New York City in the late 1970's appeared to be a city in decline. The subways were caked in graffitti, the city was losing money hand over fist, the crime rate was beginning to skyrocket, the streets were filthy, taxes were high, the infrastructure was old and inadequate. For a teen or a young adult; it was a fairly depressing environment at times.
It was nothing like Detroit, a city that had collapsed entirely. But it was a city that seemed to be going through rough times and falling apart at the edges.
In the skid row section, on a street called simply The Bowery, full of fleabag $2 a night flophouses, bums sleeping in the streets, an ambient aroma of stale beer, urine and feces hanging in the air, rock 'n' roll was undergoing one of its greatest renaissances; one that essentially closed the books on the 60's and early 70's dinousaurs and laid the groundwork for the 80's indie movement, and alternative rock in general.
The centerpiece on this alleyway of human filth was a club called CBGB, forever enshrined in the Talking Heads' "Life During Wartime". The club catered to a new generation of customer; younger, streetwise, drug and alcohol consuming, edgy types who had absolutely no use whatsoever for the newest mega-releases by established rock titans.
They were drawn to a punchy, quirky, tough, street-honed new music that spoke to their concerns and fears, understood their highs and lows, and prized individuality and the value in underground community. These bands were called different labels at the time: "punk" "new wave" "CBGB". The best genre term in retrospect may be "New York Punk" distinguishing it from the L.A., Detroit, and English varieties.
New York Punk came into existence around 1975 and dominated the New York scene through the early eighties. It was a contemporary of disco, and could occasionally take on some of its elements, but most of the time it was a loud, guitar driven music that borrowed heavily from the Velvet Underground. The New York Dolls, a brash, rude local band that was one of America's lone glam bands get credit for being the pioneers of the scene. Despite a rabid cult, they never were able to sell many records. By the time CBGB opened its doors, bands like Patti Smith Group, Talking Heads, and most importantly of all, the Ramones were on the eve of their first releases, and a real scene evolved.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Joey K.
Hey, mister "writer" - check this out...You said:
6. The New York Dolls: Looking For A Kiss ****
"If you ignore the fact that these guys wore dresses, and that their bassist later had a sex-change operation..."
Unbelievable!! Why don't you get your facts right?? Arthur "Killer" Kane NEVER had a sex change operation, in fact he married a woman named Barbara and I saw him just before he died, still chasing girls. Also, the Dolls never wore dresses...make-up, lipstick, pumps - yes, dresses, no.
You shouldn't be a writer if you're going to post shit like this.
2 - uao
Sorry, dude. I was thinking of Wayne County>>Jayne County who played with New York Doll Jerry Nolan. I fixed it.
3 - Giaco
Born to Lose ~ Johnny Thunders ...
4 - david
Nice choices mostly-
but I don't think your Blondie selections fit in a New York Punk programme...both cuts are from a later, more dance-oriented Blondie- and don't encompass the New York attitdue and raw energy of earlier cuts such as
Kung Fu Girls
X Offender
Fan Mail
or even 11:59 or Will Anything Happen from Parallel Lines.
My 2 cents.
5 - Dave Nalle
A couple of quibbles. The Talking Heads are from Boston, so they aren't really a New York band, even if they appeared there among many other places. And I agree on Blondie - much too late, especially Jump Jump.
I'd also throw in a vital omission - maybe to replace "Jump Jump". How about "This Day and Age" by D. L. Byron. He was a feature of the New York club scene for years and IMO one of the great unrecognized songwriting geniuses of the 70s and 80s. His drug problems in the 80s really eclipsed what could have been a stellar career. I've never seen a more dynamic performer live.
Dave
6 - Dave Nalle
Wait, I'm not done...
How about a nod to Robert Gordon while we're at it?
Dave
7 - Lisa McKay
Dave, my recollection of Talking Heads history is that David Byrne met Tina Weymouth and Chris Frantz when they were all students at RISD, in Providence. They moved to NY shortly thereafter.
8 - Dave Nalle
Providence, Boston - close enough when you live in Texas. But you're right on their point of origin. Looked 'em up. Didn't realize David Byrne was originally from Scotland.
Dave
9 - Lisa McKay
But Dave, if you're in New England, a miss is as good as a mile.
