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Musee d’ Morons: The Creation Museum

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Ya gotta love the Creation Museum that recently opened in one of America’s true cultural and intellectual hotspots, Petersburg, Kentucky. As far as dumbing down religion, the beliefs espoused at this “museum” rank up there with the Catholic Church’s long-held assertion that the sun revolves around the Earth.

Believe it or not, there are intelligent and educated creationists who actually acknowledge that the Earth is more than 6,000 years old. Rather than deny the validity of proven scientific techniques such as carbon dating, they look for ways to reconcile their strong Christian beliefs with the large base of archaeological and anthropological evidence that shows our planet to be millions of years old.

Like televangelists and Christian Coalition rhetoric, the Creation Museum is geared towards the lowest common denominator amongst Christians, and is either insulting, humorous, or both to those with an ability to read the Bible and think at the same time. The problem with evangelicals is that most are too lazy or lack the education to pick up the Bible and develop their own understanding of what it says without having it spoon-fed by a charismatic preacher in an Armani suit, or the help of a Christian theme park.

As an example, most backwoods Christians think that a “day” from the perspective of Creation means 24 hours. Many educated creationists point out that a “day” of Creation time could actually translate to millions or billions of years, and that the Bible does not specify Creation as being a finite process. With these constraints removed, reconciliation of science and the Bible is possible if one considers that evolution is an ongoing process used to implement Creation. Unfortunately, most evangelicals are too brainwashed to accept that possibility even if they could understand it.

So what’s my point here? It’s that religion has become so dumbed down in this era of mass media and technology that we have lost our ability to develop our own understanding of, and relationship with, God. We rely on snake oil salesmen like Jerry Falwell to spoon-feed us their interpretation of the Holy Scripture and blindly accept whatever we are told. It is this type of blind acceptance that Islamic fundamentalists use to convince uneducated and naïve young people to carry out their evil bidding of suicide bombs and murder, and is why religious fundamentalism of any kind is so dangerous.

Once we give up our willingness to read and understand the Bible for ourselves we cede control of an important aspect of our life to another. If this isn’t a reason to fight hard for secularism then I don’t know what is.

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About YABOSI

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    no one has seen one “kind” of animal change to another. Science is seeing/witnessed. Many witnessed Jesus many witnessed genesis accounts
    many archeologists has found cities and evidence that what was written in genesis did happen from flood to jericho…to sodom…..I can go on
    but macroevolution…never has been witnessed more faith required there than in genesis.

    the 6000 yrs and 7 days….is hard for some of you I know but don’t let that problem keep you from opening your heart to the bible.

    absolute

    why is the earth placed perfectly where it is and if anything happened we would be destroyed. No scientist can tell you who the lawgiver is. They search space for millions of miles hope to find life.
    Isaiah45:18 written long ago says
    For this is what the LORD says–
    he who created the heavens,
    he is God;
    he who fashioned and made the earth,
    he founded it;
    he did not create it to be empty,
    but formed it to be inhabited–
    he says:
    “I am the LORD,
    and there is no other.

    NARCISSISM

    the tendency to perceive the self as all-powerful and important and therefore entitled to criticize or belittle others, this individual often gives the impression of being vain and arrogant.

    I have not belittled anyone here I have not been vain Weakness is knowing God is all powerful, and I am nothing Yes I’m weak God is good
    Jesus is my Lord

    SODAM AND GOMORRAH

    Is this just a story? Archeologist thought so till they found remnants right where the bible said several cities exist. not only that they found deposits of sulfur on the rooftops just like God said in his word. and there is more They discovered a fualt line and determined that a catestrophic event took place. this was located near the dead sea. the pillar of salt is thought to have originated from the fact that the most likely escape was near the sea where waves must have been huge. The felt that Lots’ wife easily could have been washed away by a salt wave thus a pillar of salt. GO AHEAD JUST GOOGLE SODOM AND GOMORRAH

  • Elroy Balgaard

    I am probably just throwing pearls to swine: They have also discovered Noa’s Arc on Mount Ararat

    Pharoe’s Chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea

  • http://www.yabosi.com Yabosi

    Wow…looks like I ruffled a few panties here.

    Please note that my article doesn’t say that the Bible is a pack of lies, but does point out that those who submit to being spoon-fed fundamentalist/literal intrepretations by televangelists and others who claim to know the Bible’s truth and context are fools in my humble opinion.

    It’s also important to note that views of creationists can vary broadly, and there are those who are able to remove the artificial/fundamentalist constraints put in place by staunch evangelicals as they attempt to reconcile science and Scripture.

    If someone like Jerry Falwell tells you that based on his interpretation of the Holy Scripture that he quotes and interprets for you, and his conversations with God via prayer, the sun does revolve around the earth, and that all opposing scientific and visual evidence is just an illusion created by Satan in order to tempt us away from seeing the truth, would you believe him?

    — Yabosi

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Well he did say that Hurricane Katrina was Gods wrath against liberalism and many Creationists seem to believe him.

  • http://www.cafepress.com/kristishead Kristi

    “With these constraints removed, reconciliation of science and the Bible is possible if one considers that evolution is an ongoing process used to implement Creation.”

    Yes I agree. I’d like to think Science and Religion are getting closer to walking hand in hand.

    I was raised Catholic and still attend Mass and worship within the Christian faith. It’s what I am comfortable with. However, I’ve learned to look at the bigger picture, and to have an open mind. I have respect for other religions and respect for science.

    This is my belief: Darwin’s Evolution is a way of explaining God’s creation process. Why not?

  • Leslie Bohn

    Because there’s no evidence for the existence of gods.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    #5 — May 31, 2007 @ 15:06PM — Kristi

    “This is my belief: Darwin’s Evolution is a way of explaining God’s creation process. Why not?”

    #6 — May 31, 2007 @ 15:15PM — Leslie Bohn

    “Because there’s no evidence for the existence of gods.”

    Les, you sound like you are right up (or down) there with the Bible thumping evangelicals.

    The cell on the end of a finger cannot “prove” the existence of an arm or a shoulder. That is why you cannot “prove” G-d’s existence. You can construct a paradigm that allows for such a possibility. That is as far as science can go. But logic on that level is way beyond you and the other militant atheists around here. Go join Dawkins (or whatever his name is) and all the others in his “amen corner”.

  • Was Interested

    The title with “Morons” ended interest for me in this. Would your rather be a moron or someone who looks down upon other people and calls them moron.

    It seems as though, this person sets themselves up high on a pedestal for being more “Intellectual” and then ruins themselves by belittling others.

    So on one side we have “dumb little ignorant blind followers” on the other hand we have “judgemental, belittling, better than you because I believe differently”. 1-1.

  • Leslie Bohn

    One can also construct a paradigm that allows for the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Ruvy.

  • Guest

    A cell has no brain and isn’t capable of rational thought. I don’t think that is an accurate analogy.

    #8, the definition of moron is foolish or lacking in judgement. People who believe in the literal interpretation of Creationism certainly fit that category because they disregard generations of research that even the Pope acknowledges has validity.

    And they are also tools at the hands of those who go around promoting Creationism (not all of who probably believe it). It is simply an agenda to instill religion into the public school system.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    That cell at the end of your pinky contains A DNA strand of genetic code that is more complicated than Windows Vista. If you have eyes to see and ears to hear and a brain to think, this is proof of a Super Intellegent Creator or God.

  • Guest

    Really? I thought that was a booger.

  • Anonymous

    Couldn’t it be proof of a superior alien race that created life on this planet? Perhaps they created dinosaurs, but didn’t like the way things were turning out, so just blasted the earth and started over.

    Sorry, I still don’t see proof of God.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    #5 — May 31, 2007 @ 15:06PM — Kristi

    “This is my belief: Darwin’s Evolution is a way of explaining God’s creation process. Why not?”

    Darwin thought that too, a statement like that was in his original “Origin of Species” on the last page. That statement plus other references to God were removed in the “Revised Origin of Species” which we read today.

    By the way Darwin was a racist. The Original title of “Origin of Species” was “On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.” Also read “Voyage of the Beagle” or “The Descent of Man” he viewed other races as different species.

    Hitler was greatly influenced by Darwin that is how he came up with the “Arian Race’. Stalin too was influenced by Darwin.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    Couldn’t it be proof of a superior alien race that created life on this planet? Perhaps they created dinosaurs, but didn’t like the way things were turning out, so just blasted the earth and started over.

    Your right! God is the “Ultimate Superior Alien” and he didn’t like the way things turned out so he destoyed it with the flood.

  • Anonymous

    Why can’t your God get it right the first time?

  • zingzing

    “If you have eyes to see and ears to hear and a brain to think, this is proof of a Super Intellegent Creator or God.”

    how so? although, i’ll grant you that those things are what was needed for us to create a religion and a god, and to be persuaded by it.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    Why can’t your God get it right the first time?

    Well actually he did, the Garden of Eden was perfect, then “Sin” came into the world.

  • zingzing

    “Why can’t your God get it right the first time?”

    BAM! oh my.

  • zingzing

    the garden of eden is a metaphor.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    how so? although, i’ll grant you that those things are what was needed for us to create a religion and a god, and to be persuaded by it.

    If you were walking through the wood and stumbled over a computer running Windows Vista, you would assume that this was created by an intelligent creator.

    Our human bodies are infinitely more complicated then that Dell computer yet we think we are just a result of random chance.

  • zingzing

    windows vista was developed by trial and error over the course of a few years.

    humans were developed by trial and error over the course of millions of years.

    of course one would assume that any man-made object was created by an intelligent creator, as long as one considers man “intelligent.” so i really don’t get your point.

    nature is quite capable of making “decisions” based on trial and error. that something complex should develop over a vast amount of time is not that hard to comprehend.

    at least, it’s no harder to comprehend than a single, unknowable entity that floats (or whatever it does) in an unknown place (heaven?) doing unknown (mysterious) things and one day deciding to create the universe… yeah…

  • Elroy Balgaard

    the garden of eden is a metaphor.

    Yeah, and so is the Flood, and the Parting of the Red Sea and the Ark of the Covenant and the 10 commandments and Jesus’s resurrection from the dead.

    How could Jesus be the second Adam if there was no original Adam? Not to mention the Bible mentions Jesus’s lineage all the way to Adam.

    The “Human Genome Project” recently determined that all of mankind came from one set of parents less than 20,000 years ago.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    If you were walking through the wood and stumbled over a computer running Windows Vista, you would assume that this was created by an intelligent creator.

    HA. I assume no such thing.

    Evolution doesn’t teach that we are the result of random chance, it teaches that we are the result of trial and error.

    Also, the dinosaurs died out millions of years before the flood, not during the flood as your insinuation (in comment 15). So why did God create dinosaurs, then wipe them out, then start over? That sounds like something more fallible, like an advanced species would do.

  • Anonymous

    The “Human Genome Project” recently determined that all of mankind came from one set of parents less than 20,000 years ago.

    And have you seen those parents represented in pictures? They are evolved from apes. And of course since there are NO dinosaur fossils that recent, you have just proven the Creation Museum to be a big hoax.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “That cell at the end of your pinky contains A DNA strand of genetic code that is more complicated than Windows Vista. If you have eyes to see and ears to hear and a brain to think, this is proof of a Super Intellegent Creator or God.”

    Sorry, Elroy. Mind you, I’m not telling you this as an atheist or an agnostic but as a firm believer in the Living G-d of Israel. The mere fact that something is more complicated that anything we can create does not prove the existence of G-d. It merely proves that life is very very complicated, and that we humans are not intelligent enough to clone it – yet.

    The parallel between the way the Ramba”n (Nahmanides) explains creation and the Big Bang theory (both concepts that assert that the universe is about 15 billion years old) – lends credence to the idea of a G-d existing, but does not PROVE it. Belief in G-d requires faith and trust, both. Logic just does not get you there.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    I would actually like to see a link to substantiate the claim that the Human Genome Project says that.

  • http://www.yabosi.com Yabosi

    Elroy

    I haven’t seen where the Human Genome Projects claims that we all came from a common set of parents less than 20K years ago (and I suspect that you’re misunderstanding the claim), but if we assume that if that’s true it still doesn’t conflict with idea of evolution.

    All it would imply is that the last major change to humanoid DNA was less than 20K years ago. It would in no way dispel the theory and associated anthropological evidence that we had ancestors with a similar DNA structure that changed (either by mutation/survival or adaptation out of necessity) to the one we have today.

    Yabosi

  • Elroy Balgaard

    HA. I assume no such thing.

    Good point, maybe a Mac running Tiger.

