First posted on Mark Is Cranky:
Does the concept of a band being "important" have meaning these days?
I don't normally sit around thinking about stuff like this but a few weeks ago Salon "Audiofile" columnist Thomas Bartlett started the debate by posing the question "who rules supreme?" to his readers. I especially like the "extra credit":
- Oh, and extra credit if you can give me a good explanation of what "important" actually means in this context. Does it mean influential? Good + influential? Or is it just imprecise bullshit critic-speak? (Guilty.)
The results ranged from the expected Radiohead/U2/Wilco/Outkast to the "wha?!" of Limp Bizkit to what I think is the 'correct' answer: nobody. I voted for 'nobody' because given the shifting entertainment landscape, it doesn't seem like any band is around long enough these days to be deemed 'important'.
Maybe I should get to what I think 'important' means (hopefully without using any 'bullshit critic-speak'.) I've always taken this to mean influential. A couple of things might get a band there: longevity and uniqueness. The interesting thing here is that neither of these attributes is sufficient to gaining that exalted influential status. This can be chalked up to the x-factor of the music industry: luck. Let's face it, we've all known of great bands who've remained undiscovered. Sometimes, that break never comes.
Some (but not all, so don't get all huffy!) important groups from the classic rock era? Jimi Hendrix (revolutionized rock guitar), the Beatles (revolutionized pop songwriting), Pink Floyd (solidified the psychedelic/space rock movement), the Rolling Stones (the British blues/rock foundation.) While Jimi and the Beatles weren't around for very long, their music was so fresh and unique that its long term influence was (and still is) obvious. Any band today trading in mid-tempo, atmospheric rock (hello, Godspeed!) must tip their cap to Gilmour, Waters & company. The Rolling Stones were early blues evangelizers whose long career set the bar high with a huge catalog of diversely-syled studio albums.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - DJRadiohead
Good column and interesting questions.
Maybe we won't know until more time has passed and we see what music stands the test of time. Sometimes we get in too big of a hurry to proclaim a band as the standard bearer for an era. History makes those calls.
2 - Aaron, Duke De Mondo
thought-provoking mark, but dig this, The Libertines are / were IMPORTANT. they started a musical revoloution, or at least ran to the forefront. They sparked mass guerilla gigging. They inspired legions of young bucks around the country who probably still haven't been signed. They broke the boundaries between audience and performer. A fella felt like part of it all, even though here he is, sitting in the northern ireland, whilst they're galivanting around London.
3 - Mark Runyon
There are definitely important bands around outside of the realm of critic-speak. I see these bands as being influential artists who open new avenues for the artists that come after them. Its much easier to spot a Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis or Jimi Hendrix in hindsight, but I'll bet you that seeing them perform in their time, you could see how their music would change the landscape of everything that would come after them. I think today's important bands are probably more on the fringe, not seeing radio/video play necessarily but finding their way into the right hands via word of mouth. I think Jeff Buckley is a prime example as every singer-songwriter I've talked to cites him as a major influence. Brian Eno and Aphex Twin would be perfect examples in the ambient space. But some important bands do find fame -- albeit awkwardly. Radiohead has certainly been an important band when you look at the span of their influence and the paths they've charted for progressive rock. It’s a hard thing to pick out because everyone was influenced by someone else so how do you see something that is truly revolutionary and something that will mark this spot in the musical timeline? Interesting question indeed.
4 - BRICKLAYER
Cattle Decapitation
5 - Marty Thau
Iggy, Velvet Underground, Clash, New York Dolls, Sex Pistols, Patti Smith, Television, Ramones, MC5. All of these were important and influential.
6 - Mark Saleski
yea, the Libertines have been on my radar for a while. i've gotta get Up The Bracket, i suppose.
7 - BRICKLAYER
When you are out shopping for the Liberitnes, try to pick up "Humanure" by Cattle Decapitation also.
8 - Mark Saleski
gees BRICK, are you trying to drive everybody out of my house (except me)?
first Converge, now this?
9 - BRICKLAYER
Mark, I of course wish to cause no familial strife for you. Now, if you want to clear the room, may I suggest anything by Mortician? Mrs. Bricklayer and friend of Bricklayer just shook their head in sad bemusement when I played them something from those fellows!
10 - Tom Johnson
TV On The Radio. These guys are so different, so intelligent. They manage to pick up where Talking Heads and Peter Gabriel left in about 1982 or so and carry the sound on, pushing it further into the minimal while still managing to keep it very catchy. There's a reason why they won the 2004 Shortlist prize: they're brilliant. They have a very bright, promising future.
