The recent commotion over whether or not Coldplay ripped off guitar whiz Joe Satriani is nothing less than surprising and mystifying. My bewilderment has nothing to do with Coldplay however, but with Satriani, the guitar teacher-turned instrumental rock god.
Last week, after months of not hearing back from Coldplay (who are in the midst of a major world tour), he went to a federal court in Los Angeles and filed a copyright-infringement lawsuit against them, claiming that the English rock stars' #1 2008 hit song "Viva La Vida" lifted material from his own 2004 instrumental "If I Could Fly."
Both are great, midtempo songs, no question. I have listened to both countless times. But one is an orchestral, grandiose pop song with relatively little guitar work (“Viva”) while the other is straight up steady bass, drums, and wailing guitar-based instrumental rocker (“If I Could Fly”).
More to the point: there is practically no basis for this rather frivolous lawsuit. And coming from someone who knows the ins and outs of musical composition in rock better than most, it boggles the mind why Satriani thinks the Coldplay song sounds so much like his work. There are brief patterns of similarity in both songs too be sure, but no more than a few seconds worth. So without boring you (musicians or non-musicians) with a lot of advanced musical theory jargon and notation, I will try and breakdown the few similarities and big differences these two great songs have, differences that should've convinced Satch right away that there was nothing major to make a fuss about, let alone go to federal court over.
For Coldplay to be successfully sued, Satriani would have to prove the band had access to his work and that the band’s song in question sounds “substantially” similar to Satch’s composition, among other criteria. I (and Coldplay) would argue that “Viva” and “Fly” are “substantially” different tunes, and one of the first ways you can tell is that these two songs are written in totally different keys and ways. But even if one were to do what a YouTube user did – deceptively speed up “Viva La Vida” one half step and lower the original pitch of Satch’s song by six half steps to make them unnaturally sound alike – you would still hear that no more than 3-4 consecutive notes (C#-to-D-to-B-flat-to-B-flat) in Satch’s expressive riffs in “Fly” and Coldplay leader Chris Martin’s vocals in “Viva” seem to match up note-for-note at any time.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Condor
Are you seriously contending that Satriani launched a frivolous lawsuit without any background or due diligence applied? One would think that musicologists may have been involved, or perhaps copyists etc...
As for Coldplay not responding to questions regarding the suit due to "being mid-tour" I would have to take issue with the fact that they do have managment in place to handle inquiries whilst the lads are forging through the rigors of touring.
It's not that you may be correct in your opinion, but one would think that Satriani would have to have some back up to the allegations. Perhaps some scholarly insight those in the copywrite business associated with musical copywrite infringment.
Whatever the case may be, it would probably not be based on opinion, but fact.
Then again Geo Harrison lost the "She's So Fine/My Sweet Lord" lawsuit, based on two chords in a minor key. Wow.
2 - charlie
Condor, I was careful in how I presented all the facts as I new them. I simply mentioned as fact that Coldplay was in the midst of a major tour when Satriani originally called them about the plagiarism charges - I didn't say that was the reason they ignored Satch's questions but I'm sure if the band was sitting at home at the time or in a recording studio near home, you bet they would've responded sooner. Nonetheless, I did in fact say at the end of the article that Coldplay should have answered these charges sooner than they did (before Satriani went forward with the lawsuit).
As far as Satriani is concerned, usually I would defer to a superior, highly intelligent musician like him in cases like this. But after listening to every aspect of both his song and Coldplay's hit, and figuring out and playing all the guitar/bass parts, other than 3 successive notes in Chris Martin's vocals sounding influenced by 3 successive notes in "Fly's" 2 choruses (which is hard to believe, quite frankly), I can't for the life of me understand what led him to believe Coldplay "plagiarized" his work.
It's not like Coldplay is shy or afraid of acknowledging influences, like Travis, Kate Bush and Kraftwerk, whom they got permission from to sample on "Talk," a song from X&Y that remakes the main melody from Kraftwerk's "Computer Love".
Certainly Satch knows that songs of his like "Big Bad Moon" have 3 chords in succession that are influenced by all kinds of standard I-IV-V blues rock songs - and he would NEVER be accused of plagiarising those songs, would he? (Same goes with other blues-influenced tracks like Canned Heat's "On The Road Again," which is similar in formula to "Big Bad Moon")
Did Joe fall for the deceptive YouTube mix of "Viva" and "Fly"? I hope not (and doubt it). Did he really have a good listen to unedited versions of both tracks? I would think so but we just don't know. And until I hear or see specific examples of where Satriani thinks Coldplay ripped him off, I firmly believe Satriani made a major mistake in taking whatever he heard in Coldplay's music to federal court. It's stupid and just not worth it and I believe eventually, he will realize that too.
