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Mr. President, I Will Tell You What Is Right for America

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I have been a supporter of President Bush since he was nominated by the party over seven years ago. He was certainly a better choice than either of the Democrats running, and I have generally agreed with his policies.

I support the war on terror and the war in Iraq, and I believe that we need to wipe out what people call Islamic extremism but what is really mainstream Islam. I have, however, disagreed with him on several issues, and the most important one is illegal immigration.

The President of the United States does not have a clue when it comes to immigration and securing our borders against an invasion from the south. President Bush, along with several Republicans, has sided with Ted Kennedy in supporting an amnesty bill that will ruin this country. I would have thought that these people in DC would have learned from the last two Kennedy-sponsored amnesty bills that were touted as the end to illegal immigration but ended up giving us more illegals than before. They can deny that it is amnesty and point to sanctions, but those sanctions will soon disappear, and we will be left with millions of freeloaders who suck up resources and bring us down. One only needs to look at what they did to Mexico and what they have done to the towns they have taken over in the US to know that things will get worse, not better.

President Bush is out on the trail trumping up this bill and trying to tell people why they should support it. I believe that President Bush has always wanted a way to grant millions of illegals amnesty and to allow them to live here and sponge off the taxpayers in this country, and now that the Democrats are the majority he has the forum in which to do it. He has been beaten up so badly over the past six years that I believe he is willing to do anything to pass this so that he will have some sort of legacy. Believe me when I tell you that the legacy will be of a failed presidency and the ruination of America if he has his way. The problem with those in DC is that they do not listen to the majority of people in this country who do not support this bill. They just feel that we do not understand. Here is what the President had to say: "Those determined to find fault with this bill will always be able to look at a narrow slice of it and find something they don't like," the president said. "If you want to kill the bill, if you don't want to do what's right for America, you can pick one little aspect out of it.

"You can use it to frighten people," Bush said. "Or you can show leadership and solve this problem once and for all." Breitbart

Mr. President, I have the utmost respect for you and the office you hold, but you are dead wrong on this. What is right for America is to close our borders and not reward those who came here illegally. I don't care how many fines you levy, I don't care what you call it, and I don't care how much so-called bipartisan support you claim to have, this is wrong and it rewards illegal behavior. It also cheapens the efforts and sacrifices of those who did all the right things and came here legally and who we welcome with open arms. It tells the world that America has laws that it does not enforce, and that it is OK to do what you want here and you will be rewarded.

I am willing to bet that any people, citizens or not, who showed up at the White House uninvited and acted like they were entitled to live there would be arrested. They would be perceived as a threat and they would be prosecuted accordingly. Well, Mr. President, America is our White House and people are coming into it all the time and they are uninvited. Instead of doing the same thing to them that you would do to a trespasser at the White House, you are telling them that it is OK and they will be rewarded.

American citizenship is one of the most cherished things a person can achieve. Many of us were blessed by the grace of God to be born in the United States but many people risk their lives and spend their life's savings to come here legally and do things the right way. When the first act a person does in this country is to break the law, that person is not worthy of citizenship.

Mr. President, the majority of Americans who oppose this amnesty know what is right for America and want to do the right thing. That right thing is to toughen our immigration laws so that merely being here illegally is a felony and we want law enforcement to work together to capture and deport or jail (depending on other potential crimes) those who are here illegally. The horror of 9/11 happened in part because law enforcement agencies were not allowed to work together.

The way immigration is set up, sir, law enforcement is not allowed to work together to get illegals out and keep them out. Instead of deporting or locking up illegals, you are locking up border patrol agents who are doing their jobs. To add insult to injury, you are giving the real criminals amnesty. We Americans also know that closing our borders is the right thing to do and that no solution to this problem will ever work until we accomplish this. We also know that Ted Kennedy does not have the best interests of America at heart and he has taken us down this road before, only to put us on a path to slow death by infiltration. Death is what you get when you let Ted Kennedy drive.

Today is Memorial Day, a day when we honor those who gave their lives in defense of this country. Those brave men and women are spinning in their graves at the thought that they gave their lives to defend this nation only to have politicians in DC give it away. They must be heartbroken that this country is being overrun and will be taken over without a shot ever being fired.

If you listen carefully on a quiet night, Mr. President, you can hear the tears of those interred at Arlington National Cemetery. Our war dead weep for this once great nation and the inability of its leaders to protect what they willingly died to preserve. Considering their fate, who can blame them for expecting more from our leaders?

As an American citizen I am entitled to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Consider this petition an exercise of my First Amendment rights. I encourage others to exercise this right as well.

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About Big Dog

  • zingzing

    sigh… i don’t want to get into it. yeah, yeah, i know. why bother, eh? indeed.

  • http://silverstarhawk.livejournal.com Jared Wright

    Big Dog, meet Practicality. You two have some catching up to do.

    So, pray tell, how do you exactly plan to fairly and at least somewhat efficiently locate and deport 12,000,000 illegal immigrants? Without creating economic fallout and using only the limited resources you have? Get back with me on that, and we’ll talk about this heroic stand you’re taking on behalf of our borders.

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    Jared, meet English. Closing the border is the right thing and no other solution will work until we do this. What part of that involves deporting 12 million people? We need to secure the border.

    THEN, as we catch ILLEGALS we deport them or jail them if they have committed another crime (which quite a few do). We change the law so local police can check and detain those who are ILLEGAL and we can deport or jail them.

    You see, they did not all come here in one swift act miraculously appearing. They came here over time and we can get rid of them over time but without a secure border, it is wasted effort.

    I hear people like you tell me all the time that there is an economic impact blah, blah. There are no jobs Americans will not do, they just will not do them for meager wages. Americans will work for appropriate wages. As for the impact, I don’t mind paying a little more for my lettuce.

    The economic burden of these people far outweighs any perceived benefit. They consume more than they produce. You might get cheap oranges but you pay higher health care costs and taxes for schools because they consume these items and do not pay for them.