    Also, the dinosaurs died out millions of years before the flood, not during the flood as your insinuation (in comment 15). So why did God create dinosaurs, then wipe them out, then start over? That sounds like something more fallible, like an advanced species would do.

    If you want the long answer go the museum.

    But here are some quick bullet points:
    The flood killed most of the dinosaurs.
    Every single dinosaur fossil we find was killed in “A” food.
    After the flood they were referred to as “Dragons”
    There is a descriptions of a Brachiasaur or “Behemoth” in the Bible.
    Saint George is a saint for slaying a dragon that looked like a Velociraptor.
    There is a town in France named after a 3 horned dragon that looked like a Triceratops.
    Dinasours are still around today, Google it
    A prehistoric fish was just caught last week.
    Ica Stones are ancient Peruvian carvings with dinosaurs on them.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    oops “A” flood, not “A” food

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    with the NFL & rock-n-roll hall of fame, the reds, the indians,the browns&bengals, and some of the best amusement parks…ohio is a place to go……….oh don’t forget to swing by Creation Museum just to see it. It is less expensive than any of the previous to attend.

    ANSWERSINGENESIS.ORG is site

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Every single dinosaur fossil we find was killed in “A” flood.

    Well, I know this is false.

    A quick google on Saint George finds this:

    the dragon embodies a suppressed pagan cult…

    In Sweden, the princess rescued by Saint George is held to represent the kingdom of Sweden, while the dragon represents an invading army…..

    Okay, I’ve read enough. I won’t bother cutting and pasting that Saint George was an updated story of Zeus battling the Typhon.

    This isn’t proof of anything.

  • zingzing

    elroy: “Yeah, and so is the Flood, and the Parting of the Red Sea and the Ark of the Covenant and the 10 commandments and Jesus’s resurrection from the dead.”

    yep.

    “How could Jesus be the second Adam if there was no original Adam? Not to mention the Bible mentions Jesus’s lineage all the way to Adam.”

    ahh, the beauty of circular logic.

    “The “Human Genome Project” recently determined that all of mankind came from one set of parents less than 20,000 years ago.”

    it certainly does not.

    “The flood killed most of the dinosaurs.”

    the biblical flood? then why weren’t there dinosaurs on the ark?

    “Every single dinosaur fossil we find was killed in “A” food.”

    i’ve never heard any such thing.

    “After the flood they were referred to as “Dragons””

    ok, so are you saying that “dragons” actually existed (and that they were dinosaurs)?

    “There is a descriptions of a Brachiasaur or “Behemoth” in the Bible.”

    same with lots of old, dead religious texts. you’ll find a lot of your christian beliefs in “prehistoric form” there too. have a look!

    “Saint George is a saint for slaying a dragon that looked like a Velociraptor.”

    you’ve seen pictures? i’ve seen pictures… didn’t look like a velociraptor. but, i admit that it was probably the bones of a dinosaur that got people thinking that there were dragons in the world. because some people are… delusional.

    “There is a town in France named after a 3 horned dragon that looked like a Triceratops.”

    wow!

    “Dinasours are still around today, Google it”

    i agree.

    “A prehistoric fish was just caught last week.”

    you mean a type of fish that hasn’t changed for quite some time? or do you mean that this same fish was alive in prehistoric times? i don’t quite get you.

    “Ica Stones are ancient Peruvian carvings with dinosaurs on them.”

    uh huh. you mean that the bones of dinosaurs were around back then too? or maybe peruvians have imaginations. what about those flying bird things with all the feathers and the big beaks? dunno what those are called. did those actually exist too? after all, we have pictures.

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    elroy is cool!

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    Job 40:15-24 (King James Version)
    King James Version (KJV)
    Public Domain

    15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

    16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

    17He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

    18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

    19He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.

    20Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.

    21He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.

    22The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.

    23Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.

    24He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

    SOUND LIKE DINO TO ME

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    We all have the same facts, same science—it is not religion vs. science!
    We all have the same facts. We live on the same earth, we look at the same rocks and fossils and so on. How we interpret those facts is directly influenced by our presuppositions. If we start out with a naturalistic presupposition, then we will interpret the facts devoid of God. If we start out with a biblical presupposition, we will see the facts as including the Creator’s work.

    Since we were not there in the beginning, shouldn’t we rely on the eyewitness account of the One who was there instead of relying on the fallible reasoning of mankind who wasn’t there? We should rely on God’s accurate historical record found in the book of Genesis. From this starting point, we can properly interpret the evidence to explain how the universe was created.
    A religious perspective is given, often called “science,” but is really humanism trying to disguise itself as science. This humanism mistakenly equates origins (historical) science with operational (repeatable) science. For the most part, we openly agree on operational science, but origins science is where differences arise.

    When religion was supposed to have been kicked out of the classroom, it really only removed Christianity and replaced it with another religion—humanism. One of the teachings of this religion is:

    Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change. Humanists recognize nature as self-existing. We accept our life as all and enough, distinguishing things as they are from things as we might wish or imagine them to be.1
    This religious document has original signatures of adherents such as Dr. Eugenie Scott, Dr. Richard Dawkins, and Ed Kagin, revealing their bias for the teaching of their religion of humanism in the classroom.2 RR also openly links to Dr. Scott’s organization,3 the National Center for Science Education, and has a letter by Mr. Kagin.4

    As Christians, we have a basis for doing science, since God created laws of nature to work in uniform fashion. In fact, this is how science got started by Christians who understood this biblical view. In fact, most fields of science were developed by Bible-believing Christians. So, it is still fascinating that modern evolutionists today say Christians don’t believe gravity exists and so on—it was a creationist, Isaac Newton, who developed this field more than most! Even today, great work is still being done by Christians. For example, young-earth creationist, Dr. Raymond Damadian, invented the MRI.

    From a naturalistic perspective where ideas are prone to change, why is it that they borrow the Christian view that laws of science don’t change? It seems hypocritical to borrow from the Bible, which they are arguing against! Now, let’s take a look at the claims of the handout.

    The evidence of a recent creation is vast, and in order to correct those who would attack us, we accept the challenge, using the challenge riposte method. We want the author and supporter of these attacks to realize we do this to help them and others realize the Bible is true and can be defended.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Elroy, your willful ignorance is breathtaking. To put a quick bullet hole through your bullet points:

    – Genesis makes no mention of dinosaurs.
    – For dead organisms to be preserved as fossils usually requires specific conditions involving sedimentary deposition and pressure, which often involves the action of water. That does NOT mean that all fossilized organisms were killed by flooding.
    – ‘Dragon': an arbitrary translation of a Hebrew word for which there is no exact English equivalent.
    – The description in Job is simply of a really big animal. Sure, the brachiosaurus was a really big animal, but so is an elephant.
    – Velociraptor? Shucks, just looks like a regular old dragon in all the versions I’ve seen, read and heard. And I bet you’d never even heard of a velociraptor until Jurassic Park came out.
    – Looks like a triceratops, does it? Well, certain flowers look like birds. Doesn’t mean they are birds.
    – Just because some modern reptile species were around in the age of the dinosaurs doesn’t make them dinosaurs. There were also mammals back then, you know. They weren’t dinosaurs either.
    – If the fish was caught last week, it’s not prehistoric.
    – The Ica Stones are a hoax, and not a very good one at that.

    Got any more straws you can clutch at?

  • zingzing

    only thing he’s clutching is the bible.

    me? i got my dick. and i’m DANCING.

  • http://www.yabosi.com Yabosi

    So let me ask this to whoever wants to answer…

    Do you think that religion is being dumbed down by televangelists and others who are getting rich off of Christianity, and that people are more willing to be spoon-fed the Bible?

    Also, we’ve seen how dangerous Islamic fundamentalism is. I’d say that any type of religious fundamentalism has be potential to be just as dangerous (i.e., Christianity and the Inquisition, Crusades,…). Should we be concerned that the U.S. could become a Christian version of Iran?

    You probably can figure out my opinion on these topics from reading the blog, but I’m curious as to everyone else’s ideas and why you’d agree or not…

    Yabosi

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    #34, sounds like an elephant to me.

  • Dr Dreadful

    #36: Are you really SR, pretending to be zingzing? 😉

  • zingzing

    steve, my comment about my dick was #36, not #34.

    i’ll thank you for noticing, however.

    *sorry–that’s the last on my dick.*

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Do you think that religion is being dumbed down by televangelists and others who are getting rich off of Christianity, and that people are more willing to be spoon-fed the Bible?

    Yes, I think people want to be considered religious but don’t really want to take the time to do the effort (reading and changing lifestyle). Why would someone take a literal interpretation of Genesis but not a literal interpretation of smearing dove’s blood all over their walls or burning oxen? Because their leaders have told them to take a literal interpretation of Genesis. They don’t think for themselves.

    And their leaders told them that in an effort to get religion taught as fact. That’s why I call them tools.

    Jesus was against the hoarding of wealth and money changers in the temple, yet fundamentalists today think nothing of glass cathedrals and multimillionare televanglists who live in mansions while many are homeless and starve.

    Should we be concerned that the U.S. could become a Christian version of Iran?

    I think we are almost already there. Do you know the difference between a cult and a religion? The number of followers. Nothing else.

  • zingzing

    doc: “#36: Are you really SR, pretending to be zingzing? ;-)”

    no… this is just me on a good day. when i’m feeling shitty, i get serious. when i’m feeling good… and i’m feeling so damn good… i get stupid.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Let’s say there’s a religion that teaches a talking turtle fed some seaweed to an ape, the ape got sick and vomited. Out came the first human. If someone told you they believed that LITERALLY, you would think they are wacko, right?

    So let’s break some numbers down.

    Number of believers:

    1 = wacko
    10 = clan
    100 = church
    1,000 = cult
    100,000 = sect
    1,000,000 = denomination
    10,000,000 = organized religion

    so religion is really nothing but a bunch of wackos.

  • zingzing

    i think elroy got eaten by a dragon.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    Dinosaurs are mentioned in Genesis in chapter one, we are told “and God created the great sea monsters.”3 The word for “sea monster” or “great whales” in Hebrew is tannin which is most frequently translated “dragons.” Evidently this term includes all large monsters, even those now extinct.

    Every time I read an article in National Geographic about a new fossil that is found, they mention that is was probably killed in a flood. The only way fossils are created is to kill somehting than bury it quickly in a layer of silt under pressure. If it is killed on the open plains, scavangers will spread it around then the wind an rain and erosion will make it disappear. The reason we have such a rich fossil history is because of “The” flood.

    Aslo there is a lot of Geological evidence of the “Great Flood”
    The Grand canyon for instance.

    Elephants don’t have tails like Cedar Trees.

    OK the dragon that Saint George killed may not have been a Velociraptor. Remember they just called them dragons. But it is certainly some sort of now Extinct Lizard. They are probably extint becasue we killed them all.

    As far as the Human Genome Project thing it was on page 17 in the local paper a few of years ago. Can not find it for now, I emailed them to find it. Here is a good video that touches on it. Although he is aproaching the data from an Evolutionary point of view. He mentions 10,000 ancestors 50,000 years ago.

    Good Video

  • Elroy Balgaard

    I’m trying to post a link to a Google Video called:

    Creationist Kent Hovind Reveals The Truth About Dinosaurs And Evolution!

    but it won’t let me.

    So you’ll just have to go to Google Video and search for it.

  • sr

    Interesting thread. I made a comment on another threat last week that creation and evolution are a choice. If I were on my death bed I would choose wisely. Eternity last more then a week. Just a thought. Never received one comment. How sad. Maybe I’ll strike gold hear however I sincerely douth it.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    There are no human fossils or artifacts found with dinosaurs, and there are no dinosaur fossils found with human fossils (except birds, which are descended from dinosaurs). Furthermore, there is an approximately sixty-four-million-year gap in the fossil record when there are neither dinosaur nor human fossils. If humans and dinosaurs coexisted, traces of the two should be found in the same time places. At the very least, there should not be such a dramatic separation between them.

  • zingzing

    “The reason we have such a rich fossil history is because of “The” flood.”

    no, it’s because of many floods.

    “The Grand canyon for instance.”

    and the one that created the badlands.

    and the great lakes.

    many, many floods have occurred, even in older religious texts. the great flood is a mythological event, like just about everything else in the old testament: it is a story.

    “They are probably extint becasue we killed them all.”

    yes, humans killed all the lizards. even those that exists millions of years before we did…

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Elephants don’t have tails like Cedar Trees.