10 - uao
Awrgh. I thought this was dead and buried. It was an early article; I'm better at it now.
As for Talking Heads, I realize they weren't from NY originally; neither were some of the other bands/musicians. However, they gained renown after their move to NY; the piece was a tip of the hat to what was happening in NY at the time.
I plan to redo this one at some point. But thanks for the thoughts and info; it always helps.
11 - Vern Halen
Love these overviews. If you're going to redo this article sometimes, maybe give a nod to the MC5 & the Stooges - I know, it's Detroit proto punk & not the New Yawk flavor at all, but I've always thought there was a spiritual connection there somewhere. The Dictaors doing "Search & Destroy", the MC5's Fred Smith marrying Patti Smith, etc. And the Velvets, too (John Cale produced the Stooges' first album, and I believe he actually fell off the stage at the end of that live take of Patti Smith's My Generation!).
12 - SphinxMontreal
With regards to niteclub culture,in addition to CBGB's, Max's Kansas City also played an integral role in the New York City pre-punk scene
http://www.maxskansascity.com/
Also, the Mudd Club deserves honorable mention.
13 - mike hollihan
Excellent as usual, uao. But since this is a music discussion, there must be quibbles.
You do great to call punk "punchy, quirky, tough, street-honed new music that spoke to their concerns and fears, understood their highs and lows, and prized individuality and the value in underground community." But then you seem to place a higher value to the loud, stripped down descendants of Detroit than the others.
There were a lot of early punks who looked back to the Sixties -- Mink DeVille, Blondie, even the PSG's Lenny Kaye. And you've cut out a lot of punks like James Chance, Teenage Jesus, Robert Gordon, etc., who pushed a lot of edges and boundaries -- a core tenet for much of punk.
My favorite Blondie tune? "Picture This." Pure Sixites bliss with punk energy. You might have picked "Hangin' on the Telephone" (a cover song from LA's The Nerves) for your Blondie song, as it demonstrated the East Coast/West Coast connection in punk.
Still, I love these lists and the thought and writing that go into them. When ya gonna take a look at Ohio's punk scene or the Great Lost First Wave of California punk? I'd love to see your take.
14 - Mike Leary
While I applaud the mention of the importance of CBGBs (I used to work there)
I think it should be pointed out as another commentor stated that Max's did have as much to do and MORE in some cases with the NYC Punk Scene...
Bands like the Dolls and Wayne Jayne Country and to some extent Blondie were really more of what you would call Max's acts. Yes Blondie got their start at CBGBs but they were hated at first and didn't get accepted by the CBs crowd until they started polishing their act at Max's
the Dolls were purely a Max's band in the eyes of anyone who was in the scene at the time and yes they played CBs but it was not what you would call their home turf.
As for the quibbling about the THeads not being from NY well other than the Ramones who really was from NY? It's irrelevent since they were PART of the NYC Punk Scene...B52's are also considered part of that NYC punk scene and hell they came from Athens Georgia!
We must understand that the NYC Punk scene was just about the ONLY punk scene at the time. Other than the British scene which was largely inspired by the Ramones and NYC Punk scene. So just about every punk band you love at one point had to come to NY and CBs or Max's to find their audience. Since it was the only audience in the country at the time!
Not until the Surf Punks and hardcore crowd in California came around was there really any other punk scene around.
There were punks all over the country but in the early years they all gravitated to CBs and Max's...
And to deny them their contribution to the NYC punk scene simply because they don't have a NYC birth certificate is unfair...
Many bands like the Dead Boys would be left out of and cheated of their contribution to what NYC punk was all about!
15 - gonzo marx
Iggy and the Stooges!!!
nuff said
Excelsior!
16 - Jonesy
Ah! Where are the Stooges? And MC5! And not sure completely why Blondie is up here..
But other than that, nice write up.
17 - uao
I really need to do a revision of this one; it keeps bubbling back up from the depths....
For you Stooges and MC5 fans, you're standing at the wrong bus terminal. Head west, to Detroit!
18 - Commie Spam
Hi, I'm from Holland. In Europe many consider this site is on new wave, not on punk because punk was originated in Britain. It was a reaction to, amongst other things, the high youth unemployment that was Britain harassing at that time. For that reason their lyrics were very political (The Clash! Sham 69!).