    Since employers hire ILLEGALS because they save money for the boss, we should mandate a $10,000 fine per ILLEGAL to any employer who hires one. This will stop the practice of hiring ILLEGALS real quick…

  • http://www.robot-of-the-week.com Christopher Rose

    I’m not convinced by the argument that Americans are prepared to work but only at a certain level of pay.

    In a report on the BBC’s website today, their Washington correspondent mentioned in passing

    There is no such thing as 100% security along any of America’s borders.

    The only solution is a political one that accommodates the millions of workers who want to come to the US and without whom Californian grapes would remain unpicked and Iowa hotel beds unmade.

    If in doubt I urge you to see a film called A Day without A Mexican. It imagines California without nannies, gardeners and construction workers. What a different California it is!

    This is the challenge that President George W Bush is trying to live up to and that could well define his legacy, Iraq permitting.

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    Sorry, I don’t believe in absolutes such as the ONLY solution is a political one that accomodates law breakers.

    Why do we have laws? Amnesty encourages more and more people to break the law to come here as seen the lst two times that the government granted amnesty.

    How about we round up all the illegals and send them to Iraq to fight. That is a job that few Americans are willing to do. If they live we can make them a citizen and if they die we will make them one posthumously. If they can not go to Iraq we can put them on chain gangs and make them work off their debt to society for their criminal behavior. Or better yet, let’s make our own criminals work those fields for free to work off what it costs to keep them in jail.

    In reality, they do not want to be citizens so signing the bill will make them legal and that is what they want. They will still take things that they did not pay for and increase costs. Once that bill is signed all the criminals like the gang members of MS13 will be legal.

    I guess you folks feel it is OK to break the law if there is a good reason. How about we release those folks in prison who broke the law, they stole/murdered/fill in the blank to make their lives better…

  • zingzing

    “I guess you folks feel it is OK to break the law if there is a good reason.”

    yep. 100% absolutely true.

    as far as your ideas on sending all the illegal aliens off to iraq or jail go… you know that’s stupid. we don’t have the space, the planes, the desire nor the general stupidity to try it.

    you’re offering no solutions except the ones that punish everyone for the failure of our laws. the law needs fixing. something coherant and possible to accomplish. something that makes citizenship more enticing than entering illegally.

    once all those illegal aliens are documented and made to pay taxes, what will you have left against them? i’m sure you’ll figure something out.

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    Obviously Zing, there is a bit of sarcasm involved. I guess I don’t understand how the only method is to reward people for breaking the law. It cheapens the efforts of those who did it the right way and it makes a sham of our legal system.

    So what if the laws are broken, though I don’t believe they are. We have a method in place in order to get here and it needs to be followed. How tough is that and how is it broken. It is only broken to people who apologize for the illegal behavior.

    What part of ILLEGAL do you have trouble with any way? Besides, many of these folks will pay little if any taxes because they will not make enough. They will surely be on welfare and other social services that we tax paying citizens have to foot the bill for.

    It is a plain and simple issue. They came here ILLEGALLY and need to be dealt with.

    I will grant you that the law is broken in that it is set up so local law enforcement can not check the status of these people. That is a farce and needs to be corrected. I do not believe in appeasing people who broke the law. Nothing will change that hovwever, if you are so keen on it can we let Scooer Libby go? How about all the ENRON execs? They were just trying to make life better for themselves and all these securities laws are messed up anyway.

  • zingzing

    “I guess I don’t understand how the only method is to reward people for breaking the law.”

    well, it’s not the only way. we don’t reward them, we put them through what it takes to become a citizen. we don’t have the resources, the time or the energy to deal with 12-20 million deportation cases. it’s impossible. so get over it.

    “[The law] is only broken to people who apologize for the illegal behavior.”

    nope. it’s broken when at least 12 million people decide it is easier and safer just to forget the law. it’s broken when american businesses decide that saving a few dollars an hour is a reasonable risk. that’s broken. who’s apologizing? “sorry for all the illegals?” don’t be ridiculous.

    “What part of ILLEGAL do you have trouble with any way?”

    none. “enforcement” is where the problems come in.

    “Besides, many of these folks will pay little if any taxes because they will not make enough.”

    well… if they are making reasonable wages, they’ll make more money, pay more taxes… hrm… i’m sure one of the qualifications for citizenship that everyone can agree on is that you hold a job. of course, you can’t do that if there is no guest worker program. but you don’t want that… you just want them out, eh?

    “It is a plain and simple issue. They came here ILLEGALLY and need to be dealt with.”

    deal with it then! deportation is a fool’s answer. it won’t work. this is a real problem, not just some political issue. it needs to be dealt with in reality.

    “can we let Scooer Libby go? How about all the ENRON execs?”

    nope. but if there were 12 million of them all doing the same thing, i’d say we would be totally fucked anyway, so what would be the point of doing anything? of course, that’s not what i’m saying about immigration.

    we need a real solution that at least allows people to earn a decent wage and makes immigrants pay their own way. throwing them out of the country won’t happen. what will work is making citizenship more attractive than illegal immigration. to do that, we have to make it possible.

  • zingzing

    hey, i just wrote a very nice response to big dog and the damn thing’s gone missing. what up?

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    I didn’t do it and wouldn’t if I could

  • zingzing

    shit… the main gist of it was this, then:

    “rewarding” people is not the aim. putting them through what is necessary to become citizens is.

    the law is broken when 12-20 million illegal immigrants and countless american businessmen decide it is worth the risk to break the law to make/pay a few dollars more/hour.

    i don’t have any problem understanding “illegal.” what part of “effective enforcement” troubles you?

    enron execs are a few people who duped lots of people out of a lot of money. we can get them. so we get them. illegal immigration may or may not cost us oodles of cash on a national level. what do we do? we tell them they are here illegally and should pay taxes. doesn’t stop them. obviously, we need to make them follow the law and become citizens and pay taxes, because they aren’t going to stop coming. and yes, they will pay taxes–i’m sure the government will figure that part out. that’s what they do best, yeah?

  • zingzing

    “I didn’t do it and wouldn’t if I could”

    of course not. that never crossed my mind. it’s the anti-spam program or something. whatever.

  • http://blogcritics.org/video Lisa McKay

    Caught in the spam filter; I’ve set it free.

