I once watched an interview with the Grateful Dead’s Jerry Garcia, in which he said something along the lines of “The Dead are like black licorice – you either love it or hate it – there’s not much middle ground.”
The same can be said for progressive rock. Many people perceive it to be bombastic, pretentious, and overwrought, and detest it for its symphonic ambitions. Others love the complex compositions, poetic lyrical complexity, and operatic story lines. I am firmly in the second camp, though I can understand the point of view of the first.
One of the first albums I ever owned was Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon. I received it at age eleven in 1973 from my English grandmother for Christmas – it was all the rage in England at the time. I was enthralled by Floyd’s use of unconventional instrumentation – helicopters and clock chimes were things I had not previously heard in music - and what I perceived as their visionary lyrics (though I probably didn’t think of it in those terms) held me in sway. At about the same time, Yes’ Roundabout was on the radio, and I saved enough allowance and chore money to purchase the Fragile album, and I was hooked on this new kind of music. More Floyd and Yes followed, along with Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Curved Air, early Genesis, Rush, King Crimson and eventually Frank Zappa and Captain Beefheart.
As I grew and matured, I left prog rock behind for a while, delving into the blues and blues-rock, becoming entranced with Peter Green’s Fleetwood Mac, the Allman Brothers, Cream, Muddy Waters and especially Michael Bloomfield. I would return occasionally to the flights of fancy and sci-fi/fantasy illusions of Tales from Topographic Oceans or Air Cut, but the thrust of my musical interest was trying to emulate Clapton, Bloomfield and Peter Green on the guitar (never very successfully, I must admit.)
When I found the Grateful Dead and their peculiar, distinctly American blend of psychedelia and folk music, I was again hooked, and returned to the music of my younger days. Pink Floyd, Yes, ELP and the trippier, more experimental albums of the Dead dominated the time on my turntable, though I never again renewed my earlier love for Rush, as Geddy Lee’s screeching, whining voice drowned out the excellent guitar of Alex Lifeson and the stunning drumming of Neil Peart. Like most adolescent boys, I became a teeny bopper for a while, liking whatever was currently on the radio, but thankfully that phase passed fairly rapidly as my knowledge of music theory and history grew.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - DJRadiohead
Greatest ever might be shooting a bit high but they are fantastic musicians. Mike Portnoy might be the best living drummer.
2 - Eric Olsen
excellent review T, but the answer to your opening quesion is "no" from my perspective
3 - Taloran
Thanks for the comments, Eric. Can you expand on your perspective a bit?
Obviously, they haven't and probably won't sell as many recordings as Pink Floyd (then again, who has, in any genre? Can count 'em on one hand) or Yes. But the musicianship is up there with any other prog rock band, the songwriting is excellent, the tightness of the band and interplay between the musicians is incredible, and they've got the vocals all over their peers.
4 - Mark Saleski
hmmm...well, there's prog and then there's prog.
i don't see bands like Dream Theatre being like Pink Floyd or Yes.
they're so metal that they seem like compeltely different genres.
but that's just me.
5 - Taloran
Mark, to be honest, I don't see Yes, Floyd, ELP, King Crimson or Rush being much like one another at all. Yet they are all lumped in to one genre together. If the genre were to be called "operatic, dreamlike fantasy rock" rather than simply "progressive rock" then Dream Theater would certainly fit, despite their heavier edge.
I didn't coin the terminology.
6 - ND
I&W is their best work IMO. I too was floored after listening to that one album. But many of the others are a bit confusing to listen to - unlike Floyd, who have a lot of good tracks in all studio albums (except Ummagumma). DT's metallic sound makes me like them much more than Rush. However, no one can match Floyd. The Beatles' psychedelic numbers are too few.
If you want something slower (blues) try Ballads & Blues - the best of Gary Moore.
7 - Taloran
I'm a huge Gary Moore fan - my first introduction to him was when "Still Got the Blues" was briefly popular on the radio in 1984 (?). I have about eight of his CDs. And like Dream Theater being called prog rock, Gary Moore, despite his metal leanings (he recorded After the War with Ozzy on vocals) is still considered a blues guitarist.
