With all due respect, Kurt Cobain makes a poor excuse for a cultural icon. I don't mean to discount his personal pain, or anything like that. Ten years ago today, though, the cat offed himself. Since then, a lot of people have set him up as some kind of great symbol, like some cheap rock and roll Christ figure who died for our sins or something.
Yuck, people. This guy was weak and suffering and did not ever seem to get any joy from his success. He was one miserable downer. Of all the musicians you could set up as your hero or idol, why this sad sack?
Camille Paglia made a similar point several years ago. She contrasted Cobain as a sad little lost boy, compared to the tough MEN of the 60s rock generation - Bob Dylan, Mick and Keef, etc.
It's not like Nirvana's music was all that. They only made about four albums, and none of them was a Sgt Pepper or Purple Rain. They did some good work, but it's not like it was anything to lose your mind over a decade later. I don't see anyone carrying on like this about Terence Trent D'Arby now, for example, and he's FAR more accomplished on every musical level.
On the other hand, TTD didn't tragically blow his brains out to complete some requirements for legendhood. What's up with that? Does getting yourself dead somehow make you a greater artist retroactively?
What's with this cheesy death cult stuff, anyway? What do people get from obsessing over these dead people? There are plenty of much more accomplished musicians who did not self-destruct you could cast as your golden calves.
Why would you set your mind on Kurt Cobain when you could just as easily be doting on Paul Simon or Prince? Call me crazy, but I'd much rather obsess over Graceland or Lovesexy rather than Cobain singing "I Hate Myself and Want to Die." It's a lot more fun - and a lot healthier as well.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Douglas Mays
Guess what!? Kurt makes a great cultural icon. Maybe the best ever. Why? He was speaking deep down for alot of people. Millions of records don't sell for no reason at all. It wasn't something that you could go out and market. It pretty much did it on its own. And he spoke well, from the soul. 'Unplugged' shows what a crafty songwriter he actually was.
You are trying to say money can buy happiness? Get a grip! If TTD blew his head off, no big deal (Terrance, sorry, but you get the point I'm trying to make...). How about if first chair violin for the London Symphony Orchestra blew his/her head off. A more accomplished musician than most on this planet, but so what?
Pop culture involves much more than the music. Well performed musical statements are what make it. Part of that performance is ones own reality.
In a big picture of Kurt's perplexities, maybe Bob Dylan showing up in a Victoria's Secret ad might give some light to the concept.
2 - Shan
Are you kidding me? I am not saying he was a rock gawd, but let's give Nirvana some credit - they DO deserve some.
they brought a musical style to the forefront, that would forever change the face of 'accepted' rock music and give way to a decade that would put depth and feeling BACK into the music.. After hearing the meaningless hairbands of the 80's giveway to an even more annoying genre that would server no more than re-hashing the same 'politically correct' message over and over....
If anything... anything at all lety's at least give nirvana their just thanks for drop-kiccking us out of that cocaine/vegetarian woven monotonous recital and into a decade where bands were not afraid to freakin rock... and mean it!
-Shan
3 - chelle
kurt repeated many times that he hated the social standard on what defined "men", and i thought it was pretty ironic that you mentioned "tough MEN of the 60s rock generation". who do you think are men? people who don leather pants and make loud music by just using their amps? kurts cobains music came from his soul, not just the equipment he used. i can count the number of icons today who do that on my toes.
4 - bhw
kurts cobains music came from his soul,
That and his antidepressants.
I like Nirvana and I thought the Unplugged show really showcased, as someone said above, Cobain's songwriting craft. But this reverence of the self-consciously depressed and heroin addicted rock Icon has just got to go. It's not soulfull. It's just melodrama dressed up as deep thinking.
I think the quote from Cobain's mother when he died was something like, "Now he's gone and joined that stupid club."
5 - Guest
I have to say I agree with Al. Look, I was in my early teens when Nirvana came out, also around the time I started playing guitar. As much as I enjoyed there music, I don't see why so many people put him on a pedestal. Sure he HELPED (not set the standard for) grunge music to become popular but you also have to factor in the musical climate at the time and the fact that Nirvana was NOT the only band playing grunge at the time. He was a good songwriter even though he was a HORRIBLE guitar player (technically speaking, Im sure it doesn't matter to a lot of you). Cobain has my respect as a musician but as a person, he certainly does not deserve deification.
6 - Craig Lyndall
Al, you can try all you like, but anyone who compares Cobain to Terrence Trent D'Arby is out of his mind. Wishing Well, isn't enough to compare with "Teen Spirit," "Come As You Are," "In Bloom," "Heart-shaped Box," and the entire Unplugged performance.