3 - Travis
This is completely offbase and i would venture to say that the author has no knowledge of musical theory
4 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
Having given your article the reading that was required and actually finding it rather hard to believe that a Satriani & Coldplay song could ever sound alike on any planet, I gave the two songs a listen and couldn't help myself at :59 in on "If I Could Fly" to comment that it is rather eerie that these two songs sound too much alike. Enough alike that I have to side with Satriani and his decision. Sure, Rock,Punk & Metal bands have had the same basic timing & structure for years but this craptastic band has made its living off of dancing the fine line by almost emulating U2's signature style & production for quite some time.
Go get'em Joe!
5 - JB
Listen to 'Hearts' by Marty Balin. He should sue Satriani
6 - Condor
Charlie,
To answer the "Big Bad Moon" statement, I would think that there's probably public domain at work with that riff. Least ways most old blues progressions must be, as they are used quite a bit.
Classical music is another genre' that is public domain and Yngwie is probably glad of it.
I wasn't countering your opinion piece, but I would question that Satriani lacked the backup to launch a lawsuit against any artist unless there was a research team behind him.
Additionally, that fact that Coldplay is on tour doesn't dismiss their managment/legal team from answering the mail. If in fact Coldplay used that "excuse" for a by-your-leave on not responding, they are either negligent, or should be seeking new management.
7 - charlie
Actually Travis, my musical theory training and knowledge helped me figure out the big differences between these two songs. So if you think you know better, back up your words with your own musical understanding of these tunes, my friend.
And Brian, though I disagree with you regarding this controversy, I do agree that Coldplay has emulated U2 more than a few times over the years. I would say however, that no one comes closer to ripping U2 off more than Remy Zero and their song "Save Me."
8 - charlie
Condor, we don't know the reasons that months went by without answering Satriani's plagiarizing requests, but if management is responsible, I totally agree with you that Coldplay ought to find a new manager.
9 - charlie
JB, I see where you're coming from but after the first couple of notes, that Balin track goes off in its own direction and therefore doesn't sound like "If I Could Fly." That was a nice find, though!
10 - brad laidman
There's a third more compelling contender
Creaky Boards and they claim Chris Martin was at one of their shows
but then again I'm still waiting for John Mayer to get sued for ripping off People Get Ready with that Change the World song
11 - dango
As a musician who has published music and been paid for it, it blows my mind that there is even a question here. What musicians copywrite has nothing to do with production or the sound. It's chords and melody on one half and lyrics on the other. Aside from that, there's not much to look at. And if thes two melodies aren't the same, and the underlying chords not sharing the same relationships within their given songs, then I don't know what is. It's so freakin' the same. Coldplay is going to lose this one, I'm sorry. I like them, and I've always thought Satriani too arrogant to be a fan of, but he's right. The man needs to get paid. You lift chords and melody, and set it to the same exact tempo, it's over.
12 - dango
ALso, wasn't it "19th Nervous Breakdown"? Check the chords. I did.
13 - Dr Dreadful
I'm still waiting for John Mayer to get sued for ripping off People Get Ready with that Change the World song
That's just ridiculous, and so is this whole thing. By the same logic, George Lucas would've had his ass sued off by whoever first put the phrase "long, long ago" to paper.
14 - El Bicho
Considering Lucas tried suing the U.S. government for using the term "Star Wars," he should have been, with Kurosawa as one of the plaintiffs.
15 - zingzing
isn't there another band simultaneously saying that coldplay stole this song from them? some band that played at cmj last year.
meh. the quicker coldplay is sued out of all reason to make music, the better of we'll all be. "yellow" was a good song for a moment when it came out. brian eno's taste is slipping.
16 - Dr Dreadful
"yellow" was a good song for a moment when it came out. brian eno's taste is slipping.
You know, whenever a band becomes successful there are always a few inverse music snobs who pop up and say things like, "Yeah, the Gypsy Kings did one or two OK songs, but they've sold out and their stuff's not very original. The Temporarily Homeless Junior Civil Servants did all that ten years ago."