    You are misinterpreting your own fable. You didn’t say the behemoth had a tail LIKE a cedar tree. You said:

    He MOVETH his tail like a cedar

    That means it sways back and forth like the leaves on a cedar tree. Or like an elephants tail.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    If I were on my death bed I would choose wisely. Eternity last more then a week. Just a thought. Never received one comment. How sad.

    Well, how about this one. When you are on your deathbed, we hope you choose wisely too.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    no one has seen one “kind” of animal change to another.
    Science is seeing/witnessed.

    No, science is using the data at hand to determine what happened. One person can kill another and nobody sees it, but science can prove he did it.

    but macroevolution…never has been witnessed
    more faith required there than in genesis.

    Evolution happens over generations, so it is impossible to witness. However, we can see from the bones of our ancestors only hundreds of years ago, changes. We are taller for example. Facial features have changed since the days of Marie Antoniette even.

    Why do you think googling Sodom and Gomorrah will get us to disregard evolution? Many cities were destroyed by volcanic eruptions in our past, St. Pierre, Pompeii, the list goes on and on. Doesn’t mean it was done by God. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t, but doesn’t mean it was.

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    Noahs ark held only the kinds of animals. Did you know there were approximately 20 breeds of dogs only 100 years ago? There was at one time only a few breeds and not that long ago….Kinds of animals are a very small percentage to species. Only land animals and birds were required. Bible says nostril breathing. Insects and water creatures not needed. Want to know more…then seek and you will find.
    just alittle more info on the arks likelihoods……The ark according to bible was as 80% the size of the titanic. It would easily hold 10000 animals the size of a medium dog……all animals would be young to procreate and not have to consume so much food.
    The largest Baby dinos were no larger than a sheep. Many vessels were built only a few hundred years after noahs ark that were almost that size. Noah had God on his side. You must read closely Genesis 6,7,8.Noah and flood was 4400 years ago. Look at the history of large vessels being built. So much you don’t know here

    Parables were Jesus’s way of teachi ng to the believer. You again must read your Bible. The devil is the great deciever and has power beyond your imagination as well as God. If the world was created by God or the Satan if you wish it be…then he could surely make a serpant talk.

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    Written 2000 years ago about those today
    3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

    4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

    5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

    6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

    7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

    This talks about how naysayer will scoff at flood and the word.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    but macroevolution…never has been witnessed

    1) The evidence for evolution does not depend, even a little, on observing macroevolution directly. There is a very great deal of other evidence.

    2) As biologists use the term, macroevolution means evolution at or above the species level. Speciation has been observed and documented. I recommend you look up the definition of speciation.

    3) Because there is no known barrier to large change and because we can expect small changes to accumulate into large changes, microevolution implies macroevolution. Small changes to developmental genes or their regulation can cause relatively large changes in the adult organism.

    4) There are many transitional forms that show that macroevolution has occurred:

    entouch.net

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO SEE HOW THESE MEN WITHOUT ANY PROOF(ONLY THEORIES) FORMED THE AVERAGE PERSONS’ THINKING OF AN OLD EARTH.
    Summary of the old-earth proponents for long ages
    men who said proposed age date when said
    Comte de Buffon 78 thousand years old 1779
    Abraham Werner 1 million years 1786
    James Hutton Perhaps eternal 1795
    Pièrre LaPlace Indefinite, long ages 1796
    Jean Lamarck Long ages 1809
    Georges Cuvier Untold ages 1812
    Charles Lyell GEOLOGIC column 1830–1833
    William Smith Untold ages 1835
    Charles Darwin
    Earnst Haeckel
    Lord Kelvin origen of species
    forged embryo art
    20-100 million years mid 1800’s
    mid 1800’s
    1862–1899
    Arthur Holmes 1.6 billion years 1913

    NOTICE HOW FROM 1779 TO 1786, THEY WENT FROM
    78,000 TO 1,000,000 YEARS. AND PEOPLE BELIEVED IT!

    THEN HUTTON, A WORLD RENOWNED THINKER (WHO HATED THE BIBLE) SAYS WITH NO BASIS THAT
    THE WORLD WAS…QUOTE “PERHAPS ETERNAL”

    THEN CHARLES LYELL(WHOSE WRITINGS DRIP WITH HATE OF THE BIBLE OFF THE PAGES) CREATED THE GEOLOGIC
    COLUMN…THAT ISN’T EVEN REAL(DOESNT EXIST!!!!)BUT THE AVERAGE PERSON ACCEPTED HIS WRITINGS AS FACT CAUSE 95% OF THE POPULATION WAS NOT EDUCATED ENOUGH TO KNOW ANY BETTER.

    THEN CHARLES DARWIN MADE MOST BIBLE BELIEVING CHURCH GO-ERS DOUBT THE BIBLE TIMELINE. AND MOST OF HIS WRITINGS TODAY HAVE ALL BEEN PROVEN FALSE.

    TODAYS’ METHODS OF DATING THE AGES OF THINGS HAVE MANY FLAWS AND ARE BASED ON THE GEOLOGIC COLUMN WHICH IS NOT EVEN REAL!!!!!

    YOU CAN BELIEVE IT OR NOT…..BUT THINGS ARE NOT AS OLD AS THEY SAY THEY ARE. THERE IS NO PROOF FOR THESE AGES. ALL TEACHERS/SCIENTISTS/COLLEGE PROFESSORS/RESEARCHERS THAT ARE PAID BY OUR TAX DOLLARS(NOT PRIVATE DOLLARS) WOULD BE FIRED IF THEY SAID THE EARTH WAS 1000’S NOT MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD.

    Mr. Ray

    LASTLY EARNST HAECKEL FAKED EMBRYO DRAWINGS(SEE BELOW) AND PEOPLE BELIEVED IT…. LEADING TO THE THOUGHT WE ALL CAME FROM ONE ORIGINAL ORGANISM. EVEN THOUGH HE WAS CONVICTED…HIS DRAWINGS ARE STILL IN TEXT BOOKS TODAY!

    Top row: Haeckel’s drawings of several different embryos, showing incredible similarity in their early ‘tailbud’ stage.
    Bottom Row: Richardson’s photographs of how the embryos really look at the same stage. (From left: Salmo salar, Cryptobranchus allegheniensis, Emys orbicularis, Gallus gallus, Oryctolagus cuniculus, Homo sapiens.) Many modern evolutionists no longer claim that the human embryo repeats the adult stages of its alleged evolutionary ancestors, but point to Haeckel’s drawings (top row) to claim that it repeats the embryonic stages. However, even this alleged support for evolution is now revealed as being based on faked drawings. Click here for larger image.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    Ray is cool!

  • Dr Dreadful

    So what are they, Elroy, sea monsters, great whales or (if you insist) dragons? It sure seems like the Genesis author(s) is referring to aquatic creatures. You seem to have arbitrarily decided that ‘evidently’ the word refers to land animals as well.

    And no, the large marine reptiles of prehistory, such as the ichthyosaurs, were not dinosaurs either.

    The reason we have such a rich fossil record is not because of a single global flood (if it was, the fossils would all be located in the same sedimentary layer) but because of the immense span of time available for them to be formed.

    …Page 17 of the local paper. Hmm… always a really good source of hard scientific data.

  • JC Mosquito

    The Bible isn’t a history or science text for the 20th time.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    That means it sways back and forth like the leaves on a cedar tree. Or like an elephants tail.

    The text in Job referring to the tail of the Behemoth moving like a Cedar, is God’s description of how the Behemouth is the greatest of all Animals, he is trying to inspire awe in us. If he were talking about an Elephant, wouldn’t he talk, OH I don’t know about his TRUNK or BIG EARS, the tail of an elephant is probalby its least remarkable characteristic!

  • Elroy Balgaard

    Did you hear the one about the Japanese fishing vessel that caught a Pleisiasaur in 1977?

  • zingzing

    you’ll believe ANYTHING, won’t you?

  • Elroy Balgaard
  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    If he were talking about an Elephant, wouldn’t he talk, OH I don’t know about his TRUNK or BIG EARS

    you question God? Perhaps he’s talking about a crocodile. That fits too.

    And your link to the ‘Pleisiasaur’, says nobody knows what it was and now it can’t be found.

    NOTICE HOW FROM 1779 TO 1786, THEY WENT FROM
    78,000 TO 1,000,000 YEARS. AND PEOPLE BELIEVED IT!

    And in about 50 years we went from Orville’s flying jalopy to nuclear jet fusion. Your point?

  • zingzing

    elroy–what’s your point? that dinosaurs still roam the earth? yes, it is true, the decendents of some dinosaurs, and some creatures that haven’t really changed all that much since the time of dinosaurs, are still around. it’s true.

    so what?

  • Elroy Balgaard

    so what?

    That is the point, man and dinosaurs have always lived together and still do. Because they were created on the same day.

    Nessie

  • zingzing

    uh. huh.

  • richCares

    strange that the Chinese, Sumerians, and Egyptians have written histories long before the so called time of the flood, guess they weren’t told, some neglected to tell them of the flood. Chinese written history goes back 8000 years and no flood. those famouse clay statues in China weren’t destroyed by the flood, WOW. There are many caves world wide that have animal drawings in them yet no dinosaur drwaings (except for the hoaxes that bible thumpers love)
    your choice to be stupid and avoid real science can severely hurt our economy. We could all wind up being like those poor bible thumping hillbillies on welfare.

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    This is not implied to be sea creature…Job though in middle of bible was thought to be earliest author…1st 5 books were by Moses who saw God as burning bush and got revelation for 1st 5 books and wrote genesis story…get to know your bible before criticizing it

    Job 40:15-24 (King James Version)
    King James Version (KJV)
    Public Domain

    15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

    16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

    17He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

    18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

    19He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.

    20Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.

    21He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.

    22The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.

    23Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.

    24He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

  • Leslie Bohn

    I suspect “Elroy” us having a little fun with us. It is indeed amusing, but in truth, “Elroy,” there are people in the world who actually believe the funny stuff you’re parodying here. You’ve got the tone right.

    Remember, there are some folks who’ll believe anything, as was rightly pointed out by zz. In fact, if one was so inclined, one could even profit materially by exploiting that sort of gullibility.

    Hmmmmmmm.

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    Creation
    4004 BC

    Curse
    4004 BC (Day 10 after creation)

    Global Flood
    2348 BC

    Tower Babel
    2242 BC

    Egypt began
    After 2242 BC but prior to Abraham going to Egypt (Genesis 12)

    Call of Abraham
    1922 BC

    Ice Age peak
    1848 BC (500 years after the Flood)

    Time of the Judges (Moses was first)
    1491 BC (God appearing to Moses in the burning bush)

    Time of the Kings (Saul was the first)
    1095 BC

    Split kingdom
    975 BC

    Christ was born
    ~4 BC

  • Elroy Balgaard

    strange that the Chinese, Sumerians, and Egyptians have written histories long before the so called time of the flood

    You right and they actually all have flood stories.

    And the Ancient Chinese Language Supports Creation.

    The Bible describes a world wide flood catastrophe in which all human life with the exception of eight individuals on a floating vessel were destroyed. The Chinese symbol for boat is vessel, eight, and people.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    I imagine that right now, you’re feeling a bit like Alice. Hmm? Tumbling down the rabbit hole? You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland and I show you just how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

    The Lineage of Adam, to King David, the Kings of Israel, through Irish, Scottish and English Royalty, to modern Queen of England

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    Four generations after Noah, Genesis 10:25 records the birth of Peleg (meaning division) ‘for in his days was the earth divided’. Some suggest the continents of the earth were divided at this time. However, this seems unlikely, as such a process would have had to occur within a very confined time period. The resultant geological violence would be overwhelmingly catastrophic—like another Noahic Flood all over again. Any continental separation thus likely occurred during the Flood.

    The traditional interpretation, which seems more reasonable, relates this verse to the division of people/nations at the Tower of Babel event in Genesis 11. (Just like the English ‘earth’ can have a variety of meanings, the Hebrew erets can also mean nation(s)—thus erets Yisrael, the land (nation, people) of Israel.) According to the biblical chronology as deduced by Archbishop Ussher, the Flood occurred in 2349–2348 BC, and Peleg was born in 2247 BC about a hundred years later. Do ancient writers shed any light on when this happened? The answer is a resounding yes.

    BABYLON BEGINS
    The year was 331 BC. After Alexander the Great had defeated Darius at Gaugmela near Arbela, he journeyed to Babylon. Here he received 1903 years of astronomical observations from the Chaldeans, which they claimed dated back to the founding of Babylon. If this was so, then that would place the founding of Babylon in 2234 BC, or about thirteen years after the birth of Peleg. This was recorded in the sixth book of De Caelo (‘About the heavens’) by Simplicius, a Latin writer in the 6th century AD. Porphyry (an anti-Christian Greek philosopher, c. 234–305 AD) also deduced the same number.