7 - visualsimplicity
Are you kidding me? I am not saying he was a rock gawd, but let's give Nirvana some credit - they DO deserve some.
Are you kidding me? Al may not give Nirvana much credit, but from the rest of the world, they seem to get too much credit.
As "Guest" said, there were other grunge musicians during the time of Nirvana. Anyone remember a group called Pearl Jam? Now I wonder if Eddie Vedder would have reached deity status if he had went and killed himself around the same time too.
8 - Eric Olsen
What I tried to do in my essay on Cobain was to separate the artist from the person: he was a great artist and a crappy person. Nothing new there.
9 - Al Barger
BHW had it just right in comment 4. There's nothing profound about wallowing in depression.
As to being deep, I would counter anything Cobain ever wrote with the Terence Trent D'Arby song "Vibrator," referring to the life force deep down inside. It's a better song arguably than any by Cobain, but also exactly the counter view to Cobain's determined nihilism.
Eric, I want to separate myself from your last statement there. I'm not saying that Cobain was a "crappy person." He may have been a real nice fellow- but I sure don't want to sit around thinking about or being like him.
I think I give Nirvana perfectly fair credit. They were a crappy band with an outstanding songwriter. Cobain wrote maybe a dozen outstanding songs. That's actually a pretty fair accomplishment- but not even close to an explanation for his continued deification.
All this stuff about him changing the course of music forever and such is just nonsense. What's different because of Cobain even a mere 10 years past?
Grunge was there before Cobain- though it wasn't that much of a distinctive musical movement at any point. In any case, it's gone now.
Kurt Cobain and Grunge - RIP
10 - Douglas Mays
Eric,
OK, that angle makes sense. What I was trying to say is that I wouldn't call him a crappy person. He was a mis-wired observant person. The drugs, etc. were just symptoms. His music was his therapy and art. He was a good visual artist as well. He did have that given ability and it did get displayed on a big level.
He spoke from the soul, his was all fucked up. As a late teen I went through that suicide-depression trip ('I'm Eighteen' by Alice Cooper could be an all time great on the social understanding song chart) and my soul did feel a thousand years old.
Anyway, Kurt displayed an aspect of the human psyche. Its cool. Its legit. Ugh!, too complex to get in to before drinkin' my a.m. coffee.
peaceloveguidance...
11 - sheri
Eric said that Kurt Cobain became something like "an ABSTRACT icon" of Generation X. And I agree. I also agree with another woman on another comment I read somewhere about David Grohl. He wasn't really appreciated until the Foo Fighters. Also, it moved from grunge to a mixture of alternative/punk/metal pretty quickly, so after awhile it kind of came under a single umbrella.United them so to speak.Seperate but together. I believe Eric said something along those lines too. You could see this in our cd collections, and hear it on radio stations.
12 - duane
Musical influence aside, I think it's fairly common for young people to identify with "tortured geniuses." Owing to his notoriety, Cobain was a quick fix for young screwed up people, who are pessimistic about their lot in life, and rather than light a fire under their asses, prefer to pretend to themselves and others that they are misunderstood. "I'm so deep. No one has ever thought the deep, dark thoughts that obsess me." Like I said, music aside here. He may have written some fine 3-chord music, but the reason that his stature went over the top is because of his posturing as the tortured genius with hair in his eyes and a guitar in his hands.
13 - Douglas Mays
HHHMMM... let me add that I find it kinda sad the lack of understanding of the legitimacy of the emotions that Kurt displayed. There are volumes of clinical information (including cure) about it all. Wouldn't one consider Peter Green's mania legit? No, I'm only making a psyche comparison!!!
Kurt never got the medical attention. Look at his stomach problems, a physical medical problem. My theory is that such attention stopped when his folks divorced at age 10.
Oh, Al Barger, grunge is R.I.P.? Time to take a look at the modern roots of it all. Click on my name at the top of this comment, it will take you to the URL. It might give you a different view about the whole trip.
Oh, actually, Nirvana was a very good band. A 3 piece band. Tough to make that work. But when it does, it kicks. They were a rare 3 piece that worked.
Also, say Andy Wood of Mother Love Bone had not died of a heroin O.D., MLB became Pearl Jam to fullfill a record contract. Grunge would have taken a whole different direction I bet. MLB 'Apple" is the best album of that era. X-15 'Bombs and Insurance' is a compilation which displays the best ideas of the whole 'Seattle Scene'.
Anyway, I live and work the scene up here, so I am just passing along perspective that is a bit closer to the source. Oh the humanity.... (lol!)
peaceloveguidance
14 - bhw
I think that addiction is real and that illness is real. And I have a lot of compassion for people who are mentally ill. I just don't think that it necessarily makes them write from "the soul" any more than someone who isn't depressed or ill. [Didn't Alanis Morrisette kind of have that epiphany along the way, that it wasn't more artistic to be down and depressed all the time?]