11 - Mark Saleski
hmmm, i checked out one of their videos. pretty cool stuff. i do like the guitar. reminds me of Fripp a little.
12 - Aaron, Duke De Mondo
mark, now that the libs are disbanded, Babyshambles, fronted, of course, by libertines co-frontman Pete Doherty, are more than worthy of stepping up to the mantle. The rabid devotion they have inspired with not even an album to show for it surely suggests something special.
And they rock, also. See if you can get the video to Kilamangiro online anyplace.
13 - SFC SKI
THis may not be the place, but I have to put the Wildhearts on the list of "greatest bands you never heard". I came way late to the party, not buying their latest(and possibly last?) CD until last month, and I really wish they had had the exposure many lesser bands got. Everyone of the songs on "Wildhearts Must Be Destroyed" could be a hit in another, more perfect musical world, alas. I got into a similar unheralded great band, therapy?, 5 years to late too. Why is it so many crap bands (cough*Strokes*cough) are celebrated and hailed as the return of rock, when other bands have been slugging it out in the boozy, smoky beer-soaked trenches night after night, proving that rock never left.
TANJ, that's what it is, TANJ!
14 - Aaron, Duke De Mondo
SFC, you'll get no argument from me man. The Wildhearts are one of my favourite bands of all time. In fact, in the sidebar there you'll see a link to my interview with Ginger, the frontman. Incredible band.
15 - Avril LaLennon
two words
The Beatles
16 - gonzo marx
hurm...interesting Topic...one well worthy of discussion..thanx Mark for posing the Question so clearly..i believe yer raising some fine Points here..
full disclosure: i picked up a bass in 1976 after a Rush concert at the Felt Forum for the 2112 tour..i had seen the '74 "song Remains the Same" tour at MSG, and was NOT anywhere near as impressed
what makes a band Important..my personal definition stems from their Influence stemming from their work, both onstage and in the Studio...
to me the more Important bands are not neccessarily the ones that sold the most albums...tho sometimes they are...the Beatles spring to mind as a perfect example of both commercial success and sheer Importance to both culture and other musicians
since we are talking solely about Roc and Roll here..we will skip the Important figures in jazz and the blues that influenced many great Rockers and stick with those within the genre itself..
so let's start at the Beginning, shall we...
Disclaimer: the following are merely MY Opinions as to who and what are Important bands according to my own proclivities and sensibilities...
...your mileage may vary...
Chuck Berry and his two string leads, Bo Diddly with all he brought to the electric "table"...these were the early "guitar gods" that showed the Way..
Buddy Holly redefined it all at the early stages, possibly the first "punk" with his innate ability to break "conventions" in songwriting
the 60's brought us Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young..harmony and storytelling abundant
Frank Zappa and the MOthers of Invention showed brilliant musicianship that didn't have to take itself so seriously, introducing orchestral composition..influencing so many that followed
Santana...Carlos..possibly the smoothest guitar maestro then or now...latin beats and Rock's spirit
Cream...the prototype power trio...if i have to explain it then you ain't listening
the Jimi Hendrix experience...bombastic improv..redefining what an electric guitar could do
side note..the Beatles are in a class unto themselves (as would be Elvis) and have no need of my discussion
the Doors...bringing keyboards, jazz style guitar...rock solid beats and Morrison's poetry...again, redefining what a frontman/singer/poet could be...still influencing so many singers today
Steppenwolf...the coiners of the phrase "heavy metal"..powerful, sometimes political...forget what you might have heard on the radio...try the uncut version of Monster or the Pusher, and hear how relevant it still is today
the Who...the gods of Mod, Townshend is the prototypical master of rhythym, Entwhistle can be argued the first "bass god" for sheer innovation and mastery of the four string
we have crossed the boundries into the '70s
David Bowie...you want to know what pop will be like in 3 to 5 years, listen to the newest Bowie album..androgenous Parent of all things glam
Alice Cooper...offending parents from day one...brought a deep sense of theatre to Rock
Led Zeppelin...Page and Plant...every hair band of the 80's wanted to be them...and failed miserably
Rush...couple intricate music with thoughtful poetry, defy all conventions of what radio friendly tracks could be...and then influence so many Players that came after, showed that you could play in something other than 4/4 time , 120 beats per minute and still Rock the house, introduced the 3 and 7 count times to many musicians...if you don't like these guys work, odds are you like those that listened to them...nuff said?