    EGYPT EMERGES
    The Byzantine chronicler Constantinus Manasses (d. 1187) wrote that the Egyptian state lasted 1663 years. If correct, then counting backward from the time that Cambyses, king of Persia, conquered Egypt in 526 BC, gives us the year of 2188 BC for the founding of Egypt,3 about 60 years after the birth of Peleg. About this time Mizraim, the son of Ham, led his colony into Egypt. Hence the Hebrew word for Egypt is Mizraim4 (or sometimes ‘the land of Ham’ e.g. Psalm 105:23,27).

    Writing from Larry Pierce

  • Dan

    I’ll take the red pill Elroy.

    The fascinating thing about the creationism museum is the protestsers. They appeared to be like a mob on opening day. It’s not like their tax dollars are going to fund it.

    Unlike the nearby “Freedom Center” that loses yearly. Now there’s some mythology for you.

    Can anyone explain why life hasn’t been created in the laboratory? Single cell, should be easy. Just mix up some primordial soup and electrify.

    There was though, a scientist who created a virus. It was one of the deadly ones, I forget which. I don’t think it qualifies. It can replicate though.

    The best refutation of the ‘evolutionary chance origination of life theory’ that I’ve seen comes from probability science. Scientist’s who are good with numbers. They catch a lot of scorn, but their brain power intimidates.

    Some are even atheist’s.

    Their basic outline is that recent discoveries have leaned toward the idea that life, on the cellular level, is much more complex than Darwin, or anybody 30 years ago could have invisioned.

    That’s not important except that mankinds existence probably hasn’t been a long enough interval for evolutionary processes of the kind that are needed to occur.

    It’s like if you were to try flipping a coin for 24 hours until you achieved 20 heads in a row. You wouldn’t make it. But according to them, it’s like a couple thousand consecutive heads. theoretically possible, but grotesquely improbable.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    Remember that other “Analogy” the Tower of Babel?

    Guess what, that happened too.

    The Bible describes that man was told to spread out over the earth after the worldwide flood yet he rebelled and built a tower to his own glory. God ended this rebellion by confusing man’s languages so that they set out and journeyed across the globe in different language groups.

    Interestingly the Chinese chose to use the identical symbol for confusion and rebellion…a combination of tongue and right leg (or journey).

    If you study the history linguistics, you’ll find that approximately 4,000 years ago all of mankind spoke one common and unknown language. There are remnants of this lost language that are found in every language today from the Eskimos to the Aboriginies. The number “three” for instance.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Indeed, zing, he will believe anything… as long as it fits in with his prejudices. Links to one piece of pseudoscientific wish-fulfilment after another.

    Still, I can excuse the ramblings of Elroy and the terminally incoherent RayJ (who is sadly typical of his species) as the misguided drivelings of enthusiastic amateurs with no imagination. But then Elroy invoked the notorious Kent Hovind, and that I can’t let pass.

    Mr Hovind, unlike these two clowns, really knows his subject. And I mean really. He has done the research and knows full well that the science does not support creationism; yet he and other ‘creation scientists’ like him persist in willfully misrepresenting the evidence in order to please their gullible followers. His is the kind of intellectual dishonesty which I despise.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    Oh you’ve heard of him? I think he’s great.
    I guess that means I drank the Koolaid, Hook, Line and Sinker.

  • Dr Dreadful

    I hope you enjoyed the Kool-Aid, but I imagine the hook, line and sinker gave you a bit of a sore throat. May I suggest penicillin?

    Were there penicillin bacilli on the Ark? The species needn’t have taken up much room as only one would have been needed, not two.

  • Anonymous

    So man was vain and built the tower of babel to glorify himself and was punished. Certainly now if you consider plastic surgery, hollywood, and things like the washington monument or the eiffel tower (phallic symbols), we have far far surpassed the vanity of people thousands of years ago.

    Did God just give up? We didn’t learn our lesson and have exceeded it.

    He’s not very effective in his teachings, is he? Also, different languages isn’t a barrier to us anymore.

    Does anybody have a more effective God they wish us all to live under?

  • sr

    As sure as we are born we shall also die. It’s not to be feared because we are all caught up in this life without understanding. His their a heaven or a hell. For certain I do not want to go to hell. We must all make wise decisions where we want to go. I have made my choice years ago. Dont ever except either side but learn for yourself and make a wise decision. Your eternity can very well depend upon it. Thanks for listing to my rant.

  • sr

    Is it a sin for someone to take their own life? Thank you.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    I’ve been reading the comments going back and forth here, watching what ignorance can do in causing people to misinterpret, misunderstand, and ultimately reject a text of Divine wisdom.

    Try this on for size. A greater light interacted with a lesser light for 15 billion years, eventually creating enough energy for a huge huge huge explosion. That explosion took place 15 billion years ago, and created a universe of 11 dimensions, seven of which shrunk (or broke) almost immediately, leaving three dimensions and space/time.

    Thus, according to the Kabbalah, the process of creating the universe began about 30 billion years ago, the actual yetzirá (the creation, i.e. the Big Bang) 15 billion years ago with evolution developing life in spurts – this is backed up by the geologic record.

    Looking forward, (the Torah looks forward) there were six ages (days) of development of earth and life on it. Looking backwards (science looks backwards) there were about 15 billion years divided into six ages with each age about twice as long as the one subsequent. “Real time” (history) begins with a spirit that communicates with G-d (neshamá) placed in a man. In the Torah, this man is known as Adam. To the Sumerians, he is known as Adapa. The evidence we have for this act is the development of writing. While many histories and prehistories go back far beyond 6,000 years, the oldest known source of WRITING goes back 5,500 years.

    As for dinosaurs and the like, there are three interesting Biblical sources to look at, two of which have been mentioned here. One is the “tanín” (Genesis): a real translation has not yet been discovered. The second is the “behemá” [plural “behemót” – behemoth](Job), which does sound like a dinosaur. I will note that in Yiddish and in Hebrew both, a “behemá” means a huge dumb beast, with the emphasis on its stupidity. These meanings are far older than our awareness of dinosaurs. Finally, in the book of Leviticus we see the “tinshemet”, listed in two categories of food forbidden to the Children of Israel. One category of forbidden food is birds, and the second category is reptiles. Dinosaurs were reptiles, and their descendants are birds.

    Have fun, guys.

    I gotta see how you wreck this…

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Oh,

    I’m not implying here that dinosaurs still live, though their descendants certainly do. G-d was lecturing Job, and as part of that lecture, He mentions the behemót as an example, along with the leviatán [“leviathan”] (which in modern Hebrew means “whale”). Are they indeed dinosaurs? Is the leviatán indeed an ancient sea-going dinosaur? I don’t know. I don’t claim to, either.

  • SonnyD

    sr: Wow, I was getting ready to make some wise crack about some of the things I’ve read in this thread when you came up with this question in #83.

    If you are seriously asking for an opinion, I’ll give you my two cents worth. Is it a sin? No, I don’t buy the idea that such a thing as sin even exists. However, is it a good idea to cut one’s own life short? Maybe not.

    In your previous comment, you brought up the subject of heaven and hell. I don’t buy those concepts, either, but the question suggests the possibility that you entertain the idea that we may be aware of ourselves as individuals after leaving the physical body. If that turns out to be true, then there is also the possibility that we chose to enter this physical existence for a reason. Or, if you believe there is some creative intelligent entity that put us here, then you may believe that was also for a reason.

    This leads to the question, have we completed what we came here for? As long as we are capable of rational thought, have we developed the deepest understanding of ourselves that we will ever have? Have we understood our relationships with others to the best of our ability? Have we experienced the strongest, purest emotions that a human is able to have. Have we left problems unsolved for others to deal with? Have we forgiven others for mistakes they may have made in dealing with us? Have we forgiven ourselves for the mistakes we have made. And, last but not least, life has a way of throwing new things in our path when we least expect it. How do you know what tomorrow may bring? Whether it’s something good or bad, it may be the most important thing you came here for. Now, seriously, would you want to live through this whole joke we call life and then miss the punch line?

  • Elroy Balgaard

    A greater light interacted with a lesser light for 15 billion years

    Where did the lights come from?

    And I heard it was 16 Billion years.

    I mean whats a billion years here or there.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “Where did the lights come from?

    “Y’hí or, va’y’hí or” [Genesis 1:3]

    “‘There will be light’ – and there was light.” The word light (or) is repeated in the Hebrew. From this, m’kublalím interpret that there were two lights interacting with each other.

    This text “Y’hí or, va’y’hí khen” “‘There will light – and it was so’” would have led to a different interpretation. Each single word in Torah is accounted for and carries meaning.

    I do not remember the the rest (dealing with why it was 15 billion years), though I was there at the lecture. My apologies…

  • Guest

    One category of forbidden food is birds

    I knew Jews couldn’t eat pork, I had no idea you couldn’t eat chicken either.

    That aside, all these Creationists and other religious people keep going back to the Bible for their source in quoting stuff about the history of Man. Does nobody see why that cannot be done in a public school?

    We are entitled to believe what we want to believe, but we cannot teach Christian children, atheist children, Jewish children, Muslim children, Kwanzaa children, et. al. Christianity as fact on the taxpayer dollar!

    Period!

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jews are not prohibited from eating chicken!!! How the hell do you think we invented chicken soup to cure the common cold!!!

    Seriously, the Torah prohibits Children of Israel from eating birds of prey – owls, hawks, vultures (the Hebrew for vulture is “péres” – sound familiar?), etc. The tinshemet is listed in this group…

    I, for one, do not advocating teaching religious doctrine in public schools in America, except as an academic subject. So why is there a publicly supported Moslem school in Brooklyn?

  • Elroy Balgaard

    would you want to live through this whole joke we call life and then miss the punch line?

    Well you wouldn’t know that you missed the punchline because you’d just be dead. But, you would have lived your whole life believing in “something” anyway. And you would not have killed anybody and loved your neighbor, and had a happy fullffilled life. These concepts a Biblical by the way. Left to our own devices and natural law, it is survival of the fittest, eat your neighbor before he eats you.

    Plus Google “famous last words”, there is a point just before death when you are in both worlds. Believers will die saying something like “Grandma?” where as non-believers say things like “NOOOOHHH!!”

  • Anonymous

    These concepts a Biblical by the way. Left to our own devices and natural law, it is survival of the fittest, eat your neighbor before he eats you.

    This is already proven false. There are millions of athiests in this country and world who do not adhere to Biblical standards, yet have proven themselves to be far more ethical, moral, compassionate and caring than Christian fundamentalists.

    Believers will die saying something like “Grandma?” where as non-believers say things like “NOOOOHHH!!”

    If you google it, it must be true!

  • Elroy Balgaard

    We are entitled to believe what we want to believe, but we cannot teach Christian children, atheist children, Jewish children, Muslim children, Kwanzaa children, et. al. Christianity as fact on the taxpayer dollar!

    I agree! The only way to do this is to eliminate public education. Because you cannot separate Church and School. “Secular Humanism” is just the current “State Approved Religion”. It used to be Christianity and it looks like its heading towards the Muslim faith.

  • Dr Dreadful

    I just Googled “giant cat with gills” and apparently goldfish give interviews.

    Yes indeed – if it can be Googled, it must be true.

  • Guest

    The only way to do this is to eliminate public education. Because you cannot separate Church and School.

    Actually the majority of the public is fine with separating church and school. Only the small minority of Creationists have a problem with it, because it doesn’t promote their dogma. I suggest putting your child in a private school that teaches it whatever the hell you want. Then let your child enter the workforce and may the most knowledgeable student win the job.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    When I say you can’t separate Church and School, I mean anytime you’re teaching children where they come from how they should live and where they go after they die, that these are religious issues.

    Sure you can teach Reading, Writing and Arithmatc, but that’s about it. Science, History, Astronpomy, Philospphy, Psychology etc. all contain religious elements.

  • http://www.robot-of-the-week.com Christopher Rose

    But apparently you can’t teach spelling!

  • Nancy

    I don’t just believe – I KNOW birds are actually dinosaurs: every parakeet I’ve ever had has been a direct descendant of velociraptors!

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    If you’re going to write a title in a foreign language you might want to make it grammatically correct unless YOU want to end up in the Musee des Morons.

