It is rare these days that I get a record that makes me stop in my tracks, that I play endlessly, put away, and then when I pick it up again, it's still as good as I remember it. One of two new releases from Bright Eyes, I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning, is a record like that.…
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26 - DJRadiohead
Once again, you are simply demonstrating your own lack of musical knowledge.
You do not have the first clue how much musical knowledge I possess. Disagreeing with you does not make me ignorant or wrong.
Robert Smith? Off key? Your ears are full of cement.
Have you ever listened to The Cure? OK... so you do not hear the similarities in the voices. Fine. And off-key might be a bit harsh, but when I listen to Conor, I hear a certain warbling quality to his voice that is a big turn off.
Perhaps you don't like him but your attempts at criticism are nothing but immature, ignorant insult.
Namecalling... that rates very high on the maturity scale. If you do not like people taking views different from your own, post your writing on a blog with comments turned off and you will be spared the specter of dissent. Your disagreement with my criticisms does not make them wrong and implying your superiority does not render them moot.
Hence the reason I really have zero respect for your opinion.
I am crushed. Really. And here I thought we were going to be friends.
I'm just curious how many of his records you own, exactly? Since you're not hearing him on any radio station.
I do not own any of them. I have listened to material from his last two albums because one of my co-workers is a big fan. I also saw a performance on Letterman.
Here you go again, telling people how they should feel and what they understand and what they think. It's impossible to have a discussion with anyone who's like this.
Boy are we lucky you are not doing this.
*whine* read what I wrote and agree with me! *stamp feet*
27 - Eric Olsen
I thought she was saying that to Naz, who was a bit more, um, aggressive
28 - DJRadiohead
Naz might have been the more aggressive one... until I overreacted. =)
I think some of it was tossed my direction on the count of me starting the crap about Robert Smith (which I stand by). But I probably should have taken my pill rather than let myself get dragged into some silly message-board drama.
I am going home and I am taking a nap.
29 - clr
It's just a record review, it's just an opinion, it's not meant to be anything moe than what it is, one person's opinion on a record. It's not a political statement or grand defense of Conor Oberst. I am impressed with this release and its companion, I am impressed at his performances of late, and how he shared a stage with the likes of R.E.M. and Bruce Springsteen and held his own - not an easy feat in front of an audience that cowed even R.E.M. If you don't like the record, cool. If you do, cool.
The one thing about Conor's work (and, again, I tried to make this point in my review, perhaps I didn't succeed) was that it always represented where he was, as an artist and an individual, at any given time. Language considered "pretentious" by some spoke directly and emotionally to others, and was extremely meaningful to them.
I remember seeing the Cure when they first toured the U.S. so I have been following them for some time and am reasonably familiar with their material, and have never heard that comparison, nor have I ever heard any one else on the entire planet level it. It doesn't seem particularly constructive or relevant, but it is, of course, an opinion you're entitled to. However, you have to admit that it doesn't leave any room for any kind of meaningful dialogue on the subject.
"He doesn't!"
"He does!"
Well, okay. Form that opinion from a casual listening and dismiss the rest of the body of work, certainly an approach that you're entitled to, but one whose validity and value could be called into question by others.
And Eric, remember what I said about why I am not fond of replying to comments on BC? A bottomless pit with really no value in the end.
It's just a review - if you find value or insight, then enjoy it. If you don't, click to the next thing.
Signed,
Talentless Hack
30 - Mark Saleski
as much as i don't like Bright Eyes, i still don't see why folks like to wield the words "pretentious lyrics" like a weapon.
i mean, don't you have to know the intent to be sure that someone's being pretentious?
31 - Craig Lyndall
I agree with you Mark.
At the same time, it is my opinion after many listens that the whole Bright Eyes phenomenon has grown a little bit out of proportion. I will be giving the two new albums a very close listen sometime soon, but it is my opinion after the last album with the annoyingly long title, that Connor Oberst, while providing a new packaging, isn't really doing anything all that new or groundbreaking. Like I said, I will reserve judgement on the new stuff for now.
In terms of the Robert Smith thing, I agree that there are some techniques that both of these guys use that are similar in the way they approach notes in their vocal chords. I think it is hard to explain over a blog, but I know what you are talking about when you say you hear similarities.
32 - Eric Olsen
Caryn, the value of interacting via comments can only be determined by the individual and you are free to do so as much or as little as you would like. But I disagree that nothing is gained through said interaction.
33 - DJRadiohead
Caryn (if I may be so familiar as to use your name), I do not think of you as a talentless hack- I don't even think of Conor as a talentless hack.
As to my Cure comparison... I would love to be able to say I am the only person who has come up with this connection, but I am not. I am including these examples not to bolster my own point (we obviously disagree and you make a good point about the potential for dialogue on this subject), but in case you are curious here are some blurbs from other critics who have made this connection [God Bless Google]:
Oberst's quavering vocal always has resonated with a debt to Robert Smith, leader of English 1980s synth-rockers the Cure. (from the Oregonian)
His shaky Elmer Fudd-meets-Robert Smith moan is too weird (WCNC)
Critics of Bright Eyes complain of Oberst’s Robert Smith-style, choked-up cry and his songs of doomed depression and problematic love. After a while, the “no one understands me” mentality of Bright Eyes seems like a parody of bad high school goth poetry. (Minnesota Daily).
How many times should a reviewer/critic listen, read, watch, etc. a particular work before rendering an opinion? That is an interesting question and it is a discussion I have had with more than one person- it is very subjective as is this whole pursuit as you aptly point out in your response. If someone wants to dismiss my criticism of Conor Oberst on grounds I have not listened to enough of his work, that is fair. I would contend I have heard him sing enough to know whether or not he sounds like Robert Smith, others would say not. And that is OK with me. You either hear it or you do not.
