22 Greatest MCs

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• 1 - Al Barger

  Jul 22, 2003 at 7:09 pm

  Hey, where does Vanilla Ice come in on this list?

• 2 - Michael

  Jul 22, 2003 at 7:11 pm

  LMAO!

• 3 - Al Barger

  Jul 23, 2003 at 12:09 am

  Thanks Michael, I strive to please.

• 4 - cjones

  Jul 23, 2003 at 11:25 am

  I AM SOOOO WITH YOU ON THIS. KRS-1 is without question the GREATEST MC to ever touch the mike. I used to watch him all the time in Harlem and grew up with his music. Rakim is def my #2 pick also. Rakim's lyrics are often more profound but KRS-1 has versatility that can't be fathomed. I dont fault MTV with their polls cause they really dont give a damn they just report what the young kids say. Anyway, nice list.

• 5 - Eric Olsen

  Jul 23, 2003 at 11:31 am

  M, your list is great and informative - I will have to follow up on some I am less familiar with, but I have never been as big a KRS fan as most real afficionados. It's probably me. He has just never had the songs I need to to really get into it, has never been "catchy" enough for my ears. I love Rakim, though, and for just pure flow, he's my fave.

• 6 - Michael

  Jul 23, 2003 at 1:48 pm

  Thanks CJones & Eric. It's really splitting hairs between the top 10 MCs, IMO. Good arguments can be made for any of them.
  
  Eric, I can understand your feeling about KRS b/c feel somewhat the same about Eminem. I recognize his incredible talent, but most of what he rhymes about (on records) doesn't interest me. I think he really shines while freestyling. I've heard recordings of radio shows with him rhyming (freestyling) with other big name MCs, and Em put them to shame.

• 7 - Eric Olsen

  Jul 23, 2003 at 2:19 pm

  I have been disinclined toward Eminem on every level from the beginning, but I must now recognize his talent. I like him best when he is "catchy" also, a sucker for hooks.

• 8 - Cal Ulmann

  Jul 23, 2003 at 4:43 pm

  I went to MTV2's website to see the tallys but up next they had the 22 Greatest Bands. The list was a pre-chosen selection of 22 and if this happened with the MCs I can see that the public was not really given a choice of charachters only of order. The forced selection is the only way I see Foxy Brown and Lil Kim being on the list.

• 9 - Michael

  Jul 24, 2003 at 10:05 am

  Cal,
  
  That's very interesting. I see a choice of 44 bands for the current poll. That may very well explain the results f the MC list, if it was done the same way.

• 10 - S-Train

  Jul 26, 2003 at 8:32 am

  Doug E Fresh should be higher. He damn near invented the "party flow" in hip-hop. In fact, where's Slick Rick? KRS-ONE should be second to Rakim. Rakim is the greatest MC of all time. You ever listened to those lyrics and flow in "Follow the Leader":
  
  A furified freestyle, lyrics of fury
  My third eye makes me shine like jewelry
  You're just a rent-a-rapper, your rhymes are minute-maid
  I'll be here when it fade to watch you flip like a renegade
  I can't wait to break and eliminate
  On every traitor or snake - so stay awake
  and follow and follow, because the tempo's a trail
  The stage is a cage, the mic is a third rail.
  
  And the way he said those lyrics?? Da BOMB!

• 11 - Dew

  Jul 26, 2003 at 11:03 am

  When I think of Mc's, I am thinking of, for the most part, a lyrical story teller. Stories being that which pulls you in mentally and emotionally. Lyrics being the rhyming scheme that pulls it together over music. Key factors for me would be: 1)what you are saying ties in to the overall point 2)difficulty and degree of rhyme because what you say is half as important as how you say it 3) Personality, you have to have the charisma to be noticed. Whats the use of a messenger who cant speak up 4) Creativity, no explanation needed I'm sure and lastly but certainly not least 5) Attitude, the core of Hip hop is attitude. Who you are, what you feel and letting people know it.
  
  For those reasons I have to severely disagree with both lists. Where is Andre 3000 and Lauryn Hill and oo my gosh why dont people understand Dr. dre is a producer not an MC!! He should not be on MTV2's list nor honorable mention. A lot of these lists are usually blind to the actual judging factor: Lyrics. The Sugar Hill Gang were very influential in their role in bringing Hip Hop to the masses but lyricists they were not.
  