    Dave

  • sr

    SonnyD. I do thank you for your comment. Whether I agree with you or not Im not in a position to comment. That was never my intention. What we do know is their is an alpha and omega and somewhere in between we make a choice. Have a great day SonnyD. sr

  • sr

    Ruvy#91. So why is there a publicly supported moslem school in Brooklyn you ask. Simple answer. We are a country filled with dumbfuck liberals that use a jackass as their party emblem. The Rise and Fall of America coming to a theater near you.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    I don’t know why there is a publicly funded Muslim school. There shouldn’t be. Nor should we go on the premise that because one thing is wrong, it is okay for us to do wrong too.

    When I say you can’t separate Church and School, I mean anytime you’re teaching children where they come from how they should live and where they go after they die, that these are religious issues.

    Not at all. Evolution teaches the how, religion teaches the why. Evolution belongs in the school, religion belongs in the church because evolution ( the how) is the same for all of us but religion (the why) varies for all of us.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    and where they go after they die

    I missed commenting on this. No public school teaches that, that I am aware of. Evolution does not address that, it leaves it to the chuch and the individual to decide.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    I think the message that the public schools is sending is this:

    We are here by accident. There is no Creactor, there is no Heaven or Hell, so there are no consequences for the way we live. So “Party On Dude!”

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    I think the message that the public schools is sending is this

    Yes, but you also think that we are only 6,000 years old and sculpted out of dust. So we’re not surprised.

    there are no consequences for the way we live

    Ever heard of jail?

    You seem to think that only Christians have morality. Why is it that athiests don’t go on murderous rampages? Perhaps because you are wrong.

  • zingzing

    have you ever been to school?

  • zingzing

    that was for 105

  • Elroy Balgaard
  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    There are millions of athiests in this country, you cannot label them all for the actions of one or two, or else Christians might all be labeled as this murderer.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Just for you Elroy, here is a link paraphasing Falwell.

    link

    During a taping of the Christian Broadcasting Network’s 700 Club last Thursday, Rev. Jerry Falwell claimed that God had allowed America’s enemies to “give us what we probably deserve” because of the influence of, among others, homosexuals, liberal civil liberties groups, feminists and abortion rights supporters.

    The show’s host, Pat Robertson, summarily concurred with Falwell on all counts with a simple “well, yes.”

    So Elroy, turning to Christ doesn’t mean you value life if you think it’s okay for people who don’t conform to your views to be punished with death.

    Don’t try to lay claim to morality. More harm is done by religious people worldwide than nonreligious, period.

  • Dr Dreadful

    sr chastised: dumbfuck liberals that use a jackass as their party emblem.

    What about dumbfuck conservatives that use an animal with a penis coming out of its face (i.e. a dickhead) that tramples and dumps copiously on everything in its path, as their party emblem?

    Just as appropriate, I would say.

  • MCH

    True, Doc. And don’t forget that notorious right-wing bird, the chickenhawk.

  • sr

    Never looked at it that way doc. Damn your a funney guy. Good day to you sir. PS. Was watching animal planet the other day about elephants. This African male elephant had a dick as big as an oak tree. Just the right size for Rosie O” Donald. Could just see old fat Rosie bent over waiting for the beast to do his thing with her. You could make a movie called Dumbo does Rosie.

  • MCH

    “This African male elephant had a dick as big as an oak tree. Just the right size for Rosie O” Donald.”

    Or Rush Limbaugh…

  • Dr Dreadful

    sr referred to: Rosie O” Donald.

    Freudian slip there, sr? Taking into account the recent tempest in a hot beverage receptacle between Miss O’Donohue and Mr Trumpet?

  • Dr Dreadful

    I don’t know if I’d want to have a dick as big as an oak tree. I’d never find any pants to fit and I’m getting a bit old for a career in porn.

  • sr

    ya, but the elephant still has the big dick. Just dont drop the soap Doc when your at the local zoo.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Don’t worry sr, our local zoo uses liquid soap in its restrooms.

  • sr

    Now I can sleep knowing your safe Doc. Did I mention bed bugs?

  • Dr Dreadful

    No, you didn’t mention bed bugs, but that’s just one more reason not to work in porn.

  • STM

    DD: “I don’t know if I’d want to have a dick as big as an oak tree. I’d never find any pants to fit and I’m getting a bit old for a career in porn.”

    Yeah, Doc … just stick to strapping it to your leg. You sure you’re not an Aussie??

    And stinkey and SR most certainly are the same person.

  • Dr Dreadful

    just stick to strapping it to your leg. You sure you’re not an Aussie??

    Sadly not, Stan. But this does remind me of an old and horrible joke I once heard:

    Bruce, an Australian serviceman, is stationed in England during WWII. Being granted a little R and R, he heads into town for some how’s yer father. He duly finds a suitable lady friend and negotiates terms. As they are undressing, the harlot says, “You’ll have to be gentle with me, sir: I have a weak heart.”

    “Ah, that’s all right, Sheila,” says Bruce. “Lie on yer side and I’ll try to miss it.”

  • STM

    George Bush rings John Howard.

    Bush: “John, we’re in trouble. We’ve run out of condoms for our servicemen. Can you help?”

    Howard (grovelling): “Anything for you George … ”

    Bush: “Great, you man of steel … we need two million of them, and they should all be extra large.”

    Howard rings a lackey: “Mate, the Yanks have run out of condoms. They need two million of the bastards, all extra large. Get the packets printed up specially, with the words: Made in Australia, size: small.”

  • STM

    Or, a different theme on your joke: “Be gentle with me, I have acute angina”.

    “Thank heaven for that, because you’ve got shocking tits.”

    No fem backlash thanks … it’s just a joke.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    To tie this back to Creationism…

    Donkeys were selected for their stubborness (something the Dems of today need to be reminded of).

    But I digress. A donkey is related to the horse. A donkey bred with a horse gives us the hard working pack mule.

    And it was a donkey who carried a pregnant Mary to the stable (oh, how that must burn for some).

    And while the phrase ‘the elephant never forgets’ is actually false (we prefer ‘do not recall’ – Alberto Gonzalez), one might like to compare it’s trunk to a phallus, the truth is not far off the mark as the truck evolved for the purpose of sucking.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Blogcritics really should have a rule about cutting and pasting the same tripe repeatedly on the same thread.

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    I always try to present Gods’ message to the best of my ability the way my Lord would do it. Jesus wants more than anything for us to be more like him. I’m sorry that some of you need to ridicule me or Gods word to state some point. I am humbly saddened by the tone of Secular America. I will stand for the Bible(GODS’ WORD) and that alone. Go ahead call me names etc. Bible says christians will be persecuted…..so when it happens to me….his word is only confirmed. now as to me seeming perfect or something…not true….I’m a sinner as well once again verifying the Bible as the infallible holy word!

    God is angry only when sin occurs.
    Never will you find anger expressed for any other reason
    We know what God says sin is

    I’ve never had an angry tone in my comments

    Many have anger in their tone.

    I’m sorry that you guys harbor all this in your heart

    God gave us anger to use and he or Jesus is an example of how and when we should use it.

    Any other display of anger is sin according to what Jesus said.

    My quoting scriptures is because it is God not me that is the ultimate truth.
    I quote scripture or what I’ve learned from scripture.

    ANSWERSINGENESIS.ORG
    for the inquiring minds

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    I always try to present Gods’ message to the best of my ability the way my Lord would do it.

    By boring them to death with repetition?

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    And there is no anger in comment 128 or 130. Just pity and frustration.

  • http://www.yabosi.com Yabosi

    So here are the first 5 verses of the KJ Bible…

    1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
    1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
    1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    It says that God created the heaven and earth at around the same time.

    The Andromeda Galaxy is visible to the naked eye and is around 2.2 million light years away. This means that the light from it that we are seeing took 2.2 million years to get here.

    If the heavens and earth were really created at around the same time as the KJB says, and this occurred around 6,000 years ago then the light from the Andromeda Galaxy would not have reached us yet and it would not yet be visible to the naked eye.

    So when did God create the Andromeda Galaxy? Was it long before the earth? If so then why isn’t it mentioned in the Bible? Certainly it would be. You’d think that things like other stars and galaxies are part of the grand scheme as they exert forces on one another, and are even used on earth for things like navigation (or were before alternative technologies/methods existed).

    Or are stars and galaxies not part of the heavens, or simply irrelevant to the universe. If stars are irrelevent then that would make the Sun itself irrelevent…

    Yabosi

  • http://www.robot-of-the-week.com Christopher Rose

    RayJ, the comments space is for people to express their thoughts and opinions, not mindlessly paste stuff from other sources. Please don’t keep pasting the same stuff repeatedly.

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    Truth hurts I know

    As to light travel

    all the answers are at

    answersingenesis.org

    seek and you shall find

    No more pastes….from now own I will type my thoughts and opinions that are really not mine but knowledge and wisdom only from prayer and the word of God….okay?

  • http://www.robot-of-the-week.com Christopher Rose

    Ray, do you ever find yourself conflicted between being a real estate agent and a faithist?

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    NO my only business comes from referral from church.
    The buyers always get a bible for housewarming gift
    God has blessed me with the success so that I never have to compromise my ethics in real estate

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    by the way 80% of my income is referred out to another agent…..I rarely work with people that come from my web site….usually only those I know personally

  • Guest

    Some Muslim, Buddhist or athiest in your town ought to go to you for business so when they get turned down they can sue you for discriminating based on religion.

    my only business comes from referral from church…..80% of my income is referred out to another agent…..I rarely work with people that come from my web site.

    So the website claim of “Monthly sales leader for 5 years in a row with 10th largest brokerage firm in America.” is a sham or the people in your church never really move into a home and just buy and sell them.

  • God

    The 9th commandment:

    Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness (Lie).

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    YABOSI,YYYYYAAAAABBBBBOOOOOSSSSSIIIII

    You have a point that is used by many in astronomy.

    But could light travel be addressed in the bible?If you will use the bible to justify your point…I will not to justify but because it is in the bible and the bible is the word of God

    psalms Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

    Isaiah 42:5
    5Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

    JOB 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

    THESE GUYS WROTE THESE WORD LONG AGO BEFORE ONE COULD EVEN BEGIN TO INTERPRET THEIR MEANING.

    The issue of whether or not the universe rapidly expanded during the Creation Week is not crucial, however it seems the scriptures demand it. Verses like Job 9:8, 37:18; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 40:22, 42:5, 44:24, etc., may have their fulfilment in an expansion scenario.God could have stretched the heavens out to the billion light-years scales in this period of time, while forming the stars and galaxies on Day 4. And light travelling at constant still would have gotten to Earth in little time as measured by Earth clocks. A mature creation that is seen as an expanding universe may also be part of the description.

    The light created on Day one was not that neccessarily of any star. Light is a form of energy. Darkness is not. I think the early writters of the Bible did a pretty good job for their day.

    It was not written and re-written to defend itself. What do you say Yabosi?

  • http://www.yabosi.com Yabosi

    So Ray, rather than refer people to your (or your friend’s) website for Adsense traffic, how about responding to the question of the Andromeda Galaxy’s visibility in your own words, using your own thoughts?

    I’ll put a couple of small constraints on your response…

    First, you can’t say that it was God’s decision to make the Galaxy (and other celestial objects) visible for the benefit of humans, so He temporarily tweaked the speed of light to make it happen. That’s too pat and easy.

    Second, don’t try to convince us that the Galaxy was originally 6,000 light years away and the distance between it and earth grew by a factor of over 300 in the last 6,000 years.

    You’re welcome to pray beforehand and use what you learn during prayer in your response, but it’s gotta come from either you, or God via you.

    Yabosi

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    Dont get angry dude.The post section just ask for website and I happen to have one. You can go to that site and click the automatic e-mail and e-mail me personally….that is indeed me.

    I cannot explain what God has done as to the supernatural. Scientist are only discovering what God did. They are in awe everyday they discover something new.

    I am a believer…not an astronomer. I can only say this. You do not believe as I do.

    All plate tectonics studies show that africa/south america are moving cm’s a year further away

    the moon is moving further away

    The bible confirms it with its word before science was even close to explaining it.

    Flood catestrophic..yes
    Creation catestrophic…possibly

    as I quoted 2 peter 3
    Some will be willingly ignorant

    I’m sorry but the Bible provides satifactory answers enough for me.

    As for the Galaxy spoken of…I’m not expert in that area to explain it anymore than I have.

    However the Bible is clear on the issues of faith and there are many quotes to explain how knowledge is not the same as wisdom.

    I have answered you the only way I can.