So I guess I would like to close with this... if this is just a review followed by a conversation maybe we should all tone things down a bit. Questioning someone's musical knowledge by accusing them of having cement in their ears, or calling someone else's thoughts ignorant or immature... well, that tends to piss people off and they are likely to go shooting off at the mouth in response. And then you have this.
You are not a talentless hack. I am glad you like the Bright Eyes record. I am glad you wrote a review of it. I am glad so many people have taken the opportunity to discuss it. I am sorry if my words or tone have come across as hurtful or unpleasant.
34 - Aaron, Duke De Mondo
dj radiohead, what you are is a gentleman.
35 - Eric Olsen
absolutely
36 - Aaman
Bright Eyes will be on an NPR concert this weekend at Washington D.C.'s 9:30 Club - details here - the show will also be available online. Joining Bright Eyes in concert are Tilly and the Wall, also from Nebraska, and sisters Bianca and Sierra Casady who perform as CocoRosie.Tilly and the Wall's new album, co-produced by Oberst, is Wild Like Children. CocoRosie are promoting La Maison De Mon Reve, an album the American sisters recorded in Paris, where they now live.
37 - Aaron, Duke De Mondo
cool, thanks aaman. i'll have to check out the online version.
38 - naz
I think everyone is being a little bit precious. I understand that its healthy towant to be reasonable polite online or otherwise, but we're discussing a record and i think we should all feel free to disagree with anyones opinions regarding it in a reasonably aggressive manner.
Its a blog forum...not church. Senators in parliment dont even act so reserved as some of you cats in this forum.
And Caryn.. I think it was you who started the aggressivnes back when you told djradiohead he has cement in his ears for thinking Conner sounded similer to Robert smith. So get over your hypocrysy and have some fun.
39 - Sydney
HaHa.. I knew i would get a rise out of you all for that post. I was a little careless I suppose but I think the essence of my comment was correct.
That is to say that (in my opinion) terrorists are very minor participants in this war. There are terrorists out and about and engaging with the U.S. however, most of the so called terrorists are elsewhere in the world. Certainly, Al-queda et al. are not in Iraq.
Iraqi civilians are engaged in a civil war and a war against what they believe is an occupying power trying to instill their interests in Iraq. Sure some of these Iraqis are using horrible tactics, but we created the state that country finds itself in. There were much less damaging means of getting rid of Sadamm Hussein. Nor do I believe it was our place to remove him, especially under the pretenses that Iraq was part of a war on terrorism. That was a flat out lie, and the world knew it was from the get go. That hole bit of charades at the security counsel with Powell was just a low point in American history.
Ok.. so what I was saying was America being on Iraqi turf gives us little or no moral clout, even if we do have an upper hand on a handful of psycho terrorists. So to listen to you guys go on about the details of certain terrorists actions, is to be blind to the situation at large. We should be ashamed of our ignorance and our stubbornness to face the real problem.
I think most Americans like to imagine that they are at war with a country full of evil terrorists. We arn't, but we sure are doing our best to create some.
Those quotes about wanting to rid America of democracy, well that’s just crap. How many Iraqi's are out on a war against Democracy. next to none. Your listening to one or two quotes from rebel rousing clerics or terrorists. Do you really think this is what were fighting? Such crap…
Anyway, my position is that Americans would have done better to gather multilateral support for the formation of a intelligence community and counter terrorism strikes across Europe and the east. Instead we decided to attack Iraq for totally different reasons and alienated everyone. Now the citizens of the world, and their governments are all working against us in the hopes that we fail (and this is real, they really are working against us).
So we try our best to justify our war as being against terrorists. "terrorist" has become a blanket term to refer to anyone who points a rifle towards an American, and we prefer this use of the word cause it makes us feel morally justified. Sure we drag the odd the kidnapping victims and other to the surface and use this to reinforce our beliefs that the average Arab is crazy, but in reality we as a people don’t have the slightest clue what an Arab is like or about, nor do we realize the years of insult we have hurled upon them. We think we have the solution -- we’ll bomb them and show them American money at work, let them see the wonders of capitalist economies in the Arab world. They wont think twice of the losses they took in those bombings because they’ll be so impressed by the economic opportunities. It's soooo pathetic, and depressing, and most of all arrogant..
40 - sydney
sorry.. that last post belongs on antoher thread.. how'd that happen?? disregard it...
41 - Aaman
And what exactly does Conor Oberst care about this?
42 - ok
I like the album. And I don't think conor cares what any of the critics say about it.
43 - Dave
The problem is that you people need to stop hearing the music and listen to it. This album is one of the best albums I have ever heard. It doesn't matter what Conor Oberst's voice sounds like or what the critics think or any of that stuff be human and formulate your own opinion which you are entitled to. Listen to the music and ask yourself how it makes you feel. Don’t go around saying "it sounds like this guy" or trying to put it into some genre like folk emo or something. We are past those days. Rock and roll isn’t what it used to be. There are too many people out there doing there own thing to classify music like "alternative" what is it an alternative from? From the old school rock like Elvis Presley or the Beatles? Look all I’m saying is when I look at these reviews and people are making comparisons with other stuff that is just so futile. Those days died in the 60’s welcome to 45 years of being original. Have a great day.
44 - Amiee
i can tell you all are wicked smartt. i even had to look up some of the words everyone is throwing around just to make sure i knew what i was reading... iam in the closet bright eyes fan, like (i think ) most people are... simple put i like um' becuse they say something to me. blaa blaaa to the musical dadadaaa that they are ment to havee...