  In no particular order some additions to the lists:
  1. Lauryn Hill The Mask (The Score) then pick a song any song(who is probably the only female artist worthy of being in the top ten if not the top five)
  2. Jay Z A Dream (Blueprint 2, The Blue Disc) before that 22 2’s(Reasonable Doubt)
  3. Eminem Kill You (Marshall Mather LP) Dead Wrong (Born Again) Grotesque but brilliant
  4. Busta Rhymes Pick a song any song
  5. Mystikal Yall Ain’t Ready (Mind of Mystikal)
  6. Scarface Pick a song any song
  7. Cee Lo One For the Road (…Perfect Imperfections)
  8. Black Thought The Seed (Phrenology)
  9. Redman Pick a song any song
  10. DMX Look Thru My Eyes (...Hell is Hot)
  11. Andre 3000 Bombs over Bagdhad and then pick a song
  
  
  I guess because lyrics touch people in different ways and MC's garner so many different styles there will always exist this debate as to who the greatests are...

• 12 - Eric Olsen

  Jul 26, 2003 at 12:16 pm

  Thanks Dew, very informative and an interesting position

• 13 - Michael

  Jul 26, 2003 at 10:03 pm

  S-Train,
  
  In my opinion KRS gets a slight edge over Rakim b/c of his live performance skills. Of course I know that and every other Rakim lyric. But I can throw an equally ill KRS line at you for each Rakim one. And don't forget that Kris rock many different styles, including that reggae ish! I was just digging through some old Source magazines and came across their January 1998 issue. They had a 'Best of the Best' section in there. The results of three of their categories shows why Kris is #1 to me:
  
  Greatest MC
  1. Rakim
  2 KRS-ONE
  3. Biggie
  4. Tupac
  5. LL Cool J
  
  Most Influential Rapper
  1. Tupac
  2. KRS-ONE
  3. Rakim
  4. Chuck D
  5. LL Cool J
  
  Best Live Performer
  1. KRS-ONE
  2. LL Cool J
  3. The Roots
  4. Puff Daddy
  5. Tupac
  
  Now to me, the fact that Kris came in at #1 or # 2 in each of those categories makes him clearly #1 overall. Again, to me, live performance is a HUGE part of being an MC. Note that Rakim didn't even make the top 5 there. Mind you, I'm in no way trying to slight Rakim. After all I do have him ranked #2 on my list.

• 14 - Michael

  Jul 26, 2003 at 10:29 pm

  Dew,
  
  I totally agree with you about the importance of lyrics. I do have to take issue with your comments about Dr. Dre though. Yes he's better at producing than rapping, but he does rap. Dre has made significant lyrical contributions to two albums (Chronic & Chronic 2001) that have received the Source's coveted 5 Mic rating (only 42 albums have achieved that). So apparently he raps well enough for those albums to still be considered classics. He's also rapped on 2 to 4 others from that list. (I can't remember if he actually rhymed on the D.O.C.'s and Snoop's albums) Plus there are all the lyrics he spat on N.W.A.'s Niggaz4Life, Eminem's albums, singles with Ice Cube & Snoop, etc. So for you to say that he's not a rapper makes no sense. Now if you don't like his flow or the fact that he doesn't write his own lyrics... well that's a whole different discussion. So yeah, I put Dre on my honorable mention list, but if I were to rank that list he'd probably be at the bottom of it.

• 15 - Dew

  Jul 27, 2003 at 12:31 am

  Hi Mike!! I agree his contributions have been pivotal but again I have to disagree. Dre doesnt write his own lyrics. I thought it was a well known fact that most if not all of his lyrics were ghostwritten. Cube wrote lyrics for Dre and Eazy, Snoop wrote majority of the lyrics for Chronic, Eminem and Jay Z are responsible for most of the Dre we know and love today. Don't think I hate Dre, quite the opposite, I just disagree that he belongs on anybodys MC list. Of course thats just my opnion. :-)

• 16 - Michael

  Jul 27, 2003 at 12:35 am

  Like I said, the ghostwriting thing is a whole 'nother discussion. (And don't forget the D.O.C. in the list of Dre's writers!) And it's definitely a good enough reason to keep him off of any greatest MCs list. So I won't even argue that point. What I'd like to know is how many rappers write all their own lyrics. And I also wonder if the stigma attached to using ghostwriters will ever go away. Funny how we don't think less of singers who don't write their own lyrics.

