if anybody else here is a musician of any kind, say so, I'd be glad to talk about that :)
60 - Barry Stoller
Again: please visit <this site for an edifying appraisal of Page's multiple plagariarisms (including 'Communication Breakdown,' 'Dazed and Confused,' 'Tangerine' and 'Stairway to Heaven'). That said, you must be kidding when you mention 'Battle of Evermore.' Ever listen to Fairport Convention or Renaissance? 'Over the Hills and Far Away'? - lame guitar solo. Zep remains popular with the masses - and reviled by the cool - for making heavy metal ... safe for girls.
61 - Nick Jones
Interesting article, Barry. Thanks for the link.
62 - Eric Olsen
I find alien the concept of liking or disliking music (or whatever) based upon how popular it is or isn't.
63 - Barry Stoller
I find alien the concept of liking or disliking music (or whatever) based upon how popular it is or isn't.
I submit the idea that popularity is a motive force in the development of (pop) music: thesis and anti-thesis, unity of opposites (to employ some philosophical notions). Was not the 'amateur' Elvis-Berry breakthrough a rebellious response to the 'professional' hypertrophication of the Sinatra sound? When a style becomes too mainstream, too unhip, there's always a 'cutting edge' - a momentary exclusivity - to supplant it. Certainly, punk challenged the hegemony, the over popularity of Steely Dan, etc. This is the process in which music grows. If not, we'd all still be sitting happy with our Frank records, God knows he was willing to keep crankin' 'em out.
64 - Eric Olsen
I don't doubt dialectical aspects of the creation and dissemination of popular art, especially on a meta level, but I'm talking about why individuals would allow the popularity or unpopularity of music affect how they personally react to it. Of course the popularity will affect the likelihood of a given work being heard, but that is another matter.
65 - Barry Stoller
...why individuals would allow the popularity or unpopularity of music affect how they personally react to it...
Dialectics, exactly. We hear nothing in a vacuum - and most of this stuff we heard in high school. Music, for better or worse, is (in part) a badge - hence this very forum. Repetition, especially when it is driven by corporate design, and especially when it is used as a means to silence other (less corporate-friendly) artistic statements is a force to question and resist. Hence my contributions to your little community here.
66 - Eric Olsen
That is one approach - another is to address the music's merits directly.
67 - paul
Talking of Led Zep
I have Led Zep 2 on vinyle
on the inside cover track lists track 3 as The Lemon Song
label on vinyl says Killing Floor
anyone know if this is an error or supposed to be like that .
68 - Robert Davis
Earlier in this post, there seemed to be some confusion about the song title D'yer Mak'r. So I thought I would set the record straight. It is derived from an old pub joke about a man who is telling his friend that his wife left him and went to the Carribean. The friend responds, "Jamaica?" The man say's, "No, she went on her own accord." (misinterpreting Jamaica with D'yer Mak'r (did you make her). This title is butchered all the time and it seems that very few know the origins and correct pronunciation.
69 - Eric Olsen
I heard "Ramble On" over the weekend, which captured my attention more than it normally would because my younger daughter and I have been watching the extended Lords of the Rings 1/2 movie at a time, and when RP sang, "T'was in the darkest depths of Mordor, I met a girl so fair/But Gollum, and the evil one crept up and slipped away with her, her, her....yeah" it kind of kicked me in the gut. While the context of the lyrics may be a little silly, there is nothing remotely mediocre about that song: beautifully varied and nuanced vocals, remarkably inventive guitar, exceptional melody, the juxtaposition of delicacy and power. Extraordinary.
70 - Nowhere Man
Me and a good friend were recently discussing "classic albums", albums that are good start to finish. Led Zep IV was on our list.
Stealing/ripping someone else off is highly subjective indeed. Did Dire Straits "rip off" the Stones' "Satisfaction" when they made "Money for Nothing"? Yes and no. Clear connection between the riffs, but I don't see how either one is bad. Such is the nature of art. There is a lot of give and take. And, in cases where Zeppelin songs borrow from other artists, I see no harm done, and I find it weak to seize upon the bits of their catalogue that one finds un-original to stereotype their whole contribution to rock. The same goes for focusing on their weakest material (assuming that it is, in fact, their weakest).