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    Well I have to agree that if the government can find a way to make them pay taxes they will but most will be under the poverty level and pay little if any.

    Look, I am not opposed to legal immigration. I see a lot of Mexicans working in this area putting up houses and working on landscapes and I have to say that they are all hard working. I have no problem with their work ethic and for all I know most of them could be legal.

    The point is, we capture many of them each year and could capture many more if states were allowed to enforce the law. Couple that with the fact that being here illegally is a civil crime and there are problems. We should have aggressive campaigns that send the illegal ones home when we catch them and we should not make millions legal with the stroke of a pen.

    There are many ways to stop the problem and some of it deals with demand, as you pointed out about employers (like Pelosi and Feinstein) so employers should be given a method to determine status and if they do not or ignore it they pay a huge fine for each worker that is illegal.

    I also believe that states have rights and should be able to determine if ILLEGALS are allowed there. The feds can talk about the country all they want but each state can decide what to do with illegals and should be allowed to without federal interference.

    And yes, they cost a lot of money. There are hospitals closing all over (especially in California) and those in danger (Maryland in the DC suburbs) because of all the immigrants who seek care and do not pay.

    Congress has already ruled they are eligible to receive Social Security (another reason it should be privatized) and they will apply for food stamps, welfare and Medicaid. It is costing us a fortune now and will increase with this bill.

    Couple this with the fact that they send billions back to Mexico and do not spend it here and the economy takes a double hit.

    I knew you were not insinuating I blocked the comment. I did not mean to give that impression…

  • zingzing

    “Well I have to agree that if the government can find a way to make them pay taxes they will but most will be under the poverty level and pay little if any.”

    have you read the proposed law? go do that. the (proposed) poverty line is 50% higher for immigrants. unless i’m just dreaming.

    “We should have aggressive campaigns that send the illegal ones home when we catch them and we should not make millions legal with the stroke of a pen.”

    again, go read the law. if you are referring to the $5,000 dollar check they have to write… okay.

    “I also believe that states have rights and should be able to determine if ILLEGALS are allowed there.”

    oh my god. no. what would you have? states taking it upon themselves to “deport” illegals across state lines, families split up, states squabbling, different laws in different states making it impossible to come to a national concensus on the problem… you’d have chaos. ignorant, ignorant idea.

    “There are hospitals closing all over.”

    that’s true even in areas without large immigrant populations. americans as a whole can’t afford insurance. that ain’t just a problem brought on by illegal aliens, it’s the health insurance business.

    “Couple this with the fact that they send billions back to Mexico and do not spend it here and the economy takes a double hit.”

    wait, wait… so less than one twentieth of the population… that we don’t even want… sends money back home, making it a better place… maybe some place they are returning to… so they won’t have to stay here forever… fine by me!

    “Congress has already ruled they are eligible to receive Social Security”

    you know as well as i do that that is a shitty law with major holes in it. it needs to be plugged up. and don’t try and say that illegal aliens can get ahold of social security. the problem is that the law makes no provision against immgrants who become citizens claiming ss benefits from the time when they were illegal immigrants. ugh. and again, this isn’t the only problem with social security. it’s just making an already fucked-up-to-death system worse.

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    Sorry but a state should be able to decide if an illegal can rent or buy a house. If a state can make itself a sanctuary then a state can deny things to illegals. They would not need to send them to other states. They make a law that if you are ILLEGAL and try to do business you will either go to jail or be deported. The idea of jail time or deportation seems to work if it is enforced.

    Health care is expensive for a number of reasons. There are the illegals, there are the lawsuits. About 19 of every 20 dollars spent on health care is spent for litigation. Also, the government mandates what a plan has to offer. It is ridiculous for a person who will never get an abortion to pay for abortion services in a policy (like women who can not have kids). It is ridiculous for people who do not use aroma therapy to have to pay for it because that has to be offered in the package for a particular state.

    I am in the health care profession and see alll kinds of abuses and many come from the people who supposedly can not afford it. I can’t afford $90 a month for my pills. Quit that 2 pack a day habit and you could. Young people who do not opt in for insurance offered by an employer because it takes money from their pay. Can imagine they are barely getting by with a cell phone, nice car, great clothes, cable, computer, and big screen TV. I have seen the abuses of the health care system and most of it involves the people themselves and government interference.

    Social Security should be privatized so my money goes to me and my heirs.

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    BTW, yes I have read a lot of it. If you believe that the provisions for a fine and poverty line as well as many other items will stay there you are dreaming. Once they get it in they will start rescinding things and screw America real good.

  • zingzing

    i can agree with most of 16 and 17. (other than the whole state thing, which will just add to the chaos if implemented.)

    immigration is a tough thing. always has been. always will be. nothing’s changed for the past 150 years except for the nationalities and skin colors. it won’t change overnight.

    deportation is not the answer. if we want an answer, we’ll have to work for it. taking the hardline, as you seemingly want to do, will just prolong the problem.

  • jamal

    Michael Jackson has more class then you speak of. Michael you the greatest. dem fools know no shit. We luves you Michael.

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    It has not been a problem for 150 years because we upheld our immigration laws. People came here legally. Immigration is not a tough thing if immigrants follow the law.

  • zingzing

    so immigrants were never a problem in the late 19th and early 20th century? the was never any civil strife?

    *cocks eyebrow*

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    Immigrants or illegals sneaking in?

    Immigrants who came here legally caused problems but our country was much better at deporting those we found here illegally. We also refused them entry if they did not have shots or were sick.

    I would hate to see the outcry if one of those illegals sneaks in here with XMR TB like the guy on the plane. There might be millions of infections. If you don’t control who comes in you can’t control what they bring with them.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    There were no immigration laws before the 1920s, and when they were enacted then, they were aimed at eastern Europeans, because we were afraid we would be overrun by refugees from the chaos in Europe after WW I.

    Before the 1920s, and particularly in the 19th century, when my Irish ancestors came over, you were let in if you simply made it here and were “healthy” (determined by a very cursory exam). That’s it. No quotas. No proving financial responsibility, education (most immigrants then were ignorant and illiterate penniless European peasants). Nothing. Show up, and you were in. Millions came that way.