I disagree the Ramones (one of my favourite bands!) were a real punk band because a real punk band shall never write songs like 'Rock 'n' Roll High School' and 'Spiderman', though those songs are very funny and exciting indeed.
Don't get me wrong: this is a great side and it isn't my intention at all to insult anyone, I only disagree as far as definitions used in this site are concerned.
19 - Commie Spam
It's me again, the Dutchman. Well, I totally agree with Jonesy, "Why is Blondie here?" Again, don't get me wrong: I LOVE Blondie: I've nearly got all their music, CD's and records as well, even the first pressing of 'Denis', including some great bootlegs. Anyway, I've also wondered why people think 'em punk ... they're, although according to me, the second best pop band ever (ABBA were the best)but to call 'em punk is no good.
20 - Commie Spam
This site is great(!), so please forgive me I can't stop writing. Anyway, I've got some burning questions: How come the sleeve of my album 'Blank Generations' (on vinyl, 180 gram)differs from the album depicted on this site? Another question: I've got a CD by one of my favourite bands, Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers, called 'Johnny Thunders & the Heartbreakers: Vive la Revolution!' Does anyone of yours know if that's a bootleg?
21 - Commie Spam
This is only a linguistic correction: in my latest comment I wrote, "How come the sleeve of my album of 'Blank Generation' ..." Of course this should be, "How come the sleeve of my copy of 'Blank Generation' ..."
I don't want the Anglo-Saxon readers to think the Dutch don't speak Englissh. Incidentally, being a youngster (I'm fourty-one now) it was my intention to read English letters. Yours,
22 - Ron Littke
Does anybody know what happened to the band Model Citizens?
They were from Columbia Univerity and were big in New York in the early 80's. I'm trying to find their music.
23 - ryan
I'd take issue with one point that punk was started in England.Many might say it started with Iggy...or with the Velvet Underground. The bump up I think started in England yes...but with the band the Heartbreakers with Johnny Thunders...Jerry Nolan...Walter Lure and Billy Rath. Because of their affintity for drugs their potential both on this tour of England and their greatness as a whole were cut short. Everything after them was in some way connected. Just a humble opinion
24 - STM
I can't agree with the Iggy Pop or Velvet Underground argument, but there'd certainly be a case in the US for The Ramones, among others. Radio Birdman was another non-British band with huge influence in the birth of this era.
Probably in truth the thrashing style of music was on its way some time prior - but it was bands like The Clash (early stuff) and artists like Billy Childish that took it to another level. (In my view, the Sex Pistols were just cashing in).
Punk was really born out of frustration with the British class structure, the impotence of the left and the Labour Party to improve the lot of the working class in comparison to those higher up the social echelon and the steady move to the right of British politics.
Interestingly, its birth was followed by the rise to power of Conservative Party leader Maggie Thatcher, whose aims were probably diametrically opposed to those espoused by the anarchic followers of the punk movement.
And paradoxically, it was Thatcher's violently divided Britain that also brought about the beginning of the end of punk, as it was she who, accidentally I suspect, was instrumental in dismantling many of the invisible barriers that held people back under the class system.
Under Thatcher, and for the first time in British history, working class people could genuinely aspire to positions in society that had hitherto been denied them simply because of their birth status. That she did this to the detriment of many workers was a side-effect that led to huge social upheaval. Young Punks also came from all echelons of British society and mixed together.
Interesting times though. I lived through it and loved it. It was like a revolution, not just in music (which in truth wasn't that good, but I suppose that was part of the appeal as well. An angry, two-fingered musical "up-yours" to the record industry) but also in attitudes. It truly provided young people in Britain with a catalyst for social change.
The results are to be seen today in Tony Blair's New Labour and a more open Britain.
25 - KEVIN
I GREW UP WITH PRE PUNK ON STATEN ISLAND NYC I KNEW DAVID JOHANSEN, I ALSO PLAYED IN ROCK GROUPS, NEVER DID MUCH, BUT IT WAS ALWAYS INTERESTING TO ME THAT NY DOLLS AND WU TANG CAME FROM THE SAME CONSERVATIVE WORKING CLASS NEIGHBORHOOD.