I like this album a lot. It is far better than the previous two. They have lost their "edge" but so have most of us who are now in our thirties with kids. There's nothing I hate more than the "angry white boy" music that seems to dominate every version of so called rock stations.
SFBM is no their best ever, but I like all but a couple of songs.
27 -
Yomama
Jun 11, 2006 at 5:54 pm
I think the new cd is decent, just different. However, one thing is obvious djradiohead. You don't know much about LIVE. I mean, three or four decent songs since Copper? That's just musically ignorant.
Lakini's Juice, Gas Hed Goes west, turn my Head were all very good songs from Samadhi. Voodoo Lady, Where Fishes go and the lyrical Masterpiece They Stood Up For Love from The Distance were also all very good songs as well as The Dolphin's Cry, arguably. Overcome from V was a pretty good song considering it WASN'T written for 9/11 and Like I Do from Birds of Pray is arguably the most rocking song LIVE has ever done. Gracey is STELLAR in that song.
This new cd is just different. But there are high points such as Wings, Show, Sofia and Night of Nights. But I do agree that they have regressed musically.
Yomama, thanks for your comments. When I said three or four decent songs, I didn't actually count. There might have been five. It was a bit of exaggeration although I have to say I disagree with some of the tunes you highlight so maybe I was right and you are the one suffering from some musical ignorance. You never know.
Even if we use your list, to get to the point where only two or three songs per album are worth listening to is a pretty steep decline.
29 -
Yomama
Jun 13, 2006 at 11:29 am
Actually, I gave that comment just as an example to contradict you.
If you really wanna face fact dj, The Distance To Here is probaly the most complete album LIVE has made. If you want confirmation of this, visit LIVE fansites and see what hardcore fans think. You'll see that most think TDTH is better then Throwing Copper.
I see nothing wrong with ANY of the songs I highlighted. Which leads me to believe where the ignorance truly lies. Evident by the biased and uneducated comments in your blog.
I do agree however that the decline since the Distance has been pretty steep though. IF YOU ARE A ROCK FAN. People just can't accept that they've changed and seem to wanna hang around and whine about it. It's the epitomy of what's wrong with today's generation of music listeners. Y'all wanna hear the same crap over and over and over again ala Nickelback and The Red Hot Chili Peppers. All the music sounds the same.
Live have experimented from cd to cd and that deserves commendation and some amount of respect. Sure the music may not be as good but what bands do have that quality nowadays? U2? NO! Pearl Jam? NO!Metallica? NO! REM? NO!
So get over it already even. This new cd is much better then their last two. Birds Of Pray and V were pretty much unlistenable to me but I respected them for trying something different each time.
But again, to be sarcastic and say "ok 5 songs then" just shows you're another uneducated music fan who just wants to hear the same things from bands over and over again. Well, grow up. Bands like LIVE and Pearl Jam are 10 years older now and the music they make is different.
You're not allowing yourself to be objective for this reason and it's really a shame. Because you are misinforming people and possibly preventing them from buying music they might enjoy.
The ignorance here is your eagerness to make wild assumptions about me and my musical tastes.
I believe if a poll of music fans, Live fans, and music critics was undertaken Copper would be the more popular and more praised album each and every time. I don't accept your contention here. I don't think it's more complete and I don't think it's higher quality.
Just because I didn't like subpar Live albums (subpar by your own admission) doesn't mean I love Nickelback or want to hear the same thing over again. I want to hear something good. Live could make an album of Bolivian polka music. That'd be different but would it be any good? My guess is probably not. Live is free to change anytime they want. Change for change sake isn't virtuous. Change for the better is good. Change for the worse is less.
As for objectivity, how objective are you? You don't strike me as any more or less objective than I am. Of course YOU don't see anything wrong with the tunes you selected. So because you don't see anything wrong with them that ends the discussion? I don't think so. You like those songs? Fine by me but I'm not buying off on all of them.
I listened to Black Mountain numerous times and gave an honest assessment. An assessment shared by some and not by others. Maybe we're all the ignorant ones and you found the only enlightened path. Yes, I'm sure that's it.
31 -
Yomama
Jun 13, 2006 at 12:50 pm
You are the one who said and I quote "so maybe I was right and you are the one suffering from some musical ignorance." So don't try and turn it around on me here.
I don't care what songs you buy in to really. Fact is that 3 of those songs were number one hits and the rest are damn good songs. That's not just my opinion neither but the opinion of thousands of LIVE fans.