    I agree with BD. The most urgent priority in the whole mess is securing (really securing) the border.

    Once the border is secure, a realistic guest worker program, that allows them to stay for several years should be set up. When they get work, register to pay taxes, and SS, they get accepted into the program.

    Deportation probably could be done, but would be expensive, difficult, and, in the end, counterproductive, since these folks could contribute significantly to our society as guest workers.

    I do not think they should ever be eligible for citizenship (as BD said upthread, most don’t want it anyway); granting them citizenship sends the wrong message to all the rest of the world.

    The bottom line is they are coming for the work; let’s regulate the eligibility for work and let them.

    Just for the record: citizenship is not and never has been a requirement for paying into and later receiving benefits from SS.

    I have a Canadian friend who has been a Green card resident for more than thirty years. He worked, paid taxes and SS, and now he’s retired and draws SS. He was never required to return to Canada to renew (but does anyway, frequently), and I don’t think that should be a requirement for becoming a guest worker; it’s a stupid rule that serves no purpose.

    Also for the record: (and BD, as a medical worker, you probably know this) hospitals that treat indigent patients that do not (or cannot) pay are reimbursed for much of that expense by the Fed and state governments, that’s not why hospitals are closing all over the country.

    They’re closing because the supply of hospital beds, thanks to overbuilding by private hospital operators such as HCA and Tenet, is much greater than the demand, and the law of supply and demand has caught up with them.

    As an example, HCA’s global occupancy rate in 2006 was only 52.5%, according to Bloomberg.

    My two cents worth.

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    Clavos,
    Agree with a lot of what you said. However, the government does not reimburse for much of any indigent expenses. They pay some of it but many hospitals write off millions upon millions in unpaid bills. We have a fee added to our car registration to help Shock Trauma.

    If we secure the border and punish the people some way, make them go home and apply and have some draconian measures for those we catch sneaking in, we will have a start. Like I said, they work hard but so did many people who are in jail.

    Paris Hilton will be in jail for minor stuff and she pays a lot in taxes and is a citizen (though I think she got what she deserved I now believe maybe she needs amnesty).

    As for hospital beds, all I can say is we never have very many open beds here and hospitals are always overcrowded. Hospitals can not continue to provide their most expensive care (ER) for non emergent people who do not pay. BTW, the law of supply and demand says that if there are more beds than patients the beds will be cheaper. Fewer beds than patients and they will be more expensive…

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    “BTW, the law of supply and demand says that if there are more beds than patients the beds will be cheaper. Fewer beds than patients and they will be more expensive…”

    Or, in order not to cheapen the product (which is fairly price inelastic, due to the enormous capital investment, BTW) what you do is reduce the supply, i.e., close hospitals.

    I realize that there ARE specific areas where there is not a surplus of beds, which is why I cited HCA’s nationwide (I called it “global” above) corporate occupancy rate.

    On a national basis, there is a glut of hospital beds.

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    I don’t know how things are all over the country but in this state the government dictates the number of beds a hospital can have. There were periods, years ago, when we did not have a high patient census so they would close down a floor and send staff home.

    That does not make money but it is only usually temporary. I can not remember a time in the last 4 or 5 years that the local hospitals have closed floors.

    There are of course, many other things but the ER is the biggest money maker. The floors consume a lot of money. The hospitals used to make money for the room charge and have patients there for several days to a week but now a large amount of surgery is out patient so the beds go unused.

  • STM

    Are Australians allowed to go to the US as guest workers, overstay their visas and then receive amnesty? If so, I can organise a very large group. Most have nearly finished their sentences. We have suggested sending all our recalcitrants back to the UK, but for some reason they aren’t interested. Double standards or what? It could be good for the US, as they wouldn’t take any jobs. I would recommend however that you hang on to your wallets.

  • Dr Dreadful

    STM wrote: We have suggested sending all our recalcitrants back to the UK, but for some reason they aren’t interested.

    You lie! Your recalcitrants are already over there and populating Earl’s Court in vast numbers.

  • bliffle

    Illegal immigration will never be solved in Washington. It must be solved in Mexico City, D.F.

  • STM

    DD: “You lie! Your recalcitrants are already over there and populating Earl’s Court in vast numbers”.

    Payback time, you pommy bastards!

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com Richard Brodie

    I’m opposed to both illegal AND any more legal immigration, with the exception of spouses from other countries whom American citizens may choose to marry.

    This country is full. It is OVER full. The right population was about 150 million. We could have a decent uncrowded country at that level, with no overly congested roads, no rapidly disappearing countryside, no bulging, crime ridden inner cities, less pollution, enough water and other rapidly disappearing natural resources to go around, etc.

    We need to stop thinking that we have to catch up with China’s population in order to maintain our position as the world’s pre-eminent country. Too many people is a liability, not an asset. China is already choking itself to death with the pollution it is generating in a futile attempt to bring its billion people up to a first world standard of living.

    The American population curve was leveling off, and it is insanity to bring in tens of millions of unskilled immigrants who will breed another 300 million by the end of this century, thereby turning this country into something that no one with a posterity to worry about would want to see them have to inherit.

  • http://www.robot-of-the-week.com Christopher Rose

    Richard, I’m gobsmacked to see you opining that the USA is full. Europe has almost double the population in about half the land area – and there is a lot of empty space here. The USA is nigh on a ghost town!

  • Dr Dreadful

    Chris, Mr Brodie does have a point, even if his solution is contestable. While there are vast tracts of unoccupied land in the US, a lot of it – for example the southwestern desert, the southern swamps, the high Rockies or the Alaskan tundra – isn’t of much use to humans.

    And there really isn’t that much empty space in Europe. You can’t drive for hours on end without seeing another car, the way you can on some North American highways. Pretty much all the European land (outside national parks) that isn’t actually vertical is either populated or cultivated. I could set you down almost anywhere on the continent and you would immediately be able to spot the mark of human activity.