    Don’t run from the truth yobosi, go to:
    answersingenesis.org and pose the question to them….they have many astrophysisist(spell?) that will be glad to address you like you wish to be answered.

    I give creation credit to God.
    Not sure about you.
    But I wish you well my friend.

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    Someone simply does not understand how business referrals work. I can refer anyone to another agent that may be better suited for that customer. Those I know and fellowship with can and usually do work with me directly.

    It’s nice to get 30% of another agents commission for not doing anything other than giving them some business

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    Once again everyone who disagrees want to throw arrows at me.
    I don’t do that…I simply reply with a message that is not to provoke anyone.
    I simply call em like I see them.
    Love peace…I’m out in a few minutes

  • Guest

    What does the Bible say about laziness and profiting off another man’s work?

    I’m quite sure there’s something in there on that…..

  • http://www.yabosi.com Yabosi

    Ray,

    Not angry at all, just entertained.

    If we accept your argument that God stretched the heavens at some point then the Andromeda Galaxy would have disappeared from view once the initial light reached the earth. It would not reappear until many years later, until light from 2.2 billion light years away reached it.

    Given a timeframe of 6,000 years, the Andromeda Galaxy would have disappeared by now, not to reappear until many years from now. This has not happened.

    This is an example of how fundamentalist interpretations of the Bible break down and why there are so many interpretations of what it says. It’s also a reason that it is a challenge for so many people to read and consider the Holy Scripture without the help of a charismatic multimillionaire in an Armani suit blabbing on the TV screen.

    Yabosi

  • Guest

    It isn’t so much about throwing arrows as exposing hypocrisy.

    Should one want us to accept his belief as science or as a replacement for science, it should be held to scrutiny.

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    to previous poster.
    Science should not be threatened.
    I don’t know why they are so concerned.
    No one is going to be more stupic cause of this
    There are over 500 on a list is AIG that are doctors and scientists.

    Its okay guys….Do your thing
    Let them do their thing

    I realize many christians can only blame themselves. They should take a closer inventory of themselves. As should we all on a regular basis.

    Yabosi, I’m sorry you have to write here and defend your articles and views. You would have to AND ALL OF YOU go to
    ANSWERSINGENESIS.ORG
    post your comments on feedback section
    a do it there

    As for this site
    Few are viewing this

    NEWSWEEKS latest article says it all
    70% believe
    The other 30% are unsure but most of them a sure about their interpretation of the truth.

    There can only be one truth however, cause there would be no truth is there were more than one.

    What is the truth is not what I or you decide it to be.

    The truth is in the word of God

    Good day Gentlemen

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    My hard work has been blessed so I can afford to give another agent 70% earnings……not lazy..just smart

    Story of talents

    The one that burried his was looked down upon compared to the one who gre his talents

    By the way a talent is an amount of money.

  • absolute

    Once a professer said
    “THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES”
    I said, “are you absolutely sure?”

  • sr

    RayJ as more common sense then all the commenters combined on this thread including me. Most of you are at a level of asking that age old question. Can God make a rock so big he couldn’t pick it up. Wish I had RayJ’s honesty, integrity, faith and intelligence. No chance. I want to be my stupid self just like the rest of you. I found it interesting that the Creation Museum was protested. Why? What are they afraid of. We all damn well know they werent conseratives. RayJ please take no offence but for most of you, A BIG FUCK OFF DUMBFUCKS. Not being a Christian I can say that. So comment away because should I comment back it will only be FUCK OFF.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    sr, are you are Creationist?

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    um, rephrased: are you a Creationist?

  • sr

    Sir I just commented on the other tread about creation. Am I a Creationist you ask. Well I was a village idiot at one time until my friend Ruvy set me on the straight and narrow. You did not answer my question sir so I shall not answer yours. Goodnight.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    You did. I was trying to comment and run a household at the same time.

    You stick up for a Creationist and call him an intellectual while at the same time call the Bible a fantasy. So no, you are not a Creationist.

    I do not comprehend why you would think someone, who believes literally in what YOU perceive to be a fantasy, is an intellectual but clearly you do not wish to elaborate. You wish to give Creationists support while at the same time dismiss the Bible and you don’t wish to elaborate on it. That is your right.

    Good night to you too, and I did answer your questions to the best of my ability, whatever I missed wasn’t phrased clearly.

  • absolute

    Can’t we all just get along???!!!

  • http://www.robot-of-the-week.com Christopher Rose

    Guest: I’ve no idea as to what the bible says about anything, but I’m very clear that the Blogcritics Bible says about using more than one identity when commenting…

  • http://www.robot-of-the-week.com Christopher Rose

    RayJ/absolute: that goes for you too. If I see you using more than one identity again, I’ll have to have a serious think about using the delete key on you permanently. For I am the comments god and you will follow the code of Christopher or surely perish!

  • absolute

    I’ve been absolute on about 12 or 13 sites concerning this subject…if you look around you’ll find me always absolute. I’m not sure why ray j was on there before. I am Ray J(real name) but absolute has always been my code name.

  • absolute

    Some folks get so angry. I’m sorry but science and the bible are not in contradiction. I’m not against science…I love science…I just don’t like tax dollars going to lies in the text books.
    When micro evolution moves to macro evolution faith is required. Science is left behind. One then moves to faith that it must have happen. Can’t anyone get that?

  • RayJ

    luv

  • RayJ

    I’ve used absolute on over 10 blog sites concerning this issue…Sorry just habit to use that username. Find me in mich. kent. oped news, courier-journel and many others.

    My message in a nutshell is this.
    When the geologic column is used as fact in text books with our tax dollars…it is wrong
    henckels drawings…it is wrong
    moths on trees it is wrong

    when micro is used in a package deal along with macro,chemical,cosmic,and organic evolution all which have no more demonstable/observable proof than the bible it is wrong

    it can not be that one is religion and one is not
    they are both religions

    why one is supported with tax dollars and the other is not is beyond me.

    To be fair and balanced on the matter is a good thing

  • http://www.robot-of-the-week.com Christopher Rose

    Ray, I’m not concerned about what you do on other sites, here you’ll use one ID or be banned. End of story.

  • RayJ

    I’ll comply cause I’m honest and you can believe or not my reasons as stated. I simply told you I made the mistake and why. Im sorry if you don’t believe me. Why don’t you delete me anyway if you have the power….it surely won’t hurt my feelings…go ahead…delete me.AS ABOVE…PERSONAL ATTACKS NOT ALLOWED(READ POLICY)

  • RayJ

    ROSE,

    look at very 1st post….see absolute in there …that is me i tell ya

  • MCH

    Yeah, RayJ … just ask Dave Nalle/Vox Populi!

  • Elroy Balgaard

    #131 The Andromeda Galaxy is visible to the naked eye and is around 2.2 million light years away. This means that the light from it that we are seeing took 2.2 million years to get here.

    That is a very good question, and is a good argument for an old universe. I struggled with that for a long time. I came up with a possible theory that could solve that question. I’m not sure if its the same one AnswersinGenesis gives.

    I go back to my computer analogy. If you stumbled upon a computer out in the middle of the woods you wouldn’t assume it came into being by a set of random occurrences, but rather a designer of some intelligence created it.

    That computer runs on a set of instructions from its “creator” which comes in the form of a Binary code, which is simply 1s ons 0s or “on” and “off”. When we look into the cell of every living thing it too has a set of instructions or code which is called DNA. If you Wikipedia “DNA” you will find the DNA is far more complex than simple binary code and we are just now starting to understand it, yet it is found in every cell in our body, which is incredibly smaller than any hard drive.

    Darwin himself said that if it turned out that cells which he thought were “simple” turned out to be complex, his theory would be moot. Well we have certainly have discovered that to be true.

    So what does this have to do with 2.2 million light years?

    I am website designer, and before I launch a website I put a lot of time and energy to get it just right. Then when it is all ready I have a “Let There Be Light” kind of moment where with a push of the button the finished website is, at the speed of light, now online.

    I think God, whose technology is light years beyond ours, created the universe in a similar way. God is outside of His Creation, He is outside the Laws of Physics, because he invented them, The time space continuum was his idea. So when He spoke the whole completed universe went on line.

    The speed of light is slowing down, and if you extrapolate the graph backwards we could just be coming out of a reverse “J” curve. In the instance where God spoke “Let There Be Light” the speed of light could have been infinitely fast.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Guest: I’ve no idea as to what the bible says about anything, but I’m very clear that the Blogcritics Bible says about using more than one identity when commenting…

    I am SteveS. My partner is Guest. We used the same computer. I have commented as anonymous when I was too hurried to fill out the name/url. I won’t do that again.

    There was no ill intent there, just multiple people from the same house.

  • bliffle

    When children growup they stop believing in Santa Claus: it was just a manipulative adult lie.

    When children growup they stop believing in The Easter Bunny: it was just a manipulative adult lie.

    When children growup they stop believing in the Tooth Fairy: it was just a manipulative adult lie.

    When children growup they stop believing in God: it was just a manipulative adult lie.

    Well, some do, anyway.

  • http://www.yabosi.com Yabosi

    Elroy,

    If the speed of light was infinitely fast at one time then the red shifts that we see from celestial bodies would be far more pronounced than currently observed.

    The red shifts are just an aspect of the Dopper Effect, which is not a theory or guess by an observed phenomenon. Most of us have experienced or observed the Doppler Effect ourselves…it is heard when a car playing loud music approaches and passes. It is the slight change in frequency created as a wave source approaches and leaves.

    If you do the math, a 6 x 24 hour day creation process that occurred 6,000 years ago doesn’t hold up. This isn’t complex differentials, just basic math. There are many observed phenomena that dispel the notion of a 6,000 year old earth, and many examples of where creation taken literally doesn’t hold up to the rigors of simple math.

    If we take a more expansive view of what the Bible says then parts of the Scripture can actually hold up to simple mathematical modeling.

    Now, I’ll get back on my soapbox. As I’ve said before, fundamentalism is the lowest common denominator for all religions, since it is so easy for people to deal with…just take the word of the charismatic preacher, imam, rabbi, or whoever else may spoon-feed you a simple, literal interpretation of the Scriptures and you can get through anything that life throws at you, or any mistakes or sins that you may commit.

    Fundamentalism is dangerous to society because it removes the thought process from much of life and casts things in simple black and white. We’ve seen throughout history, most recently in Iran, what happens when fundamentalists get mixed up in politics. People don’t seem to believe it, but the same thing could happen in America if we’re not careful.

    Yabosi

  • http://rayj.yourkwagent.com RayJ

    ANOTHER OF MY STORED MID-WEEK E-MAILS TO MY STUDENTS.

    The cray computer(NASA’s computer) is one of the most complex computers on earth.
    The honey bee is also complex.

    The honey bees’ brain weighs .0136 milligrams
    The cray weighs over 2300 lbs.

    The cray computes 6 Billion calculations a second
    Scientists estimate the HB has 10 billion calculations/sec.

    The cray runs on many megawatts
    the HB runs on 10 microwatts

    If the cray has a malfunction…there is a potential disaster.
    If the HB is injured…it often can heal itself

    SO WHY DO ALL EVOLUTIONISTS AGREE THAT THE CRAY HAD A DESIGNER
    AND THEY SAY THE HONEY BEE HAPPENED BY CHANCE??????
    The HB is much more complex than the computer!

    Evolutionist say we came from non-living material billions of years ago but they have no proof, and never will.They have tried in the laboratory, but failed over and over.They made a few amino acids in a 90+% toxic environment. They allowed no oxygen. Oxygen is in all layers of sediment. Proven wrong long ago.

    I WOULD GIVE THEM A FIGHTING CHANCE AND GIVE THEM ALL THE MATERIAL NEEDED TO CREATE LIFE. I WOULD SUGGEST TO THEM TO PUT A FROG IN A BLENDER; THEY THEN WOULD HAVE FROG NOG!
    HERE THEY WOULD HAVE ALL THE MATERIAL NECESSARY TO CREATE LIFE
    THEN I WOULD ASK THEM, HOW MANY YEARS WOULD IT TAKE FOR THE FROG TO REASSEMBLE??