• 17 - Dew

  Jul 27, 2003 at 7:05 am

  Very true!! And by today (gross) pop standards we almost dont even expect it. I know I am almost surprised to hear a songwriter who sings and does so well (Queue: Alicia Keys, Avril Lavigne just to name two)

• 18 - Joe

  Aug 05, 2003 at 5:08 am

  yo dude, your list is even more wack than mtv's....at least mtv has enough sense to know that 2pac is #1.......the very fact that u have biggie #3 and eminem #4 shows that you don't know what the hell u are talkin about......biggie aint even in the top 10 nigga, and eminem would be around 7 or 8 at the highest......u didnt even put canibus on your list.....canibus could freestyle circles around eminem and probably any mcee.......eminem is so much on pac's nuts it aint even funny.....ya, u has real talent....like bitin pac's 'hail mary' song and makin it sound like total trash.....a 10 year old could have made up better lyrics.....him and loose change are the corniest niggaz in the game......they all corny today.....ja rule, 50, em, jay-z, daz, all murder inc., all aftermath, all bad boy, all rockafella....they all wack ass sellouts who ride their own dicks......and fatso biggie would have never been heard of if it wasnt for pac.....pac trained the nigga......go back and study how biggie went from 'party and bullshit' to 'big poppa'....go look at that and tell me that aint pac's lyrics comin outta biggie's mouth......all that shit that biggie rapped about was pac's life......biggie never had bitches till he had money....that aint no playa, thats a trick.....that aint no poppa......pac shit on biggie more than anyone has ever been shit on in the history of hip hop and biggie never even came back wit one word.....why??, cause he couldnt....he knew everything pac was sayin was true.....he couldnt come back from it, so the easiest thing to do was to just act like he didnt know wat the fuck was goin on......turnin his back when he knew those niggaz where gonna fuckin blow pac's head off at times square.....those were biggie's fuckin homeboys who jacked pac....then pac goes to jail for guns that biggie and his fag crew left in pac's room....serial numbers scratched out and everything......u gotta have some balls to put that phoney fat motha fucka as #3 of all-time......and it wasnt kids who was votin on this shit nigga....if kids were votin, there aint no way pac would have been nowhere near 1st.....fags like ja, 50, em, jay-z, nelly, ludicrous, and all them niggaz would have been the top ones......wat fuckin kids know shit about pac???.....if they kids now, how old u think they were when pac was bangin 7, 8, 9, 10 years ago???.....they was like 4 years old nigga......and u go and put ll cool j up on there and not canibus.....lol, canibus blew that nigga out the game.....he tapped his fuckin ass.....where u been at b???....ll even came out and said that he was done battlin and that canibus won.....go listen to 'rip the jacker' 'second round ko' and shit like that.....canibus pissed on em too.....u think em is an mcee??....go to his concert and youll see nuttin but 12 year olds there, girls, and no niggaz.....that nigga is so psychotic, talkin bout rapin his mom, killin his wife, and all that wack shit.....he talks so much shit on kim, yet he went back wit her and is on her clit in real life......that scrap is nuttin but a joke.....motha fucka was on tlc and shit....he just tryin to get attention wit his cannibalistic, satanistic lyrics.....if pac was still alive, none of these niggaz would even be in the game......who in the hip hop industry has been bit off of the most ever???....2pac.....who doesnt bite off of him???.....how many niggaz have stolen his songs, his beats, his style, his image, his persona, his attitude??....how many niggaz be talkin bout they boys wit pac and they didnt even know him or pac hated them???.....ja, 50, em, gay-z, nas, master p, etc......niggaz only bite off people who are the dopest....pac was the dopest nigga to touch a mic, and thats why all these wack niggaz in the game have been on his nuts and bitin his shit since the day he died......show me anyone who bites off krs, rakim, biggie, eminem, mos def, or any other rapper in your dam list.....aint nobody bitin any of them cause they aint nuttin......rakim has even said he wishes he worked wit pac.....all these niggaz wish they could be pac......recognize and realize kid

• 19 - Michael

  Aug 05, 2003 at 8:09 am

  Maybe you'll see more clearly when you detach yourself from Tupac's nuts. (nice e-mail address. Did you copy Tupac's tattoo too?) You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and clearly many people agree with you. I just happen to see it differently. You Tupac lovers are funny though. You get all fired up over somebody who doesn't think he's number 1. How did he brainwash you all? You probably think he's still alive too, huh? Move on man, he's gone. Life goes on. And while you're at it, how about cleaning up your langugage when posting to a public forum? Do you think you can use the word 'nigga' even more?