Which is fine, and I'd love to check out the Temporarily Homeless Junior Civil Servants - I really would - except that some diligent research turns up that their one and only (demo) CD came out on the Memorex label in a limited pressing of 5 copies (all the singer's student grant would run to) and is only available at Syd and Toni's garage sale in Lansing, Michigan for 50c (or they'll throw it in for free if you buy four fridge magnets).
17 - zingzing
it's ranting time!
look, dreadful. i never liked coldplay, although i'll cop to thinking that yellow was ok. by the time i actually got around to listening to them, they were already leaving me cold. they're nothing but the more commercial concerns of radiohead and u2 (who've also gone on to do some pretty boring work themselves).
chris whatsit is a terribly trite lyricist, the music is hooky, but little else, and the attitude of the whole thing again brings on the worst of u2 and radiohead, without the musical innovation to back it up.
to say it shortly, coldplay is pretty awful. everything that makes pop/rock great is something they totally run into the ground while everything that makes pop/rock suck is something they seem hopelessly attracted to.
i really do like the occasional top-40 album or artist. i have no problem with such. but it's not a band becoming popular that makes me hate them. it's the reason they became popular--they play to everything blandly acceptable by the public.
i was genuinely happy the day that radiohead hit #1 earlier this year. it felt like a vindication. and the fact that they did it by actually stepping back towards the mainstream (along with a genius marketing plan) only pleased me more. they were going too far off, making these huge statement albums that could only lead them off into pink floyd's netherworld. radiohead is a rock band, a pop band. they got back to that, and it was a good thing.
so don't give me some shit about "inverse music snobbery" when all i say is that coldplay sucks. they do suck. they commit the CARDINAL SIN OF POP: they're boring.
i'm a music snob for far more snobbish reasons than that. [go pick up "the glow, pt 2" by microphones if you want to hear some really emotional guitar rock. it's got amazing production, stunning songwriting and genuine musicality that coldplay could never hope to match--there's your snobbery.]
and if you think coldplay is anywhere near the pinnacle of guitar pop, or even pop in general, or rock, or anything, you are sadly, sadly limited in your musical appreciation.
99.9999999999999% of the stuff out there will never touch the top 10, much less the top 40. so what do you think the chances are that there's something better out there that doesn't hit the billboard charts?
do the math.
18 - zingzing
speaking of math... i switched 10 and 40. sentence works better if you replace those numbers with each other. i'm sick. snotting on the keyboard.
19 - Dr Dreadful
Yes, zing2, it is rant time. Let's play.
I like Coldplay. (Although actually 'Yellow' is one of my least favorite of their songs.) I also like Regina Spektor, Matthew Good, Madonna, The Bravery, Enya, 4 Strings, U2, Portishead, Missy Higgins, Future Sound of London, Ted Hawkins, Dropkick Murphys, Paolo Nutini, Led Zeppelin, Massive Attack, Jack Johnson, The Verve, Saint Etienne, Matt Costa, Radiohead and bleeding Mozart. (No, that's not the name of a band (actually it probably is), it's the actual bloody composer.) Sometimes I like my music to be inventive. (Spektor does this with more panache than anyone.) Sometimes I like it to inspire. Sometimes I just want to be entertained. I don't particularly give a fuck if one artist has the temerity to use the same two notes in succession as another artist. There are only eight of the bastards - do the bloody math.
I did like Radiohead at their most experimental but I don't like bands who fuck around trying to be clever just for the sake of it.
So if that makes my musical appreciation limited, then bollocks to it.
20 - zingzing
yay!
i have to praise you for dropping saint etienne in there. god, how i love them.
i really don't care about coldplay vs satriani either. both of em suck. so the money's going somewhere, and some sucky artist is going to profit for some unknown reason. neither one of them deserves it.
i like radiohead at their most experimental as well. which would be kid a/amnesiac. two perfect albums. but i think their latest is just a perfectly wonderful, solid album. and it has "reckoner" on it, which is probably the greatest pop song of the year.
regina spektor, i think, is good. a little too cutesy (and maybe a little too specifically female...) for me to totally get behind. kate bush would wipe her ass with spektor's face, and make some musical brilliance out of it.
in the end, your "you just don't like them because they're popular" is just as reductive as my "your musical appreciation is limited."
still, mozart? psh. boring old fart. pre-20th century classical is just about the only musical style i have no love for. things moved so slowly then. there are, of course, exceptions to that rule... but music really took off when it could be recorded, especially in the west.
a friend of mine actually tells me that beethoven was just as renowned in his day for his improvisational skills as he was for his compositional skills. but we'll never hear that.
and led zepplin... ish. god, how i hate them. it's like some high school nightmare.
all that said, music, like most art forms, happens first (and best) far away from popular taste. it seeps in, and is watered down, on its way to the top. so, just as a vast majority of major label, top-40 stuff sucks... and just as a majority of underground music sucks... there's a spot in the underground where everything happens. if it's acceptable enough, it bubbles up.
it doesn't make anyone a snob if they really dig deep into something, finding diamonds, while they find out the surface is just a layer of awful, stinking sludge.
and not "sludge" in a good way. like fun house.