    JUST MY WAY OF REMINDING YOU ALL, THAT WE DID NOT HAPPEN BY CHANCE!
    WE HAD A CREATOR….WHATEVER THE WORLD OR YOUR TEXT BOOKS MAY SAY IN THEM, OR THE DISCOVERY CHANNELS OR WHAT SCIENCE MY SAY…THEY HAVE NO PROOF OF THEIR THEORIES. NOW THERE IS LOTS OF GOOD SCIENCE TOO. I CAN TALK ABOUT THE GOOD SCIENCE TO YOU ALL DAY. YOU MAY BE INTERESTED ONE DAY IN SCIENCE AND YOU WILL DO WELL I’M SURE. NEVER CHALLANGE YOUR TEACHER…JUST ANSWER LIKE THEY WANT YOU TO AND KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. IF THEY PUSH TOO HARD…LET EVERYONE KNOW ABOUT IT. YOU SHOULD GET RESPECT IF YOU BEHAVE RESPECTFULLY.
    THEY MAY TRY TO PUSH YOU THOUGH AND WHATS WORSE THEY TRY TO MAKE IT ALL SEEM AS IF IT IS FACT.THE ONLY FACT IS THEY NEED MILLIONS/BILLIONS OF YEARS TO SAY IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED.

    As for the galaxy….There is I admit an area of difficulty for the young creationist. I’ve learned in mathematics however to prove something right you must try to prove it is wrong. NO ONE CAN PROVE GOD DID IT OR NOT……therefore it must be by faith. The fact that a God who created can defy laws is more likely than not.Who is the law giver anyway? Who bought the gas to run this machine? I think 2 planets spin backward just to make the big bang theory look stupid. And why are planets still cooling off?
    The light years theory is powerful but I will follow up on this….I PROMISE….in the coming days.Till then…Peace out.!.!

    Yabosi….Do you believe in God…that there was a creator to this universe? If so tell me about it. Who is your God?

  • http://www.robot-of-the-week.com Christopher Rose

    SteveS, thanks for the clarification, much appreciated.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    SO WHY DO ALL EVOLUTIONISTS AGREE THAT THE CRAY HAD A DESIGNER
    AND THEY SAY THE HONEY BEE HAPPENED BY CHANCE??????

    JUST MY WAY OF REMINDING YOU ALL, THAT WE DID NOT HAPPEN BY CHANCE!

    Again, evolutionists don’t teach that we are here by chance. They teach that we are here by trial and error, natural selection and survival of the fittest. An organisms ability to adapt. Not chance.

  • http://www.yabosi.com Yabosi

    Ray,

    Looks like the panties are a bit ruffled, buddy.

    In fact I do believe in God and that He gave us a powerful brain so that we can think for ourselves, and expansively as to how Creation may have been implemented.

    I don’t believe that He wants us to blindly follow the Falwells of the world but to discover and know Him in our own way on an individual basis.

    Fundamentalism removes the thought from religion (all religions whether Christianity, Islam,…) and paints a complex world as black and white so that it’s easy for people who lack intelligence or education, or simply don’t have the time or don’t want to bother to spend the time to develop their own understanding of God and the Scripture.

    Frankly, Fundamentalists are an embarrassment to all people of faith regardless of denomination. That’s my unapologetic take.

    I need to work on my next article (my last one on Mitt “Flipper” Romney was a bit weak by my own standards), so I doubt I’ll spend much more time on this thread. It’s been fun, however…there’s been some pretty lively debate and interesting viewpoints on both sides.

    I’d like to thank to everyone who’s participated and I hope that you continue the discussion.

    Stay tuned for my next article on our lovely healthcare system.

    Yabosi

  • Elroy Balgaard

    Evolutionist have to believe the following:

    Primordial soup grew fins and turned into fish, it got tired of living in the ocian so it grew legs and went on the land. Then it tuned into a reptile, then a mammal and it got really big. It got tired of living on the land so it grew fins again, went back into the ocean and became a Blue Whale.

  • sr

    Christopher the only reason you would ban RayJ is because he is a Christian. Now Christopher if you dropped the opher from your first name and changed your last name to Jesus and reversed it then we have Jesus Christ deletes RayJ’s comments. Now thats some real deep thinking on my part. Du. As El Guapo said in the three amigos, you and Doc are funney guys. Well nice chatting with you. Poncho is calling me and Poncho say Cisco lets went. By amigo’s, see you soon at the singing bush.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Evolutionist have to believe the following:

    Actually, only Creationists HAVE to believe something. Evolutionists can change what they believe when God reveals more to us through science. It is Creationists who have to believe one unchanging thing.

    And evolution doesn’t teach that anything ‘gets tired’, but most like adapts to new environments and explores for new food/resources.

    Creationists can teach what Creationists believe, but this thread alone is ample evidence that Creationists cannot speak on behalf of science/knowledge or Evolution.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Christopher the only reason you would ban RayJ is because he is a Christian

    Was it God who gave you the ability to read another man’s mind/motive?

  • bliffle

    Every civilization records floods. Because so many have occured. Even with people to record them we can find (by scientific method) floods NOT mentioned in bibles. For example, the megaflood that swept across Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, etc., when the ice dam retaining Lake Wyoming burst 10,000 years ago. Oh , wait a minute, that was before your 6000 year limit! And that lake was left over from the Ice Age that occured 18,000 years ago.

    Chinese teachers use all kinds of mnemonic devices to remember characters. I stil remember, from 50 years ago when I studied Chinese, that the characer for WAR is 2 women under a roof, etc.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    I believe that it was “The Flood” that created the badlands and canyons out west, have you ever seen the Grand Canyon that must have been some flood. Scientist are now beginning to think that it was a flood that drained quickly that created these formations and not a river flowing over millions of years. And that this happened within the last 10,000 years. Close enough for me.

    As far as the ice age, a Creationist theory is that what caused the flood in the first place was a meteor that hit our planet 4,400 years ago. This meteor like a lot of meteors was in the form of ice.

    When it struck it did a lot of things, released the ground water, brought down the protective ice shield in the outer atmosphere, tilted us on our axis and created the poles. This explains how Woolly Mammoths were frozen instantly in there tracks with tropical vegetation still in their mouths. They’ve been found in Antarctica as well.

    And we have been thawing out ever since. That is why glaciers are now disappearing. Most glaciers have been shrinking ever since we’ve been studying them. The ancient polar ice that is breaking up is a blue color, this is most likely from the Meteor or outer ice layer.

    There was a calendar found at Lake Titikaka which has 290 days in a year. Either they were very poor with math or the earth sped up in its roation or moved out further in its orbit as aresult of the meteor strike. Plus, Lake Titikaka is an ancient city that is at 13,000 feet, it was probably at sea level before the flood and was pushed up when the Andes were formed after the flood. And as Lake the lake continues to drain more and more buildings are being revealed.

    The theory continues that after the flood the earth was covered in water, then there was a violent shifting of tectonic plates which instantly caused deep canyons in the oceans and created large mountain ranges above the water, this caused a violent runoff of water, hence the Grand Canyon.

    A mile high mountain range instantly appeared at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean in 2004 which caused the Tsunami. A submarine ran into it because it was not charted.

    So more and more we are seeing that geological characteristics are more a result of cataclysmic events in a short amount of time rather than say a trickle of water over billions of years.

  • sr

    Elroy. I have been to the grand canyon several times. When we were told the Colorado River carved the canyon and Im looking out over this vastness I thought to myself this is not logical. I was 10 yrs old at the time. I told my father it looked like a flood went through it. For the first time I think your on to something. Never been to Lake Titikaka however Ive seen my share of tit’s. I dont worry about a meteor strike’s. Will leave that up to the scare tactics of the media. The rest of your comment has got my attention and worth looking into. Very interesting sir.

  • sr

    Elroy. Do you believe in creation or evolution?

  • Elroy Balgaard

    I believe in Creation. I used to be way into Evolution, but than I started doing my own research and foudn a lot of holes.

  • sr

    Thanks Elroy. Would like to hear more. Im always searching for answers on each side of the pancake. One thing I do know is Im a conservative and detest liberals. Just like Michael Savage says, liberalism is a mental disorder.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    For instance the top of the Grand canyon is 1,000 feet higher elevation then the Colorado River. The river would have had to flow uphill to start carving it out.

    When Mount St. Helens blew it created a huge temporary lake that was dammed with dead trees, When the dam gave way a very large canyon was carved out in a matter of minutes, complete with strata.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    You should checkout my website.

    Minnesotans For Global Warming

  • sr

    No wonder Ruvy stays out of this. For most of you all I can come up with is Holy Fuck Batman. I do not exempt myself. At least we have a lot of interest with this Blog. Will minds change. No chance but it’s fun to comment.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    I agree this probably won’t change anybody’s belief system, but at least its a place for an actual debate. And I bet some people have heard things they’ve never heard before.

  • sr

    Elroy. Your correct however people only hear what they want to hear including me. It’s late and I need my beauty rest. Take care. Later.

  • SonnyD

    Elroy: Re #179 Is this some wild daydream of yours or are you smoking some really good stuff? I wish someone with a background in Geology would answer you with some references that would clear up all the nonsense you wrote.

    I’ve only had one college level Geology class and I can see dozens of things that would be impossible in what you say. Start with the Grand Canyon. First the Colorado River is not a trickle of water. Before it was tamed by the dams that are now controlling it, it was an extremely violent river, especially when it was at flood stage in the spring. It did not need to flow uphill to erode the land. It was flowing across the land before the land went through a stage of uplifting. As the land gradually lifted, the river ate through it. Much of the vertical erosion that you see is caused by windblown sand and also by freezing and thawing each year that causes rock to crumble away.

    Now, look at the walls of the canyon. Many, many layers of various types of rock that were laid down over millions of years are exposed.

    The sudden ice age that you dreamed up would not, in any way, resemble glacier ice. Glaciers result from many years of snow that does not melt year round. The weight of many years snowfall compresses the lower levels into solid ice. Each year’s accumulation contains various elements according to what was in the air at the time it was deposited. e.g. dust, volcanic ash, pollution from DDT, etc.

    In addition, glaciers move. Their weight causes them to creep downhill and in the process they grind away soil and rock that becomes embedded in the ice and is carried away. When glaciers start to retreat, they melt away at the forward edge leaving behind a deposit of the stuff they have been carrying. Ridges of this debris are called eskers. There are other names for other types of junk left behind by glaciers that I can’t seem to pull out of the old memory vault at the moment.

  • SonnyD

    Elroy: As for the rest of the stuff you came up with, it wouldn’t even be acceptable in a poorly written sci-fi or fantasy novel. It sounds like you have put together snippets of things you have heard and not remembered accurately. First, the earth has always had poles. They were not caused by a meteor. The poles have always moved around some and that has been recorded in historic times. At some time in the far distant past – more than a few thousand years – the poles must have been located quite differently.

    As I read recently, oil deposits are formed by centuries of tropical growth and shallow water marine life. It takes a very long time for enough growth and decay to take place to form pockets of oil large enough to be worth drilling. Then thousands or millions of years of the deposits being buried under layers of earth and rock so that the pressure and heat from being buried creates oil. Now, we drill for oil in the Arctic, so at some time that part of the earth must have been in the tropics. There is your connection between tropical growth and the Arctic. Whether the shift in the poles was gradual or sudden is still not known; but it was much longer ago than you are talking about.

    Now, about the woolly mammoths. Think about it. Woolly mammoths were woolly because they lived in very cold climates. One was never found with tropical growth in its mouth. I think I’ve read that one was found with plant material in its digestive tract. Someone may have written that a frozen mammoth was found with plant material in its mouth, it makes a better story that way, I suppose. But the thing is, it didn’t have to be flash frozen at that instant in order to be preserved.

    Mt. St Helen’s is a good example. When it blew, it took out one side near the top and a wall of gasses, ash, rocks and anything that was in its path blasted down the mountain side at extremely high speed. The gas would force the air out of its path and kill any animal instantly from lack of oxygen. The animal would be buried in ash that would tend to preserve it as winter came on and it would be frozen solid. If it were in a valley between two ridges, it would be under many feet of ash and could remain frozen even if the surface thawed in the summer. Now, if an ice age were coming on and temperatures stayed below freezing year round and a glacier started working its way down that valley it could scrape away most of the ash in its path and form itself over the animal and even carry it right on down the hillside with it.

    Okay, that’s about enough from the master of the run-on sentence, eh?

  • Elroy Balgaard

    This is way too complex of an issue that I can explain on this blog.
    For more info here is a good article on the subject.
    Young-Earth Creationism and the Geology of the Grand Canyon

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Elroy, do you even read what you link to? It’s interesting to note that Evolutionists on this thread use their own words, but you repeatedly resort to just linking to someone else’s words.

    At the link you provide, in comment 191, it offers two explainations for the Grand Canyon. Evolution and Creationism. At the bottom of the page, there is a link that says “What can we conclude from all this?”

    If you click on that link, you will see that it concludes that Creationism is false. You didn’t finish reading it, apparently.