Despite what you believe, you could take a poll of longtime, hardcore LIVE fans and you would be wrong pal. TDTH would rule over Throwing Copper EVERY SINGLE TIME. I know this because I have witnessed this same poll a hundred times if not more. I have not seen one where Throwing Copper has won. I've seen a few where SS and MJ have won but NEVER TC. Just because it was the most popular in the publics eye, doesn't make it better. Just because critics acclaim it more, doesn't make it better. Most of these critics nowadays know sweet piss all about structure, creativity or well written lyrics. They give a cd one or two listens and pass judgment and that method borders on inane and idiotic.
In the end, it doesn't really matter what you think. go tell any longtime LIVE fan that songs such as Where Fishes Go, Feel The Quiet River Rage, Voodoo Lady, The Dolphin's Cry, Lakini's Juice, Turn My Head, They Stood Up For Love, Overcome, Like I Do, Gas Hed Goes West or Face and Ghost are subpar songs and they'll laugh in your face. FACT is, they're better then 90 percent of the music out there nowadays.
So you stay stuck in your Throwing copper era and keep giving your useless subjective opinions. Because that's what they are, useless. I've said what I have to say to you and can't be bothered wasting another minute on somebody so obviously ignorant, biased and uneducated in the realm of music.
Funny that you say Just because it was the most popular in the publics eye, doesn't make it better yet point out that three of the songs you like were #1 hits. Sounds to me like you want it both ways. Sounds to me like you are only interested in justifying your view and you cite alleged fan polls that may or may not exist and may or may not be representative. Pal, I am married to a Live fan who finds Copper to be their best album. I have talked to many other people who share this opinion. Does that mean we're right? Maybe not. It does mean, however, there are a lot of people who see things differently than you do. So there it is. You see it one way, other people see it the other. I am still not convinced more people wouldn't prefer Throwing Copper. I know- true Live fans, right? Who's defining that? I guess if we let you do the picking you will get your answer.
It sounds to me that you are mostly interested in having your opinions validated. So be my guest. Go places where no one will ever say anything critical about what you like and pat yourself on the back for being so much more knowledgeable about music than everyone else. Yes, all the critics who disagree with you are obviously stupid and know less about music than you do.
The word ignorant first surfaced in your post. The namecalling has come from your direction- that's on you.
Trust me, "most people," ie, the general public, are going to recognize Throwing Copper as Live's big album. They may not even be aware of anything else of theirs. I can bear witness to this as I saw them play at a New Year's Eve concert a couple years back that was open to the general public at a huge gathering (200,000 people.) The crowd's reaction to songs they didn't know (anything not on TC) ranged from complete disinterest to downright hostility (albeit drunken hostility, but still . . . ) It was a truly terrible concert, and it had nothing to do with the band, who did the best they could. Whoever their manager is needs to be fired or he needs to start booking them to play actual concerts instead of these general public concerts and following baseball games - these are TERRIBLE venues and that's ALL they've had in Phoenix in the past 5 years or so.
I've said it before and I'm saying it again: fans are their own entity. They have nothing to do with the general public. Their interests in a band are completely different and sometimes their tastes run completely at odds with the public, as Yomama's information about polls indicates. In other words, fans overwhelming love of a band is what makes them irrelevent to people who are just looking for "good music." Fans are willing to listen to something 6, 8, 10 times in order to find something redeeming about a song or an album and then fall in love with it. Most people simply are not. I would say that most people who are even considering buying a new Live album today fall into the borderline "fan" category. They still have some general market interest, but they're slipping into that territory where you probably have to be "into" the band to really know and care that they have new music out.
34 -
Guppusmaximus
Jun 13, 2006 at 1:21 pm
All I have to say is that if this album doesn't smell like retirement pay, especially with the appearance on American Idol, then I am musically ignorant as well. Unfortunately, Secret Samahdi was Live's last powerful CD. Pearl Jam hasn't been a good benchmark since .Vs and RHCP's newest release is so full of filler that I feel like I could just piss myself from listening to it.
Granted DJRadiohead and I haven't always seen "eye to eye", I can say that he is quite knowledgeable in the realm of music and is "Spot on" with his review of this dismal release from a band I used to like.
35 -
Yomama
Jun 13, 2006 at 6:14 pm
Good one dj!!! Because I'm one of those people that finds Throwing Copper to be their best work followed by Mental Jewelry. If I was trying to justify anything, it would be that opinion wouldn't it?
I can be objective as far as music goes. With your sarcasm and self professed "exaggerations," it's obvious you can't be.