21 - Dr Dreadful
I forgot about Kate Bush. Yeah, she's terrific. I actually forgot about a whole lot of artists. I could have listed hundreds of names there, but I would have started sounding like a back catalog.
Mozart a boring old fart? He died at 34! How old are you? He was the Sid Vicious of his day.
Look, I've done my time in the trenches, been to songwriters' clubs (capacity: 6 plus your beer and they have to open the window so the artist can fit his guitar onstage), watched acts I enjoyed and never saw any of them come to anything. I'm always on the lookout for new gems but these days by the time I find them, they're usually signed to a major label. Too watered down by that time for your taste, probably.
22 - Dr Dreadful
And my only problem with Saint Etienne (and David Gray) is that they keep mentioning London landmarks in their songs. Makes me homesick.
Bah.
23 - charlie
Dango, name the exact chords and melodies Coldplay stole from Joe Satriani, and I'll retract this whole article. And as someone who has supposedly published music, you should know that production is a key aspect to one's sound and why people make comparisons of one artist to another. How else do people get their opinions about Coldplay sounding like U2? (It's the Edge-like chords/melodies PLUS the production of the songs in general, especially on the band's latest CD)
Point is, this case of copyright infringement isn't even close. And like I said in my article, the Creaky Boards claim is even more absurd. You have to realize that an artist's work has to be "substantially" similar to another artist's song to be guilty of plagiarizing, not just influenced by a previous tune or sort of sounding like it for a few seconds.
All you hear in "Viva" are very brief moments of similarities to Satriani, and they are coincidental at worst or a sign of Satriani influence (but not imitation) at best. But the latter doesn't make any sense at all since the tunes are written in completely different keys and the guitar work on both songs are totally different. [If you're going to copy Satriani, you would copy his guitar chops, and I don't think Coldplay's guitarist Johnny Buckland would even think for a second that he could play like Joe Satriani, let alone mimic him]
24 - zingzing
dreadful: "I'm always on the lookout for new gems but these days by the time I find them, they're usually signed to a major label. Too watered down by that time for your taste, probably."
probably. you're just looking in the wrong places if you can't find new music before they get to the majors. you're at a blog site right now. there are shitloads of music blogs out there, with a variety of tastes. some specialize in various genres, where they'll post the newest tracks (and sometimes, old gems). some post stuff that's long out of print--full albums even. all for free, so you don't have to throw money down the drain. (of course, you probably should throw some money at them at some point, or else the whole thing collapses.)
check out elbo.ws or any other music blog aggregator. hype machine is another. just type in an artist you like, and do that for a while, downloading tracks you don't have. eventually, you'll find yourself going to the same 5-10 blogs. then start looking at the other stuff they post. by this time, you know their taste at least somewhat lines up with your own, so you can trust their taste.
i just found a treasure trove of minimalist and classical music the other day. a few of the albums i already had, but most were artists i'd never heard of, on labels i'd never heard of.
the internet has changed the way we consume music. it's like a never-ending, all you can eat buffet. it's so easy to gorge yourself on music, and you can spend an entire day listening to music you've never heard, on labels that don't even exist anymore, of genres you've never even seen mentioned, from countries whose names have changed three times since the album came out. or you can just listen to a bunch of punk rock.
but for god's sake, don't let the major labels stuff coldplay and the like down your throat anymore. doing that is like only eating fast food or only watching hollywood blockbusters or drinking budweiser.
25 - JC Mosquito
Coldplay and Joe Satriani are each good at whatever it is each of them does, but I don't know if either of them play rock and roll anymore - or if they ever did at all. Really - can you imagine either of them pulling off a decent version of Sister Ray?
On a tangent - think how much Lou Reed could make suing musicians for playing one chord for more than 4 bars at a stretch if he could establish they're copping Metal Machine Music...... sorry, I didn't mean one chord - I meant NO chord.