  • http://www.robot-of-the-week.com Christopher Rose

    Naah, try Wales, Scotland, half of France, scads of Germany, most of Spain, that’s just what I know of. Then try say the biggest European country, Ukraine, which has a tiny population. It’s mostly northern Europe, excluding Scandinavia, that’s crowded.

    Driving in Spain is a joy. Lots of motorways little traffic, no speed cameras. Sometimes it’s like having your own private racetrack. Love it!

  • Dr Dreadful

    Wales, Scotland, half of France, scads of Germany, most of Spain

    Like I said – anywhere that isn’t vertical.

    Even so, Wales and Scotland aren’t wildernesses, albeit they consist largely of treeless, turfy mountain ranges. But the mountains aren’t naturally bleak: they were originally covered by thick forest, which was cleared to make way for the pastoral farming which now dominates the landscape with criss-crossing stone walls and herds of sheep and cattle.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com Richard Brodie

    Mr Brodie does have a point, even if his solution is contestable

    If my solution, namely to stop and even reverse population growth, is not the way we should go, then my question is, will there EVER be a population level at which that does become the correct course? A billion? Ten billion? A hundred billion? A trillion? Is there no limit to how many people 3 million square miles of this planet’s surface can support?

    I have read that with the exception of aluminum, the amount of minerals left in that portion of the earth’s crust accessible to mining, is only enough to supply us with 50 more years worth at the current levels of consumption. According to projections of the U.S. Geological Survey silver, a metal which is vital to modern industrial production, is predicted to run out in only 26 more years.

    It is clear to me that a major socio/cultural paradigm shift is going to be necessary, away from the notion that “growth” is necessary for “progress”, defined as the financial and industrial expansion that goes along with the demand increase associated with ever larger populations. Indeed the valuing of growth for its own sake will at some point have to be replaced by a contentment with, an appreciation for, and the maintenance of, what we already have.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Richard proposes,

    “If my solution, namely to stop and even reverse population growth…”

    Wow, that’s a GREAT idea! Get rid of about half the people in America and pare it back to only 150 million and we ALL can have our forty acres and a mule. Plus, think of all the genetic engineering we can do in the process!

    Let’s see, we’ll start with the mud people, of course. Hmmm:

    60 million blacks – only 90 million to go!

    About 30 miilion Latinos, legal and illegal:

    50 million Jews – only ten left!

    10 million Asians and assorted lesser groups…

    That’s it! 150 million! That was easy!

    Eugenics, here we come again!

    Of the 150 million left, an awful lot are morons, autistic, cripples, and other subhuman drags on society; but we can always have Kevorkian help us get rid of them; he just got out of jail today.

    And then we bring back eugenics; start by gene mapping everyone who’s left, and start identifying who’ll be allowed to breed. Send them out to breeding farms and we’re on the road to the perfect culture of perfect, carefully selected people with lots of room for everyone!

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    Just get rid of liberals and that will pare it down nicely…

    Actually, there is enough room in the state of Texas for every person in America to fit in comfortably.

    Hell, Half of Mexico is in there now.

    (Assuming 300,000,000 as the population each person would have just over a half an acre. Have families living together and the size of each family’s property would increase)

  • Dr Dreadful

    A billion? Ten billion? A hundred billion? A trillion? Is there no limit to how many people 3 million square miles of this planet’s surface can support?

    Of course there is a limit. The planet will let us know in due course what it is, even if we persist in not listening to it. If we have any sense, though, a fair portion of us will have upped sticks for the Moon, Mars and beyond well before that happens.

    The problem comes when you start decreeing who gets to live where based on some arbitrary criterion such as the amount of pigmentation one has in one’s skin or along the lines of ‘my deity can beat up your deity’.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    The planet will let us know in due course what it is

    I believe I pointed out just how this planet is letting us know quite clearly that we are already way overpopulated.

    Wisdom would dictate that we stop the overpopulation long before the absolute breaking point is reached. At the current rate of growth critical resource exhaustion will occur around the middle of this century at a time when the world’s population will be approaching ten billion. Famines, plagues, and wars will rage all across the world, causing misery on a scale that has never before been seen in human history.

    The choice America now faces is to follow a course of population control that will allow it to escape these catastophes, or a course of population explosion which will guarantee that we will participate in them. Unfortunately for this country the one Kennedy who deserved to be assassinated wasn’t.

  • http://wwwrichardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    The problem comes when you start decreeing who gets to live where based on some arbitrary criterion such as the amount of pigmentation one has in one’s skin

    No authorities have to “decree” anything. All you have to do is to take a look at how LosAngeles has naturally segregated itself into four different cities – one for blacks, one for browns, one for whites, and one for yellows.

    “The problem comes” when you start decreeing that people that different races have to be jammed together and forced to integrate. The reality of people’s natural desire to live among their own kind will always overwhelm the mischievous meddling of misguided multiculturalists.

    Unfortunately the resulting natural racial fault lines set the stage for civil warfare, the battlefields of which begin in the political arena and end in the streets.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Richard, LA has a large population of new immigrants. It’s natural for new arrivals in a place to want to live around people with the same origins as themselves. It gives them a comfort zone to help them adjust to their new surroundings and overcome culture shock. As time and generations pass, this ‘security zone’ breaks down as people assimilate to their new country. Yes, some people do integrate better than others, but in most cases mixing inevitably occurs.

    As a case in point, my wife’s family is mixed Nicaraguan, Puerto Rican, Swiss-German, Spanish and French, and that’s only going back three generations. Not much cultural isolation there, I feel.

    I don’t know where you’re at, but in the medium-sized American city where I work in Section 8 housing, we have a good mix of people of Hispanic, African, European, Asian and other origins (race is a cultural construct and really means nothing). They live all over the city and are not “ghettoized” into distinct neighborhoods.

    I’m sorry to tell you that although there is a gang problem (the major gangs are multi-ethnic, BTW), there is a conspicuous absence of civil war in the city.

    I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone with yellow skin that wasn’t hospitalized.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Doc sez,

    “They live all over the city and are not “ghettoized” into distinct neighborhoods.”