And to be completely honest, I do know quite a bit more about music then the average person and probably a hell of a lot more than most critics. Has nothing to do with whether or not they disagree with me. It has to do with how much they actually know about music itself, which in my experience is very little.
Seems like you are the one who wants it both ways pal. Lining up your clever little innuendos that insinuate I'm the one whose opinion counts most. Funny how that's what I see in little weasals like you.
36 -
Yomama
Jun 13, 2006 at 6:29 pm
For example, where are the catchy guitar "licks" in Show? Because there are none. The reverb is so high over the chorus that it's just a mash of I don't know what. It drowns out the entire band including Ed.
And where is the "lecturing" in Love Shines? Baffles me when people ramble sewage like that.
"On a crystal clear blue morning,
there is a peace that only you can know.
It is truth and love and it is always there, even when you fall down....Love Shines"
What a lecture!!!
He's singing a song to his daughters you idiot. Have some respect for it.
The fact that you're knocking a man for something obviously important to him shows you are EXACTLY that. Same with your assumptions about Sophia which has NOTHING to do with his daughter. You focus on that instead of recognizing that it's actually a very good song and probably offers the most on the album as far as the funky chord progression on guitar and the funky little solo near the end that is virtually non existent on the rest of the cd.
I could go on and on but it's obvious you're one of those critics I spoke of above. Musically ignorant.
37 -
Liam
Jul 06, 2006 at 11:16 am
I just like to add my take on the songs...
I'm pretty sure that the song 'Get Ready' is about a mass spiritual transformation in the world which is in the process of occuring. Ed has been writing about this theme for sometime now I beleive and it's more prevalent on this album than any other...
So in view of that it's really not cheesy at all...
Recently I went to a Live concert and their latest albums have definitely gone down hill, but their concerts sure haven't. It was really amazing and intense. They performed a improv song, which was rocking. Totally different from their last three albums. Also, they played Mirror song, which is from Mental Jewelry, and that kicked some major ass. Ed, even though it doesnt show on their albums because of his persistence of singing in falsetto, has such a great range of his vocals. For example: Live's cover of I Walk the Line.
Lakini's Juice is definitlely one of my favorite songs ever, which was on Secret Samadhi. I do hope they get their shit together and start playing some worthwhile songs, but I suppose that is doubtful. I will always be grateful for their first four albums.
Article comments
26 - Michael
I like this album a lot. It is far better than the previous two. They have lost their "edge" but so have most of us who are now in our thirties with kids. There's nothing I hate more than the "angry white boy" music that seems to dominate every version of so called rock stations.
SFBM is no their best ever, but I like all but a couple of songs.
27 - Yomama
I think the new cd is decent, just different. However, one thing is obvious djradiohead. You don't know much about LIVE. I mean, three or four decent songs since Copper? That's just musically ignorant.
Lakini's Juice, Gas Hed Goes west, turn my Head were all very good songs from Samadhi. Voodoo Lady, Where Fishes go and the lyrical Masterpiece They Stood Up For Love from The Distance were also all very good songs as well as The Dolphin's Cry, arguably. Overcome from V was a pretty good song considering it WASN'T written for 9/11 and Like I Do from Birds of Pray is arguably the most rocking song LIVE has ever done. Gracey is STELLAR in that song.
This new cd is just different. But there are high points such as Wings, Show, Sofia and Night of Nights. But I do agree that they have regressed musically.
28 - DJRadiohead
Yomama, thanks for your comments. When I said three or four decent songs, I didn't actually count. There might have been five. It was a bit of exaggeration although I have to say I disagree with some of the tunes you highlight so maybe I was right and you are the one suffering from some musical ignorance. You never know.
Even if we use your list, to get to the point where only two or three songs per album are worth listening to is a pretty steep decline.
29 - Yomama
Actually, I gave that comment just as an example to contradict you.
If you really wanna face fact dj, The Distance To Here is probaly the most complete album LIVE has made. If you want confirmation of this, visit LIVE fansites and see what hardcore fans think. You'll see that most think TDTH is better then Throwing Copper.
I see nothing wrong with ANY of the songs I highlighted. Which leads me to believe where the ignorance truly lies. Evident by the biased and uneducated comments in your blog.
I do agree however that the decline since the Distance has been pretty steep though. IF YOU ARE A ROCK FAN. People just can't accept that they've changed and seem to wanna hang around and whine about it. It's the epitomy of what's wrong with today's generation of music listeners. Y'all wanna hear the same crap over and over and over again ala Nickelback and The Red Hot Chili Peppers. All the music sounds the same.