  • bliffle

    Creationism is a deadend: it goes nowhere. Creationism is totally consumed in justifying it’s own preconceived notions. You will never find a cure for cancer by studying creationism and/or the bible. You will never invent the automobile by studying creationism.

    It is science that has made our lives longer, easier and more rewarding, not bible study.

    Science triumphs because it can do one thing that creationism cannot do: discard old faulty theories when they are proven wrong. Creationism cannot do that: it is devoted to defending old faulty theories.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    At the link provided in 191, it gives the young Earth theory, and then concludes on the following page with this:

    I don’t think there can be any doubt that the young-Earth, catastrophic model for the formation of the Colorado Plateau and the Grand Canyon fails in a great many ways. It does not explain the known facts, despite calling on a number of unjustifiable ad hoc hypotheses. It is internally contradictory, as well as inconsistent with the known evidence. Quite simply, it doesn’t work, and there doesn’t appear to be any way to salvage it so that it does work. Rationally, the only conclusion is that the young Earth model fails, and it must be discarded.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    #192 Yes, but at least I think it does a pretty good job laying out the arguments. I of course come to a different conclusion.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Clearly you do, Elroy, clearly you do. One that fits in with your agenda.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    One that fits in with your agenda.

    Yes, but don’t we all do that?

    The Grand Canyon doesn’t come with an owner’s manual. All we can do is study it and come up with “theories”. The theory we come up with depends a lot on how we view the world or our “worldview”.

    All I’m saying is that there is actual scientific data behind our theories.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    Just because you don’t believe in something doesn’t mean its not true.

  • SteveS

    Yes, but don’t we all do that?

    No, we don’t all disregard facts just so we can cling to a disproven theory.

    All I’m saying is that there is actual scientific data behind our theories.

    And the article you linked to, dispels that scientific data as flawed.

    Just because you believe in somethig doesn’t make it true.

    Words to live by, Elroy.

    When this site gets up to a certain number of comments, the page no longer loads for me, in Firefox or IE. I had to load an old operating system and go all the way back to netscape navigator to load this page. I’m done here.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    Boy, people are so touchy on this subject.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Elroy,

    You’re wasting your brain-cells on this young earth garbage. Invest some money and some time and buy the works of Dr. Gerald Schroeder, and see how a physicist makes Genesis and quantum physics mesh nicely. You won’t find Jesus lurking around in his books, Schroeder is Jewish, like me, but you will see what a man who believes in G-d, and who is a scientist does to derive understanding…

    Genesis and the Big Bang
    The Science of G-d
    and other works at Dr.Schroeder’s website.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    Who’s G-d?

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “Who’s G-d?”

    The Divine Entity Whose Holy Name I do not write in it’s entirety – the Creator of the universe.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Elroy, as you probably know full well, Ruvy is merely following the Jewish practice of not writing the full name of God.

    Or are you really that dense?

  • sr

    Im out of here. This reminds of the movie with Lee Marvin, Ship of Fools.

  • STM

    I suppose if you lived in Minnesota, you’d be praying for global warming.

  • Mark

    “With these constraints removed, reconciliation of science and the Bible is possible if one considers that evolution is an ongoing process used to implement Creation.”

    Actually, this is not true at all. If you had actually visited the museum or the answersingenesis website, you would know that the Bible holds there was no death before sin. How can there be 100 million year old fossils of dinosaurs if humans weren’t around until 60 million years later? The Flood provides the solution to fossils.
    Carbon dating has proved inaccurate.

    It’s so easy for you to name-call when your own beliefs in atheism and evolution are challenged. Perhaps you should interview one of the “backwoods” PHD’s from the Creation Museum instead.

  • Mark

    “If someone like Jerry Falwell tells you that based on his interpretation of the Holy Scripture that he quotes and interprets for you, and his conversations with God via prayer, the sun does revolve around the earth, and that all opposing scientific and visual evidence is just an illusion created by Satan in order to tempt us away from seeing the truth, would you believe him?”

    Interestingly enough, evolution doesn’t have the science or observations to provide any real support. Darwin came up with a solution to the problem “how do we account for our existence without involving religion” first, and his followers have been unsuccessfully trying to prove him right ever since. His theory didn’t come up with all the facts and then discover what happened. Evolutionists and atheists have already decided on the conclusion, but ignore any science that doesn’t match that conclusion. Creationists have a different conclusion given to them from the most reliable source there is, and guess what! All the science supports it!

  • Dr Dreadful

    Mark’s First Law:

    If the vast preponderance of scientific evidence does not support your beliefs, ignore it.

    Mark’s Second Law:

    If ignoring it doesn’t work, deny that it is science.

    Mark’s Third Law:

    Maintain peace of mind by being completely oblivious to how foolish you look.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    Darwin was just floating a theory, and it came with 2 conditions. That there would be a huge amount of transitional fossils and that cells, which science was just discovering were simple. He said if these things proved otherwise he theory would be bogis.

    Well I hate to tell you, both of those ships have sailed.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    I know you guys hate it when I link to things because that’s cheating. Well I’m no PHD, but I have couple in my barn (post hole diggers that is) but here is a really good movie complete with PHD’s.

    Actually, it won’t let me link to it cause it’s banned.

    Sot Google Video “Unlocking The Mysteries Of Life”

  • sr

    My friend Doc the funney guy says please dont confuse me with facts. I have a life to live and I will live it my way. Doc old man please sing that great song by Frank Sinatra, I Did It My Way. louder, I cant hear you. In the morning, in the eveing ain’t we got fun. Doc lets drink some rum and have some fun. Do da do da all day long.

  • sr

    Hey Doc, heard you singing. Your no Lady of Song nor will you ever have the class she does fool.

  • Dr Dreadful

    sr, I resent that. I’ll have you know that, just like dear old Jerry Falwell, I possess a PhD in Music from the Online University of That Rest Stop On I-80 Somewhere In Rural Nevada. I paid $80 for it and it was money well spent, I can tell you.

    Now where’s that rum, matey? Arrrrr!!!

  • MadSat

    Well, if the creationists didn’t constantly show they do not read or understand ANYTHING about evolution, then I might respect their views.

    Example : Evolution of new species has been observed and reported numerous times, Faroe Island mouse for an animal example, the doubling of the genes in goat weed for another. The new goat weed seems to be pushing out the old species, and is apparently more successful.

    Noah’s ark – OH COME ON! This is a known MONUMNENT built by CRUSADERS! It gets rediscovered about every ten years by the Weekly World News. There are actually at least two of them, and the two I know about have been carbon dated to the crusades and there are even supposed to be records of the construction. I am very very tired of this constant “rediscovery” of an artifact known for many years.

    As for Darwin, in the first place, attacking Darwinian evolutionary theory is attacking something that died long ago, so you are simply proving again that you know nothing about the subject you are attacking. MODERN evolutionary theory is very different from Darwins “slow changes over eons” ideas, attacking Darwin does absolutely nothing but convince anyone with knowledge of the subject that you do not have a clue. Moreover, Darwin was not attempting to remove religion from anything, he was simply trying to explain his observations in the Galapagos Archipelago.

    The originator of evolutionary theory in fact was not Charles Darwin, he simply modernized it and gave it a factual basis. The original evolutionary theory was the co-creator hypothesis, which stated that God created the Earth in an unfinished state, and man must work to perfect this creation in a status of co-creator with God. BTW, that theory was advanced by St Augustine, about 400 AD. So if you want to get back to early Christian thinking, maybe you should consider that you might have to believe in evolution to do it. And Augustine was really just picking up on the general beliefs of his time and codifying them.

  • Elroy Balgaard

    So you believe in creation, its just that man co-created with God?

  • sr

    Asked this question on another thread. Did Adam and Eve if you believe in creation have a belly buttom. Which came first, the spider or the web?

  • Dr Dreadful

    Elroy, you really are hopeless, aren’t you? Enough already with your lame ‘gotcha’ questions that wouldn’t faze a five-year-old.

    MadSat was not expressing any personal beliefs. He was trying* to explain early Christian thinking about origins, and to illustrate how crazily off-beam ideas like yours are in relation to them.

    *Quite lucidly, I thought… but not lucidly enough for some, evidently. As my Dad used to say: in one ear and out the other.

  • Dr Dreadful

    sr asks: Which came first, the spider or the web?

    The spider, of course. The web was invented by Tim Berners-Lee in 1993 or thereabouts. Enjoy it while you can.

  • sr

    Hey Doc, did the first spider have a belly button?

  • Dr Dreadful

    No, it didn’t need one. It lived in Adam’s belly button. It was able to survive there because Adam, being naked, didn’t collect any belly button lint, so never needed to rummage around in there.

    The spider then made the mistake of moving to Cain’s belly button, which was roomier but had one major disadvantage. Cain, you see, did wear lint-producing garments and enjoyed shoving a finger or two in the old navel for a good cleanout. He would roll up any fluff he found there into a ball and flick it across the room at Abel while he wasn’t looking.

    The spider soon got fed up with this and abandoned Cain, hoping to find another navel to live in. Unfortunately for the spider, this was just around the time when “outie” belly buttons became fashionable. Disgruntled and disillusioned, the itsy bitsy spider realized that it had lost its footing on the property ladder and looked around for something else to climb up. And thus was created the first water spout.

  • sr

    Doc#221. You are the best. Im glad I was not drinking Capt Morgan, eating fresh oysters and popcorn reading that comment. My nose would have blown it all over my PC screen. Doc, your a funny man and keep up the good work.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Now that would make a neat creation myth, sr: a universe snorted out of the nose of a drunken superbeing laughing at a joke.

    “in the beginning was the Word; and the word was ‘belly-button’.”

  • Nick O’Connor

    Let me see, there are now some 300 million of you morons in the great US of A, the land of freedom blah blah (unless you are black and don’t want to be towed behind a pick up)or maybe homosexual (but then aren’t all these preacher types constantly being caught trousers down with drugs and perverts?). Anyway, enough bashing easy targets… look, your invisible friend is er, an invisible friend…no heaven, hell, angels, guy with beard on cloud etc… the lizards were actually a little ahead of us which means they probably weren’t invited along to parties in 1580 or whatever… you are a young nation, prone to exageration every now and then and we all know you have lots of military toys with which to keep your young men masterbating over and rag heads the world over dying from – gosh, how brave, purple hearts for everyone. Your preoccupation with god mumbo jumbo aside (mind you I say that a bit to glibbly – you do love this “I was anally probed in area 69″ or something) have to say I have a weakness for your Leatherman (calm down boys….) multi purpose tools – great gear so probably made by a german like your rockets ya? Listen, it’s good to type, wind up some yanks every now and again and

  • Kallie

    Your comment about “blind acceptance” misses an important point. God tells us through the Bible that we are all blind in sin until we are forgiven through Jesus, and are regenerated by the indwelling Holy Spirit that becomes a part of every new Christian.

    The Holy Spirit REMOVES the blinders so that one begins to slowly see and understand what was there all along. He lives in and becomes a part of the new Christian, guiding and teaching him constantly. Hence the beautiful song that goes, “Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me, I once was lost, but now am found, was blind, but now I see.”

    Those of us who became saved as adults remember the BEFORE and the AFTER, and let me be the first to tell you, nothing comes close to describing it. It is to be preferred above all things.

    It is like a drink for the thirsty, like a bungee jump for the adventurous, like an encyclopedia of antiquities for the scolar and like a marriage of true love between soul mates for everyone.

    Without the Lord within, we are like a kite without the wind. But God’s enemy Satan sees that empty kite, and he blows a hot and dirty dust storm into it. Hence the angry words that spew out from the unbeliever when he talks about Christians and God.

    God bless you and help you to find him.

    The enemy hates Christians because he hates our master. Since the master is within us, the enemy looks at us and sees the God he hates.

    Anyone who does not have the inner protection of the Holy Spirit is subject to constant hate speech from the devil. When you hear it 24 hours a day you start to believe it. You become convinced that Christians can be described by every negative adjective that comes to mind.

  • http://www.RoseDigitalMarketing.com Christopher Rose

    What a load of hysterical superstitious nonsense the preceding comment is. Must be the devil blowing a “hot and dirty dust storm” into me…

  • Dan

    There’s something creepy about the passion Christian haters expend to denounce their… enemy? They never seem to take a pass, or just walk by. It’s like they validate Christian belief by doing exactly what Christians believe people who are influenced by Satan would do.

    I don’t understand the compulsion.

  • zingzing

    dan, don’t worry, in the end, we’ll all just rot.