    In 2000, I worked for the Census Bureau as a crew chief and trainer. During that time, my crew censused (?) the area of South Pointe, in South Beach.

    I was much amused to find that there were two apartment towers which were waterfront and overlooked the Miami Beach Marina, which were, I learned, Section 8 housing. The location is primo land, and the towers have been there since back when South Beach was God’s Waiting Room, and basically an elderly ghetto of low priced land, full of expiring New Yorkers.

    They’re still Section 8, and the land is easily worth tens of millions by now.

    I’ve often wondered why the government doesn’t sell that land, because with what they would surely realize from such a sale, they could build ten similar towers on less prestigious land at virtually no cost to the taxpayers; a real win-win situation.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Clav, if those apartment blocks are Section 8 they aren’t the government’s to sell. Section 8 housing is privately owned, and I guess the landlords of those particular blocks have their reasons for not selling up… most likely because it’s a nice little earner rather than out of the kindness of their hearts.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Doc,

    You’re right, I knew that, but had forgotten. Interestingly, one of my census coworkers was a Section 8 landlord; I should have remembered that…

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com Richard Brodie

    It gives them a comfort zone to help them adjust to their new surroundings and overcome culture shock.

    In LA the Mexicans have no desire to “adjust”. Alcalde Villagiarosa once remarked “Just look around. This is a Hispanic city.” I don’t think they anticipate having to “overcome culture shock.” Have we forgotten already how millions of non-English speakers took to the streets waving Mexican flags and calling for European Americans to go back where they came from and leave the North American continent to La “Bronze” Raza?

    The sheer massiveness of the current hostile immigration tsunami sweeping over the nation, where suddenly half the populations of whole cities consist of semi-literate, welfare-sucking, job-stealing, neighborhood-degrading, disease-carrying aliens whose loyalties are to their country of origin, is a sure recipe for eventual civil war. The end result of this national suicide will be the break-up of the United States, and the peoples who built the country will be lucky if they are left with half of it.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Brodie snarls:

    “The sheer massiveness of the current hostile immigration tsunami sweeping over the nation, where suddenly half the populations of whole cities consist of semi-literate, welfare-sucking, job-stealing, neighborhood-degrading, disease-carrying aliens whose loyalties are to their country of origin, is a sure recipe for eventual civil war. The end result of this national suicide will be the break-up of the United States, and the peoples who built the country will be lucky if they are left with half of it.”

    If your attitudes are representative of what the United States has become, then it deserves to be broken up, because it no longer even remotely resembles what the Founding Fathers established.

    Fortunately, your sick, lying racist ideas are very much in the minority; the vast majority of your countrymen repudiate your kind of thinking, Brodie.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Have we forgotten already how millions of non-English speakers took to the streets waving Mexican flags and calling for European Americans to go back where they came from

    Millions, Mr Brodie? Millions?

    Come on…

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Not to mention that the assumption that most (or all) of them were “non-English speakers” is truly bizarre, since the vast majority of the marchers were legal residents and citizens, not illegals

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com Richard Brodie

    If your attitudes are representative of what the United States has become, it deserves to be broken up, because it no longer even remotely resembles what the Founding Fathers established

    But the racist ideas of La Raza must be perfectly fine with you, since you don’t dare address THAT issue. Well, you’re right in step with the Feds. Bronze supremacy is now officially approved government racism.

    The motto of La Raza (The Race) is “For those inside the race, everything. For those outside the race, nothing.” In other words, “For Browns everything, for Whites nothing.”

    And don’t try and tell me this is just an extremist fringe group. They were consulted by, and helped write Kennedy’s Amnesty Bill. They are the largest recipient of donations from the owners of Wal Mart, who know what will endear 90% of their employees to them.

    Actually the founding fathers rejoiced in the felicitous circumstance of having a nation unified by virtue of consisting of persons from the same branch of the same race, speaking the same language, and having the same political and cultural heritage.

    Throughout history nations have been defined as racially homogeneous groupings of people. Such a millenia long manifestation of human nature is not going to be changed ever, let alone overnight, by the pitifully futile re-education attempts of unrealistic, arrogant multiculturalist race-deniers .

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com Richard Brodie

    Brodie snarls

    You want some examples of snarling? Here’s what was on signs carried in the two million man Los Angeles march:

    Continente Robado (Stolen Continent)

    We are Indigenous – the Only Owners of this Continent

    This is Stolen Land

    All Europeans are Illegal

    All this snarled by Aztec-Spaniards (half Europeans!) who never occupied any of the territory of the Apache, Comanche, Cherokee, Ute, Iroquois, Mojave, Seminole, and other tribes indigenous to the territory of the United States.

    They invent this fictional “homeland” AZTecLANd and proceed to claim the entire Southwest. It’s as if the Navajos were make up a myth that northern Mexico use to be NAVLAN, and proceeded to mass migrate there and demand that all the halfbreed Aztec/Mayan Europeans move back to Europe!

  • Dr Dreadful

    Not every one of those two million (although actually it was probably something less than half that number) carried such signs. The demonstration was for the most part peaceful and respectful.

    You’ve no basis for assuming the sentiments you quote are representative of Hispanic opinion as a whole; any more than your impotent rhetoric is representative of the opinions of white men.

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    This white man says that it does not matter what color their skin is, breaking the law is breaking the law. It just so happens that most of the people involved are brown skinned and this gives people some reason to excuse illegal behavior. Fact is, I would be just as angry and anti illegal if the people were flooding in from Canada.

    But they are not because the Canadians have a fairly good standard of living and do not keep their people in abject poverty. The Mexican government is only too happy to have a poor populace that comes to America and earns wages to send home. If their government would clean up its act there would be more opportunity there and they would not be breaking the law to get here.

    In any event, I don’t give a rodent’s derriere what color they are, they are law breakers.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com Richard Brodie

    Not every one of those two million (although actually it was probably something less than half that number) carried such signs.