Live have experimented from cd to cd and that deserves commendation and some amount of respect. Sure the music may not be as good but what bands do have that quality nowadays? U2? NO! Pearl Jam? NO!Metallica? NO! REM? NO!
So get over it already even. This new cd is much better then their last two. Birds Of Pray and V were pretty much unlistenable to me but I respected them for trying something different each time.
But again, to be sarcastic and say "ok 5 songs then" just shows you're another uneducated music fan who just wants to hear the same things from bands over and over again. Well, grow up. Bands like LIVE and Pearl Jam are 10 years older now and the music they make is different.
You're not allowing yourself to be objective for this reason and it's really a shame. Because you are misinforming people and possibly preventing them from buying music they might enjoy.
30 - DJRadiohead
The ignorance here is your eagerness to make wild assumptions about me and my musical tastes.
I believe if a poll of music fans, Live fans, and music critics was undertaken Copper would be the more popular and more praised album each and every time. I don't accept your contention here. I don't think it's more complete and I don't think it's higher quality.
Just because I didn't like subpar Live albums (subpar by your own admission) doesn't mean I love Nickelback or want to hear the same thing over again. I want to hear something good. Live could make an album of Bolivian polka music. That'd be different but would it be any good? My guess is probably not. Live is free to change anytime they want. Change for change sake isn't virtuous. Change for the better is good. Change for the worse is less.
As for objectivity, how objective are you? You don't strike me as any more or less objective than I am. Of course YOU don't see anything wrong with the tunes you selected. So because you don't see anything wrong with them that ends the discussion? I don't think so. You like those songs? Fine by me but I'm not buying off on all of them.
I listened to Black Mountain numerous times and gave an honest assessment. An assessment shared by some and not by others. Maybe we're all the ignorant ones and you found the only enlightened path. Yes, I'm sure that's it.
31 - Yomama
You are the one who said and I quote "so maybe I was right and you are the one suffering from some musical ignorance." So don't try and turn it around on me here.
I don't care what songs you buy in to really. Fact is that 3 of those songs were number one hits and the rest are damn good songs. That's not just my opinion neither but the opinion of thousands of LIVE fans.
Despite what you believe, you could take a poll of longtime, hardcore LIVE fans and you would be wrong pal. TDTH would rule over Throwing Copper EVERY SINGLE TIME. I know this because I have witnessed this same poll a hundred times if not more. I have not seen one where Throwing Copper has won. I've seen a few where SS and MJ have won but NEVER TC. Just because it was the most popular in the publics eye, doesn't make it better. Just because critics acclaim it more, doesn't make it better. Most of these critics nowadays know sweet piss all about structure, creativity or well written lyrics. They give a cd one or two listens and pass judgment and that method borders on inane and idiotic.
In the end, it doesn't really matter what you think. go tell any longtime LIVE fan that songs such as Where Fishes Go, Feel The Quiet River Rage, Voodoo Lady, The Dolphin's Cry, Lakini's Juice, Turn My Head, They Stood Up For Love, Overcome, Like I Do, Gas Hed Goes West or Face and Ghost are subpar songs and they'll laugh in your face. FACT is, they're better then 90 percent of the music out there nowadays.
So you stay stuck in your Throwing copper era and keep giving your useless subjective opinions. Because that's what they are, useless. I've said what I have to say to you and can't be bothered wasting another minute on somebody so obviously ignorant, biased and uneducated in the realm of music.
32 - DJRadiohead
Funny that you say Just because it was the most popular in the publics eye, doesn't make it better yet point out that three of the songs you like were #1 hits. Sounds to me like you want it both ways. Sounds to me like you are only interested in justifying your view and you cite alleged fan polls that may or may not exist and may or may not be representative. Pal, I am married to a Live fan who finds Copper to be their best album. I have talked to many other people who share this opinion. Does that mean we're right? Maybe not. It does mean, however, there are a lot of people who see things differently than you do. So there it is. You see it one way, other people see it the other. I am still not convinced more people wouldn't prefer Throwing Copper. I know- true Live fans, right? Who's defining that? I guess if we let you do the picking you will get your answer.
It sounds to me that you are mostly interested in having your opinions validated. So be my guest. Go places where no one will ever say anything critical about what you like and pat yourself on the back for being so much more knowledgeable about music than everyone else. Yes, all the critics who disagree with you are obviously stupid and know less about music than you do.
The word ignorant first surfaced in your post. The namecalling has come from your direction- that's on you.