8 - Tom Johnson
Rush is hardly a prog-rock band. They may have had a few entries into that genre, but by and large they are just a rock band, and one of the best at that.
Dream Theater is so far from being "the best" that I can't believe it's even being considered. The majority of their catalog following Falling Into Infinity consists of lifted-riffs from other better bands (Tool and Metallica most frequently, along with plenty of Pink Floyd, Genesis, Yes, and on this last album, a complete rip-off of Muse's "Stockholm Syndrome.") This is an embarassing tendency that has grown into an alarming lack of any originality at all in the past three albums. This fact alone removes them from any consideration as "the best" of anything except maybe theft.
Genesis, Yes, and King Crimson are undoubtedly the leaders of prog (even though I actually balk at the inclusion of Crimson, because they're really more jazz-rock than anything else, at least after the first two albums.) One band that should be counted as highly as Genesis and Yes is Gentle Giant, whose music I've only recently gotten into. What took me so long, I can't say, but the wait was certainly rewarding. These guys take off, from a "sounds like" standpoint, from the odd jazzy noodling of King Crimson's Islands, and they just run with it. Truly an incredible band with musicians that blow away Yes and Genesis, great as they are - but those two bands just never reach the level of complexity and beauty that I'm finding in Gentle Giant's music. HIGHLY recommended to check out if somehow you were ig'nant like me for so long.
9 - Taloran
I respectfully disagree with quite a bit of what Tom Johnson says in comment 8.
Genesis was great through the first studio album without Peter Gabriel, Trick of the Tail. The first few albums following were marginal, and beginning with 1980's Duke, they went to complete pop claptrap. Abacab was a spit in the eye to the masterful earlier work by the band.
In my opinion, Octopus was Gentle Giant's finest hour. They produced several wonderful albums in the prog rock vein, and I'm somewhat surprised at myself that I neglected to mention them in my original post. However, like Genesis, they devolved into a predictable, 4/4, 3-chord pop band by the time of the hideous Giant for a Day in 1978. But despite their efforts, the pop drivel of Giant for a Day didn't have the catchiness of Genesis' "Misunderstanding" or "No Reply at All".
Rush can certainly be defined as a rock band, but the stuff I was into as a youngster was 2112, A Farewell to Kings, and Hemispheres, all of which came out one after the other during the zenith of my prog-rock listening, and which certainly fit into the prog rock mold. I therefore think of them as a prog band, whether or not the label fits their larger catalog. As I wrote above, I stopped listening to them due to Geddy Lee's insufferable vocals. Perhaps describing them as a rock band with a prog rock period would be more precise?
Obviously, Tom and I disagree on Dream Theater, and that's fair enough. I can respect his opinion while disagreeing with it.
10 - Paul Roy
DT are now on their third keyboardist. Kevin Moore left after their second album awake, and was a huge loss in my opinion. Jordan Rudess may be technically better, but I hate his sound. Dream Theater is certainly the best prog-metal band, but probably not prog-rock.
11 - John Summerhill
I have seen almost all the prog-rock bands at least twice and sometimes more than 10 times (since about 1970). I am sorry, but Dream Theatre is one of the worst sounding bands I have heard. Not at all in the class of Genesis, ELP, King Crimson, Gentle Giant,The Strawbs, YES. In fact, I would say it is a sick joke to even put them in the same category.
12 - Eric Olsen
Tal, I think timing is very important, even if it isn't fair, and the time of prog rock was the late'60s into the mid-'70s, after that it lost the popular imagination. In addition, I think the freshness of the time did make for the best of the genre, which holds up until today: the best of Yes, ELP, Moody Blues, Nektar, Caravan, Gentle Giant, PFM, etc etc sounds better to me than anything from the genre since.
I wouldn't call Pink Floyd prog rock - I see them as first totally Brit psychedelia, then space rock
13 - Joe Battista
Dream Theater are great musicians, but not a great band. I don't enjoy listening to them the way I do bands like Yes or Alan Parsons. They just don't have a great catalog of songs to fall back on.
14 - Tan The Man
Must agree with Joe.