    OK, let’s say the total was one million instead of two. If half carried such signs, that’s half a million. It is naive to think that the other half were not in total solidarity with the sign carriers. I didn’t see anybody carrying signs saying “Don’t pay attention to these Aztlan extremists”, did you? Of course not. The whole point of the march was to trumpet the notion that the North American continent belongs to the aboriginal bronze folks, that the descendants of the European settlers have no right to be here, and that the former fully intend to take from the latter what they regard as rightfully theirs.

    The demonstration was for the most part peaceful and respectful.

    Respectful? “This is our continent and Europeans can get out” (those Europeans whose taxes pay for their welfare and health care and the education of their children.) You have a strange notion of what constitutes respectfulness.

    Peaceful? They don’t have to be violent. Rather than force of arms they are using outpopulation, which will enable them to seize control of the government and vote in a new Constitution (since little is left of the one we have anyway) compatible with their doctrine.

    You’ve no basis for assuming the sentiments you quote are representative of Hispanic opinion as a whole; any more than your impotent rhetoric is representative of the opinions of white men.

    And what about the nine million Hispanics in Los Angeles who didn’t join the march? Is it reasonable to assume that they stayed away because they were unsympathetic to the message of the sign carriers? There are a million practical reasons why they might have been unable to attend, but it is unlikely that more than a minuscule percentage would condemn those of their paisanos who were there.

    And I think you’re dead wrong about “the opinions of white men.” Even those who are not openly and honestly racialist, like I am, are highly resentful of seeing their country being given away to the Aztec Indian tribe – as are the blacks who have already been, and will continue to be, the one’s suffering the most from this totally insane national suicide.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Again you’re making up ‘facts’ to support your prejudices. The proportion of the marchers carrying such signs was not half or anything like.

    ‘Europeans go home’ was not the purpose of the march. It was to protest the plight of illegals. You are welcome not to sympathize, but don’t lie about it.

    You’re the one who’s dead wrong. You take your own opinions and attribute them to everyone with the same pigmentation and dangly bits as you. Then you take the behavior and attitude of a few Latinos and attribute them to a whole population.

    At least you’re honest about your racism (all right, ‘racialism’ if you prefer), unlike Big Dog and some other commenters who claim they would be just as outraged if it was white Canadians crossing the borders. Somehow I doubt that.

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    Dr. Dreadful, are you calling me a liar? Worse yet, are you calling me a racist? Now who is making up ‘facts’ to support a position? I don’t need to lie to you, a law breaker is a lawbreaker regardless of color. I suppose in your world the overwhelming majority of people (of all colors mind you) who oppose this, are racists.

    You are the true racist, you excuse illegal behavior because the people are brown. I say they are lawbreakers, and by the way there is an irrelevant statistic; they are brown.

    I would be just as angry if it were white Canadians. And in case you missed it, this bill is not the Mexican brown skin people immigration bill, it affects everyone. It is just that most of the lawbreakers happen to be brown skinned Mexicans but any light skinned people caught here would also fall under the bill.

    The race card is a wonderful gadget but I do not play that game so move on.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Mr Dog, I’m not excusing criminal behavior. I’m objecting to those like Mr Brodie who take the criminality of a few and project it onto an entire people.

    I do think most people (including myself) are to some extent racist even if they don’t recognize it in themselves. That’s just natural paranoia which every human is suspectible to. That’s why I’m not convinced by the ‘Canadians’ argument. I suspect that if it came to it, it would be harder to get so worked up about someone who looks and speaks (approximately) like you.

    However, if that honestly doesn’t describe you then I withdraw my slander and apologize.

  • http://www.onebigdog.net Big Dog

    I appreciate your candor and while I think Mr. Brodie is a bit extreme, he is entitled to his opinion.

    I have no trouble with color, I have trouble with criminals. I was just as happy when Congressman Cunningham was sent to jail as I will be when Congressman Jefferson is.

    I have certain prejudices like everyone (it does mean pre judge) but I am fair regardless of color and believe in the benefit of the doubt. But criminal activity is criminal activity and should not be rewarded.

  • http://wwwrichardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    Big Dog correctly says of Dr. Dreadful:

    You are the true racist

    As are all the marching Mexicans, many of whom only have one word in their English vocabulary, “racist”, which they find serviceable for smearing any white person (or black, or even legal Mexican) who wants to see the immigration laws of this country upheld.

    Why do Mexicans want to come and live in America? Because they take a look at the kind of a first class free nation that only white people have been able to produce, and they want to get away from the corrupt little craphole of a country that is all they’ve been able to manage. But then as their numbers grow they start imagining that they could take it over, without reflecting for a moment on the fact that all they would be able to do, should they be successful in their dream of dispossessing the evil Europeans, is to turn ALL of North America into one big Mexico from which there would be no place to escape.

    And these are the idiots that our idiot Legislators want to facilitate in their blood-sucking destructive and ultimately self-destructive plot.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Holy snarling xenophobes, Batman!

  • STM

    Ah, of course Brodie conveniently forgets one thing … it’s got nothing to do with race. The US and the other anglo countries (mine included) have something else, all inherited from the British even if the forms are slightly different: rule of law dating back many, many centuries, and grand institutions of genuine representative government.

    Now, as for Brodie’s racist argument: given that these countries are all populated by people of different races, what do places like Singapore, Malaysia, Australia, Canada, the US, New Zealand, Ireland, most of the West Indies, even the new South Africa, even India and to a lesser extent Pakistan, have in common?

    A: they have all inherited those British institutions of law and governance that (in most cases) guarantee our personal freedoms, all based upon – even in America, and including its Constitution – English common law.

    A case in point: compare Singapore and neighbouring Malaysia, two countries with the highest standards of living in Asia, and very little poverty, to the predicament of Indonesia.

    The Malays and Indonesians speak the same language, are one people basically, are muslim nations, but one was settled by the British and the other by the Dutch.

    One functions nicely and is a great place to live (Malaysia), the other is always in chaos, is hugely corrupt and is full of poverty and unrest (Indo). And Singapore could be an American or Australian city at first glance. This has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with rule of law and respect for it – and the sooner people like Brodie work that out, the better we’ll be for that understanding.