• 20 - Al Barger

  Aug 05, 2003 at 2:05 pm

  Crikey Joe, why don't you just dig Tupac up so you can fellate his corpse? Perhaps you could take some of this up with a qualified psychologist.
  
  Note that the neither the words "music" or "song" nor "melody" came up anywhere in this diatribe.
  
  100 years from now, no one will remember Tupac, or frankly more than a couple of names off any of these MC lists. Most educated people will, however, know Prince, Miles Davis and Duke Ellington. See, they are MUSICIANS.
  
  Tupac, on the other hand, was just another thug dumbass. There's no shortage of those. Tupac was certainly no musician, neither playing an instrument or being even vaguely a serious composer. The guy wouldn't have known a TUNE from tuna fish.
  
  Of particular silliness was Joe's claim about MTV's poll not being legitimate because it doesn't represent what the "kids" would have picked. So illiterate teens and pre-teens would be the proper objective authority as to what constitutes good music? What kind of stupidity is that?
  
  Again, not to put too fine a point on it, but this kind of foolishness passes for music discussion an appallingly large percentage of the time among rap fans. Joe takes it way out there, but what are you going to talk about with Biggie and Tupac except some cheap sociological crap about being "real" or "authentic"?
  
  Generally, there is precious little to discuss of a MUSICAL nature. Unless they've got some old dude feeding them records, I'm afraid most kids today wouldn't know a SONG if it came up an bit them in the ASS. This goes for Marilyn Manson and metal retards as much as for rap, to be fair.
  
  Goddam, but I'd like to see Lamont Dozier bring the pimp hand down on 50 Cent.

• 21 - Joe

  Aug 05, 2003 at 3:45 pm

  lol, yall better show some respect to the master and stop hatin on a nigga......yo mikey, i dont think pac is alive and i know life goes on.....who is the one that said that???....oh ya, thats right, 2pac did!!.....you using some of his lines aint ya??....lol, see even you haters cant not be influenced by pac
  
  and for my mentally challenged friend al, first off pac was cremated not buried, so i think i would have a hard time diggin him up you moron.....second, you say in 100 years no one will remember pac??....lol, that just shows how ignorant you really are.....pac is a legend and he is the hip hop industry and always will be....500 years from now u will have niggaz still bitin off his shit......and for u to call pac a "dumbass thug" u are just a really ignorant and arrogant prick.....pac had more brains than u will ever know boy....he is the most articulate mcee to ever live......he could write whole songs in 5 minutes.....he made 2pacalypse Now in 3 fuckin days asshole....in 5 years he wrote more than 600 songs and he has more songs written than any motha fucka in the industry...and he did it in 5 years.....all these other losers are in the game for 15, 20 years and still take 2 or 3 years to put out an album and it is still wack......u wouldnt last one day in his shoes.....he had the hardest life anyone could possibly have and he went from bein on welfare to bein a multi millionaire.....he was raised by a crack feign mother and never had any guidence in his life.....he never bit his tongue for nobody and went out the way he wanted, on top of the industry in the glimmer of everything.....he lived a 70 year live in 25 years.....he was the malcolm x of this generation and he was killed just like malcolm and martin luther king were....because they were all activists and spoke their mind regardless of wat the consequences were......pac was gunned down by the feds cause he was startin to take over everything....they didnt want no black panter decendant raisin hell like he was.....niggaz tried to kill him 2 years before that and he survived 5 shots and went against all odds and came back bigger and badder than ever.....u go and take 5 shots, get set up by ya homeboys, go to jail for a bullshit sexual assault charge, get abandoned by everyone u thought was ya rolldog and then come talk to me.....u couldnt survive one shot and u wouldnt last a day in prison, not to mention a maximum security prison like riker's.....and then come out and sell 10 million plus on your first album after gettin outta jail.....makin the first ever double cd in the history of hip hop....than after your death lets see u put out an album every year for ten plus years and go at least 2x platinum without any media or publicity to plug the albums.....how many albums has fatso biggie put out since his death???....how many has eazy-e put out??...how many has big pun put out??......there are fuckin classes on 2pac at fuckin harvard, yale, berkley, and like 20 other high profile colleges in the nation.....the top colleges in the country got classes on pac...and u think that these colleges would make a class on a "dumbass thug"??....u need to check yaself kid cause u just talkin out ya ass and bein disrespectful and hatin