And I think it's a mistake to glorify depression or drug abuse and to present them to young people as being cool and artistic and deep. They're not. They're illnesses that need treatment.
15 - Douglas Mays
Oh wow, reading other people's comments, I do have to throw this in.
First of all, about all this wallowing in depression as an illegitimate personal emotion. Van Gogh, Hemingway, I guess that makes all their works bullshit.
Then I see people saying things to the effect of 'lighting a fire under his ass'. Those people don't understand the depth or complexities or the powers of the mind. Say someone close to you dies and you are sad and crying. I say, 'knock it off! Quit your goddamn crying! Your emotions are bullshit!'
Anyway, get the picture? Kurt wasn't a dumbshit. He spoke very well for affliction. Time to treat the situation.
peaceloveguidance
16 - bhw
My point is that real clinical depression is a serious illness. It shouldn't be treated as a persona that can be adopted in order to become more artistic. The problem is that young people buy into that crap and start to adopt a phony Cobain-like persona, thinking it makes them more deep and insightful.
There are and have been lots of artists of all genres who suffered from mental illness. And there have been just as many if not more who haven't. To suggest that a depressed person is more in touch with his soul or is more artistic than a healthy person is just ridiculous.
That doesn't mean Cobain's emotions weren't real. It just means we shouldn't make it seem like similar emotions and/or problems are something to be desired in other young people.
17 - Douglas (again...)
hhhmmm... bhw
OK, this brings up an interesting point. Art is speaking from emotion. To the depressed, Kurt provides a fact of understanding to those with the disease. If you aren't afflicted with it you are going to become depressed by listening to Kurt. That would be like suddenly getting cancer by listening to an artist who sings about it.
Are people stupid enough to buy everything they see advertised on TV? Some people sucker to some things, but in general, naw.
The bottom line is that the music is good. should the planet follow Buffy Saint Marie because she makes the world happy? She don't on the huge socialogical perspective. she is just singing an emotion.
peaceloveguidance
18 - bhw
Well, art [at least good art] is more than expressed emotion, in my opinion.
That said, certainly many a fine rock song was written from an emotional experience [all those luuuuuuv songs!].
But yes, I think I do see a bunch of lemmings in our popular culture. Copycats, wannabees, whatever you want to call them. And yes, kids think it's cool to be like whoever they think is cool at the moment. Kurt "created" a bunch of young people who learned to affect the deep, morose, "depressed" young person thing.
You can't easily take on the persona of a cancer patient. But you can adopt the affect of a depressed "artist." It happens all the time -- Alanis Morrisette admitted as much about herself a few years ago. It was an affect -- it wasn't real. Then she stopped buying into the idea that she had to be depressed and unhappy to be a good musician.
19 - Douglas Mays
The trick to really making it in the biz or life is that you have to be yourself. You must be real. Posers don't get too far. Kurt wasn't posing. His problem was that his lack of posing was a means to an end. To quote the Who, 'Can't you see the real me? doctor, doctor?'
Alanis? Was she posing for a while? It is mentioned about adopting a personna. That happens alot in any form via the concept of empathy. Thats what its all about. Adopting personna isn't a bad thing (except for violent types). Maybe it is good and helps develope a better understanding of the human condition.
Ugh!, theories abound. Anyway, Mercury goes into retrograde tomorrow. I need to get a bunch of shit done today, or else, you know what a hassle it could become...
anyway,
peaceloveguidance
20 - duane
"Then I see people saying things to the effect of 'lighting a fire under his ass'." Before you finish painting me as the uncaring sort, let me point out that you misquoted me. I was not saying that Cobain's infirmities were not genuine. My point was that, in my opinion, many of his fans latched onto him because of their perception that he symbolized their own pretensions of being misunderstood geniuses. It's something many kids go through as they make the transition from Mom and Dad to the Cruel Selfish World. It's part of growing up. BHW is doing just fine here, and I don't want to be redundant. I just wanted you, Douglas, to not go off on a tangent by misunderstanding my genius comments. Doh! Now I'm doing it.
21 - jmm
A question: If Kurt is not worthy of icon status, why are you wasting blog space on the subject?
I just don't understand why the Nirvana haters of the world continue to point out what idiots or psychos we are. It must be all these MLB/PJ fans that are still resentful to this day that it's not their band featured on the cover of every third issue of Rolling Stone. (I'm not gloating here. RS exploits the Kurt saga to no end.) But I know people who still think Eddie Vedder is the Jesus reincarnate, and the guy hasn't even died and risen yet. The Veddists know who they are. Why do they miss out on all this hostility?