33 - Tom Johnson
Trust me, "most people," ie, the general public, are going to recognize Throwing Copper as Live's big album. They may not even be aware of anything else of theirs. I can bear witness to this as I saw them play at a New Year's Eve concert a couple years back that was open to the general public at a huge gathering (200,000 people.) The crowd's reaction to songs they didn't know (anything not on TC) ranged from complete disinterest to downright hostility (albeit drunken hostility, but still . . . ) It was a truly terrible concert, and it had nothing to do with the band, who did the best they could. Whoever their manager is needs to be fired or he needs to start booking them to play actual concerts instead of these general public concerts and following baseball games - these are TERRIBLE venues and that's ALL they've had in Phoenix in the past 5 years or so.
I've said it before and I'm saying it again: fans are their own entity. They have nothing to do with the general public. Their interests in a band are completely different and sometimes their tastes run completely at odds with the public, as Yomama's information about polls indicates. In other words, fans overwhelming love of a band is what makes them irrelevent to people who are just looking for "good music." Fans are willing to listen to something 6, 8, 10 times in order to find something redeeming about a song or an album and then fall in love with it. Most people simply are not. I would say that most people who are even considering buying a new Live album today fall into the borderline "fan" category. They still have some general market interest, but they're slipping into that territory where you probably have to be "into" the band to really know and care that they have new music out.
34 - Guppusmaximus
All I have to say is that if this album doesn't smell like retirement pay, especially with the appearance on American Idol, then I am musically ignorant as well. Unfortunately, Secret Samahdi was Live's last powerful CD. Pearl Jam hasn't been a good benchmark since .Vs and RHCP's newest release is so full of filler that I feel like I could just piss myself from listening to it.
Granted DJRadiohead and I haven't always seen "eye to eye", I can say that he is quite knowledgeable in the realm of music and is "Spot on" with his review of this dismal release from a band I used to like.
35 - Yomama
Good one dj!!! Because I'm one of those people that finds Throwing Copper to be their best work followed by Mental Jewelry. If I was trying to justify anything, it would be that opinion wouldn't it?
I can be objective as far as music goes. With your sarcasm and self professed "exaggerations," it's obvious you can't be.
And to be completely honest, I do know quite a bit more about music then the average person and probably a hell of a lot more than most critics. Has nothing to do with whether or not they disagree with me. It has to do with how much they actually know about music itself, which in my experience is very little.
Seems like you are the one who wants it both ways pal. Lining up your clever little innuendos that insinuate I'm the one whose opinion counts most. Funny how that's what I see in little weasals like you.
36 - Yomama
For example, where are the catchy guitar "licks" in Show? Because there are none. The reverb is so high over the chorus that it's just a mash of I don't know what. It drowns out the entire band including Ed.
And where is the "lecturing" in Love Shines? Baffles me when people ramble sewage like that.
"On a crystal clear blue morning,
there is a peace that only you can know.
It is truth and love and it is always there, even when you fall down....Love Shines"
What a lecture!!!
He's singing a song to his daughters you idiot. Have some respect for it.
The fact that you're knocking a man for something obviously important to him shows you are EXACTLY that. Same with your assumptions about Sophia which has NOTHING to do with his daughter. You focus on that instead of recognizing that it's actually a very good song and probably offers the most on the album as far as the funky chord progression on guitar and the funky little solo near the end that is virtually non existent on the rest of the cd.
I could go on and on but it's obvious you're one of those critics I spoke of above. Musically ignorant.
37 - Liam
I just like to add my take on the songs...
I'm pretty sure that the song 'Get Ready' is about a mass spiritual transformation in the world which is in the process of occuring. Ed has been writing about this theme for sometime now I beleive and it's more prevalent on this album than any other...
So in view of that it's really not cheesy at all...
38 - DJRadiohead
Liam, thanks for your comment.
39 - Cow
Recently I went to a Live concert and their latest albums have definitely gone down hill, but their concerts sure haven't. It was really amazing and intense. They performed a improv song, which was rocking. Totally different from their last three albums. Also, they played Mirror song, which is from Mental Jewelry, and that kicked some major ass. Ed, even though it doesnt show on their albums because of his persistence of singing in falsetto, has such a great range of his vocals. For example: Live's cover of I Walk the Line.
Lakini's Juice is definitlely one of my favorite songs ever, which was on Secret Samadhi. I do hope they get their shit together and start playing some worthwhile songs, but I suppose that is doubtful. I will always be grateful for their first four albums.