• 22 - Michael

  Aug 05, 2003 at 4:01 pm

  I stand by what I said earlier... detach yourself...
  
  And to compare Tupac to ANY of our great Black leaders is just ridiculous. What did Tupac do to bring about change in society? What organization did he start? What social issues did he take a stand for? Do you know how silly you sound? The last thing we need is fools running around molding themselves in Tupac's image.

• 23 - Al Barger

  Aug 05, 2003 at 6:12 pm

  It appears that Joe has already looked into my fellatio suggestion. Sorry it didn't work out for you.
  
  Again a long screed about how great Tupac was without a single word having to do with MUSIC.
  
  As to 500 songs, it ain't the quantity but the quality. Steve Allen supposedly wrote 5,000+ songs- but not one of those that I've heard was worth a second listen. In fairness, I suppose I'd given Allen and Tupac credit for being industrious, having a good work ethic.
  
  Also, please learn to write sentences, with, ya know, paragraphs and grammar and such before you call ME "ignorant" or "mentally challenged." It'll carry more weight.
  
  Finally, the-feds-killed-Tupac is just a really dumb thing to say. There's absolutely no evidence of any such thing. Further, there's absolutely no conceivable reason why they'd want to.

• 24 - joe

  Aug 05, 2003 at 7:59 pm

  Mikey, you ask what did Pac do for society, and what social issues did he stand for, and what organizations he started? Ok, let's see. For all young American Americans, and pretty much the youth in America, Pac showed them how you can come from nothing and be something. He sent the message to all the ghettos throughout the nation where kids are in poverty, come from a broken home, have drug problems, etc. He stood for black America and he was the closest thing this generation has come to having a Malcolm X.
  
  Pac for going to start all of these youth group programs if he didn't die. He had plans to have a youth group organization called 'Nothing Gold'. He was also very much into politics. He said in the 2000 election that he was going to be heavily involved with a political group.
  
  Just because he died an untimely death and never had the chance to do these things doesn't mean you can say he never did anything.
  
  Him and Suge and Deathrow would always give annual Thanksgiving charity shows and give presents to all the youth in Compton. In fact, the night he was shot, him and Suge were on their way to Club 662 to raise money for the 'stop the violence' program. Pretty ironic huh?
  
  And "the last thing we need is a fool running around molding themselves into Pac's image," is that what you said? Hmmm, you should go tell that to Ja Rule, 50 Cent, Eminem, Nelly, Blachaze, DMX, Nas, Daz, Kurupt, Jay-Z, and all the rest of the rap industry that continues to "mold themselves into Pac's image."
  
  And my dear friend Albert, if you think that Pac's songs are of no quality, then you have no idea what quality MUSIC is partner. There, I said the word music, now you can get off that played out line of yours.
  
  And you say the Feds have no reason to kill Pac and that there is no evidence to support it? Really? It's funny how plenty of experts involved in Pac's death have written books about how much evidence there is to support the claim that the Feds killed Pac. And what other evidence is there to support some other bogus theory? The Feds killing Pac is just as valid as any other theory. Let me guess, you think 'Suge shot him'. Lol, and Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy too, right? Lol, spare me.
  
  p.s. Is my grammar and sentence structure up to your par now? I am a senior at Rutgers University on a Provost Scholorship and I am in the Honors College and in the College of Pharmacy. So don't even think for a minute that you are more educated then I am son. You are probably not even in college.

• 25 - Bling Bling

  Aug 05, 2003 at 8:11 pm

  Rutgers???? LMAO!!!!!!!!