The whole portrayal of Rolling Stone as the NYT of music magazines either ignores outright or pre-supposes that the British music press is subordinate to Rolling Stone, a rather silly notion.
And talking the talk isn't necessarily walking the walk. Barry, you invited this upon yourself: Do tell what the lyrics to "I am the Walrus" mean.
71 - jadester
"stealing" still goes on alot in music today. Aside from words themselves, which i admit is easier to say for sure one way or another, when it comes to tunes, unless it's about note-for-note, it's more of a ripoff than a steal. I hear so many tunes these days, at least from rock bands, that have huge sections i think i recognise...then i go listen to another tune from another band, usually from several decades ago, and i realise where i first heard it. But they don't credit these.
As for just their quality of playing, i love much of LZ's stuff. My only regret, is that i wasn't even born when they were around, as they were truly meant to be seen live. That was what made them so popular "back in the day", you can see on the DVD from 2003 that that's how they were meant to be experienced, as are many rock groups.
72 - Andrea
Whoaa.. you're all crrrazy. Zeppelin has got to be THE best rock and roll band in history, those men were sexy and each at least 2 or 3 of them have been argued as a great performer in their line of expertise. Mr. Page on the guitar is praised for his amazing skills and his soothing, sloppy style of playing. Mr. Bonham, on the drums, is a hard-hitting, unbelievable live act, true that the recordings can bore me at times in the percussion section but listen to any live work of his and you're guaranteed to be blown away. Now, Robert Plant, that man was SEXY. He has a seductive, steamy, raspy voice with quite a range, and when he holds a scream/note... oh man. He was an awesome front man, being completely drool-worthy all the time, and really working a crowd. Mr Jones really polishes off the band with beautiful bass, piano and mandolin melodies.. all necessary instruments for a super-band such as Led Zeppelin.. I'll give you that they have a good handful of songs that are greatly over-played.. but I wouldn't call a whole lot of them 'filler'. A number of my favourite songs, well appreciated, are on your knock-off list over there, buddy.
I Can't Quit You Baby
How Many More Times
Lemon Song
the guitar riff in Moby Dick
Celebration Day
Since I've Been Loving You
Out On The Tiles
Bron-Y-Aur Stomp
Hats Off To (Roy) Harper
The Battle Of Evermore
Misty Mountain Hop
Four Sticks
The Crunge
Dancing Days
D'Yer Mak'Er
In The Light
Bron-Y-Aur (is beautiful)
Boogie With Stu
Sick Again
Royal Orleans
Candy Store Rock
Hots On For Nowhere
those are clearly not filler.
along with some great works such as:
Black Country Woman
Night Flight
Communication Breakdown
Black Dog
Friends
Ten Years Gone
You Shook Me
We're Gonna Groove
Trampled Underfoot
Hey Hey
Heartbreaker
Going to California
That's The Way
Tangerine
Sugar Mama
Ramble On
The Ocean
No Quarter
The Rain Song
Whole Lotta Love
Your Time Is Gonna Come
Nadine (wonderful blues song)
Misty Mountain Hop
Immigrant Song
Kashmir
Oh my, there's so many... I hope you get the idea... you're wrong. :)
73 - SFC Ski
I am no great Zep Fan, there was a time where I taped over all my Zep cassettes and changed stations at the first note of "Stairway to Heaven". THe thing that needs to be taken into consideration was how new and fresh Zep was when it first appeared on the scene.
THe other problem with any classic rock staple is that CR programmers forgot that many bands put out albums, not just singles, and some of the best Zep is the stuff you never hear on the radio.
74 - Dino
No rock band is worthy of 'deity' status, however to simply dismiss Led Zep as 'Kitsch' or 'filler' not to mention the other adjectives misses the point of such a rock band. All I can suggest is that you listen to the BBC Sessions of Led Zep live and then review again your post.
75 - GoHah
I committed the ultimate rock 'n' roll faux pas at the first Live-Aid in Philadelphia in the 80's when, due primarily to heat stroke, I was forced to remain seated during "Stairway To Heaven." Blasphemy! Let's just say lunch was on me: I got pelted with so much food and verbal abuse I was lucky to get out alive.