15 - Shark
What EricO said.
And...
I have a few suggestions (two of which I suggested Here.)
The Best "Prog Rock" Band Ever?
1) Soft Machine (okay, maybe prog, but not rock...) Probably cited as a major influence by more 'progressive' musicians than any band in history. Also had the greatest drummer in rock history: Robert Wyatt. There is no debate here, btw. heh.
2) National Health - (bastard sons of Soft Machine!) They are the best musicians among all the names you folks have tossed out -- w/out a doubt. Also -- the best composers in the genre. We have a winner! (And it ain't Yes or the King Crimson... they play fumbling, simplistic kiddie music compared to Nat. Health)
3) Touch (Don Gallucci) - one of the most "progressive rock" albums ever made -- I call it 'the American Sgt. Pepper" -- check it out on the link provided above.
16 - Eric Olsen
yes, there is some Soft Machine I really like, but some solo Robert Wyatt, and especially, Kevin Ayers I like even more
17 - Shark
re: solo Robert Wyatt
Eric, I love you, maaaaan!
Wyatt's last CD, 'Cuckooland', might be his best solo CD ever.
I think it's a subtle masterpiece (but it takes multiple listenings for that to sink in).
re. Kevin Ayers --
How 'bout playin' with John Cale, Nico, & Brian Eno (June 1, 1974)? Sorta the "Magnificent Seven" cast of Brit prog rock.
Ah, memories!
18 - Brian Garrepy
Hmmm.... How do I start? I do appreciate Talorans review of prog rock but I have to say that Dream Theater isn't necessarily rock... With most misconceptions of this band, I can see that alot of these people that have made comments(and I do appreciate their love of music)never delved into the realm of metal.Except for one person's comment on theft of Metallica's riffs. (Metallica hasn't come out with a good album since "Master" and a far from an example that I would use to summon up DT's Legacy) Anyways, When Dream Theater arose with "When Dream and Day Unite" in 1989, The sound seemed to be heavily influenced by Watchtower(the band) and Fates Warning. But, it was the firing of their first singer which brought James Labrie(From Canada) into the picture with their groundbreaking second release.... My point?? There was nothing like it...EVER!! While everyone was napping with such vile waste of radio like Nirvana... DT pioneered a new vision of Metal with their passion for the Prog jondra.(In which they have played with some of the greats)Since then they have put out ALOT of brilliant work and are one of the best live bands to grace the planet...I feel that if more people came at this topic from the Metal forum they could see alittle more.
Thank you Taloran for bringing up such a passionate topic.
Here's some bands I would recommend if you have the open ears for it:
Spock's Beard-"Snow"
Opeth-"Blackwater Park"
Ayreon-"The Human Equation"
Magellan-"Hundred Year Flood"
Fates Warning-"Perfect Symmetry"
Athiest-"Unquestionable Prescence"
Death-"Symbolic"
WatchTower-"Energetic Disassembly"
IronChrist-"Getting the most out of your extinction"
19 - Taloran
Evidently, there is considerable disagreement with my opinion, and even amongst the opinions of the commenters herein. Just about every opinion-oriented post I've made on Blogcritics over the years has met with vehement opposition, so I'm accustomed to it, and even welcome it. This one seems to have kicked the hornet's nest nicely. I've become quite used to those Blogcritics who seem to believe "my opinion is fact, and since yours is different, it is obviously wrong." But several of the comments made since I posted this make me chuckle with their contrariness to each other.
Mark Saleski mentions that Dream Theater is too metal to be considered prog rock. Later, Shark says Soft Machine is the best prog rock band ever, but then says they're prog but not rock. I think for the purposes of this discussion it would be fair to just call them all prog, drop the rock, and lump them together in one broad genre. People will probably argue with that as well.
Jon Summerhill, speaking about live performance, says Dream Theater is "one of the worst sounding bands ever." Brian Garrepy directly contradicts him, saying they're "one of the best live bands to grace the planet." I haven't seen them live, so have no opinion on this particular matter.