    The truth is, Mexico could migrate en masse to the US, and through its grand instutions of law and governance, America would continue to function in the same way it always has.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Stan The Man says,

    “The truth is, Mexico could migrate en masse to the US, and through its grand instutions of law and governance, America would continue to function in the same way it always has.”

    Quoted for Truth.

    You and I both have more respect for, and confidence in, America’s institutions and strength of character than Brodie does, mate.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Mr Brodie’s holocaustic scenarios remind me of Pte. Fraser in Dad’s Army:

    “We’re all doomed… DOOOOOMED!”

    Stan, I suspect that since you admit to having lived in the Land of Misery at some point in your shady past, this will mean more to you than to Clav. Maybe you can explain the reference better than I could!

  • STM

    G’day Clav. Mate, I don’t see America as having been a country for just 200 or so years. Much like I do in regards to Australia (and which is why I fart around geeing you up about the Union Jack in the corner of our flag – and Hawaii’s :), I see it simply as a continuation of something that began evolving more than 1000 years ago.

    America’s political system or its personal freedoms and rights aren’t unique – it’s just one branch of that long evolution … and the slightly differing paths these different countries of ours have taken have led in to the end to much the same place.

    The Asian tigers I mention above – both former British colonies – are classic examples of this. And let’s not forget Australia, a drought-stricken country at the end of the Earth, with one of the world’s strongest economies. Or my NZ neighbours, a classic example of two cultures mixing and creating a wonderful society. Or the new South Africa – what they’ve achieved as a multiracial/multicultural democracy in the past 15 or so years, most countries couldn’t have achieved in 1000. Once, again, it’s been about rule of law.

    Brodie’s arguments are about race. His views are misguided, and belong in the dustbin of history along with nazism and stalinism.

    Brodie needs to understand the real reason why his country is what it is.

  • STM

    Shady past is right, Doc. My father served in the British Army. Between moving around and living in places like Iraq as a kid, I lived in England too as a boy, and went to school there for some years. You know where I’m coming from here: while I love to hate the English, it’s a lot different to actually hating them. Same goes for the Yanks.

    Having seen first-hand what wonderful places they are, I am a reluctant fan. We should all always remember how lucky we are. And yes, I have seen Dad’s Army and I do remember the pessimistic Pte Fraser. PS, if I have the right person, does Brodie look a bit latino to you?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    I like your term for all the countries that share the Brit legacy: the Anglosphere.

    But let’s not talk about it too much in front of Doc; he’ll be insufferable for at least a week if we do…

    Tell me aboot (Oh, wait, that’s a Canadian accent!) about Dad’s Army.

  • Dr Dreadful

    if I have the right person, does Brodie look a bit latino to you?

    If it’s the Richard Brodie who looks like an escapee from the 1956 Stepford High School yearbook, then, er, no.

  • STM

    Dad’s Army: a TV show about a bumbling regiment of the British Home Guard during WWII. You can imagine some of the ridiculous scripts. Fun, though, all the same.

    A bit like Gomer Pyle (in colour) with monocles; incompetent jumped up bank clerks becoming officers, cockney barrow-boy spivs, mummy’s boys, valiant bayonet-favouring WWI veterans with poor hearing and crook knees and the dour, pessimistic Scot, Pte Fraser … and ill-fitting uniforms.

    The general premise was: if Adolf Hitler wants to come here, look what he’ll get. The German Army doubtless would have been incapacitated by fits of laughter.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Sounds like fun.

    Where are you mates seeing these pictures?
    Ref: Doc’s #67

  • Dr Dreadful

    Clavvers: With Selwyn we just typed his name into Google Images, since all that’s on his blog is a collection of ugly philosophers. Richard Brodie is a fairly common name and that didn’t work so well, so I clicked on his URL which takes you to his personal website. (Not sure what Stan did or where he found the “Latino Richard” picture.) There’s what looks like a high school yearbook photo on there. You know the kind of thing: no matter what decade the yearbook is from, the photographer somehow contrives to make the entire class look like refugees from Happy Days.

    Have fun!

  • Dr Dreadful

    valiant bayonet-favouring WWI veterans

    I dunno about World War I – if I remember rightly, Cpl. Jones was so old he’d served under General Gordon at Khartoum.

  • STM

    I think you’re right, by George. Khartoum and the Boer War it was. But WWI too, if I remember rightly. Didn’t he have a chest full of medals?? What I can remember is that he was desperate to “get one up” a German (a bayonet, that is). If he could catch him …

    DD, I have written at length on the great cockney shows like Minder, Hazell and The Sweeney. What are your thoughts here?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Stan,

    Thanks for the tip.

    Check this out.

  • Dr Dreadful

    DD, I have written at length on the great cockney shows like Minder, Hazell and The Sweeney. What are your thoughts here?

    My family didn’t own a TV until 1984, so I missed out on Hazell and only ever caught a few re-runs of The Sweeney.

    Minder was great though. I can’t ever recall a poor episode, at least not with the original duo of George Cole and Dennis Waterman. So much of that show found its way into the general vernacular: to this day, a bloke who’s perceived to be somewhat unethical in his business methods is referred to as an ‘Arthur Daley’ type.

    Funny thing is, George Cole is (was? I don’t know if he’s still alive) such a gentlemanly and well-spoken chap in real life – nothing like his on-screen persona.

  • STM

    Clav, Selwyn Duke loves to shoot himself in the foot. The Qantas policy – Qantas, as the nation’s flag carrier, being partially government owned – is regulated federally by Canberra, which as we know is currently the HQ of one of the most right-wing governments of any civilised western nation (they call themselves The Liberal Party, but hey, who’s quibbling), and consider themselves best mates of George W. Bush and the third proper partner in his so-called coalition of the willing.

    Most people of whatever political persuasion don’t have a problem with the Qantas policy. That’s possibly because far from being namby-pamby liberals, Australians are highly vigilant in regard to terrorism (after Bali) and not afraid to open their mouths to shout down foolish notions of political correctness. But not letting children sit alone with men they don’t know is just common sense. (It’s a protection for the men, too, against the possibility of false allegation.)

    As usual, Selwyn’s story is a non-story that has its basis in hot air and extreme-right flatulence.