If Eddie had blown his head off early in his career, it would have at least saved us from the cruelty of Binaural. And possibly, just possibly, we would not have been Bushwhacked in November 2000. Don't blame Nader, don't blame Kurt, blame Eddie. Also, don't get me wrong! I go see PJ every time they tour through Texas. They are one of the greatest live bands ever and a remnant of what I do sincerely believe is one of the the greatest eras of rock music ever, regardless of its brevity. I am just making a point here.
You should quit characterizing Kurt/Nirvana fans as "young screwed up people, who are pessimistic about their lot in life." I would agree that there are those who have not moved on. That holds true to any fan of a supposed immortal. I do not expect that wallowing in depression would make me a great artist. I can't even play my way through three chords without screwing up and have never written a song. I have a real job and am completely focused on reality.
But to write off the entire matter and a generation of fans on this basis is just plain absurd. You don't see me telling you to get over Prince (who, like Kurt, is nothing today), even though I believe his music was the only bad thing about the first Batman movie.
22 - Douglas (again...)
duane, sorry, I was just putting a spin on your quote to make a point. You know, using it in a simplistic way...sorry dude if it was used wrong on a deeper level
Oh, jmm, you know, PJ came pre-fab with their own passed on icon. Andy Wood. Poor guy had the life sucked out of him early by those glomming on to him as 'the next big thing'. Irony can be sick.
Regardless, the bottom line is that it is good, crucial music. With all the popularity and response to blogs, it kinda shows that something is going on here we aren't really aware of. Being a Seattle scene worker, I sure haven't been able to figure it all out. It was all part of the deal, and it happened to take off. I don't get it.
peaceloveguidance
23 - duane
Nice comeback, jmm. You make several good points.
I just don't understand why the Nirvana haters of the world continue to point out what idiots or psychos we are.
I don't hate Nirvana. And (hopefully not sounding too defensive), I don't mean to stereotype ALL Nirvana fans. My opinion is that icon status is often (not always) achieved by fans' perceptions of the personalities of musicians. When the "tortured genius" personna makes its appearance, it tends to garner a larger fanbase. I would be happy to exclude you from that group.
... fans that are still resentful to this day that it's not their band featured on the cover of every third issue of Rolling Stone.
Well, no, actually. I have no hopes that King Crimson will show up on the RS cover. It's really OK. They have to sell their magazine.
You should quit characterizing Kurt/Nirvana fans as "young screwed up people, who are pessimistic about their lot in life."
It was a rather broad brush. (See previous comment). OK, I'll quit.
The Veddists know who they are. Why do they miss out on all this hostility?
Well, it's not actually hostility. We're just having a discussion here. If Vedder were the subject of the post, I would gladly comment on the Veddists.
But to write off the entire matter and a generation of fans on this basis is just plain absurd.
Point taken.
...even though I believe [Prince's] music was the only bad thing about the first Batman movie.
Hmmm. I would say that it was merely inappropriate. It's still good music.
24 - jmm
Thanks for your response, Duane. It's appreciated and I do respect your opinion.
Maybe I'm just still fuming over the fact that I never got to see my favorite band live. I know a lot of "Nirvana haters" who did get to see them live. It was all over before I knew what had happened. I was always too busy or had other things on my mind. I will always regret it.
I do consider Kurt an icon, but not just for the music, and not necessarily in a good sense. It is more disturbing than that. If you ever want any insight into why this Kurt phenomenon persists, I don't know that I can provide the big answer everybody wants. I would be more than happy, though, to share the story of a kid whose life was eerily similar to the story of the kid depicted in the early part of "Heavier Than Heaven," the pre-Nirvana days. It took everything I had to keep from throwing up several times in that book. Even the pictures of Donald and Wendy look like two people I know very well.
Maybe it will add another small piece to the puzzle that nobody seems to be able to figure out. I would love nothing more than an hour or two with Charles Cross.
To quote Douglas,
peaceloveguidance
25 - visualsimplicity
Boy, did I come off as a Veddist? Well I'm not, nor am I a Nirvana-hater. And I do not deny that Cobain was a great songwriter/musician. I can even say that he was a genius in his own right. However, the matter is, the size of his iconic status is probably due largely in part to his early demise.
I'll back up my point with The Simpsons episode that aired just yesterday. (After all if it's shown on The Simpsons, it must be true!) Anyway, Marge was telling the story of Mozart and his sibling and how they were both talented composers. Mozart, who died young, upon his deathbed says to his sibling something to the extent of how he always worried that through the test of time, his work would pale in comparison to his sibling's but now that he was a genius dying young, he was garaunteed that his legendary status would outlive that of his sibling's. And there you have it.