Tom Johnson says that Dream Theater has produced crap since Falling Into Infinity, their 5th studio album. He then goes on to say that Genesis, Gentle Giant, and King Crimson are "undoubtedly the leaders of prog," but admits that Crimson only did two prog albums. In my opinion, Genesis only recorded four better-than-decent studio albums over four years, from '71's Nursery Cryme to the '76 release Trick of the Tail (recorded in '75), which makes Dream Theater the longer-lived prog band of the two, if both Tom's opinion of DT's music after Falling and my opinion of Genesis' after Trick are correct. Whether or not the studio albums of Genesis, after Trick, were good (I think they suck), they certainly weren't prog. Gentle Giant stayed in the prog vein and recorded good stuff for about the same period of time, from their self-titled 1970 debut to 1975's Freehand. After that their studio stuff is poor or worse, in my opinion. And no amount of argument will convince me that the miserable Giant for a Day is either listenable or prog. I still have it on vinyl, and would put it on my turntable to confirm my opinion, but can't bear the thought of listening to that horrible crap. Maybe I'll put on Octopus instead.
(Note - I went to Allmusic.com to check dates and album numbers for the immediately preceding paragraph.)
20 - Sean
I had a similar reaction to the band Porcupine Tree when I discovered their CD In Absentia a couple years ago (Dream Theater has been a favorite going back to the late 80's). Based on your preferences and descriptions I think Porcupine Tree will really blow your mind if they are not aready on your radar.
Sean
21 - Mark Saleski
as you said taloran, you didn't coin the terminology.
we're all here talking about several different kinds of music all labeled 'prog'.
22 - Taloran
I misquoted Tom Johnson in comment 19. He said "Genesis, Yes, and King Crimson are undoubtedly the leaders of prog", not "Genesis, Gentle Giant, and King Crimson" as I originally quoted. He then said Gentle Giant "should be counted as highly."
I apologize for the misquote.
23 - Eric Berlin
Dream Theater hails from my homeland of Long Island, New York. I grew up with a bunch of guys weaned on metal (hair and heavy varieties both) who worship the ground that DT walks on.
It's interesting to think another long standing Long Island hero, Billy Joel. A transition from Joel to Dream Theater is a fairly stark one -- both rank high on the musicianship scale, however.
24 - Brian Garrepy
Well, It's nice for once to see a group of people who have actually listened to this style of music and actually have an opinion.... I do feel though that because the aforementioned(?) bands are actually no longer producing work(with exception to Yes)that DT is actually doing a great job pushing this type of music into the future... and supporting bands that have the same style. Porcupine Tree's Absentia was a great album that blended the eccentric with a nice pop sense(easy on the ears) but their new album kinda leaves you wanting more...The cool thing is that Steve Wilson(Vocals-Porcupine Tree) produced Opeth's "Blackwater Park" as well as the two newer cd's(drawing a blank). Magellan has some great work and on "Hundred Year Flood", Ian Anderson played an awesome flute solo.(Suprisingly, no one has mentioned Jethro Tull in this discussion)They also have played with some excellent musicians in the prog genre.
http://www.magellanweb.com/magband.htm
Spock's Beard was definately a band that held true to the prog style and if you haven't heard "Snow" then you have missed out.But, My last point would have to, again, be that DT has a huge influence from Prog Rock but not as big as the metal scene, so I disagree that we should lump them all together because then noone gets the credit. Watchtower is considered to be the fathers of this type of fusion(No credit) as well as Fates Warning.... Still these two bands never make it in any Top 10 or even acknowleged in Rock history!! So... Hopefully, Because DT has the ability to make the Dramatic,Symphonyesque type of prog that keeps them popular maybe that will shine the light on other bands that don't get the spotlight... Even Taloran said,"How I’d missed this brilliant music for the 13 years since its release I couldn’t begin to fathom."
25 - Brian Garrepy
One last thing.... in 1991, Athiest came out with their CD,"Unquestionable Prescence" and if you thought DT's "I.A.W." was brilliant...You surely missed out on a timeles cd that will probably never be matched again. Granted it was heavier but it truley showed pro-musician craftsmanship in the fusion sense....
Thanks...Maybe I will catch ya guys later