Motorhead...that cross between metal and punk...the founding Fathers of all things FAST!!
so many great bands after have said that Motorhead and Rush turned them on to playing well
many more here...i'm not leaving them out..just hitting the highlights to me
the "punks"..the Ramones, Iggy Pop and the Stooges, the Sex Pistols...all else was imitation and pose...these guys were for real (IMHO)
the 80's came...and not much here to see...notice i am leaving the "pop" types out of it
Elvis Costello and the Attractions...My Aim is True changed everything,,,their performance on SNL, refusing to play one of their more mainstram songs, instead playing Radio,Radio heralded the death of punk and the beginning of New Wave..for that, they did not get airplay in the US for many years..
the '90s brought about many changes...
one band had been in the "hair" contingent...took some time off, and found real Metal...Pantera redefined a sound and a sensibility that had only been seen "underground" for years and jammed it into your face with spikes on it...the best thing to come out of texas since Buddy Holly...
mix Dylan's protest and social commentary...a funky time with snap and pop bass line, things nobody thought could be done on a guitar...and you will Rage Against the Machine
and finally a band that plays still..whom, to me, are the Important band right now, second to no other..and who many musicians will claim as their Ispiration in the next generations...
pregressive sound, industrial at times...but more melodic than your Ministry et all...shifting times and motif with the wind of lyrical direction..poetry to make you think and cringe at times...
Tool stands beyond all others for scratching my sonic itch
just a sampling from my own thoughts of Rock...and what's Important
Excelsior!
17 - Aaron, Duke De Mondo
sometimes it takes 20 years or more before you realise how influencial an act were. For example, all this ska-pop-punk tomfoolery has direct links to The Specials, yet if you'd thought about this, say, ten years ago, chances are The Specials would be far from a fellas mind.
And i can't belive no-one's mentioned GG Allin.
18 - Eric Olsen
great post and thread, thanks Mark and all!
I'd say there are two distinctions to make regarding "important": there is important to music history, or put another way, to the culture, and this takes time to assess. I remember 10 years ago someone telling me Radiohead would go to the Rock Hall and I thought they were nuts - now it doesn't sound so crazy.
But the other form is personal, and everyday thousands, or millions, or individuals find someone, or a song, or an album that is important to them, and that counts for a lot too.
19 - gonzo marx
heh
{8^P~~~~~~~~
Excelsior!
20 - Eric Olsen
sorry GM, no insult intended - I was more focused on the "what" rather than the "who" at the moment
21 - gonzo marx
heh..i know..geeez..i guess yer leg came off in my hand when i was pulling it..
Excelsior!
22 - Aaron, Duke De Mondo
"But the other form is personal, and everyday thousands, or millions, or individuals find someone, or a song, or an album that is important to them, and that counts for a lot too."
I agree, Eric. Probably most folks couldn't care less about The Libertines or Selfish Cunt (although certainly a lot DO care about them), but nonetheless i find myself compelled by their every stumble.
23 - Eric Berlin
I like to think that an artist like Beck is important: reinventing genre, breathing like into dead/obscure areas of music while maintaining a sense of humor and without making fun of the music he's vamping on (he seems to be getting more serious as he matures, but that's a different story). Whether he'll begin any kind of "movement" is also another story, but I think he defines what can be done with music in the modern age.
I think a guy like Wyclef Jean falls into this model at times. I loved The Carnival but have not enjoyed his more recent stuff as much.
Really interesting post -- great stuff.
Agree with you on The Doors, gonzo. But I probably don't count with them as they've always been one of my faves.
24 - crooked spine
I've actually thought a lot about this. My personal feeling is, there are no more important bands. Haven't been for about 30 years. That's not to say there aren't any good bands, because there's still plenty of 'em. But the music industry is like a house that was built decades ago. You can paint it, you can decorate it, you can enhance it, but you didn't help build it.
Just imagine what the scene was like in 1965, when Dylan was going electric. When the Stones were putting fuzz guitar and teen angst into "Satisfaction." When the Beatles were starting to get trippy with Rubber Soul. Now, those were groundbreaking days. Nothing today comes even remotely close.
25 - Aaron, Duke De Mondo
crooked, perhaps there are folks seeing The Others playing a gig in a train, as they did recently, and thinking that right there is just as groundbreaking.